 Here we and now I'm gonna turn my fan down so it doesn't affect my microphone as badly The sacrifices I have to make I We couldn't hear it before That's the interesting thing as far as I'm aware you guys can't hear it But the people on the stream definitely can you could definitely hear it whenever I listen back on streams You can just get a sort of noise in the background Yeah But yeah, it's it's beneficial to to the world if I just I boil all good Okay, you know, we probably would open with discussing a bit about far from home But it feels bad that right rags will see it eventually we can go spoiler free for a little bit if you guys want Yeah, I liked it. Did you two like it? Yes, I was a movie it was a movie It was good. Yes. It was a good widget movie I am totally a language F on that one like it was a good movie and not a great spider-man movie Well, I mean, yeah, we probably can't go much further without getting it into sort of spoilers even the vaguest of Yes, just put like this. It was light. It was fun. It was funny and the humor worked But it doesn't after watching something like Endgame or even Ant-Man and the Wasp last year This movie feels very almost inconsequential. Just, you know, you don't need to see it. Oh I thought Ant-Man and the Wasp was really inconsequential Yeah, it is but it had a few moments that built towards something with Endgame this obviously end games over but there's like nothing With this movie. Anyway, never mind. I don't want to spoil anything Yeah, I figured that it would be a good framing to say like any any judgments we try and make or at least points We try and make it have to be irrelevant of far from home not only for rags of sake, but just so that I don't know We we just pretend that we would having this conversation before far from home was really Nice to go. Yeah, Michelle was much better in the second movie. She was she was I yeah, she was better the it was three a Tom Holland was better There was definite improvements, so Yeah, I guess we just like I'm just giving people time to Jump in before we start but maybe we could talk about how we're gonna approach it, you know There's there's so many different things to attack first. I imagine people you guys would want to jump to Spider-Man's character first and foremost a picture of that But do we want to talk a bit about? It just makes sense to sort of start here because I think this is gonna come up So how would would you would you guys say that it's a poorly written film homecoming? No No, I have a very average either one of you's I did you want to say anymore? Yeah, I did I don't want you go first Jeff. I don't want to step on you I was gonna say is I have I Watch a lot of band movies for fun, so I've definitely experienced a lot of poorly written films like samurai cop movie makes no sense at times Spider-Man homecoming Parent from beginning to end it's logical. I just Like dislike but like on the most basic level it it's a movie that works. It's not broken I don't go I mean there are some internal logic issues based on like other MCU stuff, but you know I Don't know how much of the score. I would take off based on those things Okay, Gary Okay, so Average movie I have no problems with like plot holes or or anything like that and Be a logical discussion because of my emotional attachment to this character from the age of four years old and Feeling like I know this character better than I know some of my family members and Yeah, like objectively it's Just a very average movie, but again, I feel the same way As far from home is it like it doesn't Impact me very much and but some of the decisions made with the character. I just absolutely hated and It was part of Tom Holland's performance that I hated so but actual writing story progression Not that's not the thing. I have the problem with Figure out how they're building the spider-man universe within the MCU and how I feel like Sony has done it better in the in the beginning not the latter but and It feels like the MCU is making conscious decisions to make changes to a character that they're gonna end up ruining in the long run Because there's there's long-term effects to these changes. They're making and unless they just want to make a couple movies and be done with them And then that's whatever and which maybe they might be doing I figure since we're these are almost like opening statements Do you want to what rags? What's your take on homecoming just so everybody gets a good like B-thing before we go Well, I think homecoming is both objectively and subjectively for me and the top three of the MCU I think it's one of the best written of the MCU movies in terms of all the details that make it come together And all of logical consistency of the events that occur in it I think Tom Holland is a fantastic spider-man. I think he really captures of this this kind of youthful yearning kind of character who looks up to people and you learns along the way I really really enjoy Homecoming think it's really solid All right, and then yeah for me, I just think it's a Extremely well-written film for the MCU There's there's an expectation that superhero movies have to be of a Sort of a lower standard you get you get a lot of people being like oh, it's just a superhero movie the same thing with Star Wars I'm not a huge fan of that attitude. It's like that these things They can be Elevated to a certain degree and like there's no secret on this street but one of my favorite if not my favorite superhero movie is Civil War and Spider-Man Homecoming comes below it in the MCU, but it is literally second I I'm I'm surprised by how much I pay attention to homecoming that I'm rewarded through a Lot of what is essentially the cause and effect how everything lines up How it sits in the MCU and how it tries to solve a lot of the MCU's problems in a meta sense So like if you guys remember this was this was post like phase 3 or during phase 3 Where a lot of the complaints were that the villains in the MCU suck Yeah, none of the films really recognized that they're in a universe together. They all seem to ignore each other Like the characters that are not really seen or that the the events of one film don't really affect another and Soundtracks are typically considered very like cookie cutter or interchangeable and this movie took a lot of steps to try and Let's say evolve that the films and then while maintaining the strengths which being that there's a is a hero's journey of a sort Occuring in the in the film that has a nice progression that leads a character from one position to another one through a lot of adversity and Fuck do I love vulture as a as a a great not only a villain that has just great motivation But one that's created by the events of the MCU In a very realistic down to earth I would call way But you know that I am very fully aware that a lot of people hate homecoming and I think all the four of our takes have both Upset and please the people in chat already and this part of why we're having this debate is because Every time we tried like praise homecoming we get this surprise avalanche of like what the fuck is wrong with you homecoming It's terrible. I think a lot of people think it's the worst spider-man Incarnation in a movie What do you guys? That's the thing I I think the worst spider-man movie. I've seen is probably amazing spider-man 2 if we're looking at a broken film It's really bad Killed the horrible in every way It's the last time I've had nerve rage inside of a theater and walked out. Oh, yeah I stopped my wife. Yeah, I got I got mad in there. I was so mad at the end of that I was laughing this is probably the fact the connection we have to spider-man is probably different. I was just like well This this this iteration is ruined. It's like not the I didn't think it made a spot about what was that particularly good But it was better than the second one at least I that was my take Great, I'll go I'll agree with that one. It's a very low bar, but yes But yeah We I guess I guess we'll just try and move on some criticism. So Where do you guys want to start? I give you the floor? And I say unless you want me to start like we can do it either way I could talk about what I think is something good and you could criticize it all vice versa I'll just start out here. I'll start again with it. This is gonna be hard for me to judge Objectively, I don't know if I even judge any movie objectively. I'm a I'm an emotional gut person and Yeah, again spider-man. I've been a fan my entire life. I sold the comics. I've read the comics I've literally forgotten a lot of them too because of you know drugs in the 80s, but It's something that has been a connection I've had I've had a connection of this character through good times and bad through many many years now I gave up on him in the comic books Because you know the comic book spider-man is no longer that spider-man either So, you know, that's something I need to expect that there's a basic logic to the character There's a very very basic thing to spider-man and Peter Parker. He is the every man. He does not win He does not get help He is very grounded in that way and that's why so many people like him. He doesn't have a babysitter He doesn't get a bunch of tech because he doesn't need it because he's smart on his own and There's a lot of reasons he can't join other superheroes or have a girlfriend or have a normal life Because he is a kid trying to work Very things out and it's the first time and that's why it connected with so many people at that age Because they think you know as a kid by the way, I'm very against this as an adult being able to see yourself and identify with a character I think as an adult you should be able to just enjoy a character that's presented to you. But as a kid Yeah, I don't totally saw myself in the mask and when I was running around my first visit to san francisco I was pretending to web all the buildings when I was like seven years old and I was swinging through the streets That was spider-man to me. This is a This is a disney version of spider-man. It's a disney Uh xd version of spider-man, uh, and that's uh, you know, so that's a built-up resentment I'm gonna admit that from uh, and nobody's gonna be able to talk me out of that by the way Because you fundamentally change the character. It's the same problem. I have with star trek. You fundamentally change something It's not that thing anymore Or man label they don't even use the right logo Right logo. So they got a couple things right in homecoming. I'll admit that but for the most part the character is completely wrong So you'd say it would be unsuitable to label him spider-man Yes, because uh, yeah, I'll get into particular criticism. There's one big one I have that actually people argue with me on but I I can't stand it. Yeah, that's okay So would you be partial to the to the to the counter that I would say you're right He's not the spider-man from the comics. He is the spider-man from the mcu Yeah, I I understand that argument But you would think that the mcu would be the one place to get him pretty close to right, but it Right, but what is what is right? Uh, sam raimi in film sam raimi spider-man is close, but it's it's not that close and spider-man is not like batman there hasn't been 19 different versions of a based on the artist and the writer Spider-man's been pretty much was pretty much the same from when dico left to God the 90s and then they started messing with him a little bit and todd mcfarland came in I thought did some very good work with him and uh, but he's uh character wise has been the same for a lot was Decades decades now, you know with batman you could argue bruce wan has been a different bruce Well because they've changed the realities many different times But peter parker spider-man has been the most consistent character throughout comics because he's honestly the easiest they over complicated it So you would think you would get something better in the mcu. So is it my expectation? Yes, but I think I think that's a lot of comic book fans and and even even if you just watched spider-man the animated series Which got the character right? It's very inconsistent and he's too young Um, so I guess the the problem is two fold first is that I'm not 100 convinced and maybe we'll have this conversation That he is too too dissimilar from the primary traits that peter parker slash spider-man should have But aside from that i'm not sure that he has to have those things if someone is trying to do What you would call an adaptation or interpretation of this character in in a universe that isn't built for him It's built for this this you know movie series of Characters and so if he's to arrive he needs to slot in with purpose sort of thing as opposed to You know, there's a lot of different ways they could have placed him into the mcu, but I'm suggesting that um He is as a result of the world that he is in as well as who he is as would be applied to all of them Like there'll be concession slash adaptations to all of the characters that change them from their comic counterparts to account for the worlds they're in Like the one I usually bring up is that I'm aware of the comic book version of civil war storyline and I Do not like it compared to the film And so if someone was to tell me it's like they're not faithful therefore they shouldn't call it civil war. It's not It's it's not it's not good or it's it's not it's not civil war. It's not captain america. So I would be like, okay It's it's their version And to say it's not the comic book spider-man to me doesn't necessarily matter I would just be like is it is it still functional? Is it still well written? Does it still Have the required elements that allow it to tell its story of a hero becoming or a kid becoming a hero is what I would consider the Template of a spider-man story, but if you'd like to we can get into What elements of spider-man's character do you think are missing from uh homecoming? Well, I just wanted to say to jump off a gary's point the what spider-man lacks in the mcu is uh If they made batman movies without his parents getting killed One thing I think a lot of people and it's not just comic book. It's every adaptation pre disney It's always this guilt complex, you know the great power the responsibility. I made a mistake I have to pay for it through my superheroing Uh mcu spider-man has no guilt has no responsibility It like modern day social media people just everything is oh, it's no big deal And we just kind of gloss over it and don't have any struggles spider-man's built on struggles that's In the character. He's supposed to be beaten down with life In this one, it you know, well, hold on. I can't say that fine in homecoming when he faces adversity Iron man swoops in to save the day when the trolley or not the trolley the fairy gets split in half To take care of that stuff on his own other heroes Don't just swoop in and take care of it. You know, he's supposed to get through the event and then go home And you know have his light shut off and be hungry and this and that Just all the aspects of the character from every form of him just isn't there You know superficially it looks like spider-man and it's this modern Deadpool light spider-man that people have been writing for about 10 years or so so you get that but And the deeper themes that's just always been there It's like you could say well, it's great that he lifted the rubble in the basement and that's you know reminiscent of The master planner saga. Yeah, but the the internal struggle of the character outside of that one moment's never there It's just there's so many things that this spider-man Fails to hit for somebody who's been reading Comics since I could read I learned to read from comic books and spider-man's always been a consistent thing up until about four years ago didn't really Miss issues now spider-man's unreadable just like all of marvel and that's when my problem comes to jump off gary Like they just you know, this dignification of spider-man See movies out of uh, you know responsibility for our channel, but you know, there's enjoyment. Yeah, that's not really there anymore What about that third act then because you said the iron man swoops in to save the day That act is his old pizza on his own with his own tech and his own decision to pursue the hero life at the expense of his social life I like that but See we're under the guise of we gotta we can't acknowledge the next thing um All stuff mcu stuff. There's no Certain characters face no real repercussions Uh, would you say pizza's one of them? Yes, I would the guardians face no repercussions It's like brute sacrifices himself and guardians, you know the we are a group moment And then at the end of the movie he's reborn as the little baby Groot and he just it's just all fun and lighthearted And that's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with that um I mean, there's degrees of consequences, right? Because I'm assuming I'm assuming you're on board with the idea that there are still Consequences as a as a whole like iron man and is obviously Uh dead now in in universe So that would be a major consequence for his choice to save the world that sort of thing So we do have it It's just that you're you're concerned that there's not I guess more consequences or consequences that are equal to the actions that are taking place Is it in his personal life? I mean, I don't want to sound like I want to watch You know people be tortured, but that's kind of what spider-man is. I I was talking to gary about this off-air ones Um, I'll just use a comic book reference like he needed money He found a way to make money taking these weird photos of a science lab and like the radiation destroyed the film So he goes through this big journey and you know wins the spider-man, but he's still screwed over as peter parker like Best example for me um in the first two ramy films because the third one I acknowledge is not great It has moments of greatness. It's still a pretty bad movie and I don't hate homecoming I just don't like this spider-man. I'm not invested. I don't hate him Uh, you know at the end of the second one, it's like he saves the day He beats doc ox all that will doc ox sacrifice himself. We have these big epic moments and then He loves go off to the guy he's married. She's gonna get married to and he goes and he sits in an apartment And he just accepts that now. Yes. She does come back and they have their moment together But you know the first issue of appearance of spider-man He walks off into the sunset or the moonlight defeated after uncle ben had been killed and all this stuff He doesn't have these big wins, you know, he gets defeated by the scorpion the vulture beats and all these people beat him It takes time Um, I understand these are thematic things. These are movies, but we just Too light-hearted. I'm not saying it needs to be serious, but Balance it better Um, so it almost seems like there's uh, you want him to you have consequences to a particular degree because I was gonna say like There are a lot of things that happen in the film that are definitely They're detrimental to his life thanks to his choices of trying to become a hero like I'm not trying to be condescending But it's like, okay, so you got the uh, he keeps losing social capital in favor of pursuing like criminals and stuff And fighting crime you get like lines from neds With disappointment and like the whole like I guess we're just still losers and how like all of the people in his Class don't take him that seriously and they're like like like liz I think says, um You know the last line in the film where she's like you say sorry a lot. What are you even sorry for like He's not taken very seriously anymore because he's unreliable and he constantly pursuing other things He drops like four of his different classes in school. He almost gets expelled uh There are a lot of elements that are that are definitely affecting his life like Aunt may is distraught because of the fact that there's no idea where the hell he's going or what he's doing um They're all very low scale compared to something like him losing someone or or uh, I don't know getting like a permanent injury or losing a house or something like that but The idea being that the film is relatively small scale in general Um And that I think that the bigger losses for this version of spider-man is going to come once he's once he's older Because right now he's is he 15 in the film? I think 15. Yeah, and all that stuff really matters when you're 15. It's very important to him He loses obviously his chance with liz is gone. Thanks to his choice to take down vulture Yeah, but We act like the his interaction with liz is actually important because the audience knows Well, whatever name is michelle character Home or far from home outside of it. You know, she's interested. We can see that's gonna come along Um, I feel like he does have certain consequences, but it's like It's okay. There's some silver lining. He's gonna, you know, he's gonna land on his feet and be okay Yeah, oh no I mean, I was gonna say that's uh and as for liz like I I think it would be fair to say that nobody knew exactly what was going on unless you had like meta information in your pocket because uh We didn't know her name was mj until the end of the film again, assuming you didn't look into casting Voices and labels and stuff and that um, isn't liz an actual love interest in the comics Or Not really relevant. I mean she's there in the very beginning Betty branch. She's an early on character when it was I mean, you know when it was more soap opera e and 60s comic But nothing major more important Yeah, so all I'm trying to suggest was that there was there's plenty of groundwork to assume that that could have been a relationship And spider-man lost it in favor of becoming a superhero or choosing that life over his A social life several times Okay, so in homecoming Stating the consequences are there um, but The superhero consequences the the overarching thing that's the biggest problem here Is there's a bunch of things I have a problem with and I have a I have more of a problem with aunt may being hot and young Now than I did even when I first saw the movie because I think that really takes away from his character Again, and there's little things etching away at his character. So yeah, he uh, there's a big battle at the end Right, but it's kind of dark bad special effects gobbledygook to be honest with you I didn't get much out of it. I just thought it was really dark and blurry and I watched it again right before here And not super well done. Uh, I like the vulture. I thought uh, he did a great job But you know the iron man, uh Two particular things that really bugged the hell out of me were with jeff when he when iron man swooped in and saved Saved him from uh ripping the ship being ripped in half and then chastising him and then uh him being trapped And talking to caron in the suit That that scene bugs the hell out of me where he's asking, you know Girl advice with him from his female ai that spider man would never have it's so out of character And I know it's from ultimate spider man. I'm gonna hear the arguments. I know that. Uh, I've read ultimate spider man um And it's not the best version of spider man. It's okay, but it's very much Wouldn't there be an argument there for your picking and choosing what you think is the authentic or great spider man versus what is You know presented to us by the ip Absolutely, and and and the same argument could be made. I don't care about spider man. So I'm but the biggest difference is is Hardcore fans, uh, we're the ones who spread the word of mouth and we're also the ones who know the most about the character And uh, when they they definitely want to please everybody. I understand that so I go into a movie I don't expect to get the perfect version of spider man comma in comic books. It's I that's never going to happen It's an adaptation, but I'm big on spirit of the character I'm big big on spirit of the character. This one this peter Cries too much. He whines too much. Uh, I've never I can't uh, jeff Help me here. Uh, maybe in ultimate spider man. He cried a lot And that's that's like teenage drama bullshit And uh, and and jeff and I have had this conversation He was a teenager for a very small percentage of time in the comics and I I'm Listen, I the one thing they did right. I'm glad we did not see uncle ben get shot again. Thank god I mean, thank you And uh, another thing they got right as they played the actual theme before the movie So I was fired up when this thing started, but it kind of went, you know a downhill um It just yeah quick note. You said you cried too much You do approve of the writing films though To approve. Yes, I understand toby cries in that as well. I'm not a big fan of that, but If you look back, uh, when spider man is is crying He's crying in the ramy films when somebody dies when spider man is crying In homecoming. It's out of fear He's fifth tier is wait, let's so What what what senior referencing just so I know Um, and that's the argument. I always get he's 15. Okay. I was 15 Okay So, uh Okay, let's let's let's just stick to the actual Well, what are you talking about the scene where he's with aunt may because I would happily The scene where he's all crying he's crying. He's oh, no, no when he's lifting up the thing Yeah, that's you know, and also I had a problem with him crying in in uh, infinity war two I did when he's almost dying when he's crushed by the The two of mine thing. I think it's bad that he was crying there Yeah, I couldn't take it Okay It seems like a really traumatic thing to happen to someone of that age with those stakes involved This brush with mortality is probably really really emotionally. Um, he's already had brushes with mortality. Oh gosh I guess what does it? Yeah, I was gonna say like, uh He's he's as a kid and he's about to die like I don't know I If I'm about to die, I'm probably gonna tear up myself if I'm being completely honest with you even at my age um And I don't know about that. That's a strange argument. I I'm just a cold hard asshole, but uh, uh, yeah When I was 15, I was I was in some pretty tough situations when I was 15 actually and I didn't cry Um, I guess spider-man can either well So to rewind uh, the first thing you said when you He's a brave carry, you know, it may be afterwards Maybe if somebody's dying but for his own fear Maybe if they put in a context that like he's more worried about like amp may or something like that sure But for himself. No, he would power through that Well, he did That's why I don't like the decision of him being a kid again either. So That might be on top of that power through it It's but yeah, I don't know It's uh, yeah, basically Michael you're right No, I it's just it turned me off personally. I was like, you know, I that's He's really whiny Uh, and you know, and I liked him a lot in savour by the way. I thought he was very good in savour Uh, but I think what they set up there never happened for me personally in homecoming Um, so to move away from the crying thing Uh, the first thing you said when you because you you brought quite a few criticisms Oh, you said that um, aunt may being hot is a problem for his character. I'm curious what you mean by that um Okay, this is gonna sound crude y'all. Sorry, uh So what how Ant-Man be at may being elderly was again important to his character because he had this constant level of worry Uh may that was kind of his highest priority for for the longest time is what's aunt may got to think You know, she's always having these health problems He's you know, uh, and and listen there I remember in the 90s people were hoping she would die people were wanting her to die and they eventually did do it Uh people got tired of the aunt may thing for the longest time and sometimes they go long periods of time You know without mentioning it very much either But that's an important part of the character making her young and making her younger is fine. I But young and hot It's it's funny at first and again, uh, I didn't realize I minded it that much until actually after I saw the second movie It's more of a second movie thing with me, but it bugs me a little bit I think again, it takes away from the character It takes an important part away from the character because he has this huge generation gap So she does not understand a lot of the things he's going through even when he's in his 20s So I think, you know, now we have this cool hippie mom who's getting hit on and uh, you know, yeah, it's just a weird element that uh I didn't like very much, but again, maybe I'm old-fashioned Um, so for me, I was just uh happy to just to see a different vision see how it's going to affect the storyline Because like I think the biggest tell for me that I was like, oh, this is not the aunt may that uh I was expecting in a in a relatively positive light was when uh, he says Like he's trying to he's trying to bullshit her about the what happened With the fairy and she just says cut the bullshit like give me what actually happened I was just like, oh shit. This aunt may is like on the ball. She's not just going to be like, oh peter Exactly, which means she's gonna figure out he's spider-man with everybody else and uh Well, uh, so it gets them to have very grounded conversations very quickly. Um, there's this this this element of she knows Like you just said like she's supposed to have a generational gap Well, I would argue that I prefer that she understands him. She she she talks about how like Him sneaking out every night isn't something that's necessarily worrying her because it's something that she used to do But she wants to know the truth about what he's doing I also know what's happening because she's obviously very concerned for his life And um, I just like that they have a relationship where they're very close And that she is essentially his mum uh like a young mum the thing is we have to remember she looks young for her age She's still I'm not sure what canon age she is in the film, but isn't uh, marisa tomei in like mid fifties She's just really early 50. So she's like 30 years older than the actor Tom holland. Yeah, so that'd be like how my mom and I are 30 years age difference Which you know, that's still a relatively significant distance you can you can definitely generate Yeah, it's still it does. I'm used to elderly aunt may again. This is an old-fashioned thing, but it Really makes a difference with the character and it's not something you can really explain unless you've read it for Many many years and that's that's where the riff is You brought the whole uh Oh, that's fine. Uh, you talked about uh, you know exposing a secret identity. They took that away. That's such a Part of his character it goes into play with you know, aunt may not know and this person not knowing Instead of her being able to sympathize and relate we're supposed to be like It is the the reader you're supposed to go if only he could say this one thing All of his problems would be solved But if he says that one thing everyone's lives are in danger. They took that away Have they literally it wasn't there to be together have I mean there's nothing there to take it away You have to have it to take it away It was never even there the character I'm trying to get at that doesn't your stony took away I don't care about the character. Well, I care about what's in the film I'm getting like what I guess what Rags is trying to say is like the the she's not Yeah, you're sort of judging her based on what she is in in the alternate version, right? I'm judging like oh, I guess it's just another point to uh agree with Gary about why I'm not a big fan of it Okay, he's not always meant to relate like we're It just is the character in any in any iteration worse the audience is supposed to be going to relate with him Uh, well see so like in this iteration I don't think aunt may is as important or at least uh as explored currently as she may Probably is in the comics or in Well, I'd have to rewatch the ramy films. I can't remember how important she's never really meant she She's just meant to be like something he's like responsible for to protect Things she's like his moral center Like in the part two when she or part three is like oh spider-man killed the sandman She's like spider-man doesn't kill secretly. She knows who he is type of thing like you're supposed to imply it not Yeah, no, I imagine that They'll be doing more with her once spider-man is um an adult in this continuity Like for now he may very well have to protect Does that validate this movie? Well, they're gonna do it in the future. No, it's uh, it's me saying that It's the thing. Did they do anything great? Did they do anything with cap's parents in his movie? Is that a detriment to his story? Those parents aren't even a character Yeah You're fundamental character stuff and I mean it's great and fine to look at this as an objective film But it's a franchise. We're talking. This is multiple spider-man movies in this is marvel Who is running this thing with in conjunction with sony? But you have amp-may for a large portion of times was scared of spider-man that didn't like spider-man and uh now all of a sudden she's like knows about it She's cool amp-may. She'll probably go skateboarding with them later and that takes away from the character completely spider-man is supposed to be essentially a loan Loan for the longest part. That's the most f up thing. That's why it's kind of cool You know, uh, his relationship with uh, johnny storm a little bit That's why he would get some relief you'd be able to talk to somebody or even dare double later on um, and and they don't know him as peter for the most part, uh, except for matt but um And and he still he feels isolated as hell and it's a major part of the character And that's why we we love him because secretly he is like the baddest ass in the marvel universe and nobody knows it Don't think he's a bad guy and i'm going way back with this. This is fundamental to spider-man so if we just want to look i'm i'm looking at spider-man widget objectively over here sure it's fine but Uh, it it really isn't you're not seeing the best version of this character and it's disappointing because this is for marvel If it was universal producing this film i'd be like that's pretty good version. Yeah, sure This marvel so yeah, I don't think it's wrong of any fan or me to have expectations with a spider-man film Which we've seen plenty of films for so I think that absolutely plays in To how you judge this film you it's not apocalypse now. It's not a separate film It's part of a franchise. We already got a sequel Okay, which again they made a couple improvements on all of this is an attitude we maintain for everything That's an adaptation Everything no no it did I would say with certain things that are uh that transcend Uh, like star trek transcends. That's american mythology spider-man is american mythology if it's just like an adaptation of Like your latest even the expanse and stuff. I wouldn't take it that seriously lord of the rings. I would take seriously I'm not saying it makes sense. Uh, that's just what it is for me. Uh, so, uh You you would have I'm assuming you would have a sort of rule set for when an adaptation must be faithful versus non-faithful But with spider-man I would make that like it's a rare exception. Usually I'm pretty I'm not like Crazy about uh getting something right, but I'm the the character of spider-man. I don't even expect like Them using the jitari the technology to create the vulture. I am fine with that is a great idea I thought that was really well done. Uh, that was a good way to bring in Like admittedly a very silly character that I liked in the comics that works great in the complex that does not work Very well in a live action film. I thought that was a very good decision um His leap from i'm going to i'm like kind of the This guy who got screwed over by the corporation to murdering one of his people eight years later I mean he did that max. That was that was yeah But he wasn't too sorry about it and he's like you're the you're the shocker now. I mean Tough but I was okay with that. I was like fine fine, uh, and uh, yeah Michael Keaton was one of the the good things about it. So that's that's me on Not minding a major change from the comics and being reliant again on the mcu. I thought that was a good thing That's an example of a good thing. When uh, how do you like define when the change is a bad or good? I define it when it comes to the actual character of the comic and how it speaks to me personally because I can't I don't I can't speak for anybody else. I'm not going to try to speak for anybody else. This is for me personally And uh, and how it it fundamentally misses Like I've said Um of the character he is a version of peter parker That's not even that close to the ultimate version to be honest with you The reason I I said that uh about about cap's parents theoretically right is because we could have mcu too Or you know a tv series that reboots everything And cap's story could be dependent on parents that guided him into being the man He is and tony stark story could literally never mention his parents And you might say something like well that would be comics inaccurate while I would be like oh well I mean let's see what they do with it. Let's see how it goes in this continuity of spider-man Aunt may an uncle ben are not as important as someone like tony stark to peter's life Or at least peter's pursuit as a superhero Um, is that worse or is that different? That's it's worse because he never becomes his own man Doesn't he Oh Go watch. I don't care about the the next one. You have to still watch it. He's milk. He's still not his own man He's not his own man. He never becomes his own man. He's a shadow of that even Thematically, he doesn't become peter parker. Uh, you know his own identity. He's still tony stark light The world needs him to be that disney needs him to be that it's all about trying to replicate Uh It's brand longevity. These movies are pop culture fast food In and out's better than mcdonald's to some people. Maybe it's got higher quality meat But it's still the same thing these this spider-man is not You know this piece of film making Okay, you know so, uh I assumed like in the film Iron man rescuing him from drowning and iron man fixing the ferry for you guys crossed the line in terms of taking his agency away Think think of the train scene from spider-man two. No one is there to back him up He does it through his own will and he basically passes out from exhaustion. That's his journey. That's his thing That's him saving the day So the third act of homecoming Third act of homecoming, uh, didn't uh, what it didn't land for me. Uh, story-wise it made sense It wasn't a very good scene because it wasn't well directed. It was too dark I didn't like uh, the some of the effects some of them were fine But I couldn't really it was just a gobbledygook and honestly, I've seen it twice now and I barely remember it Uh Man is the gold Standard of comic books. You should not be making Subpar average mcu-ish movies. This will be completely forgotten Homecoming will be a blip compared to spider-man two in 10 years. Well, I I disagree. I'm not forgetting it's agreed to Um, my two favorites of spider-man two and homecoming The spider-man movies. Um, so the the I'd argue it's already a blip. I think a lot of people it's uh, it's kind of forgotten That's that's a lot of the like what you like. I understand that Yeah, people people might forget that's okay. Um, what you like so uh Like like the idea that I'm trying to sort of gear us to the topic of uh Him being his own his own man as as uh, jeff put it Well, you brought up the third act and then we went to it's too dark and the effects weren't great Yeah, well, yeah, trying to keep steering steering on talk is like hurting cats man. Good luck with that. It's okay Uh, so him being his own man Jeff made the best point. He he hasn't become that yet. He won't Become that uh, he's got one more film. We got one more film with tom haulin. That's it Uh, so we've we is this whole his journey to become his old man and his own man in the last five minutes We're gonna get it. Well, that's again, that's not spider-man. That's the one last five minutes I uh, i'm a little bit confused because like he's in homecoming. Um I don't know that there's a scene where he does what tony tells him to do Like do you want to just give me an example? It might not be but the whole it's a shadow put over him is tony No, he probably doesn't do everything Tony tells him to do but it's there. He's got a suit with an ai he's going behind his back and disabling it against the rules and sneaking out and Clearly violating what tony wants him to do He still has the safety net from what tony's built for him And then and he loses it because he doesn't use the power with responsibility He does lose it, but he the fact that it's even there is a problem for me. Why why Because he's It's supposed to be his own ingenuity. He's not supposed to bounce like okay, so when tody stark goes to see him in civil war And he's like this is impressive Okay, or if we want to talk about like the adaptation in the game where he has so I mean it's 2019 It was 2018 when the game came out. There's going to be technology. I'm not expecting like Uh, a cloth suit and transistor radios like it's 1965. I get that same thing with uh Building up iron man and making him more modern with the vulture point too I'm cool with the chitari design or infusion. You have to have it make sense Because stan lee and steve didko didn't know about science I think it was what was it gary like the magnetic pull of the the earth or whatever has gave the vulture his powers Like something stupid like that. That's not gonna work. Yeah, I think too literal I mean there is a point of too literal But with spider man, you know some technology like the web shooters. That's cool It's that he's has that but The doesn't the suit tell him how to get out of that warehouse or how to do this or how to do that Or how to gauge certain things. Um, he he suggests hacking the security door in the warehouse The suit just helps him like a calculator would help you he even has a calculator in that scene. I think It's his idea And that's similar for a lot of his uh interactions with the suit throughout the film He'll have an idea the suit will facilitate The answer for example the structural integrity of the building like the washington monument That's not something that you would know as a human being like it's how long until it breaks Pretty hard to tell but the suit that Calculated that's like a part of the character here. He would have to basically do it by the seat of his pants This is an adventure type of thing Well, the suit creates the ticking clock The suit is like you have this much time So spider man has to do it within that time frame It was like for me another problem with the suit since They took away the internal monologue of spider man, which is its own thing Of the cartoons had it other iterations of the movies had it the suit to me is like the internal monologue I don't know if I like it. It's almost too literal for some of that stuff I don't know. I just think it takes away from him using his uh His ingenuity because he has um a crutch in many ways Okay, well it takes away from his ingenuity I was gonna say like the he's still he's given a tool It's how he uses that tool that makes him who he is as far as I can tell And the suit is only ever at his back and call this the suit is waiting onto a I look at it like this, you know how tony built the suit in the first one in the cave Yeah, the spider man technology is that but it's supposed to be rough around the edges. It's not Exe thing I hate the andrew garfield movies But at least it's like well, maybe I order a piece offline or something like I can get that But like they have the the biggest industrialist in history Provide you with this I get it at the end of the movie. He doesn't have the suit and that's fine. I like that but I think uh, we've seen other films third act spider man specifically the first one from 2002 where uh, You know just use the phrase the chips are down and he basically Overcomes it better like that Overcomes it better Like this I think from a movie standpoint. It's much more entertaining to See the personal battle between him and the green goblin in that warehouse and how he's gonna do this to mj And all this stuff and all the themes of the movie come to a close and something And then to watch the character still lose the thing he wants Then the third act of this one where there's definitely something personal between him and the vulture Yeah daughter Well, not just that it's the recognition that um But like the whole speech in the warehouse before vulture drops the rubble on him In fact that he sees them as equals and they're both just trying to achieve something that He's gonna help the overall elements of the world at the expense of people like tony starkle the rich above and so uh But but spider-man's principled. He's like you're a villain. You're a bad guy You're doing x and vulture's frustrated by that But he's he's just gonna have to put up with it It's part of why vulture doesn't you know give spider-man up is probably why he doesn't kill him when he has two opportunities to Vulture's not a bad guy. He's he's he's you could say that he's spider-man on a bad day You could you could absolutely force a good character to Enter into what vulture ends up committing himself to and then he goes too far Like the idea that he's just doing a cleanup crew just trying to make some money And then he ends up uh getting screwed over by tony stark Making money from the messes he creates and it creates this working man villain that was only ever just trying to provide for his family And so there's a there's a level of camaraderie in their goals but it's the execution that separates them and uh Obviously the connection with the daughter is important as well political allegory isn't lost either so Sorry subtle political. I said then There was uh, he's protective again peter's kind of protected by an adult in this and uh, you know, that's the one thing that Made him very vulnerable You know psychologically in the comics. Okay, and this is something you're gonna miss here because the constant Overarking shadow of tony stark existing is what takes away from it. It's yes He doesn't use his tech at the end but we know in the back of our minds Iron man could fly in any second and save his ass even though he doesn't know what he's got Well, we don't know that see we have a doubt. I have a doubt when i'm watching this movie It takes away from the character when he is babysat by tony stark from the get go even for a second Even if they don't use it again, it takes away from the character because I don't buy into it I don't buy in that he's all the way on his own I and listen that again, they already showed him swoop swooping in and they did that to kind of Trick you at the end. So he does do it on his own But tony stark's still alive. He's still there Well, peter literally comes inches away from dying Is a trick of filmmaking that I personally did not buy into and I don't and I think again It takes away from the character. Now. Is this me being stuck on some old-fashioned things And I should just get over it and get you know, and yeah, maybe I But this is how I feel about this movie. They didn't convince me as a lifelong spider-man fan that I was watching spider-man I was watching disney xd spider-man And uh, it's it's nowhere near nowhere near the character in the comic now. I again, I don't