 And any moment now should be live Let me refresh the browser. Yeah, YouTube does not. Oh, just kidding. Hey, here we are. Boom. There we are You go. We're live. I also had to refresh the browser. Well, I got a Listening to us on loop because it'll drive me nuts. Yeah. Oh god that one day remember when I couldn't figure out what it was I was just hearing us talking forever and ever Oh, yeah All right, we're gonna wait a few minutes for people to trickle it looks like we already got quite a few people Let's go. What happens when you actually post it ahead of time? Who would have thought? Who would have thought the one things professionally would help You'd crazy idea. I know the ones can only imagine that's good stuff. I don't have to tell any stories about liver babies this time and And also myself and also and me. All right. Yeah, let's let's jump right into it then boom Don't see anything anybody in chat yet, but that's fine. Yeah, we got plenty of people watching. Let's go Let's do it up. How do you not see people in chat covetous lemon's been talking storm I was been talking Okay, yeah, even jelly neezes here. Oh Boom there we go. Yeah, I had to click at the button I had to click it up. What kind of streamer doesn't pay attention to his own chat Meaning is hard dude. Anyone over 30 viewers Sorry guys. All right cool. All right, we got chatting up and running. We got the show going. Let's start it up Hello, everyone and welcome back to for the minions the weekly show we talk about the paragon remakes and ethereal This week we really don't got that much to cover We have a very minor updates from pretty much everybody so we are gonna have a discussion topic Which we haven't done a while in the topic this week We're gonna talk about the pre-release strategy of these games like fault went early access Fred like released an alpha and they went quiet for like a year Overprime had like their peer-to-peer which Translated into the servers then they went down and brought back net marble on the theory. You'll has had a couple of Pretty alpha tests, so we're gonna talk about how that has affected their popularity currently And if it was a good or a bad thing because I think there's good and bad things to be said about all of that and of course chat You are more than welcome to participate in these discussions I am your host the man goose joining me as always is the heartbreaker himself jelly knees I That's me man goose breaking hearts breaking hearts man. Absolutely my simpson chat. I'm sorry But with us this week. We've also got the Viking Jedi who's been here Relatively consistently I guess if he has to be here, but they've also got dapper dice with us But welcome guys happy to have you both with us here dapper give us a little bit of information about yourself I got started in Paragon favorite characters favorite roles that kind of stuff Good morning everybody. I am dapper dice for those that don't know me I'm actually really new to This whole well new at this point quote unquote of the whole para zombies thing and actually the MOBA scene I don't think I've ever mentioned this on the fault partner panel that I've appeared on twice But it was actually overprime closed beta test one back last year That actually got me into MOBAs Wow, so not only did it get me. Yeah, not only did it get me into MOBAs That was also my first experience with the whole paragon aspect thing And even then and I only saw it as like a hey, this was a cool game. I'm excited for this to come out It wasn't until CBT2 Back early this April May ish that actually started to put effort into learning about these games and learning about the communities So I'm excited to be here. I'm a fresh face to most of this and trying to figure it all out as we go That's that's gonna be quite the interesting Perspective I love talking to people that didn't actually like play paragon or anything. That's always fucking it's always fucking cool Oh, yeah, I do my best to provide insight In ways that maybe not other people might so so This week I think we're gonna go just according to the list we're gonna go over prime a theory old fault predecessor And then we'll get into our topic for discussion. So let me go ahead and switch the scene I'll switch the scene over prime and hopefully it worked. It did excellent. I'm so proud of me Get on my stream deck here next that way he can I put all the facts across and all that And he'll slow from here. All right shot. How you guys doing? So over prime this week. We had a twin blast video They've been doing these sort of like we've already said very very similar to the way paragon did their initial reveals of paragon Just um in the dark sort of up close and personal views of each hero And this time we had twin blast the interesting thing though was it was there it was their skin for twin blasts It wasn't like we've seen that they've made adjustments to the base models of the heroes a lot of times Even if they didn't change their face or anything they changed around their clothing a little bit This was just a completely Updated skin for twin blasts which prompted me to ask is this gonna be their base model twin blast because I know they love This twin blast skin Dapper, what did you think of the twin blast little video? The the model showcase I think is a great way to show You know if you run the game at best settings, this is what the game can look like You know obviously not gonna get that close of a detail of the model But it's also you know something unique to overprime So by doing both of those things it definitely can subtly bring hype to a game that's soon to come So I think it was a good, you know idea to show their own version of the model as well Though I don't think that's gonna be the base model as it was a skin in the actual CBT so it'd be interesting to have one character look that graphically good with all that detail While every other character is at their base skin from from what I know of the Paragon game Jelly, what do you think? Yeah, I mean I I think it's fantastic as well I don't think that it's the base skin Especially because the other videos that we've seen in this similar line They've all the only one that seems to be base Completely has been the Muriel one, but even then she had a couple Tweaks here and there and I it does throw me back to wonder if this is some kind of mastery skin Stuff that they're showing off that maybe they're gonna transition this skin to be a mastery skin for Twin Blast And the other ones could also be in that same vein Because and someone pointed that out videos and videos ago I think it was on the one the week we had Murdoch as it That and that is becoming slowly more and more of a possibility in my mind Because Murdoch being that iconic blue right everybody that sees Murdoch goes like oh, yeah that the blue guy that his base skin He's the blue police skin, right? But that one they showed was more of a gold that to me is a weird thing to make his new base skin So I don't think they're transitioning. I think they're trying to Create either new skins or show off mastery skins throughout this whole process. Okay, Viking Jenna. What are your thoughts? I mean, I think the guys touched on it pretty yeah, I agree with them If it is going to be the new base skins then It to me speaks to that the rest of the skin line is gonna have to really step it up to be Just set themselves apart from the base which at this point I think overprime is fully capable of doing and maybe that's what they're investing in is trying to Really give the the visual, you know increase to this I know that's a that's a big part to what makes overprime super interesting is their visual effects And you know how flashy they make everything look and feel and how they're really trying to separate themselves from Paragon while also still paying homage to you know, the game that we all loved when it came out So it would be interesting if this is the base skin and what that means for the other skins Yeah, I have no idea man I because they have already even with like the skins that they showed during the CBT this last one They were all already really good like you know, like to me the several skins were the most dynamic You know the shoulders getting really big and all that stuff, but I am a huge fan of mastery skins I said this about fortnight to like in their battle pass So you could like earn your way up to showing off your skills or your abilities And I think that in MOBAs having that visual appeal same thing in League of Legends if you get to gold You get a skin every and each rank above that you get a different type of that skin So it's a really cool way to show off to the community And I know they have that in fault that hey, I'm good at this champion Look at you can tell just by looking at my skin And I think that's that's always fun So if these are that kind of progression system super neat if they're the base then yeah The rest of the skins are really gonna need to be polished up to keep up with it because it's It's really really cool looking and it also I mean the boring answer would be that they're just showing off And it has nothing to do with the skins at all and that's That very well could be Like they did the 3d printed little model of it and they painted it and they gave that away as as One of the one of the prizes for winning their Contests like their marketing contest where they had people post stuff like on YouTube shorts and tiktok and stuff again That's cool genius marketing ploy, but yeah, I think they just really like this twin blast skin I think that might be Rangers favorite here or two or maybe Johnson one of those two. I Think John's most favorite hero is Chimera apparently cuz he just popped off I also think Rager prefers the Fay as their favorite champion. Oh, you know, yeah Yeah, I believe so but I mean they definitely do like that skin cuz I think they also it's either for the steam page or something But I remember seeing that skin on like part of steams You can see it on steam I think at some point I was like the thing you see behind Adele or whatever So they dad they definitely want people to see that that skin is their original skin And they put a lot of effort into it hot take here. I don't really like the skin. That's true That's how I said it when it came out. I'll say it right now I love a lot of their skins that one. Yeah, of course. I'm not really a twin blast guy So I was gonna say that's the wrong take that's the wrong take FDM is officially no longer man goose's show because he's got a bad Run by other people. Thank you. Oh, yes, because for the minions is always known for their good takes Sick burn coming in the community for less than a year and already gets it all the time. He needed to know that's it Perfect fit quick assessment Jesus nice All right, well, let's move on What do you got to say Joe listening to Viking talk about it He was like, oh, yeah, the Severog skins were the best skins and in my head I translated that to be Demoria skins and then had to remember that they reverted the name So now it's back to Severog. Yeah, so I was like wait my brain took a second to figure out who we were talking It's harder with the ones that they completely changed like Shinbi to Bora like she was just completely Bora in my head now And the difference between like obviously somebody that came in through overprime I had to learn the overprime names first then learn the Paragon So so there are definitely times where I'll mention like, oh, yeah, this oolok build that I had no way He's nabash. That's what everyone Defaults to I have to do that and it's been easier considering over primes been gone long enough that with only fault and predecessor Prior to overprime starting to get updates, you know With those two being the only ones that anyone talks about you know again until recently It was easy to get the names down and even during CBT a lot of people that I knew did play Paragon So I was trying to figure out both names even during the clothes. Yeah, it's a lot It's a lot is now a bad time to announce that we're officially changing the ethereal character names to be Paragon names Countess a hundred percent. Oh, you're right. You're right. There we go And yet they only took one thing from overprimes names Scott One of the champions will be named Scott. Oh, yeah, yeah, we gotta we gotta get Scott steel somewhere in there Yeah, that's the only one I liked All right was the one everyone hated though sadly Let's uh, let's move on now to They updated their Trello this week. They added UI animation improvements buff monster icon revamp and training grounds detail and Provement now UI animation improvements. What jelly you being more in the know on this kind of stuff What's a UI animation? So it's the little thing so like when you for instance when you get an FXP to level up, right? And the little animation comes up over your icon your ability icons that it's moving up or it's glowing or whatever it is Right, that's a UI animation. So they've just added something among those lines to their UI, which I think is fantastic. I It's one of those things. Hey, look can my camera stop? Oh, there you go It's one of those things that like Being more involved in the development process. I notice more in games now, but I'm sitting there I'm like, ooh, this little thing shines a little bit here Like I'm a big fan of those little teeny details now as I go through these games So it's I'm really excited to see what they've done with that. So it's pretty important for immersion just overall I think so. Yeah, and it's and it also can be very helpful in terms of Giving the players an identity an idea of what they're supposed to be doing right So when you level up and you get that animation, you know, it's usually it's like an up arrow icon of some kind Like is moving or whatever it is, right? That gives you the sense of like you're increasing something You're moving it up. You're leveling it up You're doing this thing all through animation without text and any of that kind of stuff So it also helps make it really intuitive for players depending on what it is Another thing that overprime has that I really really really love is their kill feed Oh, it pops up and then whoever got the kill like zoops flips over to the middle and it shows the other one fade out That's more UI animation again showing that intuitive nature of The kill that just happened. Oh, yeah A couple weeks ago, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it looked really good. Jenna. What'd you think about the updates to the troll? Oh, I mean, it's specifically the UI stuff My wife is a UI and UX person. Thanks. That's what she does professionally So I've gotten a chance to like by proxy pick up on a lot of stuff and it's really really really interesting how important and sometimes I think Underutilized UI