 I don't have a gavel. Oh, no. It's all right. I'll do it. I'll use this. Is it open in your box? Yeah, it must be open. We can't have a meeting without a gavel. Didn't occur to me. It's just for the gavel assembly. I don't have a gavel. Oh, I can't see. We didn't miss anything. It worked out pretty good. It worked out perfectly. Good evening. Good evening. So I will call the manager order. It's just about seven o'clock. We have a full board tonight. The first thing on the agenda are the minutes of August 21st, 2018 is a motion to approve. So moved. Zero second. Second. Page one. Page two. Page two number six. Yes. So it just worded kind of funny. I probably would have said, um, Teresa's it rich urged continued public input on the plan. It just seems like the wording is a little funny. Reed's funny. I don't know if anybody else sees it that way. Is it okay? It's okay. Made to me. Public input. Okay. I just thought it read a little funny. Public input on the plan. I thought under number five, what should be indicated that Amy Dimitra Dimitra was spoke to explain the reason for the resolution. Sure. Seven comments. I'm not sure that Sarah Mason spoke. I don't think she did. I don't think so either. I think she was not happy with the proposal at all. She was actually against speed homes. You're right. Yeah. That was the letter, right? Yes. The email. Delete that one. Set last sentence then. I think that would be. Sure. Seven comments. I'm not sure that Sarah Mason spoke and support us feed bumps or inner letter. I don't think she did. I don't think so either. I think she was not. Happy with the proposal at all. I think that would make more sense to delete that. We also on page two. Page three. And page four. One more comments then. All those in favor of approving the minutes of August 20 first 2018 say hi. Hi. Hi. They opposed. And we'll move on to public comments. Anyone in the audience who wishes to make any comment. So if you. Address yourself and please come to the table. Hi. My name's Doug Netty. I have a. Hi, sorry. As far as I'm able to find it just goes to the TV. So. Excuse me. Don't speak. To the mic. Doesn't. Doesn't be able to find it. That's all. Got it. I have a public. I have a question for the select board. I'm the property owner of a building on 291 Hurricane Lane. And I have a company. A manufacturing company is looking to relocate to this location. And there's not enough onsite parking. Hurricane Lane. I have a handout. I'd like to share with you. Is a. Is a. Town owned dead end road. The current speed limit is 25 miles an hour. The width of the road is 30 feet. And on street parking is permitted. Per the. Town. Parking bylaws. And I asked the town manager to reconfirm that with the. Staff. And I guess the staff supports on street parking. On Hurricane Lane. My question. If I can hand these out. Is this. We have a neighbor. We have a property owner. On Hurricane Lane. Who would prefer. No parking. And. That property owner. Came to the board. And. Asked you to. Over here. Yep. I got. Okay. That's the board to. The. Towns. On site. Or on. Street parking. We have a. Neighbor. We have a property owner. On Hurricane Lane. Who would prefer. No parking. On Hurricane Lane. And. That property owner. Came to the board. And. One package everyone. Came to the board. On. Street. Park. And. The ordinance. Actually would be moving from. Asks. The company's called. Flex this year. And. One of the few. Manufacturing companies left them for mine. Thank you. But they'd like to locate to this building. It's a huge investment. A huge commitment. And they don't want to move here. If they're not going to be able to. Park some of their employees on site. So. I'm looking for some guidance. If. There's not, you know, really. A strong support to continue. On site parking on Hurricane Lane. I suspect that this company will decide to go elsewhere. So the first. Page. I should I show the entire length of. Hurricane Lane again, which is a dead end building. Our dead end street. The building that. The business would locate in his 291. Hurricane Lane is circled in orange there. The second. Second picture is of the building and existing parking. We do have some permits expand parking beyond this, which will enact, but even after we expand that parking, we still don't have enough parking on site for this company. So it's most likely we would park. Some cars on street. Pretty much the length of. The property. Owned by. 291 Hurricane Lane. Right on the side here. And the third and fourth. Pictures are showing a car. Parked in front of this building at 291. Hurricane Lane and shows you. With. Shows you the with. Of the. 291. Hurricane Lane. And kind of supports why the staff thinks it's a safe. Area. To park cars on street. The staff, you mean the town staff. Yes. You're only talking one side, correct? Yes. And we would park on the side closest to the building. I've kind of put some orange. Flashes. On. This plan showing. The likely locations we would park cars on street. Right in front of the 291 hurricane. Lane property. Hurricane Lane. Public. What happens when you have to. Snow. During the day. It's tough, but. That's part of. A lot of places. Night time we have a parking. We're okay. We think probably around 20 to 25 cars. That's kind of the shortage of parking. We have. The. The issue is that it's a town road. And right now parking is allowed. It is allowed. You're concerned that someone's going to try to change that status. That's correct. If someone came to this blackboard and said, you know, I don't like cars parking on this road. I'm going to. Ask you folks to change this. Parking ordinance. I'm. Interested in the owner of this building who's looking to move this company here is very interested in seeing whether. He's going to have parking for his employees. Have we heard about that issue yet, Rick? Request for no. Parking. Or to. No, I've not received. Just allow parking. Currently nobody parks on Hurricane Lane. So we would be even though it's allowed. We would. This company would be the first. So our process would be that if somebody came forward to request that. We would send it off to both the public worst department and the planning department to give us a recommendation as to whether or not. They would recommend that to the board. And. The board. In our ultimate wisdom could make a decision. Yes or no. We would do it this moment. Except that we would go. Through the standard process. The process is that it. Do we have to go through a public hearing because we'd have to alter an ordinance. Recommendation. If the question was posed to staff. As it stands right now, we would support keeping the ordinance the way it is. Because. One of the town's goal is to limit the amount of. Surface and one way to do that is. To limit the amount of traffic to the city of. In previous service they already have. And the road is as was explained as. A dead end road. This is near the end of the dead end road. It's quite a wide roads there is and there is a lot of traffic. So it makes sense. I'm sorry. Oh, so the process would be if the select board. Does not support changing the ordinance keep the status quo. If you will, then it just dies. the idea of stopping or stopping allowing parking on Hurricane Lane they would have to go through the ordinance amendment process okay thank you I would but you know I was hoping for a little bit more guidance than just kicking this can down the road and go ahead well Doug you have to understand this is the first time we've been I know so I can certainly appreciate the due diligence you're trying to do from your end I totally totally get that we ever had any complaints on this well no but like nobody's really used it I would use them so yeah so if you heard what I have to say and what staff reports have to say I mean what does anyone have a feeling whether you would support the staff or you would support someone who if you were to come back if you were to come back next year and we have two new board members then what would come I don't know what to tell you I was your question how much the two buildings at the end past yours yes one is mom at sports group and the other one doesn't have a thing on it yes one is Lord they are a soft software company my Lord micro strain yeah so do they just you may not know but do they utilize all the parking that they have there generally they do yeah so they're really the only ones who probably could possibly object no that means the you know the objector would actually is across the street and maybe further down so you know anyone can object it's just it could be a for aesthetic reasons right and I was hoping to get some feedback like saying of some type because this this company is again looking to make a decision and he can't make a decision to move here if there's no sense of whether the current select board would even support the staff recommendations or not and maybe so that's not really a staff recommendation I mean he said I mean it's not like they studied it and came back to us with an official recommendation I see what you're saying I would say that you know I I don't think legally we're allowed to say hey if somebody went through the entire process we've already prejudged it and they would lose we wouldn't allow them to we wouldn't change the ordinance I don't know that I'm comfortable saying that I would have to listen to everything but one of the things I would give massive amounts of effort massive amounts of weight to is that there is a manufacturing company that has employees now in this building and you know all of the economic impact that would have on the town and you know that that would weigh quite heavily over anything like aesthetics if there's a safety issue that might change things but I don't know what that would be I mean that's helpful just having an opinion of valuing jobs and Williston is helpful is parking allowed allowed in both sides of the street it's basically allowed in general so I think Ted's absolutely right and particularly the piece about safety that's probably one of the key things I'd also look at if the road wide enough to support on-street parking and whatever truck traffic it's probably gonna have to carry right now it is and that you know if if that's an official you know when I was first contacted okay yeah is this a type I mean this is gonna get slightly off subject is there a reason why there aren't parking spots striped on the road painted when okay but that could be okay there's on-street parking be good if it was or orderly on one side I mean it'd be kind of odd to have cars on one side and then another side then maybe you know doesn't reduces the safety any safety issues yeah that would require an ordinance change because we would be changing how the parking can occur on the street okay all right those we can do tonight I think all right sorry thanks for your time thank you thank you anyone else who wishes to make any public comment tonight if not then we'll move on to interviews and appointments we have one candidate for the old brick church and I asked John Butterfield to come up to the table and we do have your application form but if you would briefly give us an idea of your background regarding the request to be on the old brick church board and just a brief background and why you'd like to be on okay my name is John Butterfield and my wife and I live at 721 North Wolfson Road we've lived there for the past 33 years I'm an engineer by training and I've worked for the last 31 years for how am I CS which is a consulting firm in South Burlington chairman of the board and vice president and shareholder etc I'm also a involved in a real estate partnership in a commercial building in South Burlington my interest in the old brick church is you know I've been interested in the in the history of the church of the old brick church and now that I am sort of backing off from my full-time job I have a lot more flexibility than I did and I'm trying I'm looking for opportunities to be able to participate in the town activities and this would this look like an interesting position I talked to Jack Price who was my former dentist and Eric Peterson who was my orthodontist and but Jack kind of filled me in and it's something that I'd like to express an interest in thank you questions from the board I guess I have one John for some reason this tends to fall on my shoulders to ask it's the conflict of interest question I don't know how there necessarily could be a conflict of interest here but if there were how would you reckon or you know how would you recognize it what would you do about it if there were conflict of interest I would notify the the trust the fellow trustees that perfect thank you your background seems you know quite good for for the position what are the duties for the trustees for the brick church or the church they oversee the use and maintenance of the building you envision the old brick church becoming lead certified probably not okay perhaps some energy improvements as part of the facility maintenance and upgrade but I think lead certification would be probably above them yeah okay do you see any issues with the building or anything you want to try to do there well I would like to learn more about I know about the the winter concert series and the you know the private activities but I would like to learn more about what what are all the activities that are held there Rick shoots me down every time on this but they have those two great old wood stoves in the back I'd love to see those hook back up any news but I don't think it's going to happen renewable energy thank you any further questions for John if not then a motion would be order if you wish to do this tonight I've moved to appoint John Butterfield to the old brick church trustees to an unexpired five-year term through June 30th 2019 second motion is made in seconded is there discussion on the motion if not all those in favor of the motion say aye I may oppose congratulations you on it so thanks for your service okay thank you I look forward to it the next we have we are scheduled we're scheduled to have four people here