expect perfection, but We'll see in time, but 10 years spider-man 2 will still be remembered as a gold standard of superhero films much less spider-man And homecoming will be eh. It was pretty good That that's that's the most I hear from it. It's pretty good or in my chat most people don't like it But um, you weren't convinced that he was his own dude in the film You convinced that tony was gonna save him at every moment Um, uh, not that he was gonna save him, but tony's gonna be there in the end Uh, I knew he would get uh his suit offered back and well also it takes away because we know But and this plays into the film. I know he's going to be an infinity war and end game these are all In my head and I know that they can't have any true stakes Doing these sequels and that's something well, that's a greater thing with the mcu that that they lose But uh, yeah, it's it's very much the disney mcu xd spider-man with no real stakes He's a babysitter. He's got a hot ant And he's gonna get the girl And he doesn't really have um the problems that the spider-man i read for decades did he to personally disables the babysitter protocol film does But then he gets well, he continues to get babysat though We know this Is it babysitting that tony gave him the suit or is it babysitting that he took it away like which Spider-man should have made his own damn suit. He did from scratch He did from scratch. No tony gave him a suit that he wore at the Tony gave him a suit because tony is a billionaire genius who's been making suits up to this point for good six years up So uh in continuity with the mcu and this would have denied the suit. I mean why you're on out why Why? Uh, because he doesn't want anything to do with tony and that would uh, maybe i'm just trying to read it Why because it would be better for the character Tony so spider-man would not want the suit from tony because it would be better for spider-man That continued being a problem in the sequel because he continued being Babysat. He's no why would deny the suit be better for him Uh making a suit on your own As I would tell my son, it's much better to make something on your own than get But if you're out there trying to help people and save people's lives and make the world a better place And someone says here's a suit that lets you do all of them Okay, okay, they should do that in the comic and then that would totally uh, I don't make the character so much better I'm talking. I and I don't uh, and I do So I care about the comic and I can and actually it does it's absolutely connected the film because it does say marvel On the film though So we want to try to adapt this character as much as possible because the one that's from the comic is the one That's been popular for five decades not tom haulin tom haulin will be gone in the next two to three years And there'll be a new spider-man And uh, we will see if sony even allows them To uh, they had this movie has to make a billion dollars and marvel gets to have a say in the next movie If it doesn't then it is a sony movie and he starts teaming up with venom And it goes into crap, but I digress you are No makes a complete total sense in the universe in every possible way Uh, but because of the outside source it is bad I'm talking about character. I'm not talking about making sense of the universe. I'm talking about what I personally buy as a character I don't care what anybody else thinks This is for me why I don't buy into this character because it He's babysat. He's got a person holding his hand too many damn people know who he is The way fundamentally for the character of spider-man who is supposed to be an isolated Superhero supposed to be a secret badass you the audience are supposed to be the only one who knows that spider-man kicks ass People think he's a villain People most For a good part the cops think he's a villain j jones jameson thinks he's a villain Uh aunt may doesn't like him Doesn't like him Uh, yeah, these these are important things that they take it away Oh, just if you if you can what would you be telling us right now if you'd never read a spider-man comic? Can you've only seen the movie spider-man homecoming? I would probably have been Bored I mean like the only thing that really made me buy into the movie at all is because I am a spider-man fan The movie didn't move the needle for me. Like I said, it's logical. It makes sense A goes to be pretty nice And it was like a very bland peanut butter and jelly sandwich that fed me It made me it took away my hunger for a little while then it was completely forgotten Wait, are you the mall are you the one that dislikes aquaman? Uh, wolf hates it. I think I I think it's bad, but I find it funny the thing is like I'm not an aquaman fan, but I enjoy the movie. I guess I would have the same experience That was what you're trying to get from Gary is Uh, I know who aquaman is and he's underwater and that's about it. I don't Care about the minutia of the character But I am also a big spider-man fan. That's why I'm in the theater for this stuff That's why I skipped into the spider-verse Because I read the spider-verse crossover from a couple years ago and I stopped buying comic books So why would I go support some, you know, it makes sense like I get What you're trying to get out from Gary and I'll give you my Answer like oh, yeah, aquaman until I feel about it. And so I like that for what it is, but it Was a much bigger grander picture spider-man if I never watched spider-man it's There are points of fun But there are just points of very just plain The action is not really anything I haven't seen before. They're very small movies. That's a problem with mcu movies They're Maybe there's on a lot of budget for a year or whatever how it works internally We don't know everything and certain movies feel very small And it's not always to the benefit. I mean spider-man doesn't they look very good. You brought up the music I thought the Ramones was a very A cliched choice. You see in all these other coming-of-age teen movies It's just on on all these different levels. I dislike the movie Even comparatively to other ones. I just find it to be Plain at best. Um if I was to concede that it's Unfaithful or um downright disrespectful to fans or fans understanding of spider-man If I was to be on that team that still wouldn't follow that It's a poorly written film or even a poorly written character. So I Like this is the thing when it comes back to comic arguments. I'm sort of stuck Like okay because I haven't read the comics so I can't counter you guys. Um But when you talk about like fundamental aspects of spider-man's character like learning that with great power comes great responsibility Balancing his life as spider-man versus peter parker having consequences in his social life for the actions He takes as a superhero. I'm like, yeah, all of that's in homecoming Yeah, but uh What no, uh, actually it's some of it's in homecoming and some of it's some of it's not now. Um I don't know. Yeah, it's been a long time since I've been in high school. So and I didn't like it then uh in high school movies I Try and it's impot like I said, it's impossible for me to look at something Objectively that spider-man because I you know I I can't pick what you guys are have been into all your life But I would ask you to to challenge yourself to truly look at that objectively and you'll find out you can't You can if you're invested in something since you were four or five years old You might think you can but uh, I can't I thought I could when I was you know younger too, but uh, the thing is you always have Buy it if that's a failing in your part then to give an example like I've you you know how invested I'm in Buffy and Angel Right, but with this reboot that was baited if they did make a black Buffy And then they have all the other characters and they're all just complete caricatures or insults to what they were in the source material Um, I would be making arguments for why it's it's poor within universe And if someone was curious like I could bring in arguments It's like the difference between my arguments with Tyrion in season four game of thrones. It's like, yeah I'm heavily invested uh since I was I believe it. I think I was older than four I think I was six or seven when I first saw Buffy But like I would I would love it, but I'd absolutely be able to First few episodes. Yeah, I was not allowed. I was I was watching Buffy when I was six I was watching like freaking h.r. Puffin stuff when I was six My sister was watching it. I was like, I want to see the cool show about killing vampires Um, but yeah, so if they were to ruin and destroy and disrespect everything Um, I would still be very it's part of uh why I try what I try and focus on in my channel I like to try and make arguments that are um irrelevant of A third party or a meta because a lot of people and I've noticed this in chat They'll be like, oh, I'm all it has a problem with what they did with luke Um, but he doesn't have a problem with what they do with spider-man It's like what a what a hypocrite and it's like well In tlj as part of the continuity of the ot the same storyline. They're just continuing it if they were to continue the comics Uh and completely assassinate spider-man's character I would be absolutely on you guys's team But when they've adapted the character if we had a story in a tv show about luke skywalker and they said it was a Complete adaptation it's got nothing to do with the continuity of the other ones And it's a story about how he goes from being a hero to a to a cowardly hermit who Or sakes the jedi. I'll be like, oh, I could be good We're we're missing a major major aspect of peter parker's Of character. I mean, we're see that's the pink. That's another big problem is there's a lack of contents context while i'm thankful They did not show poor uncle ben getting shot again a third time would have just been cruel Um, you need to refer to it. It's a major Major part of his character and you know, they kind of lightly go over his parents But that's that's pretty that that goes with the comics. They never you know until much later spoke about his parents All uh and That's a life changing moment that they are are they going to bring it up later? I don't know But you we kind of get peter parker midstream So if again as uh as i'll be i'll be honest. I can't I don't look at things Objectively that are spider-man films. Okay, because I was gonna say like in this vision Absolutely objectively i'll try to dig down because I can turn off all emotions I have this superpower ability to turn off emotions and look at something completely objectively, which i'm sure So many people can do um, it's a it's a boring movie Well, it doesn't matter many people do it or not. It's a boring movie um So like the the ramy movies mary jane watson is very important, but she's not in the amazing spider-man movies because she's just not in it uh Gwen stacey is important to those movies But Gwen stacey is not in the mcu movies because again, she's just not in it Um to say any element of a character just has to be there. That's in the form of a person I would say you're almost restricting it in terms of being able to evolve as a piece of media the idea that uncle ben isn't more important is is You're arguing for a change not necessarily a better thing that that we're we that's something we still have to learn We I mean maybe that'll help your argument. I don't know. I don't know because we don't know Well, no, I'm not that they haven't referred to it Uh, but I think what they have okay, but uh, like it's been very light And it's curious and it's something I didn't even notice until after I watched the second film I'm like, hey, they haven't really brought that up at all So, uh, let's say they had everything that you're looking for right? It's it's all there everything you want, but Right before they released the film they called uncle ben uncle john Would it still work for you? Uh Then change everybody's name on parker and this and that it's Okay, so would it work if they called it so i'm assuming you're saying it wouldn't work if they called him uncle john oh So literally just his name being ben makes it better written than his name being john That's because we keep talking about adaptation. Why the hell would you adapt something if you change everything about it? Make your own movie make a parody movie about something. We didn't change everything. We just changed his name It's like when you complain about well spider-man was a black kid It's not who he is and we should call him ben reilly. I mean objectively. No, no, no We should call we should call him Exactly. So we should call spider-man ben. Right. No, that's the opposite of your point actually no Based on your argument if any names can change that that doesn't affect the character. That's not fundamental then Ben reilly was a spider-man for a little while so you can you can call him ben reilly If that's who that should that should be objectively okay as long as we get an entertaining movie No, that's not how it works really so it's not how is it not how it works how how exactly Is that because it's the character that's important If ben reilly if you want ben reilly to be the spider-man then then reilly can be spider-man Yeah, myles morales can be spider-man Uh, we yeah, we could just make it a spider-man. Uh, if we're gonna change Yeah, that that makes zero sense whatsoever you can If you can make a spider-man movie and change everybody's name it can still be an objectively good movie Well, yeah, but not a good spider-man movie That depends on but very bad. Well, we again, I wouldn't have a problem with saying that it might not be a good adaptation. That's fine Um, I'm much more of an advocate for the character see spider-man. Yeah, like I removing all of the Let's call it the paint. Um, this is a film about a teenage superhero learning responsibility And discovering why he wants to be a superhero through a father figure and mentor While maintaining a social life alongside a superhero life fighting a villain that is very much a reflection of the world around him You'd be like, can we can we have that be spider-man? Yeah, why not? Um, would it be faithful to an adaptation? It's potentially you'd have to you'd have to do a lot of work to make sure it fits in with everything And if you fail to do the adaptation, which they may very well have happened here, um Would it still be potentially well written and that yeah, that's the main thing I'm advocating for I just want to because the problem here is that um a lot of work in writing might be Chat on because it's not quote-unquote faithful to a degree that that a fan may or may not have wanted The one I would always bring up is just hillhouse. It's not faithful whatsoever Um, but it's a really great piece of work and I would hate if if everyone discouraged the man who made it From making any content ever again because it wasn't faithful Um, so I I I understand the argument and I think it is What you would call disrespectful uh to claim an adaptation when you're not touching the source material at all I absolutely understand that argument. I think it's fair. I just um I want to try and try and look at it without looking at the source material as if it has to be that and um Again, I feel like this is an element of hypocrisy from from the other side In the the mcu itself is considered to have strong movies and weak movies But I don't know that any of the films are um an accurate adaptation from any of the comics In the mcu like you'll have ones that are stronger and nobody's arguing that nobody's arguing an accurate adaptation We're arguing spirit of the character. That's what I'm arguing. That would be an adaptation You haven't heard me bitch about the costume. I mean I could When you say spirit of the character you're drawing from the soul spirit of the character Which is what what drawing from your source material capturing Peter parker something they uh, they did excellent in the ramy films. They did excellent in the animated series They did excellent in spectacular spider-man. Of course. They did it in the comics now Since disney has taken over they have fundamentally changed the character in A lot of ways, but we're talking about something that's ingrained Eric in mythology. It's grained in the memory. We can talk about hillhouse hillhouse and compare It's it's a very bad adaptation Uh, I doubt if I asked uh, 5 000 people in san francisco, they would know what hillhouse was So it's based on how aware people are Absolutely, you have to consider all fact if we're just gonna like this is okay. This is An argument of an adaptation and I'm just going to look at this as a film by itself Well, then go ahead and adapt lord of the rings call gandalf fred Call the uh make saran a woman and uh objectively it could be a great movie Do you think people would call that a great lord of the rings movie? That's our point pretty much. No No, no, no, you're arguing arguing semantics here. I mean, I think that's what we're doing is what we're you know That is important because a lot of people are conflicting badly written with badly adapted I didn't say it was badly written. I'm not saying you said it. I'm saying that's why this conversation is taking place But the thing is, you know, people think what they think and and if they're gonna say it's badly written I understand that and uh part of they've they've They've well, that's cool. I think it's very blandly written. I don't think it's bad though. I never said it was bad um I think uh, so many people they made so many changes that people who were long time fans And this is these again these long time fans are people you need And it's not people you could just need to willy nilly forget about because objectively I want to make something That's fundamentally not spider-man because we're changing all his Surrounding characters or changing his costume. We're changing amp. May. We're not going to put J. Jonah Jameson and I mean like essentially it is a completely disney Fied non spider-man spider-man which they almost should have just called ben reilly or miles morales Probably would have been more acceptable at this point I like tom haulin and peter parker in infinity war. I like him in endgame I like him in civil war and I liked him okay and far from home But is he like definitive spider-man? I don't know I I just know what I see in my chat in all of her comment sections and in jeff chat and sometimes in yours You know people don't love toby maguire, but all of a sudden he's gotten popular again How because people aren't feeling like this spider-man truly resonates, of course We're going to have the mcu fan boys and girls out there who are just going to love everything right now Talk to me in a few years on that one. I've been through this This is my not my first rodeo with a button with what doomcock calls hypnosis people get all caught up into it And listen, you might have a favorite movie and you just attach yourself to this one. That's fine I've done that as well too to some pretty goddamn terrible movies that I love to death That suck and I can't defend but if we're going to argue that this is a spider-man film Uh, I would say it's not a very good spider-man film to look at this objectively again is just arguing semantics at this point I almost feel like we wasted our time mauler watching this one again. Okay. Yes. Um, obviously did The And I feel like I got it all wrong and I am I just need to look at things differently again Because I need to be objective about spider-man. I wouldn't begrudge anybody for not liking it Especially for the reasons of adaptation. That's pretty much what I've been on board with since the start I've been told again and again and again That's disappointing by fans that I think it's a well-written film and I'm always confused. I'm like it is a well-written film And like well, no, it's not don't you see that Don't you see and then and then the arguments I hear the most There's no consequences for any of peter's actions, which is not true There's no dichotomy between peter parker and spider-man, which is not true. There's no, um Idea of peter being his own person There's no exploration of what he wants and who he is which is not true And if we want to go through these arguments I'm willing to because it's all in the film and I feel like it's all in the film But there was no consequences not within the film. Okay, but the thing is this is a part of a film series This is an interconnected universe So we do have to discuss the progression of character and story that have happened in previous films Because they affect it because when you go to the next film there are no consequences because of the blip There's zero consequences. We ever were even missing characters. We still have a babysitter And what a lot of what happened within the frame of far from home didn't matter because It was uh, i'm trying to think back jeff Was it referred to did they refer to anything? with the villains from Homecoming and far from home not at all What do you mean not once? That that actually happened. They don't happen anymore Well, they're not referenced at all. So I don't know So are you saying a consequence isn't real unless it's a character because it's uh, because yeah, he doesn't look like he's changed at all They don't acknowledge it. So okay Let's yeah, let's do this. So what does peter learn in homecoming? What is peter's journey in homecoming? There's journey in homecoming. Uh, he gets uh, well you tell me all right So peter starts the film Desperately trying to get tony's attention as well as through happy to go on a mission The first thing he tells ned is yeah, he's an avenger. That's yeah, that's the way it works. It's done. He's like, oh man That's so cool. Um, and then he's going out every day according to aunt may and uh, he's he's fighting crime He's trying to discover things to do. He's desperate to be an avenger to be a superhero to be that guy The first significant battle he has is against these people with with boosted weapons And uh, he lets them go. There's a big consequence of his action to go and save the person who's running the sandwich shop The criminals that escape. He's like, oh well the news report the next day as um They they represent. Oh, like we've got a local crime thing happening Uh local superhero spider-man and he picks up So saves the day, uh, sort of you know, he did the best he could and the picture has spider-man with toilet paper attached to his foot An awkward photo of him coming out of a porter party and peter's disappointed with that He's like, uh, and you get this sense that peter you did you saved the guy. Why are you upset? Why would you why would that annoy you that the news report says you're lame? Who cares you're doing this because you're hero, right? Remember civil war his motivation is that uh, when you have power and you choose not to help people Then you may as well have made the bad things happen in the first place So the film's telling us already in the opening that spider-man's corrupted to a degree in his personality Probably thanks to civil war. He's played with the big guys Got this potential recognition big fan of the avengers and now he's swallowed it too much and all he wants is the recognition So the film moves on he gets uh, he's still using the suit. He's just trying to get on with his life I'm trying to draw the connection for this particular journey. So I'm gonna skip over a couple of scenes You get to the um, the washington monument, which by the way is caused by him major consequences for him getting involved in the weapons Shit that's way beyond him. He doesn't understand how they work. He nearly kills all of his friends He does save them unbeknownst to tony that it's his fault and he's celebrated and on the news report It shows a celebratory spider-man and he is saying he saved the day the whole school is very happy with him because he's Hero he's walking through the whole ways With a big old grin on his face He's done it he's achieved the label and then the next scene we see him talking to ned or I think it's the same scene And he's like, uh, all I gotta do now is bring in vulture and then I'm out I'm not doing this school crap anymore. I'm gonna be an avenger He's going upstate with us and ned is like what are you you you've already skipped out on all these classes The principal's like hounding you you're in trouble and he's like doesn't matter. I'm a hero And so peter's Getting the wrong idea. This is not why you're supposed to be a hero He's supposed to be much more intrinsic as a value of saving lives. So then Movie progresses we hit the ferry And he's approached this scenario where he has the the buyers the sellers and the weapons all in one place That he's managed to find on his own in fairness to him But against tony's recommendation because tony said the police will take care of it. This is Not something you're ready for spider-man disagrees He goes in headfirst and not only does he get all of the enemies prepared But the fbi think he's the bad guy. So it fucks up everything loads of people get hurt The water and the cars flying everywhere You see a whole bunch of like civilians getting Potential I'm not gonna say killed because it would be pretty bad if he actually got someone killed But it's it's very bad And tony's like you fucked up And spider-man says I just wanted to be like you his whole motivation up to this point is the label He wants to be iron man or tony stark. He wants to be recognized as an avenger and tony's like You're supposed to be better. You're supposed to be better than the guy who just wants it for the glory This is why you're irresponsible. You can't have this tech. You're gonna fucking kill people. You're bad It's not happening. He goes And then spider-man goes back to being peter parker spends the whole Next set of scenes in the film doing peter parker things. He's just um He builds the death star with ned both smiling just being friends He's pursuing liz and actually having some success. He's doing well in classes Spider-man's gone because spider-man was only, you know, you know, he was only going for the label He's just a hero. He's just he's fucked up. It's over then he's faced with vulture And uh vulture threatens to kill all the people he loves if he ever gets involved in trying to affect his business ever again And so spider-man's faced with the idea of What was I doing this for in the first place? It was to stop bad things from happening It wasn't about glory It wasn't about recognition And so he uses his old suit uses his old tech and he goes without a safety net or recommendations from someone else And he defeats the hero and at the end of the film He's given maximum opportunity for recognition. There's the the interview. There's all these photographers or whatever There's gonna be this huge announcement. The spider-man is the new avenger And he declines it He's not interested anymore The point was to be a hero because it's the right thing to do not because he wanted to get the recognition the label So the film Is essentially about Why he's a hero While the second film is about his identity as a hero But I don't want to go into that for rags to say because I think rags will really like the second film Yay And we can't yeah, so we'll refer to everything up to that But we're talking about consequences within a multi-layered story here and again, we can't look at this film by itself Okay, so what what what did I say that is ruined by other? Okay, what that's ruined the character for me personally. No, no, no, no, that's what we're talking about here I'm not talking about anybody else. I don't care Uh, he was talking about what didn't work for me within that or what part was your question I thought that so from what I said it sounded like you were saying that um Something damages that through line if you look at the other films heroes journey Not necessarily just just what I was describing There is a hero's journey in there. There's objectively a hero's journey not spider-man's hero's journey uh, disney's little helper boy Who who finally came out from under the wings of peter of tony stark to go right back under him again Uh in the next film he is in but for that moment. Yes He has that moment of independence But he knows because the specter of this is there he can call tony whenever he wants Whenever the chips are down he could pick up a phone and call tony stark. He didn't cut you didn't cut Ties with him. I don't ever want to see you again That would I would buy that I could buy within the film again. I've made a ton of exceptions with this film I I you know, I I don't like uh michelle's mj But ned and all that and uh the dumb flash. That's fine. I'm I'm fine with all that film It's robot in you a little bit. I mean, I'm gonna swap us to singapore. Hopefully it solves the problem Who's there who's giving you a bit of a robot voice? Do you want to just repeat what you're saying? Sorry okay, so It's it's not a true spider-man heroes journey because the specter of tony stark is always there We know even though it doesn't happen All the audience in the back of all of our minds knows that he can if he ever really gets in trouble Tony can bail him out. That's fundamentally not spider-man in any way shape or form That is not the character of spider-man. You are watching Uh a widget spider-man It's it's just not now you might like it Uh, you can't expect me to like it and I know I can't expect a lot of the people I understand why people if you're just a normie and you walk across this movie you ate some popcorn You had a good time rock on good for you Awesome, but uh, I don't think this is a great film Nor do I think it's the worst film ever made but I think it's a very very bad spider-man film That's always been my argument always will be my argument because spider-man does not I don't know how many times I gotta say it does not rely on anybody. He doesn't have anybody to rely on He is utterly alone in so many times and yes, they've changed out in the comics and I hate it in the comics too Because it takes away what made him popular for five decades We're already seeing that popularity erode now And you know with uh, we have to look at it in context with the other films And I can't I don't want to ruin it for rags Uh the the next film which I agree. I think he'll enjoy and again. I somewhat enjoyed because I've gotten over That uh, this is this is not spider-man again. This is nowhere near spider-man To explain if you haven't been a lifelong fan and you just I mean if you're just You know, you don't care. That's cool. That's fine But you can't you know, and there's probably some huge spider-man fans who completely disagree with me and that's fine, uh, but How how do you feel? well, I mean Basically, I don't really need to reiterate a lot of the spider-man points because you know I think you and I are on the same page But you know mauler you brought about how you think this is the second best written or just your second favorite film in the mcu For me and at least the four guys on my channel and a lot of our audience like I would put this Damn near the bottom. I don't think it's a bad broken film. I just feel it doesn't offer anything Not even that this we can take the spider-man fan out of me. It just is a very forgettable bland Uh safe movie, you know other movies feel like events. Yes part of its marketing But yes part of it uh connects to the culture This and like Suicide Squad and these other movies just come and go now. This is a better film in Suicide Squad I'm not arguing that but there are a lot of other mcu The reason I think spider-man will feel like a bigger deal in the mcu is because spider-man is the second biggest superhero Currently in third biggest of all time superman batman then spider-man. Sorry wonder woman fans. That's just how it goes but with You as a whole you have other movies that like we latch on to culturally that will feel bigger, you know, I personally Always will believe that the reason iron man is such a big part of this Isn't necessarily a thematic choice in terms of oh, it's going to make a great story It's it's going to get people to see our version of spider-man because they're burnt out Spider-man movies sony has damaged it. Okay with barfield movies. So like I When I heard iron man was in the film And this is the thing I went into homecoming expecting to hate it So I was told by a lot of people that it was very poor And one of the reasons being that iron man is far too influential in the film And I was like, okay, I could see why he's in it considering civil war But uh, yeah, I hope this isn't you know, iron man's film and then spider-man sort of got a bit pox. That'll be embarrassing Um, but I don't understand Really that argument after seeing it. I was like, oh, he's in the film for about Seven minutes And it's mostly I wasn't done. Okay All I was getting at is iron man is the big superhero of this like, you know, the popular culture right now iron man is it He's passed away. It's over and done with but he was it they latched spider-man on to elevate It was like a hollow product there's no To me it has some good points. But as a movie Um other films in the mcu feel like they they have a have more of a purpose This is a lot like the venom movie where it exists to make money Which most products most movies would exist to make money But at this at the end of it, it's like, okay, I saw it. I turned off my brain It was what it was. I'm not thinking about it. Like I had more Uh thoughts about the the line from guardians too about, you know, he may not been your he may have been your daddy But I'm your father. Well, whatever the line was like to me that one line had more of an impact In terms of like a character and like how you feel and how you change how you feel about watching these movies Then all the spider-man stuff because it's all just light fun and inconsequential There's no bigger picture implications. There's just I mean, I we we live in the post-Avengers world. I expect more out of this stuff And I don't feel like this delivers. It's it's just good enough. It like crosses the bar of what I would consider a fine Good movie. It's not bad. It's not broken But it doesn't elevate itself to become something that will stand the test of time I know we bring up spider-man too, but that does that I mean, I remember sitting in the theater It was like a Wednesday when the first day it came out and it's going wow that was something this one it was I also had that feeling about other disney movies too like they have the wow That was something the first avengers infinity war parts of guardians captain america winter soldier and civil war Like even just in the realm of the mcu. I felt Moved and using air quotes that you can't see I felt something this just feels like hey you go. It's it's coca-cola It's consumable and you're out and yes, you can analyze it And I'm not trying to take away your ability to or be little how you feel about it But I just I can't there's there's no meat to it. It's just very one-dimensional for of a film Okay So what I would describe as the meat would partially be the what I what I previously talked about about like this This idea that we see this story of a Teenage superhero learning What is true motivation to be a hero is like that was that was a piece of meat for me I was I loved the storyline of him being faced with the The realization of what he was pursuing was not what he actually wanted. It was just a You know, I should sort of like a misunderstanding of his own self Then there's the um The element of what is going on between him and tony as father and son the um The betrayal tony gets from him, which is residue from the fact that he's just dealt with cap Essentially destroying tony's idea of what was protecting the world now. He's got his son figure Lying to him and manipulating his technology and you know, he comes back by proving that Hey, this guy wasn't trying to do it for glory. He really did just want to protect the world So it makes the relationship stronger and it's again something of a of a meaty element to it for me um Having such a major repercussion in vulture as a result of the mcu Having him explain to me in the film Why he exists and what what it is the avengers are doing to the world when you consider their negatives rather than simply their positives that was Quite a meaty experience as well and then um, I'd have to say the climax of having him in the car with lis and vulture and he's Multiple dynamics running at the same time of a father trying to grill His daughter's boyfriend At the same time as spider-man trying to protect his identity with a girl who has these small pieces of information that On their own may be irrelevant when placed in a pattern in front of him a guy who's pretty smart Who's aware of what what's going on gets to piece it all together um results in pushing peter to this this portion where he's gonna have to choose between being This happy go lucky student focusing on his life Or to help the world and be a superhero all of these sort of big payoffs and elements in the storytelling was something that I found very entertaining to watch and if you would swapped it all out You'd called all these characters different names even tony if you'd called him bob Stork and and and the main character was that a billy guy who's talking about uh Gary I would still be here defending it as a strongly written movie And then if if you said oh it's an adaptation of the dark knight comic book or something like that I'd be like oh god. What what were they thinking? Was this got to do it? I'm sorry Yeah, like you know, I understand you're upset completely Um Though it is still well written and you know, I don't want to repeat myself I'm just saying that that's where my perspective comes from I suppose and I completely understand where you guys are coming from as well Yeah, I think that's important to understand where we're all coming from. Yeah Absolutely. Yeah, I mean there's like little scenes in there that are good Like you said when uh when he talks to peter but then it gets Take it there's so much that gets taken away at the end There's so much of the stakes that don't mean anything. Um and and again Film I would have loved I I I like uh Michael Keaton a lot As vulture I want more of that. That's a good thing. Um but um, yeah, there's little moments in it, but Just I it was not I I watched it again I I I've only watched it once since I was in the theater So I wanted to watch it beforehand and then I watched uh some of the actiony scenes right before this I still can't remember very much of it. It's just That uh, it was pretty exciting uh when he was climbing up the um Washington monument That was cool when he was uh, and then that I noticed something else. It's like he's not in new york So they were they were really trying to make this not spider-man in a lot of ways This was a this was a deliberate thing Uh that they wanted to do Full of time. No, it's just it's just different and again, this isn't something I have a huge problem with It's just interesting that they made a definitive choice to he was in the beginning But they you know have him go to washington and then in the next film he's not in new york and it's just it's just odd It's a it's a it's a weird decision. I'm not saying it's bad Uh, and it's something I didn't even notice till I was watching it today. I'm like, oh, yeah, he's he travels And maybe they're trying to make it less of a new york thing and more of a world, you know Well, my understanding was And this is something that uh Fringy actually was was talking to me about at least this this is part of his interpretation I suppose the um the scene where he's running through the suburbs It's very much not a spider-man environment Like he can't he can't perform as well when he's dealing with Houses and trees versus city blocks and stuff And so it's almost like he's struggling. He's still learning We're we're seeing a spider-man in an environment that we haven't seen in the movies before Where he's trying to chase somebody through a suburb because it's yeah, what's spider-man gonna do and we see the results He's very clumsy. He's very irresponsible He terrifies children like at one point Um, but it's obviously supposed to be an entertaining sequence and one in which he's he's absolutely unprepared for because these movies are all developing him Um, I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see more of what you guys are looking for Down the line and that what we're seeing right now is his journey toward there I'm not saying it's a guarantee and I'm not saying that you should like these movies if they do that I'm just saying that um Hopefully the the mcu can provide you something of what you're looking for one day. I don't know I don't think we will Much like the andrew garfield ones. I think this will suffer the fate of we only get all the spider-man movies You get to a certain point and then it reverts right back and that's why spider-man will always be one of the biggest missed opportunities Because you'll have the strong open and then sequel which is good And then you'll just either have a third movie. It's great and they'll revert Or they'll have this third movie that was terrible like the real third one and it'll revert And just it's all with rights and all these other issues like spider-man as a fan. You just At that great, uh run of anything like captain america His run was great iron man. His run was great and they appeared in other things with spider-man It's always like you get to where you want to go with spider-man and then it let's restart it because uh, hollywood is just so obsessed with Like this ditko lee first 30 issues spider-man. He's a little kid what she should be out of his growing pains by now He's much more of an interesting character Years down the road Mm-hmm. Um, yes Go ahead I was just gonna to go off with jeff and a lot a lot of us hardcore fans Just know what you're missing and like listen. This is pie in the sky stuff and jeff is right Sony has uh a modus operandi. They they they are definitely even though the mcu And that's the only reason this is watchable right now is because kevin feige's involved Uh, otherwise it would be battling venom and uh fricking carnage in the first movie and it'd be terrible. Um But We know there's so many good spider-man and the thing is that and this is what my worry is is we've seen peter parker So much that by the time this one's over people are going to want to go see miles morales While never have have you would never have seen the real spider-man not once close with the reimey stuff But not once and that's that's a bummer Um, it's a missed opportunity just to uh, you said that um, iron man had a great run jeff Do you think that i'm on two and three of strong films? Oh, but what I mean is he he gets to become iron man and be iron man consistently. It's like Uh, okay, for example, batman begins. I like that movie But then I like that he's fully batman in the next film That's when he's not batman and reverts back in the third one when I have a problem iron man becomes iron man Tony stark crows in that first movie. He continues to grow but he continues to be at his uh, you know His full power as iron man and he develops in an interesting way spider-man is always Um stuck in that first gear. Tony Starks, you know all the way So that's what I mean by good run It's not about quality of film It's that the character gets to advance beyond one point and we've only really had we've only had one version of iron man on film The the robert danning jr. It went to the end. It was great. Um spider-man This is the third actor that's done that where it's go it goes We're getting ready to get into the next element. You know the growing pains are over the first Archivist has life type of thing and it's like we're gonna redo it again and then redo it again And it just it's it's frustrating Uh, yeah, like uh, so if I told you I didn't like spider-man homecoming because god damn it I've had enough spider-man My an argument against me could be okay. That's you man and I'd be like, yeah, that is me What of it and then they're like, well, we don't we don't we can't actually talk about the writing of the film And then the third guy says i'm not tired of it because it's another spider-man I'm fucking tired of it because god damn they pistol over his character And then someone else is like what character and they go well from the comics which comic Well, this this particular set from this number to this number. This is that is spider-man It's like according to who you're breaking down the argument a little too simplistic about that the reason I say like Listed issue numbers. It's because everyone bitches about the samurai movies. Well, he does this he does that because they adapted something specific Uh, the one that we're talking about uh, is trying to adapt something specific too If you want what I really want is broad strokes of like the character like iron man He's not an alcoholic in the movie. They play at they tease at it, but then they get rid of it That doesn't make me hate it, but he's still that Uh conflicted man, he has other demons and I just uh take that away Someone in chat said according to mohler ghostbusters 2016 is a great movie if you just ignore the original films Ghostbuster 2016 is terrible on its own and you could have had um a soft reboot of ghostbusters that was good with women It's possible. You need a really great comedy writer if you're gonna go with that But their comedy was godawful. The story didn't make any sense. It's a terrible film Um, it would never work though. No matter how great the movie is Well, this is the thing if someone told me that um It doesn't matter what they do because it'll never be the source I would be like well, that seems stifling. I'd like to give them a shot. Um, it's very unlikely. They'll be able to pull it off I'd happily agree with that, but uh, it's possible I would say it doesn't really 16 couldn't have been good because it was all women Why I couldn't hear your mic soft but is is Are we saying 2016 ghostbusters couldn't have been good because it was all women I'm saying ghostbusters 2016 couldn't be good because Certain movies are lightning in a bottle. You can't and you don't need to try to replicate it You know, it's not it ghostbusters is not an adaptation It's its own entity and even the second ghostbusters isn't that great But the first one is how that I don't see how that means it couldn't have been a good movie Because it's what does it need to exist for like, I mean What are you trying to get at are you trying to say that if I made this, uh, oscar worthy film That's ghostbusters the remake that uh, it's you know, it it needs to exist It's great. I mean, what are we trying to get a pinpoint because I think what the audience is saying I'm curious why you've you've you've said that it couldn't have been good Because it's not ghostbusters is ghostbusters. It's one specific thing. It's not uh up to your interpretation of how you're going to change it And mold it to whatever modern settings. It's it's that one film. It's that 1984. It's all those people. It's all the Special effects artists the the editors everything. It's just that one thing. That's what ghostbusters is It whatever you make isn't going to be ghostbusters. It's your take on it. It doesn't Obviously it's not going to be a one-for-one exact copy of the original. I don't see how that That means it couldn't have been a good ghostbusters film Good they couldn't even make a good ghostbusters sequel with the same people. Okay. There's just something about Right place right time same with star wars Yeah, we can