 Do you want to introduce yourselves from the main audience with these new people who may not know, who are few of our people? We can do that. Hi, I'm Ludeo. I'm the president of KDEV. Hello, I'm Alayesh. I'm the guy from the last presentation and I'm the vice president of the KDEV. Hello, I'm Albert. I'm the guy from a few presentations ago and I'm a board member. Hi, I'm Sandro. I'm a board member for the last 48 hours, I think, so you shouldn't ask me anything. I will probably let the guys answer your question. Actually, I'd like to ask you something. We're not that many, but I'm wondering how many are not members of KDEV. Can everyone with not a member of KDEV help? We shouldn't ask you questions. I would just like to ask you how did you feel? Be careful with what you say. Yeah, so that's been a very warmly welcome. We had some dinner and some food. Yeah, I'm still getting used to the things, so I don't have many experiences to share with you so far. But I'm very happy to have the chance to work with these guys. I've been having some conversations for some time for doing some things for KDEV in Brazil and in Latin America. So I guess that's going to run very smoothly. So besides being very nice and taking Sandro out for dinner, we already kind of drowned him in documents to read and accounts to get and so on. Yeah, he is through the worst, I guess. Really? For the AGM, it was 150 total active members. The active members actually decreased from last year, not by a lot. I'm not sure we have flooded it. I would have to flood it. I just wondered. Don't have the numbers. Let's get the numbers. Yeah, but that was voting people or not. I think we need to make sure everybody that needs to be on the EV is on the EV. It's not about the EV itself. It should reflect the community, right? It wouldn't make sense to grow the EV just because growing the EV doesn't have a purpose. I found the numbers and actually it was right. The total number of members is missing on most years. And what I know is that on 205, it was 123, 2012, it was 165, and now it's 153. So it's a bit like this. And personally, I think that having a lot of members is not required. The important thing is to having a lot of people who do things. And actually, the good question would be how many people we had back then and how many people we have now. And actually, it's something we cannot know because it's not countable, maybe, or maybe it is a metric expression. Hello. What is your responsibility of KDEV? Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you asked what the responsibility of the KDEV is. And how to become of a KDEV member. What's the responsibility of the members? Okay. So to stay an active member, you have to either attend the AG... Members of the board. Yeah. So you, as a member, you should attend the General Assembly, which is once a year before or during economy. You can send a proxy for that. If you don't do that twice in a row, then you become a passive member. Other than that, there are no strict requirements of anything you need to do. But in order to really move the organization and the KDEV community forward, it is, of course, important that our members take an active role and do things in the association. Like help us with organizing things and reporting things, this kind of stuff. To become a member, you find an existing member and see if they would like to propose you as a new member. Then you fill out a small survey that is available on ev.kde.org. And the member who proposes you then sends that to the membership mailing list where two people have to say, yes, I agree with this, this person should become a member. And then there's a vote. And if that is positive, you are a member. One question. And then you become famous and there's autographs. People cheer you on the street. And you get to decide for free software. And we teach you the secret handshake. Can we forget you? I am sorry. We will finish that after this session. Yeah. So what would you say is, except for this secret handshake? I would say that doing free software is more than doing the software itself. There are other aspects. And without an organization around it, it's basically impossible. Academy is impossible without the EV. Sprints are impossible without the EV. If people value those assets that the EV provides, I think they should join. Also, mailing list servers. All these kind of things without the EV are almost impossible to keep in a same way, I'd say. Also, it helps the EV being representative. Like the more people we have, the more points of view and different roles of those people we have. So it's not like we only do sprints for coders because there's no artist, right? So if we have more artists, then they would say, Yeah, we also need, like, the more people we are there, the better we are. So, yeah. I'm one of those non-EV members and I have another question. What I think the benefit of EV would be for me is information. And I'm not sure if you like this about the opening organizations that the EV should be. We will produce a resource software that, in my opinion, I know it's hard to organize academy and this stuff, and there's much to do, but still I see a reflection in the openness because I'm now a member of the community mailing list, those since last academy. And, for example, especially the point of academy is for me a point where there's very much, maybe not because of, because we wanted to keep him, but because it's much work. But, for example, for this year's academy there wasn't even an open call for hosts. There was, like, I think there could be announcements in the community mailing list, like, hey, let me give a bit, this city gave a bit. Last year I looked a bit at how good it is, how good it is, and how good it is. And they have them on the wiki and they have bits public, they have even information like how much it costs, how much it costs and such things. So, this year was a bit special in that regard. And there was no bidding process, so there were also no bids to be published. The reason for that is that we originally intended to do academy in Berlin with another partner. That took a very long time to get together a local team that had potential for that. And it was very important for that partner to have that in Berlin at a certain time. Ultimately way too late in the process this fell through, they bailed out. So, we, as the board basically had to do last minute talking to people, we know to get this event rolling. And I'm very thankful for the local team here who agreed to what was kind of crazy. So, yes, this shouldn't have happened again. In this case it was unfortunately a bit out of our hands. But I agree with you in the future that it should be better. Also, if you had been a member, you probably, you mentioned that the only benefit for you would have been having more information. I'm actually not sure we got the information earlier to the members. Your benefit wouldn't be having more information. I don't think we give much more information to the members that we give. Like almost everything we try, there is discussions, right? Those discussions are private, but the outcome of them. I mean, I'm biased, right? Because I know everything, so it's hard to me to know what other people don't know. But I have the feeling that we, at least by definition, we try to tell everybody. I mean, we might miss something. Yeah, but that was exactly my point. Could we move more discussions into the open? Discussions, information? And maybe before posting it to the emailing list, think about, is the secret information, could this be shared with the community mailing list? Actually, we are ready to do that. Maybe we should send more things to the community mailing list, but whenever there's something to be communicated, we always discuss. Maybe we can put it to the community mailing list. Well, when you say that we do, it's because we decided. And actually, if you ask a member, you will see that the traffic is not huge over there. And actually, mostly the traffic that it's on the membership mailing list, it's because there's things that we need to figure out, that we need to figure out as an organization, right? There was a discussion, I believe, about why it was exactly the same. And that's when the community mailing list, the community mailing list was created. And I've seen people writing things up on the TV list, which somebody says she's just being a community mailing list, and a TV list. So I think it's possible to be on the TV list, as well as in the... The type of discussion that happens in the community mailing list, which I feel shouldn't really happen there, mostly starts with the most honest plan and doesn't want to go public with it, because websites like that, for example, start running with it, and they want to avoid it. On the other hand, the discussions that fall are often... You might be in the middle of a place with a community mailing list. I'm just as talky as anyone, because I joined those discussions with Thurman Figure, but they shouldn't be there. And I don't have a solution for that either, but it's something that makes me pretty much all the time. Yeah, it's hard to draw the boundary. For example, the GNOME Foundation mailing list, it's all public, as far as I understand, but also as far as I understand, there is a non-official group of people that mail each other that happen to be on the foundation for the things that they don't want to go public. So it's the thing, right? You make everything public, and then it doesn't mean everything will be public anyway, because people will start mailing themselves. There was this... The GNOME board member was like, oh, I'm a new member. This is exciting. I'm sure we'll get access to all kinds of secret mailing lists, which was a bit embarrassing, of course, and I don't know what the block is for. So as a new board member of KDEV, you only get access to one secret mailing list, and that is the board mailing list. Clearly the secret handshake is not a mailing list. I don't know if it's public. There was a nonfigure or so. There was a mail. This project is no longer a KDE project. Could it maybe... If it's not some sort of information, because it would be interesting to know what a project has to do to not... So are you talking about what is this ring? Yeah. That basically wasn't discussed on a membership mailing list, as far as I know. So that is not an EV thing. Yeah. We're taking the breach in there, because I didn't find anything... I was looking at the project and it was like, what did it do wrong to get stripped of the status? I don't know what they did, but maybe someone else. As far as I know, they were not complying 100% with the manifesto. There were some issues that they didn't want to comply with, but the manifesto is the reason to stay and the thing to comply with. So the developer of Ring KDE is around. His name is Emmanuel. Something I don't remember. You can ask him, because he still likes us and doesn't like his previous employer, so we were not the bad people in this thing. The one thing that makes KDE KDE is that if you've got KDE command access, you can work on any project access, which gets impossible if the source code is not home in the KDE infrastructure. So if you want to have KDE project, no one has to forgive you. There's many projects who have clones on GitHub and... The question is, what about clones? There's some projects that have clones. We don't have a GitHub police anyway. As I understand, the issue with the brain is that the primary problems in GitHub and in a cloud in the KDE service are rather than the other way around. It's where you make your releases from. And they weren't willing to change that. The KDE... The community report is not a problem at all. So I wanted to get a notification because everybody asks this to me. And KDE has to work on KDE. But it is not. I don't think that the question... I don't think that the question was whether it was a problem or not. He was just complaining that he didn't know about the backstory. So that entire thing happens basically with releases from KDE? I used to follow up with that. I mean, I understand why we do want to know. I wanted to know. And everybody wanted to know. But there are some things that maybe make sense, not saying we kicked out someone. Let's imagine someone does sexual harassment. You want to keep it as... Maybe you don't want to... The people need to know the basis. Sure, it's not a good comparison. It is similar. So they broke the manifesto, which is breaking our laws. So to know what does it take to be a KDE project? Yeah. So I have to say that I am not KDE. I need to work on it. And I think about this. Actually, I find this a bit boring, that kind of the... The judges are sitting in the assistant team and they're just taking decisions and nobody knows about it. I think transparency in these things is really important, especially if it's about our identity and who is part of our community and who not. I think we should really try to not go overboard with the manifesto as some kind of law and some kind of people starting to make judgments based on this perceived law and throughout our project. And with this I would really love to see some mechanisms which make sure that we have some more information and communication about that. So that's... I'm not sure who and how this should happen, but in the end I think that's something where EV and maybe the board can set an example and set expectations so that things like that happen in more transparent way. So I think that's a problem for us as a community. Well, maybe it's not about transparency per se. It's more about processes, right? I mean, the process needs to be transparent. Maybe the outcome doesn't really need to be all that transparent. But I agree that Cisamin probably has a lot of power nowadays and it's not only on these objectives. I was talking to a Cisamin person a couple of days ago and yeah. So it's definitely theirness to be more communication in some areas. But that's why we're here, right? We need to trust our Cisamin because they do have great power. They have great power whether they choose to administer or not, which is why the blockage of health is hilarious because those things were all put about. But it's not about trust. It's about sharing the weight. Nobody is asking anything. I'll just say something. So there is lots of KDEV members here. I'd like to encourage them to run for the fort. It is a very important place. We'll eventually have people that, whose terms run out like mine next year. So it is good that people think about their future on the EV. Do you plan to run again? It's one year in the future. Why not? Give him that microphone please. It was not clever, David. Let it down. It's cheeky and low. So who is going to apply for the grant? Anyone? Well you can think about it. It's kind of fun, isn't it? You don't agree? I think you're right about it. At least for a part of a second, you are seeing yourself back to the world with our cigarette handshake. Of course. We can end on a fluffy question. What's your favourite thing about KDEV? KDEV, we have a nice desktop. I'm sorry. KDEV, of course, the people is, but everyone says that. What I like about KDEV is that I can do my thing and reach people. It makes an impact. I think this is awesome. It's impossible to do something like that anywhere else so easily and with such good company. It's the place to do things and have an impact. Even if it's just on some gigs, or maybe not that gigs, but still other people. It's really cool. Comparing to some other communities I'm a part of, I think it's most amazing that at our size we managed to have a relatively diverse and different community and still managed to have useful conversations without screaming at each other. I think that's amazing. I have to say something. Let's handle it. You can think about it. The coolest thing about KDEV is that people are more often insured for that, but I think that's also a great opportunity to make you often a little bit outside of your comfort zone for having a new challenge and just to keep yourself pushing yourself a little bit each day. It's a very cool place for learning and for sharing experience to leave the benefits of free software to all parts of the world. It's just a whole something I just thought about. The learning part is awesome and it's not only the learning part people will let you do things. I remember back when I was young there was this KPDF thing and it needed porting to XPDF3 and I sent an email saying yeah, I'll do it, how hard can it be? And nobody said no, you're too new here because I was a newbie back then and it took me months of holidays to do it, but I did it eventually. There's this sure you can try and nobody will shut you down and that's pretty neat.