 Hello, I'd like to call to order the meeting for Wednesday, August 18th, 2021 We would like to do the pledge allegiance Led by Don Okay, does anybody have any individual conflicts with any of the Board members or any of the applicants at this point? I am looking for the approval of the zoning board Minutes from July 21st, 2021. So I've a move to approve and then a second Everybody say aye And if you don't agree say nay I haven't done this in a while Okay, so The first item for business is a variance application by Alex is about requesting to install a six-foot high privacy fence in his required street yard located at 3229 North 28th Street if you'd like to step up to the podium, please Could you just explain what you're after to let the board know what you're looking to do at your lot for us, please We're requesting to put up a six-foot privacy fence Because we really don't have a backyard. We have a small child. We plan to have another small child We have another we have a dog. That's Kind of small and fast So having her just on a leash in the back doesn't really Fit We just recently purchased the property. So we were like, okay. Well, now it's time to put up a fence I'm from the south. So I thought I could just put up a fence I didn't know I had to go through, you know, zoning and all of that. But as you can see The side yard is mainly where what our yard is We have a very good front yard, but that street doesn't have yield sign right there on the corner and It's kind of dangerous because nobody really pays attention and As you can see the backyard There's really not a whole lot to work with it's nine feet from the house to our property line. So having that Limited space we wanted to open it up and have an area to where we could entertain or Just sit outside for the summer and have dinner versus having everybody stare at us while we eat I Were open to fences, but we were just looking at a six-foot cedar fence Yes, you have barbed wire on top of it if you let me yeah How many feet on the sidewalk will you be? It'd be a foot off the sidewalk It's gonna start at the front of the house right off the side of the house and then come down to a foot from the As you yep So that's the front Yes And then wrap around Because it is a duplex and we're just gonna split right down the middle You know you own both sides, correct? Correct Well, normally we approve a shadow box style or we approve a vinyl fence especially in a corner like that Are you open to doing a vinyl type material? Yeah, it's easier to take care of so okay Go ahead. What does the I guess what does the staff say? Yeah? I think I think we run into these situations quite frequently It sounds in terms of that Mysterious Bell owns the property lives on this north side and they're looking for that little bit of privacy I think the only item of Concern is is the style like we've talked about but it's also just the aspect of the neighbors Driveway so one of the things that we often do is if you see here if it Fence comes in this area the neighbor will have a difficult time Backing in and out without seeing the sidewalk So one of the things that we'd probably have to work with you on is usually we do what's referred to as like a 10-foot vision Triangle meaning kind of an angle in that area So when that neighbor is backing out instead of having to back all the way on to the sidewalk to see what's going on There would be a little bit of a sight triangle Let me get your stuff here real quick So so probably in this area kind of in here We'd probably do a bit more of a triangle because that neighbor is backing off and if the fence is right there He can't see unless he's pulling out into the Sidewalk, okay, so so staff did not have an issue with the proposal as long as it was the vinyl or the shadow box and that 10 foot vision triangle was Incorporated and then you would just work with our building inspector Jeff Lutzky with regards to that Any more discussion I'm looking for a The chairman I'll call the question you would you would make a decision to Make a recommendation if you'd like Make a motion that we approve a shadow box six-foot-high at least six-foot-high With that angling or of him I'm making a motion for shadow box We have a second mr. Lindy So we have a first and a second so we're gonna vote based on putting a six-foot-high shadow box fence with a 10-foot sight triangle correct Now the 10-foot triangle. I just measure out How far or how will that work? Yeah, go ahead. I would actually look at it as far as coming from the neighbor's driveway Okay, coming out 10 feet So if your fence is 8 feet from that driveway, they've already got part of a view already So that site triangle might be smaller. Okay, so but I'll work with you on that once We'll figure out for sure how far you are from that from that driveway Okay, okay So we get again, we have a first on the second on the table for approval Everybody in agreement say aye And everybody opposed say nay Okay, motion carries. Motion carries. It's approved if you would so choose to go with the vinyl We certainly would encourage that. Okay So next on the agenda is a variance application by jeffree schultz requesting a Concrete his drive gravel driveway. Sorry Currently has an 11 foot 6 inch from the house to rear lot line located