 Don't talk to each other. In three, two. Daily Tech News Show is powered by you. To find out more, head to dailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, October 6, 2017. I'm Justin Robert Young from the L.A. Podcast 2017. And the beautiful Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles joining me is an esteemed panel. First, we have Jeff Kanata from We Have Concerns. Jeff, how are you doing? I'm doing very, very well. If you can hear me over the crowd, it's a little crazy here at the L.A. Podcast Fest. But I'm really excited to be back on DTNS. Thanks, guys. How long has it been since you've been on the show? I don't know, but it's been a while. I think I haven't been on since my child was born, and he's a year. So, wow. Well, it is an episode of Illustrious Returns. Let's get to somebody who hasn't been on in six months because he's been traveling the globe. It is Derrick Kitchener back five. Hey, thanks. You know, last time I was on, it was slightly different, but I like what you guys have done with the whole L.A. thing. I don't know where Tom, I remember there was being Tom and a Len would illustrate. Tom has been briefly sent to a farm upstate. Very upstate across the pod. And the other voice that you hear is, of course, Allison Sheridan of No Silicast. How are you doing, Allison? I'm doing good. I'm doing fine. I get to be on a lot. Yeah. Maybe I'm only here when people are sick. No, no. You are definitely on a far more than these guys. Now, today we have all united to take over for the fact that both Tom and Sarah are not here, but we will do our best in their stead. Of course, big shout out to our producer, Roger Chang, who is also helping things out. But first, let's start with a few tech things you should know. The AOL Instant Messenger will be discontinued December 15th after 20 years of operation and a note is posted on the AIM Help page. Who is going to the AIM Help page? Save services will end on December 15th and all data will be deleted. Users with an ataim.com email address will, however, still be able to receive email. Mr. Funk02 was my first AIM. You could get in there a little earlier and get that first funk. Listen, there is a reason why. I know too, I have no other reason other than there was already a Mr. Funk02. My father is Mr. Funk02. Exactly. Any fun AIM memories? That's my first thing I was going to say was I'm just really happy it's dying, so Ray Moosehead can just go away forever and I'll never have to explain it. He can plomp off into the ether. It's gone to the farm-up state with GeoCities. Hopefully it will live on somewhere on archive.org. Actually, hopefully not. I actually am very excited for the idea. I think we should all just get back at AIM until we know what it is. Just gigantic, let's make AOL reconsider. I would love as a nostalgia trip from now until December 15th. That's amazing. All at once. Everybody in Chattanoom did this right now. The AIM would be like, oh my god, we've got like a 900% improvement in our update. I don't know if I could get a hold of a 700 hour CD in order to get some time back on AOL. I would say this, if you look at AIM and the kind of social networks that have broken out past that, if you look at how big chat is just in general, Twitter effectively being AIM away messages, but having that be the product, there's a real case to say that AIM is one of the most influential social products ever. 100%, I've seen so much snark online after this announcement came out, but you can't help but admit that AIM was engaged in. That wasn't the thing, at least for me. That was the pre-facebook Facebook of just like leaving, hello, or it was an uh-oh. No, no, it was the door opening. Yeah, it would walk through the halls in the dorms, and then you just hear that over and over and over. Oh yeah, with the one person who's never turned down there, or blanks of black again, just leave it on for the AOL, it's the best of your time. And in so many good times with the cross-site scripting on that, I've just got to say, there was a lot of fun that could be added considering it was just an HTML processor. Yeah, good times hacking AIM. And I'm afraid that it's probably that the whole thing is running on a Windows NT-4 server, and they're like, you know, we're just going to put this thing down. There's no upgrade, and we just got to take it to the farm out back. Are there even any clients left for this? You asking the wrong guy? I think both of them are upset. Another thing you need to know this morning is Blizzard debuted a beta version of its BattleNet program that offers offline mode and many social features including group text and voice chat. This to me is Blizzard taking aim at Discord, taking aim at Steam eventually as well with Destiny 2 coming on to the Blizzard platform on PC. I think they are making a big push to own that space. But I just downloaded Discord today. Is it over? No, it's not over. But I will tell you that my friends and I actually prefer the Blizzard app right now. It is robust, it's easy to use. You've saved it all five hours that it's been out? No, no, no. For months we've been using it. This is just a beta with some new features, and they've had a client that's a great voice chat, and we use that to play non-Blizzard games all the time. We just turn it on in the background and use that like you would use Discord. This is something that Blizzard is very careful about what they come out with as part of their brand is that they do add that extra level of polish. Do you think that this does significant damage to Discord, which is gaining forward? I think this is the first step of getting there. This is adding features that are necessary to be contender in that space. Groups, and I think making it more like in Xbox Live or a PlayStation Network where your group exists beyond the confines of any specific game and it exists across a whole range of games and all of that stuff that you need to have appear offline, all those things that are just sort of basic requirements to make this everybody's day-to-day chat client when they're gaming, they're doing it. Do you think that that's where the value will be only