 All right. Oh, sorry. That's okay. They missed my performance. So next we have to approve the minutes. I was not here last week. So I will. I will defer to other people to make motions. I'm happy to move that we approve the minutes as presented. Do we have a second? I'll second that. All in favor. Hi. And are you abstaining because you weren't here, Jim? Because you can vote for that. Okay. Yeah, I feel weird since I have no basis to judge it on. Okay, no worries. Yeah. So if there are. I take it in that there are no changes or corrections that need to be amended. Okay. So we are now already on to item six public invited to be heard. So we're now going to open it up to the public invited to be heard. Each person wishing to speak will be unmuted and will speak one at your turn to speak. Please state your name and address for the record. You'll have three minutes for your comment and I will be timing you and I will tell you when you're three minutes. We have at least one person. I believe we do have one with us today. It's still Kelly. So give me one moment. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm sending you under separate cover and email with some items to your urgent attention to do with the possibility of ceding our national sovereignty to the WHO and which also have a potential direct EMF consequence to them with the possibility. Of increased surveillance infrastructure worldwide, which of course includes smart meters and wireless infrastructure as part of the grid for such an activity. Heather will forward these items to you. I asked you to review them post haste and then act swiftly. Meanwhile, my husband and I drove to American furniture warehouse yesterday and along the way I was measuring the radio frequency readings along along 119 with an RF meter, the safe and sound pro two to see what readings we would get. As councilwoman Martin have remarked in the March meeting, we have a substantial load of electro smog already in our environment. And I was appalled at what my meter showed me, especially across from the sugar mill and steam project area where new apartment constructions on the south side of 119. Had a relatively off the chart reading of danger will Robinson blinking red lights. We know that adding smart meters everywhere into this mix only makes things worse, but that decision appears at this moment at least to be fixed in the attitude of the smart meters will save us. I still do not know the how of this and I'm well I'm still waiting for someone to publish the research of how smart meters will get us to 100% energy independence by 2030. I had an impromptu conversation with Joan Peck on Earth Day where I acknowledged to her the great work of climate scientists, Detlef Helmick in quantifying the methane leakage near Union reservoir that affected air quality in Longmont. I suggested to her that Longmont has a perfect opportunity to serve its residents and measuring similarly the levels of the existing background wireless radiation in a before and after manner in the south Longmont smart meter test zone area and also supervised by an independent epidemiologist or other medical researcher or professional doing before and after EMF health surveys of residents both in the test zone area as well as one or more similar control areas that are not receiving the meters up front. I will be sending you more information on the potential health survey as it is provided to me by someone working on this including the purpose of the health survey should not be made public as to not influence the participants. It's obvious this would be a way of quantifying the health effects of the meters on residents and renowned EMF researcher and Swedish neuroscientist Ole Johansson formerly of Karolinska Institute directly told me he thought these were very good ideas and Mayor Peck agreed. I will leave it to you to take appropriate action on these proposals and thank you for your time. Look for my emails. Thank you. I was right on the nose with three minutes. We appreciate your comments and be glad to look over the materials that you send us. So thank you for that. Thank you. Heather, do we have anybody else who is going to be? That's the only one for today. Okay. Well, we will move on then. Agenda revisions and submission of documents. Do the city staff have anything that they would like to bring up or add to our agenda? I don't know any of any. Lisa, do you have any? Nope. All right. Okay, I will take that as a note. So we'll move on to general business. And I'd just like to remind the board members that we, you know, we have a lot of information. We have a lot of information that we're going to try to get through. So if we could try to save our questions until the end of each presentation that are two presentations scheduled today. So at the end of each one, we can try to save our questions until then if possible. We're going to be starting with a building electric. Electric. Electricity. Electrification update, there we go. A pronouncing words update with Susan. Thank you. And it's, it's funny, you should struggle with that because I do on a regular basis. So I'm Susan Bartlett I'm with my power and communications I'm the staff lead for our building electrification planning and thank you for giving me some more time. Real gracious with allowing me to come and talk about this before and just want to let you know where we are in the process and So we can go to the next slide header. So I know you've seen a version of this timeline before but the good news is we're getting close to wrapping up the planning process. And, you know, the first steps were kind of understanding where we are. So what what the market is what our building stock looks like What the available technologies are some some relative costs and you can imagine that's kind of a moving target these days. But what the potential benefits can be to the community, as well as some of the challenges and the equity implications that we need to consider in our planning. Most recently, our advisory committee has been working to provide guidance and some grounding and inputs on what the challenges and the potential solutions can be They've also helped us to vet a series of strategies that we could implement to shift away from fossil fuels in Buildings and we're going to meet again on Monday with our advisory group to kind of go through some of the details of the strategies that have floated to the top is is ones that you know we want to work on and start with We've also been pretty proactive and engaging stakeholders along the way and we've of course engaged with this board and with the equitable climate action team. With the long line sustainability coalition and also just some focus groups in areas that we felt might be particularly impacted by electrification. And then we have regional partners on our advisory team, but we've also kind of engaged with them at in different points in our planning. Because this is a this is a national topic, not just a regional topic, but we want to make sure that if there are things happening. In Boulder County in Lerner County in Denver that we can either learn from or or things that we can work on with others that seems to make the most sense for us right now. So we're trying to Kind of keep those conversations moving and right now we're in the thick of kind of building out these strategies that we want to To implement and we're also aligning some some modeling that our consulting team has done for us relative to greenhouse gases and what you know what we can't what we think we can accomplish. For emissions reductions based on the the strategies that we select and the level of adoption or You know code compliance and that kind of thing and we're we're truing that up with some of the greenhouse gas inventory modeling that Lisa and Francie are doing to make sure that our numbers make sense and that we're additive with what we're doing with beneficial electrification. And we're hoping to go over some of that on Monday as well. We want to get their feedback on