and UX in video games really is I mean if you look at like even just streaming services, right? Like if you go to Netflix versus Amazon Prime, you know The the drastic difference between the the usability and the interactions that you have you can actually put you off on Wanting to use one platform over another right same thing with you know, twitch and YouTube, you know The usability in that regard so when you look at video games putting a lot of emphasis and effort and this was something we You know praised material for with their improvements on the UI if you don't have a really good UI That's engaging and useful to your player base Then then you're really really missing the mark because that's going that's literally the the front line of information That your player needs to be able to take in are they easily able to access all the stuff that they need to be paying attention to and So just seeing that alone the animation improvements that to me the animation means that they're gonna be creating things That your eyes are naturally drawn to Or things that are not are not gonna be as distracting as maybe they were before right so like that's to me The biggest and then the training ground detail improvement. I think that's pretty cool I obviously that's one I want to see what it is that they're doing as far as that's concerned But the UI animation thing I think was the most exciting for me. What about you Depper? When it comes to the Trello updates the visual UI update, I think is a good thing in multiple guards, hopefully Because it could also mean like it makes something that seemed really cool much more hype like Penta kills, you know as As jelly knees mentioned that you know, they updated the kill feed and how it shows up there So they might have updated what happens when you get or prime and when you dunk prime when you get a spirit Penta kills triple kills stuff like that So seeing what they actually do with more dynamic aspects of the UI outside of just leveling I think would be an interesting thing because then it might bring more hype Like if you get a pen to kill and like the whole green screen like glows golden for a second That'd be awesome. You know, who knows what they're going to actually do with it as for the training ground I actually looked into a little bit more detail by a little bit I just clicked on you know training ground details and that showed I think it was like utility Or settings or something like that So I don't think that some of the people in the community had been speculating like oh the training ground update wasn't that big It was probably just like changing the aesthetic but in other updates they always mentioned like this is a visual update or this is a Sound update they mentioned what it is So I imagine what they're doing with the training grounds is you know, hopefully Making it so that way you get more customization there because in CBT2 you could buy items You could level up that was really about it in terms of what you could actually do in the training area So hopefully by them making it like a utility fix they make it so hopefully you can play with other people You can decide to put a bot down give that bot items. Who knows? So I think that is a much bigger update than people might initially have realized and think that in something that over prime Desperately needed along with all the other games to my knowledge is a way to theory craft because there aren't really any Any good ways to do that as of this exact moment So hopefully that gets added through that update and I know jelly wanted Just real quick because that training ground was actually how a lot of the stuff during the CBT that me and jelly when we were Really like trying to figure out, you know, the bigger picture of how the game would work We were using a combination of you know, the custom games and the the training ground So it was I agree completely that was super impactful on being able to theory craft and figure out item builds And all that stuff and see what actually is good and not good. So yeah, I agree. What were you gonna say jelly? Sorry, I cut you off something that overprime has done really well is pull really good aspects from other game genres and Incorporate them into overprime to make the MOBA aspect feel better Right for instance, they hit stop animations from fighting games that we that mangoes has talked about before We've mentioned before I think those are huge, right for that end I would love to see fighting games AI like tutorial AI You can set to be super aggressive or just run around in circles or whatever it is I want to see that kind of AI put into a MOBA training ground or practice mode So that you can get like if I'm practicing skill shots I want them to run back and forth and I can skill shot at them And and practice that I know smite has something very close to that But I want to see it more fleshed out and I think overprime definitely could be doing that kind of thing as well That's a really good idea Yeah, and then if they attack back then you can also test armor values and stuff like that That would be that would be great. Um, yeah, I see on here the buff monster icon revamp I think this is in response to a lot of people didn't understand the timers on like red camp blue camp Prime spirit prime guardian. I really didn't have a problem with it but apparently a lot of people did so I'm glad to see that they are Making making adjustments to it and I assume that that's what this is Maybe it's just a better icon than just a red circle to let you know. What's what's what I don't know I guess we'll find out sooner or later Yeah, it's one of those things that it's pure speculation until you see it. Yeah, it could be better timers visually on the map Yeah, it could just be a different symbol on the map It might also, you know depend how long that sort of like small little infographic appears when you get the buff because During CBT to that lasted for like half a second So unless you were taking times to read like a section of it every time you got that buff You were not gonna be able to read everything that Exactly so, you know, maybe that's what they changed so you can actually get the time to read the buff. Who knows? I agree. Um Did any of you get a pentakill during the the CBT? I don't remember what their well I don't know what their pentakill looks like because Convay kind of ruined my pentakill ruined my hexa kill really but uh Our friend Convay. I mean, yeah, no, I got pentakill's non-stop man use. Why don't you remember how many pentakills? I got every single game. I was getting pentakill after pentakill man Um, I don't remember getting one But I couldn't say that I didn't either. I don't know. It's one of those things I don't I don't remember enough one way or the other To remember if that existed in any form or fashion in the last CBT Yeah, I never got a pentakill personally though That is a sore subject because I got a quadra kill and I was about to get the last one But the support that was just trying to figure out the game Got the last hit and stole it from me at the end so I can guarantee that I nearly got a pentakill But I did play with people and they got pentakills So the the voice over would do like a a much more emotional Pentakill and you know, there would be a graphic up there. It wasn't grandiose the graphic itself Though that's why they did update it. I was shown in the work in progress But it was there and it did feel awesome Even if you weren't the one to get it because then you just everyone hears Pentakill and it just is announced to everyone in a grandiose manner So I think they did a good job originally. So depending how they change the voice over if they do the new graphic did look really good Right on um, well, I think that's about it for overprime Chat if you guys have anything that you want to ask about overprime Go ahead and throw it in the comments right now And um, do you guys have anything else you want to say about overprime before we move on to the next updates? We've got to be getting close to some announcement from them I gotta be every single week. I'm just sitting there like, oh, is this is this the week? I see an announcement like, what are we doing and Nothing yet, but so the interesting thing is on friday. They put out that like speed drawing of twin blast Oh, put that in the updates. Yeah And That was not on their youtube account. That was on a different I assume korean youtubers creating an art youtubers account That has 130,000 subscribers on youtube does this consistently for net marble, especially because a lot of their stuff is net marble content Um, and I think that's a brilliant way Reaching out to those creators that have their own audience But getting your game and your name out there to these audiences Another brilliant way to put the game out to more people to get them excited about it Jayman, how are you doing dude? OP has not said anything about new modes yet Yet Yet I mean when it comes to new modes I know that they talked about I think for EA that they're gonna come out with ranked out of the gate On top of their casual mode and ranked is where you're gonna get the draft mode So I mean outside of that information we got a while ago. I don't think there's anything new specifically And I would assume that in that draft mode at least initially they'll still be mere matchups But uh, I know that their goal is to get to the point where they do not have mere matchups But we'll we'll have to see eventually how that is. Um, I guess my question is we wait to see if there are any other questions It's just more for dapper since uh, he's the new guy on our on our call here Um, since you're new to the whole genre so far and now you've gotten a chance to play over prime I'm assuming you didn't play predecessor, but you've played lots of fault Out of the those two experiences and coming into mobas as a whole what what are you feeling like? What's uh, what's got you excited? What's got you nervous? Um, and what other games did you play that led you to this in the first place? When it came to over prime I had dabbled a little bit into League of legends prior, so that's how I knew what mobas were Because you know, it's hard to get into the moba genre without ever hearing about League of legends Exactly um But I actually learned about over prime through a friend of mine who was uh Uh a murdoch main back in paragon days, so he told me about hey, there's this game coming out soon called uh over prime I want to do the uh the cbt one And that's how I got into this whole thing was just through him and then from that point on it's been my own drive to get through this Um between over prime and fault, you know, those are two different play styles Sure, and I personally preferred the over prime play style because I myself um When it comes to a lot of my content that I've put out for over prime a lot of it is like Me doing my best to be as fast as possible May that be in getting first blood may that be getting first tower whatever and even in some of my videos just literally as fast Movement speed is possible and over prime accentuates that with sprint mode. So having sprint mode having uh speed boost items Narbash being added during the middle of that for even more of a speed boost Like I got the feeling of adrenaline as I'm running through the lanes as I'm trucking somebody over Because you know self promo here real quickly, but I have a video where I was playing narbash in the jungle as an ad bruiser And that was a lot of fun because what I would do is I would do the speed boost and then another speed boost item and just run somebody over as I'm trucking through them That's actually really genius to be honest. Oh, no, it's great because the other thing is like if I'm with somebody They also got that speed boost And if they're in sprint mode, they go faster than me because I have to stop sprinting to do that But in from what I've seen of predecessor and what I've played a fault. You don't really get that feeling those are more tactical more methodical games where your actions have to be thought out you got a Plan for every tactical situation You got to be able to react on the fly and you do an overprime as well But those you have to play very precise Well overprime you just get to have fun and you know play the pace that you desired And that was one thing I tried to advocate a lot during overprime was you can choose the pacing of the game Unlike other mobas that I'd seen if you want to hard shove lane and force the opponent to stay in their tower You can do that and still poke them out if you wanted to farm you just play it safe if they want to engage Back up but keep focusing on farming So I think overprime being able to play either way and both are valid options Is why I prefer it because it's a choose your own play style thing So that's my that's my personal opinion on why I prefer to overprime Plus, you know with a limited amount of items you could only do so much But as somebody who enjoys doing off meta stuff Weird things like an a I did an ad bellica build because in overprime Only two things really scaled off of energy power. That was the knockup and the uh bomb Yeah, you could place the drone and that shocks people but that never really did anything anyway People only used it for mana So the way I thought of it was it's a knockup and then her ultimate scales off of missing mana anyway And not energy power I'm only really losing damage on that rice map right mouse button So I just did ad and you know that was a lot of fun And I think that's what over primes rewards is that creativity. Can you play this a different way? As long as you're not actively throwing, you know, it's a challenge. And that's what I enjoyed is you could challenge yourself but still be a contribution to your team And I think especially with the new items that that's only going to be accentuated That you're gonna see all kinds of different play styles start to emerge now that itemization can actually be that Why in that expansive 100% I do want to talk real quick about the Uh potential for ranked with the five additional characters that we already know about That are gonna theoretically be playable in the next in the early access release They technically have enough to do 10 bands and have somebody in each role assuming one was banned from each role on both teams So it's theoretically possible. They could even do like a voting system of Everybody votes and then the two highest ones get banned or whatever it whatever it is. Yeah But the they do have enough characters to theoretically input some kind of draft mode And so you wouldn't get as many mirror matches Yeah, I mean I wouldn't want to go as aggressive as like league of legends banning system Or you have because they have 140 characters. Let's be honest Oh, yeah, the whole possibly 10 