 Good evening everybody and welcome to the State Logistics Centre here at Scoresby, the CFA facility that gets everything that you need to you in the field and it's fantastic to be here this evening. As always and we do these things I'd like to acknowledge the Aboriginal lands to which we all meet virtually on tonight and pay my respects to elders past and present and also welcome any elders of other Aboriginal communities that may be watching us this evening. Well we're leading into a special event known as International Women's Day. It's something that CFA has celebrated for quite some time and really does go and show the valuable work and contribution that our women in CFA make to not only to make this a great organisation but to also work tirelessly to keep our communities safe. I've joined today on the panel by a number of distinguished and special guests our CEO Natalie McDonald welcome Natalie. Thank you Jason. We've got Madison, welcome Madison. Hi Jason. And in the high views sporting the supply chain and logistics team. That's it, that's it. Doing a very very good job of that. Pauline, welcome. Thank you very much. And Janine, welcome. Thank you. Excellent. So we're going to hear some some really great stories and contributions from the from the team. Look earlier tonight Natalie and myself and with our lovely live audience here today our women's advisory community we had a bit of a meeting and had and discussed some some very vital you know topics for what for women in in CFA but it was also somewhat a bit special because we had some guests tonight as well and that is shout out a big shout out to Dawn Hartog AFSM and Peter Shaw AFSM who you know really stayed behind after a board subcommittee we had earlier on in the day so it's been a bit of a day meeting. It has been. Yep. Today listen to what the women of CFA wanted to talk about and contribute but also be here tonight to celebrate in our PPNC summit. So thank you for joining us and how important Natalie is it that you know we have members of the authority participating in events like tonight. I think it's really important and we're we're very lucky to have a number of members of our authority that we often refer to as the board who spend a lot of time out and about with our volunteers and of course we the structure of our board is that a number of our board members are volunteers themselves but they really do go over and above to support us in a number of the initiatives and activities that we're working on and so it was great to have them here today and and they're still here in the audience there and I probably got a few hard questions lined up for us later on Jason and I'd be disappointed if they if they didn't it's not a volunteer forum that's it is something special that than a volunteer forum and that is our PPE summit and we've been talking about doing this event for quite some time and we'll join you again later on in the month for our regular volunteer forum but as usual we are live on on our YouTube channels and the like we do have the ability to have people chat and ask questions so I encourage everyone to tell us where you're watching from and and if you are one of our important females in CFA I'd actually be keen to hear what some of your challenges are and you know some topics for the panel and topics for everyone to sort of talk through so be brave and let's let's have a really good session this evening Natalie I know you obviously a very big advocate and rightfully so and and yeah when we created the Women's Advisory Committee there were some common themes that we were sort of hearing time and time and time again wasn't there yeah absolutely training comes up in every CFA forum doesn't matter who's you know who's in the audience and who who we're meeting with so training has been a big issue and one that we'll continue to have conversations about but the other one has been about the challenge for our women members and can I just say it's not just women members I think we have to think more broadly about the challenges of PPE and C then you know then it being limited to one gender but there are particular challenges in in some of our work in making sure that we've got the right gear for our women members and so it came up as a very strong theme over a long period of time and a very strong theme to kind of have a discussion about what is the CFA doing to try and improve the fit and and cut and and access to the right equipment for our women members and that's partly what tonight's about and I think the other thing to note Jason which we have done as part of this is understand that this is actually an international issue this is not just a CFA issue the challenge of recognizing that there are women firefighters or firefighters who don't fit what has traditionally in the past been the norm in terms of their physique and we've got to provide safe gear for all of them absolutely and speaking of all things international and I'm Madison will be watching you a little later on and you have you've had some very interesting conversation with some of our international counterparts talking about this very important important subject but I might go Janine again a staunch advocate and one that's who's contributed greatly to the women's advisory committee and sadly this evening you've given us some news oh well it's my last WAC meeting tonight I've been on the WAC since the inaugural meeting back in August two and a half years ago it's been a great experience but it's time for some of the younger ones to step up to the mark so what's been your observations and I guess and why it's so important that we hold a forum and a summit like this I think because the feedback that I've been getting from members in the districts that I represent has been about particular issues regarding PPE PPC for women you know if anything from BA masks that don't fit to boots that are inappropriate to gloves that are too large so there's a whole range of issues that women have come to me about and that the women's advisory committee has been discussing over years but I guess some of the things I hear now and then is that manufacturers make this unisex gear it'll be right Jack what do we say to that I can't swear on television I have to say the boots are the bane of my existence I had a pair of boots for 17 years I needed to get a new pair of boots I went along to the the district command in D23 to get a pair of new boots and I was offered a pair that came up to my knees I couldn't bend my ankles in them I couldn't get into the truck in them and they were 1.25 kilos each so I went back and said could I have another pair of boots please and they said oh well we can't really give out another pair of boots and I said well why not don't you have any others oh well there is another pair that you could try which is a bit shorter so they gave me that pair of boots so I went yes put them on and the seams the interior seams just dug into my ankles so I'm still wearing my 18 year old pair of boots and I think that's really highlighting the need why we need to be having these conversations but Natalie it's it's you know we'll talk more about you know some of the panel's experiences about PPC and fourth and form and function but there's also something that we need to do as a fire industry as well and that's for too long I suspect we've been a market taker not a market leader from your experience I guess or vision what where do you see fire services role and for many people that might not know Natalie is also a director on on AFAC so the Australasian Fire and Emergency Services Council how important is it for fire services or emergency services in general to be pushing suppliers pushing manufacturers and designers to make equipment that's fit for purpose oh it's absolutely critical and we do have to take on that role and not just sit back and say oh well they don't supply it we have to have the conversations because you know we in CFA we've got four and a half thousand women firefighters that's not a small number if you add us with RFS for example or CFS as alongside our career fire service colleagues you know you're talking many many many many thousands of people who deserve to have the right PPE so we do need to you know identify where the key rub points are which you know a bad pun I think in terms of boots but and and then start those conversations but it's not only national it's international as well and we'll hear a little bit more about that from Maddie but we do have to take the mantle up and say we need to have gear that that meets our needs yeah look and and certainly Janine you've started a you've started a trend on I might be calling it boot gate by the end of this evening but I'm certainly there's so many people that are they're really sort of you know sharing their experiences with with yourself like you know lorry a hundred percent when you want to order your own your boots you need to know your male size and Gary again calls that says yep boots they can be can be a challenge yeah so certainly there's a lot of love out there for for your story Pauline tell me I guess what's been your experiences being shorter can say that smaller feet small thin feet for the boots when I went and was fitted for my structure boots they said yeah legs because I've got very muscly calves they won't fit in the boot so where they had to give me an extra two sizes up so once again the foot flops around inside the boot when I put them on the top of the boot crushes down and by the 30 minutes into the structure fire I've got numb feet so one it's a danger to myself and my fellow crew members to walk around in that situation and having them bigger around your foot you're actually foot slipping around so yeah you're a lot more clumsy than you would be if you had proper fitting Natalie from I guess from the AFAC perspective of these sort of conversations happening on the national level probably not enough but I think it would be it's fair to say CFA are putting it on the agenda not enough I don't think I think that it is something where the industry hasn't quite caught up with the idea that we've got a much more diverse set of firefighters in our workforce however you define that and that we then do need to see what can be done so I think there is a lot more that we need to do in this space I don't think I know and we do actually have to kind of work as one with our colleagues to try and see what can be done to get the right gear speaking of AFAC do you now understand you went to the most recent AFAC I did an Adelaide it was in Brisbane