in gaming for that, though? Or is that all it's targeted towards? Because Discord is not just for dating, right? I mean, I think they get most of their user base from people that game, but I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't. They just added video and voice chat today for everybody, and when we installed it, it said, hey, can we take a look at your Skype contacts? Sure. And I don't know how it got them because I used a different username, but it must have got my email in it and do all of my contacts. MrFunko2. Yeah, I got MrFunko2 as the first one. All right, I'll tell you what, here are some more top stories. Yeah, wait, hold on. Let's try that one more time. Well, I'll tell you what. I might as well say it. After Privacy Scrutiny, Mattel has canceled its upcoming Aristotle smart home hub aimed at children who originally announced that CES, the device, spurred a 20,000 signature petition from the campaign for a commercial-free childhood, as well as a bipartisan letter from two members of Congress. Aristotle was designed to be bundled Wi-Fi camera to monitor children, adjust ambient of lighting and noise based on behavior and include advanced functions like answering children's questions and teaching, so that's how it went. So, in September 2016, Mattel agreed, along with Hasbro, to stop online child tracking, and then they immediately start doing this. Well, I think child tracking is so much as a virtual parenting so you can not parent your child. Well, they record all of the data. I love that it was more of a doctor-nation thing, which is why I heard in other news that the board collective was coming out with their own home hub, smart hub, right? They've got Spokesperson, LeCudis and Borg, it's all about getting them early. Let me ask you this, because we have two parents here, and I would guess that this product would be more at Jeff's child's age. I don't know. Maybe you want to keep track of your adult children, though. Who knows? This is more to be in the child's room and for a parent to be able to keep an eye on them at all times. Where is that line for you guys in terms of I want to have all available tools to monitor my child, and this is getting a little bit too invasive and creepy and I don't want my child around it? I don't know. We have a camera that is a close-circuit camera that we use when my child sleeps. I think most parents do nowadays have some sort of monitoring system. The idea that it's just connected to your Wi-Fi network and maybe connected back to Mattel, I think is the one that feels weird. With their history, especially, because they've screwed this up before. We literally did the Barbie. We'll just leave that one there. This isn't one of those things that gives me the heebie-jeebies, but I certainly understand why it does for other people. It's not a product that I would brush out in five, but I understand why people think that it's a bridge too far. I think that this probably would have gone out and done well if it weren't for people who care about privacy and security coming in and saying, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because how many of those webcams have sold with the hard-coded passwords in them, right? Yeah, this already exists, and you can troll through the show-down database right now and pull up many camps that are just completely exposed to the internet, which is creepy and terrifying all at the same time. Well, I was part of my daughter when I called her up and I said, say, you know that webcam got thrown away? I told her why and she said, yep, you got rid of it, but she doesn't know about it. The other side of this that nobody's really talking about that I think is sort of the tip of the iceberg for some thing that's going to be happening in the next five or ten years is it had a functionality where the kid could talk to it and ask it questions. But we're going to see more and more of that as series and Alexis and all of this. Well, that to me is where I think something like this is going to come along and not have the problems that this particular product had and whether it be because a company will be smarter than Mattel and rolling it out and really catering to the parents that shouldn't be worrying about it but instead be looking at it as like a resource. But when kids are talking to Alexa now, you know, how is this? This is basically just a Teddy Ruxpin or Alexa, I would just say exactly that, like put an Amazon Ruxpin in a Teddy Ruxpin, call it a day. When they came out with the show, that one cracked me up because they said, yeah, like you can use it as a baby monitor. It had an ankle tilted up and so I pictured you'd have to put your kid in one of those nets so they could keep the stuffed animals in up on the ceiling. That's where you keep them, right? Overhead Dennis, right? Or the seat in front of you, I can't remember. One of those. Yes, so get this guys, security researcher Will Schaefer discovered that Uber had granted undocumented app features in iOS allowing it to access screen recording. These are undocumented entitlement features with special permissions from Apple and according to Schaefer's library of app binaries, Uber is the only third party app granted screen recording entitlement. Uber acknowledged this and said that the entitlement was stated that it was used to improve the screen rendering for the Watch app. So why? Panic! Panic! Get another of those! Uber's public trust by the villainist Uber! You're not going to believe what Uber did to Barbie. Uber of all people. Well, I think this is one of those, as Tom likes to say, fun busting opportunities as much as obviously the narrative and rightfully so is there for Uber to be playing the heel. This is an entitlement that was granted when they were building their Watch app. And as Darren kind of eloquently put, there is a lazy but understandable reason why Apple would say this is okay. Well, you know, you want to wow people with it. Hey, we got this app that's really great and useful but on the back end you've got to build all the infrastructure and APIs and stuff to make those things work. And when you're really trying to just rush