 Hi, how are you guys doing? Can I get another woo? OK, cool. So hello, the people at the conference, which is you. And I can actually see you guys. I don't know what Ben was talking about, but yeah. Anyway, so actually, I was talking to Ben last night at dinner, and we were having this conversation. And he said, oh, well, I'm speaking in the morning. And I said, oh, well, I'm speaking in the afternoon. What are you going to talk about? Because maybe you can say stuff, and then I can build upon that and say some other stuff. And it will all like flow together really nicely. And he said, yeah, yeah, sure, great, OK. And so like, so what are you talking about? And he said, I'm going to tell them that we won. And I said, OK, cool. And he said, what are you going to talk about? And I said, funny hats. So I said, OK. So yeah, I guess before I jump into anything, I find it better to start with I've got lots of things to show you up there. But maybe I can show you some things here in physical space first. So if I could ask my two lovely assistants to come to the stage for a second. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so you can come this way. Be good. So yeah, so I do many things as was described before I got up here. I'm an artist, a designer, a technologist. I teach some stuff. And I make things. I'm also a maker. All these terms come with a lot of baggage. So I'm just like a girl who makes funny hats. But yeah, so just to start with, this is part of a series of hats I've been working on recently. And they're really dead simple. So they have some really basic design constraints. I'm going to have to ask you to remove your hat. Thanks. But basically, they're just made out of this simple pink felt. And the one characteristic of them is that they're all malleable in some form. And so basically, when you put them on, do you mind? Yeah, something like here. Yeah, so they've got these different shapes. And so the thing about these hats is that you can kind of shape them so they're sculptable. So you can get these kind of effects. Like you can get a little bit bashful. You can also, oh, maybe if you have really alert hearing, something like that. Or you can go for a really sort of suave asymmetrical look. I don't know, something kind of fashion-y. That could get really, you know, we could get a little twirl in there, accent. Yeah, so anyway, and then just another version. So there's lots of these hats out there made out of the simple dimension of pink fabric or mature wire and nothing else. So this one's more, it's got a bit more dimension to it. And so for you, with the sun, maybe I should wear your hat. So yeah, with this, this sort of has a whole other thing going on, right? Because we can get really far away from each other and still have this kind of experience going on. And so this can kind of leave a trail behind. Like Hansel and Gretel. Or it can actually sort of start to enter and leave the personal space and start to go out into social space. So what's fun about these hats is not just wearing them, but also manipulating them. And as you can see over here, like, this guy can't see what he's doing. You know, like, look at that. But what could happen is, well, first of all, this can kind of go over here. And you guys can be friends. And what they can start to do is actually start manipulating each other's hats. So maybe you can help them out with that little do up there. And so they can actually start sort of manipulating and sculpting what each other is wearing, which is something we don't normally do. But it causes all these kind of interesting social interactions. So now they're tangled up in each other's clothing. Yeah, thanks, guys. So I am interested in, oh, someone's phone is up here. Cool. I'm interested in people. I'm interested in the relationship between people and the world. I'm interested in the relationship between people and technology. And I explore that in a lot of different ways, which you'll see throughout the things that I talk about here. And so this kind of track in the conference is new technology. But I have to tell you a secret, which is that I don't actually, the technology that I use in my work, and I do use a lot of technology. But none of it's actually that new. But what I bring to the table is new ways of approaching technology and ways to think about how we can have new relationships with technology. And in the sessions that follow, you guys will see really deep dives into various facets of new and emerging technologies. And then I thought this is, I have a bit of a cough. So if I kind of disappear under the table coughing for a minute, just kind of introduce yourself to your neighbor. But I was drinking this tea this morning. And the little tea tag said, only he who knows the destination knows the way. And it reminded me the danger of talking about the future. Just because it's like, I don't know what's going to happen. So it's really hard for me to talk about how we're going to get there. But I'll try anyway. So yeah. So a lot of the things that I make fall into this category of what I call inquisitive devices. So these are devices that ask questions. These are devices that exist not simply to meet a need, but rather to kind of explore device space and explore how devices exist in our lives. And some of these