our timeline that we've kind of laid out for the strategies also some potential implementation costs and and get their feedback on what we think those impacts are going to be next slide. Actually, you might go back again Heather. One of the things that I wanted to share with this group is is that There are some things that we haven't started working on yet, but other things that we have. And one of the things that we have started to work on is just raising awareness about building a location and we're taking advantage of opportunities to be able to talk about it. We participated at birthday with the city. Other city representatives that we're talking about the waste resolution and bicycling and things like that. And we're just we're trying to get out in the community when the opportunity arises to say, Hey, do you even know what this is and what kind of equipment do you have in your house. You know, do you understand the terminology and what we're hearing is no nobody understands the terminology and it's a mouthful. And so we're starting to socialize an umbrella phrase take charge long line, which you'll see in the timeline up here just to open the conversation around Shifting away from fossil fuels, not only in buildings but also with transportation so you know something that we can we can put initiatives kind of under that umbrella term. And I would love your input on this phrase and if you think it works for that purpose. So, you know, feel free to share your thoughts we have a place for you to vote and then offer comment on our engaged long line page. There's a QR code at the end of the presentation so if you haven't been to the engaged long line page. Please do check it out and let us know what you think of this phrase. And then finally I wanted to let you know that we don't have a final plan yet but we're close. And we'll send that to you likely in July before we take it to council. And what I hope is that, you know, we'll get some feedback from you today and if you think there are gaps that we should be addressing in our strategies. But also, we would appreciate any, you know, a letter of support from you saying that, yeah, we want to start implementing some of these activities that that would be helpful to us with council. All right, now we can go to the next slide. So this is a list kind of a high level list of our strategies that we've identified so far that we're going to talk about on Monday with our committee. And so it's just a really brief name what we think the potential timeline would be for when we can get started or how long it's going to take. And then that category we tried to group things like what's what's a policy initiative what's a program that we need to develop what's something that we need to develop partnerships in order to implement. And then, you know, what are some financing initiatives that we can look at to help us accomplish some of the work ahead. And so I, I'll step through these and let me know if you have questions and we can stop but one of the things that's kind of cross cutting is having some equitable housing policy language because we know that, you know, anytime you make improvements. To buildings. That's going to raise cost for those who are occupying those buildings. And what we want to incorporate is language that says if we provide some resources for you as a building owner to make these upgrades. And you're not necessarily going to reflect that in raising the rents or, you know, creating hardship for people that are occupying those spaces. So we want to be sure that a lot of these activities that we take on, we're keeping that in mind so we don't create untenable situations for especially folks that that rent their space or their home. And then the, the next item is related to just understanding our electric grid from both a generation and a distribution perspective, and the potential impacts that these increase that the increased load will have, you know, what that means for us. And also, you know how to use our advanced metering infrastructure data. Once we have that coming in to help us know a little bit more about our grid and understand where our vulnerabilities are and how to shift load. You know, a lot of that is on the horizon and that data is going to be really helpful for us to to make our grid more resilient. We're looking at ways to demonstrate not only electrification, but demand response and other distributed energy resources, batteries and whatnot. Those things all kind of tie together as we're looking at our grid out the next 20 or 30 years. And so we want to start working on getting that understanding right away to help inform some of these other initiatives. The next one is existing program collaboration. We're lucky to have really good local partners in our area we have Boulder County. We have Platte River power authority and efficiency works which is the efficiency program administrator for Platte River. And, you know, we have income qualified program administrators that we work with, and those are existing relationships with existing tools in place to reach consumers and customers and we want to be able to leverage those existing programs to include electrification type projects that we want to encourage as well as their contractor networks. The next one is education and outreach and I think this could go at the top. Also, just because it's so important to be talking about what building electrification is and looks like and how it feels in a space and what it means to, you know, for initial cost implications as well as operating cost implications and you know who will be affected affected, but also what those benefits are, you know, in terms of improved health and improved air quality and safety in homes. You know, there, there are just a lot of benefits and we need to be able to have that honest conversation about about what the spectrum of what that means. And because it's not a simple complicated. It's not a simple conversation we we kind of need to start talking about it right away and just keep talking about it to make sure that we're raising awareness and that includes raising awareness with our trades and our contractor pool as well. A lot of times they're the customers first link to any type of new technology equipment in their home and we want them to be on our side. In terms of helping us in the right circumstances put the right equipment in spaces as equipment fails in existing buildings, buildings particularly so there's just a lot of education that needs to happen. The next one. Code adoption. Longman is already very proactive in terms of adopting the latest cycle of building code. We also had was pretty ambitious this year with some amendments for electric or solar ready and EV ready amendments and so we're going to recommend that we continue along that cadence and that pace and also include some additional enhanced projects that would encourage electric electrification and new construction as well as in existing buildings. Then we have affordable housing partnerships and this one is interesting because of our the city's relationship with Longman housing authority that that they're part of our organization and so we have a unique to work with the housing authority and their existing properties not only to improve efficiency, but to work with them as they do major renovations to incorporate efficiency electric equipment could also include pairing solar with that new electric equipment and so it's just it's a great opportunity for us to help our community help income qualified tenants in those spaces to have lower bills and improve the quality of that building stock. The same lines with neighborhood and technical demonstrations. What we're hoping to achieve there is to identify a neighborhood or to where we can make a difference based on the age of the home or the socio economic conditions in the neighborhood and infuse some resources again, kind of starting with efficiency but then also following with some high, high efficiency equipment and using that as a kind