at 1911 north first street If you'd like to step up to the podium, please Um, yes, we've got it. We purchased a house this year It doesn't have a garage on it, but there's a kind of a dangerous steep driveway coming off of it It's part gravel and part Old concrete Anyways, we'd like to replace that with a a new driveway and put a A garage in which which would fit within the the setbacks But the the driveway from the house Is basically I think it's 11 and a half feet to the property line So we can put a five or a 10 foot driveway in it But we can't get the three foot offset from the property line on the driveway. It's only about a foot and a half Um, so we're asking for a variance there and then it would swing back to the the area of the pad where the garage would be Set and that would be three feet off of both property lines. So that wouldn't impede on anything What does this driveway connect to on the other side? Is that another driveway or is that uh? It comes off of a an alley. It's next to the water tank down off of the lake The alley that runs along the the vacant lot that the Water tower sits on it borders and then it The the other side of the driveway or the other side of the property line is a driveway and a garage So it's in a backyard. It borders on another driveway So it would be another Be a foot and a half closer to that driveway basically Have you discussed with your neighbor if that? Their thoughts I guess on that at all I don't know if there's any neighbors here for this one. We've talked to them about about that They didn't have a problem with it the immediate neighbor. Okay. Is there any neighbors or anyone here? what does uh Yeah, we uh, uh, jeff and I had an opportunity to take a look at it um, the garage is uh, or presently there's a driveway It's very small with in terms of the lot and the house takes up. There's a significant amount of Landscaping in this area. There's probably even more today isn't that much showing more right shows there so so there is an area behind the house here and They have this gravel area. It looks kind of in tough shape and with the investment and the purchase of the home it would appear that That there is some hardships in there in terms of the back of that area and and from our perspective It seemed to make sense that they'd be allowed to at least have a place to Be able to park their cars in a safer Opportunity with having something like that paved in the area. So staff had no objections to that proposal. Okay Anybody any other questions mr. Lindsay? Could she I have a first and a second for approval any Other comments questions Okay All in favor say aye I'll oppose say nay Approved approved Very good. Thank you. Yeah Okay, so third The list is a variance application by johnny lorg and jessica Requesting to install a six foot high privacy fence on their required street yard located at 1924 south east street Sorry if I pronounced your name wrong. I'm jessica. Hi. Hi So if you want to explain to us a little bit of what you're looking at doing um putting well we We have already put it up Okay, um, there was a fence there previously that was four foot Um, it was picket style. We wanted more privacy um and It is 13 feet from the sidewalk But do you see there in red Is where it's installed where it is installed And that's the side of the house. Yeah. Yeah. So what we're taking a look here So basically this is the um East street area that you can see and then um, this is the dillingham area So you can see what was previously at the site Mm-hmm. And so uh, the uh lurgies had in uh installed a new fence without a permit and They installed just kind of a cedar fence um, one of the things that we often talk about in terms of the fence is the um materials themselves and so You know like we just talked about with the vinyl and shadowbacks You can kind of see the um Here this you can kind of see the cedar fence and and so that oftentimes is what we've been struggling with in terms of looking how that looks over the years on these Street frontages So I don't think staff had a real issue with the fence itself Other than the fact that the design doesn't meet what we've been doing And if we were going to recommend it staff would be recommending that they be required to install Get the permits and install the shadowbox style fence Or a vinyl like or vinyl correct any um Neighbors here No Any comments or questions from the board? I think the only was it why was I guess why did you not pull a permit? You just didn't know that you needed to I honestly didn't was the issue Is it an issue if we would have the material changed as far as the I'm on a budget Okay I am on disability. Okay So So the cost of that would be tremendous Yeah, I'm not sure. You know, they have the wood already. I'm not sure what that is but From a staff perspective No question that we'd be recommending that it be the shadowbox because of the look and the things that we've dealt with over the years So The board can certainly choose what they would want to do Uh, a street is a very heavily traveled street along Dillingham. And so from our perspective It definitely should be the shadowback style Mr. Landy I move that the variance be approved and that the fence design be altered to Be a shadow box design. May I ask what is shadow