 Hello everyone and welcome back to for the minions episode 42 We got a lot to discuss this week a whole lot to discuss mainly about predecessor and ethereal But I am your host the man goose joining me as always is the incorrigible Mandy Mal. Hey, you know Mandy I was waiting. I was wondering what adjective you were gonna use this week to describe me Well, I like it. Thank you. I'm just gonna take everything you say as a compliment from now on I'm doing so well, and we have another fabulous guest host this week. We have a jelly knees. How are you? I'm really good. I'm excited to be here guys. Oh, we're excited to have you So you can start off by telling us how you got started with Paragon your favorite character all that good stuff. So Oh goodness Paragon I think I started in the pre alpha days. So it just I saw it somewhere I think it was on reddit someone made some post about it And so naturally I looked into it and then was following the game die hard up until the end so it's really really is very close to me and I I What are the word I'm looking for here? I'm blanking I Auditioned that's not the right word. I keep thinking of that, but I Practiced with a couple of the the pro teams that were Up for a while trying to go toward that end right toward the end of the game's life tried out for the protein There you go try outs. That's the word. I'm looking for Audition is close. Audition is close. Yeah, I'm an off-lane player hundred percent. Whoo. Yeah, absolute favorites had to be Kalari die hard Kalari Kalari had a lot of fans a lot of fans with the Everybody hated her. That's the crazy thing Well always feel bad for guys like you that I'm sure you played her way You know like in the in the if you I mean if you play in the pre alpha Then you were playing her for a very long time And then they came along and did the the version 43 is one that she got the huge buffs And just was anybody could destroy with Kalari Yeah, I felt so bad for the people that worked so hard to master just to see When they when they changed her I was real I was sitting there like okay, but why like we didn't need any of this I was doing perfectly fine with her without any of this. Yeah, though She was a very high-risk how reward character and they took out the risk and increase the reward But oh well, wow so you played back all the way in the pre alpha. That's that's awesome. That's a that's a rarity Yeah, it was it was I've never played a game like it and still to this day And that's why we're that's why we're here doing all of this stuff about the reworks and the games that are Trying to take the man the torch that Paragon had and pass it along and pass it to other people that can enjoy these games Well, I'm certainly happy to have you on the show. Um We've shouted you out before because you did a really great video on ethereal and I've been looking forward to this all week I'm a big jelly knees fan. So let's move on now to Move on now to the news and updates starting with ethereal whole shit low going on with ethereal The website dropped finally and there was so much information on there I went over a lot of it in a in a standalone video. You guys can check that out if you want to but oh man started out with atropos I Have gotten some clarity since that video on atropos The atropos is kind of like that are or prime or whatever they Do you guys know what they call it in smite and lull and all that stuff? I don't in a league They call it baron. Okay, so it'd be like a baron in league then and and But they got their own weird little twist on it. It's a three phase encounter He starts out like about the same size as a myth Then he gets a little bigger as you as you push his HP down He has HP thresholds. So, you know take enough health off of him He gets a little bit bigger goes in the phase to and then even more health and he gets freaking huge bus The arena that he's in and he just he's absolutely massive starts flying around and he gets little targets all over his body And if you hit those targets with a couple basic attacks or an ability then um He'll take a whole bunch of extra damage, but he goes into a fury and deals extra damage to your team Jelly knees. What do you think of atropos and all their plans for this guy? I'm super excited for him. Just the phases thing sounds interesting and from what we were talking about in their discord I know they said that it sounds like they're gonna be Separate entities that you can take one phase and go back to lane and then come back for the second phase later on When you're stronger more powerful and then come back for the third phase as a team when you decide to take that objective Unless you wipe if you wipe then he just completely resets. Yeah And what is it what takes wiping? What is that it entail? That's when you take tissue in your hand. No, it's when your whole team dies to the oh Okay, I forget that you've never played like MMOs and stuff like Warcraft Yeah, white white man the term when your whole team dies. That's that's a white Everybody's wiped from existence Another interesting little tidbit that I'd missed They say that you can go for him as soon as the game starts like if you if you have an aggressive team Which says to me that a lot of his abilities will be you'll be able to dodge them It'll just take a lot of skills Which also says to me that he will be so lovable if if an entire team could take him at the beginning Of a fight then it shouldn't be that hard for one person the solo and if it's all if all of it is It's just a bunch of dodging and stuff. So But wait, I took it at least On their website was that the first phase for sure you could do solo if you were strong enough and Second phase would take maybe one or two people and but third phase would require the whole team. Okay. Okay Yeah, that makes sense then that makes a lot more sense to me Maybe what are your thoughts? What are you thinking about? You don't like it It's it's not that I don't like it It just seems very very difficult and intimidating to me as someone who is I I'm gonna say new to MOBA still as Paragon was my first and I haven't played many since then like it's almost like Ethereal is doing everything a MOBA does and taking it a step beyond so this seems logical for Ethereals or prime Baron whatever you want to call it It seems like that's exactly what I would expect them to do is take it a step above what Paragon did But man that seems difficult like it seems intimidating to me like the you definitely have to be on point with like dodging and Attacking and the targets and things like that. So it seems it it's intimidating to me at least I don't I don't think I'll be soloing Attrapods anytime soon. I think that was kind of their goal though. It was the making me intimidating Yeah, and they I think nailed it They achieved their goal. Yes Let's move on now and talk about the class Abilities they're not calling them passives because they're not passive abilities most of them are not passive at all some of them are kind of include passives, but We already knew about the reapers the berserkers and the sky slayers the flying the parkour and the busting down terrain a couple of them that we didn't know about archmage and the archmage ability is Teleportation runes they could put a rune on the