of a case study for for how we might be able to do it more broadly in the community and then the technical demonstrations the one that's top of mind is just a demonstration kitchen where we have all electric appliances high efficiency electric appliances and we can show folks in the community what it's like to cook with induction as opposed to resistive gas and you know what the benefits are of something like that. The new market rate and income qualified incentives this sort of moves beyond our existing program collaboration and that we, we will want to create some additive incentives if you will. To support especially those that are in the income qualified populations in our community because these, these changes in existing buildings will be more expensive and we understand that and we don't, we don't want to install new equipment and then realize that it's going to cost them more over time to operate depending on you know the cost of gas versus the cost of electricity. And so being able to identify ways to incentivize the equipment that we'd like people to install but also help overcome some of the barriers related to panel capacity or duct work that's not sized correctly or, you know, even folks that don't have air conditioning that would like to add air conditioning, you know so they can be resilient during during our hot summers. These are all things that we can develop independent of existing programs to to nudge folks that might not otherwise participate to participate. And I think linked there is the financing considerations there are already low interest financing options available in Boulder County and in fact in all of Colorado for energy efficiency and renewable energy projects, we simply need to do a better job of promoting those opportunities and then also look at additional opportunities for for folks that may may not be able to provide, you know, the good FICA score or something can we do something that's still financing to help folks that that need that type of mechanism in order to get some of these projects installed in their homes. Then the last three are a little further out and a little less developed but third party ownership models. There are some that are emerging across the United States and the one that comes to mind, most readily is black power you may have heard a little bit about their work on the East Coast, and this is a model where the organization comes in to usually multifamily properties. That's kind of where their their sweet spot to upgrade equipment and they actually own install and maintain the equipment and then they're able to sell that energy at a rate that's manageable for the tenants in the spaces. And, you know, so there are a variety of different models that are emerging and we just want to learn more about that. And this is one of those areas where we we could have some kind of a regional apartment or regional partnership to draw organizations like that here. And it links to workforce development as well. So just needs a little more development but it's out there building performance standards maybe top of mind in our state because of the building benchmarking that's underway for those buildings that are 50,000 square feet and we want to watch that we want to see what evolves what kinds of standards come out of that and, you know, potentially develop our own building performance standards both for commercial and for residential homes and then the last on the list is equipment bulk purchases. In my mind it's the last on the list because I think we would need to run into a fair share of dollars there are several on here that I think would require dollars outside of our normal budgets and kind of resources that we have available to us. This could be another opportunity for regional partnership where we work with others in Boulder County specifically that want to be able to supplement some of this equipment that we would like to see in buildings. So I realize that's a lot. And I may have skipped some critical information and some of these kind of trying to get through quickly. But I'm wondering, you know, are we, are we missing anything really big here. We can open it up for comments and questions and people first then Adam. Yeah, Susan thanks a lot for the overview. I don't have anything particularly big to suggest but you did mention some technical issues like how the grid load will change and how you want things like battery storage and so I'm wondering is the city delivering bi-directional charging technologies so that we can have EVs help power the grid. I think that's a good question. It's something that we're not prepared prepared to do today but we know is coming. We don't have a lot of good examples of where that's working yet, although we know people are doing it. I think that's part of our understanding our own system better and then kind of watching the landscape and trying some demonstrations and so that was so that we can incorporate things like that into our into our grid because I think it's going to be necessary over time. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. First of all, I can answer Adam's question. A little bit. It's probably several years before, especially since this year with the supply chain disruptions and stuff have been a setback in terms of PRPA moving toward 100% renewable energy or actually there. Jason Frisbe is saying 85% is where they're going to get to by 2030. And the upside of that is that our renewable percentage is not going to be large enough that drawing on EV batteries is going to be really important that you know we're going to have a high enough proportion of dispatchable generation for quite a few years still. And the other the implementation part of it is that you need a distributed energy management system to where every EV owner would have a policy, and that it could discover when the EVs were plugged in and see how the state of the charge matched the policy, and then it could draw on the batteries that are available to it. So all of that, you know needs to be done the selection of the terms. And this is actually something that that is working on with with PRPA because they usually have a group by deal for level two chargers that had communications capability, and they dropped it because they didn't their study was over without thinking that you know maybe EV drivers would still like to have level two charging capability. And we'd like to you know get some communicating charger penetration in there before we start drawing on their batteries. So we're trying to get that program reinstated. And, but anyway, the short answer is it's several years away. I want to remark a data point for you in terms of, of some of the impact studies, and what we're going to communicate about electrification. I had my home energy assessment this morning. Congratulations. No, I'm not sure. It really wasn't that different from what I expected to hear, but Sean, who works for efficiency works through a third party called Eris. We were talking about evaluation and we were talking afterwards. And his recommendation is getting rid of your gas furnace and having an installing a cold climate heat pump. And I like the idea of, of, you know, the hybrid systems, which is really weird because that was the recommendation out of a study that came that was commissioned by us and for Collins correct. It's a conjunction with, with PRPA. So, I feel like, Oh, you know, we don't have our story straight yet. And I don't know who's right or who's wrong, but Sean said, almost everybody he does an assessment for these days is talking about heat pumps. So, okay. Yeah, I thought that was good information and I wanted to say it to you as well as this, this group because, you know, we've got to get moving because it sounds like the public is a little bit ahead of us. And yeah, I think there's more, more information if you worked out because, because people who are in the business have differing opinions. Still. So isn't that exciting. Well, it's not unexpected. I suppose. It happens. Yeah, he