say there's a point zero zero zero zero zero one chance that somebody could have independently made A good ghostbuster film with a bunch of women, but I'd say the chances of it sucking Greatly outnumbered that miniscule chance. We would have gotten a good film Whether men half men women fucking stanley cubrick comes back and directs it learns comedy bill murray deages himself 30 years We still probably Wouldn't have got but yeah, I get what you're saying, but I think it there's just We've gotten a good good film this next one coming out you know, it'll probably be Is it going to be a ghostbusters film or a film that says ghostbusters on it? And we're even bringing maybe bringing back some of the old people. We'll see we'll see but I think Uh with the people involved there was little chance it was going to be good But of course there's always a chance something can be good Okay, for now, but but there's lightning in a bottle. I think jeff was saying is ghostbusters like terminator Okay, term people keep on trying to remake terminator terminator is an arnold schwarzenegger action film The decent tv series that nobody watched except for me Uh, but that's it. I mean that's it. Well, I mean You know, uh Like I don't even know what the hell they were thinking with genesis or with dark fate I don't know why they think that's gonna play well. I don't know who's telling them that these ideas are what the terminator Like established fan base would like to see in continuity. I don't know why they would think Any of that was a good idea. Um, could we have a good terminator sequence? Like I I feel like we could as same with predator and alien I'm still holding out hope that one day we get a movie where I go. Hey, that didn't make me vomit That was all right I think those are all dead franchises though, and I'm not trying to be the negative guy here But look it. I love the first two terminators after that. It just They don't it doesn't bring anything new to the table. It's like, oh well judgment day didn't happen Say, oh wait, we're gonna time travel with judgment day and with alien You know, the first one's great. The second one's my personal favorite and after that It just it's less and less same with predator that first predator is so tight Almost perfect in all in all these different ways. That's a movie that I will say I'll say that's arnold's best film You know the predator it works on so many levels for what it is And then you get predator two which is okay. I'm not gonna dump on it like other movies But then you get alien versus predator and predators and it it's always either law of admission returns Or just like law of admission creativity It's it's cashing in on ip's and that's a bigger problem And we can try to have you know philosophical discussions We can try to break down certain things But at the end of the day these movies exist To cash in on things from the past that were created with passion and creativity You know even star wars. I know we talk about stars on my channel every day and that's fine But like when you're passionate about a story you will come up with ways now all these things mcu Dce all this stuff is filmmaking by committee and the same approach to the script writing isn't there You don't have the same caliber of people working on stuff. That's why you get a lot of hollow garbage bullshit That's why you get your men in black internationals. That's why you get your x-men dark phoenixes these things You know movies used to mean something to a lot of people it used to be You know a goal. I want to be a film writer or your screenwriter. I want to do this I want to do that nowadays people are just always bouncing on to other things and then you know It's just a it's just a step to somewhere else same with comic books Comic books have suffered the most because you had these guys and mostly guys I'm just going to say it like that that wanted to be in the comic book industry You had your ethans you had all these people this was my goal I'm going to become the best at it and then it gets infused with all these people that are like This is a stepping stone to the next point in my career and it suffers creatively Creatively and you have very few people that are putting out a great product. It's everywhere. That's our entertainment landscape today And I look at You know the spider-man movies the same way, you know, maybe you could you can throw the nostalgic card at me But I'll throw out all kinds of other points to it But like you had Sam Raimi who's somebody who likes loves cares about spider-man on a level and it shows This guy you don't have to be you know having pictures spider-man painted on your wall like he did to prove that But you have to know your characters from know your things and this director has very little power It's all Kevin Feige in the bigger picture and it just it all suffers What would you say in relation to Sam Raimi not respecting or liking Venom? I would say that is an aviarad problem because I think from the outset it looked like Sam Raimi had a much bigger Better man's one and two when you get the three it's a producer game like Kevin Feige Do you know this just John Watts guy? I had to look him up because I hadn't heard of him before Like Mark Webb they hire these directors for spider-man films that don't have a vision, you know Sam Raimi's Vision is all over spider-man 2. I mean that scene with Doc Ock in the operation. That's evil dead Oh, yeah, definitely down to the chainsaw And running and screaming into the camera. There are horror elements all over that He has an artistic vision that some people love that some people hate There are some hoakiness and campiness, but it's still his identity This new spider-man much like mark webs has no identity. It's Whatever the current it's current year the movie with spider-man And that is I think that's another point where gary and I always get mad about like the interpretation of the high school Supporting cast it's like oh, we need to represent modern day. Whatever. That's cool Put other kids in there too to flesh it out, you know Ned Leeds is I think he has red hair right gary Dude or betty brant is dark hair and is older than him just like and that you know That is part of all the disconnect with a lot of the spider-man fans Mm-hmm. I was literally I have no idea. I was just going off I'd heard that um, he really hated venom as a character He didn't want him in the movie and though he was forced to have him was is that If you're red owns the right culture Yeah, exactly That's right and the mysterious is going to be played by bruce cambell and yeah, I actually found that out today I saw it on reddit. I had no idea that was going to be the case. I sounded like that would have been fun to see Unfortunately, we didn't get really fun to say I don't think anybody would complain if they if sony just did a one-off spider-man 4 with toby I think that would just make a ton of money but I imagine they can't can they can they even do that right now with how like the ip's working and I imagine Marvel studios wouldn't want them to be doing that with uh Oh god. Yeah The way it goes. Well, I read this uh recently if spider-man far from home makes a billion dollars then The mcu has some say in the next movie if it doesn't then it's a it's an independent sony film with tom haulin Looks like it's going to make a billion dollars. So I don't think anybody has anything to worry about I'm curious when uh, that's going to slow down for the mcu when they're going to stop because I You know call me an idiot, but I didn't think that captain marvel was going to make that much money I know I know it makes sense because it's is sandwiched between two Enormous movies, but I still didn't think like Who's who's so desperately interested in seeing this if you know what I mean, but um, yeah, it still made that much. So It was surprising for sure. Um, I think once we get away from in the game We're still in the end game time frame So and plus they're gonna announce phase four And the only movie they have in production right now is a dead person black widow prequel Who just got in a bunch of trouble with hollywood yesterday for speaking some truth scarlett Johansson did so, um Yeah, so I guess we're gonna get an internals announced. Did you know did black panther make a billion? It black panther made a ton of money and that was that's all the only one that didn't make money That's weird. That was in the infinity war time frame and I understand Rags and I'll probably agree on this one is amp a wasp in ant man. That's why I call it the wasp in ant man Yeah, that one was I don't I mean, I saw it. It was oh, it was fine. Yeah charming little movie, but The thing that happened. Yeah What did that one? I'm assuming that one made the least out of Literally the last like probably like seven or eight or more That's what I'm looking up right now Uh, within the infinity war time frame, I believe is the one that's done the worst everybody else It only made 622.7 million black panther made 1.3 billion. So wow, okay Yeah, well, so this is the thing, you know, like Causing those of controversy with asta like this will be the black people movie This will be the women movie I always think that that is it may increase sales for the people who are interested in that sort of thing But I always thought it would decrease sales to a degree as well And so it may level out or cause problems, but yeah, I don't know it works I guess for those Freakin work like a charm and it's shocking and hopefully the next one's going to be Eternals, by the way That's going to be the gay people That's going to be the gay the gay people movie That will be released during june during pride month because they did captor marvel during on uh international women's day And they did uh black panther during black history month and that's mcu, isn't He's gonna have he's good. They're gonna that's going to be their first uh, uh gay lead in a film So they're going to release it during pride because why not it worked with black panther. It worked with captain marvel and uh, well, yeah, so 2021 I think it's coming out, uh, and yeah, uh I actually the the comic is interesting. Uh, I I doubt it's going to be good at all Or watchable, but we'll see. Yeah. Yeah fair enough. Um, so the point of today was essentially just to explore The why on both sides and I feel like we've done it why I feel like we did it. I think that I'm hoping that the audience now knows Why you guys? Well, I would imagine you guys strongly represent the portion of the audience that feels the same way as you do And I would hope that me and rags do the the opposite I don't know if there's probably I can guarantee there's going to be a bunch of people like why didn't they talk about x y and z Um, is there anything else? Is there any topics related to the? Yeah, because I was gonna say um if we've got time I wouldn't mind just uh responding to a video with you guys. It's always fun Absolutely, but I just I want to say I think jeff and I are in the minority On the homecoming thing. Uh, I know like we're in jeff's chat in my chat, you know, people will gravitate to our opinions I completely understand that but considering how much the movie's making considering what uh, people say about it online, you know, mostly I yeah, I I I will concede that I am in the minority on this one. Um, but So is that you guys didn't talk about x y and z? Yes, do we of didn't Yeah, I think it'll be like the michael keaton batman thing gary There'll be that portion of time it'll pass and then everybody will kind of be back on the old Hype train and it'll just kind of ride itself out And new ones will come out and they'll accept it but people will still kind of remember the old one so I think that's where head of a spider-man and I'm okay with that. I got well. I look at it like this I'm a spider-man movie at a really important age So I it's not like I'm dying to see, you know, my version of spider-man. I got it I got it. I'm blu-ray dvd Uh, people haven't even quite forgotten amazing spider-man yet people still remember it for how awful it was if you know what I mean like Uh, like like I don't know how long it'll take I I agree with you guys because I think those movies will Into dust over time. They'll I think so and he will want people to forget them um As for whether or not homecoming and far from home, for example, we'll be forgotten I think it's going to be much harder for those films to be erased if you will because of the fact that it's a part of The mcu, so we're going to have this character for a potentially long time depending on uh happens next I I will also say I would much rather have tom haulen be the face of the mcu from here on out over bril arson Oh god, I don't know that anybody disagrees with that Jesus christ I I want this to happen. It's not like I I would rather not Yes, give me tom haulen all day long. I will learn to like it over that So Yeah All right, um, like I said, is there anything else anyone wants to say before because I just want to Jump into it as soon as I can so that you guys can spend your time with it and have fun with us before you have to go Uh, you guys are great Oh, well, let me say it's nice to have a a debate and uh, and still like each other in the end see that's how it's Shooter keeps making noises stop. I say hate me. Yeah, which is fine Well while you figure out your computer issues, I'm gonna use the loon beer up there. There you go If you guys want to catch a Quick pee break or get a drink anything is fine while I get this room ready in This video and yeah, so just to give it a little bit of a set up We're gonna we're gonna check out a video and I don't I haven't seen any of it This is the first time for me because I usually watch them at least a little bit ahead of time to make sure It's actual content for us to spawn to but I was just like how the fans killed star wars like You gotta wonder where they come in from with that argument. What do you guys think from the title alone? It's misguided Yeah, because I'm a If someone was to make the argument that we're the reason that star wars is heading downward or something like that I'd be like that's interesting. How are you gonna qualify that or if they said the We've damaged um the sequel trilogy by criticizing it. I'd be like absolutely Like and I hope that we continue to do that Yeah, just So here's a link to the um to the watch together once everyone jumps in and rags his back. We'll be able to Check it out You're right. Oh watching the lonely island. Oh, this is just a default video to signal this. Oh, I love the song I actually have no idea how the how these how these get chosen for watch together I don't know what determines a default. I wonder if it's advertising or not. I guess who would make sense of Oh All right, so is everyone ready? Dave Lee down under never heard of him neither of I For all I know this is a good video, but it'll be exciting. We'll use it as a vehicle to discuss stuff regardless Like my videos Don't forget to follow me on social media to keep up to date with all the latest news regarding my channel and my content And most importantly, don't forget to subscribe below or at the end of the video Well, yeah, there you go guys if you want to subscribe There you go Hey, do you guys ever do that like uh suggest subscribing before the video has even Started, I don't know because it always seems odd to me. It's like wouldn't you want to try and works If it works fair enough I have not done it and it absolutely works Yeah, I um, I've never done it. I've never told people like or subscribe I mean, well, yeah, uh, there's there's those are different strategies. I have and I don't think I have anyway I'd have to recheck all my old videos Star Wars the last Jedi has opened to become one of the most polarizing and divisive star wars movies ever Remember when it was that high? Yeah, it's like a bit lower than that Well, that's the thing I should probably I should probably check when this was made then because this is apparently January 11th Uh, so a month after the film came out this oh, this'll be a hot take Nice Hot off the press. I wonder how this guy's opinions changed. Yeah, it would be absurd if it has. Yeah Hands on the majority of critics are seeing their prizes. It is a damn good star wars movie This movie really made me happy So let's let's chris duck was take on this movie a lot of movie made me happy It's better than white mess Yeah, you know it's a bit extensive compared Johnson you've made a fantastic star wars movie a fantastic movie at least at least chris tuckman could probably tell us why he liked it First time I saw it. Yeah, oh you guys love these guys, right? Uh, these are my favorite shows. No show. I've never heard so these these these are part of collider, right? Yeah, oh, they were at least oh, they were well, we covered them rags. Uh, they had like there was like that freak out that um What's his name christian something and I remember a lot of video we looked at Are they It's part of the group So the guy on the right He like freaked out because correct me if i'm wrong guys But he was not invited to a star wars celebration and he was upset about that and he Busting his ass being a fan. He was being a fan Busting his ass so hard Your heart it is to watch the movies and talk about them You know much I was I was Buying action figures. You know how much time that takes I had to park get out of my car I wasn't thinking for free like these plebs the fact that he thinks that entitles him to a free invite or whatever Well, I don't know if it was free, but I did invite. I just it's just I want to return on my liking investment I thought it was utterly hilarious when the guy's just like no you'll do it You'll do what we tell you to do. I was just like oof when your opinions and your presentation is bought for you, you know Yeah, it's like man. Make sure you tell us this on air. Mr. Producer. Jesus. Good job Yeah, I always thought that was actually kind of odd in the one thing I'll give christian And I was like, why would he do that on air? Like that's gonna affect that's not It's gonna affect is how people perceive him like do you want it to be that way? I'd just be like, why are you trying to sabotage him don't I'm or at least, you know, you say uh take a break take a break right now We need to do something important to happen and then you can talk to him Not so much. I've seen it twice now and the second time I saw it I loved it the second time. I certainly give it a good time. No alcohol required. I'm bizarre That was such a bizarre thing that was happening with TLJ Everyone was saying you have to watch it the second time before you can appreciate how good it is You guys hear that a lot. Uh, we got a lot a lot. Yeah, she's like, I remember it Why do I have to see it a second time? Like I remember what happened. Yeah, you're not smart enough a second time You didn't get it you had to see it a second time because you're a simpleton I mean, you still you get you get people be like two times three times. I think is where you really get to fully understand the quality Okay, I think you're just trying to sell tickets at this point They want to they want to color your perspective for a second viewing that you'll remember more than the first So if they say all right, you need to believe it's good and then watch it Is it essentially what they're trying to do? It's like it's basically a micro version of what a con artist does And hey, it probably worked for a lot of people. Yeah, you know on my second I I heard that some people like I hit everything watched it for three times and the third time he was not bored three times even bored Good time You are a worthless freaking piece of plastic. You're the worst thing I've ever seen in freaking star wars You're the worst character. I hate your face. I hate you daisy really your So I think this is interesting So you said like people liked it and he's got these these calm civil reviews of people being like I did I enjoyed this film. It's very good. It's like and then some people didn't like it and shows this guy Breaking out a toy and saying I hate your face. It's like, oh, okay So oddly oddly, he's looking at the camera while talking to the action figure, which is weird I feel like I'm saying this to me He hates your face, right? He's like, I'm so sorry. I did I'm eternalizing all of this I didn't mean to be aware of the piece of plastic. I'm so sorry Hope you could be more human 2020 Oh my I hated it This movie took everything that you like about star wars that you love about star wars that you thought you knew about star wars And it's on it and it's on it again And then it sets it on fire and then it's on it again And i'm not great on this because I don't like where they were taking it I'm just hating on it because so much of it was just poorly thought out right and poorly written I honestly love that dude. I could have wrote a better movie like what the f*** was that? I'm just gonna say it right now The last Jedi has brought out the worst in the star wars fandom never have I seen the star wars I was like is it is it the worst because they didn't like it and if you didn't like it that means they're the worst No, because they're supposed to like it because that's what fans do with plastic bats rags That's why no fan base has ever done something so rash Uh, it was community so angry so vicious and so nasty even turning on other fans who like the movie I'm even wrong But people have been nasty about opinions on everything since the dawn of time Like it's not this new phenomenon that star wars brought out of people Yeah, humans can be at first cave art Somebody grunted that sucks. You have no talent and you're a hack and they fuck you died You don't know what you're doing Look me make antelope with hand You're antelope rug One absurdly intelligent one that's like, oh, I've really got to talk to you about your realism here. This is not representative Like what I feel like people antelope could make a better picture of an antelope Thank you Ruth and that one guy went to to france and painted all that beautiful cave art But of course he was the first suicidal sad caveman artist He never sold a single cave in his lifetime. It was only after he died He was appreciated thousands of years Like listen aug your artist shit, but once this wheel thing takes off. We're gonna make it big. All right Gonna be huge. Don't forget to sign it on the bottom. Use your hand. They'll be able to interpret that Yes, these are real comments posted on some of my All right, let's see what these say while many have expressed their hatred on the movie and the filmmakers Others have turned their vitriol towards disney. I'll pause it I thought I was gonna have to deal with this You okay, the last Jedi was a pile of poo Anyone else who says otherwise is either a not a true star wars fan or b a I think I know what that is but You are the dumbest person I have ever seen in my life. Take your opinion and stick it up your butt Your opinions suck dude. They didn't pay you right? Uh, your ranking reflects you as a sick Blank these are real. Um, the last Jedi was garbage and only idiot millennial beta males would ever like that piece of feminist crap Which isn't true. However It is it does seem to be a very broad Accuracy that I have noticed on youtube Um, you are the dumbest person I've ever seen in my life. Take your opinion. Take your blank Some of the because some of these like fade in and out of each other On some of my star wars videos while many have expressed their hate look at these comments I won't give you the one that your opinion suck. It's like, oh, no Oh, no, are you are you okay? Are you gonna be all right there? How devastating the filmmakers Just get over it It's like a gross spine. Get over it. No, man. This is the worst fans have ever been I don't know if I can never seem fans as bad Many have expressed their hatred on the movie and the filmmakers others have turned their vitriol towards disney The parent company of lucas film responsible for the made it I was about to say who are they who are they gonna blame the local school janitor? Like it's it would be disney. Why would it not be disney? Production of the new era of star wars movies disney killed star wars has quickly become a buzzword for those who hate the movie And its predecessor the force awakens blaming the studio for ruining the franchise with supposed feminist agendas Desolation of lifelong favorite characters a shift towards friendly entertainment And of course the decanonization of thousands of expanded universe. Yeah, that would overwhelm it This is not canon anymore And we'll use some of the elements of it and call it our own Which was their whole intention anyway I guess they didn't use the good ones. Well, they didn't They did not they used the bad ones that adapted them badly. It's like, oh great. Yes Stories published across printed media television and video games Which die hard star wars fans had immersed themselves in for almost 40 years The thing is though that star wars has always featured strong female characters and has always been aimed at children So do you guys remember the major criticism everyone had was this movie has female characters and it's meant for children This is bad Ed no, I don't you don't remember the oh No, I don't I don't ever remember anyone ever saying this Yeah, it's time. I've literally heard of it right now um okay The problem here isn't that I think when The problem here people have isn't that it was made for children It's that the elements of the film that are designed for children Or for laughs and comedy are in direct contrast and awkward ways tonally So the things that are happening around them That's what people have a problem with and I suppose a lot of people might assume those things are the children oriented Elements because a lot of children can't you know necessarily pick up Tonal clashes. They'll just take every scene for what it is and be like yay fine Yeah, um like uh, yeah space puffing but when Oh, so much awkward comedy and tlg so so with the lightsaber bonket on your head. I remember being like, oh, I thought this was serious. Okay It was made for children by people who don't have children and no have no concept of what these little things are They probably know more about jawas than actual children Uh, the original star wars movie was not made for children. Uh, george lucas made tried to make a movie for everybody Okay, it was just a sci-fi movie. That was PG when it came out And the toy thing picked up later as jeff knows But when it originally came out came out, of course, it was supposed to be family But uh, the hollywood often what you got you just said it well Like they try to dump things down for kids that they don't need to do, you know or make them just bad outright And yeah, people are getting choked to death. There's a severed bloody arm at the beginning of the first one it's kind of Hey, there's there's non-kid stuff in there. Absolutely People I get dude when when Anakin got like burned in the third prequel. I remember being like, whoa Kid film guys Yeah, full you don't actually like terrified. I wonder if any kid children got nightmares from that I imagine they must have been Yeah, I was seven when I saw star wars and the only thing I remember other than chubaca was being Uh, a little creeped out in the cantina scene Because all the monsters and stuff And uh, yeah, and uh, Darth Vader, you know choking a guy. I remember that that's that's stuck in my head It's like whoa, whoa, you know that that wasn't real kid friendly back then So, yeah, that's this it was a dumb argument. We've heard it a lot though a lot And it usually gets really simplified down to this film was made for kids instead of me And it's like well, maybe it's not meant for you to be like who's saying this The characters and has always been aimed at children if I want to also kids were less pussies back then so For sure How old they were when they first fell in love with the franchise I could guarantee you that almost every single one would say that they were under 10 years old In fact, george lucas has even gone on the record saying that star wars is for 12 year olds You know, it's hard for people to realize and I'm not supposed to say this And I wasn't supposed to say it then but you know, it's a film for 12 year olds Okay, so you know walley on that comment in any way. What is the what is the target demographic for a film like walley? Probably something similar to what he just said young nine And it's might even be a little young yeah 10 12 and yet it's my favorite pixoff film It's like oh, you chose a bad one. You're supposed to go for the ones that are more adult oriented. I guess I don't know. Like what it's not it's a non point to me. Um I'm just like, okay What are you trying to say that Like doesn't he think that there's an interesting element there that uh, if people are complaining about Childish elements of the sequel trilogy Non-specific and they're not doing it about the ot and clearly there's something going on Like they're identifying an element that may not be to do with the fact that it's for children because It might be something else But I just I find interesting that he's like george lucas said it was for kids argument over Oh All right. Yeah, I don't even know what the argument was but okay exactly. Yeah. What was the context george has changed his stories like 10 times over the the decades It's it's uh anywhere from uh An allegory for freaking world war two vietnam fucking kids movie whatever it's it's it was a sci-fi movie that he wanted To make at the time george had no kids So he can try to make something for a 12 year old all he wants without having the real concept of it He was just an art tour at the time and trying to again to make a good film. So yeah that argument They just pick it out Anytime something's bad. I mean it's not just for star wars. We've been hearing this for a long time guys Like it's it's not made for you. That's why you don't like it. Well, then It's not made for you either, but you like it. So I don't get the logic there It's that movies are supposed to be made for everybody Well, when uh, brie larson said the wrinkle in time is not made for white males I was like, oh, wow, how insulting that you're saying that terrible film was made for like black people I guess like what are you talking about? Exactly. Why you what do you like? You hate him so much much money Yes, oh it did it Standably maddening for those who devoted so many years to the stories But from a storytelling point of view It was the best move to keep storytelling original and concise by providing lukas film and their storytellers a fresh slate to work with A fresh a fresh slate by continuing the story What? All right Wouldn't wouldn't a fresh slate be take place in a completely different part of the universe at a different time with different people? No, okay Well, I hate that argument. I was like, of course, it's not they're using all of the things from the other films They're continuing. Well, how is this a clean slate the same actors? It's a fresh slate when they use the same actors in continuity with the previous ones. All right I don't think this guy knows what a fresh slate is Yeah, he doesn't However when presented with the facts some star wars fans will use anything they can to prove that disney has tarnished the franchise Even trying to convince you that mark kennel the actor behind luke skywalker hated the movie himself Pretty sure No, they'll just say you took him out of context You know what I like about the context arguments, right? If you have someone like luke like mark saying uh luke is behaving out of character They say that you take him out of context as if to say he said i am about to lie luke skywalker is out of character It's like that's not the context at all. What why do you think that like There's some beautiful sentence that removes the one that we're using. It's insane Using a compilation of clips like this to justify their own thoughts I've had trouble accepting what he saw for luke. I said to ryan. I said jet eyes don't give up But if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong. So right there. We had a fundamental difference That's the crux of my problem luke would never say that but what they're not showing you in these viral supercats is context I knew who's gonna say everyone does. They're just like, uh, I am Blown away. He just changed my mind on the whole thing. See the statements he just made They're gonna be invalidated in a moment by these other statements that'll have nothing to do with them And this is the thing. Um, I never claimed that he hated the last jedi I don't think there's a quote where he says he hates the last jedi He certainly didn't fucking like what they did with luke There's I don't know if there's any debate on that just because he says it 37 times doesn't mean there's not context that Reimagines all that he said and how wonderful by the way because when do you get that? When do you get actors promoting a movie getting to speak honestly about the project like? I mean to really appreciate that we're not going to get very often If an actor is being interviewed on the press for a film that's supposed to be positive And he's bringing up what you guys just said the same thing over and over and over again He's trying to send a message that he can't outwardly say Obviously he hated the film and well hated what they did to luke Uh But let's hear the context But again, I mean, I have to say having seen the movie I was wrong I came to really believe that he's gonna say that I mean wrong about what specifically Um because I'm curious what that what that actual quote was in reference to was it about wrong about how it could be executed or Because luke not giving up. I mean that wouldn't change Based on him seeing the story run through versus setting it up because it's like a fundamental I was absolutely wrong because when I cashed that really big paycheck with those Had a lot of zeros on it. I realized I like this movie as long as the money is good from this paycheck If I remember correctly the other very interesting quote from him is that um if the film is good Ryan's fault, but if the film is bad, it's ryan's fault like I remember him Basically trying to put it put out the point that as far as he's concerned luke is out of character But it might work and if it does It's because ryan managed to make it work and if it doesn't was because he couldn't make it work And you know, maybe mark's referring to the fact that it was well liked or that he even maybe enjoyed it himself But it doesn't change the fact that his criticism is absolutely accurate. This is not It's very out of character for luke considering the end of the sixth fucking episode But what you don't get is that we missed 30 years in which he went on a crazy journey that actually developed all of this We just didn't need to see it That ryan was the exact man that they needed for this job When hamill went on the wrink order to rectify his statements. All of a sudden he became the target of fan scorn So I think you guys probably heard this one as well where they're like, ah, see he's going back on everything He said and he's disappointed whatever. I always took this as um He was he regrets saying what he said because it's uh, it's just he thinks it's probably caused more of a rift between the people Who like the film people who didn't like Because they'll be using his quotes and uh Trying to represent that someone who is intrinsically tied to luke skywalker thinks he's out of character Surely that would be a significant argument and blah blah blah and it's like oh if I had never said anything Maybe people will be getting along a bit better I always thought it was like an altruistic move, but a lot of people uh would go with the fact that he's just trying to to sort of smooth over his uh set of oddest statements There's a lot of ways to interpret it. I guess I there is I I would argue that both are probably true He probably did feel bad for dividing the fam and let's face it. I you know considering marx Politics there's certain people on the side of the phantom menace that mark wouldn't want to associate himself with which is too bad because they're good people phantom menace, but um But I think he also got a talking to I think he got sat down and then went mark You can't yeah, he says he regrets it Yeah, not a not that he was regret things for a variety of reasons Yeah, not that he was incorrect or that he was sharing feelings. He didn't actually have he just simply regretted saying it Good point I regret saying my wife looked fat in that dress With fans shouting damage control and insinuate. I mean it it absolutely I think he even mark hamill would agree is damage control. He's trying to account for the damage that's been done There's no way about that. Yeah, this meme makes sense to me I Yeah, also that because of Influence from all of these sources that are like you better essentially say this and don't uh, I don't obviously this this came out before it Happened, but it's just funny to look back on now. It's just like all those hateful fans being like oh, he's just not even So do you remember what happened when he shared that photo of uh the photoshop of the original castle back together That we'd ever got to have and he got like ripped apart throat for it. How dare you I'm gonna hang out with your friends on screen for 30 seconds We've a minute of screen time jackass. That was crazy because even I was just like, why would they be mad at this? It's like, oh, apparently he's stoking the flames again. It's like how Is literally denying exist the existence of people for that picture Getting he'd been threatened by disney over his comments when hamill rectified his rectifying statements It was a lost cause Rectified his statements. He literally says in this tweet that he's enjoying the conversations both pro and con He's enjoying so that means he's enjoying conversations critical of the last jedi. So how would that be an example of him? like Bringing it back everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Look at that hamill himself There you go. It's all valid Not taking anything back He'd already lost the fans who'd blasted disney a week earlier for disrespecting him and his character Were now disrespecting him themselves suggesting that he was lying to his fans Even when presented with the full story some style was fans blind full story full story. What full story? You have to present to present that first Do we have the full story to this day? I don't think so No, we don't Who knows what happened with him and the studio execs and the people paying the bills Who knows what they said to him? Who knows Full story Complain about something Anything has still found a scapegoat in disney to blame all of their disappointments on so make way for the rise of disney killed star wars But you know something It never had to be like this disney never had to take control of star I like that he says this is if we disagree. We're like, yeah Yeah, this is all in response to something And george lucas never had to be distanced from the sequel trilogy So how did it get like this? Did disney killed star wars or did the fans? Oh Here comes the argument I guess When star wars opened in 1977 filmgoers had never seen anything like the galaxy far far away ever before I see we really started at the beginning for this one All right Can we go back to the one that is like we're we're clearly specifically talking about one singular specific film And you're going back to 50 years ago. I imagine this is fluff. I don't know how important this is gonna be, but I guess we'll find out Why don't we see george's parents having sex and conceiving george. I want to go back further Dude, yeah, we began with a big bang Little george lucas was born 19. It's like, okay. Okay. Okay It's innovative and it was all inspiring It wasn't long before george lucas a small independent science fiction movie that no studio wanted to touch became a worldwide phenomenon By the end of the 1980s george lucas was a god amongst nerds the world over star wars had spawned two sequels to form a trilogy Now known as the original trilogy. You guys know that What there was an original trilogy. Yeah From which all other star wars works are derived in some way Well, I this is why i'm asking because I didn't know I find this very interesting. They were movies Well, I thought it was a tv show, but apparently yeah, they were movies first films I thought it was it a series of elite telegram messages in code Sumerian code three television specials two cartoon serials and a multitude of books and comics Which would go on to form the foundations of what would eventually be known as the star wars expanded universe Star wars media flourished throughout the 1990s Mainly spurred on by the hype surrounding george lucas's announcement to finally produce his long-rumored prequel trilogy of movies When 1999 rolled around the hype for star wars episode one the phantom menace was real Fans flocked in droves to see the first installment of the saga for 16 years Some even camped down in front of cinemas for over a month skipped over a big thing He skipped over a major thing the the the 20 year anniversary. That's the reason all this stuff happened I mean it was behind the scenes, but the 20th anniversary was huge that brought star wars back in such a big way You know, it was kind of a slow burn You remember jeff it was like, you know from 91 to 97. It was a slow burn and things blew away like 96 and then howard stern was complaining because the I mean the theaters and they were like number they were making like 30 million dollars on a weekend, you know What uh, which this special edition so it's I know then too But it was a great time to be a star wars fan. I was it was so much fun Not as much fun these days To see the first installment of the saga for 16 years Some even camped down in front of cinemas for over a month to ensure that they were the very first to see the movie And when curtains closed on opening night fans around the world They loved it I'm curious I mean, would you guys have a have an insight to this like were there a significant amount of people who didn't like the phantom menace When it first came out or was there not? um I hated the movie. Yeah Okay, so it took time that uh, the hypnosis was in most of the people that uh My theater Did not erupt an applause. I remember walking out of it Going, I think it was good and then by the next day. I realized it was it And uh, I but there was definitely hype behind It was torn people were torn people knew it was bad, but we're saying it was good That's what was really happening with the adults. I can't speak for the kids But uh, I'm sure some kids like absolutely love that movie because it truly was made for like nine eight years old That's what I was I was like. Oh my god. He made like a Like a eight a movie for eight year olds. It was so Freakin bad, uh, but at the time though people were saying they liked it. It was split It was pretty split Oh, I remember That gary ever watched the clerks cartoon Yes, oh, yes, that's good They had a joke about it back then because that show came out in 2000 So just a few months after the movie was out. So, I mean it was there But one thing I don't think these videos take into account and all the geek culture videos is that star wars really wasn't cool The late 90s that movie came out and then people got back into it But like the a certain age group still didn't like star wars when episode one came out I went to a school where nobody watched star wars but me and then the next one and then this came out Still nobody really watched it. So maybe it was just me But I don't remember everybody, you know rocking the star wars stuff. It was like slightly older people It was it was still older people when uh, you know late 20s at the time it was gen x thing So a lot of people in their you know 25 26 27 at my age were there And they were trying to work it out in their head, but I will I will freely admit I was I was under hypnosis when I walked out of the theater. I'm like, that was pretty good You know, I it wasn't perfect, but it was pretty good But there was you know, a lot of people did this but I was with my friend dug And jay and we sat down and before it started We had that like they've anybody's ever seen fanboys the end of fanboys when they finally get to the movie And they're all what if it sucks we asked ourselves that and we got our answer unfortunately, but but by Six months had went by everybody thought it sucked. It took just some time Interestingly unlike the last Jedi Yes No, no, they're it Well, let's watch the rest of the video We'll get into the the two phases of the last Jedi hate that I found were really interesting It was incredible. I loved it. It was awesome. We got tickets for the nine-and-show We're gonna stick around and see it again. I thought it was better for the Jedi personally So it'll be a great movie 20 years from now Unless the next two really suck, but I don't think they will but then Something happened with a heart for the movie fizzled away audiences somehow decided they no longer like the movie They somehow decided Somehow decided somebody put a spell on them As if it's like magic It happens think about it. They didn't reflect They didn't actually analyze the film. They didn't actually look at it. No, they just somehow As if by magic How could this have happened? That's not what fans are supposed to do Thumbs way down. You didn't like no, I couldn't believe some of the things they wrote about The prequels, you know, I mean, but really beyond I didn't like it They hated the new characters like Jar Jar Binks They hated Jake Lloyd's portrayal as a young Anakin Skywalker to the point where he was driven into a super early retirement from acting They hated the special effects and most of all they hated George I think I deserve a public apology from George That's the uh, the people versus George Lucas, right? If so I think I think it's to do with that fans Tyrated against both the new movie and George himself and with each coming prequel the hate got worse and worse I mean, I actually think the Is an improvement Insult to injury George's revisionist versions of the original trilogy the star wars special editions and later the star wars special DVD editions with a target of backlash with fans furious that look So I think I see where he's going now He's gonna explain that uh people hated on this stuff so much George sold it to disney And so whatever disney did to it is kind of George's fault and thus the fans fault. Is that a joke? And that's where he's going unlikely I heard a long time ago. It's like game of thrones. It's all georgia or martin's fault That was very strong. Yeah beloved films with updated special effects new songs new scenes and Well, quite bizarre changes the immense. Why are you calling it bizarre? What what how did you somehow come to that conclusion? I was going to say the one that he showed for bizarre I don't I think I think you see the logic right replacing Like the actor they had at the time for Returning the Jedi with anakin's ghost from episode three. You could see how they came to make that decision I don't think it's a wise decision, but you could see how it happened uh-huh Like uh, but bizarre decisions, um Trying to think of like this stupidest sort of changes they make in in the sort of Releases, uh, I don't know having a little haven't made us shout. No. I thought that was really awkward Yeah, that was terrible And you know that it's interesting. He's calling out this bizarre change. So it's almost like almost maybe maybe There