Brisbane that's right lovely nice warm it was August it'll be in Melbourne on the weekend I can tell you tell us about you know what you found going through the exhibition hall for people that haven't been at AFAC yeah there's usually a very large exhibition hall lots of spryres spryres lots of you know good things I guess for firefighters yeah but not many boot suppliers yeah right tell us about it well I went to see Oliver's who supply the the taller boots that CFA have and I spoke to one of the chaps there and said you know why don't you do a boot specifically for female and he said oh well you know if there was a demand we'd do it and he said how many people are you talking about and I said well potentially over 4,000 and he went oh really well we might actually be interested in developing a boot and thinking well okay that's a good start I went and saw the Magnum people who also supply a boot they had and I've brought it with me they had this boot here which is the Magnum Vulcan wildhike boot and they're doing some adjustments for females it's lightweight it's brilliant I would love it so I'm gonna hand that to the chief to look at and apart from those two boot suppliers there really wasn't anything else that was that was suitable so you know there's a very limited supply market so I know that it is obviously difficult for CFA to access a whole range of boots but I guess if some suppliers who don't currently do wildfire boots knew what the that what the potential market was they might actually think that it's a good deal yeah again real lot of you know discussion in the chat around boots I think we've really sort of enlivened a lot of people's discussions here yeah you know Bronwyn says yeah definitely the same issue with my boots I have small feet that my calves are bigger my boots have to be bigger in the foot but still tied up up the top which you know yeah one of the things that you touched on there and then Liam you know different options of boots is an absolute must you know different fits shapes sizes and comfort and I think that's really interesting when we did a tour of the logistic center earlier this evening we were we asked to see the slip-on boots and we asked why we couldn't order slip-on boots and we were told well actually you can but some districts are being told you can't so I don't know whether that's something that various districts could look at in the future great a great shout out there now awesome you know Laurie you says here you do an amazing job from my perspective I've been a firefighter in France over the last 20 years to get pants or boots which fit my size took me probably 10 years very exciting to see CFA's commitment well there you go all the way from France we're starting to you know really you know highlight the issue and that to me says this is not just an Australian issue it's not just a CFA issue like here is something so you know the suppliers out there the manufacturers out there there is a market share that you are obviously not tapping into there's money to be made wake up speak to the people that that need need a bit of gear and make something happen so Maddie what's been I guess your experience I'm a new volunteer I've heard a bit of things from the volunteer perspective and I've also heard things from the staff perspective and it's all very new to me but it it's evident that this is an issue and this is something that's really you know a fire at the moment that needs to be addressed so my involvement is growing and growing and I was lucky enough to talk to USA researchers about what's happening over in the US and as you were saying it's the same all around the world and we're progressing towards better fit for both males and females and all diverse body types so the future is looking good in my opinion no that's awesome and look I guess that's a beautiful segue to talk about your conversation with with our colleagues in in the States look for obvious reasons they couldn't be here with us tonight I'm sure they would have loved to have flown to Australia and be here in person to have the conversation I am sure but you know due to different different time zones different sides of the globe but even to sort of bring them in live would have been a little bit of a little bit of a challenge so we have done a little bit of a pre-record Q&A where you've had the important conversation with them can you do you want to explain a little bit about who they are in their background yeah so both these lovely women researchers from America they had a particular focus on the fit of PPC and PPE for women and they have a podcast with the SH1T doesn't fit and they broadcast it it just doesn't fit anyone and they talk about why in the market is it not available what can we do to influence the market to make sure it meets everyone's needs and the big topic that they discuss is how difference of PPC changes for when women are doing different activities compared to men so take a look at this interview and I think you will be pretty interested to see what they have to say really originated from Cassandra and I Dr. Kwan and I sharing an office a decade ago now at North Carolina State University I know it's hard to believe it's been that long but it has been and we were doing all sorts of different projects within the same research center and doing a lot of human subjects research and we realized there were no women there were no women in our studies but we knew there were women in law enforcement and emergency services and the fire service especially and so we just started asking questions and we didn't like the answers that we got right limited market share it's difficult to include them in a study for this or that reason and so a handful of years ago I found myself sort of as an independent researcher at Florida State University and Cassandra also found herself where she could explore some independent research and we decided to begin exploring this and conducting some research at our respective universities and then put together a proposal for the federal emergency management agency in the United States which really felt like this was very valuable and important research and was really lacking not not very much research has really tried to get to a solution right there's a little bit out there that is identified that yes it's a problem in fact we can go back to studies in 1993 in 2001 that show that women in the US fire service have much greater rate of fit issues with their PPE and even a higher risk of an injury 33% higher risk of injury so significant increase compared to their male counterparts so we know that the problem has been there for a while and that's what really drove us to want to try to solve it right to try to move the needle forward inch by inch that introduction now we're going to go through and listen to what they have to say about the PPC available in America and how it needs to change to different body shapes and sizes job is one of the most dangerous jobs right and the least we can do is provide them with proper protective clothing and equipment that that protects them from those multitude of hazards that they face day in and day out on a variety of exposures and calls and really the goal here ultimately is to fit 100% of the fire service population right because you can you know follow a 90 or a 95% approach but if you're in that 5% or 10% right that matters to you so our goal should be 100% that's what we should be shooting for is that we're fitting the smallest stature to the largest stature regardless of gender or sex regardless of ethnicity there are different body types within gender and sex there's different body types within ethnicities so our goal really was to begin to like Cassandra said shed some light on what the current pulse of female firefighters in the United States were facing with their PPE really their PPC we know their PPE is a problem boots gloves helmet hood we've realized you know there's our research for the next 20 years and trying to tackle all of these issues and they need to be tackled quickly right I mean time is of essence here in protecting our fire service and so we really like Cassandra said we're trying to lay a foundation right that was our goal is to lay the foundation and now that we've done that we are continuing on with a new project that was just funded for the next three years to begin to really analyze the data that we have from the body measurements start to assess where the current sizing systems in the United States for fire service PPC are lacking in fact we have meetings this week regarding suggestions and improvements for wild limb PPC so we're hoping to make change real change in the standards that's where it starts a lot in the US fire service and this data that we're continuing to collect will help us to do that our goal would be ultimately that we can sort through the complexities of body types proportional fit right and be able to potentially identify some different body types in the fire service you know that would be a longitudinal type study where we're collecting male and female anthropometrics or body measurements over time so certainly there's a lot of work left to do but we've been able to for the first time which is hard to believe in 2024 and the first first and largest US female firefighter anthropometric database and so this new project will enable us to meet two objectives one is to validate the novel technology that we use to collect that data and the second is to by way of that expand it as well the technology that we're using is just going to output measurements so it's not going to you know it's up to us to really analyze and figure out okay you know if the body is changing from a sort of a t-pose which is a standing position to a squat you know where are we going to see variances so it might be like in hips you know or the thighs like we might see expansion there so being able to do those different poses the scans will be able to then look at the the differences and the areas in which we're focused on to make some informed design decisions for really the pattern so there's a little bit of this project which maryth and touch on and we can talk about more but another objective is kind of coming up with that solution that maryth had talked about earlier and one of our sort of hopes is that we're able to develop an improved pattern for wildland and structural female firefighters so so a lot of this sort of first phase of our research is going to be focused on again data collection data data data we want to get as much data as we can in order