also said, installing heat pumps is really complicated. In terms of the math, you know, in terms of the sizing when our affordable housing partners on the RMI are saying all it's easy. You know, anybody who can do an air conditioner can do this. So, yeah, it just, it just really brought home to me that this is going to be a lot of work. And I have to do some field work to really get ready. I appreciate the anecdotes. Yeah. And I also appreciate you bringing up just the additional work that's happening, kind of at the, at the owner community and flat river level on coordinating, not only what we're doing here in Longmont, but what's happening across the other three owner communities in terms of devices that we want to encourage and how we interact with those devices and how we coordinate with the supply that is available at the time. And, you know, we don't have, we don't have all the answers yet but if we don't start working on figuring that out, we're going to be behind. And so we're, you know, I feel like we're in a good place to get started. And fortunately, we do have those teams that evolved out of the distributed energy resource strategy effort that flat river hosted. And those are live and real teams that are trying to come up with solutions that work. So thank you for, for mentioning that Marsha. I just kind of add on to that. And in terms of the both the education and the financing components. Yeah, that that you had that you had mentioned, at least in my experience as a homeowner, most of my large appliance repairs happen because the last one failed. And I can imagine that I'm going to replace a furnace, probably in the middle of the winter when my furnace fails on the coldest day. And one of the things that I feel could be really helpful from the city is to actually on that education side, have kind of easily accessible resources for things that are recommended that have worked different places. I feel that way as well about, you know, I'm considering installing a level two charger in my house for electric car. And if there are models that could be more useful in the future, it would be great if the city had recommendations for those things. I feel that same way about some of the financing options as well. I am bombarded with spam and emails about how I can have solar panels put on my house and not pay a penny. And I, most of it, I assume is just nonsense. But it would also be great if, if, if we had some sort of a process to help people kind of like quickly. And in like a, in a realistic, for the situation way, sort through some of the actual options for, oh, you want to get solar panels and you want to maybe finance them. You know, I don't really think that we could go through a process of like certifying different companies in the city. I think that could be a very long and difficult process. But like, next light did this when next light came about they had a list of like Wi Fi routers that could maximize your speed, you know, like, oh, by the way, I know that everybody can do this research on their own but here are 10 different models that are really going to help you make the list of your next light capability. And for me, that was just like, oh, that's great. That's what I want. I don't want to have to go search through 5,000 different Wi Fi routers to try to figure it out. And, and I could see a similar type of process for heat pumps or solar panel, whatever it is, level two chargers, all the things like that that could be helpful if, if we had a resource. You know, I think when I was at the last meeting somebody commented on how great the long month waste wizard resources, if you are a cycle stuff like that is a wonderful resource whoever did a great job. And something, something kind of on that lines that helps people who want to update technologies but maybe don't want to spend, you know, weeks doing a ton of research or have to make a decision very quickly because our house is freezing. Yeah. That was actually another thing I learned from efficiency works this morning. We are in the beneficial electrification team is is really just kind of ideating around putting together a vendor list, you know, a recommended vendor list and training them or certifying them or something. But it turns out that PRPA efficiency works already does have one. And, you know, so we can start that. And, and for Collins has has already done a bunch of experimentation around vendor qualifications and stuff so there's a bunch of stuff we can steal from them, I expect. Yes. This is where that collaboration comes in right. Yeah. So yeah, so we are James definitely down that track. And don't buy an $800 level to charger right now unless you really just don't care how much money you're spending. Because we're, we're not we Susan's team, but we long month are working on getting the discounted program back. And it was a very deep discount from, you know, what they what you can buy them for on Amazon. But I think the, you know, the answer is that if it communicates through Wi Fi, it's probably a safe buy, because the, when we have a distributed energy management system that will coordinate charging and discharging, then it should be a bring your own charger kind of situation so as long as it has communicating capability you're okay. We hope Charles. Yeah, thanks, Jim. Susan as a great presentation appreciate the update. We're talking about vendors and things like that and you know one thing I don't know if the city has thought about, but it's an issue that I, I've been thinking about for a while is, you know, if you look at the cost of solar for it's dropped, you know, huge amount over the last 10 years or so, like 90%. But a lot of that cost, for example, for commercial installations, it, you know, is passed on to you know whoever's installing a commercial installation, but for residential it's not passed on vendors are not passing on their cost savings in panels and frames and inverters and all that. It's not being passed on to homeowners. So I don't know if this would be something that this, you know, the electrification group could work on, but if there were a way for us to pool, or to encourage, for example, vendors who actually do pass on cost savings to residents, because what it, you know, what it basically has done is that the profit margins of vendors has have gone through the roof for residential installations for solar. And it's already difficult enough, because, frankly, long months cost of electricity is pretty low I forget what it is eight, eight and a half cents or something like that per kilowatt hour. It's already hard enough to get a payback time that's reasonable on an investment, but that payback time is extended tremendously when vendors don't pass on their cost savings to Longmont residents so I think the city. Anything they could do to help the residents of the city get those cost savings would be a great help. And then just one quick little thing I'll chime in. I hate hybrid heat pump systems. I've been studying heat pumps for 20 years. I think they're, they're like hybrid cars. More complicated, and they allow you to limp along on, you know, a part of a fossil fuels heat source on very cold days etc and we have plenty of those in Longmont. They just kick the habit and go straight electrical renewable electricity and not have a renewable, sorry, a fossil fuels crutch. And point taken, for sure. I think we do have to be careful with the cost implications and making sure that we have a balance so that more people can participate but I understand your point. And also appreciate the question. Robert. Yes, so one quick question. And I have to echo the point that it seems like a lot of system updates happen at the moment of crisis so anything that we can do to help make sure that we're prepared to make good choices in that moment, like educating the contractors and the trades people to be ready to recommend those sorts of things sounds fantastic. I guess I had a question about the mix of residential versus non residential solutions and