are actually reasons why people don't like some things. No, they're just hating overly aggressive New scenes and well Quite bizarre changes the immense hatred even led to the creation of a documentary called the people verse george lucas Which basically gave the star wars fandom a soapbox on which they could rally against their ones But yeah, I think that's probably what was important. It felt like they were being heard once this thing came out, right? uh a lot of people anyway It was like a I haven't seen it. I met I've always meant to watch it and I never got around to it But it's supposed to just be like a big sort of collaboration of how he fucked everything up with the prequels Um, and it's just funny to look back on that now because of what's happened Just towels coming forward. Yeah Well, I don't know who this guy is But I could tell from the questions they were asking me. They were it was an open invitation to trash george And I have issues with george, but I love that man. I would never you know, and I don't talk outside the family It's just brutal. I imagine george and he's not family to them I'm a bad mate of people a lot of people view george lucas As the antichrist Not at all Build his destiny or has he destroyed his legacy when the prequels were done and dusted the hatred for george and his movies continued Ah there you can see I hate everything making a video called I hate george lucas going over how he just destroys star wars It's like Man, he changed his tune when the sequels came about he was like guys stop being so hateful. These films are about love Films are about togetherness I mean Interesting, I guess he he he had a character arc of sorts Yeah Fans constantly took to the internet to rip apart lucas and his movies and continually harassed him in the streets The way he was treated simply for trying to entertain his fans He just tried to entertain his fans That's all he wanted to do is bring smiles to children orphan. That's Montgomery. I recognize where he is right there. That's san francisco, man neat neat neat Yeah, he's all that billions of dollars. You know how like it it's really hard to transfer that money. It's really heavy Uh, if you're actually carrying it around and all those cars he has to buy he just wants to entertain us though he does Disgusting over the few years that followed the release of episode three revenge of the sif the final star wars prequel Lucas continued to deliver interviews and with each following one looked less enthused and more broken Lucas seemed over it. He no longer wanted anything to do with star wars and continuously denied the possibility of any more sequels What if someone Else beside you came to you and said I want to make episode seven Could you see that happening? No No, absolutely positively. You're really up closing the door without any wiggle room whatsoever neck on him, man Like he changed his mind It's almost like a money Kind of for in somehow He just changed his mind somehow. I wonder what it could have been that changed his mind He gave all the money away right that uh got from Believe so. Oh, did he also change his story on that multiple times over the years because there were there was always the rumor They reported on it in the fan club newsletter called ban the tracks that I was a member of That seven eight nine were planned out not written but planned out When he sold it in uh, was it 2015 or 2014 or 12 actually 12. Yeah, the seven years October Changed his mind over seven years As it happens. Where are you Jeff? Like the kennedy assassination. You knew where you guys have no idea what i'm talking about I was in the class in college. Yeah, John. Kennedy the president. He got shot. Yeah, we know No, that that would used to be the old, you know, do you know where you are when kennedy got shot? Although i'm not even that old but i sometimes I just Isn't it oj for the nineties? Do you again, jeff? Yes oj oj is a better one. Yes Where were you? I know I I just said I was in uh college I remember the exact class guys named with dr. Newworth and all of a sudden Somebody's like hey disney bought star wars. They're making more movies and I remember standing outside at the classical. Whoa So you were uh, you were actually positive about it then? oh I was I was confused. Oh because I think that It's been I thought they attached j. J. Abrams right away I just remember vividly where I was talking about it and I even had the thought I was like, I wonder if it can be worse than the prequels and it was so Yeah, I was actually excited about it Yeah, I thought it was good. I thought it was I thought it was a really good thing I heard kathleen kennedy and disney. I'm like, phew. This is cool. Oh, this is great Uh, yeah, oh well, there is no episode seven when the new when the newest installments was The star wars is gonna be seven eight nine Harrison mark He would even tell the new york times in 2012 Why would I make anymore when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are? You go to make a movie and all you do is get criticized And people try to make decisions about what you're going to do before you do it You know, it's not much fun and you can't experiment. You can't do anything You have to do it or it could have been good This was a far cry from the man who since the 1970s had planned on a three trilogy nine movie story. Well Maybe he wasn't the man for the job after a certain amount of time. Who knows? Yeah, maybe some people they have their Good things that they do and then that's it I mean, I don't think ridley scott was the man for the job of taking alien forward after uh We we we got to prometheus. I was beyond over the moon excited that he was doing it Then I watched it and I was like, oh Okay But and someone's like, well, it's ridley scott. I'd be like, yeah well It's older ridley scott separated by decades from that original property and george Awareness enough to realize that he wasn't really he hated directing. He wasn't into it That's why he didn't do the next two But then he somehow talked himself into directing the next it was just a bad idea You know, um, like we've talked about uh on your on your channel, but like do I think joss weeden will ever make something like buffy an angel again is like Unfortunately Um, so what happens people change over time I suppose Ah Yeah, this explains it pretty much had planned on a three trilogy nine movie story At one time said would you consider playing an obiwan type character handing x caliber down to the next generation? I said one that would that be and at the time he said around all around 2011 I hope you enjoyed this special showing of the star wars trilogy as you may know the films We've just seen are only the middle three chapters and george lucas's master plan for a nine part saga lucas film continuity edited at allen count. I had that book It was a cool book you guys have that one secrets of secrets of um That one yes secrets of shadows of the empire I guess it's secrets of star wars shadows of the empire. Yeah Oh because with the red I put the red But uh, yeah loads loads of interesting tidbits in that book. I remember finding a lot of film when I was here Now she would refer to lucas's nine films in a 1996 book the secrets of star wars shadows of the empire And even in the 1980 interview with preview magazine Lucas would refer to star wars as a nine part saga that has a beginning a middle and an end It progresses over a period of about 50 or 60 years all right about 20 years between trilogies Each trilogy taking about six or seven years Lucas would also write something to a similar effect in an introduction to a 1994 Reprint are the very first star wars really curious where he's going with this Yeah, we have five minutes left man 1978 splinter of the mines eye But by the early 2010s lucas had seemingly lost all desire to complete his vision Furthermore, lucas would continually express his desire to instead return to explore star wars fans killed star wars Release to the general public. They're gonna be small topic. You said somebody. I'm gonna go man I think I think it's gonna be that he's gonna circle this around. He's like, you see It was the fans that gave it to disney Go off and make these art films that nobody's gonna want to watch Yeah, I've I've earned enough I've worked enough to be able to fail the rest of my life And that's what I'm gonna do. This was his final middle finger to the fans who Disrespected him and his artistic vision for so long. I will be directing. Yeah, they showed them He sure showed them Yep, I'm not sure how that's a cool. Yeah, a moment, but okay He's like, haha, I could fail for the rest of my life, haha That sounds fun Is he implying he's sold it he sold it to disney out of like a bitter resentment for the fans like, oh Like, all right, that's his fault though. I mean, that's also what he's not a good director He knows he's gonna fail at the next movie. He's no matter what so Yeah, good job Generally that we'll be shown anyway in 2012 after over a decade of harassment News broke that the Walt Disney Company had acquired star wars for 4.06 billion dollars far less than the franchise was actually worth Considering having only released three movies since 2015 disney have already made lucas Just wanted to make a quick sale to lighten the burden of carrying the world's most popular franchise on his shoulders for almost 40 years or or Or alternatively, he wanted four billion dollars I mean I don't know how he disseminated the money exactly, but also the idea that he's like people want more star wars fine I don't want to be the one that makes it There's a lot of he purposely Like for exactly four billion dollars. He took so much less of the money. He couldn't spend in his lifetime ever But uh, yeah Those fans make some easy cash to fund his experimental films. These are my kids Firstly to and you sold them. I sold them to the white slavers to take these things and He did seem at first however that lucas would be somewhat involved in disney's announced sequel trilogy handing over all of his treatments to the mouse house to finally complete his vision Kathy and I have been working on future star wars films. We started working with writers and starting working Uh on all the processes of doing the films. I have story treatments of seven eight and nine and a bunch of other movies and I sort of moved that treasure trove of stories and various things to Kathy and confidence These treatments would eventually be thrown out by disney much to the disappointment of lucas They looked at some stories and they said We want to make something for the fans This is such a like, uh Again, I'm just like I'm almost I was about to say like well, I'm having fun with this because yes Like the content creator here hasn't really done anything other than stitch together. Just uh George sharing his sort of I'm lying with disney. So I'm just like, yeah, okay How does this prove fans killed star wars? How we get exactly we're waiting for it. We're running out of time. They decided they didn't want to use those stories They decided that we're gonna go do their own thing. And so I decided Fine, they weren't that keen to have me involved anyway, but at the same time I said, I'm not gonna if I get in there. I'm just gonna cause trouble Because they're not going to do what I want him to do So and I don't have the control to do that anymore and all I would do is muck everything up And of course funnily enough all of a sudden with a new enemy fans rallied against disney Angry with their mistreatment of george his ideas and his saga go screw yourselves disney. I hate I hate Okay, so if something is considered bad and something else is also considered bad To the point of making another thing seem less bad This is a reasonable response the idea that you're like, you know, I will take george's movies over what they did Because disney, I mean the last jedi Or how do you how do you make something worse than that without being deliberate? Like how do you accidentally make something that horrifically bad like it's it's impressive. So we all assume Even if we didn't like the prequels that george would have a stronger episode seven eight and nine I don't even know if there's much dispute on that from people who dislike tlj at this point It's really weird, but I don't know if it was like tonight or recently But I I had this weird dream about watching star wars episode nine and it was like bizarrely terrible And everyone loved it. Anyway, you know It's weird that it comes into my mind like the the movie had literal Shots of like disney executives talking about how good the film is and how people don't understand it in the film The credits rolling halfway through the just like that was really good. That was really good. It was really good guys You did really great. It all makes sense I think fandom collectively can have evolved opinions over time That's just it. It's like we appreciate that it's crazy how that happens, but uh It's still the fans fault. I blame the fans. I do too Thank they somehow believe we'll be able to fix disney's supposed mess and restore the expanded universe to its former glory But again, it never had to be like this Just imagine a world where the original expanded universe Still exists where george lucas releases his very own star wars trilogy using his own specs and his own ideas The perfect world for star wars fan. It could have been great or terrible too. I guess we'll never know Well, we clearly very nearly had that and if it went for a decade of fan backlash and harassment We would have don't you just wish we could kind of Rewind the clock and also we could have had him sell it to sony and they made worse films than everybody Or they could have made better films and we could have had him sold it to Went in tarantino for some reason and he made a trilogy of star wars It's like yeah, all these different things could have happened Apparently we ended up in one of the shittiest timelines, but what are you gonna do? Yeah, some mandela effect. He also, I mean what's not widely known geoff You might be able to elaborate on this but uh, I I remember hearing this at the time So he wanted spielberg to direct He didn't want to direct the the prequels originally And uh, actually people were actively trying to talk about of it. And of course as george does He what he does he gets rid of people and he brought in rick mcallum rick mcallum is a Oh, he sucked by the way big reason they're glorified. Yes, ma'am Yes, uh, and exactly and that that that what's led to it But I mean we can go back at if george did this and if george did that They would have been better than force awakens on last jedi, but they still Could have sucked certainly but they would have been better than The last jedi and force awakens because at least the guy who created them would have done them And at least there's something behind the prequels, you know, yeah, they're bad, but you can argue I mean there's There's some interesting things and that is the guy who created them. So those who can't argue with that Oh, sorry. There's a delay on my end. I was sorry. I was done Yeah, I was done. Sorry the prequels. There are moments of uh, I won't say greatness But some really awesome moments visually. There's some great thematic moments These disney ones just don't have any of that and all I would say is if that Was a possibility with george lucas 789 we'd at least have the characters be a little more respected because He cares about them. They're not a product Let's put it this way if if you told me like, hey, would you like to have these films remade by that guy? And you go walk guy that guy on the street right there. His name is bob Do you want him remade by that guy? Have you like sure? I'll take bob. I'll take bob star wars. I will take bob star wars in a heartbeat Oh, go fund me bob star wars Come on. Bob five dollars for that. Maybe 10. Um Go bob you go He's heard of star wars And then they're like, what about this apple like, yeah, I'll take the apples I'll take the apple star wars. Yeah Literally like I don't picture people doing worse unless you just take the last Jedi and you just try and add more terrible things to it I don't know unless you specifically go out of your way. Yeah Which kind of sounds that's what like that's what they did They went out of their way to make it terrible. They just didn't think it was terrible DJ voices and chat said one of his last name is chipman Well We might regret uh had to go for the reins there But hey, I might even give that a shot. Why not? I wonder what bob chipman would have made that would be quite, uh I imagine it would be a funny film at the very least Oh, yeah back to This moment in time before the hatred Before the dark times and just leave it Right here. It was amazing. It was everything I thought I was gonna be in more movie was still terrible That feel when you're like you're only supposed to like media Yeah How do you even like media if you don't dislike media like it? How do you have a scale? How do you have experiences like you can't just like everything you would even be a cuban Just consume product and then consume next products The only thing fan backlash achieved is distancing the core fan base from george lucas and his creation The only thing the oh, oh Jesus Or is him to do anything Only thing fan backlash achieved. There's a lot of things fan backlash achieves is uh As this video is trying to prove I guess Was punished with four billion dollars a poor man I hope he's all right Worry about george every day. I do I Love that he's trying to sell this as an actual sad thing. He sold it for just four billion guys He's a vagillionaire. Oh what a poor like how could you look what you did gone through it Look what you did. You made him sell it for less Only four billion now. He's on the streets and homeless All that poop on the streets in san francisco. It's george Because he can't afford it because he went through his four billion These new star wars movies continues will come to a time where we never have a new star wars ever again Fine. Oh, no fine. I'm fine with that If you told me that if disney don't make the movies, no one will I'd be like, okay I guess that's just what we got other stuff We'll survive like It's okay. It's the one thing I wanted to bring up like this guy acts like star wars has to exist forever very few franchises Exist forever And the ones that do hobble on as a horrid corpse. It's like it's not a good site Yeah, you got alien and predator and All of these films that should have died at their second iteration Is a weird baton, but i'll take it They're always making new movies and books and games and comics and Whatever it is is like, well we'll find something we got plenty to do We don't just watch one movie over and over forever. Yep. Those times are over And uh, not a word of jj in this Yeah, jj Who's jacked up two franchises nor is there any comment on the film itself? Just earning this Interesting Films are just these these nebulous, you know frameless blocks and we just See them and then we move on. It's the fan backlash that ruins the chance to see more beige cubes Remember somehow people decided he didn't like them somehow may applaud and pretend that that's what you want It isn't oh, who wants? Oh, isn't it now? Did he just claim it? Is it what we want that we don't want anymore? Also, is that really yeah, I have a new star wars ever again And while you may applaud and pretend that that's what you want. It isn't you glad that he's telling you guys what you want It really is Like I really wouldn't if there was never another star wars movie made. I'd be fine I'd get over it. I'm fine with that very fast I mean remember when all the extended universe stuff was being made It was probably done under the impression that that was all the star wars there was I thought it was going to stop with one through six. I thought that was it and then I think a lot Everyone thought it would stop with four and then four five six and then one two three four five six And now one two three four five six seventy nine ten one two three four three six It's just go fuck it ever we're gonna have a hundred of them and they're all gonna be the exact same story over and over again But I mean now we're at this the point where solo movies can't even make money In record time too It made it made no money in record time record time It was it was a singularity of suck How the fans ruined solo a star wars story ruined solo Fans you're ruining everything Those pesky fans, man without them the franchise would be fine Sorry about that. I was just saying like let's just not bring up why this thing is here in the first place. Yeah It just it's a bit of irony, right? It's just like fuck you guys you're ruining the franchise It's like it wouldn't exist without the fans. It's like we wouldn't know Again and while you may applaud and pretend that that's what you want It isn't who wants to live in a world without the possibility of a new star wars movie ever again I don't know. It seems pre-tempting from this point of view. Yeah for the second time Yes, me this this this person here. That's me. That's exactly what I wanted Does anyone think episode nine is going to be this great star wars movie? It's like it's pretty fucking Impossible considering it's a sequel to those two disasters. It's like I don't think so Well, or even if it's the greatest movie ever you have a broken trilogy and you cannot excuse that Oh, well, this is the thing if you write everyone can you can't we we've brought this up before but you can't write a Consistent kylo or consistent hux. It's impossible. It's like which which continuity drawing from yeah Oh, I also I want episode nine to be amazing In an incredibly good so that when it comes out and it's incredible and it's good and it's amazing We are we're all gonna point out see episode nine is great and it's amazing and they can't say oh you just take Stuff because it's star wars like we'll have a clear distinction between star wars is that we find really good Directly after star wars that we find terrible and we'll be able to point out the reason But man, would you need a super talented writer with a lot of time? But it'll be shit and what did we get jj abram's the bad who can't finish a story is finishing the story of this horrible Okay Doesn't finish to anything ask his wife um, so Here's the deal with the I don't even know where I'm at. You know, I'm old Listen basic A salt of the earth person so I don't understand everything I get it, but I don't know where I am In is with the characters. I don't know like we're like Like we know a little bit about them, but it's those two movies were so different. What the Frack is the first order. I don't even know what it is and how it gets its money and why it exists and I'm sure they explained it a way That oh they didn't explain that much in the original trilogy, but it is 2019 and we need a little background. Um, what is the resistance really just seven people and uh, Oh, they'll be restocked. Everyone will be restocked in the new one It'll be game of thrones Okay, respawning. They're all back. They're all they're okay. Some great I'm the next trailer will probably have some shot of like a big space war and it'll be like, uh, great Yeah, you have po leading a fleet of um fighters into the heart of some giant machine Destroy it and we'll have a shot of kylo and ray facing off of their lightsabers and a shot of luke Maybe as the the ghost and just be like, yep. Yep. All this stuff. All right, bring it on. It's gonna be great so like If you had to buy an action figure of one New sequel character, who would it be? It depended on it. I love the new character. Oh Yeah, yeah Like just just one of them if you had to pick if someone was like, all right, little timmy You have this here's your money go to the toy store And buy a star wars toy one of your favorite new character And you're at the toy store Who do you buy maybe po? It's found c-dow's character in the beginning of the force awakens I would buy one of him because it's max font c-dow but po probably Is the only I like to this is the thing and when I when I look at tfant lj I don't listen to the whole like po was the evil naughtyman throughout the whole film and he learns to be good at the I was like, no, he was right the whole time. He just had a bunch of idiots surrounding him Which is unfortunate for him But you know what are you gonna do and you know if anything he has he has a he's a tragic character arc The idiots telling him he was wrong Convinces him to make a huge mistake in the end of the film and veer off from destroying the canon That's gonna obliterate his team They they instilled a sense of low confidence within his character. That was his arc. He's he's regressing Oh, yeah, that's a shame. But you know Riders were so bad that they thought By writing somebody Somebody who was in the wrong who was indeed in the right the whole time the writers didn't recognize that And when the film ends po and now of course they didn't do that purposely and you guys don't watch star trek and thank god you don't because You value your minds and your sanity, but uh, the same exact thing happens in every single episode of star trek discovery It's pretty phenomenal how bad it is I just listened to red letter media talk about it. It's much better. It's much better. Oh mike Have you seen star wars? Not me I for one I love star wars. I love all of it. I don't think it's dead at all In fact, oh, all right, then. All right. All right You you love even like all of it like even the bad ones you love if if you love the bad ones Then what's the point of your love exactly? Maybe he thinks they're on a value What value does your love have? He loves it unconditionally love is worthless To a franchise the films of Very varying degrees of quality like holy shit Like even if it's shit, I still love it. It's like well your love doesn't mean much Well, I was gonna say at that point it's like, oh, so you just need your lightsabers and your spaceships and um I don't know desert locales and then you'll be good. I'm guessing there's nothing to do with the writing It's like you're just a mentally handicapped person Clapping at a screen as bright colors flash in front of you All right That brand, yo Yeah, ultimately would have loved to have seen lucas complete his nine movie vision I think disney has breathed into it a new line. So do I so do we now Breathed into it a new life Yeah, I would love to see A picture of sort of like adult male walking around the disney breathe into it He just like crusts over and all of his skin starts to go like thin and pale And he just like slowly turns into a skeleton. That's what they did to style It's like this relatively Healthy, okay, dude. Just live in his life. So that's what style is this. Okay fine. The disney are like He's just fucking falls over and tends to a pile of ash They breathe new life Makes total sense But if you really do believe that style wars is dead don't blame disney who thinks that well People don't people don't say it's dead because it doesn't make money anymore Like it's alive and well in that aspect. I think people would define it differently Like literally with every person what it means for a franchise to be dead Yeah, it's like game of thrones is dead for many people. It's still made made a shit ton of money And has the highest ratings of the latest seasons was clearly not dead. You're like, uh-huh, okay Legacy is dead Yeah, if you want this thing to get me if star wars is gonna end right now, then no, okay They they made their money They made their money back and if they don't produce anything else they put a little Cherry on top of this and it's done then I guess it It's not dead. They just ended it But it they wanted to continue obviously and it's dead. It's very dead. The legacy is dead. People don't care At least it's at least relatively dead Like this is the biggest franchise on earth at one point and now it's kind of like awkwardly trailing a lot of franchises I look at the trailer reaction for episode nine that thing didn't scratch the surface compared to spider-man I don't know. Like it was very interesting to see the the mcu pass up star wars. Yeah, it's uh I figured it would happen. I didn't figure over to happen this fast Uh, we'll see how long but Is dead don't blame disney blame yourselves Oh, I killed star wars nice one rags I I didn't mean to I just meant to wound it Shot at the foot I didn't didn't mean to go for the kill shot Oh Like at least we know to blame you. I pointed out how shitty it was we can redirect the hate towards you now That was um lightning out of hate for a lot of people anyway You did But you didn't you haven't explained to us why no no you spent 60 minutes just to tell us that He told us he told us the Still does the lucas was upset with people telling him he'd made a bad film and so he sold it to disney and thirst It's our fault Oh So if we told him movies then we wouldn't be what well the part that he forgot to mention was that uh It's also george lucas's parents fault for birthing him and then it's their parents fault for birthing them And then it's I guess Rags parents fault for sure for killing for creating the person who killed star wars and then whoever invented film Like whoever invented projectors Do you go back in time to kill my parents to save star wars? It's a it's quite a conundrum. That's the big question, man If you're first time viewer to my channel and you've liked this video and you'd like to see some more then please Not really. No, this don't know this video is terrible. It was a waste of my life Wait, why is one of his videos that are recommended star wars is dead to me? That's him too. I guess he's making Maybe some parody or something. I don't know. Yeah I don't know. Maybe The star wars is dead to me star wars fans keep killing star wars So we had how star wars fans killed star wars how we keep It's how star wars fans really killed solo Did the solo boycott really work it's like well it lost money Well people that's the fucking argument about captain marvel the captain marvel boycott didn't work because it made money As if a boycott means that a thing cannot make money It made money therefore it's good. Oh, that's a good cause it made money. Oh, yeah Oh and star wars fans resurrected star wars and then killed it again. I like the idea that they killed it several times You pesky star wars fans. You won't just let it rise again as a zombie corpse. You have to keep knocking her on the head Like how x fill in the blank youtuber died Oh, right. Yeah, there's like a million of those for great underage And then he keeps like potentially bringing his channel back So people have to like remake the how he died videos because he stops again for another year So they're like, oh now he's really dead Yeah, I think that um the way to definitively declare that star wars would be dead is that they stop making Films due to the fact that they can't make returns on them like they're releasing films that just aren't making money That's when you know the franchise is fucked Yeah, then you'd have to wait a bit down the road for a reboot that gets people interested or something Like a tron or whatever And you know that happened with solos so whoops Not to say that that'll happen with episode nine. I think that people will be interested to see how this trilogy is going to end but uh Who knows after that who fucking knows dude? No, not episode down will be great They're gonna they're gonna tie up all their loose ends. It's all gonna be neatly wrapped In a clear concise logical manner Imagine they did that like unironically like all four of us come out of cinema and we say that was an amazing film I mean, I that's what I want, but I don't think it's gonna happen I'm just so unlikely because it's like, oh my god, imagine We're gonna get force ghost han Well Han Solo force go why not I want force ghost, um Gary force ghost, um Puffins, what are they called? porkins Porgs porgs I want force ghost porgs Then all they do is go All film they just crawl up on dashboards And all the kids clap it would make for a great film undeniably Forks really are what make star wars star wars. I loved the porgs Like jeff's video cooking one that's that's my favorite thing about them They taste like chicken I would hope so Fucking chewy wouldn't be eating them if they didn't taste good, right? That's true. That's like the most significant thing he does in that whole movie is eat a pork So really is true Well that puts us at the end of that video, uh We're at the um The three hours and I I believe you guys said you had three hours free So if you don't feel that you have to uh Stay any longer, but I will make sure to you want to get you guys want to talk about your channels for a bit I'll I'll have jeff. Do you want to go first? We'll get you get some shit plugged here You guys can be found in places how everybody way Hey folks, well, sorry, I had some connection issues So my uh, there was a slight delay when I spoke That's why it sounded but I host the channel world class bullshitters. We've been talking about star wars. We talk about geek culture How the entertainment landscape is crumbling thanks to disney and all the stupidity that we see every day So you can find me over there. We put out videos a couple of times a week We have a podcast every thursday night. Thanks to disney. We're real interactive with the fans So if you guys are looking for something to uh, you know get involved with we're over in the fandom menace Gary's a part of it. We cross over all the time and uh this tuesday night on my channel We have a show called the high council, which moller will be a part of now So, uh, that'll be nine p.m. Eastern standard time. You can figure out the rest of the world and uh, moller is always Thanks for having me on man. Absolutely sir. It's always wonderful. Um Uh, gary, would you like to share a few words about your channel? Sure, uh, I'll keep this very brief. I talk about stuff. I don't like like star trek and star wars I talk about stuff. I do like like the orville You kill and uh, I and I enjoy killing star wars I want to kill it some more later right after I get off the air. I'm gonna continue killing Because you know, I just want to copy rags basically Uh, that's what we're all doing here on youtube though I just want to inspire a new generation of star wars killers Who are doing it so well? Uh, I'll be live tonight at 6 p.m. on my channel with Doomcock you guys might remember doomcock and uh, we do a show called the Inquisition where we put pop culture on trial And tonight we'll be talking about The female 007 All right, which is kind of a hoodwink it. Oh, yeah, there's a female 007 That article is a bit of a bait though, right because I remember seeing the title and I was like they're making a fee And then it was like is it something to do with Uh, in the film there's going to be an acting agent 007 that he's going to Do you probably have a much more information on this than I do They have replay, uh, the the basic premise of the film is bond is retired So he's in Jamaica and 007 is a code Right that gets assigned to specific people So they assigned it to a woman And I think it's either a a very clever way to appease the 10 people on twitter who want a female bond It's like here you go. You got it right here within the same movie and it's Lashana Lynch from uh, captain marvel By the way, so it's it's the plank of woods person friend It's such a great role. I It was amazing iconic. He stole the scenes iconic She she had the as good of a blank expression as brie larson did I will say that Um, so she'll be playing uh a 007 so that uh, but phoebe waller bridge from flea bag Is writing this and this was her idea i'm thinking Be either setting stuff up for the future or They are just going here's your female bond within a movie and now we're going to move on and actually just do bond stuff Which would be nice, but Sounds like it's gonna be you know Yeah, well, there you go. You can catch coverage of that on uh, they'll be on new drotic, right? Not brief my apologies I don't do anything brief and uh So thank you for having me. Thank you rags. Thank you Mahler and jeff. It's good talking to you. Uh, sorry. I got to cut out and thank you everybody in the chat You guys are brilliant and I'll keep listening in the background if you guys are gonna stay on so if you want to talk shit That's fine. I understand We got well, uh, I imagine both you're gonna hop out and then mean rags will be uh Just chatting while going through super chats. I think we'll be the plan We'll uh, we'll kill star wars a little bit more. I got a few uh, I got some time today nothing else is going on So I figure I could uh get in some star wars death Resurrect the old star wars and kill it again Then um, let dinner settle Maybe a little dessert and then back to killing star wars It likes swimming. Do you have to wait 30 minutes to kill star wars after you? Okay, well if you get cramps while you're killing star wars that impacts future star wars killing down the road It does you want to pace yourself you want to play you don't play the long game when it comes to killing star wars You can't kill it just once apparently no Three times a day Yeah, so yeah kill star wars um kill stars Thank you guys for coming on. It's been great, honestly Yeah All our hive you on soon and yeah, I'll see you both soon enough. I imagine That's Tuesday night. It was day night. Yeah, dude Tootily doodles So glad they're gone Now we can kill star wars in peace how much I could I've because I've been all this whole time I just wanted to talk about how much I love star wars, but I didn't want them to kill me um I since since it's nice to have like a sort of three person thing I've actually said uh, jay can hop on if he if he'd like to so while we're just discussing topics I don't know the jay guy is some people like him. I'm here get um get here. I'll get dev on who? Short fattotaku. I'm gonna message him. He's online. I mean Wouldn't he what do you want to have him as a full guest rather than coming in on super chat? Right. All right. How about let's get Let's um, let's get um Let's let's meet a jay here Let's meet jay. I gotta I gotta find a way to get how about Um, why not fringy? I don't think I think fringy's asleep right now Fringy's asleep because he lives on the bottom of the globe I mean, he lives on the opposite end of the flat earth disc that spins around in space that we all live on How do you do jay? How are you? Oh, I'm doing great. I'm getting criticized at the moment. It's really fun on your video or on something else Oh, no, um high tops sent out a tweet. Uh, I just made a response to a high tops video on um Far from home funnily enough that kind of fits into the stream today But uh, he tweeted about it It was it was a relatively harmless tweet. He's like, I'm glad you got something from the film. I didn't I'm like It's not what I was talking about but okay I haven't seen your full video yet. I saw a bit of it Uh, you see yeah, that's like That whole tweet is just like all of the replies like wow, what a pretentious cunt that guy must be like what about you? Yeah, oh You're not you're not pretentious. Yeah, the other thing maybe but pretend you are you are cunt though Yeah, you're not pretentious I mean, you gotta give credit where credit's due. You're very down to earth cunt Yeah um But how is your how's your how's the response to the video going? Is it relatively positive? How's your oh, yeah, it's uh, it's positive most other places but um Yeah, that one tweet thread is like Yeah, but it is like if if a tweet thread for me started with all regs. Who's attitude that's a I mean I wouldn't even finish it. I'm like, this is pointless. I don't even care interestingly, um, like everybody wants me and rags and and wolf and uh, and fringy I imagine to see the the high top videos and we're gonna be looking at them next week. That is the plan And we'll be having had adversity and fringy as guests because oh, yeah I I meant to I for some reason I convinced myself that I said it, but I guess I didn't because a lot of people have been asking um, wolf isn't on this podcast. He was unable to make it and um He won't be able to make next week's either We're trying to re re sort of redo which days are doing what because I think that he's uh, sundays are now unavailable And it might be turning into saturdays, which is good news for a lot of people. I think unavailable on sundays Uh, well, he's working sundays now apparently. Has he adopted a new religion where his services on sunday are required to be Devoted to the lord sundology. I see They worship sunday. They worship sunday tawna g Um, but yeah, I have seen his video and uh, Man when he says that um You can't have Someone who's trying to like move on with their life and pursue things while also grieving Something he says like these two things cannot go exist Yeah, it'll be interesting It's uh, yeah, you know, so everyone will be able to see our response to that eventually and yeah Well, what did you you you were here for a lot of the debate jay? What did you think? um, I think homecoming is good and It's also different from the comics though, which like I can understand why people would be upset about that But it doesn't make it not good I agree. Well, yeah, I mean that's pretty much where we stand. Um I think I think they they sounded like they were on board of the idea that it was uh decent in terms of storytelling, but they They were staunchly against the idea that it's can it should be considered a strong spider-man story, which is uh I think that's fair Um, if I had read the books the comics the idea being that to be a strong spider-man story You'd have to be adhering to the source material. Uh, if that was your metric Um, I'm not like I heard like the first half of it and then I went away But uh for the first half of it I was basically hearing them go oh, yeah, but he doesn't have you know It takes away his agency And then I mean like he does have loads of agency just he doesn't build his own suit That doesn't mean he doesn't it's like loads of criticisms like that that I was like Yeah, but he does do that just not in the exact way he does in the comics So Like I said, man, well if someone said that he was like, uh controlled or Sort of pushed left right and center by Tony in the whole film I just feel like he pretty much subverts Tony's instructions throughout the whole thing um And some of it to his benefit some of it not um, but I should yeah, I was gonna say Donna Have Hopefully the discussion was enlightening for people who didn't understand one or the other sides. That's the main goal. I think Because um, I wouldn't want to argue for it being a faithful adaptation because I don't think I would have any capacity to I just wanted to talk about it as a gems of writing I have no idea how faithful of an adaptation it is Uh from what I hear it's bad Like because it's certainly not just those two It's that the thing that is like so many people come and go Oh, it's a bad adaptation because of things like oh, he doesn't have agency in it when he does It's just that's the the thing that What I often hear is the he should have Almost strict agency in the same way that Iron Man has in his solo film Like he shouldn't be in any way shape or form sort of coddled in any way like I said any character no character should be of I don't know telling peter what to do or how to do it. I guess I don't know Or it seems kind of arbitrary at that point like he's the same character, but he's in a different situation Well, this is why I said I'm on board with essentially doing anything with a character if it's well written are you Take uh take batman and make him kill and you're like, how could you do that as against his character? I'd be like, well, I mean You know, there's gonna be a storyline. I I don't know if people consider the dark knight batman to be Like an assassination of batman's character, but he kills Harvey Dent in that film No, it's not like the comics And that's another thing. I'm pretty sure there is a batman comic where he kills somebody, right? I could have sworn I've got loads of angry fans telling me that um, he does kill in the comics even though I didn't say he didn't well Yeah, and so yeah, that's the thing. Um, I'm gonna start reading these and this is going to get Awkward probably because there's going to be a couple of super chats that are going to be arguments in favor or against Certain topics and we're going to be able we're going to be talking about them without The other half of the debate here. So we'll have to do our best to try and uh Represent But uh, yeah, the first one is from James Moore. It just says so it begins. Like yes, we did it We managed to complete James. Um, my uh, my switch arrived So I do have it or those of you don't know James Moore bought me a switch So I got it They arrived I have it and you have which games did you say was it smash brothers? I got smashed with it. Yes I'm still and because I will be carrying it around I I opted to get a really nice case for it because it will be Used and I will transport it from place to place. That is the plan here I'm still doing the spirit mode or whatever. I think it's called I'm like I've uncovered about three quarters of the map. Holy shit is that mode long, but I'm having fun It's spirit mode. Yeah, it's like you you're on this giant map and you fight Those are different sort of modified battles. It'll be like this battle The enemy is metal and you stick to the ground. It's like, okay Okay, um, some of them are really fucking hard, but Yeah, I'm excited I'm really looking forward to playing smash. Uh, my sister told me that mario kart 8 was really good Yeah, that's when I'm also excited to play a lot of uh, love for that game as well Um second super chat. Hi rags Hello Do you guys hear about 007 being a black woman in the next film? Yeah So as we were saying just before he left, I think it's a sort of bait It's supposed to make us think that that's happening But apparently she's taken up his code name while he's retired and he's gonna get it back I don't know apparently that's a plot in the film 007 has always been just a name that like It's a thing They call James Bond is the thing is that James Bond has I think he's always been the 007 has always been James Bond is the character 007 is the code name It's a designation that's given to people for them to just Which harshly explains how it is that all of them at 007 and it's one big continuity, right? Is that I should know more about this because i'm british, but I I mean it's blasphemy, but I actually prefer the mission impossible films to James Bond films But I am a traitor How could you a fallout isn't good. You have to remember multiple faces Oh, no, you have to remember multiple characters Can you imagine a world? Oh feels bad man. I can't I'm not entirely certain on this, but I swear I remember like there's a bond film where like the previous 007 dies before bond becomes 007 or something, but Bum, bum, bum, bum, you know whatever James Bond double It seems like the kind of thing that people would beat at the moment because it gets so many people angry and talking about it Oh, yeah, dude If they make if they make the new 007 after Daniel Craig goes like a black woman I imagine it's like well, we're gonna be hearing about that for a long time Yeah, and it's gonna do really well for the movie because like You know, there's gonna be the people who are like, oh boycott and then for everyone who goes boycott someone else Is gonna be oh, I wonder what this is about Um, hi rags Yeah, hello. Hi. How are you the one after that is my wife left me Oh, I'm so sorry about