unique bands would be a little too much But I do like the idea of actually having a voting system like hey, let's put in our who we think we should You know ban and then one or two of those gets banned out and that's that's probably I think of like League of Legends has a mode called all for one Yeah, you got and very similar to that you can all pick what you character you want your entire team to be playing So for instance, you could do that if multiple people if three people voted for Narbash to ban then Narbash gets banned out and then you move on to the next one or whatever it may be Yeah, I like that idea. There are quite a few questions in there Mingus, did you get a chance to pick out and choose which ones you wanted to go through? Uh, yeah, I mean, we're we're hanging around a little too long on the topic though. I think Okay I think we need to move along to the to the next next thing. Um, just save the comments or towards the end Okay, I'll put them in the thing. We'll hit them up But uh, let's move on now To ethereal I got you guys and talk about the ethereal updates So the ethereal updates Mingus can do the transition I did Oh man goose two for two. Look at me go. Look at me go progress. Let's go. It's fucking canuts over here So, um ethereal jelly gave me a video to show you guys as talos's new Uh vfx so jelly you want to take it away on talos Yeah, I mean, this is just one of the abilities, right? I'm not going to give you everything man goose It's going to go out throughout the wrong. I put the wrong video up though So Mingus I've got I've got this old man goose. I've got the actual This guy. Well, so this week guys, how about this? Uh this week on our social medias, you're going to be seeing all of talos's new vfx And your first look at new talos in game as well because he is getting a visual update as a character Um, so not what you're seeing on screen because man goose didn't put the right video up His his man goose But we will be seeing some new visual effects for talos as well as a new model in the game, which is super exciting Because talos was one of those guys he was one of the first characters ever built for ethereal And comparatively to some of the newer characters. He's definitely showing that difference in quality a little bit from Years ago to now So it's it's cool to see for sure Uh, I just changed it on the fly. I'm pretty goddamn proud of myself right now He's adopting careful Yeah, um, he's learning. He's learning the vfx are being shown On the ice lane here and that's that's really cool I love that people are getting to see the lanes a little more even though we did go a little more in depth on the The various map changes and everything So just what what video did you send me? What what are you talking about? That that's it. It's just the visual cut in that It's just one animation you you get one. That's all you get. Well, you gave it to me man goose Follow our social medias for the rest. There you go So talos was one of my absolute favorites in in the game either for I don't know what you would call it fire lane, which is kind of like the solo lane For ethereal is it? I don't know. It's kind of it keeps switching switching up as we've as we've gone through But whatever solo lane is talos makes a good solo laner, but he also makes a pretty outstanding jungler. So Yeah, oh talos jungles so much fun. It's ridiculous Yeah Oh, this is actually a really good visual on the uh, the Iceland getting a kind of a view of that because we didn't get as much of a visual on that Yeah, just just a smidge iceland iceland is cool fire lane still cooler But it goes it goes fire lane iceland and then void lane void lane needs to be more void-y void-ish void like I don't know the word for it I don't know. I need something to feel like you're in a void if you're gonna call void lane Otherwise, just call it something else. I just call it forest lane or some something like that I don't know give it something less cool sounding But if you're gonna have a cool name like void lane, then you need to have it Feel voidy the other two feel like they're zones So but that that's just my my simple feedback that i've been giving probably for a long time at this point But yeah, no, it's cool. Now dapper you're kind of just now learning about ethereal. Yeah Yeah Heard its name and from what I From what I had been told it was one of the para zombies, but you know as looking into it. It's definitely you know not It does look interesting from the first gameplay that I've seen which was about 30 minutes ago Um It looks interesting. It looks you know unique enough It doesn't look like any other of the games that I had seen From what I had heard or I think somebody mentioned to me Like the idea that the minimap only shows your zone because apparently the games in zones that I just now learned I think that's really cool because then You have to communicate more if you want to have total map pressure So that itself already seems unique and really cool to me. Um from the website It looks like they only have seven myths, which I believe is what the champions are called. They're called myths So, I know More from the game to come out. I'm excited to start looking into that project because I enjoy multiple mobas because they invite different builds different tactics different characters stuff like that So, yeah, I'm excited to learn more about it Yeah, and ethereal introduces environmental hazards into the mix too, which you don't really really Yeah, if you're in combat and you fall off the lane You're probably going to die because you're going to take pretty massive fall damage And then you have like a run who can pick people up and then throw them in whatever direction he wants So if you can catch somebody near the edge of a lane like You could throw them down for damage But if you catch them on the outside of like fire or ice lane, you just throw them off the map and they're done They're dead They're gone. Yeah that I think that makes that Extremely unique compared to everything else because you know, I don't know of mobas that have environmental hazards So if you can add that that adds another level of gameplay on top of it all To where not only you have to pay attention to your opponent and you know Either monsters or minions you have to pay attention to where you are standing And what your champion can do to either force the opponent off and make it a sumo match Or not fall off yourself and try and escape from that fate. Yeah And plus I can lend three Yeah, that can lend to so many different new style characters that maybe like When you're around an enemy, they take more environmental damage or you know a self-pull every passive like a passive cooldown Who knows you can do so much more with that because you have a unique mechanic like that So I'm definitely more excited the more I hear about this game You don't see many knockbacks in the paragon remakes, but a knockback in ethereal would be It could be so much more than just a knockback because you could just be back at somebody off of a cliff or knocking somebody into Into something else. Yeah, I think that has an inherent knockback throughout all the games. Yeah, I think he's the only one I mean we're forgetting about the the big man's alt that literally swings a huge axe and knocks Yeah, I'm gonna be honest that never really felt like an ultimate to me I Get why it is I get why it is because the displacement is massive. I looked back at one of my videos It's like, oh my god. He went really high in the air and far back and get back at some other foot I still think we need a super slugger Severog skin like just give him a baseball bat and so we can swing for the fences, dude It'd be perfect But yeah for for ethereal I can definitely see how a knockback mechanic would be potentially stronger in that sort of game Compared to other mobas in general. Yeah, there's other mobas a knockback isn't even that you know satisfying sometimes I think what's cool and we've talked about this a lot with ethereal is that the team is Open to approaching making the myths have really cool and fun kits The hard part is it's been balancing sometimes after the cool bad-ass kit comes out As jelly could tell you sometimes these guys get released into playtesting and then they're just so Dominant because they just do so many cool things all at once and then you're just like, okay Well, how can anyone out play around this? So that's obviously the challenge that comes with all that uniqueness, but But that's also really exciting Right, especially if you're a dev getting to work on these things and coming up with just Throwing any idea at the wall and see what sticks and that you have a team behind you That's like, well, let's give it a shot Like if we could make it try and make it work and and they can steal obviously or borrow ideas from other mobas And make those unique to ethereal and I know that they've already kind of done that until I'm really excited to see Obviously as this progresses more and so getting anybody new who hasn't gotten a chance like dapper to learn about ethereal There's so much cool stuff and um, yeah, it's a really exciting project Empowered rmb on crunch. Yeah, that's another knockback That one wouldn't work so well out work out so well for you in ethereal though because then you're just both going over the cliff That's me sometimes and we really consider that a knockback though. It's more of a grab that you're taking them with you Knockback is typically you stay stationary. They go flying Wait, okay, what about they get knocked back? I mean you go with them, but Steals knockback his shield bash thing. That's a bit of a knockback. Yeah You guys they're so wrong. There's so many knockbacks. Okay in all fairness. I remember over time and it wasn't a knockback Then it was a charge into and slow Yeah Yeah, that's fair. Sorry, but um, I mean when it when it comes to ethereal a character idea that immediately came to my mind That wouldn't really do much in other mobas is a character that switch places with a target Like I feel like that could be done really Interesting in ethereal that you wouldn't be able to really do much within another moba because you know positioning is great in other mobas, but Either me standing in my allies or in the anime lines might not change much depending the character kit But like in a game like this where if you're being knocked out of the ring you switch Now they're being knocked out of the ring. Yeah So I feel like there's definitely a lot they they can do with characters Oh, there was a Character in league of legends that used to do that. Do you remember and I can't think of it But I swear that was it ergot's old ultimate That's what it was ergot's old ultimate used to swap people right and it was devastating Sometimes Other times you just put yourself into the team and we're by yourself while that other guys buy themselves So it's kind of like Sounds like you'd make a perfect right click where there's a pro and a con to your ability It sure does I'm gonna kiss it in how he might oh old how he might. Yeah. Okay. There's a lot of knockbacks and beargon My bad dog Idiots this is why man goose is being replaced As far as uh balance for a theory goes I was Extremely impressed that lia felt balance if you could take a hero that can actually fucking just fly around the map like Just fucking fly Over shit and in the people and make them feel balanced and that's pretty goddamn impressive and lia actually did feel balanced She didn't feel over the other thing The other thing with ethereal that is I for lack of a better way to put it easily forgotten or not remembered Is there's an extra ability per character not including the castle the class ability That the characters it's qer f and right click as abilities not just The qer right click so it's five total abilities and you've got your class ability on top of it So there's it's a whole extra thing involved at the same time class ability Oh, that's a whole thing Yeah, and it's six v six snappers not five v five. Yeah, I I did read that as well and that I mean this game doesn't Feel like it's sticking to any sort of moba-esque thing outside of lanes Which is awesome. Which is awesome went out the window a long time ago Which can be a great thing Because that means it'll stick out more six v six What sounds like six abilities because you said the five and then the class ability So six total abilities destructible environment Destruct oh my god Oh my god, this is great. I love this this is my dream come true right here It's a very ambitious game to say the least but it's being made by people that want to make a game that stands out And is unique. It's a very much like a passion project gamers making the game It seems like more times than not so yeah Yeah, it's a real win play test win I'm just reading I'm just reading chat's mind right now. That's that's that's what's coming to them because every time we talk about ethereal Yeah, any any game that rewards customization thinking outside the box using unconventional tactics Those are the games that I enjoy because you can just do so Much with that that you wouldn't ever think of in other games So I'm excited to learn more about ethereal and hopefully I can get into some like closed behind the door play test All right, um, I think that's going to close it out for ethereal Um, let's move on in to fault now. We're going to talk about fault this week, which we don't really have That much for fault. They went to gamescom like we like we said that they were they were going to go They released a couple of twitter videos From gamescom. Um, we already talked about the patch that got that got dropped On the last ftm that kind of got unceremoniously dropped on us They didn't really advertise it at all But um the gamescom thing it didn't seem to be as Big of a deal as I thought it was going to be but they did release a gamescom exclusive bellica skin That looked really good. I think she was in the uh, the colors of the german flag and um yeah overall, um Pretty neat, uh the I think the only big thing and we talked about this on the partner panel too was There was like a quick interview with ryan read the uh the community manager for strange matter and during that he was saying that they were meeting with um Investors and publishers and all kinds of people and like they were like they were sitting on the partner panel That doesn't necessarily mean that they're looking for investors and stuff But why would you even meet with investors if you don't? Want somebody to invest in your game or why would you meet with a publisher if you don't want a Publisher so I mean sms. I mean fault has been just a a community led game a community funded game for such a long time um I don't know. What do you guys think? What how would you how would you feel? if