approaches. I feel like many of those things are applicable in commercial and residential applications. However, I guess I was curious, do we know about the natural gas distribution and how much of it goes into residences versus non residences and capturing enough of the non residential type stuff. We do and I wish that I had that at my fingertips are in looking at our building stock we did evaluate the building stock and of course we have way more residential buildings than we have commercial buildings. And I want to say that the residential buildings use about 60% of our gas and 30% goes to commercial but I'm going to confirm that and I will respond with some charts to back that up. So the focus. What we don't want to exclude commercial. If you look at our building stock and include residential and then you add in the small commercial so you know 1000 to 10,000 square feet or they tend to have resident residential style equipment. And we feel like, you know, we can. That's, that's where the biggest impact would come from if we're able to make some transition there. The harder it's not saying that we don't ever want to address larger commercial or industrial. Some organizations are already heading down that path on their own because they have their own sustainability targets and goals. It just gets harder and much more expensive. And so we want to be able to start where we feel like we can get some traction and build out to those things that are harder to do over time. So, so thank you for that question. I'll be sure and follow up with charts of what our building breakout is and our end use breakout is. Thank you. Well, I think we should probably move on to our, oh, Adam, you get the last question. Sure, it's a quick one just going back to the education. I do support the idea of educating folks on recommended project products that was like discussed but I'm wondering is the city also considering what to do with the appliances. When they get swapped out so the old ones. I wonder if there's like educational programs you can have in place there. And like the simplest thing is just to start like folks and probably just take their appliances to like the waste diversion center, but I'm wondering if there's anything else that can be done. Well, that may be a good segue into our next conversation about waste. It's not something that we have identified as a challenge but I think we should think about it. You know, what do we do with the radar so I appreciate that you have to do something with old stuff when you get rid of it and what do we do with old stuff right now. You know what do contractors do with old stuff when they replace with new let's figure out what that looks like and you know do we need to provide some interventions along the way so that we're encouraging things to go to the right end of life place or recycling. Thank you for that. And I just wanted to ask or maybe make one more statement before I pass it on and thank you for all the time that you've given me today but Marcia mentioned something about. Oh, thank you Heather. If you guys want to vote on take charge long line, go to the engage page and let us hear what you think about this. Marcia had mentioned Platte River, shifting from 100% renewable electricity to 85% renewable electricity and Marcia I would, I just wonder if you might be able to provide a little more information to the group on on where that came from and what the, what the context is and just sure. Yeah, it's not a policy change. So really what I was doing was setting expectations, and you know, the context is Jason Frisbee has been making a lot of pretty wild statements in the last six months like he wanted to control all of the systems that we use to control our distribution system, which, you know, is not not a good idea from an engineering or a fiscal standpoint for a city, you know, it might might be good for Jason but it's not good for us. And he just hired a new. It's a vice president level person for the chief transition. I can't remember the after chief transition and integration officer. There you go. Very good Charles. Okay. Um, Raj is sounding really good. His presentation that he gave at the last PRPA board meeting made more sense than any PRPA presentation since we did the 2030 resolution. And, and so I, and in that he can't he pretty much walked back. A lot of Jason's big statements, like we're all going to have to have the same am I, you know, and and Raj was very clear is like no every, you know, we're going to define an interface for signaling between PRPA and our different AMIs and in control systems and, and so he said everything that was right. And essentially walked back a lot of the stuff that I that had me nervous about what Jason was saying, but right before Raj came on, Jason said made the statements in the board meeting two or three times and also in in presentations to Loveland, which are recorded and and he said that he thought that with utility scale generation capability that he was planning on adding that PRPA could get to 85% renewably generated electricity on the utility scale, and that he was going to have to depend on city based distributed energy resources and load shifting to get us to get the to get us to the the last 15%. And, you know, that's a complicated formula, but yet he is on record is saying that. And I should I should also say that the other directors support him on that, because they're pretty nervous about their cities being able to afford the transition. So that's that's conditions on the ground. Well, thank you for that and I do agree that it doesn't sound like a policy change change it's kind of shifting and how we talk about how we get to the goal I do think it does line up with some, you know, this messaging about we know, we know with some certainty about this much, we know with less certainty about what comes after, and we're going to make progress on that part that we don't know over time. That's right. And the last two years have put not only our plan but everybody else's plans at risk because the ideal solar is being delayed in terms of installation schedules, and that may include the last big power purchase that that PRPA made. So, watch and see. All right. So, Charles, I'll let you sneak in and then we're going to switch over to Lisa so we can stay on on. A little concern. I attended some of those meetings with that river has a little concern with their commitment to the 100% renewal at 2030 in the first place. They were on a, you know, the basically they had to transition 7% per year to get to 100% by 2030. And now if they're trying to get to 85% by 2030. That's also 7% a year but it basically means they're, they're saying that we've had two years of 0% reduction in fossil fuel use. So, I understand there are concerns with the costs. They are dealing with the potential for stranded assets that the fossil fuel generating resources will be stranded assets if they're no longer used and they have 40 to 50 year lifetimes, but maybe you're only 10 or 15 years into their, into their production and use. The one small thing I'll kind of similar to that is that if. So no one knows exactly what the cost decline curves are going to look like for renewables over the next several years but there are quite a few studies that look like what they're showing is that the costs to operate fossil fuel generation electrical generation are going to be higher. Just the operating costs than the capital investment costs for renewables. So, a battery, battery plus solar plus wind. So it's very possible that they may by delaying and by shooting for lower target, they match may actually increase the costs of customer. If the cost decline curves, you'll buy some some projections decline as much as they do because operating costs for a reciprocating engine, for example, gas fired or something or peaker, peaker facility, those are those have pretty high maintenance and operating costs so anyway, I'm not, I'd be careful with Platte River I think that some of their. I don't believe all their