box? Is it I can address that quick. It's basically board on board so And you could work with your building inspector a little bit on that In terms of that design So you're fairly close But this has a little bit more of the design that we're after compared to just kind of the plain dog-eared one fence So you'd have to work with someone to have that spacing And then do that board on board aspect of the fence itself I mean if if the fence if the other choice is to remove the fence and put A four-foot open if you want the fence then this is the style that you'd have to install understand You can step to the podium All right, so is all the fences down like a street supposed to be the same or? Or No, no, there's an opportunity anytime There's there's different ways of installing fences throughout the city In in regular setback areas you can install the type of fence that you want In areas when people are asking for variances such as this along such a visible street Oftentimes what you'll see and you'll probably see some around that area is that the fence over time Gray's out starts to look good and that's what you see on the street So that's why it's the 50 open and four feet high so So that's what the board and the plan commission and have done over the years is to say hey We'll allow them in the street yards for the privacy and things like that, but design is key to that So the fence right now does not have any stain on it um If a stain is on it We still have to change to the shadow parks. Yes So I guess my question would be if they would have put the fence where the original fence was Would they still be complying No That's why they had to come here Is because it's considered in the front yard and nothing in the front yard It has to be a minimum of four feet high and 50 open Okay, so even if they would have put the fence in the same position of where the prior fence was Because that was 50 four foot high. That's correct So if they would have put it in the same spot, they still would have had to come to us. That's correct. Okay I just want to make sure because of the solid Yeah, six foot high solid Okay, so Is this uh A new thing that you guys are doing because I see all along down a street People got the same type of fence we do And it's solid Yeah, I'm not going to say that there's not some out there that have been done in the past And so we've been doing this for four or five six years minimum if not more So it's it's the corner lots. It's the corners, right all right So there's a motion. I don't think there was a second So there's a motion on the table stating for approval based on putting a shadow box style up I'm looking for a second You'll second sure. Okay. So we have a first and a second based on the shadow box style Um, what is a time frame that you want to give? For that within a year, um, I would say that we could see it by like october 31st Is that doable for you? Um, we're both just able so it Will do my problem is uh, I would have to probably just buy a new fence Because when you pull these pickets off they just break they're all sections Is there a way to use the existing material? In some way or another I wouldn't say so I have no clue And would they have to I guess my other question would be is would they have to Continue that could they use part of that fence and then the other side? That's because we've done that before where the back portion of the fence would stay that style and then they would just have to change the Side and streets what what they could do is in the sections that are Parallel to the home So basically if you're looking at the screen you can kind of see Where it would need to be everything from basically this point on would need to be the shadow box And this section from the home towards the rear yard that could be um Uh what they have now, okay So anything basically from your front of your home Towards the street wouldn't need to be changed The other area from the home going back to the north would be allowed to be the solid Okay, so we don't have to move any posts. It would just be the pickets To make it a shadow box Correct Yeah, I think what you'll end up doing is working with the inspector to see what needs to be done on that Okay And I you know like I was saying it's gonna have That certain shadow back style that you can go with so just work with the inspector. Okay So we have a first and a second to have that shadow box style six foot fence approved And oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um, you know the other aspect of it is depending on timing Of variance is good for six months So the fence probably would need to come down But they could install get the permit and install the fence, you know within that time frame So They have to get a permit. I I guess what I would say is depending on what they're doing Right, so I you know, maybe it's one of these ones that um extend it to July or June or something maybe if you wanted to do something like that any thoughts jeff on something like that There's timing because they've got six months for the variance and the permit is good for six months Which is going to put them in February so I'm just just because of the circumstances. I understand Yeah, that we can get you know, they didn't know so we're trying to work with them So it's one of those things where if they're if we could allot them just a little bit more time If that would be able to help you Yeah, um where we could extend it just because of the circumstance that they're willing to work with us as well Just to extend it a little bit to june June 30th or somewhere the last or july 1st july 1st would be fine. Would that help you? Yeah, okay You know, I think that's fair compromise to be able to offer just a little bit of an extension We may want to amend the motion to include a time frame until july 1st of 2022 Go far. I'll move to amend So we have a first and a second To uh approve a six foot shadow box fence on the corner lot And it will have to be removed and installed by july 1st 2022 Okay, okay All in favor say I I'll oppose say nay You're approved Thank you. I appreciate it. Yep. Thanks The fourth on our list is a variance application from thomas and patricia ladwig requesting to have a second garage for accessory structures After purchase adjacent parcel 10 16 10 which has a standalone garage that's already on it Property owner will combine parcels located at 412 michigan avenue. Hi Yeah, so um, explain what you're doing. I live at 412 and the house next door to me 408 had a fire Okay, and um set empty for a whole year or so And they finally tore it down So then we decided to buy the lot next to us And it has a two and a half car garage on it We kept the garage So we already bought it. So we kept the garage and I have a one car garage on my 412 so um Because of the parking problems in in the wintertime and myself and my wife are up there in age and have a Um, a lot of things that happen to our cars out in on michigan Um, this way we can park everything inside I've got three i've got three vehicles plus a motorcycle And this way we can keep them all inside We've had some damage done to our vehicles. I fell and hurt myself a number of times had surgery. She's done the same The land that we bought next door we're gonna beautify it I've got 150 rolls of sod coming just coming monday to sod the front yard So, um, yeah, it's not gonna. It's not gonna be a piece of junk like it used to be so, you know, I take care of my land pretty well So, um, I don't know if that matters, but I threw it up there. Sorry, excuse me Yeah, we we already combined the property so It um in august so it's all ours and it's our address now. So okay I haven't I haven't I would be interested in getting that documentation From you guys because I saw some document that you've purchased it But I haven't seen anything that's recorded that shows that the lot has been a combined. I think what the Uh, the title company and and when I call about taxes they said that the number The tax number has to be together the same number because it might be right now It's two separate numbers. Yeah, so I don't know how long that takes Uh, that can take sometimes up to a year. Okay. So well, okay Yeah, but if you show a recording of the title when you would come and get Everything through the board. I'm sure that that's Acceptable. Yeah, what the documentation I've seen Hasn't done that. So I've seen like a warranty deed brought in But I haven't seen like a and and there's no like, um Uh recording, uh, where do we get that from? The probably I would I would probably touch base with the title company and Okay. Yeah. Well, okay. So right right my question is when did you close? Okay, so it generally takes about anywhere from six to eight weeks to get that documentation to you guys Well, it to you from purchasing. Okay. So when we get it we bring it to here Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, it usually takes six to eight weeks to get it So sometimes you get it earlier. Sometimes you don't but um, it just depends. I guess how backed up they are But you you recently closed. So it's just a few more weeks that you'll wait for that document the title company May or may not have it, but usually they send it to the owner first So our garage the the small car garage in 412 has been sited roofed and everything new garage door the Our new other garage. We're gonna Side it roof it new garage doors on it has a garage door on the alley and there's a single car garage door on the I don't know what side it know what side is that it would be on the north side No, south side the small garage is on the south side of the garage So we're gonna get new garage doors fix it all up make it look presentable because it is it doesn't look the greatest right now so, okay Can I come in go ahead? Yeah, so this is one of those ones where there was a house fire The applicants worked with the owner to purchase the property So that's good because there's some very narrow lots in this area Oftentimes with garages It we've typically allow for 1,000 square foot garage. So they are looking to Have to you can see on the screen where the arrow is where the garages are. I don't know if anyone can everyone can pick up on that Everyone see where I'm Man, that's an old picture So so you can see that they have a shed right on the alley. What's the plan with the shed? The shed has been approved. It's it's I already got a variance to keep that But uh, depends on what you guys say. Yeah, so we'll wait to see what you guys say I mean if we can keep The two garages we can take that down right because I can sell that to somebody else Which is, you know, if that's after you guys say yes, but you got to take that shed down I mean we can do yeah Yeah, because I mean that would definitely be the way staff would be looking I mean typically we allow for one garage and that's usually You know what the applicants were doing was discussing with us Hey, can we come to the board of appeals to see if they would allow to Typically and my recommendation would be no The board can certainly discuss that with the applicant to maintain that garage But if the board was to Decide to allow them to have to it should definitely be with that shed coming down because it's right on the alley It's it's just old it if they if they would get this garage They would have much more room than they've had previously and it's just uh, you know, you can see from the picture There's a lot of stuff In the yard. I think there's a greenhouse. I think there's you know, lots of equipment I believe there's a daycare that operates from there So they are cleaning up the other property, but that is kind of an issue in terms of You know, it seems like they're talking about doing some improvements and things like that So if the board has any questions, I can address those So it's gonna I mean They own it you want to buy or you want to know yeah, we we already purchased the property. Yes, sir You didn't get a deed when you purchased it Well, they just bought it. We just August 5th. We just bought it. It wouldn't be there yet. Patty. Hold on. Hold on Well, they must have seen a deed six to eight Well, yeah, but they it's not recorded Six or eight weeks it takes to get It's a title company that's uh that we went to Which title company is it? Sure, I don't have that paper with me It's that it's it's down by the riverfront. Um, I'm not sure what I don't remember the name of the title Yeah, sorry It's classic title It takes six to eight weeks after you purchase the property. Okay Sorry So, I guess my question is whose vehicles are like Bring up that bring up the picture. Good. I'll tell you so Um, so what do you own? Okay? I have a I have uh Honda insight that's a 20 year old on insight as a collector. Are you talking about the property line? Yeah, that's what what what not specifically the items you own the property line I believe that's this right here. Correct. Yeah, because see that see what a red vehicle is. Yeah, that's the neighbor's yard That's not yours. No, okay. That's the neighbor's yard. They're they're everything East So here's the second this is their property that they've owned prior to purchasing this This house has been demolished. Right. And so this is all Grass and was the neighbors and this is the garage that they're asking to maintain This is their existing garage now that they've purchased this entire property. This house is gone They're combining the lots and they're seeing if we would allow them to maintain The existing garage that was previously used by the owner of the property. Well, no, hold on I'm sorry What we want to do is we want to keep The two and a half car garage if we we want to keep both. Yes We'd get rid of the one car garage sure and keep Yeah, it what basically what what they're out there is what they're out of you say what you're gonna say I don't I don't if I said something wrong. So here this is My understanding was you can't have two garages on one property at first Then they said you can't have four structures on one property So if we're what we want to do is keep both the garages and Like you said get rid of the shed If that's what we have to do if we can keep the shed We'd like to because then I can store the toys in the shed But if we have to take the shed down, we will we did get a variance for the shed a long time ago Yeah, and that and like I said that variance was because they you know wanted the shed on the property because they had a small garage this would now be void Well, it's something to consider because now they would have this other two car garage that they hadn't had previously Is what i'm saying So what they're asking for is to keep all the stuff that you see along the alley So all the dirt that's going to be yeah, that's going to be side correct. Yes. It's got a fence Yes No, I understand that Okay, and right now there's a fence going up there we did get a Building permit for that. There's a six foot high fence going up there But we have a chain like fence that we're taking down and putting up the wood fence. So okay, but anyways Yeah, so eventually is there anyone in the neighborhood that has a two car garage? Um There might be a neighbor here too Your neighbor sir. Oh step on up if you wouldn't mind if you'd let so it does when when excuse me one second Um, it does look like there's several two car garages if you look on the map Uh to the west of them. Okay, so there are two car garages in that area I think this one was just so thin. I think it's 30 feet wide Right a lot of the properties are 30 feet mine is 60 feet and the ones across directly from Across the alley from their their house is also 60 feet Okay, it's actually a double lot that was that way a long time back Would we be able to get your name in address, sir? My name is ron ronaldi akic 419 here on avenue and I live