are highly technical, and some of them are very conceptual. So hopefully you guys can join me on this journey. So like I said, I make funny hats. I also make lots of other devices. This is me with a lot of the things that I make. Those two I'll explain in a second. This one, the ones on the end I'll explain that. One is something called an inflatable heart, which is for personal expression. And the one second in from the right is a gut listener, which is pretty self-explanatory. So I like to use a variety of tool sets. I communicate through everything from radio transceivers to funnels and plastic tubing. And just for me, it's really about exploring concepts of technology and taking ideas and putting them into physical form. So what is it like to take a physical idea and hand it to somebody else and see what they do with it? This is an example of a hat called a muttering hat. And it's basically about the idea of what if you could liberate the voices in your head? What if you could take the sound of your thoughts and just tug them out and give them to someone else to listen to? Wouldn't that be nice to do that in an unmediated way? Similarly, this one is called the talk to yourself hat. And it's actually really helpful. Like just as we are storing parts of our brain and our cell phones and we're these cyborgs, talking out loud is still helpful. So what this does is it enables you to speak out loud but still have a private conversation with yourself. So I'm interested in how devices mediate our relationships and how they affect the way we communicate and the way we relate to the world. This one's called the discommunicator. And it's a tool meant for arguments. So basically what it does is it takes two people in a heated moment and it locks them in eye contact. So they have this kind of emotional exchange but it actually absorbs the words that are being spoken. So you don't hear two days later, I can't believe you said that. So yeah, that sort of thing. And then I also think about ways in which we relate to the natural world. So this piece is called the glacier embracing suit. Hopefully all of you have one at home. It is made out of a heat reflective material and it serves to mediate the difference in temperature between the human body and glacial ice. So basically it offers people an opportunity to kind of shift their relationship with glaciers and to kind of shift their perspective a bit and have a different type of encounter. So yeah, and then there's the plants. So I've been working on this project for a long time called Botanicals and I can show you a little video just to give you a sense of what it's about. Today's plants are abused, neglected, and misunderstood. Modern life and an increasingly technological and automated society leaves little room for our leafy green friend, the plant. Oh, poor little guy. An elite group of scientists have had hard work conducting experiments to right this wrong and create a better life for our pollen pals. Aha, here's a bright idea. Quick everyone to the lab. Moisture probes inserted in the soil transfer conductivity information by a transistor eye circuitry to a series of microprocessors were sent serial information by a gigahertz radio waves to mainframe servers and connect to a global network of bi-directional audio communication units. And it makes that telephone. Cuban oregano, I am in need of watering. Could you please water me? I heard my soil is quite, quite... The new system is Botanicals and let's plants call for human health. These friendly flora can't be neglected but you won't only hear from them when they're glum. Botanicals plants mind their bees and queues politely phoning in their fangs whenever caring hands have helped them out. Our lives are getting better. Thanks, scientists. You're making it. Botanicals, the plants have your number. So yeah, so my plants make phone calls. And yeah, I mean, this project started out of a place where we were kind of thinking about how to reconnect with nature in various ways. And the technology that's involved in it isn't that terribly complicated but it was really about just a different application of that technology for a different type of connection and awareness. So when originally we had this installed in a public space and it would call a public phone around all these plants and so someone walking through the space might hear the phone ring and pick it up and they'd hear something like this. Hi, this is the IV. I'm desperately in need of a drink. Do you think you could find it in your heart to maybe water me a little? Thanks. And this was meant as a feedback system so the plants would give you feedback depending on how you cared for them so that you could actually learn to care for them better and eventually potentially not need the system. So if you watered them too much, they would let you know, be like, hey, back off a little bit, buddy. If they watered you not enough, they'd let you know as well or if you watered them just right, they'd say something like this. Ooh, thank you for watering me. That felt like a fresh spring rain. So yeah, and we really loved working with the telephone and the voice in this project but there were some challenges with that and when we came to want to distribute the project to a wider audience and get more people using