to make some very smart informed decisions with our manufacturing partners well what's a great fantastic conversation piece there and some really great insights from both Cassandra and Meredith and really I think what they touched on and again going to a comment Laurie has made in the chat it's not about male it's not about female but it's about different shapes and sizes and I think that's yeah that's really really really important um Jeanine Pauline what did you sort of take out from that conversation with our American counterparts they've got the same issues on their side of the world that we've got on ours so then your insights well as I touched on earlier the rate of injury is 33 percent higher with ill-fitting structure gear or wildfire gear anything you know especially the boots we just thought we were clumsy tripping over all the time but it's actually a fact that it's down to the boots not the person yeah absolutely welcome to the panel our acting assistant chief fire officer Doug thanks for him thanks very much on the mind being worried Madison didn't magically turn into a commander over the last four minutes but welcome Doug to the conversation and you know and bringing your operational perspective our long you know a long career you're only fairly young um yeah a breadth of experience in a career in fire services here in in Victoria a question for you and until he's asked um you know when will we get female structure gear like frv and I know um you know frv have gone on a process of getting some next generation structural equipment um talk us about I guess why it's important for that and what you might know about the process frv's gone through yeah sure thanks chief so I wouldn't like to speak on behalf of frv but certainly I have experience um both in being issued the structural gear myself and up until recently excuse me being on station with both male and female firefighters and exactly the same as being on a cfa station you know firefighters of different shapes and sizes irrespective of their gender so certainly frv have recently or sorry I think it was about 18 months ago from at a guest issued a new generation of structural firefighting ppc but I think the important thing would be is that it's both that both sets of ppc that are made supplied to frv and cfa are both made by the same supplier I obviously have worn the new ppc while I was still on station it's not it's an evolution it's not a revolution and I would say that as I said while not wanting to speak on behalf of another organization my experience with my shiftmates on shift is that we're actually experiencing exactly the same issues with regards to both ppc fit and functionality and boots as well and yeah it was interesting to hear that you know the population of North America is obviously a lot greater than Australia and they still haven't got right over there either yeah absolutely again I I gotta say the the chat is alive I think there'll be smoke coming out of my and on my computer before too long here you know Rachel says driving with ill-fitted men size boots is a hazard and she has to be very very careful when when driving the appliance and other comments here around you know even getting in and out of the appliance can be difficult with ill-fitting ppc so I guess again it comes back to that size that shape that right fit that comfort and flexibility and durability Natalie we heard Cassandra and Meredith excuse me touch on the need for research and data and evidence and I know you're a massive fan of data and evidence is anyone that's that's that's around you would know where do you see I guess yeah CFA or perhaps even putting your AFAC director hat on the industry or or the AFAC sector utilizing research and data to develop better safer ppc look I think it's critical and and if you look at you know the work that we've done around wildfire around respiratory gear the research that's going on around that that is part of what CFA is doing but I think at the international level there's probably a lot more work that needs to be done and you know the example that the researchers have given around the the issue and the fact that we have to work with industry to solve this so we're not going to solve it on our own we're going to have to do much more work with industry on potentially joint research or joint projects to test things out and I think that's not necessarily been a feature of the way you know things have happened but but there's no question that we're going to have to try and influence industry to get better results because it's it appears to be a universal issue absolutely and and I just I just don't think that that we can keep our head in the sand and go well somebody should do something about it I think we have to step into it as an organization as an industry work with the suppliers and say this is what we actually need to keep our people as safe as we can because at the end of the day there's a lot of people yes and you know even if we just looked at the volunteer firefighting cohort in New South Wales and Victoria combined you know that's some you know 120 odd thousand volunteers yeah throwing Queensland South Australia Western Australia Tasmania you know that's a lot of volunteer firefighters and and career firefighters as well here in in Australia that need proper fitting designed PPC so yeah there really is a I guess a market and a drive to ensure that we get the right stuff for our volunteers I think so and I think we have to you know we have to move away from the in the case of women in particular that they're just a bit littler than men the body shapes they move different differently and then that's not always true anyway you know there's a different set of design issues there's a different set of movement issues and we do have to think about that and accept the reality that our fire services are no longer homogeneous they actually have a as you said people from a vast array of backgrounds body types sizes they're all firefighters trying to do a good job and we need to find ways to expand the the range of options available and I think you know I you know Doug I reflect on you know when I first started in the you know the fire brigade movement you know not that long ago well that probably was by some people's stands I guess you know and I reflect on you know what PPC was like when I first you know rolled into you know that rural shed and and I guess the A it was you know there was no such thing as female sizing when I you know when I first started and then to your comment about evolution revolution and then the industry moved to this wonderful thing called you know unisex sizing you know and then obviously the conversations that we're having having here now what's been your experience I guess through your career when you first you know started and in that how PPC has evolved and developed yeah sure thanks chief so I started my experience with CFA in 1986 I joined Katupna rural fire brigade so g'day to anybody who's watching from district 22 and I as chief said it's not that long ago hopefully but yeah it seems a little bit long ago sometimes but I can still remember getting on the in the ute with my dad and going down to the station to catch the truck and to be able to get a pair of overalls out of the locker of the tank it was actually a bit of a bonus and then if you actually got a pair of a pair of overalls that fitted that was a double bonus so you weren't swimming in them or that they weren't trying to cut you in half and sometimes you might find a helmet floating around the cabin so you'd throw that on of course there was no boots it was just whatever you happen to be wearing in and coming out from the paddock and that's that's a little while ago now and then we had an evolution sorry an evolution over the time and there was different types of PPC that came out I remember one type of PPC that came out when I was a career firefighter in Daniel and we used to call them magic buttons because like whenever you tighten up your BA straps the buttons would pop off and your pants would end up around your knees so that wasn't ideal to come out of a structure fire like hot dirty sweaty and you know trying to water that with your over trousers around your knees but we've come I think I highlight those issues just to say like where we are now like you know if you look at where how far we've come it's not to to denigrate the the actions of and of people trying to do the best in the past it's just a highlight we'll have actually come to today and it's not to say as we've heard already tonight it's not to say there's not further gains to be made but we've certainly we've certainly come a long way yeah I think that really is a a um yeah we have come a long way yeah and there are lots of comments again in the in the chat around you know warm fit you know pulling the seat up to the to the steering wheel to be able to drive but having so wheel fitting PPC that you then can't you know appropriately reach controls and that sort of stuff so it's we've come a long way but there's so much more and further we need to go isn't it absolutely well we've got a little bit of a practical session now and I want to introduce everyone to Nikki Lund and Nikki not only is our expert expert fireboat captain of the Yildon Fire Brigade but she's also our project manager on the next generation wildfire gear and Nikki's going to take us through the wildfire fit methodology design why some of the features were built into the next generation wildfire gear and explain some of the practical purposes of of how they were put together thank you so what was based around the trial here is a there was a field-based trial that two members from every district one male one female was selected from the district management team to trial the garments and feedback was actually received from those members that went into the design of this this actual garment so chief i'm going to hand this to you okay so we have a lot of pockets and pockets was one of the things that actually came from the feedback along with let me get this jacket open along with the opportunity to not only have braces but also to have a belt so there's five belt loops here along with the opportunity to have braces if you choose or a belt if you choose as you can see here there's multiple pockets so we've got pockets here pockets down here on the jackets we have thigh pockets we have pockets on the side we have three pockets and there's also pockets behind as well i think Nikki um lots of pockets yeah that was a lot of the feedback i don't