 Live from San Francisco, California, it's theCUBE at VMworld 2014. Brought to you by VMware. Cisco, EMC, HP, and Nutanix. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Okay, welcome back everyone here live in San Francisco. This is theCUBE, our flagship program throughout the events with the signal from the noise. We're at VMworld 2014, 50 year. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, our next guest Adam Ray, CEO of Bash Show. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you, great to be here. You know, DevOps seems to be a hot trend right now. So, you know, Dave and I always talk, you know, I had one of my degrees in my computer science degrees was in databases, but back in the 80s when you really never admitted to anyone that you were a database guy, so it's like now it's the hot thing with big data. We're not hearing a lot about big data here in the show, it's kind of a subplot because a lot of, you know, app focus. Right, right. But there's a lot of stuff going on in DevOps that has to do with a lot of under the hood things. So break down what's your take of the key trends that's going on under the hood powering cloud? Well, I mean, look, at the end of the day it's all about the workload. And so, you know, DevOps is just nothing for emerging of operations and developer worlds coming together. And so, if you look at across the workload, like Bash's point of view is around distributed systems and how we look at the workload from the data going up. If you wanted to look at it from the traditional DevOps angle, it's been driven not by operations people but by developers doing things whether ease of use, orchestration tools, trying to figure out how they're going to use Amazon and bring it back into the prim. So most of these companies, I mean, the other, so DevOps would be the one key buzzword and the other key buzzword would be hybrid cloud, right? And all of it's around trying to decide, okay, right now we're going from monolithic workloads who are always on-prem to workloads that are going to be distributed not only at Amazon, Google, you take your choice as your or a hosted provider and how do we manage that and what does it mean to our developer community and to our operations community? So what about Amazon? What's your take on Amazon right now? Obviously, they're winning. Obviously, when I talk to Jerry Chenick-Reylock he's like, hey, you know, there's got to be an Amazon for the enterprise. No one's materialized it and you're seeing components come out. Docker's an indicator on the app side where there are developers wanting to do enterprise stuff but I want to be shielded from some of the infrastructure pieces and there's a lot of legacy involved. So talk about your experience between public and private cloud, your observations around for the developers out there, the nuances between developing on a public cloud versus some private or hybrid. So I have kind of a unique point of view on this because I helped start and found a company that was sold to CenturyLink tier three. And so we were dealing with hybrid cloud when hybrid cloud was, you know, everybody- Before hybrid cloud. Yeah, when hybrid, exactly. In hybrid cloud was, you know, everybody said cloud bursting. You're like, what does that really mean? And you're like, well, I don't know but it sounds really good, right? Yeah, yeah. And so if you think about it on what's trending now I come back to APIs. It comes back to web services and it comes back to ease. Why does Amazon get driven? Why does AWS have so much engagement? Cause the developers don't have to figure out the back end. They've got a set of APIs they can program to and they can run with whatever their app set is. As it starts to expand to hybrid cloud you have to ask the question, what does that mean to VMware and its ecosystem? What does that mean to the open stack community and its ecosystem? And how are people going to pull those workloads and dissect them? So if you look at it from the top level I honestly think it starts with governance and policy management at an orchestration tier. But then it breaks down to my level at the database understanding how eventual consistency databases are going to run across multiple environments and deliver on quality of service and scale that's expected at enterprise. So there was a time when people said, I distributed database, object database, forget it's not going to happen, it's too complicated and all of a sudden boom, things changed. So what changed? And then take us through sort of where you fit in the whole database ecosystem. Yeah, so I mean we're considered a no-SQL database If you think of the database market that's under the unstructured side which would be no-SQL in its derivatives or you would see HDFS in its derivatives. And so underneath that market which might be three to five billion and growing aggressively right now, we've got a key value and object storage. And what we're doing is where you're seeing us play is things like private clouds. You're seeing us play in object store for public clouds. You're seeing us play in different profiles that are set for key value where like for example, Best Buy is using us for their shopping cart or you're seeing Riot Games uses for all their gamer profile. And all these type of situations we're asking for is they're asking for, we need to have a consistent set. We expect massive scale. We don't know everything that's coming our way. Can you say, internet of things? Being a publisher of that? And how do we prepare for it? Well, relational databases, wonderful, but terrible when you have to start dealing with all that distributed environment. Now you're sure it's terrible when you have to deal with you don't know what type of data is coming your way. And this is where a company like Bashu and low latency is obviously something that you guys got to be good at. Well, performance is critical, right? And so from our perspective, it's about the architectural design. You know, the intriguing challenge to me in the industry is if companies like mine who are building databases for operational scale and efficiency can deliver on the promise of saying, look, you throw it as petabytes a day. We