it, we wanted to simplify it in a way and so we ended up switching from the phone to Twitter which was great because then we weren't running complicated things on web servers that people would need to have running. We could just get them set up with the hardware but it was interesting because it really opened up all these questions about what does it mean to have a houseplant on Twitter and the result for me, the result for me was that my Pothos plant ended up with like over 3,000 followers. So lesson number one is that your plant is more popular than you are. But yeah, I mean this was really kind of just an exploration to see what happens when we use these tools in ways that they're non-intended and what are the potential applications moving beyond that. So with this project it kind of splintered off in a lot of directions. Actually the projects stayed the same but it just showed up in these kind of different venues which I think brings up interesting questions about where technology lives now and that's something I'll kind of come to again and again. But we developed this into a DIY kit so that other people could use it. So we sell it through this manufacturer Spark Phone Electronics so you can buy your own botanicals kit and get your plant on Twitter. But the other thing that was interesting was it also ended up in the Museum of Modern Art. So it's like 99.95 on the internet, Museum of Modern Art Permanent Collection. So it's kind of interesting that gulf between is this art, is it technology, is it design, is it a consumer product? And I think there's a lot of people playing in this space right now. So I'll talk about that a little bit more later. And I do a lot of, aside from making funny hats, I also do a lot of work with different types of technology in developing DIY tools and I'm very involved in the open source hardware movement and this is just an example of another type of board that I worked on and this thing, which you guys may not recognize, but it's a breakout board for a radio transceiver intended to help you install a radio transceiver in your clothing. So basically it's a gadget that can help your clothing communicate, potentially with another piece of clothing, potentially with a computer, potentially with a broader network. And the reason why I like making tools is because it opens up spaces for dialogue. So with tools come other projects and come new kind of viewpoints on how technologies can be used in different ways. So yeah, so this was really about how clothing can communicate and resulting projects had this really big span, like some projects using that board were very performative, like this one is a dance costume, this one is an audio controller for stage performance. On the right is a pair of networked pajamas so that a guy living in New York could have communication with his wife living in Tokyo and their sleep patterns, even though they were offset, could be communicated to each other throughout the day. So just thinking about how these tools can lead to different outcomes. So in addition to talking plants and funny hats, I also have a job. I'm a professor at the Ontario College of Art and Design in Toronto and so I'm a bit far from home right now. And I am not from there originally, I'm from the States and I moved up there about three years ago to start some new programs. And so this was all part of this thing called the Digital Futures Initiative. And so it's really looking at how to connect artists and designers with innovation in technological development. And what role can artists and designers play in that? So we just launched a graduate program last year and we're launching an undergraduate program in a few weeks actually and there's been a lot of stuff going on there. So my primary area of teaching is physical computing and wearable electronics. So what's that? Does anyone else do wearable electronics out there? So physical computing, who has heard the term physical computing? Okay, who has not heard the term? Okay, so this is a book that came out a while ago, I think 2004, something like that, by these guys, Dana Sullivan and Tom Aigo who I actually studied with when I was in grad school. And they said that physical computing is really about how humans communicate through computers and about the relationship between humans and computers and sort of moving towards a more human-centric computing model. So the one thing I really like about this book is this diagram or this little illustration here. And this is called How the Computer Sees Us. And so what it is is it's like a little finger. So this is thinking about traditional computers. It's got a little finger because it's got a keyboard and mouse interface. It's got ears because it presents you with audio and eye because it presents you with visuals. And beyond that, this computer, as it stands right now, doesn't care what else I'm doing. If I start doing some crazy dance in front of this, it's not really gonna know that. If I start sobbing, it's not gonna know that. It's not really a super-sensitive interface. And it's not really super-concerned with my humanity. So what they say in the book is like, okay, we should think about how computers see us and how do we want computers to see us. And so since this book was published, a lot's changed, like all these different devices have come out where we get to shake things and stroke things and kind of dance around. But it's still a relevant point to consider. So yeah, so in terms of what I teach, we actually, there's one really common platform that we use, and this is one of many, but this one's called Arduino. How many people have heard of Arduino? Okay, cool. From here? Yes, yes, it comes from about five countries and this is one of them. Yeah, so Arduino is a prototyping tool for electronics. And basically what it is is a really stripped-down computer. And it's got inputs and outputs and you can decide how it's gonna work. And so what I do is I teach art and design students how to work with these different types of technologies and how to hook it up to the internet and how to hook it up to sensors and different things like that and see what they wanna make with it. And yeah, so they talk about Arduino as being, it's a hardware platform, it's also a piece of software. The Arduino guys talk about it as being a community as well, that's very accessible. And I like to talk about it as a canvas, perhaps because I'm within the art context, but as a canvas for computing. So with this thing, how can we think about how computing can sensibly and elegantly be incorporated into different aspects of our lives? Because when we start back from the beginning and build back up again a bunch of different times, we can see all the different form factors that it can take on. So yeah, what can happen when you start from scratch? And specifically because I work within the wearables context, I use a lot of these different e-text dial tools that incorporate soft conductive materials so that you can use fabrics and threads that can conduct electricity so that you can make circuits that are more comfortable to wear. So we use these tools and we really think about it within a body-centric context. And my students come out with a bunch of crazy projects which I'll show you some of them. This is an example of one, excuse me. It's interesting to think about. So some of them also start from a conceptual place and this project is basically about how do you disappear? And so it's a standard white dress shirt that can transform into something that can allow you to disappear in a white room. And so through these different little wings that are attached, Shannon can actually hide herself in a corner. So though this isn't actually a piece of technology, it asks an interesting question of like, how do we not be somewhere that we are? And this is another piece by my student, Alex. This is a working prototype. But it's this weird kind of exoskeleton thing that she was really adamant about making. And I said, Alex, why do you wanna make this? And she's like, I'm really interested in this idea of how external technology feels to us and how it feels like this add-on, like this exoskeleton, that sort of thing. So she was kind of exploring in that way. This is a project that this guy Mitch was working on and it actually might be helpful for a context like this and it's called the Small Talk Destroyer. So it's this tie and you can actually put the tie in your mouth and it has a loud speaker that will declare all of the small talk you have to deliver in a very short amount of time very quickly so that then you can move on to the next part of the conversation. So you can get quite aggressive with it. But maybe we should bring some into this context and then we'll move beyond the, that's interesting part of the conversation. So some of these students, I get students from a lot of different programs. Some are industrial designers or environmental designers. Some are textile students. Some are jewelry makers. So they come in with these really developed skill sets and then they put them to work. So sometimes we get works that are very aesthetically driven. So this is like machine embroidery combined with LEDs. Sometimes they're more about performance. So taking something like a force sensing resistor, incorporating it with felt and creating a mask that can blush. So Rachel does a lot of work with incorporating electronics with felt and so she does, this mask can blush. This one is actually capable of blinking. And yeah, just they take on, because of the material, they take on this whole other type of characteristic that wouldn't be the case if she were using different materials. A lot of these things play out in kind of a social context. So my aunt was in my class and we were going around talking about final projects and said, okay, man, what's your final project gonna be? And she's like, well, I'm pregnant. And we're like, oh. And so she wanted to make, she was in Toronto and her family was in Israel and she wanted to make something so that her mom and her other relatives could actually feel her child kicking as it developed. So she was creating a remote interface for that. In terms of thinking about new interfaces, this project is called the Kegel Organ. And I don't have the video to show you guys, but for those of you who know what your Kegel muscles are, this is an interface for them. So basically you can play different tunes. You can play Mary Had a Little Lamb with your Kegel organs. This project's called the Stock Market Lingerie. So Erin is really obsessed with data feeds and incorporating data feeds into clothing. And so she was reading a study that there's a correlation between arousal and stock market variations. And so she made this piece of lingerie that as you unclip the back of it, it will read off different stock market quotes. Excuse me. This is another piece of her. It's called the Earthquakes Kurt. And it's constructed of debris and it kind of shimmies every time there's an earthquake anywhere in the world. So it has a different magnitude depending on how severe the earthquake is. So something that's location-based but suddenly becomes ambient when the data is abstracted. And some of these projects are very kind of need-driven. So this is a concussion helmet by Michael Vaughn and basically intended for hockey players. And there's this problem when hockey players get hit in the head. They don't know whether or not to take them out of the game. And so this is a sensor-related helmet that actually detects how hard someone's been hit on the head and provides an indication as to whether or not they can keep playing. So yeah, so using these really basic electronic tools, these guys make all these different crazy projects. And it's interesting for me to see these tools that work in the hands of creative people. And I think this is something that needs to be considered as technology progresses and as it develops. And whenever I'm talking about this stuff, I work with physical computing, I work with wearable tech, and I just, I really like to address some of the reasons why bodies matter. And the answer is pretty simple. Everybody's got one. So I can see, unless there's something I can't see, pretty much all of you guys have bodies in the audience. I don't think anyone doesn't. If anyone doesn't, I guess they can't raise their hands, but anyway. But this is kind of our universal interface for the world. This is how, this is our primary sensor. And through this vessel is where we experience pretty much everything that we experience. It's also a really fun space to work in because they're kind of intense, like bodies are sexy and gross and stimulating. This is a really charged atmosphere to work within. Excuse me. And in my classes, we always kind of talk about this concept of where our bodies end and where the world begins. So in terms of working on developing technology, there really is this potential for cyborgism because we have this kind of generous sense of, you know, our own embodiment. And so this is a diagram from a paper by Francine Gomperle and a couple other people from the late 90s about design for wearability. And excuse me, they talk a lot about different, you know, like different criteria for designing for wearability. But I just, I love this image because this image talks about the fact that we've got this kind of like layer of space that on our bodies. We have this area where we're able to take, you know, take external objects and make them feel like they're part of ourselves. Like we aren't particularly bothered by our clothing. We're not particularly bothered by a small backpack if we, you know, wear it right. It starts to feel like part of our body as we move through time and space. So in terms of designing new technology, this is a really potent area to work with in because you can almost, it becomes really intimate and you can almost become a part of someone. So yeah, I mean, I work a lot in the social context. My lab is called the Social Body Lab and we're really interested in the social implications of wearable tech. And it's a really interesting moment because our clothing is starting to talk. It's starting to share data. We're starting to have sensors embedded in different things that we wear. Excuse me. Currently, it's primarily, you know, in these kind of personal logging devices, you know, for walking and sleeping and that sort of thing. But it's interesting to think about where this data goes because suddenly, you know, you can be many miles away from someone and not even be that close to them and get information about their whereabouts or about, you know, things like their weight, you know, and get this kind of, you know, relationship with their physicality. So yeah, I was in Gothenburg the other day visiting some friends and my friend David is working on his PhD at the University of Gothenburg and he's focusing on explanations of algorithms that are inherent in textiles. And then my other friend Angela is a fashion designer who works with embedding electronics and clothing. And I was talking to Angela over coffee in the morning and I was like, you know, like, what do you think Angela? Like, what is the future of wearable tech? Like, where is this all going? And she said, you know, it's weird because there's this big difference between what we think we want and what we actually want. And we got into this big conversation about how they were really obsessed with Tron when it first came out. And there's all these kind of sci-fi ideas about, you know, like, what we want to be like in the future. And wouldn't it be cool to be able to be dressed like these characters in the movie and what would that be like? But it was interesting because it brought me back to an aspect of Angela's own work which I think is really important in terms of thinking about the future of technology. And that is subtlety. So technology and subtlety don't often go together but I think they should. And I think this is not something, you know, this is an example of, this is a bicycle jacket which you can't see too well here, but it has, it's a well-designed fashion piece that has lighting incorporated into it. But, you know, when the lights aren't on, it's very subtle, you can't see that it's there. So this has to do with just simple lighting but I think it's a really worthwhile design principle for technology in general. And I think subtlety can go in a lot of different directions like not just physical design but also like, you know, what kind of impact this thing has on the world, what kind of resources it uses, you know, where does it go when it dies, that sort of thing. And so this friend of mine and I actually co-started this event called the Toronto Wearables Meetup which, you know, we had, it's been going for several years now but it's kind of about looking at, you know, the kind of different intersection fields that are caught up in wearable technology and it's pretty fun because there's just, you know, I'm just gonna skip over some of this but we end up in a room with people from lots of different universities and you just end up in these conversations between people from very different fields. So like someone who's the CEO of a company that does stock control computing with somebody who handles technical textiles or something like this where it's an industrial designer who makes cufflinks that glow like the power symbol on your Macintosh or, you know, a performance artist who like buries herself in dirt. But, you know, I think these intersections are really interesting and when these people get in the room together they have really interesting conversations and they have quite relevant views on what the future of technology is. So with that I kind of asked the question of like who are the new technologists? Like are you guys the new technologists? I don't know. As in the train station the other day and I was just looking up all the tech magazines and we could spend a whole like 90 minutes deconstructing this but, you know, it's interesting on the wired, one of the wires, I think it was wired US, they had the here come the DIY drones article. And I think the subtitle was why should the military get to have all the fun? Just a good question. But it does bring up this interesting point of, you know, there is this whole kind of DIY and maker revolution and people are making stuff more themselves and a lot of this has an impact on where technology is going like people are able to lead through making and it's quite interesting. And I think it is also interesting to look at the artists and the designers. This is that show that was in the MoMA last year which I think Pella Antonelli talked about here last year. You know, artists and designers and architects like they are really coming into the mainstream of thinking about, you know, what should technology be? Where should it go? I think one of the biggest keys to figuring out the future of technology and new technology is actually getting over technology. It's kind of like when you're trying to date somebody and you get super keen and you're just like, you know, you're so overeager that you kind of scare them away. Hi, hi. Because the point of technology, like technology for technology's sake sucks. I'm just gonna say that. But technology for a particular purpose or application and keeping the goal in mind, that's when good things come out. So it's kind of getting over like the techno buzz, the techno high I think is one of the main things to moving on. And I think approaching technology with criticality is also really significant in terms of like asking good questions. And this doesn't mean not doing things. Like you can make the things that you think should be made. Sometimes that's really good. Sometimes that's a really healthy exercise is to like make the thing that shouldn't be made and then get rid of it, get it out of your system. But just kind of like asking lots of questions and sort of challenging the authority that technology tends to have. And I think the things that can kind of be better considered in technological devices are the really sticky, icky, like weird human things that are harder to talk about, like longing and need and want. Like how does a computer understand those things? So yeah, so just a couple takeaways of things that I think about when I'm designing new tech. One is that we as humans want to touch things. We are physical beings, we like to touch things. This is just an example. This isn't even the project itself but this guy Tom Gerhardt made this mud tub which is basically like a mud interface for a computer. So you can, it's a gestural interface in a tub of mud. But these people look so happy. And yeah, and there's no reason why interfaces need to be cold or slick. They can be extremely tactile. This is an example of some variable resistors that are felted where you can tug on them or stroke them. Like a pink pointed sensor, like that's an amazing interface. So with a lot of the work that we do in my classes, you just end up with these signs on projects like touch me or wear me. It's really about this kind of tactility. Another thing that I'll say is that we want to touch each other. And within wearable tech, there's all these projects that are about remote touch. This is an example from 2006, but it's the hug shirt where you kind of like hug yourself and it sends a text message to the person that you're trying to hug. And it's just, it's not the same thing. But if technology can start to crack these kinds of problems, like how do we touch each other? That can be a pretty exciting thing because like this and skin are like two completely different things. And the last thing I'll say is we do want to be together. And I think understanding that is extremely important in terms of thinking about where technology will go from here. There's all these things, it's really easy to get one step or two steps or three steps into understanding why we like being in the same room together. But there's so much beyond that. It's so utterly complex. So after the last talk, this is what this room looks like without you guys. It's a little bit different. And I sat here for a while after you all left. And it was interesting because it got really quiet. But the thing I didn't think about was it got really cold. So all the body heat left the room and the temperature of the room literally changed. And we don't think about those things. We don't think about what it means to be sitting next to someone, a perfect stranger and to feel they're warmth, but what that experience of being co-located feels like. So I think that's where we should aim in terms of the future of technology is creating technological systems that are able to understand stuff like that. What does it mean to be in a room together? That's all, thanks. That's fantastic, we have some questions. Let's do questions. Yes, wow, that was really interesting. And again, like the Twitter feed is going like, that's what we're doing on Twitter right now. Very positive, but there are some questions. The most important of which is even though there seem to be a number of people who know about Arduino here, there are also quite a lot of people who say, did she say open source hardware movement? That sounds fantastic, what is that? So let's do that one, what is that? Oh, it's a movement, it's also an organization. So it started, I guess just about three years now, maybe two, there was the open source hardware summit, I mean, it's been going on much longer than that, but there was the open source hardware summit in New York City at the New York Hall of Science. And basically a group of people got together to talk about like, okay, the open source software movement has been around for a long time. How do we deal with all these physical things? And so as a result of that summit, a sort of draft was circulated of the definition of what is open hardware. And since then, whole organization and criteria and certification has developed around that. So basically it's about sharing plans. So like if you're doing a circuit board, you publish your circuit board files in a certain way and share them and they can be modified legally in different ways. If you're building like a physical object, you might like, if it's a 3D printed object, you might publish the STL files or something, but it's sharing plans for physical things so that they can be built upon. Okay, as somebody who doesn't really know this, let's see if I get this straight. So it means that we used to have an idea of inventions, like physical inventions, where innovation was very much tied to patent processes, especially in the United States. So there was an idea that even if you have like a germ of an idea, you need to get patents very fast and protected, yes. And this is the very opposite of that. It's the opposite. And both things have their relevance, but there's something to be said for, we're all really busy. And making money isn't the only objective. It's a significant objective, but it's not the only objective. And you can make money with open source hardware, actually, but it's about what if, instead of everyone starting from scratch, what if they built off of each other and stood on each other's shoulders and got a lot further? So then how about, I guess there's an aspect to this, would be the democratization of, well, you also talked about making. So when you say making, I hear the capital M there, what does that mean? I guess that refers to, I mean, there's this kind of maker movement, which is not new, but it's kind of like newly branded with the advent of Make Magazine and basically DIY enthusiasm of people wanting to learn how to make things themselves, how to start from scratch. But it's not about knitting and baking, it's about, It can be, it depends on who you talk to, there's a kind of different, some people think about it, just as like making and hacking with an Arduino, but I think generally it has a much broader, so it can be knitting, I don't know. So when your students come, when you get your students in there, they come from all of these different disciplines. I mean, again, trying to imagine, if I entered your classroom, I'd be terrified. You say, I need to build technology, which is meant to be like a really specialized field and also I don't know how to code and these are meant to be like impenetrable fields and if you didn't get in there when you were 15, like it's too late. Is it too late? Not at all. No, no, I mean, I take like, they do get scared and, you know, I get these like emails from frightened students on the first week of class and they're like, I don't think I could do this. And I'm like, just stick it, you know, whatever. But, sorry, I'm like losing my words. But they, you know, it's easier than you think. Sometimes it's about just changing one's mindset because these are really basic tools. These are tools that kids learn, you know, when they're eight years old or something like that. They're not that complicated and it's just a matter of sitting down with an open mind, you know, with either a tutorial instruction set or, you know, someone like a teacher or workshop leader who can explain to you how it works. But, you know, I could sit down with you for, you know, an hour and we could get an LED blinking and you could start to understand what a variable is and it's not that tough. Should we be teaching these to kids? Yeah. How small? I know they're educators here, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, yeah. All right, yeah. Let's do audience questions. I understand that the audience questions can go in all kinds of directions from this talk and that's fine, that's great. I'd love to. Good, another way of doing this even so that the internet can hear you as well is wave your hand and we'll bring you a microphone. We should have two runners and two microphones now. Over here. Hi, I'm Neta Norma from Media Day in Gothenburg. Hi. Do you see an increased interest in the bodily senses in the way we gain knowledge of the world via our bodies and what will that take us in that case? You do that. Sorry, the bodily sound system? The senses. The same way we gain knowledge via other things than hearing and seeing the other senses in the body. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I think it's just something that we're becoming more cognizant of as we take on these devices that are meant to replace us in a sense, like when we have a computer that's meant to be a proxy for us. For instance, if someone's, excuse me, watching on the live stream and they want to look over here but obviously they don't have control over that camera so you start to just get a sense of the very simple things that being in a place and your first-in-experience come with, like all those kind of freebies of being able to look around and hear subtle sounds and that sort of thing. Oh my God, I just understood what you just said. So if we'd have a 360 camera that would record all directions at the same time and then each of you would get to decide where to aim there with vision, right? For instance, yeah. Now my mom's doing it, yeah. Okay, okay, more. Right here, yes, microphone. Should be brisk with the microphone, brisk. Kate, thanks for that. I just wanted to start by saying that you can learn physical computing here in Malmo. I thought so. David Corayas, who's one of the designers or the designer of Arduino, is based here at Malmo University and we would love to create some sort of ongoing exchange between our hackathons at Staplebuckin, at Medea, at Malmo University and your students. That'd be awesome. So that would be really nice but my question for you, having taught embodied interaction myself and being aware that you're even doing so much of this for so many years, do you think students' experimentation has taken on a different flavor in recent years? And I'm wondering if you could say whether there's a bit of a sea change in what they're expecting from their bodies and also from their technologies. Interesting, it's a leading question, but. No. Do you? Do you? Okay. Yeah. It's been interesting for me. I mean, one thing I'll say is that recently, within the last few years, I started teaching undergrad, which I hadn't done before. I'd always taught graduate studies and working with younger people for me was really eye-opening in terms of their expectation for things to just work in the lack of patience. But I don't know what, beyond that, like in what recent years, I can repeat back a few. Just, we'll just repeat it back. Okay, I'm interested, yeah. Yes, another one? Another last question? Hello? Does it work? Okay, yeah, my name is Karin Johansson-Mex and I just wanted to add on to Susan's comment because I'm the head of Medea. Medea is a research center for digital media here at Malmö Högskola, Malmö University. And actually, I do not actually have a question, but this is a little bit premature. In that case, very briefly. This is very premature, but I just want all of you guys to know that we are actually developing a lab in order to do physical prototyping. We call it the connectivity lab and we're gonna try out this model throughout this year and we really would like to work in cooperation with all of you guys if you have constructive and creative ideas in the realm of physical digital computing. We are of course gonna work with Arduino because David Cortiz is, like Susan mentioned, part of our team, but basically we would like to bring the innovation really down into the university and not just work with our research and the students, but also work very closely to cooperative partners here in the region. Thank you. Just to mention, yes. Thank you. There, unfortunately, ends our time, so, but Kate will be around for a while. Yeah, I'll be here. Yes. Okay, ladies and gentlemen. Kate Hartman.