who are interested in the planning Commission G Miller has submitted a letter saying that he is withdrawing his name from from being in contention and because he's been appointed to the energy plan task force and feels that that will take up more of his time than he can devote to this so we're down to three candidates Jules part uni is unable to be here this evening just because of a conflict that suddenly developed we do have a copy of her CV that we got tonight and but she will not be here for the interview tonight so we do have I believe two people to interview tonight and then we can go from there and see whether we wish to make an appointment tonight or not so Ron Bulmer is he here and Cindy Provost I know you're here so why don't you both come up to the the table and I know Cindy Cindy is also interested in being on the rec committee but tonight we'll concentrate at least that right now we'll concentrate on the the planning Commission and so if you would both just introduce yourself for the the record and give us a brief description of why you'd like to be on the planning Commission and your background my name excuse me is Ron Bulmer recently moved here from Morrisville lived in Morrisville for four years my wife and I sold our organic CSA outside of Austin Texas four years ago and moved to Vermont and after living in Vermont for four years we decided to downsize moved to Williston we moved into the Hamlet neighborhood it met our needs our kids like they chose this area that we like Williston and I've spent some time in Morris town learning Vermont land use laws observing and attending planning councils familiar with what's going on I come from a background in criminal justice worked in my as an intern in college for the criminal justice planning council out of Midland and Odessa it's not team counties doing project director works bought a million dollars worth of police gear one summer and then I worked several years an adult in juvenile probation basically ran the regional juvenile jail detention facility and went from there and taught at the State University in right south of Austin Southwest Texas State I was on the criminal justice faculty was a corrections expert it was a law enforcement program I had attended the University have undergraduate degree in law enforcement administration and a master's degree from the University of Texas at Austin in vocational rehabilitation and during my career have done training staff development the interesting thing is all along one of the treatment programs is to teach offenders how to plan where they're at and you start on the street who are you is this what you want to be happening what's been going on is it working for you what's the plan and it's just kind of a treatment modality that is used quite frequently in probation to help people always come back so you expect failures you always come back to okay let's revisit the plan what can we do after while in probation I acquired computer skills and eventually migrated to the computer industry as a data communications network sales engineer with a company that was bought by Cisco systems as I was developing my it credentials I worked for the state environmental protection we called it train records what it was the Texas natural resources Commission controlling air and water in the state of Texas so I've have a lot of experience and just want to jump in here as a new resident and offer any assistance I can get to you to you people thank you very much thank you Sunday quite a few years since 2001 I have two kids that are getting older I used to volunteer a lot in the schools but now I'm not doing that so much because they're kind of high school and first year in college so I my background is I have a background in real estate property management building I started a company in Ferrisburg creative carpentry did new build remodels and worked with either spec homes or potential we built for people so we did all the planning and zoning to permitting for that home to be built and all of that kind of stuff did that for 78 years after that I moved from Ferrisburg area here to this area South Burlington I was in real estate for five years but I also managed 40 plus homes single families condominiums apartments for that company as well did all the management and renting and everything involved with that for them that's a South Burlington company century 21 Jack associates I then I was there for yes six years then my sister who owns a property maintenance company and South Burlington and needed some help so I stepped in and helped her and became a supervisor with her with a landscaping and design company I had experience with that and I have a master gardener certification with that as well I've taken classes and know all of the code of ethics for real estate property management and all of that kind of stuff for Vermont and now the last eight years I've had my own company it's on tried property management doing just that I manage some of my sisters in my own properties that we own income properties and properties for the people as well and I've kind of made my own little niche here for helping elderly people do their outside work that they can't do it themselves in their own home so I kind of like doing that to help them so kind of added that on to the mix and I have two large estates that I take care of all of their property and then some so it's kind of what I'm doing now and I just thought like I said I've volunteered in the schools with my kids and done quite a bit with the FAP and the programs and I was part of the reconfiguration team in the school system back when they redid all of that in the school and I found that with the kids being older that that kind of thing is you know I'm not in the school anymore so I've kind of thought I would like to do something and to contribute to the community in a different way and of course planning is kind of up my alley and I'm also you know interested in recreation too as far as good planning that too so I figured I would say I was interested in a little more interested in the planning part but like I said I'd like to help contribute to the community in whatever way I can you're welcome thank you question is from the warden you're both applying to both Brack and planning Cindy is applying for recreation committee as well as planning Commission I would do one or the other but I have a plan to the planning Commission questions from the board so my question and I guess I'll ask it once and then you both can answer has to do with the town plan and it's along the lines of have you had a chance to read the town plan and then hopefully if yes what you'd like about it what don't you like what you know what do you see is working in Williston maybe even importantly what is it working so flip a coin choose who to go I spent most of the weekend going through the plan once again I like the way it's put this was a long weekend right this was a long weekend yes and I like the way it's laid out it seems progressive it has the farm based rules of how zoning is done it dovetails well and it leaves oh it answers a lot of questions before you start down the road if you're thinking about doing the business or moving to the community what really attracted me was the dense residential area that's been put in I live in the tap corner area and have a son who's in Amsterdam getting a degree it's real dense there I'm interested in seeing Williston develop high density populations that is attractive to homeowners and attracts families to come into the community and how do we do that and control traffic dogs and have plenty of green spaces and to me it's just every every place has issues I can get real critical but I think it takes all of us working together and sitting in a room looking at the situation of how we're having an issue in my neighborhood with dog droppings in the in the neighborhood and how do you get compliance out of a population of as diverse as we have the real nice thing about about where I live here in Williston is there it's a very diverse population I have four Asian families in a two block area we have blacks Hispanic folks in the neighborhood a nice mix of older people like myself some snowbirds who live in the neighborhood and the nice thing is that the bus stop in the morning picks up some real cute little kids and they're all different colors and this kind of puts a future hope that Williston seems to have achieved when the rest of Burma has kind of struggled with economic development so I don't know if I answered your question I didn't to be honest have time to read through the whole thing but I have bounced through and picked certain areas that I thought were you know kind of what I've lent to see as I've been in Williston for a long time and how it's progressing again I do like how it's trying to stay densely populated in the areas instead of creating more sprawl I'd really like to see the farmland not be built on you know I I encourage building for sure but and I but I think I think Wilson has done a good job of being and recognizing that part so overall a lot of what this gentleman said but um and I definitely am in favor of keeping the working how plan is currently going as far as keeping the population good thank you thank for the questions so I had that one pesky little question that reason falls on my shoulder to ask it's the conflict of interest question how would you recognize it what would you do about it maybe Cindy ask have you answer first I would definitely if I thought there's any type of conflict of interest of course I would mention it to the person that I would need to mention it to and say that I wouldn't be able to participate in that particular issue problem whatever it may be due to a conflict of interest of course I would agree if there's a conflict in a decision that's before the board that I'm involved in I would recuse myself and state reason why publicly and wait for direction when to return to the need any further questions if not then the question before the war is do we wish to make a decision tonight or do we wish to have a interview with the third candidate one spot one spot I'd like to be able to interview me to Cindy as well I'm Joe I'm sorry so we'll put off decisions then until we can meet with Joe hopefully in two weeks and then make a decision on planning commission and recreation committee at that time so thanks very much for your time so we'll move on then to the public hearing on the keeping of chickens regulation the under the authority of 24 VSI sections who 291 14 in the Williston Town Charter the Williston Select Board will hold a public hearing to receive public comment and I proposed care and keeping of chickens ordinance hearing will hold on Tuesday September 4th 2018 at 7.30 p.m. at the Town Hall meeting room so the public hearing is now open and perhaps Eric you would want to give us a brief overview of what we're talking about tonight sure so the board probably recalls over the last several months we've gone through iterations of a draft of a care and keeping of chickens ordinance in town at the board's last discussion that asked to schedule public hearing to receive comments from the public on this proposed ordinance you have in your packet the ordinance as it reads now after the discussions we've held I don't think we had many revisions since the last discussion we had so this was current as it reflects what the board has looked at so far in terms of process I guess I can touch on that a little bit later so the public hearing then is open to anyone who wishes to make any comment regarding the ordinance proposed ordinance and whether you're for or against just if you please identify yourself you can do that or you can speak from where it is if you identify yourself that'd be helpful support and change if we are happy ability to raise and grow our own food anyone else who wishes to speak can we hear the proposed ordinance as it's written out just summarize it so we know exactly what the issue is Eric would you like to summarize the and this goes with the other discussion tonight is a change in the town's development bylaw right now keeping of livestock is not allowed on on residential lots less than one acre in size so if the bylaws also amended to go with this it would allow for keeping of chickens on lots under one acre in size going with that this ordinance would regulate how chickens are kept on lots under one acre in size so it's proposed some of the main points are exemption for residential lots one acre greater so only apply to those smaller lots ordinance is not overwrite any regulations related to chickens established by a private homeowner's association a maximum of six female chickens hens to be kept on a property there being annual permit requirement and fees each year and there's regulation required to the size of the chicken coop where it's located materials to use storage odor and noise impacts enforcement then there's also sexual enforcement measures for violations public news is created on those types of things how did that come out in the first place this preceded me a little bit at my time working here so I believe it's and allows you Rick it came up because there were some residents that wanted to keep chickens and our ordinance did not allow for that or actually our bylaws did not allow for that unless an acre we want to keep chickens unless an acre so when the board started thinking about changing the bylaws they also said well if we're going to change the bylaws maybe ought to have some regulations because we're talking about keeping animals in much smaller lots where neighbors are much closer so on a land on acre and large bigger than that you can only keep up to six chickens is what it is another way around so this would right now if you have land over an acre you can keep chickens on that land this would allow it so you can keep chickens you have land that's under one acre and if the ordinance is adopted it would set the maximum amount at six chickens what kind of fees would you propose on land of an acre or less as it's written right now the permit the first year would be