fault kind of abandoned that whole Community funded thing and picked up an investor. I'm not saying that that's what this was about I'm not saying that's what they're doing But if they picked up a publisher if they picked up an investor, how would you guys feel about that? Let's start with Jedi this stuff Jedi. How would you feel if they they got some money if they got a foil money in? So the money part aside I think what that would mean to me is that an n investor So a third party an outside person looking on the inside getting to kind of dissect feels like it's worth investing in so That would be exciting If I'm a community member because that means that somebody else outside of the game that I've already been playing In the dev team says we want to put money into this. We want to invest into this and make it better or give you more resources so That's good The other side of that right as we know with a lot of games that get outside investors is that when you Have to now start answering to a mommy or to a daddy Things start changing that maybe aren't always in the community's best interest With that being said we already have fucking loot boxes in the game so they can go Anyway I don't have an exact thought of like great. So the bad guy is going to be fault already because they've already done the thing that these corporations But that's going to do big deal. There we go So, uh, yeah, that's that's I mean again It's exciting if that's the case that they have somebody who's willing to invest in the project and Obviously gives them an opportunity to stay and remain relevant as these other two games get closer to early access Um, I don't know if it'll be enough now That's obviously in fault's court to figure out how to continue to make the game better. Um, But yeah, that's that's my take. Uh puppets hot. Thank you so much for the super chat. We will get to that Just not right now. We're going to continue with this conversation Then I'll uh, I'll come back to that to the cc question you had there uh dapper, what do you think if uh fault picked up a uh Picked up investors or a publisher So I picked up fault right before free to play didn't enjoy it free to play happened Then I started to enjoy it. So I've not been around the fault community too terribly long. So if they picked up an investor I think overall would be a good thing because From the community the community itself A lot of people already have bad blood with sms Especially from what I've seen and heard from free being on the partner panel and listening to some of them So only getting more resources in terms of funding or more people You can only dislike them so much more if that's what the community would dislike, you know, they already had loot boxes, which In my opinion didn't add anything. All it did was add the lesser orbs Those are free anyway, like they have the prime core and prime keys But I never see a reason to get those because you get orbs often enough. So It's not even really funding adding those loot boxes because I don't see a reason to buy them So having an investor would only help and from, you know, my outside perspective of They seem like they need resources They aren't getting them from the community because no one's buying loot boxes They're not getting them internally from what I'm aware of But I I just think overall would be helpful because that seems like resources are the things that sms lacks So if they're able to get that Awesome, you know, they can start Doing something with it If it's what they want, awesome. If it's what somebody else above them wants, well, we probably never know jelly, what do you think? So I think viking touched on an important thing that we've seen with predecessor as an example Is that when you get outside investment and you disclose? Hey, we've received outside investment, whether it be the four million dollars or the 20 million dollars There's a sense of legitimacy applied to the game Overnight right that it says well if other people are willing to invest that much money Into this thing clearly there's something worth investing in Right and that that's just automatic in a lot of people's minds So that's one aspect of searching for investment But in general indie games become for lack of a better way to put it a big successful company in two different ways They are massively successful as an indie game that everybody's out there spreading their name like wildfire. They're on twitter They're doing all of these things. They have hundreds of thousands of players In example, like a pub g right where they they became a big company because of their success And their name became huge because of that success The flip side of excuse me flip side of that is you get acquired by a big company or Invested in by a big company to make you Get to that level of success for instance if epic games buys a game And puts out a big marketing campaign that they've purchased this game Or they're hosting it on epic games only in all of these things that is a whole different sense of legitimacy applied to that game Because of that epic games backing directly So between those two things I do think that is the next logical step for fault If they're going to continue development into the future And we've seen that they are not going to blow up just as an individual Company from a community perspective So the next step would be to look for outside investment or publishers to then push them to that goal via that market as well I think if they if they do pick up investors or a publisher or just just a large sum of money somehow Somehow the community is suddenly invests a large sum of money in default if that happens The main thing is they need to get their shit together because that's kind of been their excuse for so far like everybody says Oh, well, they can't do all these skins or they can't do all these great animations Or they can't do this or they can't do that because they're community funded And it's kind of been it's been an excuse and it's been um A bit of a rallying flag for them as well Like they are the community funded the community controls the success of this game That's kind of a nice tag to have But if they do get money They need to get their shit together because we've seen time and time again that sms gets in false way Like sms will drop the ball Constantly we saw it recently with the eggy and scorch patch Um, that's a huge patch. They've hyped every other hero. They've done like trailers and all sorts of stuff They did nothing for eggy and scorch Nothing at all. Just not even a mastery race. What do you mean? They added a movie where he's in Yeah They made an entire movie Just to advertise this character. Yeah, and then wait a month to release him. Yeah, exactly So I was thinking about it with and I agree with you man goose about gamescom The way That it felt like going into it was that they there was something more happening with fault at gamescom than what did happen Yeah, um, whether that's uh, the community's faults their fault probably a mix of both Um, is what it is I think that's the reason though that the eggy patch got dropped on us with nothing with no fanfare Is they didn't want to get to gamescom and have it not happen Because they weren't doing something bigger at gamescom. There's no there's no video They're doing at gamescom where it's like and fault elder orb and new character and blah blah blah, right? So the whole community is going to go into gamescom expecting this and be drastically let down So it's better to just here. Here's the hero before gamescom. We're done. Please don't expect this from us That way they don't have to worry about that bad press going into gamescom or coming out Because he doesn't have internet. That's what we figured out the germany doesn't have internet. So therefore they couldn't really I made the joke after the partner panel. This is a bit of a distasteful joke And i'm still considering whether I should actually say it live or not I'm gonna go ahead and say it I don't think they did a mastery race because they didn't want to be in the middle of germany talking about a mastery race Oh my god, wow Oh Just more reasons why mangoose is not going to be hosting ftm ever again Seriously, right? Jesus mangoose the final show everybody All right, well, I mean Well, here's the thing about fault as well Is like how bad can it be if they're building esport teams apparently esports teams apparently because that was also kind of Casually drops during the tweet during the twitter post as well. They they casually mentioned like oh, yeah, we've got esports team Forming and they're excited to meet new players and see what they can do Like that was casually mentioned during that gamescom tweet Yeah, by the way I think this is what bums me out And this is something that goes back to a lot of what mangoose has talked about before about like, you know That fault continues to be or sms continues to be like that guy that you bring over to someone's house And they just you know Take a big shit on the floor or something I don't know I don't remember his whole story about things and and like it has sex with his daughter or something I don't know. Anyway, I don't know the whole It's got a lot worse I don't know the joke that he always says but honestly Like because that patch the patch that they released most recently is a good fucking patch To me like it had so many good things like it had like so many quality of life improvements for new players Thinking and scorch comes out who's super fun to play. Um, I just it It just bothers me. I think as I've gotten more and more invested in like all of these Games as they get ready to come out that they continue to shit on the floor and fuck daughters, you know, it just isn't right It's piss of the fridge and fuck their wife. That's what it was. Yeah, okay. There you go There you go. Um, all right then. I mean, you know overall, uh sms is Still around Fault Fault is trying, uh, it feels like sometimes. Um, fun fact, they're doing a hot fix later tonight, uh, because apparently Uh, Mattie just crossbow was one of the items was working, uh unintended in a way, but hey Hotfix tonight, so they're you know, they're paying attention. Yeah to some extent So, you know, good on them But it's also still upsetting that people didn't talk about the other new character that got added Richter You know, I'm also secretly hoping If they do get this investor that that part of the discussion for this investor is kind of cleaning that shit up Right, like that's what you would hope as a community member is it's like, okay They've got somebody else. It's like overlooking. They're gonna hire maybe some more people to come in and kind of like Clean some of these aspects up and let the guys who were brought on to be devs focus on being devs rather than You know quote-unquote community managers or whatever, you know Like they couldn't actually just Focus on trying to make the game as best as possible. Um, the idea would hopefully be that they don't lose, you know the Connection that we all feel to them that they're, you know, were funded by all of us but I mean even like We mentioned or uh, you talked about, uh, uh, you know other games getting bought or starting out as indie devs But they all get bought out, you know So blue hole, you know came in and bought out, you know players unknown, you know And the game did change a little bit after that But they got massive funding to make the servers better and the quality game became so much better The game, you know went through ups and downs But it's still a wildly successful game, you know and as a dev for that game I would feel like man, we really You know did our thing league of legends at one point was an indie dev, you know Now they're owned by tencent and all that other stuff, but um, I don't think that having a Another company come in and provide that funding is inherently a bad thing as long as you get to like riot did Keep some of the, you know control over how the game works That the big daddy funder is just that you get to profit off of our success and our our vision So if sms can keep that as part of the fun, um, you know bringing on a partner, that's fine I'm okay with it Plus there's corporate accountability behind that if you are going to have investors If you are going to have people helping you then obviously not only do you have a higher standard within your community Now you literally have a higher standard by a company funding you and making sure that your game thrives So that does multiple things it shows that this game is worth investing in it shows the community that hey We've got the funding that we've been asking for so we can start putting on that But then they also have the company holding them accountable like we're investing in you make sure you do something with this So that's always good as well. What what it's your guys is take on ruba's comment I think we should get to pop's comment first. Yeah. Oh, okay fine cover pop's comment Um, how much cc should be acceptable in a moba smite at the time I left had a hard time balancing it Paragon had plenty, but it didn't feel miserable for some reason Maybe not enough characters with hard cc to get stun locked. Um This is an interesting question because I think a lot of people in paragon's lifespan Did have an unreasonably hard time with cc I think it's because they hadn't played a lot of mobas and they didn't know how much cc is normally in a moba Like cc is a pretty normal thing. I think paragon had a pretty healthy um Amount of cc and I don't think the cc like they Balanced it out quite a bit and then you had characters like yin that were anti cc You had characters like terra that would that were anti cc um I think paragon did the wrong thing by entered by trying to balance by introducing new heroes that specifically countered the meta, but um overall They they had a diminishing returns on the cc. So it didn't it never felt as bad as some other mobas I've played Um, what did what did you guys take on cc? A diminishing returns on cc is a big one. Honestly, I think that's helps with paragon a lot Is that there were a lot of characters with cc in paragon and a lot of long cc abilities That because of those diminishing returns You didn't feel so like against the cc in the game because of it, right? Like it's so easy in other mobas that you walk into a team fight and then congratulations You spend three seconds staring at your screen smashing your keyboard trying to cast an ability Because you've been cc'd the whole time and very rarely in paragon did it ever feel that way So I think I'm not going to apply like a percentage I'd have to really think about it more of like what cc uptime looks like I think decker and predecessor is not it, but that's a whole other topic of conversation You don't know yet. You don't know yet. You're right. I don't I don't know yet I feel like the uptime is a little nuts, but we'll see But I do think there's a fine line to travel of Who gets cc? How much cc and what are the compensation factors for cc that have to be figured out? Yeah, when it comes to cc, I think a good way to balance it is What's the kill time in the game because you can have a two second stun Which is a lot depending the game in a game like fault where you can be two shot Two seconds means you literally don't get to play the game in any capacity In over prime when you were doing either a 1v1 or a 2v1 a two second stun Gives you plenty of time to react because the time to kill wasn't insanely fast So if if it's just going to be a two second stun into 1.5 seconds done is 3.5 seconds If the survivability is long enough, you know, that's not too big of an issue But if in like fighting games hits done where the more you're hit the less effective it is You know that could be a good way to balance it too if the kill if the time to kill is decently high So I think that just kind of depends to how Durable the characters are if they're weaker than diminishing returns if they're you know, everyone's decently healthy a flat cc is fine But I do think games need to implement more ways outside of just a flat stun like you know a roux a charm fear whatever Various ways but instead of it just being a and now take your hand off the keyboard for the next so many seconds You can't do anything You know if they can find new ways to cc that would be awesome And I do want to add that I don't think You should remove the ability for teams to coordinate cc Right where if my team is we all have all five of us are all six of us in ethereal's case Have some form of cc and we layer that cc accordingly Well, there is a certain amount that we should be rewarded for that because we actually timed those things correctly And that I don't want that to be taken away I don't think you should just make it that like if there's no reason to have multiple ccs because that'll just feel worse Um, I think that's an important thing to add is that there still should be reward in coordinating cc I'll also just quickly add that because I agree with everything you guys have mentioned But um, I think with like these pair of zombies or third person mobas That are at least out right now is there's a lot less point and click cc Almost all the cc into itself still requires like a skill shot of some kind So you have to be able to It's not just like so easy as pressing the button and now that person cc'd like in other games where it's you know That cc can be that way there are a few and in uh, the pair of zombies that have that but it's not as prevalent Um, and I completely agree with uh ruba saying that it's more important to give Your players the ability to handle cc than it is to control the cc into itself And I kind of think that there's you know, there's probably a give and take on both of those But I agree that giving people the ability to flash or to cleanse or to go into a stasis or any of those things Which are already and I think most of these games if not all of them, um, those things can help with cc so I think it's rewarding cc opportunities based on skill More times than not and rewarding skill for removing cc Or dodging the cc That's really to me where it comes down more so than the actual cc itself Although fears and all those other things are fun and charms and all that stuff Those are just cool fun ways of doing the cc. But yeah, and that's my take on it. But good question Yeah, I don't think paragon two just they had ways to deal with cc. However They weren't ways that you could like just cleanse a cc Like you have purity sensor that would cleanse everybody of a status effect Um, and it would prevent you from getting cc'd if you used it prior to getting cc'd like you couldn't Get stunned and then use purity sensor to get out of it. Uh, same with hunter's guile You couldn't just get stunned and then hit hunter's guile and just be out of the stun No, you had to see that rampage rock coming hit hunter's guile Take the damage from it but still get through it. You know what I mean? Um So that's I think one of the reasons a lot of people complain and paragon about cc Now, I don't know about smite. Like, uh, pops thought I was talking about, uh About smite. I don't know about smite cc situation because I just didn't really play smite that much Well, I think smite, um, and I didn't play it a lot a lot But I played a decent amount smite I think has a lot more point and click type cc which can make it more oppressive Because their skill sets are a lot more point and click There's not there's some that are absolutely skill shots, but they do have the opportunity To create more point and click. It's the same thing in league of legends league of legends With cc they struggle actually and I think it's too exactly what rubah's talking about having Champions that are really good with cc and dashes and all those things that they're They're so oppressive that it then you have to start damp You know Adjusting numbers and doing all that other stuff which league has struggled with and which is why I think they've gotten a lot Better more over more recently, but um balancing around cc with point and click cc abilities is so hard Because it's just there's nothing anyone could do about it. Literally. I pressed button I didn't have to express any skill other than getting in range to press said skilled. So That that makes it tough for sure. And I think that's more prevalent in smite than it was in paragon or any of these pairs of zombies Cool Good conversation Uh, I think uh, I think we're going to ignore rubah's comment comment though and move into predecessor I mean, that's fine. We we ignored we ignored bearded earlier and waxed earlier If you want to ignore rubah's now and then come back to him later, that's fine I'm writing them all down in our in our thing. So I run this shit You do Yeah, I'll get canceled for that germany thing. Um No, let's go ahead move into predecessor So predecessor this week released um the new sound effects and animations for their jump pads and the jump pad animations look Fantastic, there's screen shake when you land. Um the sound effect. I think it sounds good But as I pointed out to you guys, I immediately thought whenever I heard the sound effect that it sounds like a t-shirt cannon And now I can't get it out of my head every time I watched I watched the video, but T-shirt cannon. I'm amazed you didn't get a video from mangoos Overlaying a t-shirt cannon over the shooter every time it goes off Because that's I mean, that's a peak mangoos video right there. All right But uh the animation though is smooth like you get that's the great thing about predecessors animations is You don't just go from like Stop to go like stop to go or you don't just go from this and like you're in this pose and now you're in this pose Like everything is a smooth fluid transition and you see that with the jump pad animations You see them kind of burst up and when you see them land There's actually an actual landing. They've got the screen shake and and it feels like you're landing from a big massive jump That's definitely I think predecessors biggest strong point for me personally Is the immersion you get from the way they've blended their animations and uh everything all the work that they've done there Uh dapper. Did you see this video? What did you think of it? So I did see the video and you know watching it again As you have it playing there. Uh, there's you know, two things that I immediately notice Uh One each character actually braces for landing. It's very hard to tell if you're not looking for it Yeah, each character in their own way braces for landing fate is a barrel roll to get into the position A lot of characters bend their knees But more than that they have a landing animation as well to where they recoil on landing Where they're like crouched a little bit and then stand up as they go. Um The camera shakes a little bit too. Yeah, the camera shakes a little bit showing their actual impact there. Um Which is awesome. You know each character with any any of the jump pads so far They have their own animations being mid-air and whatnot, which is already cool. You know, that's in most games though but for this You know, the audio sounds good the animations obviously showing that that's what makes predecessors its own thing Is the amount of detail in the animations. So, you know, it looks interesting Uh predecessors actually the third paragon remake that I started to learn about So, you know, I'm starting to learn about it more But from what I've seen so far it definitely seems like You know, it's gonna be a good project I'm excited to eventually try it out for the first time because me too when I haven't had the ability to test Same ruba. You need some testers Just for fun for fun these Hey, we can show new stuff on the partner panel and FTM FTM We're partners of uh, uh predecessor now. Thank you for making us partners Ah, we appreciate you accepting our application It's it's free advertisement. You literally pay us nothing and we just play the game because that's what we want soon I mean for for people who have played fault and people that have played over prime I would say predecessors a happy medium in between the two I think that's what it looks like from the videos I've seen where it seems uh, you know visually More advanced and you know keep some of the brawling aspects from the little bit that I had seen But it's it's more tactical than over prime. I'd say from what I've seen so far I also think this speaks a little bit to what we were talking about with fault about getting funding and Seeing an improvement and that's something that since they got their funding They've released a decent amount of content since then Um, and it's all been really really good Like it's like it feels like I mean we watched some of the old videos and seeing this these some of these newer videos and there's a Quality shift like I didn't think that the old videos were even that bad to begin with But there definitely has been improvements in some of the minor details But things that will make an impact like you know some of these camera shakes shakes and the sound quality and the visual It just it helps it makes your game more fun and enjoyable to be in if you're going to spend 30 to 45 minutes in the game You want to feel like you're doing it and going across those jump pads and having that because over prime has it too It does that like kind of like zoom out and then zooms back in kind of feel and it's kind of cool And it feels visceral and powerful and fast. This one has a very Similar feel but unique to itself and I I'm really really excited about it. It continues to impress me that they've They got the money and they're putting the money at least as far as I can tell putting the money into the project in a good way Hopefully not just as some ceo's pocket, you know what I mean? So not in the smoky's pocket smoky. Yeah, exactly. Yeah smoky gosh People working on it nice The fluidity I think is what sets Really sets predecessor apart from the other ones and it's not just the fluidity of the animations But fluidity of targeting just everything you do in predecessors feels just a little bit better than the other ones I think over prime looks a little bit better like a little more fantastic and over the top cool Fault is a little more thought out. Um, but they're Fault's kind of behind the other two as far as visuals. I think but um Yeah, but pred's definitely They're they're at the top as far when it comes to just sheer fluidity of the gameplay But uh Shit, yeah, do you guys have anything else to say about oh, yeah, yeah Predecessor was also at gamescom. They were also at gamescom. Um, they were handing out stickers I guess uh ace and somebody else was there. I didn't I didn't quite look but So their internet worked Well, they're not an indie company they can afford it. Oh fair fair. They brought they brought their own internet. They just like brought it with It's a little hot spot. It's a little hot spot. Yeah dirty porker 69 I gotta answer this real quick Project stamina is a bit on the back burner right now if you guys didn't know there was a gigantic Resurrection project if you guys remember the game gigantic it was called project stamina. There was a big blow up within the company. Um They shifted the heads of the departments around so I have no updates For almost a year now on project stamina. So I'm very sorry if uh if I do get something to cover on that I'll uh, I'll put a video out on it, but Yeah, I just wanted to I have to say something because I've watched this video now. This is totally not too dirty parker 69 great name By the way, but uh, I'm not a fan of the out of range thing that pops up on the ui I didn't notice it before I just saw it now when there's when she was shooting out into nothing It was saying out of range every time she shot. I do not like that I don't like being told that I'm out of range like I don't want to see that every time Did you guys see that in one of the videos? It was All right, whatever you guys can pay attention to it or not. I don't know. I mean you're you're good. Um, I I do think it's unnecessary Because obviously if I'm not getting damage numbers, I'm out of range So, you know I can see why that would be helpful, but I can also see why it's just unnecessary information They have hit markers That's the weird thing if you have hit markers in your game if I'm hitting I'm in range if I'm not hitting I'm out of range or I'm missing like it's very intuitive Yeah, if you've got hit markers If you've got damage numbers that show up if you've got effects that go off There's a visible marker on the ground showing the distance if you have all of that. I don't think you need to say you're not in range Don't be hating on features aimed at new players. Listen, dude, that's one. I don't think it will help them A constant reminder that they're out of range after they hit, you know, the auto attack I think I mean from what I had seen of the ui one It looks like the like it looks similar to the old paragon Ui from what I've seen of older videos, which I think that's cool But there's already so much on screen with the with the Abilities at the bottom the passives there your health bar your mana bar the items your stats bar bar timer minimap Some words appearing on the middle of the screen might go unnoticed. Yeah, it's helpful to new players But there's already so much going on They might just not notice that or they might like, huh, why am I not hitting maybe I should get closer All right, fine. You know what? I will I will agree to disagree I guess because they're saying that it there's people who rage quit I guess tyler one played paragon back in the day and couldn't figure out where his autos were going until he stopped playing and so Okay, that's fair. I mean, but you have hit markers. You have a range indicator on the ground I don't know. Maybe you know what fine. Give it to the new player. Is it is it toggleable? Can I turn it off my quest? There you go. If I can turn it off. I have no complaints actually That's that's fine. Just give me the option to turn it off because it just I think it would drive me nuts Because I'm somebody I have ADHD so I can't sit in lane and just stand there. I'm gonna I'm always pressing buttons. I'm jumping I'm you know auto attacking for no reason. It would drive me nuts if every time I it either made A noise or that auto out of range thing popped up. I would just be like I think the only time it should trigger is when you are actively looking at the opponent and trying to hit them I think that would be a good time to show up. Yeah, because if you're just firing your auto and that shows up Yeah, that's That's not great If it's just whenever you take an auto shot Like if you if you're looking at an opponent, that would probably be the best time to do it or or actively at a target So Ruma's coming if you don't miss autos, why would it ever show? True true I mean real quick jelly blast from the past year. Do you guys know about king's hunt? That is another roga. I thought I was put on to by y'all. Um I haven't played king's hunt in a long time. What's the last time you played king's hunt jelly? Uh, it's been quite some time. Their announcements have become fewer and far between. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that one's slowly dying out It was fun while it lasted. Um, I didn't like the slug thing that they added in towards the end, but uh I don't know. I haven't heard anything about king's hunt in a long while and I'm sorry. Sorry for that, but He would he would hate starcraft Plus I'm just not good at it. I can't play starcraft after watching korean Like tournaments and starcraft and how fast they're hitting all those like Hotkeys or whatever. They're not even looking at as they're moving stuff. They just start moving things on and I can't do it It's too much. It's too much. Um, all right, so craft though, right? You didn't have you ever played a rogue and heard not enough energy not enough. Yes Sorry, I turned so the good thing about world of warcraft is you can get you can get things that turn that stuff off You can put them, you know what I mean and I did I played rogue actually now He drove me nuts the not enough energy thing. Um, well, I think we have other questions that weren't paid to win Is bearded like to point out. Um, do you want to cover those? I did put them in the in the document for you Yeah, let's let's go ahead and cover those and then we'll start then we'll move on to our discussion topic I mean, uh, I'll just randomly play. I'll just switch over to uh, so actually I'm gonna address Bearded's question real quick while you're doing this Do you guys think over prime is racing against predecessor with their EA release or their early access release? There's an aspect that it feels like they're playing chicken with each other That it feels like we're waiting for each other that they could be like, okay, wait Hold everybody hold and then the second predecessor announced something over Rob's gonna be like and us We're also coming out too and console and like all it's dude Well, you know what it was Like you think that they're they see themselves as direct competition because they're both not out yet like and that's their They're gonna play out that I think they've definitely seen how faults were uh continuing to go through their development Yeah, and are definitely for lack of a better way to put it more worried about Each other than they are of faults in that mix I think they wait for ethereal and I'm basing that one. I'll let you guys remember The the the pre alpha test that we had for ethereal like They announced them like well in advance, but every single time like one of them was like fault was like, hey, free weekend this weekend Yes, god, honestly, like the next one was like predecessor closed painted test It's like everybody's just out to get ethereal I actually think uh jalei lenio. That's also a fun name. Uh Because over prime knows pride is the biggest competition I actually think at least well if I were over prime or if I was pred I wouldn't see them as competition in the direct sense because the games are are still From it from a gameplay stance. They're so different I don't think that they're gonna see each other as direct necessarily competition although initially especially The release of both of them will probably have players being siphoned one way or the other But the people who are going to enjoy over prime More are not going to necessarily Be leaving to go and play pred and vice versa pred is going to keep the pred players and in over prime And I actually think just by us three sitting here We're gonna probably play between the two of them if I'm if I'm guessing right like if pred actually feels good to play on as more like strategic, you know Super like giga brain type, you know moba style But it's still super fun to play. I'm gonna play predecessor if I want to play something. It's a lot more fast paced and kind of Ridiculous and and like really just get to flex on people I'm probably gonna play over prime and I don't have a problem going back and forth between the two if they're both fun You know what I mean like I think and they both have ambitions and Capabilities of becoming e-sports like if they again can get to the player base That's large enough to support them, but I think that they both can Um I actually think and this might be crazy. There's a world where they kind of like become One big happy family and that would be wild, but I think it could be Just saying I think the biggest thing is the initial release, right? Long term it won't matter which one releases first But initially there will be a major difference and there will be a siphoning of players For whichever releases second right even however minuscule and if that resets fine if it doesn't reset That's the problem, but long term matters less It's going to be that initial release to be able to say we had 50 000 players on our initial release versus Two weeks later when predecessor released. We only had five like it's it's determining that initial scale for both of them Damn only five players were predecessor. That's a shame And I I disagree that that that people are they're fighting over paragon players to be honest I think either paragon players are just going to be happy to play one of the the games or they're no longer interested Anyway, both of these games need to be focused on new players And that's really where they're going to be able to survive. Go ahead predecessor is fighting for paragon players Overprime is not Yeah, maybe if that's the yeah Yeah, exactly. That's that's predecessor's community right now. Whereas it is not overprime's community That's the core difference is it matters less to overprime what the paragon people do Because they've got their whole eastern audience that doesn't care Right that that's they but predecessor is Paragon right that that community They're one one to one almost for a lot of those people which can it makes a big difference, right? Yeah and a lot of people I don't want to shit on fault, but there's a lot of people playing fault right now because they can't play predecessor Like yeah, they want a paragon remake and they want it to be predecessor But right now the only thing out there available to play every day is fault So they're kind of playing fault. I don't think that's fair to fault I think fault has its and fault does have its fans that are More into fault than they would be predecessor and I think fault deserves that but We've seen what happens when predecessor has a closed beta test like everybody Goes over and plays predecessors, right? It's like and then that's the thing You know obviously best case scenario all four of the games we've talked about today Survive in their own accords, you know fault players get fault Prad gets pride over from gets over prime ethereal will be amazing later And you know people will shift in between and I think that'd be awesome because I don't You know there are some people But I do think a majority of the players are like If they want this game, that's what they're going to get if you know, nobody's asking for other games to fail I mean, obviously there are but like a majority of the people aren't like actively saying I hope this game fails But like all three should survive Will they it's kind of up in the air but You know optimally all three should be able to you know live in their own sort of It's gonna be like living in a neighborhood, you know each person gets their own house Though they might share the same cul-de-sac, you know, who knows? I think I think using that same analogy rent or mortgages are too high for all three. I you you there's not enough There's not enough for them all to survive. Um, I I think that two can maybe survive I think to be honest, this is this is the brutal brutal truth Is that all three have a very hard uphill battle to surviving The the space that they're trying to occupy is one that is already even from the big guys Like, you know, if you look at league of legends and dota are seeing numbers decrease The moba genre as itself is starting to lose numbers So the third person moba space is only is dominated right now by one game and that's smite and they get around 15 to 20,000 concurrent players each day if any of these pair zombies want to survive They have to get to as close to that number or exceeding it as possible There's not been anything that showcases that any of these three can reach that big of an audience Yet now maybe they can but not not in a not dude the play tests did not bring in Tens and thousands of players they brought in thousands but not tens of thousands and definitely not concurrently It's not like they everybody who started playing that game was so blown away that they played it for the entirety of the play test so That's where I mean, that's just me being brutally honest. I want to see These games survive because I like them. I've always wanted and that's how I became, you know Involved in these this project in the first place is I've wanted to see a third person moba That's not smite be better because I liked paragon. I thought paragon was super cool In theory the game execution was sometimes not always great But that's the same thing with these ones and so that That uphill battle is going to be what they have to challenge in the first place to be able to survive at all I think it's fair to point out that a lot of paragon success and Definitely a lot of smite success is console The reason for that success is that they were available on console. So if any of the People say it all the time that it's a race to cons. It's not really a race to ea. It's a race to console You know console first and I think that's kind of true Yeah, when it comes to No, go ahead. Deborah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah when it comes to concurrent viewer or players And figuring out, you know player base. It's very difficult when it comes to Testing because I don't remember where I heard this from but like the idea that tests will obviously will probably have higher Bloated numbers is because they're limited time Everyone's gonna rush to go play that everyone's gonna go do that Um, because you know, it's only up for so long So it's gonna be hard to judge actual numbers when it comes to playing until they come out And we can actually just straight up get those numbers because um, you know as viking mentioned There's such a high competition in terms of like you need to estimate it get around this But I think that shouldn't be too much of an issue because smite Is a MOBA that has a third person camera and lets you use WSD Other than that, I've seen it as like a traditional MOBA where it's right You know, it's its own thing while from what I've seen a predecessor fault and even over prime They have such different play styles than smite ever really would have From what I've played either. So I think this is a good, you know, sort of that next generation of MOBA thing coming out Um, because you know, a lot of people come from shooter backgrounds these days So, you know, these are games that potentially reward that sort of Aggressive play that reward that you know hitting your shots that reward all of those things So I think that there's a high chance that This will bring in a new wave of MOBA players because yes, the MOBA genre is falling But that's also because we haven't gotten anything new since League or smite really like you don't really hear about other MOBAs that have come out in between then And if so, they were small projects like, you know So this is here's the storm I forgot that was a game Well, to be honest, like I mean we've talked about this before on on ftm like it hot had The biggest gaming company basically or one of the biggest big game backing it trying to get into this space In the MOBA space and Struggled to do so like it had a huge influx of people initially But to retain those players and keep it active, obviously it didn't work It couldn't even keep an esports, you know Moving and the because it just wasn't entertaining for people to watch consistently. So, um, I I think it's That's why I I mean again just being brutally honest. I think it's going to be a very very high Hill mountain you maybe decline in the first place for any of these three games Now that's also guessing that it's going to be immediate success like that Over time, you know, maybe they make it work, but um, it is going to prove difficult Now maybe they have a different measurement of success and maybe esports and all that other stuff Is just like a cool ambition maybe hitting a five to ten thousand concurrent player base is more than okay for them And they're just that's enough to support their ecosystem and continue making a game that they're passionate about but when you're looking at like The investment that predecessor has gotten the investment that over prime has gotten. I don't think that those those Companies are looking for Five to ten thousand concurrent players. I think they're looking for Big number of players. So fun fact during over prime cbt2 Fifteen thousand five hundred seventy-five concurrent Players throughout the whole thing Yes, that was day one. That was day one. Was that day one? Yeah, that was day one And then if they had And then it fell off pretty hard. I think it was to about nine thousand by the end Okay So but a lot of people did try it three hundred fifty six thousand people tried it Yeah, and again, that's