ground that they could teleport back to Didn't get much clarification on this as the far as far as how that's going to work Like what the range is on them how many they can have up and if other people can take those teleportation ones But I think that's a cool ability for a mage mages often need an escape They're also there. They're usually glass cannons if unless you you know build them to to be a little more sustainable So I think that gives you a little more options and definitely some outplay options if you can use those teleportation runes to your advantage Maybe what do you think about teleportation runes for mages? I like it. I liked it Whenever I read about it on the website. I thought it seemed like a good fit I did wonder like you said is it only for them or is it going to be like Gideon's? Warp where you could you know your teammates could jump in it as well. So that's something I'll be looking forward to them clearing up I'm sure they will You know kind of elaborate on that at some point But yeah, like you said, I think it's a great idea for a mage. It's a good fit And it sounds good. I think it's it's also a good fit for the layout of the map You know, it sounds like it'll be easy to get from one Layer to the next if need be or like you said escape from one to the to the other Jelly, what's your thoughts man? Yeah, I think the teleportation runes depending on the range, of course offer up a huge Area for new paths to go from other places So for specifically junglers, right that you can gank in different ways because of these teleportation runes if they were set up in a Cool or interesting way either from level to level or just behind the enemy And so you can you can come up with some new paths that you couldn't do just by having to walk there It would certainly make a rotation from mid lane a lot less difficult because you could Know rotate over do what you need to help help the duo lane I mean even if that's going to be a thing in a theory We don't even know But in Paragon a teleportation rune like that would be very beneficial because you could rotate Take them out and then be back in time to clear out your minion waves and not lose any Gold or XP, so I think it'd be very beneficial in that scenario. I Wonder also if they will be visible to the enemy team and will they be able to be destroyed like a ward is or was That's an interesting idea. I didn't think of that. Yeah And it's interesting that they're not putting it on a support class I don't consider the argument just to be a support class at all. They're putting it on a carry and so it's It's not something that you necessarily need to have assuming you can run other things in the mid And what we assume is going to be mid lane characters But it would be super helpful for everybody on your team not just the duo lane or wherever the support support would be Yeah, that would be nice for a support wouldn't it might be a little too overpowered for support though If they could support several different lanes by rotating with the With the sigils in between them. I Don't know. There's so many so many mysteries so many mysteries with a theory. We just don't know and we always get maybe is the answer So what's some of the other ones we hadn't covered yet the clerics We didn't thought we've never never they never revealed the clerics speaking of the support and it's going to be a theory and path I think it's what they called they'll be able to pledge their fealty to an aetherian one of six there's six aetherians in the game And uh, it just gives them some extra passives and bonuses and stuff. We don't know what those are I'm assuming stuff like mana regen health regen or like you know supporty stuff so And uh, you pick it at the beginning of the game and then you're locked in for the rest of the game I think that gives you a lot of Counter build potential for um to shut down certain types of comps if you need, you know Whatever you need. I don't know what they're going to provide but I imagine with six different choices. It's going to open up some possibilities What do you think about that one Mandy? I mean you've been hyped up about the clerics Yeah, pretty much uh when I was going over the website pretty much every character that I'm already like kind of pumped to play is a cleric So it looks like I'll be naming a cleric Some which one I don't know yet, but I I'm so excited for grace nicolai and marina. So I gotta I gotta decide which one but yeah I'm uh, I'm interested to learn more of the details of that since it sounds like I will be or it looks like I will be playing cleric um I'll be interested to learn more more of the finite details of how that's gonna work And the abilities hopefully they've released some of the ability soon. So then you have a much better understanding of who you want to play Yeah, exactly Jillian easy any thoughts on the on the cleric Like Mandy said, I'm interested to see what the each path actually benefits toward the clerics And like you said if it's health regen or mana regen or Gold increase over time or something like that Having six of them is a lot. It seems like granted We don't know what the resources that they're going to be using in the game are quite yet That's true, too. Yeah, but so it seems like a lot of them And I'd be very nervous that one would overpower the rest. Yeah as of that diversity So like gold would be beyond strong if they were giving you a higher gold or higher gold accumulation In comparison, I would think unless they're drastic differences Yeah, no matter where the way you cut however you cut it there's going to be one. That's kind of like the go-to for every situation Y'all around pick. Yeah I think that's fine as long as there are niche situations where the other ones are good Maybe against certain um certain myths Who knows like this is all conjecture at this point. We do not know anything at this time, but uh, whatever Next up is the night class. There's there's this kind of similar a little bit, but they pick a um Ah, do you remember what they called it? Relic quest maybe relic. Yeah something It wasn't quest, but it was relic relic hunt. That's what it was relic hunt. I got to be careful how fast Be a little careful there But it's a mr. Mike hunt. Um The relic hunt what it's going to be is you pick it at the beginning just like you do with the aetherian path But it's kind of a questing ability that you have to complete you have to perform various tasks to complete And once you do that you unlock Some actives and passives for for your night. Um, it's going to be the same across the board It's not going to be ability base. So asheron would have the same relic hunt as Talos but It's it's another one. I think offers some counter pick They didn't see how many relics you'd be able to hunt probably six. I would imagine it's going to be six What do you think jelly? That would make sense based on the aetherian paths that they're going to do a relic for each aetherian So it would it would kind of make sense to have those coincide with each other Yeah, that'd be cool. What do you think about the night's mandy? Sounds good. Um, it's not a class. I'm super interested in so it's not one that I paid a lot of attention to unfortunately um, but yeah, I it it's like I was saying before the