know we got and radio pockets as well but radio pockets on each side yeah and i can tell you uh with with some authority because i happened to be wearing this my mind the other week uh last week uh it nicely fits a 600 mil bottle of of water as well okay well i can tell you that the wildfire ppc project worked very closely with the radio replacement project so therefore we know that the radios fit perfectly in here excellent well take us continue on the journey so here you can see chief that we have a blank name badge so this is the same position as the structural ppc name badge it comes with a blank one for now obviously being in store here at slc and then the project has ordered everybody's name as surname the same as structural which will be sent out to districts and then on sent to the brigades themselves so it is a velcro it will come off and as you can see quite tough to come off so it will stay in place which is great but other feedback that was received from the trial is that they were like an epaulet so as you can see we've got the cfa epaulet here you also have your group officer your deputy group officer um you captain lieutenant and cfa if you're a firefighter and talk to me about uh because the fabric itself is very different from from our our current gear um talk to me about the fabric and why I guess the fabric makes it next generation all right so our current wildfire ppc the pro ban is 340 gsm this is much lighter at 240 gsm which the feedback that we're already receiving is fantastic on the the fabric itself and how light it is and how much more breathable it is so that's a great initiative that's moved forward but it is just as protective fire retardant wise as our car it's just about to you know i'm sure someone out there is thinking hang on we've we've we've dropped some of the the gsm's and does that mean that safety is being compromised not at all absolutely not at all so it's moving forward with technology um and just a lighter material and so this is 69 no max 31 percent wool and the lensing vein the fire retardant is woven through the material so for all the Australian wool producers out there they'll be very very happy we've got some wool in this product here radio clips yes we have microphone clips up the top here so we can have the radio in the back and you can either take it up over your shoulder through to the microphone clip here we also have positions for pens that was also another feedback that came from the trial the design trial so there's everything that's been taken on board from the feedback and i can't stress enough that the feedback is is looked at very seriously and constantly so we will take on board all feedback that's coming in and so please if there's anything that people want to to let us know send it in let us know because it's always taken into consideration one of the things i know from my experience wearing the wildfire gear in the bush obviously and you know i see that you've you've actioned here some reinforcement in the in the elbows and the knees which i think is you know i remember as a young volunteer you know always doing my doing my duds before you um before you wore through your uh your jacket talk us through you've got sort of i mean they're not flares we're not in the 1970s but took me through i guess the bottom part um so we have received feedback that people can put them on over boots and that's um something that they've said is favorable so you don't have to take your boots off um so that's one feedback that's come through but um they're not flares no chief no not at all um but they do have the velcro at the room they can be tightened um so it works for for all mm-hmm and obviously again you know we can tighten around the hands we can turn around the boots but we we need to make sure there's adequate airflow as well don't we for metabolic heat build up absolutely um and there isn't and i know there is a question in um the the chat about um coveralls uh coveralls haven't been produced for many many years and that is all about the metabolic heat transfer um so yeah it is just the pants and and the coat um so it's all about the airflow and and i know it's for the first time we've put the badge on our wildfire uh ppc the same as what you have on the workwear in color yes in color well done and the heat transfer on the back with the cfa on the on the back here um tiara if you want to walk around the backs people can see on the on the back we've still kept the the cfa uh the cfa logo there um reflective tape yes reflective tape um which uh has is is all over um a couple of spots on the jacket and um onto the trousers as well um so yeah very visible on the fireground mm-hmm um one of the things i noticed again when once wearing it um last week uh i you know i did manage to get one of the sleeves wet dried very quickly yes absolutely and that's a bonus as well um so um yeah no it does it dries very quickly um we have had some feedback that um being lighter they're so used to the proband being a heavier material so sometimes at night they can feel that cold a little bit more um so uh when i have fitted some members i've always sort of said to them think about when you are out on a strike team and it might be night time and if you know you might want to put a jumper on underneath make sure you have enough room within your jacket to be able to fit that jumper just in case and i noticed yeah some of the more you know common feedback that we've had also in other other variations is you know nice sturdy zipper yes so some of the feedback from the trial was about the zipper so the zipper was made more sturdy after that trial mm-hmm and in terms of our burn over protection we've kept yeah the elephant ears yes yes so no the collar is still the same and does um goes all the way up and then cross over with your velcro so yes okay um excellent well i think you know nicky you've done an absolutely fantastic job and you and the project team and the volunteers and all the committees that were involved in in pulling this together i'm going to ask a question yes yeah we've been talking about size and shapes and that sort of stuff male female different sizing how we have you know next generation how have we dealt with that thank you great question so the trial as i mentioned had a male and a female in the trial design so both of them were fitted out according to their size in male and female designs i'm pleased to say that the female design also has short regular and long length for them so that has come out of some feedback that we received from a forum that we had but the design is in a range from 6 to 26 for for the females um and 67 to 132 for males and of course we have the made-to-measure outside of that as well so it's available for all shapes and sizes and male and female and in terms of like the waist cut the you know the length um and the you know the inner lengths and stuff yeah we've been making sure that yeah we've got the absolutely yeah everything's been taken into consideration a lot of research and trial as i mentioned um to go into this design to make sure that we got it right and i know you've fitted out personally i'd suggest a couple of thousand volunteers over over the last year or two um what's been the initial reaction of of everyone wow how light it is so that's the first reaction the second reaction was um lovely from the ladies is that the fit is actually fantastic for the ladies um so with the the trousers they've got the elasticized at the back um and the option to have braces or not braces um or a belt or or not a belt it so either all of the options are available so to take all of that into consideration um and the many pockets and pen pockets they're saying the design is fantastic uh question i i see we got earlier on is around the belt itself so um bit of smarts went into a bit of all thought thinking in terms of the work wear fit out and the what next generation wildfire fit out is the belt that issued for the work wear the leather belt um is specifically designed to fit the wildfire gear as well fit through as well yes it does so um the members have got the option if they want to use their work wear belt that they can use it with this as well with the brace and obviously the braces if they wear the braces if they're if they're using a belt um they don't have to wear both so don't be cheeky awesome uh we'll look again thank you very much you you've done a fantastic job and thanks for for taking us through and now we'll throw to madison who's on our other mic admitted from joe in tarwin lower brigade prior to this recording specifically for niki and jason they have asked what progress is cfa making on better fit smoke inhalation protection and what is the process of the wildfire respiratory protection trials if you could provide us some more information on that we're trialling wildfire respiratory protection masks um out in the field there are 300 um members out there at the moment together with the plan burned task force team which are trialling the wildfire respiratory masks at present uh there are three um sorry yep there are four different masks that are being trialled both um full face and half face masks and um we are evaluating the feedback on the the members um that are coming in and at the end of the fire season um all of that feedback will be evaluated um with a recommendation on a a product that will be put forward um for procurement into a open tender market in the future fantastic and again a great amount of effort uh that's been done uh just it uh in pulling it together uh ladies just apologize for that i just i've got an operational call that's been ringing me and uh Doug's just been allocated the job of uh of getting to the bottom of it so my apologies um look again congratulations niki well done um both on the next gen wildfire gear but also with the respiratory protection trial and i know yeah you and i both very keen to to to get that to a point where we're able to talk to our members more about the outcomes of the trial and what the next steps are in terms of looking after again our continued membership health and safety in that that respiratory space so um thank you very very much um so what do we think about the next generation wildfire gear well i'm still waiting for mine i think that's that's one of it it's on the chat on the on the time frame it's important if you'll go back now and uh have a go at answering them yes so that's one of the things that certainly the women in my district have asked um you know they've been fitted a long time ago it just seems