projections, I think there's some other perspectives out there. Yeah, I was banned from PRPA for a while for saying exactly that. So, Raj seems to be a breath of fresh air and I my fingers all my fingers all 14 or of them or whatever I can come up with our that that he really is a better transition engineer than anybody that's been at PRPA in the past. But yeah, their, their insistence on running coal for, you know, right up to the end has led them to make some really bad decisions that we're now paying for because they should have bought more solar sooner. Exactly. Yeah. So there we are it's Lisa's turn. All right. Yeah, so I think we're going to need to move on to our option or our session be which is going to be the zero race waste resolution update with Lisa. Well, great, and we have plenty of time and this is going to be short so there's more time I will let you all know that if you recall we last year had determined to have PRPA come on. On a quarterly ish basis to do some just very high level of progress reports and they are scheduled to come in June. So, that could be some good timing to ask them some of the questions. The person that is coming I'm, I'm not sure, you know, I is not Jason Frisbee or the person that you're talking about Marsha. He's a public information person. So, I will at least reach out to him ahead of time to just let him know that this is on the minds of folks and, you know, that to be prepared to speak to some of the things that were brought up today if at all possible. And I do have Heather am I, I do have a quick slide with regards to Robert's question earlier about the breakdown of natural gas use from a council update we did last year can I share my screen or can I not be sure can. Okay. Oh, yeah, right in the middle highlighted in green. Okay. Can folks see that. Okay. Okay, so I, I, if this does not answer your question Robert let me know because I heard your question and then went looking for stuff and found this, and then couldn't remember back if this was exactly answering your question. But this shows are essentially our greenhouse gas emissions breakdown on the inside you can see those primary sectors of electricity, natural gas transportation and then that equity share which we've talked about. You can see the commercial and residential breakdown in terms of usage with regards to natural gas. Does that answer your question. Robert. It does yeah that that's helpful. Thank you. Perfect. Okay, great. I just wanted to share that since I had it so Susan doesn't have to do extra homework. Thank you. So with regards to the zero waste resolution I was I was hoping we'd be a little bit further along as far as the data analysis goes but there are folks working on that are doing a great job and they're working fast and furious because we're under a pretty tight deadline. But I don't have any updates with regards to the data analysis and the target evaluation as yet. So I just wanted to just give you a brief update that we're working to consolidate and and condense the information since it was a pretty long, the one that you saw last time was pretty, pretty rough draft. So we're working with that where we're better weaving in equity that was some of the feedback that we got from the equitable climate action team to make sure that it's not just more of a statement at the end but it's really woven throughout. We're reviewing that internally with staff to make sure you know as we're doing with external stakeholders that we captured all of the comments and feedback from our internal folks and also making sure that you know we're not putting in there something that's totally unworkable from some point that we're not thinking about. And then again we're really awaiting that data analysis piece to really inform our revised targets and then have that associated cost information that that I've been talking to all about so I apologize that I don't have any more information. I could pull up the resolution and walk you through it but it's pretty much very similar to what you all saw before it's just a little bit more of a cleaned up version so I'd rather wait until we have that data analysis piece. Next month is a pretty packed agenda. So what I'll probably end up doing is just sharing that with you via your packet and then have a couple of minutes during the during the meeting itself to just talk through those targets and that data analysis piece analysis piece and see if you all have any additional feedback before we take that to the council at the end of June so that timeframe is going to be pretty tight for us but with that do folks have any questions or comments or any thing that they thought of between the last meeting and this meeting that they wanted to share with regards to the zero waste resolution. Well if you think of anything please let me know. Otherwise, that was a quick agenda item so since since we're cruising if people had additional questions that I'd like to go back and ask Susan or comments. Or if they think of something that I'd like to ask Lisa, I will allow it. Looks like we're doing well. Okay. Well thank you, Susan and Lisa. Appreciate that. Sorry Jim I had one other thing that I, as I was closing that presentation. I think Jim maybe it was you who were talking about that. The resources around like advising for different things that's definitely something you talked about with regards to electrification. But if folks don't know this and I stepped away for a second so if Susan mentioned this are also mentioned and see works please forgive me but just put a plug in for Boulder County's energy smart program if people don't know they do have solar advising available through that program. That's something you're interested they have a lot of, you know, services advising services they have staff that are specifically dedicated to that that's for anyone in the county. So, if, if you're interested in that please check them out. Thank you so much. Well I guess we can move on to item nine which is other business is there any other business. I don't think there is. I'll take that as a no. Are there any items from staff. No other items from staff. That any items from the board. Council on Martin anything. Oh, well, I guess I was going to say. Never mind. Yeah. Yeah, board, go ahead. So Charles and I are set up to interview for board vacancies next week. And I know we're going to have a list of standard questions but I guess I felt like since we had the time it might be prudent to make sure that we've gotten input from the board for the kinds of things we want to make sure that that we ask those applicants for those of you who won't be personally participating in that process. Fantastic idea. I think we have the time now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, do you are there. Do you want to go over the questions that you're asking already or I guess it's a good time to confirm the procedure. Heather, I believe, are you, are you issuing kind of a standard set of questions for us to use. Did I understand that correctly. I do have a set of questions that the city council has used in the past that will be sending to you. Lisa and I reviewed them a little bit and seems like they're pretty good as far as what we are looking for but if you guys have additional questions that you want to ask we definitely can do that too. Give me just one second. And you can also change them. I want to ask them what kind of bike did they use to commute to work. Some of them are pretty standard across the boards which need to, I think, stay that way but why are you interested in serving on the sustainability advisory board. Have you served on any other boards talk about your experience if you have what experience or interest you have that you feel would benefit the board and the city. Explain your understanding of the role of an advisory board and have you read the duties of the board in the city code. Do you have any specific ideas or topics that you feel the sustainability board could address. Are you willing to take time outside