not saying that I didn't I mean, I loved playing over prime. First of all, I played it the whole time That it was up. I played it almost every single day. It was super fun. I'm just saying that it's like to keep the The push going like I don't know. Maybe I'm being too Harsh about it, but that's just how I'm seeing it. I think the gaming space in general is difficult to crack And they need I think they need to really invest in marketing and making sure that they get some You know high caliber streamers involved in playing their game and get a lot of eyeballs on it When it comes to early access, you know, get some get some shooters Some guys who play, you know, third-person shooters in playing this game You know get some tyler ones to play the game again Do anything to to try and get the name out there in front of As many millions of people as you can like hood, for example was Initially flying under the radar. They got some of the biggest streamers on twitch like shroud lyric To play the game And the game shot up Huge massive numbers now granted it fell off pretty hard because the game struggled to keep up with the demand that they brought on But um, you know, I think that's what you need and that's the only way in my opinion They're really going to be able to crack into the big numbers. Anyway, we're getting off way off subject here. I think Well, we never we didn't even crack into the topic for the for the night Which is uh, it kind of applies to the stuff that we've been saying though, which is true They they've all all all the games have had different release strategies And they all have different popularities right now Right now. I think predecessor is by far the most popular and anticipated game in north america e.u Whereas over prime is by far the most looked anticipated game in asia I think um fault falls well below Both of them right now as far as interest even though the game's out Um, you know, we we won't know once all the games are out You know how that's gonna how that's gonna pan out but just sheer popularity being realistic fault is way less popular than either predecessor or over prime and then um ethereal I think not a not a lot of people know about ethereal but People ethereal fans are hardcore, but I don't think it's as popular yet But because they just don't they're they're not near the others as far as coming out yet. So Already in that camp. So definitely hardcore I think a lot of it has to do with the release strategies too. So sure with predecessor you had there Was it 2019 they had that that in march 2019 they had their very first alpha and it sucked It was bad And then they just went silent for like a fucking entire year like they didn't really interact with the community at all but After that year They came back with a fan fucking tastic product and it blew everybody's socks off Overprime on the other hand you had overthrow which rocket mania was kind of doing which is sort of overprime but not really but then you know, they transitioned the transitioned into overprime and they had the um The the peer-to-peer servers for the game and then they had to they had two different maps and they had three maps They had one one a one lane 3v3 aramap and then they had a monolith and a legacy map And they had all these heroes that all this going for them But the game itself was fairly hard to download So it was cool that they had a free game out before everybody else But it kind of left a bad taste in people's mouths because there it was hard for them to download And install and it was hard for them to even play after they downloaded it installed when they're Whenever they you know, they kind of went back and forth with having actual servers and then you have fault that Went pretty much straight into the early access and we've been able to play and watch their the development Like the stuff that predecessor did behind the scenes We've been able to watch that with fault But that might be a reason that they haven't come as far as they have and it might be a reason for their current That currently why they're not as popular because people You know got a bad taste in their mouth from seeing The the poor sides of fault And they haven't went back to check up on to see how much it's come along and then ethereal has had Not a lot of news they've had a couple of um Beta tests and I don't know how that's going to affect ethereal going forward Because a lot of people looked at those tests and they were like well this game is just not near finished While other ones looked at it were like holy shit. This game has a lot of potential So it's kind of split right there if it was a good thing for the for them to do those beta tests or not so I don't know. It's just I think interesting that they've all had such a different strategy Oh, absolutely. And I think one of the things That is currently functioning to ethereal's benefit and dapper I'm going to use you as the prime example here because you this this was my thought going in and you kind of Kind of reassured me on it is That when you talk to players about what ethereal is some of the potential of ethereal, right? They look like dapper did when we talked about it on this show Right like that that kind of like what like you can do what like what what do you mean? That's a thing you can do, right? And so while I would agree with you that ethereal is the lowest on the popularity poll of these four games I don't think that's to ethereal's detriment in the current state of progress that ethereal's in Right that that's and that's where I think a lot of these games got mixed up And I think core is a prime example of that I think early predecessor before they went silent and they had their first test as an example of that Right that like having the right audience and the right expectations for where you're at in development is a huge huge huge deal Right that then if those concepts for ethereal come to fruition and can be fully fleshed out Then when the players do learn about it, they say yes, you can't you can do that. Yes, you can Here's how you play right like it's it's that chain reaction of bang bang boom right into the game instead of And being such an extreme of the 3d mobile market as well I think is is one of those things that's very different comparatively to the paragon successors I want to echo I agree with the ethereal comment because I do think that when people hear or see some of the stuff That's coming out from ethereal It's easy to get excited about the potential of it, right? And so while it is a bit more of like a slow burn at this point just because really Most dev teams and we've talked about this before in ethereal's place probably wouldn't even be putting out content about their game yet But because ethereal is trying to slowly but surely generate You know people who might be interested in this and maybe even get more involved with the community and all that fun Stuff they're they're putting stuff out, which I think is great I I love communication from from devs that i'm you know excited to see um, and I think that kind of ties into Kind of what rubo was asking about the iggy release. He said Does it not make more sense that iggy was due to release the same time as one up But was delayed which is why the promo material didn't happen And I think that this goes along with a lot of anything else that's in development If the player base knows that something is there or something and it doesn't it can't come out for whatever reason right Using iggy for example. Hey, do you know what? We play tested iggy stuff was breaking when we really wanted to release him as part of one up Because the you know the movie was coming out and we know you guys are really excited about it But he's not quite ready and we want to give you a finished product Okay Communication received. It's a bummer Sorry, same thing with richter richter getting pulled out and almost nothing told about why just he's pulled No, you can't play him. Why what's going on? Oh, well his hook is actually breaking the game for whatever reason after the last patch and we can't figure out Why yet so we're having to you know look into code or whatever. Oh Okay, cool. That makes sense But there's not that's so to me That's the big stuff with any of these things as far as like release or bungling releases or doing anything Like he knows these games come out Giving the player base that you're trying to get excited about your game more information That's in a in a smart way, right? You don't necessarily need to be full doors open give them all of the information but You need people being and most players or gamers are gonna understand that. Oh, there's a bug Okay. Well, yeah, that makes sense as to why you would pull the champion or that why you delayed the release or whatever It's fine Like just be a bond up front honest I guess with the the people and this is more towards fault than it is towards the other guys because the other Guys aren't even released yet So they can kind of be a little bit more mysterious that they want to fault out as far as we're concerned, right? They're in early access technically, but they're basically an out game. You can download right now play the game They should be as they should be way more leading the charge as far as communication with their players And I feel like they dropped the ball in that go ahead To backpack off that That's something that was definitely in my mind as we were talking about these release strategies And in the history of you know, how the community has received each of these games I think what Causes this disconnect is all three of them and then ethereal Are, you know based off of paragon So with all of them running, you know around the same pace All of them planning to enter or already have entered Early access this year People expect all of the progress to be simultaneous despite the fact that Different companies are working at different speeds and have different focuses But more than that, I think it comes down to Each company needing to accurately Show at what point of the process they're in because just because the game is playable That doesn't mean it's finished just because a game Was in a beta that doesn't mean they're planning to release it soon Uh, and that's the things accurately representing and telling your community your players Here's where we are in the process This is what we are letting you try for now So by saying we're in a beta test some people like, oh, you must be getting close if you're in a beta already Or if you're in an alpha, okay, we're pretty far away So if you can accurately represent where you are in the in the process of Developing a game that makes the marketing better um in that regard because With predecessor and overprime both of them had a uh a beta or a test weekend earlier this year, correct? I believe predecessor did yeah So by doing that both of them showed we are getting close to the end of development going into early access or full release or whatever So by having that and then having that transparency People are really excited for that sort of thing because we've been told and the way it's been communicated Is that they're close to that release? And I think that's what's going to make or break Any of these games is accurately depicting where they are in this process If predecessor comes out and says Okay, we're nearly done with a game, but when it comes out It's buggy. It's got mistakes. And this is what's considered Near completion not saying this is all of all this is just an example If they say this is near completion, but it's buggy characters don't work Some of the issues come out items are busted some characters are overpowered some are underpowered Then that's going to cause a bad taste if you say this is close to release and it's just not What they wanted so if you're able to accurately represent what you're selling to your People you know selling a free game whatever That's going to make or break is being accurate with what you are trying to give the community I also want to side though Is there can be such a thing as too much transparency? And I think that has been Actually proven by the popularity of the games right now and their strategies for release Because like you know when preds When when predecessor's very first alpha came out core was still around and everybody was Hyped up for pred then that alpha dropped and it sucked And it was not great, but it was just a very initial very first steps of their development process And you know and people just didn't understand that they just couldn't get it through their heads that this is a very early Pre-alpha version of the game So they went flocking right back to core and then core boned up there Just didn't even do in core things alpha And everybody kind of went back to pred, but the pred just wasn't there And that's when fault kind of came in swooped in and filled that void but um And then with overprime too, you know Their initial soul leave release Pre-net marble was pretty janky like there was a lot of janky shit going on In overprime when it was just peer-to-peer and then the head servers and all that The the the one lane 3v3 was fun But like shots would come from behind you the animations just weren't there Like murdoch would lean all the way over here whatever you tried to turn and like there was a lot of weird stuff going on with the game So people could see They didn't seem to understand that it was in a work in progress They could see what it looked like and and they would just shit on it and they would just not come back to it But then they got You know um The money and they just went silent. They shut down their servers They stopped supporting that version of overprime They went completely silent for a while and then they came back with like an amazing product that kind of blew everybody away So and I think that's kind of the problem with fault with fault everybody has seen The struggles which it sounds like such a great idea to let the community see your struggles as you develop the game But unfortunately the community doesn't seem to understand The that it is a struggle and that things Are going to improve they just look at what they are right now and then just kind of Make a judgment based on that Which I think is pretty smart of ethereal for not doing another cbt because I think right now It would just it would do more harm than good I think it goes back to calling like the titles of it, right? So like too many I think so the game devs and people who are really familiar with those types of things will You know understand what alpha beta and then early access means but with the I guess meta especially on steam of Early access games basically Going into early access before they become full release games. You know what I mean it like Kind of watered down all those terms from a community perspective