to be a bit slow and some brigades half of them have got their wear and the other half haven't so yeah yeah i guess in terms of some of the features that that niki ran through um what's probably what's your initial thoughts uh what's been going in pockets pockets of great yep lightweight um really it's the pockets i think yeah and the fit yeah absolutely um i've got mine and i think it's absolutely fantastic love all the pockets you can get your notepad in your um pocket knives everything else that you need and it's actually the fit is just amazing because you go in and you try on the proper size you're not just allocated um oh well you're about that size so you'll get this so that's great so thank you niki for all your work on that well done um natalie you and i quite regularly get um uh you know suggestions um you know things sent to us in some instances lobbied quite hard on you know equipment pieces of of of um you know ppc or whatever it happens to my might be um now there is a defined government procurement process that the cfa has to go through yeah do you want to step us through i guess how that's done just so everyone gets a bit of an understanding why it's not so simple um to hey here's something we want bang you know we'll go down the shop with the credit card and buy it so to speak yeah well i mean you know we've got obligations as custodians of taxpayers money to get um you know to get the best value that we can but also as i think you've heard from niki the the design process that we're now going through is far more comprehensive than it has been in previous iterations and i like to commend niki and team particularly on on um the wildfire ppc that it it has taken into account a vast array of issues that people were raising and sadly and it's been great seeing the questions and issues come up on the chat but we're never going to be able to do everything everybody wants um so the process of designing the specifications for new gear like this or the next generation gear is is really to try and get the best value for money we can and squeeze the maximum out of out of the design but we're never going to be able to do it all that's that's just the reality of the world that we live in and as you know even in the chat people still waiting for us to roll out new gear to 51 000 volunteers takes a long time and it takes a big supplier to be able to do that you know the the challenges at the moment around both work wear and ppc are around the fabric supply which is suffering from international delays and all of the things that we've seen in other parts of of industry but we do have to go through a very comprehensive process of developing specifications and that's that's what the teams at cfa do with our volunteers to try and get the best design we then have to go to market to try and get the best value for money the best contract conditions that we can to stretch those dollars as far as we can so and it does take time some of these things can take a number of years to from the time you start thinking about a redesign to actually rolling out it's a long-term project particularly for an entity the size of cfa so talk us through we touched on you did touch on I guess you know supply chain that's the stuff and not many people won't realize that things like the war in Ukraine and a ship you know a particular ship getting stuck in the sewer's canal actually has had an impact on cfa and how we deliver our services do you just want to touch on that for us yeah so we've had a few issues in in things like vehicle supply and fabric supply and you're right we had some gear stuck on one of the ships stuck in the sewer's canal when there was a a blockage there and and that took many months for the backlog then to kind of come through and and be sort of resolved the labour supply issues are also playing out for us at the moment so the challenge of actually getting labour when we have been able to choose Victorian companies which is fantastic or Australian companies which we do try and do and his government policy but we then get caught on things like labour shortages and that has definitely been the case on things like work where which the the companies that are producing the gear just can't get the workers because of shifts in immigration patterns and that little thing called COVID so we would dearly love to be able to roll this stuff out more quickly and our teams are doing everything they can to get that done but occasional things like wars in the Ukraine or ships stuck in the sewer's canal are not things we can sadly control yes i'd like to all the powers of the CEO and can't make that happen yeah um so haul engineer what's um i guess what are your thoughts to i guess uh international market forces we heard you know something as simple as a you know ship getting stuck in a canal and you know war in Ukraine and uh and the rest of it having an effect but also in terms of how important it is for us to be able to get the our ppc to our members but you know the members need to wear the ppc as well absolutely look i i know that um you know there's been a lot of talk and paul and you've probably had it in in your brigade as well that um oh well you know we get a do we have to wear it you know i don't want to wear it i you know the helmet doesn't fit this doesn't fit etc etc well it's a safety issue and yes we would like to have everything absolutely perfect but we don't live in a perfect world exactly um and for our own safety if we're making sure we're wearing the correct ppapc that's the start um even down to the t-shirt underneath um your uniform make sure it's correct because if you've got a nylon shirt on that's not going to be too good for you once you're out on a very hot fire ground so making sure what we get um provided that we actually wear it and we wear it properly make sure you've always got um your mask on properly your helmet on properly and your glasses it's all about safety on the fire ground at the end of the day you were talking about um you know wearing something underneath and we were talking at our women's networking group the other day about um the cottons the cotton and the gear that comes with structure gear but those of us who don't have structure gear are not privy to access it so um and apparently it's only in a male fit but some of the girls wear it as pajamas they buy them bought it and why they wear it as their their own pajamas so i don't know whether that is something that could be offered you know across the spectrum um as a as a potential even if members you know are prepared to buy it themselves but a lot of members don't know that it's available so you know i guess um we've probably got many young um you know female volunteers potentially watching tonight um who may have only just come into the brigade only just starting to attend incidents and and fire going in you touched on i guess some handy tips and tricks what other tips and tricks do do you have i think very two experienced firefighters um for for i guess anyone that might be coming on going what do i wear what do i do how do i deal with this the biggest thing that i think everyone should carry particularly if you haven't got 2020 vision is a spare pair of magnifying glasses because every time you've got to look at a map or your pager or anything in the truck we've actually got a brigade we've actually got magnifying glasses in every glove box now yes because um you know there are so many times when you don't know where you're going and you can't see where you're going um i think also keeping spare underwear socks they're the things that get wet um and it's easy to change you know in the back of a truck if you have to um Doug um from a i guess yeah from your perspective um you're going on a strike team um whether you're male or female really doesn't matter um what are some of the things we need to make sure we've got it in the kit bag so we've heard you know spare socks jocks that sort of stuff what um what else do you think we'll recommend that people you know people bring on absolutely she so from personal experience i can say that uh went to beach worth on a strike team and uh got up there with all the other members and eventually realized that none of us had socks and jocks as jenny mentioned earlier but also toothbrushes like um so personal ablutions and things like that and by the end of the weekend we pretty much cleaned out all the beach worth stores of all their socks jocks and toothbrushes and toothpaste so um any personal items like that um and you know just talking about the um the the magnifying glasses i remember i used to relieve it a station once and the one of the officers there had an illuminated magnifying glass attached to a chain in the front seat of the truck and 10 or 15 years ago i used to sort of think oh the dottery old fool like he's too long on the tooth you should get out and now i'm thinking gee where did you get that magnifying glass from like i wouldn't want a couple of them too so thank you well that um thanks for thanks for thanks for sharing that experience is i think it's really important for people that you know that not quite sure of where they're you know where they're going or they're sort of doing to hear some of those simple uh tips tips and tricks we're going to do something uh special now and i'm hoping that uh technology works for me uh and we're going to now go to a special guest and that's a director of logistics from the New South Wales rural fire service josh torrens who uh yeah is is really expert in ppc pp and equipment supply for for our volunteers uh and for sorry for the rfs volunteers um and so you know how they've bought about and gone on the journey to ensure that they've got yeah right safe fitting um equipment and the rest of them so bear with me i do need to put the years on i'm not proposing to uh belt out a turn and do a bit of deejaying uh tonight uh yeah we're not having a rave at slc tonight so um for the workers that work here during the day it's okay um but we'll we'll we'll keep that off and i might uh just quickly check on and just for the team behind the desk there's probably about a 30 second delay so i don't know whether that's going to affect us but um josh can you uh can you hear us maybe not josh can you do you have us i certainly do good evening sir excellent welcome josh to uh to the cfa and to our volunteer forum summit tell us a little bit about yourself and some of the roles that uh that you do at the new sub files rule five service and what you're responsible for thank you um so i look after a bit of a diverse portfolio but sounds like similar to um some individuals in your role i look after engineering fleet production assets and infrastructure as well as logistics um and obviously uh p-fast remediation which is something we're working through at the moment as well so quite a diverse component um but engineering sort of factors in all of those things that you've talked about i've been listening in the background and i've heard the issues around boots and ppc um so it's it's quite nice to hear that we're not the only ones that are experiencing the same issues yeah it's uh i'm sorry when you have to uh bear with us a little bit it's almost like i know josh is just in sydney it's almost like we're doing an international call at the moment there's there's quite a few second delay in the broadcast here tonight so i really do do apologize um josh our first has been going on a on a journey around their work where a utility type um functionality tell us about that project and what you've done to um involve the volunteers but also um make sure that you're delivering a product that's right for them fits their shape and is functional in the field yeah absolutely um so similar to cfa you know we want our people to feel safe and comfortable in the uniform and the ppc they're wearing while they're going about doing their tasks so we surveyed the entirety of the volunteers and we got pretty strong feedback that we needed to go and have a look at what we're doing and a lot of strong feedback that the unisex approach was not working uh so from that we actually identified about a thousand people who wanted to come in and work and collaborate as part of working groups we we culled that down until we had enough representation across the different parts of the state also including volunteers staff in office out of office so we get a good understanding of what our requirements are um we then broke it into two groups so we've got the i guess the overall uniform group which makes sure that we have that constant image and branding across the organization and then we had a female specific group which has been really important because to date we haven't really had that engagement um so we've been having both run in parallel and it's been really good to to get the women into a room and just understand all those issues that i guess we addressed a lot of them on this one you know the opacity of the material the length of the shirt the breathability of the material the cut the style the drape of the garment um pockets was a big one um modesty flaps so a lot of those things that we've been unpacking we realized that um we need to understand what those requirements are so we actually went out to the market and we looked at what was on the shelf other organizations internationally as well we put them all on a rack we brought everybody in and said have a look at the shirts tell us not which shirt you like but what you like about the shirt so let's look at all the different variety of pockets if you wanted pockets on a female shirt for example what would those pockets style look like and what would be functional for them um so that engagement has been really good and what we've been able to do is then really refine our requirements to build those prototypes that really make that fit for purpose product and i think um Natalie touched on it earlier that um we just haven't seen the industry drive that innovation that we really wanted uh so this organization um i guess all organizations including cfa collectively we seem to be putting the pressure on the supplies to innovate which is not ideal the way the industry is going which is good to see and took me through so rfs has been a bit like cfa and gone on an evolutionary journey so i know from the wildfire perspective rfs used to have the the pro band treated cotton uh very similar in in in shape and size to to the current your proven product that the cfa has that a couple of years ago you went on a journey to develop your next gen wildfire gear as well took me through that and how you made sure that that innovation and fit for your volunteers was there yeah so i guess again engagements thing key um i'm not i'm a certain style and shape myself so i know what works for me but i have no idea what works for everybody else and i don't know what makes other people comfortable or uncomfortable so that engagement has been really critical uh engaging with the industry has been really important too like you were saying around the materials understanding what they're doing in relation to innovation and when we say innovation we're talking about global innovation not just australian innovation because we want that global platform we want to see what the industry is doing so the engagement component has been really important on those two factors industry here's the problem we're trying to do find us a solution and here's the i guess the scope of work that we need from our people here's the things that are causing us problems the things that are causing us issues and then help us collaborate and find a way to move forward because what we've gotten just isn't working it's working for some people but it's not working for everybody so talk me through um so you talked about getting uh different garment sizes in type shape um products that sort of stuff and and also you know a bit of international stuff as well how did how did that go how did the market react to the rfs reaching out internationally to seek that product information uh and access to uh it was it was surprisingly well i think um there's a few sheepish supplies that realized that they weren't bringing stuff to our doorstep that we were having to go and find it and pull it in um but there's there's a lot of stuff that's happening even to the point you know we're just looking up instead of the fast things are we looking at buttons are we looking at zips are we looking at um concealed access you know what is it that people want um so bringing all those options in was was really critical um if i can flip over to the material component though it's it's a very similar story um we don't want to go out and say we want you to build ppc only using this material because we're not experts in materials we don't understand and truly the uniqueness of the supply chain that they have to deal with um and we want something that's reliable that's consistent but that's innovating um so we want people in the industry to go out and push the boundaries bring us something still that compliant that's safe that's true that's tested so that our people are safe but really go out and push that envelope of innovation so if they're presenting something to us now it might not good for right now but in two to three years time and they have the appropriate testing we want the ideas on the table so let's talk about uh appropriate testing appropriate regimes and you you mentioned standards a number of times and you know there are you know national and international standards around uh safety and security of of form and functionality of ppc in particular um you know in the wildfire and structural space talk me through i guess how fire services like the rfs make sure that the products that get produced for our firefighters meet international and Australian standards yeah so obviously you start at the the base point which is give us all your certification shows you compliant but then we don't really just take that word for it we obviously get the materials swabs we take the material and we get it tested ourselves we want the verification in there we want the the feel of it too not just how it performs under fire but then how it all works together is really important so if we're talking about a utility shirt that's one component but how does that utility shirt integrate with the wildland jacket and make sure that that whole ensemble um functions correctly and appropriately um we probably have seen that there's a lot of supplies that focus on um the utilization or meeting of Australian standards when we go out to market uh and when um i guess i've engaged with a lot of other international supplies they all say well it's kind of expensive to maintain that certification and accreditation to Australian standards but if there was a market i'd go and get it straight away um so it sounds like the international market shied away from us a little bit just around our standards um but again it's that that challenging in that well i just need you to meet or exceed that standard so let let's understand what that is let's collaborate with AFAC working groups which obviously we do let's see what everyone else is doing because again i do feel like Australia is an unique place in that we we get what our limited supplies show us you know we go to an AFAC conference and we see what's on the stand but it's only a small snippet of what the actual market has to offer us so how how do we get that worldwide view but that compliance and certification to me is a really important question and it's it's something we're continuing to explore as same as everybody else and i know that um you know both our organization's technical teams really do work hard to make sure that the ppc that are produced as you say meets or exceeds standards and that's even uh that even includes what we call the burn test uh yeah over to canada where you know the the garments themselves are burnt in a scientific experiment to simulate whether it be entrapment in a bushfire environment or uh or internal firefighting offensive operation for for a structure and i think that yeah we need to do that to give our people the confidence that the the equipment that we produce you know is safe and uh and fit for purpose absolutely and you know being a volunteer myself like i want to know that the ppc is going to work i just don't want to rely on a certification that a supplier submitted as part of a multimillion dollar tender i truly want to know that we've exhausted every option to make sure that does function the way it's supposed to and that includes consistent and ongoing um qs um through the whole process we we wanted inspected we want sample checks done through the whole process not just at the commencement but through the whole supply chain absolutely well josh thank you very much for for making yourself available tonight i know it was a bit of a last minute uh charane for yourself because uh we were pulling a few things bits and gather and unfortunately due to some illness we had some some other segments fall out but we really do appreciating you taking the time to share your experience in the rfs and how you've utilized reference groups and consultation groups and and science and technology to to develop your ppc for your members and i'm sure i'm sure the communities of kellyville all the safer for having you on their local truck my friend but thank you very much and we wish you and the members of the rfs all the best uh for the best left of the season so appreciate excellent well thank you well we'll now um you know talk about and throw to a video which really does look at how um you know u.s research and research and technology can influence uh how ppc manufacturing and design can take place power that's something that kassandra and i have really realized in and collecting the data when we were talking with women in the fire service and we were asking questions like do you currently wear women sized gear and we were shocked by how many women even still i was just presenting to the international association of firefighters a couple of weeks ago and i was still surprised by how many women in the room weren't aware that there technically are women sized offerings in the u.s structural firefighting turnout suit market and we can talk about some of the challenges with those two right but the real challenge that we've identified and that we are trying to pass along and share with the fire service is to understand that um custom measuring and custom sizing does not equal custom fit and sizing and fit are two different things so if you start out of the gate trying to fit a female firefighter into a turnout coat or pants that have been made and designed using a male human form pattern you're already set up for failure right so it's like trying to fit a square peg and around hull we can shorten the sleeve length we can lengthen the hem for you know uh maybe add a little bit of clearance in the hips but ultimately we started with the wrong foundation right with the wrong ingredients um and so that's what we really tried to spread that message is to help our fire service and certainly that's what we want to do here as well is to just bring awareness to understand that the way that the manufacturer may be approaching fitting whether it's women versus men or various body types in general may not be the best approach from a technical uh functional product development standpoint and perspective and so that's been the key thing that we've been trying to share so I think obviously being aware of your materials is one side of it but being aware of the design process and what pattern what measurements were used to create that pattern for example we know women tend to have a much greater variation in hips or conference around 12 inches in the general population whereas men only have about five inch variation in that hips or conference so if you're making a pattern to fit a male form your waist to hip ratio is going to be much smaller than if you are designing for a woman so the sweep and slope of that pattern would need to be different and so right out of the gate if we're not starting with a pattern made to slope and proportionally fit a woman it's going to be really difficult to get that fit right even if you are taking it in an inch here or lengthening an inch there it's just ultimately not the proper fit like Meredith said for us I think the biggest thing is being able to disseminate as much of our research as we can in educating um to all the different agencies what we have found because I think that's going to bring sort of the the most change um in in how people are wearing and their attitudes towards what they're wearing too I don't even think a lot of female firefighters are really aware of what their gear is supposed to be doing for them especially the ppc like some of them you know there's other there's different manufacturers that have sort of different protective I guess factors incorporated and I don't know if some of them are even aware of why they're there I think the biggest like like the gauntlet like you know you should be wearing that when you're wearing a jacket or structural firefight in the US but because of the poor fit many women neglect to put that on so again there you go it kind of comes from a historical to the increased risk as well when you're on on duty because you're not wearing it properly so well again a fantastic conversation and some really important insights from the team there ladies and gentlemen throughout this whole process we've we've as said we've got a live audience tonight and that's the participants of our women's advisory community hey give us a wave yay fantastic they come up with some some really good some really good ideas and and discussion points but I'm going to go off script just a tiny little bit and there are two people in the audience I want to step up to the microphone for some hot questioning and that's our two board members so as Larry Abner once said come on down welcome Peter welcome Dawn pleasure to be here thank you and thank you for being here I think it's yeah it's important that members of the authority you know really do you know seek to not only recognize the strength of our volunteers but but also celebrate in their successes and having been you know volunteers yourself you know I think that's all the important heard a lot of discussion tonight you've heard the issues you've heard the yeah the discussion and the points I'm keen on on your thoughts Dawn yeah I'm so excited and I really want to thank everyone and particularly yourselves and Natalie and everybody behind the scenes for putting this together because as you know from several discussions we've had this is a really deep you know kind of to my heart conversation and for those of you watching the chat at home you would have seen that I was cheeky enough to pop in a question as well about structure gear and research and testing on women which is something that I know I've been inquiring about and wanting to know not only you know for ourselves as firefighters but across the sector research is so important and I know chief you spoke about it earlier it just is is critical for all of our members not just women you know why we're talking here so know that from a board and an operational members point of view it's just as dear to our hearts as everybody who has been commenting and watching this evening. Peter from from your perspective you've only just recently stood down from the role of group officer for the Knox Group and you know how important is it for you as a senior operational leader to ensure that members have you know right fitting PPC that's you know functional that you know really does you know enhance the safety on the fire ground. It goes back to the safety of our people it's been talked about a bit tonight and to the point that it's not just a quick gun put out a structure fire somewhere it's the longer term days and days on a strike team and wearing that gear and staying comfortable and keeping it usable for a period of time not just the short sharp quick respond to a car accident or a small fire. So as a I guess as a male firefighter in CFA you've heard you've heard at first hand and as a board member the challenges that some of our members have around PPC sizing and that sort of stuff yeah there's no expectation of you to solve it tonight Peter with you and your your board colleagues but I guess you know you hearing it first hand what what comes to your mind. Oh look we've still got a way to go I can go back to the days when we had the one size fits all and it was literally one size fits all and if you weren't the first one into the fire station to get those pair of overalls you missed out either male female or so big or small so the fact that we've even got personal issue now is a big change from what we've had in the past. We're working on it I know there's a new review coming up in relation to structural gear I'm going to start looking at that now and following on from the wildfire gear that we've done there's a lot of cost involved so we've got to get it right but we're certainly looking at the right aim to get the right sizes to fit all people we can get. Absolutely well thank you both thanks for for playing along and being put in the hot seat there's no million dollars I'm afraid but certainly thanks for coming and asking yeah sharing your thoughts and views to this very important subject that's that's been discussed so thank you Dawn thank you Peter. Thank you Doug I guess that goes to what you were saying there before about Peter's story first one in gets the gear and yeah I think a lot of people share a similar sort of experience earlier on yes definitely yeah look some some fantastic questions in in the chat we'll try and get to a few and I think Maddie you've got a few pre-canned questions as well that we might try to get to as well I know we're we're running close to time and I won't be long before my executive producer Brad throws something at me to hurry up but I've got one here from from Dean reading when will brigades and members been able to order additional work wear items such as shorts that's a fantastic question Dean and I know I've been having conversations with with Kylie Bates and the team around how we will make extra items of work wear available another one that's really a lot of people have been advocating to me about including brigades yeah they accept that yeah there's an initial location and that sort of stuff but they want the ability to be able to purchase the gear as well like the lot of a lot of a lot of inquiry you'd be happy to sit here that state championships this year there'll be something going on around that around that space so stay tuned it's probably a good good good good reason to go to Marootna to watch the Juniors in the seniors compete over the two the two weekends but I know Paul Sandamura has been doing a fantastic job in making sure that we've got the ability for brigades and members to be able to access and purchase additional work wear should they want to no compulsion no expectation that's yeah that we have been getting a lot of brigades asking hey we're happy to buy it how do we get access to that so watch that space and my big thanks to Kylie and Paul for for bringing that together and making that happen I'm sure there've been many brigades across the state that are happy to to hear that so Maddie so what have we got in the can well we've got a couple of questions that were submitted prior to tonight one is from Scott from Hillcrest Fibergate in district 13 he has asked too far from here no not too far from here at all are cfa's parameters for additional structural ppc being reduced or amended the requirement for 50 callouts before being eligible for a second set of structural ppc needs to be reduced as he believes it should be in line with OH&S practices great question Scott from Hillcrest so what we are doing in the moment is undertaking a wholesale review of all the chief officers SOs and SOPs in fact there's a power work that's been done by our consultative committees in in order to to do that and I know a big shout out at this point to Adam and the VFBV I know we've probably been pep well not probably we have been peppering them with with SOPs and the like to consult on because it is consultation is an important part and what we do need to do per the volunteer charter but the reality is they're all some of them were you know signed off last by I think four or five or 20 or more chiefs ago so there was a need for them to be contemporary ppc allocation and renewal and a reallocation is one of those SOPs that we have just recently updated and that exact topic around when was it when will a member get their initial set when will remember get their second set and when will a member then get additional sets on top of that who approves it and the like certainly has been addressed so we're steering away from where we can hard and fast numbers because it is about horses for courses you know and the other thing we're also steering away from a little bit is you know the type of brigade that you're in because what we do recognize is we need to be flexible in how our volunteers apply their craft across the state so you know if if Peter Shaw you know who I know is a very skilled structural firefighter moves to you know rural part in in in Victoria you know and has the you know competency skills and abilities to continue to contribute can still be issued structural gear when you and provides assistance to the neighbouring structural brigade so we're trying to think laterally about how we do those things and these horses for courses and that will be guided by by the local the local act foe that was probably very long answer the very short question that's all right anyway next question Murray from district 24 has asked is it safe to transport and wash wildfire ppc at home is noted that frv bag their gear on site and send it to be washed and wanted wants to know about cfa's progress and what we're going to be doing in the future great question um yeah decontamination and contaminants is is quite a topical issue at the moment um Doug in terms of obsbestos biologicals those other you know um i'm going to call them hard contaminants um talk us through you know what that process is and where can someone find guidance yeah sure thanks chief so um the the procedures for both agencies are broadly similar um and certainly cfa's got good doctrine out there um there was an operations bulletin put out in i think 2023 i think it was which also refers back to the chief officer's standing order um that cover it covers um can use of contamination at incidents as well um so if if there's a suspected a contamination event at a at a fire the the gear's isolated people there's decontamination procedures for personnel to follow um the the gear is isolated then transported appropriately and decontaminated so the the procedures for each agency are pretty much similar excellent thank you Doug and i guess uh and i'm sure people are now screaming at the screen going didn't answer the question um the first bit is if it's general wildfire you know bushfire type type smoke uh it is safe to to be transported current practice uh is it to you know to be lauded highly recommend laundering it on its own uh not with anything else and uh to be used synthetic uh detergents not natural detergents because that washes the proban out of your gear uh that is the current guidance that i know there's a working group being pulled together at the moment to look at uh how cfa might seek to transition to and improve its decontaminations processes and procedures into the future again looking to where we can where we can you know harmonize our practices with our colleagues from fire rescue victoria as well because we do so many joint operations so thanks thanks for that um so madison the tables have turned uh and you know i get to ask the question this time and i've got a curly curly curly one for you uh members of the district eight have asked what is the official process for getting your structural ensemble most people would think it's a complicated process but it's not the first step is obviously completing the appropriate course and communicating with your captain and catchment team once you've completed the course talk to your captain get their endorsement and then talk to the district akvo or catchment commander to sign off to sign off the approval of your order the main reason why we go through so many approvals and endorsement processes is to make sure each member has the demonstrated capacity and competency to do the role but if anyone ever has any questions about to do that we have got a really great team out of slc um they can answer any questions about the endorsement and approval process that structural ppc um at cfa.vic.gov that are you awesome because you know people can sort of um some may not be able to see behind us uh at the moment is is you know we're both they're the bulk particularly where you know behind you and me was where the bulk of the structural ppc is um and where you know people can get fitted out and measured and because it is about making sure that safety aspect and that people can fit some appropriately because particularly when you're going into an offensive firefight it is quite a complex job yes that's a very beautiful way of putting it thank you man yeah and the dangers associated so you want to make sure that ppc fits and and and that's right that's right any final thoughts jenny following i think you're getting there um it's a slow process but as natalie said earlier uh you know it's got to be based on the research and uh i for one am very hopeful very good perfect and i've got new structure boots with a zip in them so laces and zips i'm pretty happy at the moment excellent well there you are there very that's good i'm glad we're keeping someone happy uh awesome madison any final thoughts nope well actually just one we talk about needing fit for everyone in diversity but we can't have this if people don't speak up so don't suffer in silence always talk up talk to your leader talk to your commander you know your captain and whatnot and make your issues known we can't change anything unless we know it um or the people in the uh in the center here tonight talk to your local women's advisory committee representative who i know will be more than happy to yeah that's it hi yeah me that's me yeah uh more than happy to take up that you know that that issue uh and really advocate it advocate for it hard um Doug any final thoughts well i think it's it's always worthy to note that we've still got further steps to take but i think um if we focus on what we're still yet to do we risk um acknowledging what's what's actually been achieved and i think that members around the state can be feel justifiably confident and proud to wear the new um rural ppc it's been sitting behind us it's um it's it's state-of-the-art and it also doesn't leave behind our our heritage like it's still got the link to the overalls used to fight about as a 16 year old so um yeah there's a lot to be happy about well it's been a fantastic evening tonight lots discussed some very really important critical issues for cfa and why it's why is it important critical is because we need to you know walk up to these issues continue the conversation you know make progress if we're to be an organization that is inclusive that is diverse and that is future ready to tackle whatever the cfa needs to tackle into the future and it doesn't stop with ppc you know we talk we you know we've been talking about diversity membership we've been talking about you know in fact of the women's advisory committee uh earlier and i think i understand it's a it's our next topic discussion around you know training uh diversity and training delivery uh and ensuring that it's you know it's gender appropriate and the like um these are all things that we need to do today because uh you know women make up 50 of the population uh and we constantly get told you know we need membership we want new members and if we're not being dynamic if we're not evolving uh to harness the power of 50 of the population uh then you know to be frank we need our heads read so you know we do need to make that challenge we need to break through uh and i see terry right in the audience tonight our d and i manager i know i should be very happy to hear me championing the diversity cause but the reality is it is needed uh and we do need to um to break through those uh those barriers well it's been a fantastic evening and i'd like to thank everyone that's been involved there's been a lot of effort uh been put into pulling tonight's agenda uh together so that it could come together in particular i want to uh for the people behind the scenes uh madison i know you've been doing a lot and i want to pre-record and that as well so thank you very much uh from our vst teams uh martin anderson um brad uh beth and uh tian behind the behind the desk they do a fantastic job uh every time we do one of these and again my sincere thanks to them but more importantly thank you to you the members uh without uh your interest without your participation without the hard questions being asked and the conversation being had our organization uh wouldn't progress forward the way that it has so uh big thanks and a shout out to everyone involved well thank you very much uh stay safe it is going to be a warm one this weekend i do in uh i do anticipate uh that there will probably be a few total firebands so um no doubt many brigades across the state uh will be busy and to wrap up uh i encourage everyone to participate and celebrate international women's day it's a day where we really do get to celebrate the fantastic people uh in our organization of the women uh of our brigades of our groups of our districts regions and state that do a fantastic job in ensuring that our volunteers are able to do what they do best which is our protecting victorian community so uh stop reflect hold a morning tea get together have a chat no matter how you celebrate celebrate it and have a conversation about the important issues thank you very much everyone and good evening