well. No, you're a free man Your shackles have been released You can stay up however late you want you can eat whatever you want from whatever containers you please You're free you did it Oh, look, this one says mohler. Hi. Hello. They don't say hi to me that much What's up massives? Yeah, live in the massive life. Um, how are you guys doing today guys doing okay? I'm doing all right. Yeah I think jay's upset about the response to his new video Yeah, everyone is wrong Too many bad takes in the world It begins people love my videos. I think they're great. I like your videos too rag is Yay, I think you'll like this next one. It'll be great Praise the cosmic early this morning and my internet went out and I was like in this Oh, and I was really powering through it and then the internet's like Oh you kill self Uh praise the cosmic chicken. I thought you lads cancelled the stream. No it went ahead Uh, can't wait to hear the arguments from both sides again. I hope that's what was achieved Um, ultimately by the way because I know people are asking me about this It's like would you make a video for a homecoming? I do want to eventually It's gonna be a long time because I've got a bunch of other things I want to do but um with the amount of Just looking into it extensively I think there's a lot of stuff I'd like to express in a video about why I think it's Essentially the second strongest movie in the MCU um But like I said, I've got so much other stuff to do You know estimated time of arrival five years from now and that might not actually be a joke I did say arrival. I mean Wasn't the uh, it wasn't like your estimated time of arrival for he's part three like three months ago though Did I have an estimated time arrival for that? I thought I thought you Predicted that you were gonna get them out once every month. Oh god. Well if I said that I was very wrong But um, I remember I was like two months or three months late with part two. So Yeah, basically whenever you expect me to make something times it by like a thousand and then you'll be you know Happy because I'll bring it out early because you wouldn't be a thousand years old by the time it brings out Yeah, assume moller is never going to make another video in his life and you will be a Very satisfied customer. I can I've noticed there's this unrest in my in my fan base Like they're like, what's going on making anything? Um, I can like I can upload a screenshot. I'll probably do it on twitter. Um soon I'll put a screenshot of like like my timeline right now with uh the game of thrones video. It's enormous It's hectic getting everything in order and all references right and not to mention proof scrubbing the shit out of the video to make sure what i'm saying is As accurate as it needs to be has been uh has been trying But um, it was only a month since my last video and I tend to take Like how many months am I allowed before I have to make a video jay. You're my manager. Tell me Uh, you're not allowed any time off you have to meet really like if you've not released it Okay, right if uh enough time is elapsed that people have finished your previous video you have to upload another one Yeah, if to be fair if you make a video and it's an hour long Then that is plenty of time for you to make another video and put it out. I mean that video you maybe That's an hour video. You have plenty of time You know, you can slow down footage, you know, you're not even making your own footage using other people's footage. How hard can that be? That's true. That's true I fucking did going about it all wrong. But um, What's funny is I've been on nerderotic stream like I want to say three times in the last month or so And uh, every time if you keep listening to it, you'll you'll catch my progress at my video because I'm working on it But whenever I'm like talking to people typically unless I'm playing a video game for a bit And uh, I think the first time I was on with them. I was still writing it and the last time I was on with them I was talking about how I've got I've got like Uh 15 minutes or more of of the visuals done Which is we're getting close folks because when I'm on the visuals part things go much faster Yeah, they take ages, but it's usually the last phase before you know q&a or qa quality assurance But yeah that Basically when I show my friends and I go is it good and they go um How do I put this? Oh And they send me lists of everything being wrong Morph egos blue cream And so but I am considering um doing tfa part three and then game of thrones episode six of eight instead because People really want more star wars content and I've got it all written out. So It's really a man. I want to make both of those projects. It doesn't necessarily matter which one comes first In this case because episode five is the one that really fucked pushed me off Take me ages to explain why Yeah, why are you talking about spider-man spider-man is coming out Not for like another spider-man three is not coming up for like three years probably Qa quality insurance. I said quality assurance assurance not insurance. Well, you also want to have insurance for your quality That's true Also, if you make a shit video you get paid Yep But you've been paying the whole time. So even when you make good videos you pay a little bit Oh But that also means when you make a shitty video, you know comes back Rags liked your video on far cry Oh, thanks. I'm really glad I really glad you did That game was okay The hell is this more. Please say nico nico ni anata no heart ni nico. No, okay. What is this? I I'm very concerned about what it might be Look at it back. Do you think something bad? Egao todukeru Izawa nico nico ni anata. I don't want this getting spooked Uh far from home is second only to spider-man two. Oh lucas ever. It's really liked far from home You're gonna go are you gonna be able to see it within the next week rags? Yes, because uh, yeah, I'm very very curious what you're gonna think The homecoming debate let the chaos begin. Hmm Um, I don't think it's important for a story to have a theme or lesson to be good. I'm no writer But what do you guys think? No, I don't I don't think you have to it doesn't have to no they can help, you know, but Yeah, it's a nice binding and it'll definitely give a strong subjective sort of um Feeling for a lot of people to feel like everything came to a point. There was nothing in the movie that wasn't relevant Uh Not only it's it's own let's say character progression all part of the plot but also to a big old hole It's very satisfying for a lot of viewers Oh, yeah Early wolf is here. Hello What do you do? Hello wolf So kawaii Kawaii Nidrata come over here and massage these tits you sexy fuck eric you make some very strange super chat I wonder if gared's seen that life Uh There are two efap references in my new witcher 3 review when efap is over come to my channel and give it a watch Let's mark the cyborg spelt with a c then mark spelt with a c Oh, okay Not cyborg wait, it's cyborg cyborg is wait cyborg isn't spelt with a c No, no that one is too and it's all one word that um, yeah, he's got he's got references to efap parents Oh, okay. Also. Hi rags Hello Hi Why are we still talking about homecoming the lion king is coming out next week? I know Oh god, it looks like an abomination But I saw the uh The singing bit and the comparisons. I was just like, oh, it's even worse than I thought it was It's like I don't understand how people were comparing um The like the facial elements that were comparing it to rocket raccoon from guardians They were like, how is it that he's so much more emotive than like every animal in the film so far that we've seen and I was just like I I don't That's what makes rockets so great too. Yeah rockets awesome Wow, you can't wait to see him in Thor Here is five dollars in celebration of catching your stream in the first five minutes instead of the third hour Well, excellent. Yay Uh, hey rags, when you're gonna get kiyoti onto efap No, that is so No, that he's from he's from sargon's Discord, he's he's special. Oh, okay. He's a special man We need a new tonal slash jarrod for season three and four There you go. Well people say that clean prince gaming is actually worse than tonal um, is that Well, yeah, because I know him is it's the alternate um Sort of him and tonal the are essentially the same thing Clean prince gaming has the exact same like thumbnails and takes and subjects and stuff As far as I'm aware like we still need to cover him I I've said that before and yeah, it feels bad that I still haven't managed to do it But there's a lot of things we say we're gonna cover on your own It'll happen at some point, but he's worse than tonald He probably has a lesser entertainment value, but I'd be surprised if Maybe maybe Come on. Moller is just an adaptation if you're referring to the lag jig It could have been good the live action like it could have been good Yeah, could have no reason why I can't be and it might actually be faithful for all we know to the adaptation Not necessarily in visuals, but in writing Good, I imagine I think it is actually isn't it supposed to be a one-to-one. That's what I've heard I haven't seen it. Oh really if it's the exact same thing in the story, but it looks that ugly as fuck Why don't I just watch the original? Yeah, um, maybe it would have been better for them to have adapted it and taken some liberties and Hold a different story. I don't know It probably wouldn't because we know like it would in theory, but then in execution they'd fuck it up It'd be like yeah, probably I was gonna think of an example, but then I remember that I haven't seen the film Yeah, um, but the yeah like it being bad The the the argument of it having like a horrifically bad Emotional sort of representation on the character's faces. That's not even got anything to do with it being an adaptation or not That's just a That could be an element that's wrong with any movie. Yeah, that's just technical shit Which you'd think they would nail but okay Um, awaken my masters also why are you talking about spider-man black female 007 is announced slice and dice brothers Here you go musually although. I love Jeff Jeff and gary. I can't wait to Hear them admit homecoming is great and hear their arguments fall apart I mean it was more is it was it was two arguments being argued at the same time that I think were both valid But different it's kind of confusing There's definitely a lot of words involved that could have overlapped and stuff, but um, hopefully you got what you were looking for Uh rags. I'm looking to build a pc money isn't too much of an issue. So what parts do you recommend? I would recommend a case And a graphics card is a definite. Yes. I'm gonna say I'm also gonna say yes on a cpu You're gonna want one of those babies Um, but I mean it depends on if you want anything. I mean it depends on What you want specifically it depends on what frame rates you want to play but I'm actually not a huge tech guy I haven't really been keeping up too much with a lot of the new a lot of the new components and things that have been coming out So what I would I mean just in terms of general information I normally tell people that if you're going to buy a pc It's generally good to splurge on it because it'll last longer and it will give you far more in returns than if you skimped So that's my advice And yeah, he said he said money's not too much of an issue But I'm imagining he would want value for money not just to buy whatever. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah But if you can generally get something that's better and will last longer and just give you better performance Go ahead and go for that. That's me though Also wolf once you're done with the efap book. I'd love to work on the screenplay with you if you're interested Well, I think that they're calling a sex tape a screenplay now. No, it's oh Yeah, that'll totally get adapted to screen and uh, it'll either be like the best faithful amazing adaptation or it'll be like Really insulting to efap lore and the hardcore fans will be very upset by the representation of the cosmic chicken And they'll probably fuck something up like, um, who do you get to play such an integral? Yeah, they'll probably get like michael sierra and we're gonna be like no, he's supposed to be kyle bann You guys have fucked it up Um those changes on mcu spidey are apparently because sony don't want disney having more of the rights Midnight's edge has a video explaining it I'm not sure which changes you're referring to specifically, but yeah fair enough Jeff give me a kiss I'm sure he would have if he was Uh rags doesn't apostrophe come after a name that ends with an s It depends not always Oh, it depends. I'm Like is are you trying to like not for plurals? You're trying to do possessives then. Yeah It depends. Um I mean like what are you trying to do to the word that's it depends on what you're trying to do to the word Put on apostrophe after it if it's possessive then yes, unless it's it's in which case you don't Yeah, because he said a name that ends with s so Typically you're gonna have an s at the end of a name If it's if it's one without an s naturally then it'll have apostrophe before but if it has one already then it goes after Right, that's how it works Yeah, that's generally a rule that I understand and it looks less awkward too. That's why whenever I pluralize my name It's rags apostrophe and that's all that you really need Because if it's just s apostrophe s it's kind of like yeah Hi rags. This is for you and thanks for recommending mordhow. It's great Oh, yeah, I really dig it Uh more than when can we expect your critique of megashark versus giant octopus? 20 26 is the slated delivery date um But you gotta apply more time to it in the long game You see in 20 96 all the all the videos that have been done about it will have been done already So you gotta wait a little bit after the rush of videos So people think you have something really insightful to say Yeah, the real discussion about movies of that caliber take place much longer after it releases You can't have a hot take on megashark versus giant octopus. You need to have a lot of rep work a lot of detail A lot of themes in those movies. Oh, yeah, like if your if your take is that it's bad, then obviously that's a very hot take Uh, hello rags Yeah, for this one's for you to go buy a hold-o figure Oh, yeah, that's all I should have picked hold-o. She's my favorite The question I feel so bad for any child that was given a hold-o doll Yeah, you'd be like, oh Well, maybe the parents failed. I don't know. I don't know jay. Yeah Uh, why are we talking about spider-man when james bond just died? Sorry, jeff Well, sorry jeff sorry jeff So y'all the actor is playing the female black james bond yet Uh The one in that Yeah, that's I'm assuming if you're talking about that one, then yeah apparently it's captain marvel's best friend from captain marvel Oh, she's cool. I mean For the five minutes we saw of her. She seemed fine Yeah, right. She was emotive and Not wooden and Yeah, she was better than captain marvel for sure If only she had been captain marvel, maybe maybe the movie would have been I I swear I've heard in the comics that character ends up taking up the mantle of captain marvel of something like that That'd be nice. I'll take it go for it. Yeah, anyone besides gree larson. Yeah, maybe they'll do it. Yeah Fun thing. I ran a poll on on twitter like a few minutes ago before a few minutes before I I joined the stream asking if More people want drax to head the mcu than people want captain marvel to head the mcu I would absolutely be down drax. Oh, he's so great Oh my god. Now. I want to see him commanding the avengers in like a battle scene just to see what he'd say You fly man. I'm absolutely down for it. Drax is such an underappreciated character I love him. He's so great. I love the in the second guardians film. They gave him so much material to work with like, uh Fucking hilarious while also having like a background that's actually very fascinating to me, but um, yeah More drax so well. It's like, um, comic relief But also this the scenes that has played straight with him So it's like impactful. It's they two have a delicate balance that they pull off there So a y'all charge in area 51. I think rags you're doing that. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, absolutely. I will send a drone 20th, right? September 20th. I heard was that we're gonna storm area. Luckily we've made our battle plans at the time of the assault public knowledge That's why d-day worked so well because they knew we were coming. I'm just picturing this big charge of people They reached like a gate or a door. They're like, fuck What do we do? Like did they will bring like, I don't know the skeleton key or some kind of Why are cutters or something right? I well, this is the thing that's when a line is crossed Right having a bunch of people run up to a place like that'll be funny But then if someone's like like throw grenades to try and blow up like a thing to get it. I'll be like, uh, oh That's the thing. Yeah. And if anyone shows up if anyone actually shows up Someone will actually try and get in and then get arrested. That's how it's gonna go And if that actually happens who even set that up, why did it like get traction? Oh, that's just a funny meme It was a meme and it became something more Um I had a father. His name was ben parker not tony Oh It'd be in that continuity Movie binge update 300. Well, it's a movie mostly style and not much substance though I saw someone on indb unironically call it racist 300 is what racist line came no 300 300 and that was 300 racist Is it because all the spawns are white so many possible ways I was about to say, uh, why do you even find the greeks for white? Fucking of course. What else would the plane be? I don't find It's the hole that you get the guy gets kicked into is blackness It suggests that people are darker the black man gets kicked into the black clothes If you want to punish people you get them closer. No, no, it has nothing to do with that dude being black. Is he black? I can't remember. He's black. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's black Yeah, I come from another place Which is you know the blacks they're from a different place. He sends him back down the black hole Which is where they all spawn, right? I don't know I'm asking I thought that was a part of the law of 300 the black hole if I could do that Jesus man, maybe I misunderstood the law fine Goddamn, that's white people spawned from clouds and fall from the sky and only a few of them survived the impact The babies like they were the lad in the ocean they get picked up And then black people spawned from holes, uh, and but only a few of them can climb out of the holes About half cast people They just they just get born normally Oh, well the more you know I hear that's a no-no word. I hear that's not one you're supposed to say what normal you guys keep calling them blacks Half cast just want to hear you're not supposed to say Half cast Yeah, oh, what's the correct term? Uh, I don't know. Is it people of color the one that I've never understood Mixed race. I think would be the specific acceptable term Oh, there we go Might be something different in in three minutes though Uh, gary here's a freehold of figure for you too. Oh, we'll make a note Um I'm watch live, but wanted to put my bit towards the rhino farm fund also homecoming was a good film money split evenly, please It shall be done Why did you do this very good film? Yeah I mean, well every everybody has a different take on that rags. Did you know that You're gonna let people have an opinion rags. Hmm Nope You killed star wars Oh, yeah Where is wall of this is for him? Also, I want to send him a ryan johnson bobblehead, but I don't know how to I I would actually love to have a bobblehead of ryan johnson I mean you could probably get someone to custom make one, right? I don't know Yeah, I'm sure you're giggling it, but I've noticed in recent streams, you've been very dismissive of the adaptation argument And so I'm curious what your take is on batman doesn't kill argument against bvs Uh, I'm not dismissive of the adaptation argument. I treat it as a separate Entity of like the quality of an adaptation will usually be dependent on how faithful you are to the source by definition, I imagine Uh, and that doesn't always necessarily lead to good things like what if you have a source? Story that is poorly written. Are you supposed to be faithful or are you supposed to take what they failed to? I don't know realize correctly And improve it. It's a complicated discussion. And so, um The idea that something is not in continuity with something else when they're separated by Uh adaptation I think that the the ruling that they have to adhere to certain rules is a little bit too Stifling of it. So the idea that should batman be able to kill in an adaptation My question wouldn't be that it would it would just be what story did they create with the resources they had and you know They may have deviated very far from the source But as long as it's all very justified with like Was an effect writing I I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with it Um, but if someone said but it's a poor adaptation. It's completely unfaithful. I'd be like, oh, well, yeah, probably Maybe I don't know. I'd have to check it If if it literally comes down to it's not one to one and it's not adhering to the important parts of the character or something. I'd be like, oh quite possibly but um The the comparison I think Uh, I've been I've been talking about with fringing as well as like if you had What everyone agreed upon to be an amazingly written story about a hero that kills to protect his world or whatever It's like finalized completely Everybody loves it and then like the day before release. They just changed the main character's name from tom jones to uh to bruce wane And it's like does it therefore make all of the writing bad? I mean, we try to get that across with um changing all of ben's name to uncle Uh barb or whatever I said I think it's ridiculous to say that it thus turns the the the writing bad Um, I think it's fair to say it it turns it into a poor adaptation though Yeah And that's my take off sometimes with this kind of thing like Uh, say people want to start adapting this stuff in like a hundred years from now Like look some of these names that can I mean superhero names already kind of sound like oh you can tell when this came out like, oh carol Uh Like bruce, you know, they're all sort of the same sort of era of name So like at a point where you're trying to put that in a modern in a modern setting If you take that uh, if you take that so far enough that it would kind of seem strange to have like that name in a modern setting Then you can have a trade-off between okay. Do we actually adapt it faithfully? Or do we give them a name that they would actually have in this saying? Uh at that point you can make arguments both ways that it's a a worse adaptation but a better film because it's a less faithful thing because of the name changing and um Uh shad was actually talking to us about how in the comics apparently spider-man's name is you know discovered by everybody And it's undone by like a mass Someone's gonna have to crack me on this because I haven't read them I can't quite remember what he said but something like a mass spell From like dr. Strange or something somebody does a thing and it makes everyone forget what spider-man's real name is And he was like that's shit and I hope they don't do that and I was just like But wouldn't it be unfaithful of them not to but it would be like the comics. So I'm again And so so he was like, oh, yeah, no, there are some things that uh, you probably shouldn't Remain faithful to I was like, yeah, that's that's um, that's interesting um And so yeah to give you another example that I often use is that uh, I was getting more and more frustrated with Game of Thrones for not involving a lot of the elements of the books Um just saying stoneheart will let everybody know who's a fan of the books Understand that pretty quickly But I wasn't quick to say something like it's bad because it doesn't have stoneheart It's it's bad for many other reasons and then My initial take on what they do with Tyrion at the end of season four was that like they fucked it up Because they didn't do everything they're supposed to do in the books But the you know, if you were to tell me can you argue why it's bad without even a single reference to the books? I'd be like, yes, I can and it it comes down to the fact of motivation and uh a lot of confusion Not exactly what the hell is going on between Shea and tywin tywin and Tyrion and and how everyone sees each other and what everyone's doing in those scenes it's very confusing compared to It almost feels like there's a missing element and then you reference the books the books have this this element that binds all of it Together and you go, oh, that's how that happened They didn't bring in this element then you find out a quote from the writers saying that they didn't have the time to Put it in I think this is what they said about what I'm referring to So all of that makes sense in a meta view But it would still not be relevant if it was really well written within the show's continuity But I would argue that it really isn't it like fucks a lot of things up um And yeah, uh, oh, it was called it was Mephisto in one more day Mephisto I guess did it who by the way, I'm very interested to see if they bring Mephisto into the mcu because he's kind of cool I only know him from video games, but um he's like his name isn't me fisto Mephisto I'm actually not sure exactly how you're supposed to pronounce it But that's whatever I said was whatever I Um, yes, the emotional impact is definitely washed down, but I almost think it doesn't even make sense um Alexi Anyway, moving on. Oh spider-man homecoming is objectively good the dawn. Did the dawn say that? That must be true. Yeah Mysterio was a bad villain in far from home. Well that will be yeah Well, we can't say anything because rags hasn't seen it. So give it a shot Um, we will we'll try and discuss far from home, uh, much more extensively next week. Um, for anybody who's curious about it Mola you're gay You do that His gay what? I don't know something about my gay Uh, why talk about spider-man spider-man? I wish to see this gay Oh, that's very true My main problem with new spider-man is that he doesn't have consequences really for either homecoming or far from home Oh What? Yeah, I know. I know it's it's a bizarre thing that people say and I I don't know I can't quite I understand why people reach that conclusion from homecoming I do not understand why they reached that conclusion far from home considering what happens and I do not get that whatsoever But you can do this without spoiling it because it's so obvious you can literally just say did you not watch the scene? The scene everyone knows what you're talking about Oh like that's how Undergoes transgender surgery Maybe he does we can't spoil it We can't now say that that doesn't happen because rags would like to think that that might be a possibility But nobody ruined it for him. Jesus You masses are the only thing keeping me at my job. Thanks for the pain you basement dwelling nerd sweats smelling rhino milking hate mongering Autist keyboard gremlins never change Anytime the very sweet part about that My favorite part about that is how super chats get more expensive the longer they are so every insult cost more money Wait, do they I love that Yeah, they do that's the more you give you see you see if you ever gave super chats every once in a while mauler You would know this but the more you pay the longer the message gets to be Is well, I just assumed that there was a cap regardless like I'm assuming you can't write an essay or anything, right? I think you can but it has you have to like you have to be like a thousand money I think literally it's just like I think it might just be like a one-to-one ratio with the word count and not the word count But the character count and the money or something like that You get more the more you pay essentially. They're like tears. There are levels I mean, I don't know if they put a cap in because that would prevent like Like why would you put in it like, you know, then people are going to pay less money if someone wants to fucking Paste a book into a super chat and is willing to pay for it. I don't know why you should put cap that I forgot to bring it up There's a clip on twitter from do you guys know the name John camp here do either of you know that name? No So I know that will cast bullshit as a nerd rotic. We're both knowing they consider him quite the shill for like new new star wars films He's reading off super chats This clip man, he reads a name. I want to find it because it's so much funnier if you just listen to it Oh, how am I gonna find this somebody who shared it? Some some people in chat probably know what I'm talking about. He's reading out Super chats and he finds the name of one of them funny But he doesn't realize what the name is trying to say Um, it's like three words broken up when you put them together It says something very different and he just reads it out without realizing Yeah Does anyone know where I can find that because I want I want I kind of want to play it and watch together Lord of the shill Can't um, yeah, I can't remember who on twitter shared it somebody liked a clip of it somewhere It's all right. If I find out I'll put on the next defap. Um, we will have fun times with Um Muller if you want to see spider-man at his best watch the two season spectacular spider-man show That is peter parker not some childish little doofus who leeches off iron man All right There's a lot to unpack there. Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, I just I'm going to take him for his word that uh The spectacular spider-man show there's two seasons of it. Apparently it's very good. It is Uh, thank you guys for everything even on the dare to put down my dog. You guys made me smile Thanks for that. I'm grateful. Oh, yeah. Jesus. That sucks, man Oh, yeah Um hanging there. Yeah Adaptation argument is for the gaze the dawn From creamy sheath as well. So You have a very trusted source talking about another trusted source making a statement. That's absolutely true. That's just Do you like nude writers channel? I think we had that question last time. Um I like some of his videos. I don't like some of his videos. I hate how influential he's been on how people design video essays That's that's my quick take. Yeah, you like him, right? You're a trouble person Um, I can't remember which one he is That's a really good side, isn't it? He sort of blends it. He's the one that has like Is it like a coffee mug that has a spoon in it at the beginning or or is it like an actual soup bowl? I can't remember. Oh this one um, I swear I've seen some of his videos but None of them show up as watched for me Oh, yeah, he did the one on like donald trump's speech patterns, right? Yes That was a strange video that he had made considering he was very focused on media, but yeah They showed that video in my english class when I was in high school. Wow That was fun. Uh, the problem is that tony stark has replaced uncle ben as peter's moral compass Is that true like uh, first of all, I don't know that that's a problem and secondly moral compass What is peter parker's moral compass in homecoming? No, he goes against loads of like the like maybe I mean, he says don't get involved and peter does for the greater good. So you could argue there that peter's ignoring Uh, moral compass. I don't know He already has his like with great power comes great responsibility line like right when he's introduced like he's already got it I'm presumably I I'm still stuck with the idea this like it's bad that it comes from him instead of uncle ben. I'm like, why though Yeah, because it's not like the comics Uh, my issue with homecoming is flash even michael siro would have made for a better convincing high school bully Bullies come in all shapes and sizes. Mm-hmm I mean, he's not really much of a bully in this even like you see he's just more of a guy I don't think the films are trying to project him as a very effective bully. He's almost a heckler And it's like well, you need to have a bully and peter story and I'll be like, okay Do you like could you just have the guy who's an annoying asshole? Let's say he could he I could see him fitting so easily. I believe him like in far from home. They kind of character showed his character a bit but in homecoming Like I he would he felt like a real guy that I would have met at high school I'm sorry. Well, I wasn't bullied all the time. I wouldn't know Oh, look at mr. Mr. Was the bully over here. Wow We just established that flash wasn't bullying, but you're a bully Hey, why are you bullying rags, dude? Yeah, I wish you'd kind of quit It's bad enough that you have a hatred for the lgbt Oh, it's because you're a furry I'm not a furry though I don't care appearances as what I go off of Hey, why does the profile picture have a shield in it? You go around calling every dog a furry. Wow. It's kind of weird Well, do they have fur? That's what I thought some some do. Why are wait are all mammals furries? Um, yes All right Okay, I am a I am a mammal The clip the clip was found I'm gonna send it to you guys Or is like zero and then we will play it all at the same time because it's a twitter video I don't think you can put them on the clip Heck I'm assuming this will work Are you guys ready? Yes, I closed my watch together. Yeah, no, it's all good. No, we'll just sync it on twitter. It's only seven seconds Three. Oh, okay We're starting at what time? Zero Zero, okay Yeah, again context this guy's just reading out. You can already see the joke on screen, but we'll just go from zero Three two one go All right, uh, smelling me grow. I love that name. Uh, which uh, How do you be that stupid? Smelly All right, uh, smelling me grow. I love that Yeah, I sold out my phone. I was like that can't be real. How do you be that stupid? It's The fact he says I love that name as well. You're like, oh This would be so bad. It's just audio. What's the thing that could actually get him in some trouble. I'm not sure You know these days Oh, are you kidding? You see what people get in trouble for these days? Yeah, but he's got like the evidence very clearly there. Oh evidence. Oh uj. You're so naive What do you mean evidence that he made a mistake that there's context to what he said? Is that what he's saying? Yes, um, well, we'll see, you know, maybe maybe some people will be like, oh, he's a bad But the like majority will come down on this like and see this Like it's not like PewDiePie's career was destroyed He's doing fine. Nobody took a dent for sure Yeah, I mean you think he if he was a smaller channel Yeah, yeah, you are talking about the biggest youtuber on the platformer as a platformer is what platform But I can't think of a smaller example right now Well Yeah, it's fun. Also PewDiePie did nothing wrong Uh Hey, Moeller, thanks for the video essays and eFap's past. I hope you continue to make certain host such good and bad But funny debates long into the future Yes, thanks to rags and wool for their content too Yay, thank you Uh, Moeller and rags are right about spider-man the dawn creamy. She's just running out all these dawn quotes Starting to wonder if he really got them from the dawn or not. It's uh How do we how do we know for sure? Hello Moeller rags Someone's got a question. Hi Yeah, sorry. Hello Moeller rags. Jeff and Gary. I must must ask What are all your thoughts on the upcoming live action Lion King remake any specific predictions like shit? It looks really ugly. It looks weird. It looks awful um Is I just you get this the the old good old fashioned question of why like for all of it Uh But if you're gonna do it could you not Fuck it up a lot. I've already heard this getting bad reviews too And I was just like oh damn is this gonna be the first live action disney remake that like gets no pan critically I don't know if any of them have been so far. Jay. Do you know about that? You're a nude No I just assumed that people are rational and like that's my mistake, but I did your mistake Uh, I have posted carn of thrones vids on my channels, uh or channel One of the vids is four minutes long with a jamie actor discusses his thoughts on season eight's writing You're welcome to share and discuss my vids Actually, uh, I've seen a few clips of that. He says something along the lines of um You would share like Infusions or criticism of what jamie is doing in the later seasons and they would be like go away like Not to say that whenever an actor complains they are right But it's interesting Ooh, er posted a video a lot of people was uh, what's the topic? Oh, he's criticizing us At least I think it is what Actually, I don't know. It's just the last of us Oh, I mean the film us Yeah, no, not us us. Fuck. I was like what I love how my brain didn't process that at all It was like the film us jay. What are you talking about when I say us? It's obviously the film um Yeah, I'm not actually well, I'll check that out late But more or go full critique Well, that's because you're a bad person. I don't know I'm all a go full critique on endgame Maybe one day. I'm not against it. I actually would be interested in doing a full breakdown of it I get messages um every day of both Can't wait for your endgame praise and can't wait for your endgame rage. I'm like Nobody said your endgame mare. So I guess People feel strongly one way or the other a bad adaptation does not mean objectively bad movie Kind of how I feel about Just a daily reminder that spider-man punched a red-headed woman to death in a graveyard. That is all What Why is being her being a redhead significant there? I mean, no, she has to have red hair like the comics He punched it a death at a graveyard, right? That seems to be the more important element of it No, as long as she had red hair Well, I'm assuming that's some kind of Horrible flashback or dream sequence even I don't know that's an interesting thing if it's true Hello, nerd rotic. Hello Jeff from world-class bullshit as guests of efab Do you think if someone got herpes from drinking bathwater bought online they deserve it? Well, they're not here to answer that question It's gonna happen. I have now The desert the bathwater herpes deserve it question The new episode nine question Moly you never continued the game of thrones rage would you would love to see the finish of season eight? Oh, it's on the way Iron man is the best part of mcu spider-man and that's its biggest problem Second is fake mj. Who's barely in the film and still manages to turn everyone against her Thirdly spider-man is too whiny no So fake mj that's interesting In everyone against her does he do you mean like in a meta sense because the people in the film like her by the end of it Um, I assume that must be a meta sense, right? What was the thing I didn't hear Let's say yeah, that's not true because like everyone I know who's seen that film love to Myself included. I wouldn't I mean when you when you say that that film Who do how many people you thinking about when you say that? um Probably like four I was gonna say I don't know anybody who's loved here. If someone said they loved her. I'd be like wow. She was barely on screen But you know You know like enjoyed her presence Significantly like she's great kind of a level Yeah, fair enough. Um, that's the thing. I I I don't really I didn't think too much about her in the film. Um Oh, and I saw a weekend warrior put out a video Recently like as in like an hour ago or more probably more than that because we've been streaming so like five hours ago but he said um one of his biggest criticisms of I was about to say but I guess rags, uh If you know if you've seen the trailer rags peter's interested in pursuing mj in the new film. Um, okay and uh We can worry his problem with it is that uh, we don't Homecoming didn't set up that peter was interested in her Um, yeah, and that's a criticism a lot of people have and I just don't really Understand like do you need a justification for a boy to have a crush on a girl when they're 16 years old some of these people. I'm like, have you ever like Like do they not have like boyfriend girlfriend in real life is because that's it If she's a girl and your boy, that's the justification I mean like I I'm in the middle camp of it would be nice to see Them develop it further, but I'm fine with how that's what far from home is Like no, but like I'll be nice to see it will be nice to have an in-between stage where they Start like where where that like where where peter starts seeing her that way instead of going from off to on Well, that's the first moment is the off to on No, it's not like the first moment is like, um I was in like a development of his feelings not just a oh, I like her now Well, you liked her No, shut up. Um, yeah, I uh I guess so it's the question like if we get like a conversation where They're talking about normal things and then he slowly realizes. Hey, I kind of actually like this girl So what are you thinking about? Yeah, and like they could have done that over a whole movie Um, like that would be spider-man 2 and then the arc we got in this one would be in the third one Yeah, so my take would be that um He's developed a crush on her in the time We haven't seen in between thingy and thingy and then this movie is developing How they feel about each other how they work together who they are I mean, yeah, of course, but like Of course it happened in the time that we didn't see them, but I think it's it works fine the way it is But it could work better if we see it develop I think like if she was cardboard like she didn't really say anything and then they kiss at the end of the movie or something I'd have been like wow crap But uh, yeah, all we have to go on is he's just like man. I have a crush on a What do and then antics ensue and development ensue. So I just yeah, I don't see the issues I guess my take would it be improved by a scene in which there is some form of a stepping stone between zero feelings and some feelings I don't think it would hurt Someone just tweeted at me specifically to tell me they hated her All right, I know a lot of people who hate her Uh, like I said when you said the four people loved her or whatever. I was like wow I don't hear that a lot It's an interesting super chat a lot of soy from moeller and rags crying good Well, no, we were trying to explain how it was good But they weren't having any of it because it wasn't like the fucking comic book Oh, actually this person said crying good as if our argument was that crying is a good thing I don't I don't understand the argument that crying is a bad thing. I don't I don't know man. I feel like the rabie trilogy I he cries all the fuck time with those And he's a 15 year old kid who is trying to shoulder a lot of responsibility who brushes against death Like I don't think it'd be weird if he didn't cry. Yeah, like if he was stoic I'd have been like man Quite the constitution for his a robot child Crying man bad Uh, yo, yo my fellow massives you've helped me my who've helped my writing a great deal with these vids So thank you ps ryan johnson has a small dick How do you know that? Uh, I was 10 hours into an eight hour work day when I happened upon a critique of tfa Hearing a good argument is energizing twas an easy 15 hour work day Uh, I mean that video isn't 15 hours. So unless you played it on point 25 speed Which would be an interesting experience. I imagine um I hope the work day was improved by it though. Thank the thank you for the uh, let me know It should I had a near fatal car accident. You don't cry. You don't realize it afterwards. It came to me and I was nearly dead I don't know when the buildings when the building's actively on top of you. I feel like at that point despair would set in Yeah, especially when in the scene he tries really quick and sudden oftentimes Uh, he's trying to move it He's struggling to breathe and then he's like almost resigning himself to the idea that he's stuck under here and he could die it's like Yeah, that's when you might cry and then he does he gives himself the peps speech which I really like because it's really good People are going to react differently to near-death situations. That's not gonna be universal, right? Everybody's a bit different down to the moments, but I wouldn't I wouldn't say that it's um A sudden thing happens and he's suddenly gushing tears. It's uh, it falls on him. He tries to lift it up He can't do it and then he starts despairing and and doubting for help I I think it would be reasonable to start tearing up at that point. Wouldn't you say guys? Yeah, I'm going to pitch Hey guys, what's the eFap opinion on black mirror? Um, I haven't seen black mirror when he saw the one episode. I liked it, but apparently it was the best one It's like the white Christmas or black Christmas or something like that. It's oh, that one's great. There you go I've seen a few episodes and the ones I've seen were great I've only seen like the highlights, sir Spider-man is hella gay. Oh well Hashtag make Peter Hashtag make Peter care about Ben's death again He's probably gotten over it That's what I mean is you have to have that that's that's you need the that to do the rest of the stuff You can't have it be um A different father figure with a different dynamic that leads to different results. It has to be the same one Um every eFap where mohler doesn't ask his guests about the gamer girl bathwater question is illegitimate. I think that's fair Um, no disrespect gentlemen, but these arguments amount to I don't like this version for adaptation reasons And have nothing to do with its objective quality also high rags Yeah, it's a shame I mean, I they did specify that they they said like a film the film has a standalone film They didn't at any point say it was bad. Gary to say it was boring Um And that it's not yeah, it's subjective. Well, yeah, I mean it was boring at all. Yeah, I wasn't bored I had a lot of fun You should get tim pool as a guest. I'm sure doggo can get his contact I love to have Um, man, I'd love to have tim pool on what would we cover? Was he interested in he likes movies? I assume he made he hated cap marvel Damn, he should have uh, he should have come on for those captain marvel episodes. That was good shit He could have met the dog asking you to with a number of people asking you to do cinema wins captain marvel Are you gonna um? I I was about to say to Do people do people want that but I was probably a pointless question because I think they're just gonna say yes like um So many people have like explicitly asked for it. It's been one of the most requested things. I've noticed in a while Well, once maybe once he releases part two as well. So we can do one and two with Okay What is what is your take on part one and part two cinema wins his video on captain marvel? I Couldn't be bothered to form opinions on it. I think he said some things uh, and some of them were ways That's very controversial. I like that you took some of it some I thought his jokes were funny, but like I can't remember. I know I just agreed with him But I can't like at points, but I can't remember about what or how often it anymore I think I've just blocked it out of my mind Uh, well, yeah, that's a possibility then we that could definitely happen down I think there's there's stuff that that's that's there that genuinely sounds like it's a