fifty dollars and then to renew the permit would be twenty five dollars after that so that would be a yearly fee? yep an annual fee as drafted we put that would be effective from April 1st through March 30th so that would be the the permit year do you think I could discourage people from having chickens? what would you like to resist to what the reason is in the first place if you don't know for it is that an expense it's an additional you know expense that's a policy question for the board I can say other towns have an ordinance like this in place there's a fee structure other towns charge in the area so you're basing the fee on other towns charge what's the fee for? what is the fee for? the fee would cover the administration of the permit also if there are complaints against the person who is keeping chickens then we would have to have an enforcer to go and check that out and make sure that things are being done according to the ordinance does the town of Wilson already have a help? the town health officer does not necessarily fall under her duties do you need an additional fee for that person to be able to handle that? sorry I didn't understand the property tax doesn't cover that the officer goes and deals with the issue we need an additional fee for that we need an officer to go there would not be an additional fee the only fee that we're talking about at this point is the initial one in the renewal fee in other towns we are told that the number of applications are not great and they do have the same type of assistance that we're proposing at this point I guess my issue is it actually doesn't even apply to me because we have a land of more than an acre but I look at it from a broad perspective people that maybe don't have more than an acre than want to have chickens by imposing a fee on just the people you're basically discriminating against a larger group or as that would in a sense because they're unable to afford land of more than an acre or for whatever reason don't want it on more than an acre whatever the reason is that's to me would be discriminating against that class of individuals that wants to sustain a food source or a family by imposing any kind of a fee on that it's their property there are private property rights but as far as I can say even if they want to have chickens now regardless of local ordinance as it is they would be able to have chickens in their land we wouldn't be able to do that if there are isolated issues they could probably address that isolated issue but why apply it to the whole town? that's a big impact on everybody the problem was that we came up with was that there is a regulation in town that we can't have chickens on a property less than an acre so that was the question that was brought before us by numerous people and in order to make any kind of sense we thought anyway to make any kind of sense of this this was the proposal that we were bringing forward to a public hearing and see what kind of results we would get from the public hearing it's possible that tonight we may not go forward with this at all or we may and if we do we would need to send it by our legal counsel I imagine for possibly making this change there's no reason that somebody who wants to provide a root source to their family shouldn't be able to do so if we have an acre less than an acre or more I don't really understand there are some developments in town so their own bylaws don't permit raising the chickens in their own in their developments but anyway but if you don't live in more developed environments and you have under an acre you're still asking those people to pay $50 is that $50 a solid $50 or can you even negotiate to say only make it $20 or nothing the ordinance that we're looking at right now has a fee for anyone who wishes to raise chickens in a parcel less than an acre right I understand that so what I'm saying is right now you're setting it at $50 what is the reason for $50 is it going to be less than that it could be part of the other discussion is aside from the fee as you talk about the structure and the waste elimination I guess you could say what is that all do you have those parameters yes I can fragile we had quite a number of quite a lot of testimony on that subject actually in the last couple of meetings we've had so any further comments regarding the proposed ordinance yes sir my name is Dave DLC the first thing I want to do is thank all of you folks for your service and everybody here in the audience for coming I definitely want to see the most in residence on less than one acre have the ability to raise chickens I sat down with the proposed ordinance and quite frankly I ran out of in my pen making marks on it I happen to think it's extremely poorly written with very vague and subjective language in it words like may and words like all that could send people down legal roads that I think are inappropriate I would like to see you just strike out of whatever language exists the statement that says you can't keep chickens and just say you can keep chickens I don't think it should be anywhere near as restrictive as you've got here how many inches the fence has got to go below the ground and what the diameter of the people who keep chickens should and often do know what they're doing and I frankly think there's more danger from dogs and cats than there are from chickens but I just think this is way over doing it just let us have chickens it's important that people do their thing obviously if it's a small person where they only have whatever much between the fences that would be an inconvenience but if they have an eco I think they can still have chickens yeah hi I was looking at this issue the one issue I see I think it's great to have since I have managed properties and I've seen a lot of people impacted by chickens by owners that don't know what they're doing to be honest with you chickens get out and get on to other people's property they prove on other people's property they you know yeah they do but I'm just it just adds another element we can't have a two way conversation if you're under an acre you could be in a place where neighbors are very close together and that's going to impact other people it's agricultural animals versus domestic animals it's a difference there's a place in Essays that the police they're saying they have to call people there all the time because their chickens are running all over people's properties across the road and impacting other residents so if you want to talk about discrimination that's discrimination that's impacting other people's property unduly because things like that can happen we have to look at the ratio of how many people are happy and how many are not if there's only one case here and there they can be dealt you know very isolated everybody can understand but neighbors are usually very dark we cannot have a two way conversation if you wish to address the chair please do so anyone else who wishes to speak on the ordinance I've gotten favor with the chickens if it's today consolation I live in between chickens I have no chickens but I agree it's a great we benefit from it as well the last chance for comments regarding the ordinance before we close the bullet hearing yes I'm not saying no chickens I'm just saying there's a reason why they have this in place that we've got an ordinance and the fees they're charging are not outrageous and if they have to make a call to a place like what I'm describing that's happened in Essex just in one instance that I know of because it happened to me right next to my mother then that's the cost that the town has to prove over and above making the town have to approve because they don't have chickens so that's why taxes would cover that because it's something different that's causing that's all I'm not saying it against it I just agree with there has to be stipulations for it that's all I would agree that there has to be stipulations for it but just reading these few things in here I think he said it's a little over the top I mean I know someone who has chickens they're penned in they've been left out when they're home they've not let out when they're not around so they're always supervised if you will and I just think that some of this he says a very defense 12 inches underground I mean I know the chickens they've all seen that but there's way to maintain that to fix that if you're having chickens I think that people are responsible chicken owners and they're not going to just let them roam around the neighborhood that's just my thoughts on that some of this stuff is of course I'm just reading this for the first time I couldn't find it online does it online somewhere? yeah it was on the town's website I didn't find it so yeah I think some of this is just a little over the top but comments before we close the public hearing on the topic of the ordinance if not there's a motion if there is a motion to close the public hearing I have a motion to close do we hear our second? discussion of the motion those in favor of closing the public hearing say aye aye any opposed we move on to the public hearing on the proposed bylaw amendment and that is the Williston select board will hold the public hearing to receive comment on proposed changes to the existing Williston unified development bylaw pursuant to 24 VSA section 44 42 and the Williston unified development bylaw public hearing place on Tuesday September 4th 2018 at 745 p.m. in the Williston town meeting room so Eric could just give a very quick summary of what we're talking about as far as the changes of the bylaw sure this is the other piece the kind of enabling legislation piece here this would need to be changed in order to allow chickens to be in a lot under one acre in size so without this change then having an ordinance to regulate is essentially the board may recall that this language was in the unified bylaw amendments the larger package the board saw in the spring then we sent it back to the planning commission originally had poultry instead of chickens poultry could encompass number of different birds so we sent it back to the planning commission they had a couple of minor comments in section 2010 just referring to leaving it open at a permit may be required and then the other language as the board sent back sent to the planning commission was kept the same so this is really enabling piece so the public hearing is open for those who wish to make any comments regarding the proposed change in the bylaw anyone wish to speak on this is for changing people anyone else who wishes to speak on the bylaw last chance before we close the public hearing on this particular one and the motion then would be in order to close the public hearing so any discussion on the motion in favor of closing the public hearing say aye any opposed so we're now on to the subject of whether we are not considering adopting the proposed ordinance or if we were to actually not to adopt it tonight because it would need to go to the council before we could adopt it but thoughts regarding on the board regarding going forward with the proposed ordinance so two things we did hear from I forget the last group of people who came in on the ordinance thought it was a little over cooked maybe from overly regulated and then you have to decide how much can you really regulate are we going to check fences buried to a foot and the other thing I think that I heard was the cost and I guess it comes down to what people would have six chickens for right is it because is it a hobby or is it a a food need or wanting to you know grow there and create their own food and fifty dollars to some people that will be a lot to some people that will be a little but is that I guess with six chickens how many eggs do you create I don't know the answer to that myself so is that a big inhibitor because it costs you have to buy feed and house all the things that go with that and then put fifty dollars in top of that I don't know whether that's the right fee structure what did we find out from the other towns do we know what was the fee for south Burlington try to recall I believe it was in thirty forty dollar range maybe twenty five I have the numbers and my desk burden we put on and how much we're going to check the installations and I mean we also heard about enforcement in another town I guess I don't understand that but did we put the right checks and balances and our ordinance in the event that we have repeat violations of or nuisances right we were talking about with the fees if you recall the discussion Jeff correct me because you're pretty good at remembering the stuff we were talking about that and making sure that folks that wanted to do this were seriously invested I've always had a public health concern with this whole thing and that we wanted to make sure that it wasn't passing school project that somebody just got into and then didn't take care of it so it's a deterrent fee not a deterrent it was a concern of making sure that it was something you truly wanted to get into you've got a big investment like you said with the coop and everything else that was the discussion that I seem to recall that was going around so that's why the $50 I may be wrong that's why I'm looking over at Jeff very much along the same lines slightly different remembrance because I remember questioning what the fee should be and should chickens be the same fee as domestic animals like dogs or is the select board had overall the consensus was is we had concerns about the health issues with chickens and that that would be the justification for a higher fee for chickens than let's say domestic animals because there are additional or different maybe as a way to put it safety concerns with chickens and the person that came to spell that at least one of the chicken actually she went quite at length about the things you had to be worried about however she was very much in support of them she just was pointing out the things that were a big concern and I'm no expert exact which is safer a dog or a chicken I thought she was making that point that the chickens were no worse than having dogs and so a big