the way aetherial is going about like Making this new and exciting they're they've just gone above and beyond to really innovate. I think the MOBA genre So yeah, that sounds really exciting Let's also talk about somebody was comparing asheron to gravestone like no Asheron's way cooler because He's got a beard And gravestone did not he had that baby face He did look like jamey lannister with his space night skin I chased the night He used to call him the space nazi and I probably shouldn't Uh, so who did we what what class did we not cover overseers nothing on overseers. We didn't get anything on overseers Uh, you guys Oh, yeah, we didn't yet. You're right the the new marksman. Oh, I didn't like it at all. Um All it is is you mark somebody and then that that person takes extra damage from the marksman I don't know if you mark them at the beginning of the game or if it's something you can transfer I assume it would be something you would transfer kind of like a hunter's mark or whatever, but uh It just seems very lackluster compared to the rest of the class Abilities that they've come up with they seem to be blowing the lid off of everything And then you get this marksman pretty basic marksman passive really Jelly knees. What do you think man? I agree with you completely that it seems really basic in comparison to everything else Uh, and it it would have to be something you would switch I would imagine because if you put it on one person Why not just give you a direct boost to attacking that person anyway? Yeah If you're always going to put it on the enemy marksman because they're going to be the carry in most cases And what's the point of having it? Yeah And then if they knew they had the mark on them they could just build armor against the carry and then Maybe what are your thoughts on the marksman? I don't hate it guys. I don't hate it. No I'm gonna I'm gonna stand apart from the crowd here and say it's cool I uh because I marksman is the other one that I'm interested in And uh, that sounds like something I'm down to to be able to I I didn't think about how you worded it as far as like It is a little bit Lackluster compared to some of the others, but like I said, I don't hate it. I think it's cool. I'm excited to use it Um, and I think it'll be transferable. I think it'll be like If you're in a team fight, you can maybe pick A certain a certain myth that uh You can then take a deal more damage too. So I I like it. I don't hate it I'm not mad at it a lot of my subs were suggesting um There was a lot of suggestions, but a lot of quite a few of them sort of steered towards the same path which was giving all marksmen a passive kind of like sparrows passive where Um, you know, the more you hit somebody the more damage you do to them So successive hits would deal more damage. Some people said like, you know, maybe every third attack or something like that But it equates to the same thing rewarding Good aim with more damage, which I think is a better path to go with that instead of just giving you flat damage For putting a mark on somebody. Um, somebody else suggested that They get more damage for hitting like exposed flesh or something That would probably be a little too hard But I think like headshots if they could do headshots in the game and give you and reward you for headshots I think that would be amazing because I was always trying to Pop off head when I first started playing paragon I was trying to go for headshots all the time because I thought it would give me extra damage for whatever reason It did not It doesn't whenever you play so many other games where headshots are like what you do Then you get in the paragon you get nothing you get nothing for a headshot You might as well shoot him in the kneecap shoot him in the toe same damage But I think a headshot like just a passive they get extra damage from headshots Like maybe a extra 10 for headshots would be cool And then what would you guys think about maybe doing a crit chance kind of passive Either have a better chance of critting or when they do crit it does more damage so put What do you call that when it's uh extra damage to your crits? Uh, I forget what you call it. It was all so many items in paragon But yeah, I yeah crit bonus There you go. Yeah So they'd have a crit bonus on their crit damage. Yeah, it'd be kind of cool. That'd be kind of cool A lot of people have a lot of problems with crit because it's such an r and g sort of thing But uh, I think it's necessary. I think it's needed. So yeah, absolutely I like it And it keeps the game exciting at the same time Yeah, if you're constantly doing the same amount of damage, you know exactly how it long it's going to take and whether or not Fights aren't as interesting whereas a random crit Takes the full health person down to quarter health and makes them nervous for a second where you have to Adjust to everything that's going on Yeah, that's true She doesn't like seeing that crit number pop up. Yeah, it's always like a different like man that makes you feel like a bad ass Even though you didn't do anything. Yeah, I don't think you would anyway. Yeah Um, some of the other Class abilities that we'll go over that we already kind of knew about there was a little bit of clarification came out of the website though berserkers Um able to smash down Trees and rocks and stuff. Uh, they said that they'll be able to create bridges with them I think that's pretty self-explanatory why that's good Maybe anything to add to that I think it's cool Jelly knees anything Yeah, no that sounds good. Yeah, um Then the same same thing with reapers, uh, the parkour thing they'll be able to run around They'll be able to climb up trees and climb over rocks to get into lane and stuff like that Which uh, we already kind of knew about we didn't what we didn't know about There's a stamina bar associated with it. So they can't just climb endlessly Which I assume they wouldn't be able to just climb endlessly So another pretty self-explanatory one you just come over a rock and gank somebody or you run up a tree Wait for everybody to run below you and they drop down on them something like that. So Pretty good all around. Uh, you guys got anything on that one? I mean, it sounds like to me and correct me if I'm wrong aren't these also some answers to Uh questions that people had about the mobility of the game with the lane differences and stuff Like is that a way to get around? Better as well. It seems like it. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was assuming Just a little bit sure and Go ahead. Hold it. Hold it. Hold it. Hold it. Hold it. Go ahead jelly It'll be interesting to see How large that stamina bar is because I think I feel like that's something they're gonna have to tweak very carefully Because if you make it too large, they can get around too much but too little and they won't go anywhere So it's there's gonna be some finagling there around to figure out about where that bar sits And how long it takes yeah, yeah big time balancing there And then the the sky slayer is the whole the whole flying thing Um, something I picked out is it says that you channel the ability you channel your energy to fly and I think that Kind of signifies that you won't be able to do anything else While you're flying because channeling in any other game whether it be MOBA Or uh mmo, whatever whenever you're channeling an ability you aren't able to do anything else So I think that Kind of that would that would definitely balance things out. I haven't been able to get them to confirm or deny anything Owen just gave me that One of his stupid gifts whenever I asked him about it The whole maybe thing but Yeah, they won't confirm or deny that but that would clear up a lot of people's concerns was that sky slayers would be able to T off on a melee character without any repercussions whatsoever But if they're not allowed to if it's only a movement thing They're only allowed to you know move better around the map and I think that's pretty balanced mm-hmm Yeah, I completely agree that it's it's just a mobility and opening new pathways rather than giving you a significant advantage damage wise over somebody else Yeah, yeah, it would almost have to be because what is a melee character going to do, you know Against the flying reefer they'll just run up a tree and attack Which would be bad ass Would be cool Yeah, I could imagine that happening Reapers running up to take some sky slayers out of the air. Can you imagine some of the highlights from this game? We're gonna be Like a sky slayers flying through and all of a sudden a tree falls down and a run comes running up that set of a bitch and smashes them Oh, man And I think that's it for the class actives and passives the They talked a little bit about the universe and the lore all the different areas of ethereal Really cool stuff. I know a lot of people aren't that in the lore So I ain't gonna deep dive into it or anything right here. So Mandy especially doesn't give a shit. I know she didn't read any of it. I didn't read it Did you read any of it jelly? I did I went through most of them right already. Oh really right on I love little stuff like that just understanding The character's background from where they came from and about the character themselves. I think is super cool. So Good good A lot of people do care about that stuff because they just like to know about the the the hero They like to be able to quote it like somebody says Oh, this person was this they like to be able to just tell you like Oh, why is xx you'll actually you'll have two voices. Oh, well, this is why he has two voices, you know People love being able to do that Including me and the voice lines they released two voice lines this week the first being Nikolai the second being xx you'll and we'll go ahead and listen to those right now Who's got two metal thumbs and lots of pizzazz this guy? Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. You got a problem Blood force he was one force The eyes i'm going for the eyes I did what you said now what on to the next Was that the right thing to do don't ask questions. You don't want the answers to Diplomacy how boring and slow What what have I done? He's just another enemy now All right, so what'd you guys think would you guys think of Nikolai? Would you think of xx you'll let's start with Nikolai maddy. He's your boy. What do you think? He is my boy. Um, I have to say I'm really really pleased with him I Kind of expected and was worried that they were going to go the real high pitched cartoony goofy Um route with him because he's a cute little fuzzy thing But they didn't and I love it. I think it's just way more appealing to me It made him more appealing to me I think I even see uh saw some comments that said the same thing. They were glad that they didn't go that route Um, so that's really cool. I love that you can really tell a lot. Well, not a lot, but you can tell That his abilities are music based or sound based or whatever by The clues that he's giving in his in his voice lines and stuff. So I I uh, I liked him I thought he was still very adorable. Um, but very well done very well done Jilly, what'd you think of Nikolai? I completely agree with mandy on this one that he I'm glad I didn't do the high pitched voice because that seems cliche at this point You see a small fuzzy character and you get a high pitched voice to accompany it every single time So not hearing that was like, oh, okay. We're taking this seriously. Okay, sure. Yeah, what's going on? So and and his personality shines through the voice line so well all of them I really feel that way like it's you can really tell what they were going for with that character Have you guys ever heard howitzer's voice lines? No, I'll see if I can have I'll see if I can dig them up. They're terrible. They are high pitched and squealy like Oh, no, howitzer did not look high pitched and squealy yet. I'm fucking cigar in his mouth. He was smoking a cigar in a Mech suit full of grenades and rockets It's not going to have a squealy voice. Come on Come on. Come on And uh xl what'd you guys think of xl uh jelly jelly knees? What'd you think of xl? I was about to call you jelly beans Jelly beans. All right, whatever Honestly, I loved every moment of xl's voice lines The duality of him just the back and forth between the brothers You felt like they were brothers not that they were enemies or any kind like it was kind of like bickering Like you'd see with siblings in those voice lines. You I really felt that in between and I love to see being able to see Is the shadow I can't think of what it's called the shadow shade, thank you and Being able to see that makes me excited for the game to be like, okay. How is that going to come in? When am I going to see that? What is that going to entail? So it's got like they're like little easter eggs that they're putting in there to keep us hyped up for the game Mandy, what'd you think xl? Well, you guys saw me listening to him and I just looked confused listening to it um And I don't know what I think because I don't dislike it, but it just I guess it wasn't what I was expecting But I don't know what I was really expecting. I don't know how it's different from that um He's hot. I mean The important thing he is I mean he's a handsome young man Priorities here. We're gonna get that just straight I will say I read his lore a while back and You know how when you read something you assign your own voice to it in your head My my my voice for shade was more like smeagol than So like he was like starting out the game like I was expecting something like he would be like All right, let's everybody do our best and like and if they don't we will kill them, you know That's not how they went and I'm fine with that You know, yeah, I definitely like preconceived notions doesn't mean I don't like the voice lines I like the way he sounds a lot more strong and powerful that way Yeah, I like the way they did it better than your version What my version was awesome. I don't know what you're talking about And final thing for ethereal they've been communicating a lot via youtube posts um I don't know if you guys Have seen these I'll do quite a few of them if you've been on the poll results You've seen a youtube post but uh, I think it's a good way for them to just communicate little blurbs out Not everybody wants to hang out on discord and not everybody wants to turn on their notifications So they hear everything from every discord channel. So I think the youtube, um Posts are a good way to get around that get that information out to those who Want to see it and and uh, but don't want to hang out in discord. So Just my thoughts on that you guys have any any extra thoughts on the youtube posts I think it's a really smart idea by them In that they know where their audience is Because that you can follow a group on facebook or instagram or twitter and not follow any of those things actively that you don't go on those sites In discord, like you said notifications sometimes just gets to be too much You have to turn them off But if you open up youtube and you see one of these messages from them, you're like, oh, okay, they're active They're doing something that's something. I think they're going to interact with more people more often So it makes sense to me. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I agree on their part I wonder if bacon had anything to do with that But uh, that's going to be it for ethereal for this week We're going to move on to omeda studios that uh fringe was streaming this week and something interesting that I think uh Well, a lot of people will love is that he was specifically looking at old legacy footage and attempting to match the colors Of the old legacy map to his current iteration of the predecessor map Which just shows their devotion towards bringing that legacy feeling back Maybe not, you know, completely in gameplay, but at least in the aesthetics They're really they're really doing it up and trying that are their best I think a lot of people are going to be psyched about that. Um jelly knees you played in the in the alpha. What do you think about them trying to go with a more legacy feel? I loved legacy and and granted the Be 43 of the map. I can't think of what it's called naturally Um monolith monolith. Thank you. Goodness. I'm blanking on everything today But so I loved legacy over monolith 100 percent. I was a diehard legacy fan And so I'm happy to see them going more toward that end Because I love I would love to relive the map that I fell in love with originally. Yeah. So that's my favorite thing about that I 100 percent agree Mandy any thoughts It's hard for me to have an opinion because I didn't play on legacy But I'm not I'm not mad about it. I'm I trust Fringe I trust everybody over there at omita that they are making the best decisions. So I'm down for it right on The other thing that fringe was adding in was a real-time post-processing which just allow you to Uh adjust the look of the game to your liking even so if you didn't like the Legacy look of the map. Uh, you just like hue and saturation and stuff Something I think they kind of overlooked but I I brought it up to smoky is that that will help people with color blindness Because a lot of people can't you know, they have to go with that orange Sort of motif whenever they're colorblind and they'll be able to do that themselves Then that'll be a preset that they can carry forward with their game going forward So just a nice quality of life improvement to predecessor Any any thoughts on that Probably not many I wouldn't think yeah, it was like a great idea. I mean, it's just a good thing Here's something we're going to have some some some thoughts on though This question I think we've discussed it before but it got brought up in the stream And I wanted to go over it again They were asked if prime dunking mechanic would be back in predecessor answers No, they are not going to they're not going to bring the prime dunking back and they feel that that was uh That was a problem in legacy that needed to be removed. So, uh Jelly knees, I know you got some some some thoughts on this I really do I don't think dunking was all that bad and hear me out on this and I'm coming from a purely Kind of more definitely a more professional viewpoint of this Is that once you got into kind of a draft pick system? Muriel was a choice for that reason There's you're picking muriel to get prime dunk. There were better supports than muriel in the in paragon She wasn't the end all be all so you're picking her for that choice And then you know that the end of the team that has the muriel has to play around that That they have to have someone for her to jump to so they're taking orb prime with less people And You can capitalize as an enemy team either five man five v four Or go kill the single guy and now they can't do that the orb dunk So it's one of those things I felt like there was enough counterplay to it that if adjusted. Well, you could do it well That I didn't just need to be outright strike struck from the game. Yeah, I know a lot of people disagree with me on this Mandy what you never really played with dunking, but what do you what do you think about having to Take that orb you you fought the orb prime before what do you think about killing him and then having to Drag his buff across the map Yeah, it sounds tedious. It sounds uh intimidating um But I don't know I'm I guess I'm a little bit surprised because they're going for such a legacy feel I'm surprised that they wouldn't want to go ahead and include that because I I have heard I've definitely heard people who don't like dunking, but I've heard a lot of people who do who did enjoy it Who share jelly knees opinion? So I guess I'm a little bit surprised, but I don't have a personal opinion on it since I again It's not something I experienced. So I don't know what I'm missing. Unfortunately I I like dunking. I really did did enjoy dunking. I enjoyed offensive dunking when they introduced defensive dunking where you can Respawn all of your inhibitors and extend the game by another half Hour to an hour. I didn't like that at all. It just erased your progress. It didn't feel good I mean I had maybe one game where we defensive dunked and then ended up coming back and winning But usually the other team is just already so far ahead in In gold and and they're beating the shit out of you Anyway, that all you're doing is delaying the inevitable. So I hated defensive dunking. I loved offensive dunking I enjoyed the that you didn't get that buff right away that somebody got the buff right away But um in order the whole team to get the buff you had to work together and get it into that it turned into a game of um The American Gladiators trash ball or the Throw the ball into the trash can I loved it. I really enjoyed it. But yeah, I didn't like the defensive If they if they could if they could put it back in without the defensive stuff I would be all for it. I can see why they removed it Um, I think this is going to be uh, this is going to be a discussion point for a lot of people We're going to see some comments going either way I agree And finally for Omeda they're work reworking how um their field of vision Works right now. I didn't even notice this when we played Um, their vision works in a circle around you if any enemy is in that circle around you Then they're counted as being seen and they would show up on your mini map They didn't have the mini map and whenever we played but uh, they would show up on the mini map and members of your team would be able to see them to the silhouette so I mean, it doesn't shouldn't really work that way if they're behind you But in that circle, they shouldn't count as being seen. I don't think and uh, Smokey recognizes this and they're going to go ahead and change that To make it to where you have to actually physically see someone for them to count as being seen and show up on the mini map And show up to to your team and then once they exit that that area if they go out of sight for a little bit Timer starts and if they're not seen For like, you know, whatever how many two three seconds then they disappear from the mini map And then as soon as they come back into being seen They're that you can see them again So another thing that I think is just all around a great thing that they're doing and really I don't think anybody would complain about it. Do you guys have any complaints about The fix to the field of vision Not at all The one thing I would say is they just need to make sure not put it On the eyes of the hero they need to put it slightly behind basically everything you can see on screen Should be visible on the mini map. Yeah, it's good. I don't know how they're going to do it But yeah, that that makes a lot of sense right there because they very well could do it with the eyes of the hero and That would cause some confusion But yeah, I think that is it unless you guys have anything else to say about uh, ethereal or uh, or predecessor I'm good. I'm just excited Cool beans. All right. We had nothing for made above and nothing for a phoenix rising So let's move on to the poll results and it's the uh, the first What was it was the first monday of the month is I always do these on mondays And uh, it was the old hype poll bringing that back again and uh This time we had core at 19 percent predecessor at 23 ethereal at 55 and phoenix rising at two so About the same as it was last time really So not much change there ethereal. They I mean they they picked up steam and they're really um They're really staying staying staying ahead. I think they started out when I first started this poll They were dead last and now they're they're all the way up there Sailing in first so what do you guys think about the the the poll and the numbers here? Is any of them surprise you at all? None of them really surprised me. Um, I'm really excited that ethereal is picking up so much steam I think it's well deserved Um, and like I've said before I love that there are the phoenix rising fans that are hanging in there consistently every poll And voting for phoenix rising. So I love it jelly knees anything it shows to me exactly what we're seeing the ethereal's picking up steam and so they're naturally the most ahead they have the most common updates You're seeing things come from them more often with the voice lines and all that so it makes sense that they're Like that and predecessor there behind them is is doing dev streams and constantly updating their community about what's going on Or we haven't heard anything recently. So it makes sense. They're kind of falling behind where I know six months ago They were the number one spot because they were having updates So you see that and then phoenix rising like you said mandy nice to see that there are fans out there diehards for phoenix rising Yes, and again, there was 1.2k Um vote so it's not that wasn't two people Yeah, that wasn't just two people voting for phoenix rising. That was that was that was quite a bit more I can't do math, but um, I'm a little surprised that predecessor isn't a little Further up Because they are very close to finishing and their their game looks absolutely great And I think here here's a here's a big big big win in the predecessor column. I've played predecessor I haven't played any of the rest of these games Like I have been in recently too like a month ago. Maybe you played like two weeks ago played two weeks ago. Yeah So that's uh, that's actually an excellent point. I was I meant to say that that i'm surprised that predecessor isn't a little higher. Um Because it's like people are forgetting or or not noticing how much work they're really doing all the time So I am I am surprised that predecessor isn't higher But I I'm also very biased. I you know, everybody knows predecessor is my favorite So it's number one in my height pole in my heart But uh, but yeah, uh, you're you're a hundred percent right It's it's the only one that has produced a playable version thus far. So That's something to be excited about A problem I've seen from the very start is people who still get core and predecessor mixed up They think they're the same game And they just say it's anything anything bad that happens with predecessor. They Think that core did bad if something bad happens with core. They think predecessor did bad vice versa. They think what uh, yeah eventually that'll all come out in the wash, but like, uh Uh, who was I telling I was telling somebody I said when when predecessor comes out somebody's gonna be like Somebody told me core died and here's the game right here. Yeah That's not core It's not core Yeah, hopefully we get something from core here pretty soon There's been some rumblings from them, but I'm not going to really report on anything until I have something concrete from those guys that can show you but that's it for the poll results now we're going to move on to the highlight reel and uh I don't usually put my own clips in the highlight reel, but I didn't feel support So we're getting the the respect they deserve. So I'll put one of my decker clips in there There's actually two of my decker clips in there Because the other one was from a friend that I just happened to be in his clip, but anyway Um, I hope you guys enjoy the highlight reel and uh, if you have any highlights to send me go ahead and do so Just let me know if you don't know how to do it and I'll I'll teach you how So let's check those out Joel pal the mangoo's here with a rare clip of myself Don't put myself in the channel too much or chai mera We have no idea where the enemy team is chai mera pushes all the way up into the right lane and finds The entire enemy team now. He's bucking it for all he's worth trying to get away I'm going to try and meet him at the pass the enemy team is hot on his trail They're coming in after him throw down the containment fence and you could just see the confusion on their faces as they're blocked off Chai mera spans things and walks away. The moral of the story is you can do whatever dumb shit you want As long as your support is on it This clip from a friend jay starts out with morguez getting batted under the tower and annihilated red team Is going to try and back up but the containment fence stacks them all up Steel comes in with the shield slam cosmic duke and a ball rush and two members down just like that Rampage trying to get away gets rooted gets under the tower But a stasis bomb holds him in place the blue team is able to wipe up the kill Got corrupt content play and giddy and he's watching this red team push forward looking for the moment Look for his vantage point jumps off the top rope lands the black hole. He's got three of them trapped in there They're gonna make short work of one But now it's uh the other giddy and inexplicably uses his ult gets melted for it And sparrow has no idea how close giddy is here comes crunch to help out space turd lands on her head takes her out That's a triple kill All right guys, I hope you enjoyed those highlights But it's time for the topic for discussion if the top of our discussion this week is overpowered heroes All kinds of different ways that they're overpowered. Um I was talking to the jelly knees a little bit about different topics for this week A hit on this one. We started to talk about it And we just immediately started off with like a whole just a lot of back and forth on this I was like, there we go. There's our topic for discussion. So overpowered heroes jelly knees you kind of Hit on Hitting on a little bit with muriel being like such a great pick for carrying or prime So this is just just flat out overpowered but heroes that are Picked specifically for something that they're very overpowered at which I think um I think ethereal might be a good a good candidate for something that they really need to watch out for that for because There might be somebody that's extremely good at one thing in their in their game and Just be an auto include pick for that Mandy you brought up a lot of a good info when you were talking about genesis You were talking about the what was the one archer guy Apollo yeah, I followed just picked in every single game every every single game had two apollos that that's not good. That's That needs to be handled as soon as possible So let's get into overpowered heroes. Let's start with jelly knees. What do you got? What do you got to say, man? So we talked about it a little bit but wukong and paragon. Oh, yeah, just a problem And all and there was no good way to balance him. It was the way he was created He was either overpowered or useless A lot of the time and that he had he could walk on air which was very strong And made him a very dominant pick when he first came out But then his ultimate basically just destroyed everything Not just other heroes Powers inhibitors the whole nine yards everything didn't stand a chance if he got his ultimate off and was at all ahead And so it was just ridiculous And there's you have to be you have to take that you have to take balance into consideration When you're creating a hero or a myth or whatever you want to call them in the varying games You have to take that. How are we going to balance this if it's too strong or too weak in the future? Yeah, they need to they need to give everything a volume knob They could turn up and down and he didn't have a volume knob. It was either 11 or 0 with That was Wukong Okay You know the well I think the only thing that would have made him more overpowered was to give him a way that he could gain a gold advantage On everybody else and put himself even further ahead. Yeah. Oh wait, he did have that. Oh my god At least he didn't have a stun though, right? Oh wait a second For fucking wukong a lot of people loved wukong and I get it it's fun to play the overpowered guy and just Ignore team fights and push a lane all the way down and win the game. I mean he was so Broken that they had to remove him. Oh For a long time too. Mandy. What do you got to say you got any examples? um, well like I was saying or like you had said that I'm saying about apollo in, um Genesis now, I don't know if that's still the case. I haven't been keeping up with Genesis. Yeah, nobody has Yeah, I haven't been playing it up immediately So, uh, I don't know if that's still the case, but it just seemed like he was the In every single game every team picked him and he was like just crazy At I mean shredding the towers. He could take down enemies like nothing So he was one that I kind of identified right away that in my personal opinion. I thought he was overpowered I'm sure there's people who disagree with me um, but uh I have to say I worry a little bit about ethereal and balance like and I think it's just because it's so it's a new concept And it's all from scratch and it's doing all these new things that we've never really seen done before I worry a lot about how they're going to balance. Um, not not only overpowered characters But just the whole atmosphere of the game. Um, some of the different elements of the game So that's going to be really interesting to see I don't doubt they can do it. I think they can do it I think it's just going to be a process. Um, so um even like the Atropos is that op though like to be that hard to Take down is it or isn't it like I don't know that's that was my whole thing Yeah, like a map like a map objective being a little overpowered to op. Yeah like I don't know that seems like something they could they could tune though easily Just by adjusting the damage numbers that he deals Or just in his his health points or something like that I think a good example, um In paragon of just damage numbers Um, how they just a slight tune in the damage numbers can render a hero op with sarah During her three weeks of dominance. Um, yeah, I thought she was fine I thought her damage was about at an eight And then for whatever reason they cranked it up to a 10 And then for hashtag every three weeks Every single game was decided by who had the better sarah player because she just did Monstrous amounts of damage. I remember sylvan did the breakdown and she was like It was over a thousand damage per second or some shit on sarah that she was capable of and nobody else Could even really come near that it was just touching that absolutely insane but And I think three weeks was too long. I think you can identify that a hero is way too overpowered Faster than that sometimes you got it like a new hero You've got to give it some time give people some time to adjust to figure out how to counter that hero But if a hero is already in the game you tweak the numbers a little bit and all of a sudden they go from like I don't know like a 48% win rate to like a 70% win rate and that's just Too much and you need that needs to be addressed immediately and I think that's uh That's kind of part of our topic for discussion today is how to the handle the the overpowered heroes And I think quickly is Probably the best answer But uh, but how quickly though because like I said It can't just be um the players themselves not being able to adjust to it So if you if you tune them too fast, then they never get that time to shine People never figure out how to counteract them and then they're always just a little lackluster So I don't know. It's a it's a tough thing then like you said, maybe ethereal is probably going to have the The hardest job out of everybody Yeah, I I always Tried to be a little understanding when it comes to balancing because it's not an easy task Like you said, there's so many factors to consider. Is it just player ability or is it You know, how much do we need to adjust said thing? Um There's just so much to consider. So I don't envy the position they're in Um, even paragon, you know, they made some bad decisions, but I think it was still a difficult job to do uh, regardless of You know, how much they mucked it up. It was it's a difficult thing to do. So And to kind of echo what I said earlier and piggybacking off of ethereal that you guys were talking about is The classes in ethereal make it very interesting but also pose the biggest threat I think it's a gameplay in that one class could just rise above the rest Sky Slayer for instance if flying becomes such a thing That you need it every game or you're going to lose That does that defeats the purpose of having all the other classes such thing you're only doing When you're only allowed so many of each kind in each game, you know what I mean Yeah, if you have to pick a sky slayer for every game, I think yeah, you're absolutely right that just Why why even have the option for the other classes then And the thing I will say about Ethereal toward that end as well kind of defending them is look thinking about it They've built at least from what we can see with the classes They've built each one to be tunable. Like you said, there's a knob that you can dial slightly up or down That with sky slayers. Okay. How long does it take the channel? How long can they fly? What can they do while they fly Are all things they can manipulate or the reapers how long can they climb versus how how short is it Each each class has their own thing that they can lengthen or shorten or change values in From what we know so far that could help the balance end of that right Yeah, it sounds like they're really on the right track so far with You know the agility bar that is connected to the being able to climb and the channeling with the With the flying and things like that. So it sounds like they already It sounds like on paper They already had this all figured out like this is going to need to be tuned here This we're going to you know play with the numbers here and there. So Um, I like I said, I don't doubt they can do it. Um, but it's still going to be a tremendous amount of work There there's outside factors outside of the heroes that they could tune as well Like if the if the sky slayers are a little too overpowered they could just dial back how much Um gold and experiences gained by from the sky jungle They could just tune that back a little bit and that would make all sky slayers across the board a little less powerful If that was a problem I mean if it's just one sky slayer then they can just Tune what their stamina is and what what have you It's all about the tuning knobs Yeah And Predecessor, I mean they they've got ace on their side a lot of people like to talk shit about ace But he's a smart dude that knew uh Way more about paragon than I ever Thought that he knew like I thought he was just a youtuber that They that they just you know fully backed But no, he would he they had had him inside the company and showed him all kinds of Craziness so he has a very good understanding of the balance of paragon So I think predecessor just knocked it out of the park by picking up our gsa's And then ethereal's gga team is are no slouch either. They got a lot of great people on their team They got j tree which who somebody I know personally and he's just I've been playing with him since paragon. He is one of these smartest people I know so if anybody can figure out the balance over there, it'll be j tree I got I got my faith in him. I got my faith in j tree Also ruba on um on omeda's side. He's such a genius that And he just understands so many little uh Little things about the game that he's going to be very valuable or he is very valuable to them Ruba cracks me up As soon as you said ruba I was thinking about the time he was like He got something right and everybody else was wrong. He said eat shit nerds. Yeah I think that was on my stream. Wasn't it? I think it was That cracked me. I'm so bad. Just so quick with it. So quick with it. I know he's amazing The other day smoky was streaming and he had his hat backwards and I was calling him zack morris, of course Because that's like my go-to joke when I see somebody Hat backwards, but ruba was like he looks like he's trying to be a european tennis player I laughed so fucking hard at that And I notice I haven't seen smoky wearing his hat backwards in his streams since then Poor smoky Oh, yeah Uh with well, I mean with ethereal and all the weird stuff they have going on I could see a lot of like you were talking about with muriel Being able to be so prominent for the prime dunk I could see situations like that arising quite a bit and um, I could definitely see situations arising with the With with the with the archmage class ability with these teleportation sigils Just depends on how I wish I knew some more about him. I really do but um Something I was thinking of that would be might be a little overpowered with the teleportation sigils If you had two mages one in one lane and one in the other lane One mage could clear a lane out to where it was almost dead Teleport up and they could keep swapping with one mage finishing off all the minions until you're stacking one of your mages To a ridiculous level really quickly in the game if one mage is getting fed two lanes You're going to have you know If you have two mages and one of them is feeding the other one The one mage isn't going to be all that effective But if that mage has a lot of cc abilities, they don't need A lot of gold to be effective And you've got this other mage with a whole lot of damage abilities And they've got way more gold than anybody else that could get out of hand really quick and something that they need to Keep an eye on of course, but like I said, we don't know how these teleportation sigils work We we need more we need answers ethereal And no more maybes none of that maybes I don't want to see that fucking pelican anymore Some of you know what i'm talking about others don't hahaha Mandy's like, what are you talking about pelican? I have no idea what you're talking about But jelly knees knows exactly what i'm talking about Spent enough time in that discord you find out the memes You guys got anything else to say about overpowered heroes and All that jazz Let's move on to plugs jelly knees. What do you got the plug brother? Well, so By the time this comes out, I'll have two new videos out. Oh, excellent So i'm happy to have those i've been taking a like eighth my eight month break, but here i am i'm back i'm around Doing things we got ethereal all of them are going to be covering ethereal this week And then I should have regular uploads every week after that now. Oh right on did right And i'll have your youtube channel. Do you do you still stream on twitch? You used to stream on twitch, right? I do I stream four days a week on twitch. Okay. Yeah, I'll have both linked the video description below Mandy you got anything to plug Um, I have a video out. Um, it's just a clip compilation from some scary games I've been playing on stream like I had plugged last week my spooktober event on on uh stream So I put out a little clip compilation So just in case anybody is uh not coming out and hanging out then they can see kind of what they're missing because It's just me. It's just me screening. That's why you're missing. It is funny though. It is very funny. I I enjoyed the video. I cracked me up quite a bit Uh, I got nothing to plug um, so I guess that's going to be it for this week appreciate everybody coming out. Um A lot I know there's a lot of information this week It's it it was it seemed like such a you know when it rains at poor's situation and uh A three-year-old predecessor both made it poor this week So I'm glad to see that because uh, we've got some dry crops and they they need that rain So anyway, this is the four of the minions crew signing off you guys. Have a good one Man go