like, you know, some games will stay in early access for Years and years and years and you're just like, okay So is this really still early access or did you just take my money? Like or is this just like a banners that way you can be have excuses for why your game is buggy and fucks up all the time like and so I think that's that's where it struggles like, you know when you mentioned like fault for example and then you know Us as a community kind of getting to go along with them It they get they keep saying well, it's in early access. It's in early access. I'm like, okay Yeah, it is in early access but you took my money And now and you're taking my time because I'm putting time into your game And those things I don't get back and if I don't feel like you're valuing my time and my money Then you're not a value to me and I'm not going to continue to invest either of those things into you and I think having a Really forward community manager or somebody who's in charge of making sure that the People who are investing again their time and their money Or you know combination of the two into your early access or into your beta or into your and I thought to me Over prime with the last cbt did a fantastic job with that They came out afterwards and we're hyping up how much data that the people provided and how much like how You know all the you know surveys that they collected and like that and they released it all and said like look We would not only read it. We paid attention to it. Here's all the information we took from it Here's the Trello going over some of those things. That's communication that says like We're ready to release a game that's still going to be worked on and we go and when they say they're going into early access I'm going to trust what that that term means You know what I mean? I guess so that's that's kind of plays on it I think when we we talk about release strategies when you say you're going into early access Okay, well is this real early access or is this just a terms that way you can get away with You know bugs or what what is what does it really mean and how much communication are we going to get from it? Does that make sense? I hope I explain that well Yeah, that makes sense and that was something I was going to say as well as like the way marketing for gaming these days has come as you mentioned early access is more We want to release our game For you guys because the community wants it But we're not ready to call it a finished product yet and eventually you know as you mentioned as well It just kind of stays that way for sometimes way too long um so When it comes to over prime at least the way I hope they do it is they call it early access until all of the Paragon characters got released or all the ones that they're wanting and then that's considered full release when they have their full roster Of the original characters then when they start Putting their own characters out there. That's post Release content. Yeah, that's that's my help for Paragon or over prime at least with that being said Do you guys think that though that they should do early access while also still putting it on the console because console early access tends to really Struggle to get approved like going into early access on steam is like Almost it doesn't take anything really right but to get early access permission on like You know xbox or or playstation is from what I understand super difficult I think ruba mentioned it earlier in chat. I don't have it saved But something along those same same things is that it's really really difficult to get in front of Those stores when you're going in, you know, not having a full release product I don't know much about it. Do you guys have any insights or? thoughts on that Aspect because I know that's big for all these projects It's definitely possible Paragon did it right because Paragon was on console And Paragon never technically full released Um And so it's that was playstation three or four That was three What was it? No, it was four early four then early four then yeah very early four. Okay. That's forever. I'd go jelly Still it's it shows that there's the precedent there and especially precedent if you're a large enough company Right epic games being who they were may have had more pulls in an indie developer can so Netmarble by association may have more pull than Than a fault would necessarily or maybe one of the investors for overprime has more pull that they can get those things done in a more expedient time frame than just Full release or bust ruba brings up a good point epic also knew that what performance was needed for ps4 um, yeah, this is net net marbles first PC foray into the pc gaming And I think all right first foray into console gaming they've been mainly a mobile gaming company so far So I think yeah That may be such a good one applicable. Yeah, they've got you know fucked on a mobile games. Yeah, but yeah I mean that definitely goes into the idea of like which one comes to console first is gonna definitely get ahead because Then that's another two markets on top of pc you get to sell and advertise to And and any of them entering console would definitely benefit Maybe not Like always like a hundred percent benefit, but going into early access uh We're sorry waiting until full release to put it on console would not be a great thing because You know as we've already mentioned we don't know how long these early access are gonna last. Yeah, so if Pred and overprime into early access And then three years later when they go into full release. That's when console gets it Everyone that's on console would might have felt lied to in all honesty Because when you when you hear a games coming to a console And then it's released on pc for like years before you it just feels like a slap in the face to say the least So I imagine they'll get to console I'm gonna be honest probably either early to summer next year Like early next year to summer to next year. Well, I was gonna say parents are uh overprime And I think predecessor both are well overprime has mentioned that There's right his early access is going to include a console release, right? And I think No, no, I thought they did they they changed their faq. It's not gonna be Along with ea, but it should be soon after ea Oh soon after doesn't mean that's what I remember. Yeah, that doesn't mean much, but okay Well, so that means it for both of them Then yeah, that might not matter because I know I know they all want to get on console I do think that the console aspect of the game will help I don't know if it's going to be the make or break for the the game's success necessarily I think that a lot of people hype up getting on console as like the thing That's going to really make the games huge. I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't think that that's I don't know I would actually see numbers from like other games that are like so like for smite or anything like that that are successful Via pc as well as being just as successful if not more successful on console because I know that like For overwatch, for example overwatch has had a good player base that played on console But was not nearly as like consistent as their pc audience So people would play on console But they didn't play as consistently as they would play almost any lots of other games They're way more quote-unquote casual about it when they played over prime and but the pc players of over prime or i'm sorry of over watch played Significantly more and way higher competitive and we're way more engaged with the game as a whole so Um, I I personally don't think that consoles the make or break for any of these guys I think that they could probably hold off and make sure that it's done correctly but There are a lot of people who are waiting for these games to come to console and and I know that's a big focus for For those players, but yeah, and I wasn't saying make or break. I was just saying like yeah Whichever one does it earlier will have a faster boost To their reputation. Hopefully again, if they do it correctly, that's the big thing if it's done correctly. That's that's everything Well, yeah, yeah, that's always the underlying statement to all of these but whichever one does it earlier Um, or if they do it around the same time, they'll definitely get a gig but get a good boost in the reputation for that Sure Uh, well, let's start wrapping things up. Let's hit those uh, those questions that you wrote down for us Viking oh, I we've already gone through them. Yeah, I've been peppering. Yeah, I've been peppering a man on you We're almost like uh, we're almost at two hours. Let's go ahead and start closing out with some closing comments and plugs Uh dapper dice you want to Hello, again, my name is dapper dice. Uh, I have Going to be putting a lot of content out for over prime and that's going to be my focus when that releases Um, I do a lot of you know, sort of off meta stuff So if you want to see perfect best builds, you're probably not going to find it at my channel Um But that's where I'm going to be focusing most of my time is over prime when that comes out And I do have a twitch, but I'm taking a break from that again waiting for over prime to come out So that's where that's going to be my content if you want to enjoy that But on youtube and on twitch, it's dapper dice both ways And I'll have those links in the video description eventually I'll put them in right after this and then once it uploads as a video, they'll be there wonderful perfect by yay uh, I Yeah, no, honestly. I don't not much more. I'm obviously uh stoked to continue talking about these developments I love that we get people, um, you know from the dev teams coming in here So I really appreciate you guys coming in hearing our critique hearing our comments on it Hopefully some of them are valuable and not just us looking like trolls Because I don't I don't think that's the intention. I think we're invested in in the success in the games in our own ways So but we do really appreciate you guys coming in and hanging out and the comments today have been On fire really appreciate everybody who's been really active. I really love seeing it. I'm so glad we went to the live format I know that man goose has been struggling with the idea of it for a while Um, but I'm glad that we finally put it together and and because it's been a lot of fun You guys can follow me on twitter. I put out tweets every so often Um, that would be cool. I maybe if I get enough of you guys following me, I can get a blue check mark next to my name That'd be fun Um, but yeah, that's it. That's all I got for me jelly Uh, yep jelly knees twitch and youtube. Um I don't know. I'm happy to be here. Yes, uh, mich You will see talus's skills all this week on social media just like xyles um Yeah, I'm ethereal. I'm excited for ethereal if you guys don't know what ethereal is Definitely check it out dapper dice. I'm excited to hear your questions as you explore more into ethereal Um, but yeah, that's it for me. What about you my goose? I got nothing to just appreciate everybody coming out. Um chat was popping off. We had plenty of viewers tonight I really greatly appreciated it like jedi said this was a big leap for me to actually go to a live format For these shows, but um, it's it's been a lot of fun I've really been enjoying Interacting with chat as we go even though I have to limit it somewhat so that we can actually get through the pacing of the show but uh Pacing on this show. There's there's pacing on the show. All right. Oh Yeah, about 45 minutes of over prime 15 minutes of the other two ethereal gets sprinkled in somewhere And then we just meme and answer questions the rest of the time That's what I've noticed from past releases Well, it depends on who has the most news really like and there's a reason over prime has the longest one because they're the only one putting out anything right now But yeah, I appreciate you guys if you're watching this live I appreciate if you're watching the uh the the video that youtube automatically uploads afterwards But um, and if you have any questions that you want to be answered on the next episode Uh, just put them in the comments and I do keep a spreadsheet or not a spreadsheet But uh google doc where we have everything planned out for the show And I'll just put those questions that you have on that sheet so that we can hit them up Next week. So, uh, I don't want people in the comments to feel left out. What are you pointing at jedi? I just want more comment if you want to be the next Dapper dice, you know to come in here and hang out with us a little bit Like, you know, just shoot a message to one of the three of us Or most likely man goose because he's the one who put the most of this together, but Let us know for now For now, uh, but yeah, no, honestly, uh, we like having people on here and uh, and if it's a really packed show Then you know, I'll probably be the one that steps out of the out of the show So that way we could have someone come in but it is always fun to get like dapper being here and get his insights Especially since he's like almost in the middle between even me and these two guys because normally I'm the one who's like on the outside Looking in you know, I wasn't a hardcore paragon player. I didn't play a lot of these other games that much So having dapper come in is basically just finding this stuff out like Six seven eight months ago or whatever that's to me. That's just mind-boggling That's like, you know, like not only am I just finding mobas for the first time But I'm finding bear zombie mobas and I'm loving it and I'm like you're diving head it I think it's so cool, dude. That's super super neat. I get comments all the time. I love that saying Wait, I thought they canceled this game and then I have to like go to the explanation of this as a paragon This is fault or this is brand Or I get comments like a I thought they were using the paragon assets like no if they're always never using the paragon assets like Yeah, there's a reason we try to keep people informed though. We do we do Yeah, there's a reason this this you know sort of panel of people here It's called for the minions and not para zombies because it covers mobas It's just those are the three that this game this this plant was In the past we have covered um, we have covered project stamina. We have covered king's hunt It's not limited to these four games, but these is kind of the four that we're uh focused on right now and has the most going on But um, yeah, I think that's going to about close it out again. I appreciate everybody coming out. Um Yeah, I think that's going to be it. This is the four of the minions crew signing off you guys have a good one Have a wonderful day everybody. Our favorite out of Germany and the incest jokes podcast stream. Love