of board meetings to review materials and information related to what the board is working on. What is your definition or understanding of sustainability. Have you read the strategies in the city sustainability plan or seen a summary of the plan. Do you have ideas about how the board can support those strategies. And one that was added is October 2019 the city passed a resolution declaring a climate emergency which resulted in the climate actions recommendations report. And what do you think would be critical in responding to this declaration. So, so I'm pretty good to me. I do not remember what I was asked at the time I remember we had about four and a half minutes. I don't think it was all of those. I mean as the people who are going to be asking the questions do they all make sense to, to both of you in terms of asking interpreting and what they're getting after know it. Yeah, I believe so I think it's a pretty reasonable set of questions both to make sure they're familiar with the expectations of serving on any board and then this, this specific one. I thought sounds great. I'm good. Adam, do you have any other item has a thumbs up. Great. Yeah, I think so. Are there any other items from board members. That looks like a no. The Charles looks like he's contemplating one. He's not sure. I've been thinking it could be a very long discussion but maybe at the future. I just, you know, the city has been one of their goals is densification. I've been seeing densification but I've been wondering how much has been looked into how densification adds to, for example, the heat stress, because you have fewer green areas you have more paved areas or buildings. In a heat wave, for example, you know in cities. You can have very big issues with heat stress that happens because they don't have enough green area, for example. And so I wonder if our goals for densification as a city and our goals for, you know, climate resiliency and the health of residents. I forget Chicago had like 750 people die in a heat wave at one point. And they're pretty dense. But anyway, that's a thought that's been, I've been thinking about for a while now, and it would be something to, you know, I know densification also has some benefits in terms of reducing the distances that people have to travel to get between, you know, their home and shopping or between their home and work and things like that. But it also has effects on the average temperature urban temperature within that more dense urban area. Anyway, that's a long discussion so I'm not sure I should have brought that up. Well, we do have two responses. People would like to comment so we'll start with Councilman Martin. Lisa you start. Okay. Sure, I was just going to add in there that that's a great point Charles, it's a really interesting conversation and I think as we're going through our climate risk and vulnerability mapping process that will come to this group later this year so that you can see all of the different components of that. The key components of that is looking at urban heat island and, you know, the climate projections that we are anticipating in terms of extreme heat, and then what areas of the community are going to be most impacted by that. And that tool will, the part of the intention of that tool is to be used to determine policies and program allocations and things like that. So that we can help protect folks, especially folks that are going to be more at risk for some of those things like you're talking about it's a very interesting conversation to bring like land use in general is a big component of that as you're saying so we do also have tree we have other things that I think can help mitigate that but once we have all of that information determining kind of the now what piece of it I think will be really important and having some of those conversations. Development is a hard one as he said because it also you know also specifically with regards to housing is important from an affordability standpoint you know that there's a big conversation to be had there but thanks for bringing that up and we can really look forward to digging into some of that a little bit deeper when we bring that project back to you all. Thank you. Did you call on me. Yes, I did. Okay, wasn't sure. I would just add to that. You know, we, we are in terms of land use we are looking at more multifamily homes, both in terms of townhouses and stacked condos and we probably won't be permitting a lot of single family homes with yards there. In addition to adding to the heat island effect. They also are really expensive in terms of the cost of basic infrastructure. Whereas, you know, if you if you cluster your housing than the infrastructure is is the utilization of your infrastructure is better. And that leaves us able to do more Lisa touched on it. You know, not relaxing the urban canopy requirements. I don't know if anybody has not walked or at least driven through the. The, the thistle has a name Lou Vista affordable housing complex on the south side of quail. There's a land use center in Longmont, which is, you know, just east of the museum and rec center complex. That land use is a pretty good model, because even though it's dense housing, you know, joined housing, and there's very little private land, in fact, there's no private land ownership, but there are walkable green areas. And that is, there's almost as much exposed earth as there would be in, you know, a conventional suburban neighborhood there's just, there's less asphalt and more people. You know, I don't know. I haven't done any physical math, but to know what the heat effects of that are, but it's got to be pretty good and I think that our friend Matthew Popkin said, every city densifies itself in its own way, and our, I think it's getting pretty deliberate in terms of what's going on right now. In terms of looking, you know, putting a three to five year horizon on densification to try to think about reclaiming asphalt. It's an LEDP organization that is about to name itself the 15 minute city committee that is looking at hybrid transit capability to essentially you know the premise of the thing is you ought to be able to get from any place to in Longmont to any place else in 15 minutes without using an automobile. And, you know, that's going to, we're not sure what form that's going to take because there are lots of different ways to do it. But, you know, all of those things are are really looking, looking at achieving a higher density without turning into a concrete level. And, and a lot of those efforts are on the way I think it would make great topic for a future session. Adam, over here. Yeah, I'd be interested to hear more about this in a future session, as well as the issue of increased wildfire risk and how you would add in those green spaces, in a way that doesn't make the more densely packed areas, even higher levels of risk due to all the fuel for those fires. So I am all for adding in more green space, I think would have to be done in a smart way. So that can complement the native landscape and not just add more fire risk to our already increasing fire risk areas. I think that's more building codes that the green spaces have a potential for being a fire break. But if you use the wrong building materials, you know, a fire can rip through that like it, you know, it did in the old days. So, yeah, but that is a good point. Yeah, I'd agree that I'd love this to be a topic for further real conversation I think you know it's kind of in parallel to the cost of housing in Longmont. And, you know, I was all the discussions about densification I always I moved to Longmont in 2014. And I always wonder what I would do if I was trying to move there now and the answer is I wouldn't be able to afford to move there. And so I always like to make sure that 2014 Jim would still have options and somewhere to live within striking distance of his job. So I think that that would be a very good conversation for us to have as a as a board sometime later. Great items from the