these things to market and be like, hey, check out our smartwatch as the Uber, you're like, okay, now how do we get the video from the screen to the Watch most easily? Oh, just giving that API. We've already got one. Yeah. So if you've ever used Uber on your Apple Watch, it shows you where your car is coming from. It gives you that screen grab. That's how they got it onto your Watch. Is it real time watching it? Move? You know, I can't remember whether it was a screen grab. It shows you how long it's been since I've used the Uber Apple Watch app. But for the five seconds that I did until I realized it was a lot harder than just putting out my phone. There was that functionality. And I think this is something where the Uber has obviously done themselves no favors in terms of their reputation. There's a reason why their CEO is no longer their CEO. We have a new CEO now. But this does not... But it's funny that in this context, it's like, oh, why is Uber getting this and nobody else? And that's the conversation rather than, why did Apple get it to Uber and not the Watch? I think it's an obvious answer to both, which is Apple was making a Watch and they needed apps. And Uber was one of those big, high profile apps that you would want on your Watch. And the zone point of the Apple Watch and Smartwatches in general and apps on Smartwatches are those one button apps. I want food, hit a button. I want to ride, hit a button. So I can imagine the conversation with an Uber and their development team with something like this with Apple. Like, hey, so we're building out the Uber app. We want to be like a launch app on the new Watch. Listen, we're trying to get the screen from here to there and we're not seeing anywhere in the Watch API how to do that most effectively. So it's a good user experience and Apple going, okay, listen, we've got this internal thing and we're just going to give it to you guys. Yeah, the time period was really compressed to get apps on the Watch. But I had a question about that. If they could do that, why couldn't they use that exact API to get the interstitial screen from Wi-Fi networks on the Apple Watch 3 so that if they can take that video at real time, put it into the Watch and then you can tap it, wouldn't that be something that would allow them to get past that problem they're having with Apple Watch 3? That's a really, really good point. They're a developer somewhere. It's like shaking their head. They just haven't implemented it. Right, right, but they didn't give themselves the internal thing that they wanted, right? Well, moving on, a UK financial filing shows that Alphabet's AI deep-mind subsidiary generated 40.2 million pounds in revenue in 2016 but lost an overall total of 123.5 million pounds. Deep-mind had to disclose earning some of the UK law as it is still registered there as a private company. Expenses were dominated by staffing and related costs of 104.7 million pounds. Deep-mind is ordinarily lumped into Alphabet's other betas in earnings reports which lost a total of 3.77 billion dollars in 2016. So Deep-mind is Google's, you know, neural AI kind of play. You've read about it a lot and we've talked about it a lot on this show. Did you think it'd be making money by now? I wouldn't have expected it to. So next-gen technology, you know, you really got to sink a lot into the early days of these things. It's like saying, like, oh, why isn't Uber making money? Right? I mean, we're in shallow mind right now. Did you hear what they did to Barbie though? I think what they need to do though is like say, like, okay, okay, so we've developed it thus far. Now let's just like launch the Deep-mind at the New York Stock Exchange, see if the AI can make itself some money, you know, see if it's a self-sustaining thing. Well, I mean, I do think that this is interesting and the reason why it's a news story is because Google hides this kind of stuff normally as we pointed out here that it's normally a larger pile. So this is, to me, the story here is that it is not losing as much money as one might guess. Right, I was surprised by the generated revenue part. Yeah, no. I mean, not the last part, right? What are they getting money from? What is Deep-mind doing that's making money? They're licensing it to Google. I think that my takeaway from here was like, oh, you know what, I think that alphabet breakout was actually a really good idea because they can take those, I don't want to say losers, but those like up-and-coming things that they're really going to take a long time to kind of like, you know, have that fireworks moment or close. Deep-mind is something, there are a lot of players in this game right now and there are some like Watson that has a more recognizable brain. They need, for every time you hear Deep-mind, to think miracle. They want you to think, oh, and beat this Go player. Like, it did this amazing thing. It's going to compete in eSports. It's, you know, look what it's doing to Barbie. There's just so much, this would be so much better if you were going to laugh at these jokes. Tell it me, man. And that's why they got, it makes sense to hide it, right? But it was interesting to see how far along it is going. And also, it's curious to see, you know, this is what it is, you know, doing in the UK. Who knows what it's doing elsewhere. The Wall Street Journal has sources who say Russian government agents copied information from an NSA contractor's home computer in 2015 by exploiting vulnerabilities in the Kaspersky antivirus. The information pertained to the NSA's methods of network penetration and defense of its own networks. This is bad. The incident was discovered in the spring of 2016 according to the Journal, and DTNS listener MB noted that Google's Travis Ormandy identified vulnerabilities in Kaspersky software in 2015. Last month, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security directed all federal agencies to stop using Kaspersky software not immediately, but within 90 days. You know, it takes a while to uninstall things. Now, Darren's going to have an actual intelligent content purchase, but I'm going to step in front of this. Just to make the context of this show, this is something that we talked quite a lot about, and specifically the idea that right now, if, let's say, you were in the security field in the government sphere, now would be the time when you would want to try to attack a Russian security company because of how the political climate is. We have cast a little bit of a skeptical eye towards some of the criticism towards Kaspersky, but I would think this represents something a little bit more concrete to say that, well, maybe there is a problem here. Darren, am I off base, or is this still something that we need to look at critically? Well, you know, you're looking to be for some intelligent discourse, and I had literally written down in Soviet Russia antivirus effects you, I would say that, no, I do believe that there's a little bit of a witch, I see what you're saying as far as witch hunt stuff. You know, there's a lot of everybody who has done it. I'm not saying it's a witch hunt because there's so much of this that is beyond what any of us can know. I'm just saying that it's a good environment for a witch hunt. Yeah, and it seems to be a witch hunt adjacent. Yeah, it's a witch hunting season. I think that the same could be helped for as far as like wall way, right? Yeah. So the same thing about those, I think that that's actually showing like a sea change of distrust of like, you know, not made here kind of mentality. Like, wasn't the worst thing here though that the NSA guy took his work home? Well, okay, actually, you know, that's it for a while on that one for a moment because this is like, you know, if Russia really wanted some NSA docs from contractors, all they really needed to do was wait until next year because those leaks from contractors are like an annual occurrence now, right? Yeah. So to take a little hat for a moment, if I were the NSA, I'd be like, ooh, opportunity for a hunting pot. Let's send the contractor home with a treasure trove of misinformation because then we can analyze how the Russian hackers break in and potentially validate whether or not the allegations of conspiracy being compromised by the Kremlin are true. And we clearly can't drink poison in front of me. I really like your optimism on that but maybe that's what's actually going on. Yeah, it comes back to the whole like, you know, whether or not the NSA is actually some like, crazy big brother with technology from aliens that we could never imagine, or if they're just like the DMV. Are we disturbed at all that it took them from 2015 to 2016, some span of time? They move at the speed of government. Yeah. That's how the yacht got hacked like 14 years ago. Well, if the rest of the hack was really easy to hack back in the day, no, they're going to find all my messages to Mr. Funk too. O2, come on. O2. Her announce that it's upcoming launch in Louisville and San Antonio markets. It will offer only internet service with no TV baggage last year. Google announced that Fiber would halt future deployment making these two markets the last two confirmed commitments to roll out the service. So before the show, we were chatting in the green room and the guy behind us was actually listening to us talk about this and he called me over and said, I used to work Google infrastructure. And I said, oh, so why do they do something like that? Why do they stop doing something like Google Fiber? And his answer was really interesting. He said, you know, it's been a few years and the thing about them is they've got a couple of scientists that are leading the company and if they read about something new, they're going to go do that. And Google Fiber isn't sexy. It isn't new. It isn't the thing that's fibers out. It is the thing everybody already knows how to do. So they're bored with it and they move on. And I thought that was an interesting answer. It wasn't what I actually expected. Well, I think there's also the fact that it didn't seem to be profitable. Laying Fiber is very, very expensive. It involves a lot of regulation. It's hard. Very trenched money interests. And although it was for its time, this imaginary hero that was going to come over the hill and rescue us from... You would point to this and say, look, competition. Exactly. What was it that they were doing? Yeah, that's their stated goal at the beginning. It was like, we're not interested in making this a business. We're interested in giving people a hippiness to create it for their business. And then low, the publicly traded company started saying, wow, wait, this isn't really a good business at all. It's not a business, political protests, like infrastructure thing. Even looking further back at infrastructure, this is actually typical of Google, if you remember, the 700 megahertz spectrum auction where they were increasing the bid, increasing the bid, and then ultimately getting the FCC to put in place certain regulations where ultimately Verizon won, but they had to abide by certain things. Google was able to get in there by... Which was good for us. Which was good for us. So potentially, the Google Fiber thing, maybe this was the long-term, after all, was to disrupt the market in such a way that it changes some regulations in ways that we haven't just seen, that that was actually the plot all along. Well, the problem is, is that this kind of infrastructure deployment is so regional. Everything is city by city, and ultimately that's why it's so expensive, is that it's not like you could just win a portion of the country, right? You can't just go like, all right, we quartered up the country and now you get to do the northeast and now you get to do the southeast or the northwest. You have to go and deal with every city government and deal with every regulation and figure out exactly how that's going to go. My buddy just got AT&T Fiber installed here in Los Angeles, and I'm insanely jealous because he has gigabit ethernet, and I am also a resident of Los Angeles, but not close enough to gig. It doesn't work in my house. What do you have gotten AT&T Gigabit Fiber had Google not started with the whole, you know, whatever it was? I don't believe so, I think you're right. I think it's to their credit that this exists at all. Oh, and if you look at specifically the cities where Google did roll out Fiber, it was almost overnight. All of a sudden everybody... Oh, it could never roll out Gigabit Fiber. It would be impossible what they're doing right now. Actually, we have got to talk to you. Oh, my God. I think they turned off. They already had it there. So crazy that you were doing that. We were like literally... That's just a shot right now. This is a funny story. This is already on the way. I remember hearing it. Hey guys, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, go ahead and subscribe to thedailytechheadlines.com. You know, we can get into our discussion here since we are at the LA Podcast Festival and we have all been doing podcasts up here on this dance for a pretty long time. It feels like that up here on that dance. Make sure you leave time for questions from the audience. Is starting a podcast now, harder or easier than it was 10 years ago? We'll start with you, Alison. Well, I started like 12 years ago and I sat down and read someone else's XML to try to figure out how do I type in the RSS, create the RSS feed by hand. So that's a little bit easier. I look back and I see what other people are doing and go, man, I'm still doing a lot of this the hard way, but I know this makes the show come out every single week. The tools are the big thing, but as we were joking about beforehand, I'm pretty sure it's not the tools that are actually the hard part of doing a podcast, right? I mean, it's the commitment, it's the time, it's the passion, all those are really the harder parts. In those ways, I don't think that's probably ever going to change. I would agree that the landscape has completely changed, but some of the core things stay the same. Obviously the technology has changed because when we started 10 years ago or more, it was all about BitTorrent and RSS. Yes, the landscape has changed, but you're right, about the commitment, that hasn't changed. The amount of passion and time that you have to put into something stays consistent. The things that are different other than the technology is the ways that you build audience and grow audience and you interact with audience. And those present some unique challenges and we'll talk about those as far as how that has changed. Yeah. What would I say? I was just going to say, that is the single biggest thing that changed for me. It didn't make it harder, it made it easier. In 2005, I was sitting alone in a room with a microphone. Now, I'm still sitting alone in a room with a microphone, but I don't feel alone because I've got a live chat room while I'm doing the recording. And it's real stupid. I mean, they talked about dumbest things. Wait, you're talking about dumb things on IRC? I know. They talk about Barbie a lot. I'm not sure what happened but that to me made the job easier and so much more fun because the community stuff is crazy fun now. Well, it's interesting because it's almost two different questions. Is it easier to start a podcast? Yeah. It's so much easier because there's so many tools as you guys have outlined. But the real question is what do you want out of a podcast? Are you trying to make a living? Are you trying to make money? Are you trying to have a big audience? What is it that you're looking for by starting your podcast? And I think all of us can agree that it's very easy now to get a podcast, put it out there and have someone listen to it. That is much more simple than it has ever been because there are audience members. Let me actually just put up something that you said. Is it easier now than it was when you started to make a living doing a podcast or hard? Well, when I started, there were like, you know, a dozen people making a living doing a podcast. So, what year did you get in? 2005. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So, six, I guess, technically. But there are more people doing it but there's also a much bigger fragmentation. There's a bigger pie that's also smaller slices of that pie. So, I think there's probably more ways, more places that are willing to give money and more... Things like Patreon existed. Patreon is a huge thing. Right, right. But my God, if that existed 10 years ago, you know, my life would be completely different. But with thousands. Yeah. But also there are networks of people that whose whole job it is to find ads for podcasts. All those things that infrastructure didn't exist back then. But also, it's a much more crowded place. So, rising above just a land. Anything in that... Oh, that's the story. It's true. Yes. But it's always been true. Right? Of all entertainment. No, I've known about podcasts specifically. I remember... We can say like, oh, well we got in right place, right time, 2005. The same people can say like, oh man, I'm really glad I got in in 2010 before it blew up. Everyone thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks everybody thinks engaging and interesting and mostly ad-free. All of that stuff I think is is right for a much larger audience but I also think with that potential I think it marginalizes amateur voices more. I think that what you see in the top 200 podcasts now for the most part are famous people that are already famous from another medium, right? Because Leo has always been answering that question, how do you get a successful podcast? He says well first have a syndicated television show for five years and then... Yes and then you have these slipstreams like talking about murder, right? Then all of a sudden you can have literally no experience and have zero profile. Are you talking about like an MPR show? No, I'm talking about one of the headliners here at this show of my favorite murder which was you know, somebody who was a writer for like Mr. Show but by and large didn't have much of a profile. But if it hadn't been for the MPR podcast about murder, I'm not sure that would have been a hot topic. Sure, I mean like you know, the Discovery ID channel exists and then all these true crime things, true crime is something that's kind of come and gone from popular culture, I guess absolutely it will always give you an advantage