response to um I mean it feels like it would be a direct response to like even fucking my video on it where I'm talking about how uh She is like killing the dude the killing the cardboard cut out But I know a lot of people have probably talked about that but Yeah, he's he does he says stuff that's like directly response responding to those criticisms And I I don't think his take is very good on it But I can't remember why I just remember like going that's not a great take um I've never I've never seen lord of the rings make me want to watch it massives I mean we've talked about lord of the rings a whole bunch of excellent production about you great writing Stellar acting the sets and the props are all incredible. It's so well paced it Oh, it's everything about it. It's just so good But what should I have it first so it's in chronological order? No Uh, the biggest unseen argument between the two sides is the cultural values the different spider-mans espouse in their depictions cultural values I've been since see that developed. I'm not sure what you're referring to and it ends with rags stop being a dick How rude Daddy it hurt when I pee, right? Does wolf have the big gay? yes Nude rata keeps saying objectively. I don't think you know what that means I I think he was using it mostly correctly. He was he was openly admitting that he's not necessarily being objective about um the arguments he was using that is Is his experience with spider-man since age four. I think is what he's what did he say age four? six I can't quite remember but he said that um, definitely affecting his sort of enjoyment of the film I guess Um, at least spider-man is actually a teenager this go around instead of 30 all the dad adaptations had issues The new movies are good and fit in the mcu. Could they be better? Sure No, you're not allowed to say the ramy trilogy had problems. Oh, no Maybe that's the third one that's fair game Maybe he's not understanding a shared universe toby spider-man was a standalone movie. Well, this is the thing I think that um The idea that you would ignore the mcu as a whole when you're bringing spider-man into it is Is detrimental to the the continuity that he is now in He's not just spider-man in marvel's film adaptations. He's spider-man in the mcu And uh, yeah works out great for captain marvel, right? Maybe one day we'll get um a new version of spider-man again Like Tony will try again. They'll reboot again We could get another I mean if you mean pitt apart or a spider-man because we're totally gonna get another one Of course. Yeah, we yeah, we could get a miles moralis or um the other the other names he was mentioning Or peter b parker I mean if if they do the multiverse thing we could get toby maguire in it Tobus maguire Yeah, I I'd love to see that Um as a kid what if they come what if they got andrew garfield, but not toby maguire? Oh my god There would be riots in the streets As a kid you wanted to be spider-man, but not peter parker And that's the point of the character this ferris buehler version of spider-man ruins that Um, I think plenty of kids would want to be the tom harland spider-man Yeah But no it wasn't I I heard the criticism being of uh that you would want to be him as peter parker as well Well, this too, which I said you wanted to be spider-man, but not peter parker Yeah So the criticism there could be that you don't want to be spider-man or peter parker Or that you want to be spider-man and peter parker or that you don't want to be spider-man, but you do want to be peter parker Which would be weird, uh Okay Stroll pole you massives. I didn't I didn't know if there would be a point in doing a straw pole Like what would the question even be? Like oh, just do another one on the quality of homecoming because last time we had 60 40 and see if it's changed Well, we didn't even get to talk about the quality. That's the thing I mean, I got to talk a little bit about what I thought was strong about the movie. Uh, I didn't get to talk about everything, but you know um Are you saying you want to do the same question j and see if you get a better split this time Yeah You're gonna say I'll set it up if you want. What was your question the first one? You should just do the same one What's homecoming good? I think it was Oh, well, yeah, okay. Yeah, just set it up and uh ping me the link and I will spam it in chat for everybody Uh thoughts on disney's cruise It's okay thoughts on disney's crusade through the entertainment industry Is their practice of annexing and exhausting valuable ip's and major content distributors going to suffocate aspiring creators and visionaries Possibly we could also possibly be in a position where they're gonna allow the sort of the opportunity for new creators to rise through I don't know some kind of like Clogging of of of the movie industry so the people are desperate to find something new and then someone provides it that sort of thing So maybe um, so here is the straw poll We will post it a more than once I imagine. I um Just just just give you a vote yes or no, and I know that that's like oh, it's not a very um good poll It's not a very good set of answers. We're just gonna compare it to last How dare you disrespect the poll rights put my blood sweat and tears into Ignore this j character. He's not real You have to do you have a link to the previous one by the way you could probably get it from I was looking for that Yes, I was I was wondering if I tweeted it or if I put it in the description a good point If I didn't that means I'm gonna have to like go through the actual stream and try and find it Or I link it in the chat Yep, looks like I didn't link it in the description my bad Well We'll just have to try and figure out compare and get it some I remember it was about 60 40. So Well, don't don't jump the gun there j anything can happen with this vote. Yeah, anything can Not many people voted yet Freaking j being all like, uh, she is good now because everyone says it was that's you j Glad you voted I I don't feel I need to take a further with the response Do you agree that an adaptation can be too far removed from the source? Like if in lord the rings of reboot, what if gandalf was a young ripped party animal? It may be well written, but I am disappointed as someone who paid for spider-man Uh, so I would yeah, yeah, but that's false advertising at some point eventually Yeah, and I and the fact that you just said it may be well written But I'm disappointed I'd be like you should be disappointed if they are marketed it that way And you should feel disrespected and the source material has been shat on But it was well written And I know that that almost seems like Disrespectful in a way I suppose, but I would just be like well if we're to remain objective here Have to be fair Say that they actually did write a very swell story. They've just shat on the um Of course, and again, this is something that I'll have to deal with a lot of the time like with game of thrones Or um, the lemony snicket adaptations, though I don't know how everyone feels about them being just bad on their own anyway It's you know Some of them trying to remain consistent with because I do think that uh It creates a lot of very confusing conversations if you're to argue that as long as you're Unfaithful to a to x degree The content is now poorly written. It's like, hmm And the thing that sort of tips me over in that argument is the idea that you just take a well written story And change one name and apparently it becomes a bad story to me That's kind of ridiculous like it doesn't make sense to me But if the framing is adaptation again, I don't disagree Uh, robin doesn't always do what batman tells him spider-man has been downgraded to a sidekick to tony stark Very interesting Yeah, I didn't see the movie where he was a sidekick to tony stark Yeah, it's weird Although that would have been a cool movie if they did that that would have been cool. Yeah, that would have been cool Yeah, like a direct mentoring I'm coming but as well as I'm coming that would have been neat to see Yeah We've really built up on their relationship I gotta pee though No, he has to he has to learn before he's great well, uh That was something that uh Shadow of irsty bro. He was like, what if We have him being a confident assertive character to begin with would that not be more Uh enjoyable for the audience would you not be a more likeable character as opposed to seeing him in a weakened state Learning to become this this character that we all want him to be But that would be so much more satisfying to see him grow into this amazing Well, I would argue that neither are more or less satisfying and that it's necessarily about execution and that um They're both different stories We could meet a hero at his peak from the get go Or we could meet a hero that starts out with almost nothing and very low experience and understanding of why he does what he does It always is about uh, how they do the thing I suppose for me Um unpopular opinion spider-man 2 is the best spider-man movie, but the only good ramy movie I don't know. Well, I guess the first half isn't unpopular as an opinion But the second half I suppose is most people do consider spider-man 1 to be very good as well I like spider-man 1 a lot. I think it's clunkier than the second one And I understand the idea of being like clunky. What does that mean? I'd be like, you know what I'm gonna stick with clunky because I'm not sure about how to qualify that just yet I'd have to re-watch the film But I remember thinking it was good Uh, when we re-watched it for the cosmonaut variety hour e-fap Which I feel like was over half a year ago now time flies but uh What are your thoughts on terminator dark fate? Um We Covered it sort of in the previous e-fap when nuderotic told us. Oh, it wasn't the previous one It was the nuderotic e-fap. He told us um a potential plot summary I The thing was when we were talking about the expanse and stuff. It was after that and um Sounds like a disaster When you start your terminator story with john connor is dead. I'd be like, um, okay Interesting, here's the thing Um, my mom is a massive terminator fan or specifically terminator two. She doesn't yes Uh massive terminator two fan. She doesn't care for the first one, but she really likes the second one And she saw that trailer in the cinema Uh and got really excited and I was like, I'm so sorry because I knew the leaks Yeah, that you could expect a video from the odd dark fate because that will get me so pissed off My love for terminator is embedded deep into my into my massive heart And yeah, we'll we'll see what happens. Maybe it'll be great right guys. Maybe it'll be great. Yeah, it might be great Yeah, I so want that movie to be great because seracotta looks so cool in it Like that's such a superficial thing But I want to see her kicking ass in a really cool movie Right, come on Y'all are arguing over meta narratives moeller and rags would probably contend that they don't exist So, um the existence of them The existence of a meta narrative isn't exactly something that Would be relevant to talking about the specific references from the film itself like Well, it depends on interpretation and it also depends on exactly what you're referring to when you say meta narrative because uh For example, I'm pretty sure that word gets used every other sentence with movie bob takes on everything but um If you're drawing something from like outside of the content to represent What the film might mean in a meta sense or if you're talking about like like um How how people are interacting with the film or how they're reacting and how what the film says about them like a lot of people would say the kyla ren was um A representation of angry star wars fanboys who didn't understand the content or were angry for no reason that sort of shit Like if you look at the film from that standpoint with that meta narrative, it's uh, it becomes very blah blah blah I'm just like uh, uh But yeah, I would happily hear out the argument depending on the references. I suppose I mean, there are so many interpretations that can make the the thing so much more fun to watch But they don't make the thing good on its own if you need to like be told something before you watch it You should already know if you're a peter parker fan I guess i'm not a peter parker fan I found movies though Peter parker fan I'm not a fan of which peter parker. Um, I'm guessing the comic one I don't know I don't read comics Okay, lol mola can be subjective and objective at different times christ Better criticism because I agree with that Yeah, we can that's that's our whole point is that you can be both We the whole thing is drawing the line Make your choice now I choose to be an object subjectivism I can accept that Yeah, I assume they're running with the meta narrative that the film is is uh, taking spider-man and removing The elements of him that uh Make him who he is as sort of like a humiliation or a way of Making him subservient to the current MCU standing there are a lot of sort of Narratives you could run based on how you feel about how he was treated or whatever and I would just be like, okay You can kind of run reverse ones Like the MCU respect spider-man so much that they're giving him the longest developed story from beginning to end to create What is going to be the the most heroic And leadership fueled hero the MCU has ever seen To the point where iron man story ends with him passing the torch to this hero Who's gonna be the real face of the MCU not iron man You know, you can you can run these a lot of the times in a lot of different ways As long as some of the references support it. So I'm just like, okay It changes the events of the film Lol good joke mola. I'm just saying you could you could go multiple ways with it Uh more I had a dream where your youtube channel and twitter were gone And then I woke up to a notification that you tweeted and the nightmare was over All right I mean even if that happened, I would still find a way to get videos out. So don't panic. It would be fine Uh the inclusion of the iron man suit and tony's help earlier makes the contrast better when peter's forced to fight alone in the last act I agree It's different from the comics Um because I think there's someone else that shadow was talking about was the idea that like if he was fighting for himself The entire time versus having the safety net and then having it removed What necessarily creates the more engaging storyline? I would say that's pretty much subjective, you know You'll be as engaged as you're gonna be But um, I do like the contrast That it can uh can make for a decent progression Spider-man makes his own tools. He's supposed to be the little guy that always always takes the high road And he does it alone. He does not want to put other people in danger no matter what What if he's in a situation where he doesn't have a choice? He's like batman never kills people Yeah, I can provide you with well, so yeah, that's the fundamental argument here, right? Um What if batman has to and you're like well as a writer you shouldn't be forcing him into that situation I would be like what if he ends up in that situation? How do you deal with this in life when? You have a person who is very principled about something and then they're forced to do x or y and both choices will result in breaching that principle that one of them has to occur And the example I always give is just two buses full of children one has 10 One has five batman's got to push a button to either kill the 10 or let the 10 live at the expense of the five What does he do then? And uh, yeah, it's always really fun because uh My favorite reaction to that is the character just rejecting the situation and then Shit gets worse because of it Yeah, this is a there's a lot of ways you can go with story like for example He saves the 10 And then the rest of the the story lines can involve how batman's Bracked with guilt he has to deal with the parents of the five And there's loads of things you can deal with you wouldn't just go us out of character that you would do that It's like well, what else is he gonna do let all of them die? I don't know and then so we extrapolate this to spider-man makes his own tools. What about a scenario where he can't make his own tools? Spider-man is supposed to be the little guy that always takes the high road and does it alone. What about if he can't do it alone? Seems like an arbitrary restriction And besides no, he's got to be alone because reasons He's not even alone in um In the ramy films the like the public help him when he's at his like moment of losing against green goblin um He only beats dr. Octopus because he manages to knock him out of his trance and then in the third film He's his life is saved by um Whatever goblin junior goblin Junior goblin don't know Um goblin or something And yeah, and he does not want to put people in danger no matter what I think that's that's in homecoming I don't think peter wants people to be put in danger at any point in that film. Does he I would say no What if you actually understood the character we can play this game all day? I don't know what you're trying to say with that. I don't I don't actually get it either I think this is like star wars if you don't care about what came before seven and eight are okay films Well, eight not so much, but if you do it's disappointing. I think seven falls apart regardless of what came before Yeah, but we're talking about a comic adaptation that is outside of the movie and previous Installments that are directly related to the films. Yeah, the keyword being continuity. I don't understand why people don't get the difference between adaptations and sequels The keyword continuity Yeah Not the same continuity versus it is How would tony know where peter? How would tony know where no where peter was at the end? Well, this is the thing What nerd rodig was talking about was that he never felt peter was in any kind of danger because if ever he was He would be bailed out by iron man If you feel that way, there's nothing anyone can argue out of you like this Just you know, you feel there's no stakes because you feel I remember baim bail him out I on the other hand when when watching it was like, holy fuck. He's he's gone here With his basic suit while he's on A jet that if he falls off it, he's most likely gonna die trying to fight a guy He's way more capable of killing him than vice versa right now um And and he runs out of his web shooter towards the end of it as well And he gets covered in blood and he's nearly killed. This is what I mean like I was like shit, man Like spider-man's getting pushed to his fucking limits here Um, do I think that he was gonna die in the scene? No But I don't know that that's a failing of the film versus the fact that I'm aware of uh The MCU the fact that it's a film. Yeah I mean, you can get like shot at and stuff Well, uh, like what iron man gonna swoop in and stop him stop one of those bullets from its trajectory towards him Like I'm pretty sure there's only one film that's ever built up the stakes in a way that made me not like Because I'm aware of meta knowledge and that it is a film Go. Oh, yeah, but the the good guys are gonna win and that was district nine. I was like, holy shit. What's gonna happen, but Well, I was about to say, uh, I'm only getting stabbed in infinity war. I knew that he was gonna be in the sequel to infinity war So I know he's not gonna die But it was still a great scene Like you uh, I can't you know, I can't like take it away just because I'm aware of his contract is just like really But I think this is why he could have been in endgame from time travel stuff Yeah, he could have been um in a different capacity completely I mean, he would have been if um If say he did die from that stabbing He would have he would still have had to have been an endgame Given the plot Yeah, uh, I was like um when he sits down with Thanos I was like something's gonna happen that stops him from executing Tony for sure But it didn't If it was to criticize the film that wouldn't be in there if if that translates I went because a lot of people were saying that they were like all of all the people who were dusted We already know that this business coming back because of this movie contract this movie contract now. It's just like that's not fair How are you supposed to tell a long term long term story with lots of changing stakes with characters that are having these kinds of issues When people are gonna be able to see contracts like Indeed If that makes the movies less enjoyable for you, it's your fault for looking at the contracts. Yeah, typically I would recommend not looking at the contracts Seems like It's like it's literally like reading it's like googling spoilers for a movie and then complaining that the movie was bad because you Know it was gonna happen Yeah, but in the case of like I said with nerderotic He he felt with what happened in the film up to that point that Iman was just gonna swoop in Um If you feel that way then you know, there's nothing that could be done I just thought that the film made it very clear that Iman had cut him off That he was using tech that was extremely low gear And the only tracking they had of spider-man was through the uh the tony suit. It wasn't classic one When I say classic I just mean Um, I hate mcu mj so much that I want the next movie to be an adaptation of one more day Does she die? I'm gonna search it up I would love to hear some objective flaws about the film, but I guess we're not going to get that here Uh, well if we actually talked about the film we might have I think that um We may like this this there's definitely people who have said to me in like different Formats be it pms or twitter and stuff that there are definitely objective flaws that they So we'll be made aware of them probably as time goes on Or at least the arguments Spider-man who decided to wear an alien symbiote in the comics would have denied tony suit He would have denied tony suit. Oh you're saying that it doesn't make sense that he would wear an alien symbiote But also conclude that he would deny tony suit I think so yes um Somebody just said um, I didn't hear the one possible counter argument you and moller could have made about how the mcu stands for Marvel Cinematic Universe meaning it's a different universe and then the marvel multiverse I thought it was just obvious that they were just different Well, they can't mcu stands for a marvel cinematic universe. So it's different from the marvel multiverse. Yeah, which I guess is what the comics are Yeah I mean the the idea is that uh The separate continuities would be supported by the mere fact that they can't coexist unless Unless the multiverse theory, but even then they would be separate continuities. Would they not as in They're a part of one large continuity, but they can't affect each other They don't necessarily have anything to do with each other until they interact yeah um Beowen has said that he is banished off twitter for a week So he needs to send a meme to me so that I can send it to you for the efab So we'll be getting a Beowen Piece here in a second and off twitter. So have you been racist Beowen? You've been a naughty man Gotta there's a few memes Today's one I've gone twitter have to uh Have to save the video ones for a um Uh It takes away from rodie's character that he doesn't build his own suit. That's how stupid this argument is by the way I don't even like homecoming Um, so the precedent that they take is that they're building from comics I don't think rodie built his own suit in the comics or did he I don't even know um The argument makes sense from an adaptation point of view. That's pretty much what our stance has been this whole time Uh, but even then based purely on is it a good adaptation of something else? He does build his own suit. It's just not as good as the billionaire genius who's been building suits this whole time Like doesn't that follow through? He builds the important bits of his suit. He builds the like the Interactive goggles and the web shooters and all that. Yeah, he and then I guess just those two things but Tony like, you know Adds a shit ton of bells and whistles and then finalizes all those things too There is a huge budget Someone said they're on my uh my disco they were like it makes no sense The Tony is able to build this suit for him when he's supposed to be the one who's the genius who came up with the The web shoes and stuff and I was just like why why would that not make sense? One of them has a jillion dollars and a huge lab And lots of experience. It's highly aware of all the technology as well That's the thing that always annoyed me about like the amazing spider man And I'm not I can't really remember if if they do it in the toby maguire trilogy, but I really remember annoying me and the amazing spider man where There's like a scene where he's like looking at what people wear for athletics. He's like, oh, it's always spandex And then the next scene he has like a custom spandex with webbing print on it. I'm like, where the fuck did you get that? Like is the film telling me that he just found that somewhere or did he take the custom time to like That's not even being smart. That's being like good at crafts and like To a ridiculous extent where it looks like custom made by professionals Uh, this is bad. You shouldn't have to use the comics to judge a movie. That's an unfair advantage against casual film watches I mean, I'm not I'm not sure I would use that argument to explain why it's like a poor representative a poor way to judge the movie um or what it is specifically but The I still think um, how many in a percentage how many people do you think that watch spider-man homecoming had read Spider-man comic book you guys reckon I'd say less than I'd say less than 10 percent Yeah, that sounds fair. Yeah, I think I think I could probably go with that And that's not me saying that that means x ylz. I'm just saying that that's that's uh interesting to think about in terms of Who the what the audience is Um, the thing is you could make it for both easily Yeah, no, definitely Like the ramy trilogy. Yeah, I mean the comic book readers love the ramy trilogy from what I understand Uh, it bothers me that rather than critiquing the movie. I'm hearing complaints about a publisher's interpretation of a character Exactly. That's what you heard Molar, I'm axing you aunt may was old at a disney fanatical universe when you get homecoming leeway He was old thoughts on ariel being black slash the moulin trailer I don't know the fuck's going on over at disney hq doesn't doesn't the moulin one sort of screw up the Well, because if lion king is a one-for-one Remake with like cgi and everything But then moulin is a complete like new interpretation of this story from the source rather than from The disney film then this set of live-action movies is going to be very confusing in terms of what they're doing Like with each one it's going to change not necessarily. That's a bad thing. I'm just confused. What's disney's Lie plan here. I don't to make money to make money and I guess Go ahead my my guess like being very cynical is that they don't want to do uh be a man again Oh, definitely not. I never thought that would end up in a film Right like just my guess is that that's the only reason that they're uh That they're saying oh, it's going to be a very different interpretation this time Is so that they don't have to release like official an official explanation of why they're not putting that in Although to be fair if they if they did release an official explanation and was like, oh Is the times outdated things then that would get controversy which would get them all money. So I don't know Um To clarify as well for for rags. So you remember Mulan the the the uh the song. I'm gonna make a man out of you Yeah, mr. I'll make a man out of that'll like that'll just not happen in a modern movie Yeah, people will be upset because it's not lining with gender roles Can you believe that there are some people out there who think that it's predominantly a masculine position to be a soldier In a war in medieval ages Can you disgusting? upsetting Shudder at the thought Being the fact that the new spider-man is iron man heavy. It's wrong the new comic spider-man is influenced by iron man In fairness. Well, this is the part that kind of confused me. He said that uh, he doesn't like the new spider-man comics either and so it's Well, how come those new spider-man comics aren't the real spider-man? That's the only take I've heard on new marvel comics. So I've I've I've not heard it much, but I whenever I hear anyone talking about new marvel comics. It's they're bad Yeah, no same. Um, yeah But that's when it gets confusing because it's like you've adapted You've adapted it wrong and then it's like, well, what about if it's it's drawing from these new ones like able the new ones are wrong too and it's like, okay Which one specifically are the correct ones Entirely a subjective argument. It's just oh, I was disappointed because it wasn't what I wanted it to be Which is a legitimate way to feel but it is just like, yeah, that's a feeling I mean, uh, he did he did express that that's that was definitely felt He wasn't I don't think he was saying that it's objectively bad because it's not like the comics Come on. I remember also. Yeah, just uh, I'll throw the straw pole in again. Make sure we got uh cycle of people voting We can't have jb proven To to think that the public perception of this movie has improved since last time. It'll make him feel good. We can't have that More people want ant-man to be the leader of the mcu than captain I'm down with that. Yeah, well I guess the thing is like more people want any one captain marvel. Yeah, but I will ant-man leading the mcu like I don't know I feel like with captain marvel at least they could there's the potential to do more interesting stuff If they go with ant-man, it's just gonna be dull Yeah, I won't be shit though Yeah, but like if you had if you were like, okay get in Fucking the rusos they will write captain marvel as the head of the mcu. It would probably be good Whereas if you got the rusos to write uh ant-man heading the mcu it would probably be like Yeah I don't know why there'd be a difference Just ant-man this is like there's so little you can even do with that character First off nice pun second off. I don't think that just because I don't I almost feel like marvel's insane ultimate powers would get boring to watch But with ant-man they could do a lot of stuff interesting visually with things getting bigger and smaller Unironically Yeah, I I legitimately enjoyed like the fights that have been an ant-man There are only a few characters that are that are less popular than her third to take over the reins And that's a coye maria hill nebula Wait Everyone thought nebula was popular War machine I would rather have her have her had it than uh captain marvel Yeah, absolutely. I am not kidding when I say anybody I could I can theorize a better storyline for any one of them than who are doing Excuse me. Oh no, there are loads of potentially good storylines you could do with her Yes, I agree have a video on this No, you don't don't lie to me Uh being the fact that the oh, sorry Mola have you seen the new stuff about there being a black woman being cast as the new 007 Yes, it was a previous super cheddar Here is money for rags because I've been subbed to him for so long. I've seen his face Oh my god. Oh, wow. That was a long time ago. I don't look like that anymore though That's what's so interesting I have changed. I've grown Marvel cinematic universe reading is hard direction um upwards and forwards If you get my meetings Me sorry. I'm actually about the I'm probably actually about the same height your opinion But I have um, I just look different Oh, that was like somebody super chat the link to the old straw pole. Is that what this? Oh, it's no ignore that It's a straw pole for should we kick dude rotic I mean they've super chatted it. I feel like it's only fair to put that down to the Down to the people other votes on it. What does it say? I didn't check Why does it say yes no yes, but green Yes, but green the only thing I can think of is that that's a reference to the up next video with hawkeye, but green Yeah, uh majority the votes on it and no so Go At gary they have set up spider-man to be hated by j jona and the cops Possibly to stuff. Maybe yes. No. Who knows what's gonna happen. That's what I did Yes, no. Mm-hmm. Who cares about spider-man era 51 raid is coming Get excited right be there or be square Um, I just like giving y'all money Marvel Marvel has established infinite universes. Why is mcu characterization a problem read richards was a villain in one of them, right? That's the kind of freedom that i'm okay with uh, this is what I mean like could I envision an mcu with spider-man is uh a villain to Venom like Go for it. Let's see what that looks like and it's almost like no It's out of character for both of them. I'd be like, oh Oh What if it wasn't what if they developed it in a way that it was in character for No No, it's not allowed. Uh, why are you talking about spider-man spider-man is out this How many of those have been so far? I think that's the I want to say fourth or fifth. I'm not actually sure Send more. Oh god. The same guys super chat again with the poll to kick dudes What? Uh, peter parker comes with rules ben may mj. They could have made not parker spider-man and it would have made more sense for iron man to babysit him He wasn't babysitting though. I don't know that any character comes with rules when you adapt them Oh, well, uh, sorry when you re-envision them when you have a Division even even adaptations have to uh, this is what we're talking about when you take Something bad and make it good In an adaptation. Does it make the adaptation worse or does it make it better? This is a complicated question Um Yeah, the idea that peter parker is a stat of specific character. I'm not sure I even uh Yeah, because I might not experiment Um The idea that he has to come with ben may and mj I'm just curious. What if you turn them into tom healer and mary jones I guess that's kind of what happened in homecoming. So I got my answer already um Isn't bland usually considered to be bad. Just say you think it's bad I can't remember who described what is Oh I can't remember I'll uh, we'll definitely do a meme selection I don't understand the reference in this picture That's all right. It's okay. It wasn't meant for you I get it Uh, those who dislike homecoming usually have context for what a better spider-man looks like homecoming isn't bad But it could have been so much better I don't really know of anything that couldn't be improved. I don't disagree with the statement I'm all I've been watching for a while now. I found you through your dark souls 2 series And I'm wondering if you would do one for dark souls 3 Will give me a little long answer on it objectively Um, by the way, I have my money also high rags Hello So, uh dark souls 3 it would be tough for me to give a take on it right now That's not kind of generic because I haven't played it in so long But the idea that the world is A little too disconnected and that was disappointing to me I really liked how tight the mechanics seemed to be the hitboxes were glorious. Um The AI was mostly well behaved Uh It wasn't DS2 levels. That's all we need to get to really And I liked a lot of the boss fights. I felt I felt they were very engaging But I can't necessarily go much beyond that because uh, again, I haven't played it in years now Or at least it feels that way. I don't actually know how long it's been for sure I need to play Sekiro as well Uh, yeah, I like it. I don't think I'd be making a video on it. Um It would be if it was on a list it would be very far down compared to a lot of other things and I feel like Never be able to get to it. But I did like it a lot Uh Want to hear mohler read love listening doing army Want to hear mohler read love listening doing army Like I'm not sure about that one, but I agree Uh, can we just go back to shitting on tlj? We did in fairness moments later A story doesn't need to be willed ending to be good Uh, the I think that was brought up briefly about like how there wasn't enough of um I think I think jeff said something about like some of the smallest stories not being as effective But we didn't really get to talk about it though Uh, but if any hero is going to be small scale, I know right? Well, uh, I don't know if I mentioned this before but critical drinker brought it up as a criticism that Homecoming was small scale. I got to speak to him the other day and he said that um He definitely wants to take that back as a criticism and that he doesn't necessarily even agree with it anymore because um A smaller scale allows you to have repercussions That are just not possible when the world is ending if you go my I might miss my date with my girlfriend It's like, uh, it's about to be cracked in two. I think we can Like oh man That point you're gonna miss the date either way Mm-hmm Uh, story doesn't need to be world-ending to be oh, sorry. I read that Spidey is a perfect character for movie level budget tv series focus on new york in my opinion great world building I associate with ps4 spidey 90 series Especially spidey season one writers would be showrunners Very well No, the audience knows tony won't save him in the third act since it would ruin the hero's journey I don't understand why the possibility in universe of that happening ruins it when you know it won't happen I don't know that uh anyone does or doesn't know it will or will not happen It's it's really based on how you um I guess I don't want to say interpret how you take the story because I think nude rotic might actually have been expecting that peter was about to die and then iron man bursts in and Tackles vulture and then like says peter get out of here that sort of thing And I could I can see why he may have thought that was going to happen But then the fact that it didn't doesn't necessarily make him feel that the progression up to that point was any better Because that's what he thought he was gonna the film was almost leading to but uh, you know My take was the complete opposite. I was like he's alone here. He has to do this himself complicated I couldn't digest the tony stark father figure fiasco at the start But this iteration of spider-man seems solely based on the basis of the popularity of the avengers and not on the popularity of spider-man alone Uh, with that being said, I think mcu spidey is the best spider-man. We've gotten such a long time I love tom holland as peter parker and spider-man. I also love you mohler and rags Oh, I'm not sure if he's addressing that too Uh, nude rotic or or death or even wolf, but oh, I think he's just saying I love you mohler and rags. Okay Love you too, buddy. Um but the The tony stark father figure fiasco. I'd be curious to explore Why you'd label it a fiasco um Hey mold daddy and big boy rags Mm-hmm Hello Did any of you see spider-man into the spider-verse? I enjoyed the film and i'm curious to see what you thought of the movie Have you seen that? I have not seen we should watch that. Uh, I was impressed Very fun. Yeah, sure. I'm down for it. You bet. We'll do it But I haven't seen the comic. Oh, no Well, it's a good interpretation of the comic from what I've heard. So you'll be fine rags Thoughts on the 70s spidey films I've not seen 70s. Oh, I haven't seen them. I've heard of them I think we covered their trailers on the uh, oh, right. Yeah the stream with um drunken peasants And they look glorious but um I really want us japanese spider-man one day Weird that there was a this there's so many fucking spider-man's Do you know about japanese spider-man? It's fucking crazy. I'm sure it's the wild anymore. There's just like loads of crazy shit in it Mark Webb made 500 days of summer the best breakup movie of all time. Have you guys watched it? objective opinion I have seen it. I enjoyed it, but I can't remember a lot of it outside of people get together and then break up And it's funny Well, I haven't seen it About the movie funny, but Jay, have you seen it? I'm gonna leave that open to interpretation. There you go guys. You can try and figure out if Jay has seen the movie I'm not gonna specify what one. I'll just leave it there Still watching weird tweet like uh, I think it was today when I said I'd seen bird man And someone replied to me with that with like cool one down 99 to go on like 99 what? Like oh, I'm soon. I'm gonna have seen all 100 films. I'm confused Yeah, okay People expect you to see like five of them And I've already seen more than one film. So I'm confused by this Okay, it's a metric. He's running of once you've seen an additional 100 from now you will have raised a level in film critique Oh, like Patrick Williams. Yeah Levolve I've posted the straw poll once again. Uh It does look like it's settling at 70 30 when it settled at 60 40 before I don't know what that means because It can mean anything I don't know if people's minds are changed or if we've just got a different pool of people today Like this, you know anything could mean anything means the film is good No 30 percent of people thought it was garbage Garba Marjo Still watching these out of order finding the origin of memes after I've seen them. I call it meme mento I like it Good reference that person if you find the origin of the me being the manager meme Can you send it to me because I have no idea how that happened? I mean, I am the manager To be honest, I was excited for captain marvel because I like the character from the comics the carol damvis version But I was horrendously let down I mean, I've heard that she's not great in the comics either. I honestly have no idea People have been saying That I read her comics. I remember nude roddick saying that she's not necessarily been very popular in her iterations in the comics either um F for disney for not letting sony use faithful adaptations of spider-man cast for the mcu spider-man movies Watching episode 29 and then bam i'm part of the toxic brood. I didn't want this I didn't ask for this. I must consider the victims of verbal terrorists. Yep The efab has a funny way of suddenly making you a toxic brood member Laps it right on you as you're sitting on your sofa Happens before You know, it happens Uh, did you see the fin origin comic? No wonder why this franchise is going downhill slice and dice, brothers I did see it. I see that j. Oh fin origin Like it wouldn't cool. I don't know if you can call it an origin necessarily But what I saw was he's well because it's not like it goes uh to like his Or anything No, no, well, it's like a comic slide of like a selection of things that apparently happen. He's like mopping on a ship and then I'm gonna find it on twitter because it was bad. Uh He's like got a friend and they refer to each other as their full f n two one eight seven f m Over in like sentences and I was like, uh, so awkward um Are you But he says um, he says something like fear the mop Holds it up like Why why'd you do this? You hate everything. You don't understand the themes It's on you can find it on twitter. It's embarrassing. I don't I don't know how Large it is as a whole how significant it is to the actual films, but I was just like, oh Um, I'm betting these five dollars that mola will not get the tfa critique series done before episode nine It's probably possibly a safe bet of this this juncture. We shall see like I said, I want to get it done before then But it doesn't mean I will I mean, I'm restricted by my own abilities. I'm afraid If marvel Just based on the fact that um, you've said your rages are observed for things that like are wasted potential Does that mean there's no possibility of like a rage for episode nine now because you have I'm guessing Not thinking it's going to be good Uh, it could be a mare It really depends on what the film does a mare but For all we know there's gonna be things in it that I go like, oh, shit That's not half bad, but it's like surrounded in loops loops Then again palpatine is back Palpatine Yeah, I could definitely see an unbridled mare happening because odd Like all that that whole vader thing where he throws him down He kills the emperor and saves the day and turns good at the end. Fuck that. He's still alive God imagine if it ends with the emperor's redemption The emperor kills kylo will I want? I see the error of my ways Long live democracy If marvel and sony's deal were to fail Neither company would be able to use the elements of spider-man as they were presented from the mcu Interesting On tracks go Nobody's ever mentioned how cheese theft suit looks like a biker leather gear the dawn clearly thought a fellow rider was stranded and needed a ride Yep Look what happened Uh at a friend's last night a man I have known since I was 10 a man I love he tried to show me a patrick will Will helm video. He says it's because he's always so happy. I would rather he fisted my mother. Oh my I would rather watch the patrick will helms video at that point myself, but hey Here's his in life Just found you guys i'm trying to catch up in my little free time. I'm on episode seven So I'll see you eventually keep up the great work also. Hi rags Hello, hi I like the idea that he's on episode seven try to catch up. It's like will we be able to outpace him? Um our cosmic chicken who art Who art with tonald massive be thy name thy efap fun? Blessed by the dawn as long as the spider's foretold give us this day our daily rhino milk and forgive us artisms I like it beautiful I like that too. That's good Spider-man homecoming unpersoned uncle ban worse than ryan removing luke morning han scene one wrote directed edited the scene The other wrote him out of existence No free but okay As we forgive those who tis them against us and lead us not into subversion but deliver jay from not watching the lord of the rings opinion if In someone could easily put that into some form of a video It's the e-fap prayer Yeah, we actually go back to a lot of these chats are just good lines for memes now Uh, yeah, we actually did go back to shitting on tlj. See that super chat had an arc You're not you're not the target audience only works when the opinion is negative Typically, yeah, you'll only see that is similar to when they say it's meant for children You only seem to see that rolled out when it's a bad thing Um I could see that becoming like a really backhanded way to insult something now like a euphemism for Imagine meant for children a imagine you came home from watching I don't know the new pixel movie like oh more so good. It's so great. I got this head all the sudden. I should go j You're not the target audience Yeah, it's meant for kids, dude, and you'd be like, okay What the hell All right, that's basically what bill marger, isn't it it's I just you know, this is the point though It's like you never see it in the reverse. It's always in defense. It's never in like. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's meant for kids So stop enjoying it. Oh, okay Uh, thanks for not having me arrested or mutilated yet. Here's some more money. Hope you have a great week glory to the toxic brood All right, you're the toxic brood This guy sounds like a worse version of was lee I uh I mean, I don't I don't know if I heard was lee's voice in his voice, but He was kind of annoying. I'll give you that really. Yeah, his voice is definitely annoying This guy sounds like a wolf, but gayer. How does he sound like wolf? I get the gayer Yeah, gayer, obviously, but no you're not geared in wolf toxic brood represent Oh some objective issues with homecoming you n words first the first scene showing vulture is useless what What that establishes his entire motivation. What do you mean? It's useless What this is why he becomes the vulture that scene It establishes the whole idea for why he is what he is And then number two the fact that peter's date ends up being the vulture's daughter is insanely lazy writing Okay, so it's not lazy writing because the film presents peter with a choice. It's not a convenience. It doesn't It's not a thing that allows peter to achieve a thing. It's it simply says peter Will you be a superhero or will you be not a superhero? I phrased that very well Is it contrived that? Yeah, he was vulture. I don't know that that would be contrived And how would the plot have gone if it didn't happen? What i'm suggesting is the nothing necessarily bad or good happened. It was it was presented to peter in the film Yeah, it was just a big surprise It's not you know, you know like in the way that uh, I don't know fucking peter is is running around because he's lost his two Uh web shooters because thrown around this whole city and then he gets thrown all the way back to where he lost And he lands right next to it. I'd be like wow that was fucking lucky because now it allows him to get it And you'll be more effective in battle that sort of good contrivance Yeah, it's not the kind of contrivance that this story stakes, but it is it allows the climax to happen Technically peter allows it that to happen. He chooses for it to go through like I said the movie's presenting with him with a choice Is it contrived that the movie presents a choice? I'd be like, uh, Yeah, because the choice was incredibly unlikely and it they needed to be presented the choice for the climax to happen I don't know that that's how I classify it. It's it's complicated because it's not um The standard kind of the way I would I would I would classify a contrivance. Like I said, it reminds me of the whole um Isn't it contrived that uh r2d2 ended up with luke in a new hope Ben Kenobi is right next to him. It's like isn't that contrives like well It's a it's an extremely unlikely event. I suppose but it it It presents luke with with the journey ahead. It's up to him now to decide what he's gonna do with this Like, okay Maybe I would classify it as a contrivance, but not a flaw. Does that make sense? Yeah, it depends on how you want to see coincidences. I mean everything I think if that happens is an incredible amazing coincidence anyway I I feel if you found a way to have that happen in a way that wasn't Really unlikely it would be better Like if you had a causal relationship between the two things and I just How do you have a causal relationship the results in the person he's dating having vulture as her dad? I didn't say I had a specific example in mind I'd have to I might be convinced on that. I'm not sure where I stand on it exactly. Um I get because you're not wrong when you say that uh the ending cannot take place unless he happens to be her dad But I guess okay, like So go I was just gonna say so I guess my take is that the ending There's there's two endings possible once you present that to him in the the the part of the film We want to see is what peter's going to choose to do You know like is it contrived that he's able to be able to choose in the first place and I was like, oh, I guess so I mean it would be less contrived if say the only reason that peter found out about uh vulture was because uh it was somehow tied to him going to the school and Vulture also having a connection to the school like if the connection came from the same place like maybe if vulture was at the dance Because he's someone else's parent like that, but like Well, no, that's what happened, but No, I'm suggesting that peter goes with his date and then he sees vulture's there Because vulture's there for his his his daughter who's unrelated to the person that peter's dating I mean, I feel like that would lower the stakes though as well, but I what I'm what I was suggesting is like if um The only reason that peter finds out that vulture like he what is it that happens in the film? He sees the explosion on the distance right and finds out about the vulture I'm saying if there was a way you could rewrite that so that uh peter finds out about the vulture from events that Uh happened like at the school because the vulture is you know connected to the school through his daughter Uh and that connection leads to the to peter finding out about him, but without finding out that liz is uh Connected to him. I feel like that could Definitely lower the contrivance levels Well, he did find out about the vulture through events that happened at the school though because it was the dance Which is the only reason they met Well, no, but that not that wasn't like the initial finding out about what the vulture was doing Was because of an explosion in the distance while he was at a party I thought I didn't know if rags wanted to respond or not. Um Yeah, because the the way the plot runs is that he sees the explosion in the distance that event leads him to have a chitari core That core is then chased by the dudes. He puts the tracker on the dudes. He ends up finding Vulture then Happens from there then he goes to the washington monument And then he finds out about the ferry because of the uh the guy that they were selling guns to that's how Uh, he follows that whole line um Like if you have the vulture say in the school for some reason and like It actually turns out he's there for a completely legitimate reason in the end He's there for like to talk to one of like lizard's teachers or something But then while he's there peter gets suspicious of him and then like I don't know See something in his bag or something like that It's a really tricky rewrite and I don't think the payoff is that big to for improvement wise, but I'm sure it's possible um, so Did it is did it make it feel artificial to you when you saw it? Not when I was first seeing it, but I think it would be better if it wasn't like that I mean, I'm that's basically it didn't bother me I'm trying to figure out how it's defined basically because like My brain is crossing crossing the streams of the the the idea of um It's a it's an unlikely scenario But what's peter gonna do about this because it's not it doesn't necessarily make anything happen One way or the other for uh for anything. It's it's it's just a This is this is what's happening. What do you think peter and we just we just have to watch What he wants to do in relation to it um, but I think I can agree with with with with you pretty much entirely. I just um I should probably think on it but in that case uh So like would you call it lazy writing then because I guess Would it come under that? I'm I call it flawed. I'd call it Imperfect writing, but It's interesting. I don't I don't know if you call it lazy because I don't think there are very many simple ways you could do it better And achieve the same effect Well, all I'll do it Absolutely conceived that is it likely that the person that peter decided to date school also happens to be the daughter of the main villain of the film separately like I don't think we can deny the the likelihood of that is very low So, uh, the the less Likelihood related stuff. There is the more cause of an effect stuff. There is tends to be uh, something to be approved of the consistent storytelling yeah, um But you know as as as the film goes if that's it. It's not still not we're still doing pretty good I think uh, yeah, coincidences do happen occasionally. That's the thing. It's not a plot hole It's just um unlikely. Yeah And like I said it, uh, it doesn't allow A peter to win or it doesn't allow the villain to win It simply presents the scenario and we have to see what happens now not to say that it's still it's not contrived as a result of that But I still think it's um Not as bad just the path's Happening to cross again Yeah In a way that raises the stakes Would you agree that the final act of homecoming lacks stakes when considering that if peter hadn't stopped vulture Then tony would have stopped him because he'd finally see him as a threat So I think the idea the finale of homecoming is that they're going to send the decoy drone so that eventually tony would figure out That uh, he's been stolen But by that time vulture and his team would probably have all the the shit hidden Because that's the whole deal is that they know how to counter the tracking. Um technology of the people they They're pitching off of Or stealing from I guess Uh, so I would imagine they'd have like some form of a hangar where they'd park that shit and then they would just Live off it then with all the stuff in that Yet Um, but no tony might be interested in trying to hunt him down Um But that's the whole point is that uh, peter wanted to prevent that wanted to prevent the him stealing it in the first place Because hey, man It's an irresponsible person stealing a lot of power Hmm What Have you guys heard of arch warhammer and if so would you consider having him on? He's on the list. Yeah Uh, the fans didn't kill star wars. It was murdered Yeah, that's right Hauloff, do you know how much I've sacrificed? That's um Fucking spider-man one meme crossed over with the guys from collider beautiful Uh, the prequels seemed to uh, the prequels seemed even too childish in comparison to the originals to me Even though I was 10 at the time it seemed to pander way too much. I am Well, it did really show that goofy. It's it was almost like a super version of like the ewoks Yeah, like jar jar was definitely sprinkled all over it It felt like ice age level goofy Kind of yeah Yeah, but even the first ice age had like some edgy humor in it sit and jar jar actually Similar in terms of some aspects of the character and then I guess you could argue like a one is done better than the other I want to see them switched now It could work I don't necessarily think it would be bad for either film I mean I'd watch them Me suck old will he blame red letter media? Uh, oh you talking about the guy we're covering the video. He probably does to a certain degree if the logic is that eating the prequels Uh, the prequels are objectively something Then it's your fault if there's a bad reaction to that criticism. The prequels are objectively great. This is a hill I will fucking die on uh I mean in like a meanie way Like in a silly non serious sort of way maybe Hey rags and mohler watching all efap on episode six right now Good luck. That's actually getting to be quite the herculean journey Isn't that the rhino milk one? I I think we we covered you on five didn't we all was at six Oh, yeah, I was five And yeah, did uh You you want us to cover a certain video right in a future efap j you remember? Oh, yeah, that should be fun. How was that for a narrative arc your character in the efap lore? I mean that's great, but they have no idea what you're talking about I don't have an idea what you're talking about a video that is critical of j specifically For the idea. Oh god. No, he didn't oh god. No that was terrible What no not that one not that one that we watched not that one. Oh good um But yeah, just the idea that he he was once a subject then a guest then a then a common guest now Efap will potentially be reacting to a video ripping him down a notch for his terrible videos Reacting with It's a pretty good arc. I think there's been a lot of really strong development. I think I think it all made sense I thought it was a bit contrived that j happens to be free a lot of the times the efap is on I think that that kind of right. Yeah, it is a bit odd because I asked j all the time if he wants to hang out with me And he says no, he's always busy He's always, you know, there's dicks to suck and stuff like that and he's he's just way too busy But all of a sudden whenever there's an efap imitation it just so happens that he's free I don't I don't control the timing of the dicks I wish I had that power, but I don't I have the timing I control the timing of the dicks He could have just asked around You're a much more assertive man than I assertive is Uh The 30 year gap didn't explain the change in luke. He was a master jet I would no trauma when he thought to kill ben. He forgot yoda's key teacher kondegaba a jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense never attack Yoda teaches him being completely selfless Focus on the present Luminous beings are we control control? You must control and control anger fear aggression the dark side of the force They are easily they float We didn't even see the 30 years I would have been okay with it if we saw it and it was well written But that would probably take a few movies How many movies does that take to cover 30 years? And you could do a great trilogy in between the current In the sequel in between the sequel trilogy and the ot With great characters it'll make the sequel trilogy becomes great trilogy How good do you think you could make the sequel trilogy in retrospect by putting another in a trilogy in between them? If you like really if it was really well written and just if characters being in places they are when we meet them they could help them for sure Yeah, the world building just needs as much help as it can get Oh, yeah, the world building is still my biggest gripe and I don't I know that's like a not even a populous dance I mean people hate the world building, but most people will go with the characters Yeah, yeah, the characters do seem a lot more dirt. You got to deal with them on screen for in a much more personal way Can we just turn this into eFap movies for and watch big trouble in little china stars makes me sad I don't do those live because we'll get hit with copytisms I don't have copy but but luckily For eFap meme watching youtube is redoing its copyright system. Wait, are they making it better? They're making it legit better What the fuck? Yeah, they've upset jay now rex No, I'm you enjoy it when videos get taken down I can't believe jay. This is what people's problem is with you every time We we try to be unified on this podcast as a force for good in the world and every time something good happens Well, I'm the manager. So if you disagree with me, you're wrong That's not true at all incorrect Managers can be wrong Managers are evil as far as I know. I check the bible. Yes Unless you're the customer in which case you're always right. You're wrong A manager is the closest thing you've ever been to a man Also an ager Oh wait, if red light media got a video predicting rise of skywalker, is that true? Oh, they do. Yes I got a lot of videos to watch today. They've got a video red light media got a video try to predict what's gonna happen at rise of skywalker Oh, I haven't seen it yet. It's gonna be funny. I basically woke up in eFap. So yeah, same for me. Um Brags you have weird dreams, man I do have weird dreams, but I can't control them James they are very um, they're all over the place, man James more needs to buy the rights to star wars so we can collectively write better films That would be interesting a film written by like a thousand people How would I wonder how that would run you'd have to like keep running votes on each like sentence or something That would be a really interesting experiment that we totally could Twitch rights star wars. Yeah. Yeah Uh, I'll take it. Oh my god. I'll take it become a meme so quickly I'd take the dawn star wars any day. Absolutely again. Oh without a doubt an apple a literal apple. I would take it That's an animal I know the worst thing to me about homecoming is that it's just okay objectively doesn't hit the highs of ramy or the lows of amazing mj is inconsequential In homecoming sure she's inconsequential A lot of characters who aren't though Uh, yeah, I don't know. I liked a lot of the payoffs in homecoming That's just me Jeff wake up bond will be female in 25. Oh, I'm I'm sure he's gonna be uh having his take on that Very interesting. I order you mauler to make more videos. Oh, they're coming. They're on the way Uh, gotta get back to work. Love you guys and the fandom menace Yay Episode one through three are like a six out of ten better than a lot of movies Okay Uh, imagine if they try to do civil war two in the mcu kim john danvers played off as correct and heroic Would be great for discussion I'm all or I recently watched your dk dks two vids all 11 hours a question How can you say the game is pointlessly hard just to kill you and that it's too easy because life gems It's also de-spawning. So if you're stuck enemies eventually go away Um So I'd have to remember exactly what I said But if I'm talking about some of the environments and elements of like, um, let's say the iron keep Or like the poison again, I'd have to go back into the video So I'm probably talking about specific areas where they try their ass off to just kill you in the cheapest ways possible but then If you're getting insta killed Life gems will be able to save you. It looks like a life gem can't save you from an insta kill, but If you're running on just health going down slowly life gems will be your best friend and you won't be able to be beaten And um, yeah, like the game is really easy apart from the cheap bullshit insta kill moments Yeah, like, uh, sorry. I just remembered one of them. So like when they pack like fucking 13 enemies as an ambush around you And like they can stun lock you and a bunch of other things can happen It's like, yeah life gems aren't going to be able to save you from that and he said Also de-spawning if you're stuck enemies will eventually go away. So in DS2 if you kill enemies enough times in a row The area just stays permanently clear So the theory goes But you can complete the game by slowly moving through and killing everything, but i'm pretty sure everything gets 10 lives So it takes a long fucking time Um, but yeah, you can play the game like that If you really really want to Yeah, there's the A mechanic where you can abuse it if you have incredible inhuman patience I wouldn't recommend it. It would be really boring Well potentially boring. Maybe someone find that very interesting I'm sure there's someone out there who's actually killed everything in the game permanently just to see what it would be like I mean, that's probably a speedrun category, right? Uh, I don't know. Wouldn't that take a billion years to do? Yeah, but that still How would that be a speed? Sure, but you can do a speedrun any category. I get yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right That would be a good thing to watch though. I can fucking assure you Like you just you need to put on a movie. There would be like those three people who who really want to see that And then there'd be like three more think they really really want to see that and then get three minutes then and go Disney is an abusive husband and guys like this are the battered wife. Oh my Anyone else times you get that impression, man Anyone else realize that tfa and tlj take place immediately after each other for a total of five to six days in universe time If rise takes place point that out. Yeah I think it's less than that Like it's like i'm pretty sure over the course of five six days is probably true But I mean like the time between the two movies. I'm pretty sure I mean, there's no time between Rey's story of both movies But that's where the timeline gets a little bit confused Because there is definitely time for the resistance Yeah, if rise takes place straight after tlj the whole lot happens in just over a week of time They've confirmed. I believe that it is a year jump. So we've we've gone through 365 days of stuff Oh boy Well, that should be justifiable then for rey to be a complete different character now Oh, yeah That makes sense Uh came home last night If they like actually do to rey what they did to luke and then that would split the fandom like again Like the the the sequel defenders Who are still in on it would like totally split In exactly the same way that the whole like fandom did it initially between uh You know, you know what i'm saying. No, I don't you racist Came home last night tapped on the window to my living room lights on inside dog woke up and walked to the window He couldn't see me turned on phone's light so he could see my face. He jumped back barking Okay, all right. That sounds like it'd be funny Yeah, haha Dave lee also condones disney's unprofessional response to the aerial casting So I think whatever disney does he'll be there to deep throat them. I don't know who Dave lee is What was that response Dave lee was the the the guy we covered that was Dave lee. Oh, was it shit? Okay Yeah, that was Dave lee You for you keep you're so heartless I can't believe you think all australians look alike I thought we covered fringy because they're all fringy other difference Um, that's what fringy looks like without his green outfit I don't know what disney's unprofessional response to the aerial casting is by the way. I haven't even seen that they responded Yeah, I don't know anything about it myself. I'm sure it's golden though Uh loved more as replies to hello grito on twitter. Yeah, so on twitter Hello grito was making posts that are like Lol, if you compare the emperor from episode five to episode six is completely different facial prosthetics They've ruined the film lol xd xd xd And um after I think I saw the third one I was like, okay like is the joke here that um People who criticize the sequel trilogy have really bad arguments and that um, you're trying to like Repeat them and parody them onto the ot as well And then he said it has nothing to do with the sequel trilogy I was like, uh Well, he said it has nothing to do with the sequel trilogy. It's simply him trying to uh Present how he thinks criticism might go of the ot if it was released today And then I was like, okay, but based on the criticism of the sequel trilogy, right? I didn't get a response though Oh Because I'm pretty sure that listen if you can't understand his super funny joke Then you just aren't worth the time to explain His joke was hilarious Some people were like, oh, you missed the joke. I was like, I was criticizing the joke, but okay Like yeah, I get it. It's satire of the the crappy channels that are like star wars is the worst movie ever now because Luke's hair didn't match the scene previously to the one he's in now, but I just be like, okay How often does that even happen and like You know that people have like equally stupid arguments in reverse They'll be like this movie's amazing because luke is in it or something you'd be like, oh You get to look at luke. It's a disney fanatical Star Wars universe. Yeah Whatever that means I'll just watch that the other day. It was really fun. I'll buy a although I do think he put up a better performance than me to Lee. I've got to say I actually think so too Wait, who did sorry Random It Was it what's this name? It's like a short version of a real thing. We've got my Ren reviews No, no, no not Ren reviews. That's a great debate guy Oh, right. You think he did better than major lee? Yeah, I think so. I'm still I don't know what I said the last time I was asked that but I feel undecided about it As usual. Oh, well, there you go Um, I'll buy a porch It's spelt P. R. G No, it's porch disney fanatical universe Would you rather decide Wait, would you rather declare to the world the last Jedi as a masterpiece? No takebacks or Have all of your fingers cut off at the knuckle and then have red hot spikes jammed into the bloody stumps All right, the last Jedi can be okay. Yeah, I mean I I'm gonna go with the phone I like my fingers. Okay I mean The knuckler the knuckler Uh, Jay No, I'm trying to stand cutting his fingers halfway off as though they made them twice as strong Oh, is that how that works neat? Yes Uh, Jay, would you deserve herpes from bathwater drinking? Uh, define deserve Oh, thank you Well, in fairness, he's probably watched that debate rags. I don't know So he's prepared for this, but uh, how would you define deserve jay? There's a reason. He's our manager Always prepared Hang on Do something or have Do or have something or show qualities worthy of a reaction which rewards or punishes as appropriate As appropriate. That's uh, the next definition we need Define appropriate I mean, I would say it's appropriate for you to get herpes by drinking Someone else's bathwater And when you say appropriate there, what do you mean? Uh, I don't know All right Would you say that it is a a natural and real consequence that can arise from you making that decision? Yes. All right Now I agree. Yeah, I think you could say it's a natural consequence. Yeah Yeah That's a plot contrivance though a lot contrivance getting herpes is a I think most would agree that when you say deserve there's a moral aspect to it as a A punishment that is justly delivered Yeah, moral aspect. No, it's like it's not like stupid people deserve to feel pain. Thank you Well, yeah, I was gonna say I think even with that definition wolf was like, yeah Place I think he said play stupid games win stupid prizes Yeah, pretty much, but you know It's it's it's everybody. I think we did a straw poll for that and the majority of people are actually on team wolf for that one Yeah, you know, they're wrong No one chooses to be stupid But if you choose to inflict your stupidity onto other people at that point you deserve sped things Yeah, I uh I think I'm pretty much just intent that goes back to the moral argument Yeah, I'd line up pretty much with the whole like I would I would laugh and then I would be like, no, that's they don't deserve that As stupid as they are to drink bathwater And I like there's I don't think there's a moral precedent that we should provide them with herpes Okay Um, I would I'd love I'd love to see a world where that was like the moral precedent I'd be like I fucking dystopia based on memes And like the court is literally the the court of justice is based on memes. I would watch that Bring in the dancing lobsters And then nude rottick throwing a super chat for killing as much star wars as you can Believe me. We've we've killed it three four times this stream alone Tomorrow who knows it's so dead. Yep. We have fucked star wars up And we're gonna resurrect it soon enough and bring it all the way back down Eternal torment here's some money for j the executive producer so he may continue funding this toxic podcast show happy rhino milk good sirs Thank Have to give me a link Paypal at some point you you've actually got 30 dollars in total coming What are you gonna spend it on? um I'll let you know when the time comes You don't know. I don't know. I don't I don't know. No Probably big old core shaped dildos. I mean, I'll be real I might end up confusing it with like the other money that like I have I wouldn't keep track of which money it is and then I'll be like I'm spending somebody like what purchase will you make now that you know that There's 60 more dollarinos and well, that's the thing. I'm really boring. I know that my income So I save money whenever and I don't need to spend it really we okay. You don't you need to spend this though Oh, is that is that part of the rule? It's law. Yeah, it is actually. Yes. It's a law that has some exceptions You call it a rule. I don't know why you're saying. Oh, shit. It's free shit It's free stuff It is money with the express Yeah, it's money with the express purpose of spending I might spend it on an extended edition lord of the ring trilogy box set All right. All right. All right Is red letter media's version. I'm sure wolf would be very uh, wolf would approve. I want to see what chat's saying to that Is red letter media happy dear is red letter media's version of jenga from the last black spine episode the most intense piece of media ever Oh, yeah, junkers what they come it was actually really intense to watch that. Yeah, I loved it I had a feeling that it was going to be that they had two at every single Here if you want to be into the tapes it'd be like two structural ones that you could knock out the small ones But oh it was satisfying when it fell and then it was like, oh no now we have to watch all the tape They should have been shitty at it If they were shittier at it, then they would have had less misery watching all of them Uh, this is from southpaw My dad passed away on thursday night. This stream is just the thing I needed to get my mind off it for a moment Oh, sorry to hear that man. Yeah, I'm glad we could help Ducks, uh, hope you're doing okay, dude Hey rags, I have an external battery for the switch suggestion for you want me to send you the link. It's one I use and it's great Yes, go ahead and do that because that that might be helpful if I'm ever on a long long trip or something Uh, where can they reach you? You'd it to me on discord And if you can't if you don't know my discord then send it to my channel email Which is on my youtube page You should watch the arrow starring dan acroid I didn't know there was a film he was in called the arrow, but The acroid I don't remember if you guys have seen Ivan Ortega's last Jedi. If so, what did you think about it? Also, why is everyone in chat not given this video a like rhino milk? Um, I know he's made it. I haven't seen it yet Um The idea is to he's re-edited the last Jedi in full. I need to find time to watch it. It's my bad Yeah, don't see how you can save that film with edits. I thus pause because you're Yeah, it's a big reason for why I want to see it. I want to know what he's done Unless you're editing it so that every shot is like From behind the head and you've dubbed over it with new voice lines I mean, maybe Uh, by the way, elita battle angel is a bad adaptation. No idea how good a movie it is as such But I think some of the changes weaken it as a movie Very well could be this is the thing when you um, maybe Point out a movie's flaws. You can often if it's an adaptation You can often explain the floor through the adaptation and be like, oh, so they copied this over But they didn't copy this over and this caused this So without it it leaves this without its development that sort of thing And it's often very interesting to be like, oh, I see how that happened Uh What would a star wars battlefront movie look like and would you see it the focus on the 501st division and the troopers personality and the reactions to the war I'd love to see that. I think that'd be really good. Yeah, I'd be now with it. Yeah Um, as long as someone good writes it Disney emotap slash the mummy star wars grave robbers Or what? Um I guess they're trying to um Compare how one thing is is great and one thing can be terrible Think so I'm actually not sure this thing that is me is the mummy and star wars is the grave robber I'm not a hundred percent sure on that one. But fair enough Guys ryan dorsen made me realize a black chick is actually Preferable for ariel. She's from a single parent home steals money from ships consults a voodoo woman And tries to marry a rich white guy only problem is she can swim but air who cares How rude get sargon on to talk about starship troopers We could do that. I don't see why not they'll be easy to find videos that are critical of starship troopers Um, have you seen the starship troopers like two and three? Uh, yeah, I saw I I definitely saw the second one the third one. I think I saw like Oh god, it's terrible. We should watch it It is actually it is actually amazingly bad Hey rags Hey Now that you and wolf have super smash brothers That mean you two can finally smash Um in that way. Mm-hmm. And uh in a much less fun way. Yeah Loving the stream what? YouTube super chat sensors are incomprehensible last chat got flagged for the words friends and Friends and and really Well, you could be referring to nazis and other things so we had to preemptively block your uh So to read this right so he's gotten flagged for friends And a nationality and even a comma Susan and her apparently that was the combination Oh Maybe they assume that you're talking about Susan Wajiki Oh, he said Susan and her tribe Build this site women should not be allowed to vote. They shouldn't be allowed to work. This is rob by the way He got Uh All the chides americans in the mulan trailer speaking normal english and then mulan coming in with that moon rune accent was hilarious I didn't even oh, I watched that trailer on mute. That's why I don't know that I watched it while when fringy told me about it and I was just talking to him I'll put it on mute in the background. I was like, this doesn't look like mulan, but okay I guess because then I found out that they were like redoing it. I guess Um, cost real smith is mulan danito veto. Yeah I'm a land Watch it I will never defeat the huns. I will never see lord of the rings make me massive. Oh Casting like actors like that as the main characters in these And like just the least appropriate person possible would actually make these Disney remakes like give them a purpose and make them Yeah, people would actually be down with that. Yeah. Yeah I don't know what's the fuck out of that I absolutely has danito veto in everything. He's now there with a wig and everything Danny to veto was just every main character in from every film. Yeah Yeah A good stream today sent you a new meme on discord moorl. I hope you all enjoy it next showcase. Bye rags you beautiful massive Goodbye See long man really is bad can't push out two to three ten minute or last videos a week that barely provide any kind of actual criticism without the dreaded Objectivity clearly means you suck hashtag short man best Well, I've been ruined No, well, they had to recover Rags, can you believe these idiots pay Pay us for this shit. Oh Is that a quote from wolf? At some point possibly now. I think it was one of my quotes. Yeah, I think it was one of yours actually Uh, jim and bad also when is arch going to guest I never know specific dates until the following one, but soon all of these people's are on lists I guess big old funky lists I'd like to see carol danvers get batista bombed Possible to step arms for drax is in the universe. We could happen Hi moorl. Thank you for being a soothing voice of peace. I wish the captonian thaw battle versus thanus was much longer should have been a trilogy I would have liked it if we got more of that scene That was that was my peak investment. I was like, oh my god beat them up guys beat them up And then they start doing things and it's like Like when thaw electrocutes iron man blasting with lasers cool Also cap using melanie. It was I guess was cool. Did anyone like that bit? I don't remember that was great. It was all right The area 51 charge is such an obvious desperate damage control signal to discredit accounts who are covering the epstein story By baiting them into retweeting crazy alien stuff such tricks What's the epstein story is that I mean Epstein got arrested for like a sex ring or something huh Would love to see some art of bronald snoke bronald snoke may I'm down with bronald snoke spider-man revealed his identity To oh, so this is this is when we were talking about don't spoil anything and he's it's a bunch of fake spoilers So spider-man revealed his identity to the world art may got shot He made a deal to give up his marriage with mj for everyone to forget including people who knew oh, shit So this is actually sorry. This is from the comics. I guess Oh, is that the what was it? What was being referenced the day something Uh, one long day should be my google history One more day one more day I'm afraid to look at my google history. So I guess that's the continuity. That's what happens He aren't may get shot He makes a deal to give up his marriage with mj and for everyone to forget including people who knew before his world reveal Okay How is it done though? People are saying mafesto in chat. Is it you cast the spell or some evil devil feel I guess That sounds weird Uh, wouldn't the argument for batman killing be more about the justification for him to kill Also, if his intention was to kill to stop someone or the force needed to stop someone resulted in death That's my point. So when people say batman cannot kill I'm always like, isn't it more important That is is values are remaining intact rather than a certain action Is like you can make someone take an action for a lot of different reasons. Absolutely I that's the thing if that is his core value like nothing supersedes that ever then It could be interesting to see like ways he tries to worm his way out of it. I don't think that that is who he is That's like, I think if he was in a situation where he knew Like oh if I kill this one person the entire world will be saved then he wouldn't he would do it, but Like it could be interesting to see a character who's essentially got Just very clear lines that they weren't cross Movie binge update again watch Terminator 2 last night and wow was I impressed? Uh, the first one was like a seven out of ten, but this one was outstanding They really don't make strong characters like they used to yeah, it's like Typically my stand-in for favorite movie of all time. I watched that a criminal amount of times. I love They do make strong female characters like they used to just not in the films that we watch Not in the films we watch They were the ones we don't watch. I'm sure they're I'm sure they're around They're somewhere you gotta go look for them If the next villain is the rhino then spider-man writers watch efap confirmed Why would they want to vilify a rhino? Why would they do? They are the purest of creatures Like if spider-man was to milk this rhino, I could see that being important, but it wouldn't thus create a villain out of the rhino. That's ridiculous Spider-man accidentally killed I remember reading this before I'm pretty sure this is true spider-man accidentally killed mj with this radioactive spurb in the comics Should that be in the films? Wait what? I don't know the context for this, but I remember reading it from other people so I'm assuming it's true But yeah, apparently Got radiation poisoning because I guess they fucked and he has radioactive spurb because he bit by radioactive spider Then he killed him and imagine finding that out God that would be awkward in a film you could do it, but man Peter your sperm Didn't you know oh apparently spider-man rain, so that is and it was never a part of the main comics continuity Uh more let's say So I just want to know if anyone in chat has read it. Is it played serious or as a joke? What the fuck is spider sperm? It's this super chat more or say this in your review voice. Hello everyone Welcome to part three of my review of star wars force awakens before I start I'd like to make the following public service announcement. Don't send your friend scat hentai Why did you super chat that for 20 dollars? You need to say that in your review voice. No, I don't it's not something I need to do That's what the super chat said. You have to do it. That's what the super chat said Well, if we followed all the orders of super chats, we'd be in a very different position. We'd be in a better place It could be for a meme and you're ruining this person's meme by not doing I mean, it's from a guy who says a lot of very strange things in super chess Oh, it's not wrong. Okay, so your face No Samuel I recognize that Well, we'll talk about hello Greedo being a gay on twit We've already talked about a gay on twit That was from creamy sheath The fucking guy is Uh insomniac spider-man is the most spider-manny spider-man version. Sam Raimi movies suck MC movies don't MC movies don't suck as much but ps4 spidey is the best I've not actually hid the take the spider the sam Raimi movies suck as a whole I don't know anybody who actually typically criticizes spider-man too Oh, no, you have seen that take cosme note. Um, that's why I said typically because He tried I don't know what the hell he was doing to that video though He was trying to have a take. I don't know I don't understand that man Spider-man in the mcu is an amalgamation of several different iterations of spider-man, but at his core He's still spider-man. He still chose to be spider-man even though it makes his life rough breed Sorry to say mola, but the efab website will take even longer due to my laptop's death. That is absolutely okay We we love that way regardless Yeah, you're amazing You're you're beautiful You're beautiful Wolf and rags banned from twitter for mean words. Meanwhile a terrorist organization John brown gun club is still allowed to operate after what just happened I don't know what happened with the john brown gun club either Didn't like icis have a twitter for ages. I don't know Yeah, but they're icis and we're just us like I still have no idea what tweet got me banned Like they just straight up don't tell you they're just like, oh, yeah, you were you were promoting hatred against the Relate a race of religion or something like that. I'm like, where Where but you know, it's twitter. They're a bunch of you just did get over it Uh, it's the big gay Did you did you know that george lucas based star wars on the spanish civil war? Franco was a palpatine Vader was catholic church hitler was grand moff tarkin and the defenders of the spanish republic the rebel alliance Interesting homecoming is a very solid tightly written film I just have very subjective issues with it feeling more like an iron man's spin-off than a spider man solo film It's completely a me thing though Fair enough I really do see it as a spider man film with iron man sort of in it for a bit Every every portion of iron man's involvement is always from peter's pov and uh Very short and he typically subverts tony. So he's just more of a fathering figure authority figure Can't wait for your endgame mayor also. Hi guys They chose the middle ground Hello Hello, hello Hello Oh, yeah, you can say nibba Because that's that's the easiest way to get past it Nibba got nibba cap nibba thor Nibba spider man stormtrooper aerial james bond I'm guessing some of them are the comics or something. I don't know That feel when i'm gonna live to see my world. No, there are replacements Oh, but I mean, you know the aerial one swimming his reference and james bond Stormtrooper i'm guessing talking about fin But uh, yeah, spider man. That's not even a replacement. What spider man would be marz morales But that doesn't count right because that's not Marz Morales I don't think there's even like I don't care enough about races to have hard and fast rules for what's characters count I don't think you should I think you should keep things as they were originally intended At least in the sense of don't create new characters That you should create new characters instead of just overtaking old ones just to push what is clearly a political agenda. Which is the big thing that's in now Opposite like just do whatever you want cast you have as good like fucking MJ is a good casting the ancient one is a good casting both of them race band And they're both fine What do you think rags? That depends. Oh, I thought we thought we both kind of they're a thing I mean, I think it's very obvious why they're doing it. I don't think there's any ounce of artistic integrity behind it Well, what about um, the ancient one was originally ancient and is now white What about that? Why would my rule be any different? Well, because I don't think that would be done for the same political motivation Maybe Wasn't the ancient one a guy I would prefer Yes So yeah, why not? My take is typically that if Those elements are important to the character then it would affect the adaptation but Typically speaking, I don't know why you would deviate from it if you're trying to make a faithful adaptation if you're just trying to Create something new with the best resources you have at hand And there is no hint of you don't have JJ Abrams being like everybody should be asian like then go for it, I guess Yeah, because with Disney and stuff that they've said I'm just But I I think when Disney Decides who directs what I think they're very selective about who they choose and for what reasons And after they're clear, uh Messages, you know messaging that they want to be super and inclusion and diversity and all that stuff I just I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt Yeah, that's based purely on their behavior ended the super chat with saying that feel when I'm gonna live to see my world turn into brazil This is from raw by the way Waiting for all his e-fap approval discord 9 9 8 9 9 8 1 9 Don't know what you're referring to exactly. Did you just read out someone's discord to the whole stream? I doubt it whose name on discord is discord 9 8 1 9 Wait, no, isn't that the code that goes next to it? But you both they'd have to have the person's name you need the name And besides even if they had that you can change your code number if you want Like mine is three thousand Because I said it that way because it's easy to remember In fact, there will be a pop quiz on the next e-fap what my discord number is It'll be a shitty pop quiz because you can all check whenever you please on discord for the question I don't know lame. That would be we actually like make a little test sheet. You have to Uh, we have like a pop quiz selection of things like what is the origin of massive and like the four options would be like J Jxc like panther video joseph andison twitter argument blah blah blah blah blah. We just see how many people get everything right I mean, I think people would I run unironically take that they would probably enjoy doing it Yeah We probably have fans who get better scored than we did that's probably true Someone in the chat is probably going to end up making it now and sending it to us next time I'm not against that. Oh, we could do it live. That would actually be fun as a test Yeah, if someone actually does that and does a good one, then yeah, we could do that live You often rags tested on our own e-fap law. That would be interesting now. You've said that though You're gonna get several and you're gonna have to choose We can do that It would be okay I get people who say films don't need to be perfect adaptations But people who ask why does it matter that she's a redhead should be shoved off a roof What? um, so When you're adapting mary jane watson, you must have red hair uh It would be unfaithful not to have her have red hair, but I don't know that It's going to be a detriment to your story to not have her have red hair Yeah, I don't see how hair color is that big of a deal? Just be colorblind and it's fine He developed a crush on mj over five years while they were both piles of ash I get it But rags how many nine millimeters can you survive? Oh fucking hell that yeah, there was a conversation that we had and I think it was in your your discord the one that because i'm the only one here actually goes into your discord Oh, I do Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so we had a conversation where this guy was under the impression From like a diehard movie or something That it was unrealistic that someone died from Two nine millimeter rounds to the chest And we're all just baffled because we were all we were all baffled by the strange assertion It was insane Um, are we are we including the potential that one of the bullets hit his heart? I mean, I it's it's crazy. I know you just wrap your mind around it But of course two bullets to the chest can be lethal, of course. In fact, they probably will be most times Yeah, I mean if I was shot in the chest Twice and I knew an ambulance was on the way I would look down and be like i'm probably dead It very well could kill you absolutely Well, it hit the lung that was all it would take. Yeah, I'm pretty sure That was from crime wall gaming by the way. I'm pretty sure he's the doom guy Yes sausage man sausage man sausage man Very nice to see you sausage man We're gonna turn up the sausage man for eFap movies We would just be laughing, but I'm not against the idea I haven't seen borat That's I have that's quite the movie or that's I remember I saw that when I came out and I had no fucking clue what the hell was going on I I remember being convinced partially that it was like real Even though i'm pretty sure a lot of it is nests is kind of like is recorded Uh with candid like interviews from people actually being like terrified of him or at least very confused It's good shit. Yeah Like the movie's fake, but oh, I think a lot of the interviews and stuff they did were real Uh just ate dinner and now i'm back and fucking jay is here, so I guess i'll pay him to g uh geode team geode When you're gonna have joe rogan on eFap, I would have joe rogan. That'd be great You were welcome joe rogan. You are absolutely welcome to come on eFap whenever you'd like Uh rags. I find your lack of prequel love disturbing. Shall I educate you on their brilliance? Sure, you can try Uh do I mean I like the prequels in like a meme meme way. I don't think they're quality, but they're like silly Mimi Yeah, I think he's referring to like Actually well written I think anyway, um I mean he can think that if he wants From my perspective the jedi are evil Do captain marvel cinema wins video now more or you absolute massive We will consider it in the future according to jay many people wish to see it I've seen those of people want you to do it Your opinion jay Based on I thought well, maybe maybe I've just blanked them in my head. I don't know Uh, I recently bought a collection that has all of the extended middle-earth movies Should I watch the extended hobbit movies since I have them or should I skip them? Um, I don't know about the extended hobbit movies I actually don't really know what a lot of the deleted scenes are on those for lord of the rings Definitely without a question. What's the extended and if the question is uh Should you watch the first or second trilogy before after just go with lord rings fist In case I don't even know if this is possible, but in case the hobbit movies somehow Drain a bit of the magic out of lord rings. I don't know if that's a thing that happens, but don't risk it Um, only give this money Only give this money to rags when he makes another video. Otherwise you keep it more All right, I think you've got another one on the way soon. I'm yeah Yeah, I'm I'm working on it It's a little bit long it turned out to be longer and a little bit more in-depth than I thought But I think that's just because I'm naturally long-winded. I need to get myself to Talk less actually Long because I think that that bogs me down. Yeah I just go and go for fear of not being thorough enough I yord more yord yord. Are you bored molla? Do we bore you? I'm just tired. I've not slept like At all. It's too hot these days I can't sleep when super hot. I've been over this with recommends an air condition I'm considered They don't have those in the kingdom. They don't exist lies. You can ask a warlock to create one for you Well, when's the last time you saw a warlock? Um, well, here's the thing. Maybe we see warlocks all the time and we just don't know their warlocks Or maybe I do know that warlocks. How do you assume these things about me? I didn't assume anything. I said maybe I had change. Why did you assume that I assumed? Whoa? Look guys, you've been friends for years. You have to do this For years. Oh speaking of years. When is the when is the first anniversary of EFAT? It is the 22nd of august which is a month and seven days from now And are we gonna have a party? Well, the crazy thing is a month and seven days That's a guarantee of at least five EFAPs. We we're doing 40 three right now is it so I'll lead us up to 48 Which theoretically we could start the quote-unquote 24 hour one and it could cross from 48 to 49 to 50 to 51 It could be four episodes to make the 24 hour I don't know that would seem really weird It would be weird I I think it should be I think we should have 50 be the 24 hour EFAP In that case we can have the anniversary EFAP and then a few weeks later would be the 24 hour one. I guess Yeah, absolutely a lot of celebrating to do I guess I think so. What special thing would you do for the anniversary EFAP? Uh, you're our manager. Tell us Yeah, manager Have every guest you've ever had on return Yeah, absolutely. We'll just cycle them in and out. Well, no because we got to do that for 24 hour one. Yeah, I was gonna say that's the plan for 24 so I'll put for that. I'll probably just open a giant fucking twitter Like group and just have the invite for everybody and be like don't join if there's already a lot of people We might have to rely on the discretion For the anniversary of EFAP Cover the first episode of EFAP That's interesting. I don't know that that would be weird. We would just be watching us. I don't know It'll be so confusing for the audience because it'll be your voices coming to your voice We had to get the same profile pictures and everything All of us have changed then we've all evolved since then Oh, man, I used to be such a shit critic back then but now evolved. I'm super critic We'll we'll do something. We got to think about it. What what what is it the thing that needs to be done? Uh, which episode nine actors bathwater has the most herpes Oh, uh, definitely, uh, definitely trans Who's trans? Because Kylie Marie Tran Oh, Kelly Marie Tran Kylie Kelly Maria Kylie Marie trans Kylie Marie trans Oh, no. No, I said trans is in tran and apostrophe s possessive trans bathwater. Oh Yeah, I follow now Hey, that was a good payoff for the setup earlier I messed up on the kylo Kylie kai curry thing. I didn't know her first name because I just don't care about her They're really any capacity track. Yeah Fat Asian bitch Oh, that's too far Sorry, I just don't like the mcu in general. I felt it's too far removed from the source material for my takes However, I am glad others have fun Fair enough Hi there rags Hey, hi, how are you? Have my money. Also, did you guys see quintons vid kissing contra points? But All that for some kuchi. That's dedication I actually I did watch it. It's a very strange video He's um, I don't know if he's like trolling but he seems to think that She's like the be all and end all of youtube creators. I was like, okay, it's very odd I don't know if I trust people who say that I'm not a nazi is what a nazi would say Yeah, I Takes like that bullshit out of me. It's what anyone would say What a human being would say It's like I'm not a murderer. That is something a murderer would say that's something a murderer would say Like fucking brilliant commentary contra what has quinton done to his appearance Yes, what hasn't he done? Like he looks different, but I can't tell it. It's like exactly why he gained weight I'm gonna I'm gonna assume it's gained weight glasses of difference. His glasses are different and his beard is different, but like I don't know if that's it, but he's he's confusing me Yeah Visually is a confusing person Jay died of the big gay in my meme. How is he here? Well Your meme perhaps it was a prophecy. Yeah, so I was I'm like root So, uh, like a finger of me survived and the finger was planted. I don't know why I'm not like that apart I I grew from a trimming Ah Grew from a trimming You know that is that is the visual effect it often has so that's fair enough John Connor dead james bond getting me toed moulin looks dumb lion king is horrifying What a terrible year for movies in this cursed timeline But what a great year for e-faps game was this year It was this year. Yeah, you're right But we got Godzilla king of the monsters Now what else was this year? John wick three John wick three king of the monster I've seen that I didn't like the first one and people say that one's the best one So I haven't oh man, you didn't like the first one. Wow. Wow really? No, I thought it was boring. You're boring You're supposed to dislike the second one. Not the first one. Jay. You got it all wrong And now I wait Marvel came out Oh, oh, yeah, it seems like so Shazam was all right. It's pronounced shazam Shazam Shazam, I remember I didn't show them Wouldn't she isn't hasn't told me I would just hollywood hate red heads. Oh, why does they hate red heads? I don't know. I like red heads. I approve Everybody should have a red head statistically red heads are the are generally found to be the least attractive male, I don't know possibly To me adaptations are like historical accuracy. It doesn't have to be one for one But if it doesn't capture the spirit it can be disrespectful thoughts rags The spirit is okay. I'm fine with the spirit, but even with everything I've heard. I don't think that Like spider-man homecoming betrays the spirit of spider-man Also, I'm not sure that that's comparable like adaptation to historical accuracy. What about alt history? Could I say alt history is the thing that an adaptation is like alt adaptation or alt source Added us or an adaptation is I don't know Yeah, what point do you draw the distinction between just adapting it differently and saying it's alternate So I don't know it's weird the example of two buses full of kids It's kind of funny argument more since that was sort of what happened in the dark night Yeah, kind of the thing is the choice wasn't batman's. It was the people's I get you You guys are a lot smarter than I am, but I'm glad that I'm able to watch these streams The through molar I found world-class bullshers and rags and wolf then e-fab has introduced me to a wealth of other great content creators Thanks a bunch. No problemo Hooray, no, we're not that smart. Well, I am but no, yeah You just kind of just learn absorb it all, you know Make gab be kind and consistent and wise Make gab slash mines accounts. Have you got either of those rags? I do have a gab account. I need to use it. I don't even think about it I just don't even think about social media I mean, like I said, I only typically use twitter to keep track of stuff not it's not something I would do for enjoyment Like it's not like I would like yeah, I like to spend time on this site. It's like no No, twitter is awful Twitter has made humanity worse I think the problem is the mcu has nerfed all of the heroes except carol to make them all more human Spider-man is literally the strongest in the comics. Is he I didn't know I thought Thor was the strongest in the comics. Is he stronger than Thor? Is he stronger than carol? I know he's strong, but um See see what chat says I thought it was Thor who was supposed to be the strongest in the comics I honestly don't even know Spider-man is a god. He's really strong Apparently hulk is the strongest maybe Spider-man spider-sense is pretty okay. Spider-man is stronger than hulk Spider-man is not the strongest. Thor is literally a god. No, he's not Spider-man was nerfed in the mcu Hulk Spider-god hulk is strongest No one's ever really done. Okay um I like the new spider-man, but I Think no one cares what I think lol the argument is it would be better if parts of the comics were in it I'll just go and read the comics and it can be something I can else I can enjoy um I I wouldn't even say no to that. It's like yeah, maybe But there's probably parts of the comics that could be improved too, right? And then this is not really relevant to the concept of adaptation at that point It's just a matter of yeah, the writing could be improved quickly I was here two hours ago and you beautiful massives are still live Yes Yeah, boy. Why are you talking about spooderman phase four's coming out Your opinion what you two give me a free super chat. So hi rags Hello, hi. Thanks for giving me your free super chat It's kind of like when some say that Final Fantasy 7 Uh remastered will be bad if it doesn't have turn based combat if I want to play a turn based ff7. I'll play the original Oh, yeah, this is this is where it gets very it's like It's hard to draw rules all over these things If you were to have I guess let's get into the conversation about the difference between remasters remakes and I guess is there an adaptation version of video games? Yeah, I guess is when you make like movies out of them and stuff And typically the adaptations of video games into movies are like horrifically bad But they're typically pretty bad regardless of the source material But you don't need to argue that the doom movie isn't like doom and that's why it's bad It's just terrible It's awful and everyone should see it. Yes. Yes Uh, which actors are you most interested in meeting that you haven't met yet? Amelia Clark and Mark Hamill Yeah, that'll be one By the way, I met Jamie sirio gillian brawn actors yesterday. Awesome. Uh I'd be interested in being a lot of people. I'd like to meet charles dance I want to see if he's like as in as impactful in person as he is when he's playing his characters Talk to his panel shows a lot, right? Oh, yeah, I've seen him on um What's the would I lie to you is it or yeah, would I lie to you? He's great on that. Yeah, he was funny as well He makes such a show actually entertaining They throw in fucking shade Oh boy, um rlm just uploaded thin very quickly rlm just uploaded a star wars episode nine predictions video and mike thinks it's going to be like a full-on time travel story To retcon hence the episode four medal anakin's lightsaber and palpatine plus falcon has old radar dish I would be surprised but anything's possible Yeah, that's possible. Maybe they can use their accidental fuck ups as a way to Put time travel in but then if they do time travel after in-game this time travel people will be like, oh Would they though if it means that they undo tfa and tlg Like well, yeah Dude, oh, yeah They'd piss off pretty much anybody they've got left in their fan base I cut I wouldn't I want to see patrick willams annoyed about that I can't believe they went back on every amazing thing that they didn't start Brave And now it's cowardly a week Replaying some games to 100% them right now and it's turned out to be a great way of learning Just how bad a game really is used to love the arkham games for example But now I want the designers to be shoved off a rooftop. Why'd you keep shoving people off rooftops, rah? You're gonna stack up the bodies and eventually they won't actually die. They'll just fall down this little stack They'll be like, oh, you see me. You see me using the one rooftop Even if he's using multiple ones if he keeps doing this you'll fill them all All the buildings Green new deal What do you mean jay? That's just a matter of not trying hard enough Every building. Yeah, you know about that. You know about not trying hard enough jay as our manager How dare you Uh each iteration of the multi-verse is designated a number mcu being earth 1999 99 took me a few movies until I accepted that the movies can't follow earth 616 main comic storyline Well, they can I mean, I don't know what he means by can't if you if he's referring to the fact that once they get so far They can't possibly be it anymore. Or is he saying? I guess this is clearly contradictory information. It wouldn't have like, um, there wouldn't be anything wrong with it. I guess but Uh, the emperor throws ray down a crevice into the planet's core. That's my ideal scenario for episode I would fucking clap Actually, like we did it Palpatine will be redeemed by killing ray Love that scenario Hey mollus still finishing your dark souls 2 10 pot series in the background while I play dark souls 2 scholar first sin Epic job on that one for dunking on harris. I hope it makes that game more enjoyable sir because I don't want to have to return to it ever again Based on what I saw the video. I don't even want to play it. It's I wouldn't recommend it This but I think I say at the end of my video if you're a dark souls fad and you're just curious Like you just want to play all the games like just go for it, but oof I think bob a fat will be the most consistent in episode nine Inconsistent in episode nine j loved you in the eric taxon and jack e-fap seemed pissed Yeah, that was you you were the that was the meanest you'd ever been I think Have weren't you? Yes, I think so I don't normally get mean No, you're a nice man. It's It's right to the end of buddy. Perhaps so they haven't seen it They didn't or they haven't covered it. I don't know if they've watched that far or not, but they didn't uh On this dream. I was like I was waiting for them to get to the the real like Oof moments and then this just stops and I was like, oh Damn They'll never know the true disappointed or relieved but Uh, I meant the one where he flies in saying business is good Oh, uh Well, so that takes place right after the um The opening scene with with him at avengers tower collecting the thing and it's just to tell us what he did over those eight years that passed Like here he is. This is his team. They're building the shit out of the uh alien tech combining with earth They're boxing it That's being sold and then we're like, so how are they getting all this shit? And then he flies in with his suit and we're like, oh He drops the things and he's like business good Like yep, I understand how this works Um, I guess your argument is your argument that we didn't need that and that we would have grasped it from seeing him at any other point in the movie anyway Because uh, I think it makes a good base for understanding Where he's at in the film so that once we return to him Easier to follow doesn't take a lot of time either. Yeah, it's pretty quick And I find it a very impactful scene because you're like, holy fuck. Look at that that suit And then you've got this whole operation and it's like Yeah, I'd uh That eight years was spent well Will marvel still get cameos for holland spidey? Uh I don't know actually that's a good question. I don't know if the mcu gets access to tom holland Or if I had they don't Uh, love the sex love the sex slave suits in far from home What oh no, I really want to see it Uh I got that same comment. I got that same comment and I was really confused I swear I've heard that before Continuity doesn't equal adaptation. Does that apply to a prequel? Let's say like solo or the hobbit Also, they're in continuity Like the reason they call it a prequel instead of Let's say referring to the original as the sequel of the prequel like I mean is because the prequel is Technically a sequel in that it's a piece of the story that comes after the one in terms of our continuity of how time is linear But it takes place before so it has to be classified differently, but it's still in continuity That's why you've got to be really careful with prequel stories Compared to sequel ones because sequel ones are usually much more free to explore while prequel ones a lot of things are locked in Like certain events have to occur So a lot of payoffs can be established events yet or yeah while events can be anything in a sequel so um, but yeah, uh You know like a solo film is fucking Crap and we didn't need it and didn't want it And yet it is canon and it is a part of the ot now or if you only consider the ot the only canon like you know depends on how you define how canon is uh how canon is defined Uh, have they heard of arch he asks he's clearly not watched the rp streams by the way rags still coming for days boy puss for hoes Does that make any sense to you Day boy puss. I don't know if that's referencing your rp streams with arch I don't actually know what that is referring to now. All right, then Continued I found it by the way. I found uh, it was on uh I found a comment that said love the sex slave suits And it was left on the stream. I did with fringy and other people talking about it Far from home Hmm Yay, congratulations for coming out of the closet very brave of you Thank you. It was very difficult I was like I feel to be straight now Um, weird and really boring Oh being in the closet ain't boring J is effaps nick fury Who would you cast to play live action admiral thrallon? Well, I was talking was going to be matt smith. Wasn't that blue charles dance? Charles dance too old for thrallon. I don't know Do we know that that's not who matt smith is playing? I don't honestly. I don't know what's going to happen. I remember reading some way that apparently matt smith isn't as involved in the film as people thought The degree that he's like not even I don't know Isn't as involved in the film as people thought the degree that he's like not even Seable in it or some shit Oh, but we'll see we'll see The first thing that comes up when you search matt smith is matt smith emperor palpatine Yes, could you imagine? Benedict cabbage patch, uh, please finish the stream so I can watch rlm's video We're all gonna do that as soon as the stream's over. We're we're trying Rad and grand admiral dawn. I mean I can see it Let's take the time to appreciate how the new little mermaid actresses eyes are just a little bit too far apart I have been told that Uh high rag Hello True fact 90 percent of people's of people. Sorry 90 percent of people of herpes, but only certain people show symptoms So 90 percent of people have herpes is always saying people have herpes. I don't know that's true I don't think I have herpes rags. What is your favorite best of the worst episode? Um That's tough That is tough Surviving edged weapons is really good Um, I really like creme lasar There's a lot of that's the thing is a lot of good ones There's a lot of good ones. I rewatch them often I've Generally, they're halloween ones are good that one with a yeah the halloween will really get really drunk I love that bit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah What it just it just cuts to jay looking at rich. He goes, why is rich freaking out? And rich is like sitting there Rich is a hollywood star. He doesn't drink red letter media posted episode nine predictions spoilers time travel Looking forward to it rags and co thoughts on yms I keep hearing you guys mention him briefly but never get to hear anyone going on any in any depth I used to really like him And now his videos are just Um, yeah, irem my favorite stuff from yms is his coverage of the walk in dead After-earth Um, synecdoche new york, I believe that's how you pronounce that and um The old boy video was really good too Um, but yeah, the majority of stuff these days is a quick thoughts on a movie He's seen and you might be like well, what's wrong with that? And I'll be like i'll tell you what's wrong with that When you can literally change the title of the movie He's talking about and nothing else in the video and it stays the same as every other one It gets a little bit tiresome. That's all I get bored of hearing about how a movie is boring and his acting is not very good CGI was okay That design could have been better But overall the plot was all right and the characters were you just get all these like sort of casual statements and you're just like, okay You don't Um, all I get from the video is a big thumbs up thumbs down or thumbs middle I guess and that would be the short version and I could just settle for that But I never really came to his videos to know whether or not he liked a thing. I love the way he breaks stuff down Whether or not he liked it was never hugely relevant, uh, and that's not supposed to be some kind of insult I actually really like his work and I think the the value is that he used to get a lot of information out of stuff But he watches a shit ton of movies so um He's got a lot of work to do and uh, this is the kind of format he wants to run with for now, so There we are Hopefully that answers that when is tfa part three, please. I need more content to stave off my depression. It's on the way But my god, I'm not gonna give a prediction of when because it'll be wrong It's like a card. It'll be it'll be a bad man. Bad. I can't do it Uh, could rey be shimmy skywalk? Why would how Superior spider man is best spider man. I don't know what superior spider man I mean, I agree that superior spider man is best spider man. The better one is the better one I agree This is a question for everybody. What is your favorite type of hentai? um Let me see So I don't actually watch hentai. I'm not into hentai actually Uh, but I kept it here and there So I like All right, I'll tell you what I don't like. I don't like really unrealistic proportions, especially on the female breasts I think that Extremely large movies are like really weird and I can't I can't get into that I like We're talking about hentai Oh, and I was I was saying that I like realistic proportions in my hentai And I don't like extremely large breasts in extremely tiny waist. It's just it's really a turnoff for me It's too weird I like if I can't see myself fucking them, then it's just like uh doesn't work What do you think jay? Oh There we go Morela you fiend have I not been good to you? This will not go unforgiven now my friend who respects you won't stop harassing me with gross hentai Well, that was a relevant stupid chat considering the previous one Yeah, I tend to omit some spidey comics because it seems some authors are dealing with personal issues through their writing Spidey rain number one One more day emphasized this okay Uh actually found efab through toro's video watched rags video because toro's felt lacking in context I liked it then I found morela etc My first thought after watching rags's video was huh that quintan guys full of it. Love you all rags is a good boy Mm-hmm. Thank you. I agree that uh that video was very it needed a lot of context and had very little That's actually and they were just straight up lies about the shit We said one of the very few videos that we never finished You know like efab's not known for that. You never finished it. We got I'd have to check the void But we got I think we had like another seven minutes left and we we just ran out of fucking steam I'm pretty sure that's what happened We got to like 24 hour efab I mean we could watch the rest of it as a sort of throwback in the 24 hour efab Just to be like hey rags remember this shit Just see what else they say Yeah, I remember that genuine genuine suggestion for the the anniversary one by the way it would be to have All of the most regular guests back on Oh, wow, that's what a what a strange suggestion. What do you what do you mean by all the most regular guests you mean? Well, I'm he needs him How dare you That would be fringy me and uh, yeah, see Alex I guess we you fringy Alex and das bolster, right? I think they're the they the the most regular out of everybody Think das bolster according to efab. What me has only been on three times and there's a lot of people looking on three I like how that's like the cannons. Well, we don't know if it's been updated In fairness, I don't think that's been on since the last time updated, uh, it's got efab 41 up there Yeah, the other thing though is that um Both fringy and Alex's free time is very like it's it's complicated. Um, well, that's true They're not like you. They're not written poorly. So they just turn up all the time You got to fix that shit jay otherwise people won't believe you're real Jay is actually me. I'm just lip syncing really well. We just how I can even interrupt myself I hope they have rags on as a guest with a 24 hour effort explanation is there Uh, the antifa guy fire bombed an ice building Yeah, I heard about that. I haven't watched any videos on it because I just woke up and efapt But yeah, then I'm an antifa guy firebombs and ice hq or whatever like burned up a car and they shot and killed him Because he's a terrorist Oh, well Um, I can't wait to hear more about that who defends it Yeah, I know the that's pretty aggressive. Well, you saw the whole thing with the uh The the the guy who got yeah, yeah So you have They're like the the the the thing about hbomber guy for example like making fun of it and then he was like, oh fuck that happened Okay, and they had to drop the memes almost Like yeah, this isn't a good thing that's happening. Don't don't actually hurt them like that. Holy fuck and I just like to think of it as a sort of Partial wake-up call sometimes it's like you can realize like a lot of what you guys Spout out can encourage this in the same way that it how you can argue it happens in reverse Should be done I don't think I don't think they see any I don't I don't know if they would see Milk shake being thrown on anyone is a bad like a proper until you put yeah Unless someone they like Yeah, until you put concrete in there I think you know, it's how you draw your morals I guess like in the in that contra points promotional video that quintin did he he recommends you should hit people who are fascists on the head with an egg And it's the kind of thing we are like There's a lot of things that can happen as a result of that not to mention you endanger the shit other person Who does that if the person has security? I don't exactly Identify fascists Yeah, we don't live in a world where that's genuine advice being given if you see a fascist hit them with an egg I did this for me. It's like why what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, someone's gonna do that and they're gonna get the shit beat out of them Yeah, and then it'll be like look how fascist this person is being up this person only did was hit with an egg They hit me back when I threw shit at them How evil are they? I contacted Mola to see if I could come on So typically with e-fab guests like we I don't want to um I was talking to wolf about this. I was like imagine we did some form of a if you contact us We'll let you on some kind of like listed thing. I was like, uh, it'll never work. Uh, besides it'll come across as really unfair because I imagine we'd get a lot of requests We'd never be able to get through them and then we'd have to vet people as well to make sure their microphones are like decent for the show and that they wouldn't be mainly silent There's a lot of process to go through so instead Typically when you know, we respond to a video We have a fellow content creator that's very interested in coming on They've got like a whole wealth of videos that we can draw from to see how they're gonna Work as a guest and try and get videos that suit them, etc Um, and that's that's why it's it's really respectful when when we have like a person We've covered come on with like no context and they're able to actually like like the doom guy or sausage man or um No man gaming or or even just right back in the day You know, they don't have any context They're apparently going into a lion's den and they still pull it off as opposed to being invited as a friendly guest But uh, yeah, we don't necessarily have a if you ask to come on you can come on sort of thing going with, um viewers because I don't know how it would work in an efficient and fair way that uh It would be like People need to understand that for calls especially if you have a fairly loquacious bunch of individuals like five is really pushing it You know the fucking six bad one that we had was the thing when you have six You can have it so that it's not a rambling mess But you'll have several people not talking for an extended period of time And at that point it's like why have you brought on six when not everyone can even talk um They're the two extremes you have it so that everyone's fucking talking over each other or It is taking in turns, but someone's like is wolf dead or is j dead Typically, I find that the the best number is four. It seems to be You can make five and six work You should maybe test if 17 works on a celebration stream, but I I don't think Is there a capture this could cause of how many people can be in them? I don't know Good question Probably Silent night deadly night part two for efab movies, please I think I've heard of that Yeah, potentially Alex Jones and Joe Rogan on next efab. Do you understand that we would oh I would like have them on then just say like go and just sit back and listen Thanks for the stream guys. Give j5 goad and split the rest between rags and the long man Very well Hey, what are you going to spend the five geodes on? Uh Officially licensed browser Officially licensed browser officially licensed browser. Yeah Uh Covering efab one means covering jarid. I don't know if that kills the idea I mean, I don't even know Irrelevant of jarid. I was just saying I don't even know how it would work And it seems almost like weirdly vain We're just gonna sit there waiting for us to react to things so we can react to us reacting to you know I mean it feels weird Yeah, we could do it with a super cut of like Weirded a long time too Make it all memes or something save up the memes until the anniversary Have like a theme of nostalgia memes. I don't know Yeah, we could like I could look through the meme archives and take out all our favorites Make it the efab log quiz I mean We need someone to make that don't we is that what you're saying or do you see the 100% making that? Yeah, but we got to make sure Like there's no way that we would need it ahead of Planning for the thing said that I mean people are going to be sending them to you Uh, that's that's definitely going to happen, right? People who don't know that that's not gonna people who don't like john wick seem to not like the buy the numbers gunfights Oh, I mean jay said it was boring No, I just I just found it interesting The action was cool, but there wasn't enough like for me to grab on to there with character Yano Reeves is the barbiega who in the folklore sneaks into people's houses at night and counts their spoons Also neo who says there is no spoon Oh What that makes complete sense if you don't understand it you're a massive I don't know how many spoons I have I know in the last time my spoon was But I don't know how many spoons I have Ginger is an anagram for n-word change my mind That's a fact I found you guys through rag is keep up the good stuff praise be the dawn. Yay. Okay What I'm saying is if the source material is good go read the source material if the new stuff is well written and works Why is it a problem? Because it's not because it's not like the comic that I like what you'll Find is they'll ask the question well then why adapt it in the first place And then I suppose you could make arguments for how it's false advertising It's like hey fans of this come check out this like but this isn't this And uh-huh you came and saw it lol Always a risk you take with an adaptation. It's not false advertising because you expect there will be something different It's not gonna be a I don't know about that It's not going to be a panel for panel didn't someone say there's always a risk when you buy a game that it'll be bad Oh, yeah, there is a risk when you buy a game No, no, so what I'm referring to is if a game has the ad is advertised as let's just say great graphics Then it turns out to not have it. It's like well you took that risk when you bought it Well, no because that's like that's specifically Saying like giving a measure of quality Whereas if an adaptation has okay, what if the game says it has a 20 hour campaign and it's a 10 hour Well, that's that's a specifically like factual thing if it's just being advertised as this is a game It's about this and it's about that but it's not about that and the way you wanted it to be So like let's say you buy a world war two game and all it had been advertised as it's like Oh, it's a world war two game And then it's mostly about like the conflict in japan and you're like oh, I was hoping for more german stuff then that's not A false advertising Interesting My brain is interested. Yeah, that one would be fine because not all world war two is in the in europe Uh In the comics there are characters way stronger than the ones we've seen in the mcu But it's hard to say who's the strongest adam warlock is high up I've I've got one Doctor who is a great example. There were two reboots of it What they were both really different from the original show One everyone hated and one everyone loved but they were both really different from the original And the one everyone loved is still going today and now it's really shit You still planning to make a video for that Oh, yeah, that's coming. That's that's like my big project That's probably gonna be several hours of content me Long man massive I'm missing most of this watching shazam. It's funny so far No The final fantasy seven example is just an old thing had this new thing therefore does uh, doesn't therefore bad Wasn't trying to go into the classifications of different media. I hope this helps a bit more sorry. I didn't explain it No, it's all right. It's like we did Like I said, uh, it depends. I would I would be like how is it classified because if you like remake a game What does a remake entail and what do you have to pay attention to if you? want to What would be the equivalent of Let's say I took I was gonna say so. Oh, well, actually, what is that considered? That a remake I think what was the original? I guess it's that's a remake is what it's considered But they changed the entire like camera combat perspective, which is a huge deal but it was still the characters in the places and They it was it was close enough to where it was basically a retelling of the same things Yeah, I think I think I'm just getting caught up on what I think a remake is and I'm like I'm pretty sure that's what I think a remake is Maybe Jay I just say your new vid I can't believe some of high tops criticisms far from home is probably my favorite spider-man movie for Mysterio alone Take my dollar j Oh, thank You know after paypal takes their cut. I don't worry about that I find it funny to cover that as well Well, this is the thing youtube take 40% as far as I'm aware of uh, shit So no 30 youtube takes 30% So you got 70 cents and then paypal might have a Small transaction fee That's why I don't I believe you you might not even get I mean fuck why bother Just keep it smaller I got it. I'll pass it along. I actually pass along the values that they intend because it's uh It's only it's so every So every time someone does that you lose money Yes, but It's it's fine because I mean I've got a lot of other super chats. So it's definitely going to fill the gaps. It's okay see every every um Every e-fap one of the super chats is designated as the recuperation super chat that makes up for the Transaction fees of all the other super chats. It's very it's complicated business. People start to say like this is for for j This is the recuperation for j Just like fucking shit tons Whenever you send super chats that are recoup fees make sure you label them Label them clearly for the person. You know, that's gonna happen now You may have made a meme there rags. I don't know You know what anybody you know what anybody to get screwed over I find it funny that brie larson is calling for lgbt representation in the marvel universe when she is playing One and she seemingly doesn't know I think her point is if she wants more, right? Not just I think she does Wait, she lgbt is lesbian gay trans Queer no lesbian gay bisexual trans Queer so she's not any of those you call them here. She's not any of those, right? Questioning I'm I'm question. Yeah, I question a lot of these people Like is what is she supposed to be what I was gonna say like I don't think captain marvel's the big gay is she She could be like, I don't know She didn't had vibes with whatever that other woman was I guess yeah, I guess maybe she wasn't gay Like she uh, she emoted more than she emoted with most people with her Uh Superior spider-man is an arc in the comics where dark arc steals peter's body and becomes authoritarian extremely effective at stopping crime spider-man Oh my interesting You should read metamorphosis great hentai Okay, new zealand psycho with israel ties shows up mosque Facebook and congress go crazy trans kids shoots up school bernie fans shoot up dozens of g.o.p congressman Plats Antifa use mall Jesus Yeah, there's some super I obviously it's not bernie sanders fault But um, which is where we would differ from fucking crazy lefties But yeah, some crazy bernie sanders fans shot up senators like Baseball practice session that happened a few years back and he got hit a couple times and almost died I forget the guy's name though is is years back Yay people How about you just don't go around and don't shoot people. I I like I like the whole don't shoot people thing Go to stick with that I am being blocked in chat for calling anti for a domestic terrorist organization. Well, apparently they didn't block it in the super chat But uh, well, yeah, if you pay youtube money, it's fine You too. It's like, hmm. I guess I'll let that slide if you'll let it pass. How about a bribe? um The uh, domestic terrorist organization And then I think we actually have Uh, three recoups In super chats and then we've reached the end. Oh, yeah, I actually do So, yeah, just to make okay, so there's a couple of memes Go ahead and wrap Wrap them. I gotta check my twitter as well to see if I've missed Which of I will absolutely have missed always more This Okay. Yeah. Anyway Is this watched together? No, they're uh five images Oh, there was a video that I got linked, but I'll save it for wolf in case it has wolf references I will also remove The other gentlemen's we don't bring them with things they may not get. Um Okay This is um Movie bob's episode nine, I guess The nazi's gay eugenics a bad rap you're doing great That's uh movie bob is evil that fucking picture of movie bob as well Oh my god, uh, you're gonna even This is like a deep fried meme Well, then movie bob won because he's fat. Oh, I get it This is apologize for this slib mohler. Thanks Harris is a fog hat. Yeah, I um a lot of people posted that on twitter who like very anti me as like Evidence of me being a naughty person um, so that's in my ds2 series and uh, there was a stream Where I was naming my character and I literally say like, oh, it'll be a really funny easter egg If people look at the name of the character when I'm loading it It'll say harris is a fog at um Yeah, because I thought it would be funny. Uh, this was back before I realized that using these words upsets people to a massive degree Um a massive degree. So I thought it was how you said it. I know. I'm sorry. I'd use another slib Um now jay said it. He's a manager. You're supposed to know better But uh, yeah, you won't catch me apologizing because I've had this conversation fucking joseph addison for like a day Not how apologies work For me apologies have to mean a lot I don't I'm not going to apologize for taking an action that's supposed to make people laugh Like telling a joke when someone said that they were upset by it Because by that logic, we're all going to be um apologizing all day long for lots of actions and things we do And that was a that was something that was informed by conversation with tabo button Like I think I told you guys about it, but I was just like what if People turned around on you and said toilet is an offensive word because it refers to actions We take in private or something like that Stop saying toilet at any point or lou or restroom. These words are offensive. You're like, uh No Because you know, it depends on where you draw the light. I suppose So interestingly though, if the entire world like including all of your friends and family had that viewpoint It probably would get drawn out of you eventually you probably stop using it just because of the The reactions you keep getting from people Well, if everyone took massive offense when you said toilet, there would be no reason to say Yeah, it essentially changes the method of communication. It's no longer a valid or useful thing if you don't even say anymore Yeah, and so that's when you have two conflicting large audiences One that reacts with laughter when you use a word and the other that Reacts in anger and Disgust and then you have one guy saying so which which which one, you know, do you use it or do you not you're like, um I don't know. That seems kind of complicated. And I think the argument they would make it's like, well Sacrifice those people's laughs for those people's disgust as in don't use it find a different way to make all of them It stifles Anyway, I think this is a reference to be saying that um, is the breathing life into star wars or of a review You know what? I still find this amusing Cry I like that the word massive is officially ruined Massive is not ruined. It's been improved That's true And then we got the beowin meme which If people don't quite get it, you've got neurotic a spider man against me as iron man with Jeff and rags in the background just having to chill out and watching I see I see evap civil war I like that a lot like the neurotics beard is uh, visible behind the mass Very cool Very clever Very cool Yeah, that's about draws us to a wonderful clothes for evap number 43. I don't wear clothes That's disgusting Um, it's thank you everybody for uh for watching. I hope you enjoyed it This has been heavily requested the whole homegumming debate and I know So there's gonna people who are like damn it. They not only fucked up the debate They've wasted it. They should have blah blah blah There's gonna be a lot of like people who are upset with how we did it. I I don't know I just we brought on people who I think perfectly represent the comic favoring side of the argument while we talked about what we value about the film From the film's Specifically the film point of view and I think that the sides have been represented not necessarily a conclusion has been reached I I think that one could say there was a conclusion that the film isn't necessarily badly written It's just not spider man and then there's a discussion to be had about the semantic Value of what makes spider man spider man. I don't know Either way, hopefully it clears some stuff up and that people got something of what they enjoyed Out of it of what I don't know what they were expecting. Well, there'll be more spider man discussion next episode We talk about far from home finally and uh We'll explore its strengths and weaknesses while finally covering high top. I'm actually looking forward to you seeing that Right, so it'll probably explode your brain. You're gonna love it Had top um But yes, uh, thank you for the donations at the wonderful bebes Other than that. Is there anything uh, you guys wanted to want to say Talk about anything. I don't know gosh, um, no I think I'm I think I'm all Uh out worded right now because I I need to eat because I haven't eaten yet. I had some chips earlier. That's about it I'm finishing up old chips. I don't need chips anymore. Huh Massive geodes Bring on Shall we lean from your server? That is the uh new super chat. That's someone who's regularly arguing in the discord against um homecoming We brought on two of what a very representative I don't know takes on on They were like highly requested and both very much representative audiences that don't like homecoming as nerd roddick said his his chat And jeffs are usually filled with people who are Very much don't like it. So I figured that they were some of the stronger takes I'm on against it and it's not to say that we'll never talk about homecoming again, but I'm hoping this is sort of Satisfied some people to sub degree. I don't know um either way just before I go. I guess I'll post that uh That poll again if you're interested in having a look at it And then maybe if I can figure out how to get the old one will have a comparison, but um Yeah, thanks for watching everybody Uh, why are you guys talking about spider-man crawl is out the fuck is crawl Always crawl either way. That's the end of the stream. Goodbye everybody Oh jade say bye