thing about washing hands and separate shoes and all kinds of things there are some unique aspects of chickens you know the Salmonella the baby chickens I thought she was handling very first when you first get them they're very cute and you want to handle them and you really should okay that's the other question I guess I might as well ask and if you remember I kind of have a little bit of a conceptual issue with the female chickens only and I guess I was corrected to say for a couple reasons one it seems kind of unnatural to me on the other unnatural and they said you know who would want to be in a hen a hen house with you know just I don't know just seems a little unnatural but also the concept that I mean like Jeff the discussion about the rights of roosters but the other issue is when you order chickens and you order six female chickens you might not get all six that's just the nature of the business and I just have a hard time with that concept of what is the person who thought he was ordering six chickens got six female chickens got five females and one not a female I don't know I just I guess I have a little conceptual difficulty with that so where are we going with this is the question first of all my concerns don't outweigh my belief that the ordinance should be adopted but those if I was the king of Williston those would be the changes I would make other thoughts I'm actually for the ordinance I'm thinking maybe it's a little over the top but it just comes down to how are we going to enforce things like looking at how deep fence is buried right is that practical we should probably be practical if anything right I like the things we talked about as well and making sure people who are going to undertake this have some level of education right we talked about some kind of a pamphlet or something to be created to make sure although it's not a slight undertaking I'm still up in the air on the organ I don't know how the $50 weighs against the cost of the coop and the chickens and the feed and the composting and all the other things it seems like a deterrent fee more than a you know it's um we should make it we should cover our costs right if we think it's going to cost something to administer this we should cover it but we should make it a deterrent fee and I guess I just don't know what that should be Mr. Chair so I guess the question is is there support of three of them select board members or more to go forward with an ordinance whether it's this ordinance or whether it's something that we wish to modify yes we have my support the last I knew there were two for and two against I hate this part of being on the select board I'm not in favor of it and I don't like to disappoint and have people be mad at me but the reason is I'm just looking at the you know if you know the nature of Williston has changed considerably we've got a lot of properties that have considerably less than an acre now and you know if we have you know just doing simple math and you can play with the numbers anyway you want I suppose in both directions but if you have you know we have four parcels and each of them have six chickens and that's 18 chickens in one and a half acres and that would be a lot and that would be legal if we change the ordinance the other thing I'm worried about is that you know the difficulty is that the people who are in favor of the ordinance are all responsible good people who trust it but that's not what law is designed to do you know I mean there wouldn't have to be laws against drunk driving if everybody was responsible but it only takes a couple people to not be responsible to throw the whole thing out of whack I mean that's what law is is to make sure that there's an enforcement mechanism because not everyone is responsible what I'm concerned about is the ability to enforce this because I don't think you know we have the infrastructure in place to actually enforce it so I'm as much as I don't like taking positions against a room full of people I'm not in favor of being concerned from the very beginning so unfortunately and I also hate to disappoint people I'm not in favor of this and it's been my concern right along as being a public health professional for 38 years that I would not agree to the ordinance or the amendment to the bylaws either so it would appear that we have three that oppose the ordinance the bylaw amendment so at this time I think we can say that this will not go forward and we can reassess this at some other point in time wish to so let's go on then to the update from the police department and she fully is here thank you that you're going to take off I presume you're okay so chief welcome thank you thank you thank you for allowing me to be here this evening and I won't take too much of your time to give you an update it's been almost 11 months since I was sworn in here but actually my time beginning here was started in August of last year when I was offered the position to be chief and then a lot of issues dealing with certification recertification to get my certification back here so it's taken a long time on the day I was hired back on the 16th of October I inherited three vacancies within the department at that time within two hours of swearing in I inherited vacancy and then two weeks after that I had my fifth vacancy and the vacancies were two patrol positions actually three patrol positions a dispatcher's position and an administrative assistant I'll deal with the administrative assistant last because that has taken us the longest we were quickly able I was quickly able to fill the full-time dispatching position with a certified dispatcher out of the state police within the city was hired shortly thereafter we made a conditional offer to a female that had been working with the Woodside Juvenile Facility to be our first officer to fill one of the patrol because her name was Sarah Bell she is currently in the 106th Academy that's going on started on the 30th of July we had some issues with the administrative assistant she had gone through close to 200 resumes and applications did three interviews made three job offers the first two one was let go quickly when we found out there was discrepancy and her answers to her oral board the second one I think three days before they were supposed to begin she withdrew her name from the process to move out of state and then we finally hired a administrative assistant and she started this past May so she's been on since May we were able during the process of filling those vacancies we had our six vacancy where I lost an office to Swanton PD a full-time officer but in the meantime the next door neighbor is Richmond they were going some transitional with their chief retiring we picked up a full-time officer from Richmond PD John Hamlin and I thought he might show up tonight to be introduced for those who haven't met him but he was able to just begin very quickly we did a two-week FTO program with him he's certified he's actually a defensive tactics instructor and domestic violence so we did very well with him about a month ago we filled our vacancy in the patrol staff a gentleman out of the Franklin County not Franklin but Grand Isle County Sheriff's Department he's part-time certified he will begin on the 17th of September he's scheduled for the 107th Academy in 2019 January and today I interviewed hopefully knock on wood our final candidate she's scheduled to meet with the town manager she is a certified officer out of Minot, North Dakota her and her family have relocated here to Vermont the issue with that is even though she's a certified officer in North Dakota we're not sure what her certification will be accepted here so she might end up going back to another full-time academy so on the patrol side we're making it work my goal to restructuring when we get everybody out of the academy so it's a work in progress but everybody has signed on next door to follow my philosophy I manage by walking around I am not a person that shuts my door I tell people it's just because you got a gold badge it has nothing written on the back saying that you're achieved now lock your door stay in your office and don't be seen I don't believe in that philosophy that I am out there early in the morning I had a gentleman last week stop me came in I did something wrong come into work because I come in between 5 30 and quarter six in the morning I sign on he's a I'm sure he's a groupie or retired but he works over in Essex he's in his in his 70s and he listens to the scanner so he got used to listen to Chief Buck signing on like a quarter after five in the morning and he hears me so he wanted to come and talk to me and he thanked me for being out there early in the morning going there so my troops next door will never know what I'm going to be around I do sign on because everybody signs on and we're making it work you know I've tasked all my supervisors to be responsible for their team we developed a procedure especially for training that the officers need to submit a memo indicating why they want that training what benefit is to them what benefit is to the police department and if it's well enough received then they're going to have to put a class on for the rest of the department and the supervisors have to sign off on it either yes or no and then forward it to me so I know they have the blessing so people just can't pick and choose where they want to go it has to be beneficial to what we're learning here and how it benefits the community we've established a good rapport with our firefighters in town the chief and his staff we're doing training together we've actually initiated we're responding to the medical calls with them and the thing is I've done that in my whole career even though I'm a police chief I do have an EMT background when I was in Windsor I was an EMT part of a fast squad in my town I lived in but I volunteered for the flight department there to help them out and they continued when I was in Douglas I carried a tactical gear medical gear in my car and it was able to assess the patients before the ambulance got there to give them one step up so now we're helping them out and I think it's a good positive for both both agencies we're training together we're working on an active shooter drill along with the firefighters, the police department we also have the state police involved with us and the schools so it's a work in progress we're not rushing it we did a walkthrough tabletop exercise a couple of months ago with the state and I think everybody you know we knock on wood hopefully we never have to deal with it but 11 years ago I think it was or 12 years ago they had that shooting in Essex at the school so you never know in this day and age it's you know it could pop up any place so that's what we're doing we have a good you know I get along good with the chief we have lunch together when we can fit in and we have schedules but you know I think it's important that in a community this size people want to see both all the agencies and even including our public works department you know we work closely with Bruce with speed enforcement targeting neighborhoods we put another speed monitor up the newest one is on whole stage road and a large monitor we can trail at any placement people have issues so again we're getting my people out in the department the traffic enforcement one of the big things I did when I started is I interviewed everybody in the department especially all the officers I spent time with them I rode with them and the big common problem they all had was our CAD system our RS men we were currently on Valcor which was you know a software that was developed by a police chief but what us is that we basically have three type of dispatches for us you know the day shift is our own dispatches tonight right now after 7 o'clock the state police dispatch for us and the fight department is by Sheldon PD on a separate software and so they wanted to go back to Spillman and we looked at the course there was really I think it was like an extra $100 for the software to do it but it's what the state police use my guys love it it makes our job a lot user friendly then big PR and morale builder for the guys that have that so it really is one step we took I listened to the troops I felt there was a need that we go that way again that could all change once so we decide which way we're going to go with the regional dispatch so again we could be in a totally different type of CAD system our you know record management system but right now you know because we're dispatch at night time by the state if we don't have a daytime dispatcher with a two system CAD system you know you get dispatch on one system then you also have to train for that to a different system it's just it was complicated so we're all on one page it makes the job a lot easier for them the other thing I did was is I instituted a neighborhood watch program it basically started on a burglary that occurred in one of the developments and we had the neighborhood meet and greet at the library I brought my officers in we discussed it and because of the discussion we had there we started off the neighborhood watch it started off with wildflower development we are now at 10 developments part of our program we're going to utilize the constable to work with us on that so we give him something to do to help us since constables law enforcement it gives us that added person that can meet and greet disseminate materials that we need and when they can't reach the officers who are in charge which is Logan Young they can reach out to the constable and give them the information and work with us so we constantly have an influence in those neighborhoods and it looks like probably within two weeks we'll add an 11th neighborhood we have signs out there so if you know other neighborhoods that are interested to let us know contact us so that's what we're going to do our bike patrol we added the second bike officers in the summer trained them we bought a brand new bike for them and they've been spending a lot of time in Maple Tree Place and across the way you'll see them in the parking lots of Home Depot, Wal-Mart last week we had them up on is it Mud River up off of Mud Pond we had some complaints about parking up there so we put the bike up there and he ran the trails and there was a good feedback from the neighbors that they saw a bicycle also so we're targeting those things with the music this summer at Maple Tree Place I talked to a lot of people that went there and I thought it was a good positive influence I see the visibility of police officers out there on a bicycle they're very versatile and all that so they'll go all over and they actually do motor vehicle enforcement we stick them on intersections with People Park using their cell phones and texting and all that so it's an eye-opener that we're out there and trying to do all different types of enforcement activities we're in the process of receiving our newest vehicle we went with a pickup for the newest vehicle we added so this will be our six patrol vehicle I have two officers who are commercial vehicle enforcement we do get a lot of complaints last year we had a lot of complaints on a lot of the roads where the truck shouldn't be so we will put the officers out there they carry six scales they're 35 pounds 40 pounds each so it's kind of hard to put them in a trunk of a cruiser or in the back of an SUV so it will be dedicated to just two officers who are my truck team so the miles will be down but it brings in some good revenue and it gets the message out that truckers and commercial vehicles should pay attention to what the law is and stay off roads that shouldn't be on so we get called out a lot by the state police to assist them on truck enforcement especially if there's accidents so it's nice to have that credibility of having people out there being able to do that and I mentioned Richmond we've been in dialogue with them myself and the town manager along with the state police we're currently assisting them on calls at night time it's basically probably after two o'clock in the morning when the state police are not on duty so we only respond to emergencies so domestics, motor vehicle acts and crime and progress and we're waiting to see because they're in the process of hiring a new manager to see which direction they're going to go and we've until they get a new manager in place we'll assist them and then we'll probably start some discussion on it I just don't have the bodies to guarantee full time patrols there at this point but we'll assist them as needed as possible and that's pretty much it I'm just going to see if I missed anything along the way no I think that's pretty much covered my first 11 months there so I open to discussions thank you and a special compliment to the officer here who's really done a nice job and his follow-up is outstanding what I try to do on that is I try to special everybody to do something so it's not just one person you're not calling up and getting and I know Travis Officer Trabluski he does the community policing and he works closely with lost prevention and we've got a good dialogue going with Walmart we're working on trying to get Home Depot to be a little more user friendly and they called me today they want to do a crime prevention or safety program they do every year so again that might be opening the door I've been in touch with corporates on them we've come up with ideas how we can increase their security awareness their cameras if you can just better your camera's locations for me we can do a lot more with that we do we have a Facebook page now we have a Twitter account we're getting in that mobile technology social media and that's what people do if you notice we had the upskirt two weeks ago at Marshall we stuck that on our Facebook page we threw it out to all the news media we have a good report with every news station in Chittin County the four 22, 3 and 5 they work well with us I try to do as much PR work with them and getting stuff out there we've continued to recognize our officers at milestones to get a little more pat on the back for them and letting the news know we've got our blotter again the local people here so again we're trying to do that but I try to have all my officers do one specialty so everybody feels they're doing something good for the department they can train the firearms officers the instructors domestic violence, defensive tactics commercial vehicle people we just did stop the bleed with the fire department I sent two of my officers along with their guys to a program everybody believes nothing will happen to you we're concerned about if one of my officers has evolved in an accident at two o'clock in the morning they'll be able to take care of their bleed if they're injured until the fire personnel but any type of that we get into a shooting situation we can treat those people quickly so that's what we're working on that's our next big thing tied into the act of shooter we're doing stop the bleed and have tactical teams that it's not just police officers going to the building but it's actually we're bringing the fire the paramedics in with us so it's worked out well it's been a good 11 months it's been a good run and I've enjoyed it and I've enjoyed meeting the people here in the community you'll see me day in day out weekends one Saturday I showed up in an accident scene because I was out listening to it I have a scanner in the car now that was one of the added things I wanted I upgraded my cruiser with better lights so it's not a single light but I'm willing to answer questions the other two things is that I redeveloped our coins we have challenged coins I'll each give you one before I leave but I'm trying to brand the PD we have our own branding and I tell everybody is that you got to remember October 16th forward is Pat Foley, Chief Foley I have no control before that so anything we want to do it's all about us now so we have baseball hats that has WPD doesn't say Williston PD so hopefully by the end of this week our new hats will be in Williston Police with our badge it's a brand but it's amazing that little add of incentive to your equipment it brings a lot of respect to them so that's what I want I want them to respect and go from there and I always re-emphasize how would you like to be treated if you got stopped by a police officer we get back and people like that so when we see that in the comments on Facebook or in the calls we get every time I get an out-of-boy my officer gets a copy of it it goes into the file remember the press, there's a question for you I have a question with Williston you mentioned in social media just wanted to anticipate having a policy on how it's going to be used like in a scenario where you have a arrest and you have a headshot of a suspect or an arrestee do you feel it's appropriate to post that? Yes, I do and again I have to just make sure that it doesn't interfere with a case a lot of times I might ask for clarification from the state's attorney but if you follow our you know when we send a press most of the time there is a mugshot with that with social media would you post every mugshot you take, every arrest or just the ones you feel like you want to or is there a policy on which one? We haven't developed a policy that's next on the agenda is looking at all our policies that's going to be a work in progress I am looking at other department policies but I've always done that where you made an arrest it's an arrest then that person should be identified unless it might complicate the case Any questions from the board for the chief? I have two questions one is you talked about the officers that have to go through the academy or potentially the woman from Yes, North Dakota Are they employed? Yes, they will be employed immediately and then all through waiting for the academy What is their status when they are first employed if they are not? They would be considered an employee that has to be with a field training officer because they don't have their level certification so what I would do is since Officer Olivo come on on the 17th he is part time certified in Vermont so he is a level 2 certification which is basically he can only do certain things out on the road by himself but we don't have a part time staff here so he would be signed for 12 weeks with a full time FTO person in that 12 weeks the way the academy is set up is you have a 16 week program after 16 weeks you still have to go back and they call it post graduate training so everything that is not covered in the 16 weeks you have to go back and take additional courses so what we try to do when we did it with Owen Dugan who graduated this past May he was hired just before I came on he was hired in September so they let him go to all the post graduate training prior to his 16 weeks so when he graduated all we had to do is put him on an FTO program for one to two weeks and then he was all done by himself he could go on himself so that's what we are going to look at with the officer Oliver get his post graduate training all done before the academy and then once he graduated he is all set with the young lady that we are looking at right now at what or not she would commit to us I have to send all her training documents her academy class because her academy was 13 weeks in North Carolina and let them the academy decide what it meets based on the Vermont requirements for certification there has been a constant dialogue over the last few months about the waiver process within the criminal justice training council and the certification where it really needs to be looked at I think the last time so again it's a work of progress it's changing I think you know we got to really look at working with the legislators maybe from Montlinks and City and Towns to come up with some sort of guidelines how we bash people coming from outside the state that have been to full-time academies and then they have been told they have to go back to another academy why would I want to do that and some of them have been longer academies than the last 16 weeks we got to look at the objectives which will be beneficial to the communities my second question is maybe for both you and the town manager is on the constable duties I heard the constable being mentioned as part of the neighborhood watch and we had a discussion here I thought about the constable not being involved in kind of Leo activities I don't know if that's is it as you know the town voted against having the constable involved in any kind of law enforcement direct law enforcement what the chief is talking about is not direct law enforcement if you want more information Eric has had long conversations with our... he was just looking to help us out because he could do things during the daytime Logan Young works nights so if somebody calls up we could ask him to go if there's materials information we could have him disseminate to the neighborhoods they need signs great news thank you any further questions for the chief we really appreciate you coming in thank you for the opportunity it's been a long time I think the last time you heard me was on my budget and it really wasn't my budget it was Jennifer's budget and all that you'll be back for the next one yes yes I got the materials thank you thank you thank you thank you those are very nice thank you so moving on to traffic coming complete Bruce Horvitz I presume you're going to be talking about your memo to us we're talking about the rumble strips this one to make sure so I've written you a memo about the rumble strips on North Wilson Road and Mr. Fanfrock's comments and issues that he's raised so we went and asked the Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission for some advice and guidance on this and that's basically what my memo entails and comes down to actually offering three options to deal with the rumble strips and one is to do nothing leave the rumble strips as they're constructed two is leave the rumble strips in place with minor modifications remove pave over where they're located through intersections and one driveway this is a suggested practice in more than one document one guidance document or three remove the rumble strips in the vicinity of Unity and Peterson Lane and I give you an idea of what the estimated cost I can't I'm using a thousand dollars I don't even know if it would be that much it would be not inexpensive only to do that little section not to remove all of them I'm talking about just at Unity and the area around the corner for a couple hundred feet to put it back to the what the final came out of the report was it's literally just getting some sand mix and using our guys to go down the middle of the road and pave them out were you done with your I have to admit I'm confused because you said you wanted to follow the MUTCD and that's in your proponents common manual for uniform traffic control devices not manual for uniform traffic calming devices okay so maybe I'm looking at the wrong one but I'm looking at something called MUTCD Federal Highway DOTGov and it says transverse rumble strips should not be placed on roadways used by bicyclists unless there's a minimum clear path of four feet provided at each edge of the roadway and I think we actually I know I asked that question when we first very first meeting with the consultants came in you know worried about giving the space that we've recently seen the legislator ask to be given to cyclists and that is three feet right we have minimum width roads I think and it seems like the rumble strips create a hazard for cyclists edge line rumble strips certainly would create that hazard all the time centerline rumble strips will only create that hazard by making people stay in their lane and you're right Terry the road is only 20 feet wide so it is going away from the minimum guidance document it's not that's not a shall or anything else so that's why we went to the RPC and rumble strips were in the final report to be put on this road they just weren't put through the corner the way they were placed just it's just and then so there's two lines one is for rumble strips in general shouldn't be placed on roads without the you know the four feet on the edges and then the other one is they shouldn't be put on shoulders if they don't have the four feet as well because you shouldn't do it in either case right that's what it says at least what I'm not arguing with you that's guidance from FHWA there's no doubt that that's out there but these were PEs that gave us this guidance to and we provided the VTrans's guidance on rumble strips also that gives you the leeway with to do where they're at so all of its guidance it's like everything we could look and find information do this don't do that so certainly I'm no expert on this obviously but it just seemed like common sense when we first thought that that created an issue as well as putting the medians in just as a cyclist you know you come up to those medians in the middle of the road and they squeeze the cyclist unless you have extra road on the edges you know what I'm talking about the center so like they did on Skunk Hollow and two places I think okay so how much rumble strip is there on the road now 2000 2000 linear feet 2000 feet well okay and once again it was in the final document to do most of that just I continued a little bit farther than they were supposed to go because of my own looking at the map and not reading it correctly so where do they start they start just below Williston Woods road and just before Unity Lane so it's only from Williston Woods up the hill that's 2000 feet just past Williston Woods between Williston Woods and Fontaine Lane or I'm sorry the road to go up into the sand pit to give you an idea of where that's at so it is farther it's a little bit farther south it's not it's not a huge distance south a little bit farther south and then up through continuously all the way up through and around the corner two before Unity Lane but if I would have read this before I probably would have said you know why are we doing that you know it doesn't seem like it makes sense it seems like a safety issue for pedestrians and especially for cyclists but I don't know if you've read that Jeff I'm not sure what I'm looking at there this is the MUTCD you know guidelines so I made that point in his the information he provided that's where right yeah but I just wanted to look it up myself to understand because the letter we got today from Bruce indicated I thought that the MUTCD supported your rumble strips so that's why I went to look and found this took a little searching because it isn't in the middle of the document it's in this extra section section six MUTCD it's in section three and section six but they refer you to I think that's right your memo has three possible options for us to consider one is to do nothing leaving the rumble strips in places constructed the second is leave the rumble strips in place with minor modifications meaning remove or pave over where they are located through intersections and one driveway three remove the rumble strips in the vicinity of Unity and Peterson Lane wouldn't the second one include the third one wouldn't around intersections and one driveway remove it in the vicinity of Unity and Peterson Lane it would remove it at the intersection of Peterson Lane they're not through the Unity lane drive power Unity lane intersection Ted so it would be on the corner where Unity Lane I'm not Unity Peterson it comes in at that goofy angle there is that where they end now no they end they end this side of those more towards you come out of the corner and you get into the straightaway for just short distance so that's right they would we would pave them out through the intersection at Peterson we pave them out through the intersection at Williston Woods Road where they go through right now and then there's one driveway down there that actually it's an engineer that works at RSG they go right through his driveway that we would remove them there based on the idea that you're not supposed to have them through intersections and driveways so it would remove some of them up near the corner at yeah Peterson so relative to Unity Lane what's the difference between removing them through an intersection in one driveway is what you're recommending and removing them in the vicinity of Unity and Peterson Lane it just you push it further I would mean what I'm saying Unity and Peterson I would mean remove them back to what the original I'm sorry I should have been a little clearer that back to what the original report was which was to end them 500 feet 500 feet before that or something or Peterson yes before you come up the hill right guys you come up the hill you'd end them somewhere after somewhere in there go around the corner start down the hill the original report show them ending midway down that hill and that would meet that noise distance there's a distance associated with noise that you want to try to have run those strips away from residential homes it depends whose guidance document you want to use but it would it would make that distance a longer distance okay so okay so that would be how many feet of removal of 2,000 I'll be about 500 it's about half 2,000 feet oh that's right it's really that far it just doesn't seem I can go measure and I paid $4,000 at $2 a foot so we marked it out so it's 2,000 okay so the person who brought this to our attention is Michael sitting in the back there and are you interviewing what the recommendation is from Pollock Works strip's on North Bulliston Road safety and noise concerns however my argument can't hold up if he selects option 3 option 3 removes them from the sharp corner it removes them from the Vermont transit highway safety and design engineering instructions saying they have to be 100 feet away from 100 feet of a residence so if they are removed to the entire corner that removes them from the one residence on the corner that's within 100 feet that's going to be to remove them entirely however are you going to stand on in terms of safety and public law to have them removed beyond halfway down the hollows I can make it personal play that my life has negatively been impacted due to the rumble strips that my family hasn't slept well for 2 months that my son has trouble drifting off to sleep since the installation he's only 3 years old really needs his rest and when I ask him why are you having such trouble falling asleep he told me there's the cows that are keeping him awake and I said the cows are far away how are the cows going to be awake and he said well the cows are right outside my room they're keeping me awake and I said are they talking right now yes he said and I said what do they sound like and before I could ask him anything or say anything another car hit the rumble strips and my son goes they're dead, those cows unfortunately it's my new noise that noise every night we tried camping this weekend we were going to do yard camping and the cars hit the rumble strips all night long it capped my son as a result my family up all night to the point where we had a cancel yard camping and my son was devastated the noise the cars they hit the rumble strips through the entire valley I swear they touch it at start and say the rumble strips end at the end the question is expecting another kid we're expecting another kid in November I would like to be able to sleep some before the kid shows up so I can catch up on sleep for a minute before the kid arrives another night I mean honestly I can I can tell the pregnancy's always been the rumble strips but the legal argument ends happily down the hill and that's the reality I think that's this question Bruce I understand the noise benefits benefits to use if the rumble strips from the middle of the hollow whatever downhill to around the corner where unity and Peterson lane come in were removed is there any negative consequences what are the negative consequences of that if any well it just means you know there have been crashes in the community that may be that they may help mitigate but I can't tell you that there's any you know I mean the original report Jeff showed me put in halfway up the hill when I went out there and told ECI where to put them I'm the one that started them where they start at and they went in the way they are so they could come back out and we would be back to the original recommendations of the report the final report was all selected the methodology or the treatments to use and you extended it for lack of better words you thought it was a good idea to extend them further because there would be a safety benefit I extended them because in the draft report a couple of the draft reports it shows them going right through the corners that's okay and when we put the map together the plan together on where things were going I took the little eight and a half by eleven sheet of paper out there with me like we had them through the corner I said this is where they started it was an honest mistake is all it was I don't know if it was a mistake I mean it sounds like a mistake it sounds like a mistake he says it's a mistake I mean it wasn't you know honestly I would have never thought you wouldn't put them there but it was not what the final report showed to do it wouldn't be the first time at town I think this is a good idea for a legitimate reason after you live with it for a little while you realize that there are some things that you didn't realize about them what the report does it's clear in the report put them in if you don't like them because of noise take them back out it says to try them that new information okay good thank you that's what I needed yeah so the question is do we agree with the recommendation of public works and if we do is a motion to with an effect yes chief I'm going to raise some clouds to the rumble strip discussion we have at the fire department some significant concerns about rumble strips and our problem is is multi-fold most importantly when you drive across a rumble strip you have a very rough ride we go to Williston woods just under a hundred times a year for medical transports and every time we bring someone up from Williston woods we're driving up from Williston road and we now cross across all the rumble strips if you're trying to start an IV it makes it extremely difficult and we've had that problem already also and I don't have the date I'll be having everybody if I were to choose to do something but I don't recall in my years with the fire department having a head on collision on Williston road on the S-curves most of the accidents occur with cars coming up the hill and leave the right side of the road I may be wrong they might have that I don't recall any and I think that we've already moved forward to the rumble strip you're involved but I think moving forward we have to consider these both from a the noise issue the public nuisance issue there's a lot of difficulty going across these so they sound great and they do keep the cars in line but every time we leave North Williston woods we leave Williston woods development to head back up the hill to go to the hospital let's face it you're trying to get the hills as quickly as possible and that's a very narrow road and it's a pretty wide ambulance and we try to cheat as close to the center line as we can usually across the center line but we really work really hard to stay in that lane and it just slows us down a little bit hopefully you're not so thanks so what would it cost to get rid of all of them I mean I would like to see $2,000 I don't know right off the top of my head I would like to see them all go because I think you know the at least the federal government has said they're going to install them a road that wide because it's a safety concern for cyclists once again you all did take the final report which did show them on that road you didn't give us this information though I mean you told us that we gave you the information that professional engineers and our consultants that we hired gave us to give you I'm just saying that you just said you didn't give me this information I don't take all the information I get from every engineer and then go second-guess them to see if there's something else behind that that may or may not support their conclusions that's why they're PEs but I think if we find so after the fact we found information that suggests it's a bad practice for safety reasons it's clearly a bad practice for sleep reasons in a certain vicinity of houses and it sounds like it's a negative for emergency services it's unclear what the benefits are based on all the research Mr. Finifrock did so I'm just thinking did we just make a mistake here you know in general since if we don't really have any head on collision data if we don't know the benefits my feeling is I'm in favor of option three and I'm not in favor yet of eliminating all the rumble strips we could pursue that down the road if you know something starts to become apparent but right now option three seems for lack of better words take care of what I think is the most compelling problem which is a resident or residences are having a real issue of noise quality of life is decreased maybe significantly so that's the possibility to make a motion to adopt recommendation three if that's your choice I'd move to remove yes I have a question the whole suite of improvements in this plan one being the four-way stop is this the first thing that was installed the rumble strips were the first thing to be in yes as part of this I read a story that I wrote that said that was like a phase two or three thing did that change original plan was phase one I think was to do the four-way intersection I'm not positive on where all the phases which one what phase but the four-way intersection has been worn and is going to happen on the 24th of September so that took a while for that to even happen to get the signings to get the ordinance passed and all that so then we are starting to move into phase two things it just the rumble strips were something that we were able to get done and they've gotten done we put in the Chevron signs up around through those corners that are part of that plan at this point we have the speed limit sign that's going to be installed either later this week or next week and we have the flashing term sign at the top that's getting ready to be installed all in place so you were allowed to make a motion yes so just a reference points my reflection at my house is just over 1.3 miles from the distance between the rumble strips and the termination of the current location which would leave two-thirds of the rumble strips in the fire department the concerns they raised so we would only be eliminating one-third of the problem during the sharp turning exercise which isn't what I imagine these are going in I'm guessing they're going in with the rumble strips for the first 1500 feet I just have a question for Ken so the rumble strip issue with ambulances is all of the rumble strips are close enough well they start unfortunately they start just close to Woodrow they have four computers up the entire hill and I mentioned this as a point for looking forward to other areas we would be putting up in the future and I plan to look more closely at the agendas of the common opinion and statistics but in the case I think that anything to help the board of ten of them is helping we'll see what goes in thank you again Mr. Chair I'd move to the town remove the rumble strips in the vicinity of Unity in Peterson Lane and for that matter I would also add that the town should remove the rumble strips that are located through intersections and in front of a driveway so that's my motion is there a second I'll second discussion with the motion I'll support this because I want to see us remove rumble strips and I want to make sure Mr. Frennerbrock gets some sleep here but I think we shouldn't put them there in the first place it seems like there is guidance from the federal government that says no it's a safety issue so I think I'm hoping eventually we'll get to the point of removing them all and maybe at some point if we widen the road for it to be safer then maybe it makes sense to put them in certain places as long as they're far enough from houses and residences and intersections further discussion of the motion if not all those in favor of the motion say aye aye any opposed so we're taking care of that one we're moving on to Frennerbrock's common study which we tabled until a future date which is today and Bruce we didn't have the recommendations to install the I think up to 6 speed bumps in the 3 different locations in Vernon Woods and on Chamberlain Lane and we had a eventually we have the information that the speeding has taken place within Vernon Woods and Chamberlain Lane from the residents that are living there the question is is it worthwhile to put bumper yeah at this point or I guess my question would be would it be better to put in the removable type of speed humps that are made out of what heavier over or something like that for periods of time during the course of the fall spring and summer we can certainly do that I mean we can buy the hard rubber ones that can be put in on a temporary basis and taken out certainly they're not going to be there for plowing those kind if that's what you'd like to do we can certainly do that once would they come out then Bruce well I'd probably take them out at the end of October until the end of March beginning of April because I'm not going to the ones the temporary ones can't be there for plowing season and plowing season could be I mean if it snowed once or twice while they're out there we would just go out and take them out that much sooner but you know if I had to pick dates it would be the end of October until the end of March is there any cost estimate for the purchase of these things I haven't looked at buying those kind I did I had talked to Rick about looking into that to see about getting some for other locations where people may want these kind of things to happen I had not looked at those for buying I had never quite honestly Terry intended to buy six of them yeah and actually even in this report the two that are down by the park by Brennan Woods Park the report says that we should put the other four in and then I get a little bit more data for them in that area but I mean we could certainly purchase them I can't even guess at a cost though what they would cost us I think our concern at the last meeting was that putting in not putting in the bumper the humps down near the park area but doing the other two locations at that they were at least that score we were talking about I think at that time quite honestly at this point you know decided to have them put in they're probably not going to get put in bring at this point anyway just to find the money and other things if we were to put in the permanent ones that would have to go into the budget cycle anyway before that's right my reference is to do temporary in any case because first of all that's why we have the calling undertake improvements that are at least the first one or two stages aren't permanent there's unintended consequences to install these things I like your idea I think that's prudent we don't know what the costs are but I think in the long run it'll be the hub more utility than putting in permanent humps and then coming around here or so or even less later and removing them because people decide to have them after all my only question about the temporary versus the permanent is are they somewhat similar in terms of you know height oh yeah they'd be the exact size oh sure they'd be you'd have to blind for the speed so they'd be the same as if you're putting in okay so these would not be the temporary ones that get installed in parking lots that you gotta drive like five miles an hour real bump ones I won't put bumps in if you tell me to Jeff I'll put humps in and speed tables speed appropriate humps but those bumps the bumps are good what's that those are not good and I didn't mean that to be disrespectful bumps are not something we should be doing I don't see how this is going to work so I'm not sure if we need a motion I don't think we do tonight based on what I'm hearing so we'll look in what the cost is and you'll certainly see it in budget with capital items or whatever you want to get some sort of hydraulic thing through the square come the end of October November they go back down in the road you're an engineer we can do anything you want Jeff it's called money so that the plow push a button it goes back up give the fire department the button too that's true a good point the good thing about the don't worry guys I'm not counting on this being my retirement to see what you're the temporary is once you decide what to do with Brennan eventually you can move those to the next once we have them we can use them right what do you think I saw a unique a pothole actually it wasn't a pothole it was a picture that they laid down on the ground and it looked like a pothole that's fine Essex High School used to have dips in the 80s and I always remember the sign the sign said caution slow dips ahead and I always thought at least you say there's a rival of Essex I'm kind of glad that they are advertising that that in South Burlington I was building a proud tradition haven't gotten there yet traffic calming policy we have a new draft so board is a new draft with the agenda tonight to comment son we'll provide our last discussion there's some red line changes in this new draft a piece of board member Joy took a look at this as well she had voiced interest in taking a look her comments were work to condense pieces over her main piece of feedback so Rick and I have tried to condense parts of this I'll say it still needs some work we didn't get into the appendices on this go around we're kind of looking at officially appendix C we have some feedback for the prioritization criteria but taking it back to the board tonight just looking for additional feedback as we work through this if there's any areas you see to focus on any suggestions policy I read it I thought the wording was was good the only thing I'd ask is that you know we talk about the MUT CD and here that we what else would we do because we implemented some changes here as a result of the recommendations of the PEs would we write a contract or an SOW I don't know what you how you write your agreements with these groups when you hire them that's that indicate that they have to bring up any potential issues you know or conflicts with MUT CD wording or safety issues or concerns like you said Bruce they recommended it we accepted it just out of not understanding what we should have so I would is there anything in here that closes that loophole if you will that would fall under a level 3 3.2 that says with no exceptions all traffic comment measures must follow the MUT CD but does that prevent this from happening though because I guess it was unclear in the discussion because we've always talked about the MUT CD even before we've had this policy in place so somehow our PEs didn't follow that or bring up the concerns so the question is how do we make I guess the question is how do we make sure that the recommendations that are put in front of us I guess we can ask the question or look at the policies themselves as select board members it's what I did before this meeting I actually looked it up myself you know what I'm asking Eric what would be your recommendation here for closing that loophole with something if it goes to that level 3 with a traffic comment study kind of a template or just something that shows the pros and cons if there's some to each possible measure well and verify that they've checked the MUT CD the measures there suggesting that we implement are fully supported right because they did look at the state has an ordinance or statute as well that say they go by this as well local and state roads right definitely for state roads it says both but I don't know what it does this piece might be that's a good you know that that senate's there in 3.2 that's a bit tonight I think talking about rumble strips they're not defined as a traffic calming measure right Bruce I was trying to a rumble strips not a traffic calming measure but they are in the MUT CD that's something that you can use what Terry is saying is that she wants to somebody to dig deeper and find out if there's anything behind I mean MUTC is adopted by the state of Vermont right but in section 6 it says they should basically specifies where they shouldn't be used they shouldn't be used on roadways that are used by cyclists so without the 4 foot on each side it says 14 foot lane width actually it says which is what I said in section 6 it says that they need 4 feet on the edge of the road outside the drive lane for both rumble strips at the edge of the road or rumble strips in the center of the road there's 2 different line items so in section 6 which section 3 refers to that's the only thing I was saying they should have told us this right we paid them some amount of money to do this work it seems like MUTCD to be followed it seems like they should have found this just trying to figure out how do we close that suppose one thought is having a glossary of potential calming measures devices any term and lay out what those look like and pieces there every treatment is different for each project as well so we can go back and look at this some more and think about it here just great contracts with your PEs that say they got to follow these guidelines it seems they do, yeah that's kind of the easy they do anyway actually when they're guidelines they're required to follow the rules and guidelines so why would they recommend them then when they're not recommended I'm not quite sure it's as black and white in all situations this specific one that's my only question I thought the rest of it was worded pretty well under 3-2 Eric this is just a suggestion and maybe it won't work I wonder if the last sentence should read along the lines of with no exception all traffic calming measures must be identified in the MUTCD as a traffic calming measure and that gets away from the question of the MUTCD because it's a safety measure but not a traffic calming measure I mean wouldn't you also want to make sure you only implement them where they make sense and don't create other safety problems but I guess that's I mean the point of this is I don't think the MUT I'm assuming the MUTS I would say that acronym the MUTCD does not recommend traffic calming measures where it violates safety considerations I would assume I don't know I would say that's a safe assumption any other input tonight and I'll be honest Eric and I apologize for this I was away this long weekend so I've not spent the time on this I should now Ken's going to tell you he doesn't want him period we've got some more work yes please I actually go over as well I have comments on a previous draft of the traffic I haven't seen the re-draft so I think I'm going to hold off and passing my comments out tonight and I'll just direct them through Eric okay but I want to speak to traffic calming just overall and in general and I want to do it because I want us all to be open about the other side of traffic calming it does slow cars down it does keep the people give the people the feeling of having cars not racing through the neighborhoods and so forth but there are some collateral effects that occur that we want to talk about for a minute and most importantly let's not forget the fact that a speed hump-bump table makes for a little noise you drive as a car or a truck passes over particularly a truck that has a load in the back that has a lot of equipment in the back so that's the factor I think that like the gentleman behind me has experienced our negatives to having traffic calming or traffic control measures for us in the fire department there are three big ones one is that whenever you put any kind of impediment if you will to getting to the fire call or the MS call or getting to the hospital from you're increasing our response time there are proposed I believe four speed tables north wilson road that means every one of those thousand times we go to north wilson to go to wilson woods hundred times rather we're going over four tables on the way in and four tables on the way out which is eight tables and that slows us down eight tables hundred times a year think of the time