to have specifically in where we are now in culture as the monoculture has completely shattered so anything that everybody or a larger group of people can touch back on and say, oh I remember him, he's the this guy, now he does this like right he's the fear factor guy, now he talks about doing DFT and better view of UFC athletes, right? That will always give you a leg up, right? But there is still I think a solid amount of podcasting that is what was kind of the initial promise that started to start a show, build an audience and Hey Kim, we'll make you famous that you can read, you too can read ads for Nature Box. As far as you know how the industry has changed and like new podcasts coming to garden huge audiences, one of the ones that I think about more recently is Hello Internet which comes out of CPG Grey which would who made a name as a YouTuber and then out of that sort of like also making podcasts and that the YouTube thing is like that short-form you know four or five minute catchy thing and then it's like oh well that's well you know you've got a ravenous audience that's looking for those things to take forever to produce. So Darren what you're saying is how to get into podcasting see also my panel on how to get into YouTubeing. No, but to that effect I will say that when people ask what I do and I try to say I'm a podcaster they give you this weird blank look and I'm just like I'm a YouTuber. And they're like oh you're a YouTuber. I don't even try. What do you do? What do you say? I say I host stuff. I talk about tech. I talk about entertainment. I say internet radio show. That's good. I'm noticing people don't do that cock in the head anymore and it was ever since what was it what was it called? Disclosed? Disclosed? And what was the original one? Since then people seem to know what a podcast is. I find that the second I use that that word podcast it's the conversation in a way. Right. In fact I remember it was actually just recently cleaning up Acrobat.org which is like a WordPress install from 2005 that I can't believe it's still going. But I found Healed Blog Role and in it was a list of all of the places that we sent people to back in 2005. And it was like techtainment.net and vidcast.org and both of those are great examples of they were literally a blog that would list the new video that just hit the internet. Oh man. Every time there was a new video on the internet. We put a comedy group that put our sketches on Adam Films because there was no YouTube. We put stuff on just aggregators. And at the time there was this big debate like oh what is this video that's a podcast is it? And then people are calling them vidcasts and IPTV and IPTV. Yeah now it's really just here to say I make videos on the internet. Hashtag old enough to remember. I have a question for you guys. Can I? It's wild. Kind of crazy. It's not on the agenda. So have you found that once you started doing podcasting you sort of pull out the word proliferated into other podcasts creating more of your own they sort of they seem to spawn each other? I think that's a question for Justin. I mean I don't know about you. Part of making a living in podcasting thing is you know making a lot of them. And also just figuring out you know just scratching that lotto ticket and seeing whether or not your guess on what the audience wants, the way that you're building your show, the people that are on the show with you, how the audience is responding, how long it is, whether or not all your guesses on that are right and they're never right. So then you got to change it a little bit, right? And then you see whether or not that's right, that's good, that's right. And then if it isn't then you got to shut it down. And sometimes that's a longer process and you wind up doing a lot of them or they're of a certain level of success and it just makes sense to keep doing it. But I would not be able to make a living if I didn't do the 7000 podcast that I do. I tell my wife a lot of little things add up to one reasonable thing. Yep. And that's how I make a living. But yeah, there is once you figure it out and also part of it's like, why would build this television station if we're not going to do a bunch of television shows, right? Like when you have the equipment and you have the know-how, I think absolutely. There is a drive to just keep going and making more. So I don't do it for a living but I just can't stop doing it. My shows get too big and then I break them off into more shows. So they just, I'm afraid that 10 years from now I'm going to have 20 shows. Because they just keep spawning. They show up by themselves. You're going to be like a crazy podcast lady. Yeah, like podcasts all over the place. No, my shows. Sometimes my shows crawl into the furniture. All right, Allison, let me ask you this and we'll go down the road here. What's the biggest change you've noticed from when you started and what is the biggest change you see happening going forward? The second part will be hard because I'm really bad at forecasting anything into the future. The biggest change for me was definitely the community stuff. We've, Steve and I have become friends with people all over the world. We've traveled to Europe to meet people, to New Zealand and met people because of the podcast. So I talk a lot to my human real life friends. They say, oh, well, the internet, you know, those aren't real friends. I say, well, no, I've gone to Ireland to meet them. I've gone to... No, sure, yeah. I've gone to all these places. And even the people I've never met in real life were really good friends with this guy, Kevin. He lives in Virginia. We know his children. We know what they like, what they do. We know his wife. We know where you live. We stalk him practically, but it is a real friendship. And that's something I just absolutely didn't see happening in that. As far as going forward, I am literally the worst predictor of the future in technology of all times. I actually said that you'd never need anything bigger than the screen in a 512K Mac. Okay? I'm sorry. Are you going to fill out? Are you going to fill out? And I also said you'd never need color. There's no reason for color. So I'm not going to take that second question. Okay. Good putt. Darren? I would say that when we first got into this, it really felt like a sea change of the origins, the passion of the internet was coming out in ways that we call all about the open web. So using a conscious distribution with Bitcoin and other open source technology, and using RSS feeds and things that really democratized the media. In fact, that was actually the big word back then, was the democratization of media. And we look at where it is now, and I see it's very difficult to try to like, you know, as hard back then to explain people. And I feel like there was an uptake in like RSS and such. And then there was like that drop off again where now it's like, oh wait, that isn't an app. And the app has become like the YouTube Reds of the world, or the Facebook walled gardens of the world where it's like, okay well, I'm going to go take a flight and we download some stuff on YouTube Red, rather than download it on an RSS feed with a podcatcher. It feels like there's much more walled gardens and less of the open web that started this. And do you think that gets more or less over the next five years? I think it gets more, but I think as unfortunate as it is that actually garners a larger audience. Just that ease of use factor. So I think there's still opportunities for, you know, a open web experience to harness that same magic that the Facebooks and YouTube's of the world have done. I just haven't seen it yet. I think for me the biggest difference, we kind of talked about this a little bit already, is Patreon, quite frankly. Because when you, you know, podcasts started and it was like, oh my gosh, anybody can do this. But there's really no way to make money unless you link together and figure out a way to sell ads. There was still an intermediation that happened, a walled garden, a gated thing that, there were gatekeepers that said you can't do this unless you can sell nature boxes for example. Exactly, and that specific problem I think really only got worse. Because once podcasting was new you had a lot of, you know, just like feelers of companies that were like, yeah, let's spend a little money on this. Let's just try to toss a little cash in there. And then it didn't quite pan out and it didn't grow fast enough and then that sort of came back. All of a sudden, this is what I like to call, everybody's listening to a lot of podcasts, the Netflix and Audible era. Oh yeah, absolutely. We sold Netflix like heck on TRS. Exactly, and the reason why was because there weren't a lot of for Microsoft, you know, a founding paper towel, kind of stuff that big companies that wanted to go do it. So the companies that were willing were either right in the demo. You are cutting edge, you are spending money on stuff, you have disposable income, and you're on the internet. And we are maybe going to continue a little bit, but we're really going to try and sell you on the future of this, which is you get a cut whenever anyone signs up. And that was low risk advertising that could be blanketed all over a ton of podcasts. And now you've seen a little bit as the pie has gotten bigger, you've seen a little bit more of at least new companies come in. I really thought it was going to go to somebody figuring out micropayments. That's what I thought was going to happen. So again, I'm wrong. But I thought somebody would come up with this way that we would all just get a piece of it with micropayments with that. Different colored ones. Yeah, I guess. All right. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm glad we've solved. We've charted the complete history and total future of the podcasting. Asimov would be proud and foundation style. We've totally nailed it. Let's go ahead and thank our amazing panel. Allison, Sheridan, thank you so much for joining us. Where would be fun? Thanks for letting me be on the show here. Podfeet.com is the best place to find them. Podfeet everywhere. Darren, kitchenware. Now that you're back, you're back to tracing around the globe, where do people find you? Hack5.org, as always. That's H-A-K, the number five. And we've got a big event coming up on the 20th of October in San Francisco. So if you're interested in any of that Hack5 gear, check it out. We'll find details on our social media. What's the event? What's the event? It's the Hack5 Gear event. The Gear event? What are you guys announcing? Bring some news. The packet squirrel. It's nuts. Snub it. I like it already. Jeff, just lit up like a Christmas tree after hearing that pun. Jeff, where would we be finding more of you? You could follow me on Twitter. I'm at Jeff Canada, which is spelled with two n's and one t. I do a lot of shows. The one I'll just mention right now is a comedy science show that you might like. It's only 20 minutes. It's called We Have Concerns. You can find it at wehaveconcerns.com. Hilarious show. Very, very, very good. Of course you can find me at Justin Arion on Twitter. I do too many podcasts. That's really my problem. I want to thank everybody for coming out and producing this show here at the LA Podcast Festival. And thank you to the LA Podcast Festival itself for hosting us a reminder that our email address is issued back at dailytechnewshow.com. We're live Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern time. That is, yeah, you can also find us at outkeepradio.com. And www.google.tv. I'm website is dailytechnewshow.com. And I'm just back on Monday. But I'll be broadcasting from Old Blighty with Sarah Lane Journey Online. Until next time, this is DTNS. This show is part of the FronPants Network. Get more at FronPants.com. That was fun. Thank you, Emily! Thank you! Now I'll see you're going to keep your whole life. You're going to ruin it. Okay, I have one other thing I need to test out. And people with the cameras can tell me, Ow, don't do that anymore. We're not. Ow. Hi, you're the camera guy. Yeah. Tell me. Too hot? Only if you want to see. I've got a lot of adjustments, so that's fine. Okay. Do you guys like dinner? Whatever makes video better, right? Right. A little dinner with that. It's not about me at all. That works. That works? Cool. And I hate bright lights. Awesome. I think from Chicago's, it's clearly quite neat sitting on Tom's chair, with Peter Bundes, fasting the power and glory of the DTNS throne. Oh, you got my phone? No. You can use my phone. Yeah. Look at our Mikayla 7 Plus. Yeah, I see it. I wonder what the password is though. The S1 password. I'm going to get you out of my network. Is this a good idea? Yeah, on Windows Box. And it's Windows. I don't even know what it is on my... My light, a little too bright for you. Hey, there's me. Hey, me. Sorry. Oh. Wait. There's no one else here. Oh, okay. That's okay. Pretty much it. The only thing on this thing is Photoshop. No one else is in here? Is there no audience? That's right. They said five o'clock on the website. Hey, we do have a laugh track though, right? I'll do it. Maybe they're keeping the big line at the door, and not letting them in. Yeah, it's going to be a dramatic moment for us, when they all flooded, looking for their tech news. Where's my tech news? What the f***? We did a live show at PAX last month, and we had this big auditorium, and I was sitting already up on the dais, and then comes in, he's like, I don't see a line. Every year there's a line, so they're like, is it okay to let people in? And we're like, okay. And three people come in, and they sit on the thing, and I start cracking my pants. And there's this big delay, and then the door's open, and then everybody came in, but those three people were like the special means. Yeah, the disability group. But we thought those were like the three people. It's funny, because I've heard this for a minute, and this is like my career's over. I guess that's it. I can't pack a panel of facts, but it's all up to us. My right, my right. I'm just going to start recording. Alright. It's a live. Oh, they say we're live. Are we live? Live. We have an audience. Should we do? Say something. Small for the camera. Something. Test, test. Something. I'm glad we're being amplified. What? Yes. You're so bad. How did you find this? We're all going to go around and say our names. I'm Allison, and I'm an actor. What is the topic here, bro? Tech news. Tech news. Unless you don't like that. Actually, you can tell us. We'll just be a piano. Who the hell are you, people? Exactly. We thought we were going to the starting of a podcast thing. That's not this one? No, that's across the hall. No, that's the next one. No. I know that. Oh, we know. That's for audience. Oh, my God. Where are we? We're on the spot. We're starting a podcast. Because this is your future. I got that. This is all recorded, by the way. It's a podcast festival. Thank you. Right there. That was awesome. That was great. What are we doing? Oh, we can just bullshit. Oh, we got no problem with that time. We're a professional. We'll start in like two minutes. Let's just clam up as soon as he's here. Well, I don't know, man. This crowd's getting a little fucking antsy. We've got to write it, man. I see what the language I'm screaming. Oh, I apologize. This crowd's getting really farting antsy. I like how you change the antsy as well. That's offensive. If we get one laugh, I think it's all worth it. If we can get one laugh from one person, who's the only person that you've set a minimum goal. And boy, how do you... Come on, take a minute. I don't even have the camera on me. Is it clear that literally nobody's on me? You know what, though? I'd rather have nobody than two people. Yeah, that's a good point. It's so much better having nobody. We don't have nobody, though. 100,000s watching online. Oh, yeah, 100,000s. Almost as if to prove the podcast media because it's better online. It is. It's like eight times as many. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I mean, the good news is everybody who's going to that other panel, they can get this show whenever they want. That's true. You can listen to it whenever you want. Whenever you want. Something like that. I'd rather have someone tell them how to make a podcast than to literally watch one being made. Being made. Maybe you're about ourselves. This is real. This will be the only, like, element I'm lying about. Of bitterness that I'm going to have to say. That panel is the same. Every year. Every time. At every convention. That's happened since Apple started listening podcasts. How do I do that? That same thing. I've done 7,000 of them. Apparently we should each do that. Give me the tweet version. Give me the 140 characters of How Do I Podcast. You need to make sure that you're having a good time. Talk about something you would talk about anyway. You got it. Better quality. Quality is important. Not video. Video is okay. This is where I get to be. The James Dean. Everybody's like, make sure that you're editing. Never edit. Better. Better not say. They hate that. Everyone's like, what? This is the kind of left word thinking that I've never heard on this panel. Whenever anybody asks me how to get into podcasting, I say, build a time machine and go back to 2006. I like to answer myself. Can we just open that door so they can hear a better version of that? What you need to know is the microphone is everything. You have to have the right microphone. You can use anything by the way. You have to pay for your microphone. Hundreds. You have to. Passion. I bought a road podcast for like $80. No, you're wrong. It's expensive. It's my experience with expensive microphones. Oh, sweet ads. It does. No, you rub it a couple of times. An old man podcast. You made it over. I'm not sure. I think we're good. Right when my bit was good. Yeah, I know. We're doing a replacement level. We have concerns here. You're no carbony. I know. You might be on that panel. He's on that panel. That's hilarious. I think nature added stuff to him and asked him to be on that panel. That's hilarious. I can't curse. Is he really here? You told me yesterday it was coming. Dirty SOP. This is no rest stop. These are wireless right? Yeah, we should just walk over there. See if he's out there. I haven't been on the show in six months. How do you do this? That's fine. Don't talk to each other. In three, two.