don't care. You throw it across multiple environments. The next big challenge is, is how do you structure that data for your application? And so you hear this buzz, right now, there's a real data scientist. It's like the guy who really is with the PhD. But everybody else is just stealing the name. Yeah. And then we had- Well what's the difference between a statistician and a data scientist? Yeah. No, no, there's a huge problem. People are actually putting data science on their title and their stats or they're an analyst and they're going into projects setting a false expectation. And so there's a little weird thing right now where a data science really isn't a data science. So there's a little nuance there, Dave. We were talking about that two weeks ago in Boston. So that's a problem. It's a massive problem. It's a huge problem. So I got to ask you the question on this front. So there's two things that it used to be, we had to build an app. Let's decide the database, then we picked the app. What's the functional decomposition of it? How we build it, software lifecycle, great. Pick your database, app gets defined. With distributed computing in cloud, that's kind of not happening now. So is that shifted now where here's the app and then the database stuff is underneath it? So has that selection process changed a bit with distributed systems now in the cloud? Are developers consciously making application decisions based upon the database? Or are they making app decisions and then picking a database? Well I would say developers right now are playing to a needs of use game from a DevOps angle. They're not concerned. We have a real disconnect. If you think DevOps, it's wonderful like you started your Q and A with. It's a wonderful term, but the reality is outside of this world, it means very little to traditional enterprise. It scares them actually. Yeah, it scares the heck out of them. And so you've got traditional operational IT guys who are starting to ask, how do I support my developers? And many of them aren't necessarily even developers. There's just admin guys, et cetera. And you've got the developers that are choosing their database strictly on needs of use. It's a document store as an example and this document store has great API sets so I want to use it. Now forget the fact that I might actually pound the heck out of that for mission critical app and it's got to go across three times. MongoDB? I'm not saying company's names. I'm not saying company's names. So I mean, it's early in the process but here's where I'd say it's going to go. I'd say ultimately what companies are going to start doing is what they've always traditionally done. And I think this is where a eventual consistent distributed database like Bashow and others that we're competing against has a great future. There is an opportunity where the large enterprise are going to say, look it has to be operationally efficient at scale and I want to cover as many use cases I can possibly cover. Who's going to have the best platform to play for that space? And so you're not going to be able to say it's a document store or a columnar or an object or a key value. You're going to have to be able to tell a cohesive story. Because the real overhead is back in support. And is there a scale ceiling there? So like, again, you brought columnar so we were just at the vertical event a couple of weeks ago and I called it the Ferrari because it's a Ferrari. You're on the Autobahn, you're going 100 zillion miles an hour, Facebook uses it. I mean, their use case is just like, it's really. They have a gazillion engineers, right? Wicked fast, it's super duper but now that doesn't have a lot of flexibility to it. They're trying to do that. So that brings it to your point. Okay, I got a variety of use cases. Mobile is number one feature. I got to support mobile. That's in probably table stakes, would you agree? I don't think it from, I mean to be really candid from a database perspective, it's mobile is not necessarily a table stake equation. I would argue that operational scale and efficiency is a table stake equation if you're thinking enterprise. I would agree. So let's talk about that. What is that table stake ceiling floor and ceiling use case parameters? Because Mongo's been kind of ding although they admit publicly that it's not the case but there's a scale point where Mongo just doesn't. Yeah, good, great hack, lamp stack, great. It's well known. It's easy to use, it's wonderfully strong interface and I don't know the new CEO but I knew Max and I think they did a great marketing campaign to understand the developers. But everyone's always retooling that Mongo point and they get the scale piece. So what is the variables for scale? I mean, so if you're thinking scale, you're going to have to think clusters and you're going to have to think multiple data centers and you're going to have to think the operational overhead that goes behind and supports that. Because the real cost is not the hardware and software long haul, it's how many people do you have to have management? What's your engineering and operation overhead? Yeah, one customer said they had 65 guys managing servers. Yeah, it's a perfect example. Just servers. Now you introduced that complexity with database. Well, and by the way, introduce the complexity that the DBAs of today aren't positioned to be able to actually support. The technology that's coming down the pipe so you're going to pay a lot more for that guy than some guy that you would have at Oracle. Good news, DBAs. Talk about what's going on with React and also about show your company and some of the things you guys do is just get a plug-in because you guys do a good job. Share the audience kind of successes you're having and you killerly use cases that you're doubling down on right now. Yeah, so right now, what we're doubling down for the next six months is you're going to see push heavily KV, which is going to be profiles, shopping carts, object stores, things of that nature. You're going to see us push in search. We rolled out solar as a search engine on top of so people could get access at scale to what we're doing. You're also going to see us pushing out a lot of