 Let's call the May 23rd architecture of view board meeting to order Steve if you could read the role please sure Joe Clark here Dick Lindy and Pam Lange and said she was not going to be here and Marcus is no longer with us right and we have a quorum. So let's proceed if we I'll stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which is sands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Any potential conflicts of interest for today's meeting? Bob is so signifying And showed up to make sure we had a quorum. So thank you for that item for approval of minutes from the May 9th meeting We have a motion and a second any further discussion Hearing none all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed Minutes are approved. Thank you, which brings us to our one item of business for today the Change in design proposed for construction at the Riverfront condominiums along South the South Pier district If your team can come to the podium and just give us a brief description But first I'm going to ask Steve just to give us a quick synopsis of where we are and which guidelines do and don't apply Oh, jeez. I just closed this down. Perfect. So so Yeah, many are you familiar with the site? We're on the South Pier district They're Watson had Previously developed the initial South Pier Riverfront condo So basically you have the rice coal condominiums then the first phase of this project I think it was about maybe fall of last year that we had proved this particular phase and I'll let the app can speak to in terms of the Challenges they had and the reason why you have the redesign before you today Obviously, this is in the South Pier and there are certain guidelines This is kind of in an area that was considered like the office area because it was formally the rice coal everything up to about the fish Shani area and then the shannies have very specific regulations the interior has pretty specific regulations but this section didn't have a lot in terms of Specifics like the others do because it was looked at as a parking lot and the rice coal facility so What we're trying to do is be consistent in terms of what we've previously done what's been done By the app can as well as the rice coal office condominium building And so we're just trying to be consistent with that and that's where we're at and the app can has brought New drawings to be reviewed by the board today and with that I guess Thank You Steve if we can thank you Steve So maybe I'll start with a little bit about where we were and where we are now Where we were and what we originally talked about when we came before your board before Was that we're gonna be doing two buildings which we're gonna be very similar in design They're gonna be the same height roughly the same exterior just a smaller footprint because of the lot size And we were gonna end up with about 12 to 15 units on this lot What happened was is that we took time to be able to go through that process We had designs all written up and ready to go had them even stayed approved And then we came into the bid process Everybody knows what happened with COVID and what we found is that we were 18 months out before we could even get elevators We're 18 months out before we get span creed and our prices had like tripled and quadrupled on some of the Materials not to mention the contractors themselves. We couldn't source them to even build it So it became not feasible to build the building. I would have lost money on every unit we would have built So we couldn't do it so we scrapped the plan completely went back to the drawing board with the abacus ladies and gents and Came up with a different townhouse style Somewhat might mirrored off of what they did at the Kingsbury Brewery Which was a beautiful design that I liked when I drove past So we ended up using almost the same footprint. We're a slightly smaller We ended up going with six units instead of like the 12 units But our price point has gone up considerably because of the building cost and the square footage that we're getting with these now So as far as what we planned on doing with this lot, which would have been about I'm going from memory, but I think it was about four and a half million dollars four point six somewhere in that neighborhood With the building that we were proposing now We're going to be right about that three million dollar mark from the get-go. I think they'll go up But we'll be somewhere in that neighborhood The other things that we took in consideration is that when we came before The board before they said that this is kind of a transitional lot that we're coming from the rice coal company building Which is a four-story building down to the fish shanty, which is a single story There's some across the street that are two two and a half stories Which Joe has the port scape and originally you'd ask could we build this building as a three-story building instead of four? Like the first building that we had built We didn't think we could do that because we were going to need the number of units in order to actually make money on it Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to do that now because we didn't do the span creed We're not doing the elevator systems. We're not doing pylons going all the way down We're saving a considerable amount of money now. I can lower the building down to a three-story building So it became actually a better design because we're going from a higher building to a little bit lower Which is what this building will be down to the fish shanty as it kind of steps back down We also try to incorporate some of the different materials. So you'll notice before you One of the drawings you can kind of almost see the taller rice coal building Stepping down as it goes down and transitions But we're also transitioning our building materials where we have the the lap siding here Which is what we're doing on this building if you remember the first building actually used a Cement board siding which was a little bit more of a flat panel type siding and then incorporated that with the rice coal building On this building we're going to be using More of the lap siding the same brickwork the same color theme We in a tried to create the same bump outs the same windows the same color windows the same Spiral staircases the same railings. So it really does look like it's a uniform Project, you know between the two buildings, but yet we're creating just a few elements from some of the other buildings that are down They're trying to be more of a transitional building we're not having a Real bad parking impact. We're actually having two car garages for everybody's unit We're actually adding another three parking stalls to the development, which we don't even need to but it's just additional parking We're pleasantly surprised at I shouldn't say surprised But we're have pleasantly happy that building one if you notice when you drive down there You don't see that front parking area filled hardly ever the rice coal company You know condos are very happy because they gained a couple spaces between our buildings Which was actually on our lot, but they're allowed to use them. So it really is a win-win right now so far I know one of the concerns that the the board had when we came before a couple years back was that we really Didn't want to have garage doors just facing the drive And and we understood that that was one of the reasons that we did the single garage door for the other building Unfortunately with this we can't do feasibly the The cement span create and create just one parking structure and then build a top of it So what we did try to do is at least set back the garages so they're not just flush They're actually set back recess. So they're hidden a little bit within the building design It's a little hard to maybe tell on this but with the garages here. There's the same color They're kind of blending into some of the glass we added glass into the garages to try to create more of just kind of a front door ish Kind of look to it. Obviously we got some landscaping between each one to try to break that up as well And again, just back setting them a little bit having said that we also went with the darker color This building has actually an aluminum garage door, which stands out a bit more So when you drive past you see it What is this? I think just kind of blends in a little bit nicer Yeah, feel free Eric Pleischman with abacus architects just to add on that a little bit The bottom kind of four panels on the garage doors are opaque So there's only glass on the top to kind of again really diminish a garage look on the front street I guess Did you guys have any questions about the design? I I think I'll also add Due to budgetary reasons. We also went with a thin brick on the kind of wanes coat that lower band because It would require a different foundation and it makes a heavier building So in order to kind of get this building built and feasible We we found another product a thin brick that Is a really good product if you you have the right backing to it? it's it's it's literally a Full brick that gets sliced up into smaller pieces and so it has the same quality and durability as kind of a regular brick But not not the cost so that was one aspect that we we kind of incorporated into this new design And Aesthetically it looks the same. I mean a real close to the same to the other building. So we're keeping a lot of the same design elements You know the cement posts that are on the back of the building the same verticals the same gutter type systems So we're really again tying the two buildings very much in a similar design Questions yes from from my standpoint. It's a pretty slick looking building. I like it. Yeah stream line Was initially not sure how it fit with the whole south pier But the fact that the guidelines don't kick in here quite the same way they do further down I'm not seeing anything that jumps out at me as a You shouldn't be doing this. I did have just a few questions. One is the the roof access You had a rail area. What's what's happening up on the roof? Sure? It's go ahead if you want to discuss it. It's just if you Steve if you could go to the Individual floor plans. I think it's the Watts and yeah that one so This we're gonna consider this a penthouse. So it's not a floor, but it's rather just access to the roof on the previous design we did have mechanical units up there, so I Guess it's how you interpret penthouse, but the idea is that it's just a landing and a patio space That Toby could come up to on his unit And under occupant load of about 20 that we could call it a penthouse not a level But rather just a penthouse So that we're staying under that Three levels there's also We on discussion with Pat Pat's last Thanks, we will need to spring clear this building and With that said there will be Like construction wise there will be less rated walls or lower rated wall system because of that so we we're that's something that's going to be kind of Revised and before we send it into the state, but I'm in discussions We're in discussions with Pat on on the sprinkler issue So that he and the fire marshal feel comfortable with how they get a ladder up to each respective patio So we're working that out. It's just kind of related to the patio That we're shown here So I just want to mention that and part of that patio choose that we know that again having owned 30 of the buildings downtown it's nice to have an actual walkway to get into a roof top It's always a pain when you just have a flat roof and you're using ladders and things like that So we didn't do it on all of them. We just did it on one happens as he had mentioned It's going to be the one that I'm going to occupy myself as I move back into Sheboygan And so I figured this gives us a nice way to get access to all of the roast if we have to get up there for whatever repairs Membranes issues things like that So are we ending up with any rooftop mechanicals or it's just that that penthouse and roof deck? No, they're they're going to be on the ground floor Steve if you could go to the site plan, please Thanks for jumping around here. Yeah, no problem. We have we have another Otherwise I can show you on this plan right here if you look right here at this one in front of you What we have right here some plantings these plantings are going to continue right along here And that's where we're going to have just a few air conditioner units on this side of the building and then on the opposite side Between the fish cleaning station and the sidewalk walkway here the same will have some plantings over here and a few Mechanicals here as well. So we'll have three on this side three in that side screened Yeah, Steve, it's you're on the right one. Oh, that's right Yeah, this is kind of a revised version of the same thing Like a zoomed in but that previous one that showed it on kind of this southwest Southwest side and then we'll have Yeah, so zoom in right zoom in right there on the left side of our first unit We had them shown there with we were going to screen that off Yeah, yeah, right there When you say screened just with we had we had landscaping we were planning on landscaping But I guess if there was a suggestion of something we could we could work that in Steve what one of the things that we had worked with previously and I don't know if anyone's familiar Well, dick you may I think you were there for a while like on seven pen on the corner of Pen and 7th Street, they had a lot of the Mechanicals that were sitting out and then they had provided like a little screening After a while that was something that was done in that circumstance not saying that's right But that might be a similar scenario to what we're talking about Seven pen use that as a reference. Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't know there there were some Mechanicals and the West side of the building which is 7th Street and one of the things that they did was just used like kind of a smaller fencing material similar color at that Basically a limited view of those so not saying that that's the right thing But that's something that the board can consider if there's any concerns. Yeah, those would actually be classified as a vision screen. Yeah Which would be easy to do either when you plant things around, you know Just the three air conditioners or we end up putting my thought was if they were going to do something like that You'd probably grab, you know One of the darker sightings like this and then you just create like a little tiny, you know, you know 4x4 post screen and just high enough to cover the air conditioners and then still do the plantings either way probably Do you have sufficient information on those Mechanicals to know sizes yet? Is that still being developed? Based on square footage of the units my guess is that we're going to be probably about a two and a half ton air conditioner The newer models in fact, I just put one in this week at one of my rental houses So I mean as far as size-wise are about this tall like this. So it's you know, what? 30 inches by 30 inches maybe total Okay, I think some sort of screening there would be good whether it's landscape or a fence type unit So I Don't have a strong preference. I just think that area We want to keep it as clean and uncluttered with mechanicals as possible. Yeah, so that seems like something that Could be reviewed with staff just to make sure that's given a thumbs up before you I don't know if the board wants to hear a little bit about building one also with the 21 units We did sell those units within a year The units I had an average price of about $285,000 I would say somewhere on there. They've had some resales since then they've gone up. I think now they're about 350 These are going to be marked at 499 But they are quite a bit bigger. We're going to be you know pushing. I think 3,000 square feet You know for them. I have one for myself, which leaves five the cell I've shown only two people so far at building one and both people have said that they'd like to Buy in building two so my guess is that we're probably going to have these gone pretty quick So I think the market is ready for something like that. Mind you building one all but I think two our homeowner occupied either as first or secondary or third homes and I think just one person really Airbnb is that everybody else is just always kind of kept it for themselves And then I I did have one design question that I'm back and forth on what I think So just curious your thought process On if we can go to the the street side elevation Steve Where to the right side you've got the unit that projects out. Yeah You've set up a vocabulary of the the orange colored accents That sort of corners and the peers between the units But as the building steps back it doesn't have that And I'm I'm looking at the the perspective view Trying to rationalize that outside corner on that facade not having that treatment sure right here Versus putting it there The other way 90 degrees The idea was on the previous design was the orange was Circulation and we kind of translated on this building as well The orange shows the translation of the stairs Circulation to the building like that. Okay So I think what you're saying though is on the front side here We've got the orange separated each unit and this one didn't have it here Yeah, and you're right I didn't notice that but it's it would be easy enough to do a strip of orange here And then on the inside just to keep that consistency all the way through and it was when I can see it going either way It's not a oh it has to have it I was curious what the rationale was for that the language you've set up and does that orange of Circulation language carry through to the big sections on each end that are orange So the same idea with is that the central corridor there? There's a single stair that goes up to get you through the building and that's aligned on every So Toby's unit is a little unique because it's kind of mirrored. So the orange kind of followed that Yeah, you take the stair right up and get to all three levels from from that door So then on the last unit we had to flip it because the orientation worked better And so then the orange ended up moving with it and that's that's why it's that way because there's no staircase Yeah, that makes sense But you know wouldn't we could actually look at it to see how would it look with orange right here and here? And maybe that would actually even though there's not a door there that might look nice I like the rationale of there's there's a reason driving the the color schemes and materials But that one I could see going either way so if that's something that you wanted to Look at differently and bring back at a staff level review I think I would probably be fine with that either way. I don't know thoughts from the rest of the board Bob if you have any thoughts even though you're abstaining you're welcome to Give your comments Yeah It's something you could look at doing Toby wants to do it Yeah, the orange This sounds if that one is probably going to be in your court Toby if you do change it if it can be just submitted again to Staff review just to make sure that yeah, we'll take a look at it Maybe send it over to you know to Steve and not Chad just to get another opinion on it The only other related question I had was at that corner condition It looks as if the orange element is projecting out to the street side, but it's flush on the other side. Is that correct or is it? projecting in both directions That was just on the just on the front end. It's projecting out a little bit and that the Transition joint between those materials. What is that? I'm sorry, so that the transition between the materials What's the detail as you go from one material to the other they're the same material So it would just be a finishing edge on both I guess that that's my question whether it's just siding and so it's just a butt joint or is there an actual Physical separation of some sort using a two by six wall Cavity and then at the bump out. It's like a two by twelve roughly. So there will be a visual shadow line and The material so change in material is changing plane But but that would only be to the street side on the end of the building. It's flush if I'm understanding right please do So So right here that that joint The other orange conditions are projecting out That one appears to be flush and they're saying this is the same material. So it's basically just a butt joint That's something to get just a little separation between numbers would be great. Yeah He's talking about this line edge right here when this approaches. Okay, this How does that connect? Sure? Okay? I see what you're asking now right here And we could is that wrapping around the corner like that and is that picture thousand words But joining into the sun so that comes around actually like this to I guess to be consistent and what we've shown we would have it come out proud of the gray and the white So that any time anytime the orange is used it's It's projecting out so we could have it kind of come around that corner and pop out I think that's what you're saying. Yeah, it's That would as it's drawn Yeah, this is a butt joint where everything else is projecting and I think what Eric saying is that this could then be projected out Same distance as well. It's just the consistency of the vocabulary. You're setting up with what are the treatments of the different materials? Yeah, you know, is there a reason to have it different there? Sure is fair enough I'm just curious for the thought process behind it. Can I show you a little sketch of what I think you're saying and so in plan If this is orange Yes, then exactly Because right now it's doing this and I think that's where you're coming from so we would have a project out to create It come around the corner and be consistent with the kind of okay. Exactly. Yeah Everyone else No problems here. All right any other questions comments or concerns Second we have a motion and a second further discussion Yes, the motion what exactly does that include dick? Is it as submitted or with the items that were discussed? And I think that it included Screening for the HVAC units at grade whether it's landscape or fencing potentially looking at the Projecting corner whether that's orange or not at the owner's discretion But if it changes to resubmit at a staff level and and the final thing was the the orange elements to all be projecting elements Does that manage everyone's understanding? if so All those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed and Bob was abstaining So we it is approved Thank you. Thank you. It's good All right, how is your time frame looking when are you planning to break ground? So it depends a little bit of it I think on the state approval of plans and whatnot ideally we're hoping that we will break ground as soon as we're able to and Then have the exterior wrapped up as no GS starts to fly so they can work over the winter time And it would be right to be move in for spring Good luck to you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. All right Any other items of discussion things people want to talk about if not our next meeting is currently scheduled for June 13th They believe yes, I think we're gonna have a meeting Okay Otherwise, I would entertain a motion to adjourn so move All in favor aye We are adjourned. Thanks everyone. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thank you Thanks, Bob