lost it also interferes with patient treatment I spoke to it earlier trying to initiate patient care and it makes for a tougher ride for patient in the back of an ambulance it doesn't experience but you go over humps bumps and tables and it makes it worse and thirdly it increases vehicle maintenance costs we in the last year or two years for the tables and bumps where I've heard Blair which includes eagle and falcon with by the way another new facility coming online shortly as well as north wilson road with the wilson woods development we're somewhere around seven hundred and ten six hundred that we're going over these roads where we're going to experience speed bumps most of our calls are at Blair in the north wilson so we're going to see a lot of impact on our vehicles as we go over these bumps and to talk about impact our current maintenance cost and we try to break it down to what could be related to chassis frame and springs and tires and motor mounts and things like that FY16 was twenty thousand plus FY17 was twenty four thousand plus FY18 was twenty thousand plus and year to date, two months in is over nine thousand dollars so it's expensive to maintain these trucks potholes are bad enough and now we're dealing with the brine issue but add bumps and humps and so forth it makes it worse he met the ones on the state roads there's a risk of the cost alright so neighboring community experiences we reached out to a couple of neighboring communities and the situation deceleration puts strain on the motors of the trucks or the ambulances is harder on steering harder on suspensions whereas on the drive train they say from their public works folks that this also applies to plow trucks and Bruce and I spoke of that a couple weeks ago as well it often results in more aggressive braking when selling this speed hump bump or tables upon you it's more doable than ambulance not so doable with the fire truck or a tower ladder it springs as an example on their apparatus and ultimately it makes it a little more dangerous for staff so what I ask are look at alternatives I'm hopeful that we always do traffic studies and cost analysis and impact studies but let's look at doing signage educational campaigns portable radar trailers permanent radar signs a police presence and enforcement and maybe do those mid block we call the medians which are like little squeeze lanes without having to go over bumps we can now have to go through a little squeeze play on the roadway personal experience we left late to go to our camp last Friday night I was still doing some work so I was texting and doing emails my wife drove and we took Skunkala Road and I very distinctly remember going over three bumps as the car went over the three bumps on Skunkala Road I don't remember any one of the two squeeze plays that as you move forward in summary I'm apathetic of the concerns of the residents of living these areas there's always a danger of someone being hit by a car but it's true at any time and in any place regardless whether it's a speed bump or not statistically we have a very low incident rate for pedestrian versus automobile accidents just for the record I don't recall more than one the last couple of years and it was at Walmart probably won't be installing any speed bumps so if you have any further questions please ask and we're not completely against traffic calming we just want you to be eyes wide open and every time you put something in the roadway we have to drive over it slows us down increases maintenance and more importantly it negatively impacts the patient and of course we have an EMT or paramedic in the back of the ambulance to do any stick and you go over a bump and you miss with the stick they stick themselves and now we have further issues and we have to consider all those factors when you make your decisions thank you thanks I point blank said we don't want them either we don't like them either so you're going to submit your recommendations to yeah I'll get them over there okay thank you and then pretty much mirror what I just spoke about police driving else and signage and I heard that we're putting police in Blair Park at some of the crosswalks which we go to hundreds and hundreds of times in these facilities I don't know if it's too late to even consider this but if you're thinking of any kind of calming I think these lights out front are great and the ones in North Wilson Road or rather Old Stage Road you push the button the lights blink and it slows the cars down what's better than flashing light versus something on the roadway which in wintertime you may not see so I think we can move on to the next item which is a charter revision oh Michael in light of the fire department it may actually be the sense it almost trips entirely and save taxpayers money to have rather than re-evaluate when they racked up some of the bills in terms of cost maintenance in regard maybe once and then pay again it just seems financially prudent for safety for the community today just to get rid of all the stress in the past so we do need to consider other requests which is what we are trying to do with the calming policy is to get some kind of a consistent recognition to the people who request these kind of things now maybe there is no good solution to it but that's where we are trying to head at this point I considered what the chief said when I made the resolution 20 minutes ago and it hasn't really changed my mind at this point do you want to think more let's move on to the charter revision that we have the schedule that has been proposed by Rick including the adoption of the charter revisions that we have talked about twice now and I think we are at this point we are in agreement to go forward with them the only question I had on the proposed schedule was the second public hearing notice and the date of the meeting would be November 1 which is a Thursday which would entail us doing a separate meeting which could be done that was not our intent that was typo as long as it takes 30 to 40 days for the hearing there is a good amount of wiggle room there the one important point to note is that the board if it wishes after the first public hearing can make changes as long as it is so many days before whatever it says there actually I am looking back at this now if the public hearing was set for December 4 I would put November 1 there starting at 30 to 40 day threshold to post it in town for the warning period if it goes later than December 1 that date would be pushed forward as well so the whole reason for doing the town charter and pushing this so that you can appoint a treasurer instead of voting for one that is one of those many issues I went through the whole thing again today and that is kind of the primary one that is probably the biggest change because right now we are not really in favor of changing the town clerk although that option has been put in here and then the town constable we are going to continue appointing eliminated as a required position but no reason why we could not continue it even though it is not in the charter right right ok there are other little minor things here and there right the starting time of the annual meeting oh yeah and that one does it do we want to leave it completely open is that I mean the the people at town meeting vote as to what when it will be the next year in the time of it so that they can at a town meeting make any decision they wish to on what time to start this town meeting ok because we would not want to end up with a town meeting time that a lot of people could not attend but I guess if it is determined at town meeting I guess I don't remember that I was there but I don't recall I guess if you only got 20 people that show up and say oh we want to meet at a 3 o'clock afternoon we could do that but I don't anticipate that happening right we don't want that ok does that happen every town meeting we talk about the next so the ok right so a motion would be in order to start the proceeding scaling on the proposed amendments to the Williston town charter is presented in the charter proposal and begin the statutory amendment process by scheduling two public hearings to receive comment on the proposed amendments is there a second second is there a discussion on the motion if not all those in favor of the motion say aye the opposed good we'll move on to the manager's report just a couple items I wanted to touch on written report item C it's referenced as a substance abuse prevention initiative this is something our local rotary club has taken on as a project and we recently had a speaker and it was quite interesting and the speaker talked about the approach that was taken in the country of Iceland which is a small country I think the population is smaller than the state of Vermont but 20 years ago they had what was considered to be the worst abuse problem in Europe and now they have the best and so during that 20 year period they did a bunch of things in as far as a prevention program to change the whole situation around I'm not suggesting that's what we should be doing but I think it would be important to have a community conversation about the issue and what might be some things that we can do as a community that might work towards preventing this from becoming or continuing as a problem and when I say a problem I'm not just talking about opiate abuse although that's certainly a big part of it but abuse of alcohol, abuse of tobacco are also parts of that I'm in the early stages of working with the Rotary Club and others to put this together I've had conversations already with school officials and they're interested in it as well so I just wanted to kind of alert you this is something I'm going to be working on in the coming months but the next item I'm going to let Eric talk about it's Chapman Lane the minor change in what we had presented when we got looking at the land records if we had thought the distance for discontinuance the length was around 250 feet it's actually 155 feet so it's a little bit short with the landowners to go through the draft agreement had a good dialogue both attorneys looking at it and don't really foresee a lot of issues with that so we should have that brought back to the board here in the coming weeks at some point we do and then go out and over first whatever early October 2nd 6 o'clock on October 1st I believe maybe October 2nd it'll be one of those days we'll get some notice and it'll be the same, it'll be on the agenda it'll be part of a suckboard meeting yes there'll be a public hearing after the site visit okay speaking of board meeting dates it was pointed out to me that the November 1st meeting in November is November 6th which is election night and the request has been made by one board member anyway that we might want to consider rescheduling the meeting that night so when I sure channel 17 would appreciate that as well because they'll be busy doing other things to board members that are candidates and to board members that usually work at the polls during the course of the day and the night no, it makes sense it makes sense when I was, I just I wanted to move the conversation along so I suggested having it on Monday night that week instead of Tuesday night there's no possibility that we just can cancel the meeting I take it not likely I certainly thought I would throw that out there okay obviously we've occasionally in the past we have cancelled meetings there just hasn't been enough agenda items but those Jeff you know over the many years you served those are pretty few in far between yeah no that it's that was a facetious request to be honest okay so the Monday night seems that's what we'll go with then and then the board retreat is another topic and I was looking at the month of October because I was thinking the board might like to get this done before we got heavy into the budget process so I given that October has five Tuesdays I figured maybe we meet three of the Tuesdays of the five Tuesdays so we have a meeting on whatever is October second whatever the date is and 16th and so the 23rd would be the Tuesday after that and what we envision is a meeting starting a little bit earlier than our regular meeting and ending around nine o'clock I think and I would bring in a facilitator probably to help and the topic is the school setting does that work for everyone? the 23rd? it's important to do I mean if the agenda is light in October maybe we could skip to 16th but I'm not holding a lot of hope for that because we already have people starting to line up for the various meetings coming up so we'll go with that then and that's all I have for this evening any consideration to the budget process in December and January we've spoken in the past? schedule wise we're going to change the schedule a little bit what we're going to do is on the first meeting in December we're going to give a brief budget overview which is what we normally do when you'll get the budget books that night the second meeting in December we are going to first permission start the meeting early I'm not sure what time that would be but you know 6.30 maybe and then run it until 9.30 and we that extra time and we'll be just doing budget stuff will allow us to get more departments done early rather than on the back end in January and if another meeting like that makes sense we may have a meeting in early January that would do the same thing so that will basically finish the board review process much earlier in January to give the board time to make changes and constantly you want things to look the end of January still the deadline for making final decisions but this just kind of front loads the review process a little bit earlier we're also separate from that we're looking at various mechanisms to increase public interest, increase public participation we have a bunch of ideas whether we can do them all the first year remains to be seen probably not but we can do some of them and I've asked Eric to come up media specialists to work on that so that's thanks a lot is there any other business we need to talk about tonight see no hands raised then I'll say we are adjourned