object store. So we've got S3 compatibility and expect us to see more on the Swift side from an open stack community. The idea being that most of the clients are picking us for blobs or other type of object store solution set are looking to be able to potentially do hybrid cloud or at least they want the option. I say the option because I think the industry is still a little immature in this particular. Was there a reason why you picked solar over elastic search? I mean, that seems to be a toss up right now depending upon your flavor. Well, so I mean, the underpinnings elastic search is built on solar too. Okay, it is. So I mean, elastic search has just taken a memory tier and laid it on top and it's much stronger in usability. So in theory, we could go- So they're prepackaging solar basically. Yeah, exactly. We could go and do some of the same things the last year. Actually, the intriguing thing is is I would say without giving you timelines that there will be a day in which elastic search will run on top of React as well. Can you take us, Adam, can you take us through a sort of an engagement with the customer trying to understand the opportunity? I mean, that's big, but is it sort of the share shift from the traditional database guys? Is it sort of more somebody's got a vision of what they want to build at scale and they're looking at alternatives? Talk about when you engage with customers, what that's like? Where's the demand come from? Who are you engaging with? Who are you competing with? Well, so our client portfolio, we've got about 200 enterprise clients and the consistent thing you're going to see out of our enterprise client base is they're thinking about scale and operational simplicity. So they've already like NHS, National Healthcare Society, which is the social services for UK with 80 million patients. They're running us in their spine project in that particular project. They've got 80 million clients who have to have their profiles available anytime for any doctor based on emergency basis. They don't know how much scale they're going to have or how much incremental data they're going to add to those profiles. And so having a key value store like React is incredibly ideal because they can ensure that everything's available at any time. Those type of critical use cases, we're going to look to double down on more, whether it's government, whether it's gaming, whether it's advertising areas which we've had success. What I find intriguing is if we can do concurrent transactions at scale on top of React and we've proven that we might be one of the best in the world at that, what else long haul could we do with it? And so we- The adjacencies that you're looking at. Well, object store is the one we did, right? So we did React KV and then we brought out an object store. We layered search on top of that. Without giving any more information, I'll just say that if I've got a component that is already strongly needed by enterprise, i.e. operational scale and efficiency, and I've shown that I can give them multiple use cases, how many more use cases could I deliver over time? Okay, but it's a classic. I've got a non-traditional, I need a non-traditional approach to solve this problem. I can't just shove it all into a relational database. So then that leads you to a key value store which leads you to all the choices that say, okay, now who's got the scale, who's got the performance, and who's got the adjacent capabilities that could give me a roadmap for growth? So a perfect example of not knowing what you're up against is Internet of Things. So we've got a large gas company in Europe who is using us to manage all their furnace information. That furnace information, they're collecting three data points every three seconds across 60 million users. That's just where they're starting. The reason they're doing it is so they can deliver a better, they can actually predict when the furnace is going to crash by reading that data point so they can call you up and say, your furnace is going down. We want to come fix it before it actually goes down. Now, ultimately, they can help you manage your house more efficiently, save your own bill. All that data, right now, they just have a certain amount that they're capturing. Eventually, who knows where. What better than an unstructured database? You couldn't even do that with a SQL cost-effectively, right? I mean, you could. I don't want to say you can't, but as soon as you started adding to it, it's a massive mess to manage. And by the way, relational databases have a place in society, asset transactions a whole bit. It's just every use case has a different date. Well, that's interesting. You look at our forecasts of SQL and non-SQL, they're both growing, you know? No SQL's growing a little faster. We'd love to get you hooked up with Jeff Kelly, our big data analyst. You guys doing great work, Adam. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. I'll give you a chance to plug the event. You've got an event coming up. Share the folks out there. You're upcoming an event. Topics being discussed and we'll wrap this up. I appreciate it. So we host a Distributed Systems Conference. It's a neutral conference for us or competitors or others that are stated on distributed systems, hybrid cloud, are coming to speak. We're doing that October 28th, 29th in Las Vegas. We're looking for a pretty strong showing. We think it's kind of falls in the path that people are trying to figure out how to manage their workloads across multiple environments. We want to be the place you want to go. Guys, Bass Show, great company, great technology company, been there. Really pioneering the DevOps thing on the database side. All the access and data and storage, Dave. You know, I always say, you want to go right to the, you know, they always say in finance, follow the money, right? In this world, follow the data and the databases and storage. That seems where the action has always been in cloud. Congratulations to success. We'll be right back. This is theCUBE sharing the data with you here live in San Francisco at VMworld 2014. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. We'll be right back after this short break.