Council. Council Martin, do you have anything to add. Well, there is in fact, on May 31, there is a work session by Council, which is it's still open to the public, but it is going to be on affordable and attainable housing and what technologies. So we want, we are planning to apply to that. So that might be really interesting. If anybody wants to wants to attend that. And last night we had we had a discussion of the library district which other than the fact is that you know we've got to figure out how to how to find money and also how to have a vision about what the library should be because you know what we found out so far is that it's got half as much funding as it ought to have. And we should be ashamed of ourselves. But the other thing that we discussed was how we're going to approach the budget, and the long run is kind of rolling in money but it's almost all going to have to go to salary increases. I introduced last night. Direction to Council that we need to look at the idea of, of reusable technology to make things that we've, you know, usually done by increasing staff, doable other ways. And I think, you know, traffic control public safety is a big one also safety in the, in the parks and durability in the parks. And one of the issues about that is, is city sustainability. We are not designed for a heat wave or a cold snap in terms of our outdoor public amenities. And I think that we have to change that now because you know we saw what happened in the winter of 2022 in terms of things getting really really cold. And in our summers I'm already getting complaints that says I can't walk my dog across Roosevelt Park because there's not enough places to get water. You know and if you've got a dog and a kid you can't carry enough water for both of them easily. So we need to look at stuff like having, having drinking fountains in our outdoor amenities just to just for public safety because people will be able to get dehydrated. We need to have our outdoor restrooms be able to be open 365 days a year without the pipes freezing. And you know there's there's just a whole bunch of climate sustainability design changes that need to be, in my opinion at least, rolled into the engineering of the city. To address your question I'm sure it was a direct answer. Oh we just, we just like updates for the updates from the council so I think that was great. Adam, Adam you had a Sure, quick question on updating the parks. Are there opportunities for spaces for more parks and like roughly how many are there. And like is that a chance to put some of that new infrastructure in place. The parks are, I think they call it renewing Lisa do you have the right word for that. There's a rolling schedule of updating the infrastructure. Becky, you came you became visible do you have. You're just talking about this today. Right word yeah we have we have a long term park renewal program where we're, you know going through and we have a pretty robust asset inventory about every, every trash can every bench that's in the park and and how long it's been there, and when it will likely need to be replaced. Yeah. You know again it's a, it's a matter of of an incrementally applied policy. I was just talking to a city manager Seder. You know, one of the things that we've got to do is, is look at at low water use landscaping. And most of the not landscaping that's not on private that's not on individually owned properties is under the management, excuse me, of homeowners associations, who are really fond of bluegrass. So we've either got to educate the public so that they will pressure their HOA is to change their policy, or we've got to educate the General Assembly so that the state will change the powers of of HOA so that they have to zero escape if if a municipality wants them to they have to zero escape their public land their open land. As they did a few years ago, you know, you an HOA cannot prevent you from zero escaping your own yard any longer. And so, one of the parts of the discussion in terms of the sustainable city is changing the relationship between the municipality and the homeowners association believe it or not. I find the discussion of parts really interesting. I live right near garden acres park. And I also spent a lot of time near the lake Macintosh, and it's really astounded me over the last few years how much more popular Macintosh has become. And I've always, you know, in the summers, I think it's really popular because it's one of the places you can go and find a lot of shade and be outside and still actually the south shore of Lake Macintosh has a lot of nice big trees. Yeah, and garden garden acres park is kind of like the opposite. It's like almost impossible, except for down to the parking lot to go and spend time there and not just be baked by the sun. I'd be very interested in these discussions. You know, that's that's something that I don't know if anyone has studied yet, you know, maybe the arborist. You know, the idea of of water sparing shade structures, you know, whether it's, you know, breezeways that that that simulate leafy shade, or, or whether it's water sparing trees that don't do as much transpiration, or what but I don't think anybody's looking at that. Do you know anything about it Lisa. Yeah, that's been happening for quite a while in places that are more desert than we are sustain tree canopy as easily as we can and I so that's been on my radar in terms of as we're talking about shade. what are some alternatives potentially to trees? Obviously, trees have lots of other benefits, but I think that we are gonna have to really start considering some of those things as we look at it from a public health and safety standpoint like you're talking about. And I mean, I think our forestry folks are doing a great job in terms of really understanding and looking at regionally and climate-appropriate tree species and things like that. And obviously as we're dealing with the emerald ash borer and we're looking forward to replacement of trees and things like that. But yeah, that's definitely something that's been happening for a while, that I do think that we are gonna have to consider kind of all of our options. And I think that's where a lot of that community engagement too is gonna be really important for us to understand what really makes sense for people. And I can sympathize with you, Jim, just this last weekend, I had my kids at a new park and I was like, oh, mental note, lots of trees at this park. Like, because yeah, it's definitely, it's gonna be more intense. Adam. Yeah, another area I think that would benefit from more shade or parking lots, that's something that's common throughout the entire city and often you just see a bunch of lampposts and small trees. And so there I'd be concerned about folks getting from their cars or bikes or whatever to the places that they wanna get to, such as the buildings and doing so or they're not just exposed to a lot of sun on top of the heat absorbing pavement they're walking on. Or less parking lots. That too. Great. So many things. Yeah, a zillion moving parts. It really is incrementally redesigning the city. Yeah, absolutely. Great. All right. Well, there are in our packet today we did get informational attachments. So make sure you take a look at those. They're actually quite extensive. This packet was enormous. But that's because it's a lot of good information. So make sure you take a chance to look at those things. I hope you read every single page. I've memorized all of the solid waste data. You can ask me about the copper contents of any day of any year. Yeah, so I think that brings us to the end. So if somebody would wanna do move to adjourn. I'll move that be adjourned the Longmont Sustainability Advisory Board meeting. Very nice. Did we get a second? Yeah, a second. We have a second. All in favor? All right. Well, thank you everybody. We really appreciate everything. And I will now conclude the meeting. Thanks everyone. Take care. Take care. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks.