 Good day friends we'll get started in about a minute. Hi Lance. Hey Bjorn, how are you? Oh I'm good. Good. Finally back from a holiday. Oh good, how was it? Oh wow, complicated. That's the shot version. Ah holidays can be that way, can't they? Yeah. What's the, I've heard the old saying that no one needs the vacation more than someone who's just been on vacation. Yeah that's fitting my case. All right good stuff. Well I don't know where my other Ruth's ID friends are, hopefully they're coming, but if not, ah look at that. See you just have to invoke the friend. Hey Roto. Good morning, how are you doing? All right. All right, let me share my screen. Hopefully the right screen. Oh, hold on. Too many tabs in that screen. Let's make it simpler here. Okay, trying again. Okay, welcome. Well let's see. Let me give everybody the link first. Okay, there is the link for our meeting today. Welcome everybody to the March 27th, 2023. Aries Didcom v2 working group. I am your host Lance Bird from Ruth's ID and I have to remind everybody about the antitrust policy for hyperledger as well as the hyperledger code of conduct and feel free to add yourself to the attendees list if you like and is there anybody who would like to introduce themselves today? Okay, fair enough. Okay so today we want to cover IIW which is in April and we're doing a big Didcom Connectathon. I guess we're starting to refer to it as and that'll probably take up a bunch of our time but we could revisit AIP3 as well as some other things that we haven't gotten to since we've been busy and we can also anything else that you all think that we should add to our agenda for today. Happy to discuss. Okay, there enough. So in terms of updates I did not attend the Aries working group last week. Just super busy. So if anybody wants to give any updates for many of the Aries working groups or even things outside of Aries diff, trust over IP, other things like that, feel free. Okay, that's fine as well. Certainly the trust over IP trust spanning protocol stuff is well I guess winding down in terms of the exploration portion of it and so hopefully now they'll be kind of moving towards a consolidation point where they different proposals start to converge and define what overlaps and what qualifies as a trust spanning protocol and things like that. So Didcom v2 of course is front and center on that so that's exciting. Yeah, then we'll be ongoing. All right, so IW is in let's see how many more meetings do we have until then? We have today and then third and 10th probably the 17th will be canceled as a bunch of us will be flying or not necessarily canceled but maybe somebody else will have to lead it. So we essentially have this meeting and two others before we need to be ready for IAW and Connect-a-thon. Roots ID has blocked off, well, we've reserved a demo space for the demo time which is right in the middle of the conference. The conference is technically Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Some proceedings before that that occur and maybe some meetups after that but that's the official conference time and so right in the middle of Wednesday essentially during lunchtime is the demo time and Roots ID has a slot for that and I guess we still have not said for sure if we're going to make that slot the Connect-a-thon time or if Roots ID will just focus on some of our stuff. Any thoughts on that? Preferences in terms of should we do it as part of a demo hour or should we? I'm talking about the Didcom Connect-a-thon as part of the demo hour or would you like to do an official IAW session as a Connect-a-thon? Do we know who's going to participate or we need to participate? Yes, great question. Great question. Okay, so let's bring up our page here and oh, yes, so Roots ID obviously, Ataloprism, Tony Rose has said that he will be there and certainly Roots ID can help with the Ataloprism side of things. Aviary Tech Brian had said that he wants to participate. Thomas, he demonstrated Nessus his progress there. That may be something that because I don't think that he said that he's going to be at IAW, so that may be something that we do like a recording of and show a recording of some connections between his work and Roots ID or anybody else who wants to connect with him. Ariel's going to be there and I think he's planning to show some things as well. I don't know if he said that he's going to do the Connect-a-thon? Yeah, no, he has another table reserved for that time, so as far as I see on the agenda. And I don't think he's ready for Didcom B2. Okay, all right, so I will let me modify that then. And Blocktrust Bjorn is going to be there, right Bjorn? Yeah, I would be there. So I would prefer joining your session or like your demo hour. Great, okay, that sounds good. I think do you know if Tony wants to show a demo or if he is just there? Yeah, he wants to participate. Certainly, we are working with them right now. Roots ID is working with them in terms of, well, yeah, continuing. Yeah, I think maybe we need to confirm that or ask him to reconfirm because I'm not sure he has the tickets and all the stuff he may forgot. Yeah, right. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, I'm going to reconfirm everything because maybe people may change minds or whatever. Okay, all right, so we'll go through a reconformation phase. We'll say here confirmed and Bjorn, you are confirmed as well. And I'm going to move you up. Anybody in touch with Brian to check with him? He had, right, just left the message, so I need to confirm with him. I'll consider that one of my tasks after this meeting to, yeah, reach out on Discord. Okay, so we have, let's see, two definite confirms. I suppose that Nessus, I mean, he won't be live there with us, but I think he's confirmed in the sense that yeah, he has the tools and he wants to at least show a recording of where that, oh, I messed something up. Look at this. I don't know, it's spread out all of a sudden. Well, I don't know what I did. Maybe these dashes are doing something. Well, okay, that's all right. Okay, going down the list, Pico Labs, Bruce. So we will have our bi-weekly meeting tomorrow. Okay. And I will ask the students, I've shared this ACMD with them, but haven't heard back from them. I know that neither myself nor any of the students are able to attend in person. Okay. But Phil will be there. I know he might not be there, but not representing this particular thing. Yeah, fair enough. So it would be helpful if I could identify someone who could spend some small amount of time working with the students to attempt to practice connecting. Okay. I don't know who might be willing to do that. Do you guys have, so you said your meeting is tomorrow? Yes. Is that something that someone could attend or that be too soon to connect with them that way? That's a good question. Or maybe at that meeting, could you discuss if there would be a certain time that's good to meet, and we could just see if it works out that, because it's hard to obviously coordinate a bunch of students and things like that. Yes, it is. I'm just looking at the calendar here. If it's bi-weekly, I suppose that it should fit before, you know, not your coming meeting, but the meeting after should fit before. Yes. And it's even possible if someone was free at 10 a.m. mountain time tomorrow, they could, we could arrange a meet. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I don't know on the roots ID side, I'll have to reach out and find out, but let's keep that in our pocket and, yes, certainly discuss with them tomorrow. And then, yeah, we'll see if we can get a meet up. Certainly the roots ID mediator is out there, the block trust mediator, I think as well is out there. And so that could be something they could just try to connect with and, yeah, I don't know how easy or hard that will be for them, but and they could begin to ask questions. So at the very least, asynchronously, I guess I'm saying there's a service out there waiting for them. So they could just start asking asynchronous questions as well. Okay. Thanks, Lance. I will bring that up to them tomorrow. Great. Great. And the link for the block trust mediator is also on this document. I have the roots ID one, two, let me move that up there as well, just so it's more front and center. And we have, yeah, a Jupyter notebook that I assume Roto did as well. Yeah. So I guess this section here, the provided services, you can see, you can see what's there. So have the students look at that stuff and then they can just start asking questions. Okay. Great. And then maybe we'll do also like a live meeting if we need to. Okay. Yeah, I think we should also add the mediator from Brahmo, that Nick mentioned. Do you have a link to that? I want to try to find it. Okay. And speaking of Nick, I do believe he's confirmed. He said he wasn't positive they'd be at IOW, but we know that Alex and he are in contact and working with each other. So I'm going to set that as confirmed because, you know, at the very least it's a similar story to Prism at the very least, Roots ID is capable of demonstrating Varamo and Prism as part of our demonstration. So yeah, I think that's sufficient at least. So, you know, at the very least it looks like we have, yeah, four, but probably five, probably six, and then Pico Labs, probably seven participants. And I don't know. I think I saw Alex. You can also consider as confirmed. It is confirmed that Mike and Char, Mike Ebert and Char Howland will both aviate IOW in terms of the projection. I'm not like, like I just attend these meetings to get updates for the general team, but they're sort of the ones in charge of that. But it seems like a green light on that. Okay. Can you confirm with them what they plan to do during the demo hour for IW? Or I can even reach out to them if you want. I can, Mike's a bit busy this week, but let me schedule a little quick meeting with them and I will get back to you. Yeah, or just, yeah, it's possible that, yeah, just, I mean, I don't know if they, I haven't looked at the demo list. It sounds like Roto has the demo list somewhere handy for himself. If they're not listed on the demo list, then I would think that, you know, then that would work quite well for them to kind of join us. And that would be cool. So I'm going to put them as, I'll put it here and also let me get there. I also wrote it in the chat if you need other names. And I assume it'll come up when you start typing. Also, I wanted to say cool background. Oh, thank you. It's my first time using it. So I appreciate it. Okay. So, yeah, good. And you put there right, Mike and Char. Is it pronounced Char? I don't know. I don't know. Char, not met them. She actually leads, I think there's a part one and part two of the Aries Working Group. So I think she leads every other week. Okay, cool. We're going to say tentatively confirmed. How about that? Sure. And I'll get in touch with the base up about that. Yeah, great. Cool. Thank you. Oh, I did it again. I think these spaces are what does it, yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. And then Animo, I know will be there, but I think that they said they don't know if they're going to be demonstrating. I think they actually, during that demo hour, they have something they are demonstrating. I can't remember what it is. Yeah, they have something, but also they, I think they don't have, they can't be too ready. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay, good. All right. So I think that's a pretty healthy list. I don't think that we are for sure saying that we're doing it during the demo time, but I think we're leaning towards the demo time being the connect-a-thon. That's my sense so far. Okay. Bjorn says, Alex, could you check the URL of the link? Doesn't seem to work. I'm not sure which link we're talking about. I'm maybe, oh, here we go. Yeah, but I'm a link. Yeah. Yes, got you. I see. That didn't come up as a URL in the chat, but okay. So let me copy that. And I will put that under provided services. Yeah. Good. Yeah, but it's not working. It's not working. Yeah. Well, I'm sure they'll get it worked out. Abramo, mediator is here. We'll be live soon. Okay. Good. Yeah, very good. I don't know how everybody feels about this. I don't, can't tell if this feels like much to everybody, but I'm very excited about this, you know, relative to what we did last IW. This is a really nice step forward. So I'm just really excited about it. Okay. Maybe we should go then through, in terms of required, we were basically saying, you know, hey, if you bring a service application or whatever that's did come v2, at the very least, you need to support out of band, basic messaging and routing. Is that still, we're still solid on that? Anything else we need to kind of say here? Okay, I'll take silence as applause. And then optional, we basically said, yeah, prerecorded videos. So that might be what we do with Ness's, for instance, I'd actually like to collect as many prerecorded videos as possible, because we could even do like, you know, just have it as something that's kind of running in the background on a laptop, but it's also something we could post to social media and things like that. So as much like recorded content, of course, we would also want to record during the session and add that. But yeah, basically, some kind of highlight video for all this effort. I really, I'm happy to, you know, kind of put that together as we get it. So if you do have a session with somebody where you achieve some kind of interop, you know, connection, if it's possible, you know, do a screen recording or, you know, zoom recording or, you know, Google Meet, whatever it is, and then just send it to me. And it can just be, you know, fairly raw and I can edit it down, whatever we need to do. Yeah. So anything else that you want me to list under the optional section? Okay. Um, I don't know, Alex. Was this still, was the OIDC for VC? Is that something that we still think is possible to show or should I just remove it? Okay. He says remove it for now. So I'll just take it off of there. We knew that was a stretch goal. I think maybe we save it for next time. Maybe I'll start a new section actually. Considerations for, it'll be probably November IW, November 2023. Yeah. No worries, Alex. He says he doesn't have his mic working right. I'm going to put this towards the bottom. Okay. In terms of our story and use case, let's be honest that just showing any form of, you know, interaction is like fantastic. So that's already like the dessert. The cherry on top is can we start working towards an actual, you know, use case that kind of everybody's aware of the use case. They're aware of, you know, possible roles that they can play. I see Alex maybe is unmuted, so Paul's for a second. Can you guys hear me? Yeah. Yeah, you sound good. So, sorry, I missed the, it seems, I don't know why there's two of me. I closed the other tab. Yeah, I see two of you, but no worries. What were you saying? Sorry. I do, yeah, I do see two of you, but no worries. And it seems to be working. Why did you ask? Sorry. I didn't catch that. Oh, I was just, well, I'm not sure which part you missed, but I was just saying that, yeah, we see two of you, but it's no problem. Okay. Yeah, it's internet. Yeah. So in terms of a story or use case, you know, maybe this is something that we save for, again, you know, the future. But essentially, there's this air travel use case that the W3C, you know, uses as a nice way to highlight some of the complexities of, for instance, VC, you know, well, identifiers and VCs. And, you know, well, here's a fairly complex use case that, of course, SSI wants to solve. So I don't, you know, this is just bonus material, essentially, when Thomas did his demonstration last week, this is the use case that he's following along with. And I think it's a nice one. So, yeah, just be aware of it. And, yeah, maybe gives, you know, all of us a bit of a frame to kind of work towards. But whatever various support you can do with that, that's all just bonus material, basically. Yeah. So group chat as well. I guess, I don't know, what is it going to look like when we're doing basic messaging here? For instance, yeah, of the, let's see, with the prism, you know, connect-a-thon activity that we did, it literally was kind of a simple chat view. I suppose that with someone like Thomas, with his command line stuff, I'm not sure what exactly it's going to look like when we are trading messages and how we're going to show that. Any thoughts on that? Do you think it's mostly like, for instance, Roots wallet, it looks like a chat, right? It's a kind of this chat interface. So do you think that with like Thomas' stuff, when we're interacting with his stuff, it'll probably be a recording. So we'll just be showing him doing the operations and then, you know, the messages appearing in Roots wallet. Do you think there's any other things that we'll be showing? Yeah, well, the basic is, I think, like that, right? Yeah. Just send the basic message and respond to the other receiver and reply back. Yeah, so like, for now, we're just trying to, for this interoperaton, are we just using the basic message protocol as like the client-facing protocol? Because like the aggregation, like just happening almost like in the background. Yeah, we're saying that required is essentially these three things. And so, yeah, the way to connect essentially, or yeah, the way to address one another and then the ability to basic message. So yeah, okay. All right, yeah, fair enough. And yeah, so there can be some level of explanation and then obviously some level of showing whatever we have to show in terms of our interface. I don't know. I haven't seen the block trust stuff. Bjorn, is there anything you want to say about kind of what you want to show on your side? Oh, I guess. So, yeah, I mean, it's a web browser. So you, I have a notebook. I put it there, open the wallet and you have yours on your phone and we can send messages. So that's the demo. Yeah, great. Yeah, and everybody actually could use it. I mean, it's there. That doesn't have to be scripted so much or so. Okay, awesome. Perfect. Okay. I think with the Veramo that Nick mentioned the other day that he will be able to, I think, understand the peer, but the message from the mediator is going to be in, Alice correct me, in this web, right? Or any, I think any of the Veramo supported the method. I do have a deep peer. I did create a deep peer plugin that works. Yeah, working. Nice. I'm able to create right here. Is that mean that all Veramo agents from here on out will have deep peer support? They can if they want to. Oh, like it's right. It's a plugin that they just need to configure. Yeah, fair enough. That's the perfect answer, of course. Yeah, good. Where is that plugin published? It's in our repo. Okay. Is that something that we're going to try to push out to be like NPM-able? Yeah. Yeah. I haven't done all of that work yet. I just make it work for locally. I need to do some refactoring for that to be NPM installable. Yeah, great. Awesome. But yeah, it works. I'm able to create the peers and with service endpoints, and I'm able to. Okay. All right. So that dovetails well with what we're talking here in terms of minimum interrupt profile. Is there anything we want to add here? I'm going to modify this to say test your agent service against any of the mediators listed. What a dynamic in the provided services. Okay. So let's just imagine these sessions are supposed to be in the demo, basically supposedly that people are walking around from table to table to table. And so this is a little bit different since we're doing a connect-a-thon. Well, I guess that's a question. Are we able in five minutes? I can't remember if it's five minutes or 10 minutes. I should know this. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. I think it's just a recommendation. Well, yeah. At least let me help everybody to know what the recommendation is. Okay. So the demo hour is, they call it a speed demo hour. And it's from 1.30 to 2.30. And you'll be going around to tables or participants will be going around to tables. So we'll essentially have a table that we're collected around. We're table number 11. Maybe I should put that in there. I should probably put all these details in here. Yeah. I guess the nice thing is that we don't have really to reset our demo. So that could be more of a constant demo because some parties might throw out their mediator and then reconnect with the mediator or some agent. So that doesn't have to be like the 10 minutes scripted demo. And then it's over. So it's a bit easier for us because it's more or less constant or can be at least. Yeah. Thoughts on that? Yeah. I see that the tables, the roundtables, so we may be seated with two or three laptops and a bunch of cell phones and maybe in the pairs and show anyone who appears here. We show what we're doing, how it works. Yeah. Different, yeah. Different actions. Good. Yeah. I mean, that seems good to me. I mean, it's pretty laid back and free flowing. Yeah. I'm just trying to think of if there's any more structure we can put to it that will allow it to be as successful as possible. I think somebody has to hand stop. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Jump in anytime, Alexandra. Sorry. Is there any information where you got like the table numbers in the times? Like do you have a link for that? They sent me a custom. Well, I'm not sure if it's custom or not. Okay. Maybe never mind I know in our team who would get that. Okay. What did they send me? They sent me a Google Doc for my thing. The nice thing is they sent me a Google Doc that I can adjust because the way that I wrote it, I wasn't sure if it was going to be roots ID only and then we do a connect-a-thon in another session. So if we decide to do the connect-a-thon as part of the demo time, I can go edit the demo description to include all of this information, all the participants and stuff like that. I guess the link to our HackMD. So that'll be really good. I appreciate them doing that. Just looking through. They did give a link for the growing list of demos, but I'm not sure if you think Roto, that's something I can just, it looks like it's on the IW website. So let me post that here, just so that everyone's aware. Yeah, I don't remember how I got it. Yeah, it's on the website. Sorry, just trying to find my chat. It disappeared. Here we go. Zoom. I swear they make it as hard as possible on the hosts. Okay. So that's the kind of list of demos that'll be there. And like I said, I'll update kind of the description for ours. I don't think we're 100% sure we're doing it during the demo time, but we're heading that direction. Demo tables list. Yeah. Oh, actually I should be making that a link. Cool. Okay. Any other thoughts of how we can make this as successful as possible? I think especially things we need. I have a question. You said a couple of times, and I've forgotten the verb you used, but to try yourself against a mediator, can you unpack for me what that means? How do you try to use a mediator? Yeah, sure. So let's just look at the mediation page. I think it'll so this is just a page to give instructions for connecting. And so most wallets would scan a QR code, but there's also this out of band invitation that's here. And that is essentially how you would begin to do the connection with the mediator. So if you have a cloud agent speaking in conv2, you would make a connection to the mediator, and what would be the purpose of that? If you have a cloud agent, you will need a mediator. I think mediators are only for phones and edge devices. Oh, I see. So this is a way for you to register your phone-based wallet to use the mediator for incoming connections from other agents? Yeah, so that is the purpose. However, I did think that our mediator also can act as, correct me, Roto and Alex, but I thought our mediator had the ability to essentially act like a place that people can do a trust ping. I think we've even in the past used it to issue a credential. Is that, I don't know, thoughts on that? No, that's fine. Just for testing, you can use this out of band and send a trust ping, send a discover feature as well. I think the block trust mediator does do have these two protocols as well. And we also include like a basic message, a protocol that if you send a question, they're going to be replied by using responses from the Wolfram Alpha API that we found there. But at least a trust ping that is a really common protocol, the first that all the people implement. So you send a ping and you're going to get a reply back. Okay, thank you. So my understanding then is that a mediator is a cloud agent that speaks in COMB2 plus it has mediation capabilities beyond just being a cloud agent. Okay, thank you. Right, that's correct. Yeah. Can I essentially see that via the stupider notebook? If you use the notebook, you're going to have more complex protocols, but all those have request mediation. But you can start just with the trust ping and see if you got the replay back. And then you can go then with those mediation protocol. Yeah. Okay, so is there, do you think it's worth putting additional instructions here just to say something along the lines of if you just want to try a trust ping? Or do you feel like? Yeah, but yeah, I think there's something on, but don't get in the repo, but it would be nice to put there as well. Okay, got you. So somewhere here, maybe in a readme. Trust ping, the mediator also implements the following features that can be used as a playground to test other protocols. Trust ping, but this is probably just the definition of that protocol. Yeah, so that's only the definition that's supporting. Is there a link to the page that you're scrolling through, sorry, Rodo, is the link to the page that you're scrolling to in the markdown that we were looking at or? I'll put it there. Yeah, that's good because you can kind of get to it from the stupider notebook link, but I'll let's put that in here. Oh, thank you. Sure. Okay, good. What else? Other questions, thoughts? Yeah, I mean, it's pretty low key. I mean, whatever we make it is what it'll be, and yeah, I mean, it's good, but I would say maybe we should keep a log of how far we've gone with each thumb specifying that I guess it would be cool to know who's going to be able, who is already, which pairs of connections or basic, which pairs of basic messaging do we believe we've already demonstrated or are about to demonstrate, if that makes sense. Where do I want to put this? Document, recordings, yeah, probably here. Video interactions. Okay, and certainly when you're doing your sessions, if we can kind of capture where we're seeing failures, that would be great so that we can kind of update whichever side needs updating or both sides maybe of the interaction. Let's just say status log of rep for live demo. So we've definitely done roots ID to root ID and prism. That's happened. And really I should be saying roots wallet. We've done a quick question to that. So that's using the prism iOS SDK or how does it work? Because a cloud agent doesn't have endpoint for basic messaging. Right. Yes, this is with the Swift SDK and a sample app that they've put on top of it in order to give it a UI. And they use some kind of prism mediator or did they use yours? Yeah, they used ours. Okay. Yeah, good question. I also noticed that the prism demo had the connections protocol. Do we need to support that as well for other agents? No, I don't think so. Just if you need to work with the prism right now. Yeah, don't put that constraint on us. It's the problem. Yeah, I will most likely implement that, but I haven't started on that. But yeah, that's a goal to also work towards the demo of block trust and prism. Okay, so Alex, what is your intuition on kind of Ramo? Yeah, like we can send basic messages to them. I can try to implement the connections protocol from prism in there. But yeah, I'll let you guys know how that goes. I haven't implemented a outcome protocol in the Ramo agent. Yeah, I know that they have basic support for mediation protocol and basic messages. Okay. Like out of the box. Okay. So that's going to be the root wallet Ramo? What do you say, Alex? Yes. Okay. Okay. I mean the root wallet version that the Ramo root wallet, I'm gonna say. Yeah, so that's actually a good question. So there's kind of the idea of root wallet using Veramo's framework, but then there's the idea of obviously connecting with a Veramo mediator or whatever. I mean, obviously we'd have to, well, yeah, I mean the Veramo mediator, but then also just a, is there, if Nick is present, do we think that he's going to have some identity wallet or something similar or some form of interface? Yeah, interface or even a cloud agent or something that he's going to be working with. Like in terms of, I know that he owns the Veramo, like he manages the Veramo mediator in terms of services, but I don't think that they do have a wallet or anything like that. Okay. Yeah, like root wallet is the interface for... Yeah, okay, fair enough. Okay, good. It sounds like Bruce is looking to do Pico labs to mediators. We don't have to say necessarily which one it'll be, but good. Let me come back. And you are mentioned the blog to us, please. Yes, absolutely good. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. It doesn't work yet. You can put it under when and I'll record next week. Yes, certainly. Well, I should probably instead of be doing this as a bolted list, right? It should be some kind of table, but my table skills, I don't want to try to do this in front of everybody, but yeah. Anyways, maybe I'll convert this to the table so we can just give checks on who's going to interact. I mean, just put it below under when. Oh, because it's not there yet. I see. Yeah, thanks. Mer. Okay, good. And then let's go back up to our list and write Nessus when Nessus. And I don't know, for instance, I'm going to list Nessus roots wallet here, for instance, but I don't know, Bjorn, if you're planning to try to reach out. I was hoping that these sessions of today being kind of, we're doing a lot of coordination, but I'm hoping that next week, for instance, if Thomas is here, we're literally trying these things, right? I would love to, for Pico Labs or Varamo or anybody that we're just live together in the next two areas, did comfy two sessions, just trying to make connections and well, trying to do trust pings and yeah, everything, anything that we think is possible or that we'd like to be able to show. I would love us to try it live and see how hard it is. Dress rehearsals, I guess, is what I'm saying. What does everybody think about that? Do you feel like that's the best use of that time for the next two weeks? Okay, I'm going to take that as yes, silence always means you're all very impressed by my ideas. Completely agree. Okay, so same with, yeah, in DCO folks, if they ever have time, Alexandra to come visit during this time or, and we can always set up obviously sessions outside as well that might fit schedules better. I'll reach out to Tony for sure to see if he's going to come. Okay, yeah, Brian, I'll have to reach out to. Okay, so I think that's, I'm going to put, I'm going to list Brian down here. Alex, I don't know how, how, if you've talked to him recently, if you have anything in terms of where you think he is? I have not. I haven't talked to Brian in a minute. Yeah, he's been super busy with something, but I can't remember what, something, something out in the SSI open standards open source world. Okay, so I'm just going to put that like this. Yeah, okay, good. So just kind of this is going to be two, we'll call them apps, it'll be two did come, the two apps, the mobile apps, I should say, right? Or I guess we could be showing, well, we'll see, we'll see what Tony says. Yeah, I mean, for sure, we'll be showing kind of two did come v2 mobile apps. This is a web app with a mobile app. Correct. Yeah. And then this would be a web app with depends on which, which prism we're talking here. Yeah, I guess the iOS version then. So basically another version of your wallet. Okay. Okay. Oh, so you're talking, well, yeah, would we want to show block trust to the prism app? So or does the agent answer for basic messages, the prism cloud agent? Yeah, they have a demo with a basic so it should Okay, check. And we can call the guys also to adapt. Yeah. The only thing that, yeah, when you start working on that, we should check that issue that I found with the I think the last library on the Cibala last last library. Yeah. So we need to check that because the first prism use the last library. So that's okay. Also lands for the veramo they do. I'm just running their, their agent locally and they do have like a chat interface, like for a web app. Oh, nice. They're like web interface with our wallet. Okay. You said, I'm sorry, was it web or mobile? Yeah, it's a web app. Thanks. Okay, good. Yeah, very good. Okay. Pico labs. These are IOT type. It would be considered a cloud agent. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And these are would be acting as cloud agents as well. Okay, good. Nessus also would be like a cloud type agent. Okay. Yep. I don't know if it's obvious. Yeah. Okay. And then Brian, I mean, you don't have to, we don't have to know. I can reach out to him, but I don't know. Does he have a mobile app or is it a cloud agent? We don't have to know. I'll ask him. Okay, good. Yeah. I think he's running from the computer laptop. It's like a Node.js command line or something like that. Okay. Good. Okay. And this was an app as well. Okay. Sorry. I've forgotten what we said we wanted to do, which prism did we want to do for BlockTrack? I mean, in general, we could use as you said, those with SDK with your UI. But as Rodolfo mentioned, there's some issue with the Rust.com library. Okay. We have to figure out. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. But maybe when I can talk to the cloud agent, that would also be fine, I guess. Okay. Okay. That's pretty much our time. Are these sessions helpful? I know this isn't standard. Usually we're discussing things happening out in the community, but everybody good? Yeah. Okay. I see a thumbs up from Bruce, Bjorn. Great. All right. Everybody's cool with it. So essentially, we're hoping next week that we start to demonstrate some of this stuff together live, or at least continue to make progress towards being able to do live interactions. And hopefully, that's yeah, a nice warm up. And we can record some of it so that we have some video in case people can't make it live. Okay. Great. Thanks, everybody. Fantastic. And we'll we'll see you next week. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.