across the alley Okay, so Yeah, I mean i'm like I have a garage about it's 863 square feet So It's it's full. Okay Yeah, if you go to the other side and see where see that concrete slab is right Keep going keep going keep going right there. That's my garage. Okay That was the other garage that I was talking about that's that's a two car garage. Actually it's bigger than that Right Yes an apartment. I don't know. Do you have any issues with them putting up the fence or any Well, the only thing I they've done a nice job of taking care of everything and you know getting everything else done I do have an issue with uh with the shed on the garage though Because you guys seem to think that you can put your garbage cans. That's hard to get around Okay, so that's one of the big things and then when he parks his credit cards at that little silver car The nose of it sticks out in the winter time And it's hard to get around if you're if it's icy. I'm worried about hitting it And if my son comes in with his big trailer and his dually truck, he don't fit Okay, so that's one of the biggest things. I mean if you guys want to fix that somehow It's it's a you know, big big thing but that that shed is always in a way And I didn't know you guys had a variance for it at first. I heard I thought for the variance that neighbors had to be Not notified about it. I believe I believe the variance was granted in 2005 So I don't know Yes, we have paperwork on that. Okay, that's fine if it was this was so yeah So they did receive approval of that. Um, was there another neighbor that had presented a letter of support on your behalf? Do you know? Oh, it's attached to board docs. Let's see here Okay, I mean, I don't have any problem with them keeping both garages I think that's beneficial for you guys. It's just that that shed is kind of a Sorry, sorry spot for me. I don't care as long as it's off the alley Let's see here. So this was uh Susan O'Leary 411 michigan avenue. I live across the street from tom and patty lehue. I can't make to the meeting To that their home and landscaping is always well maintained and I'm sure their efforts will improve the neighborhood So there was a letter of support But yeah, I think I I can see you know where the gentleman was coming And with that shed and things like that. So if the board was to consider approving these That that would definitely be something that you would want to have them remove I can answer that. Um, there would be an ability to apply to Build the shed in an area that would conform. So like three feet off a property line So if you had area in the other yard that you wanted to move that to we could work with you on that And yes, you could That we uh, I would talk to the building inspector on that But but what I would say is you as long as it's conforming to the yard requirements We would be able to work with you on the shed And we'll and based on everything that you're have with the other things I would doubt you would get it on the property line Just just uh location. No 10 by 10 is Acceptable. We were just talking location if I was to move it To the yard Right. I think it needs to be a minimum of three feet from the property lines And not visible from the front of the house right because you don't want to see your house and then a shed right in front, you know I don't know if anyone else has any Any other questions from anyone else Before we vote on it, I'd like to hear that abortion one more time Get the actual We've never had a motion never had one yet Would you like to make one? No, I So I need a motion I would be happy to make a motion, but I'm a little confused about what the motion should continue I could I comment on some of that? Yes So so I think what we'd want to do is we would be looking If if the board was to consider approving this the the recommendation would be to allow The Ludwigs to have two garages If the board would like they could request that the shed that's presently on the alley be removed and if they wanted to Change its location that they would locate it in an area that was conforming to the zoning ordinance And one last item Is you know along with this and you may have done this already But I haven't seen it yet and we can work on that is just that uh tax lack consolidation Like you said it may be in works and things like that But we have to make sure that eventually the two properties are merged into the one So moved So I have a motion and I'm looking for a second He's my guy today So I have a first and a second for approval. Everybody say I Oppose say nay You're approved So and and and we can Right so so you so you can so there's um So you got the approval for the garages So anything you guys can do like you said as far as upkeeping and maintaining that would be fantastic The shed on the alley has to be removed So if you want to relocate it we can work with you on doing that So what you'd have to do is just work with us on that and then the other the last item was just that the lots get combined Well, what I would say with regards to the shed is you guys can have a shed What I'm saying is it when I say work with us Uh, the the shed has to be a minimum of three feet off the side property line So you would just work with jeff in terms of providing a plan Showing where that shed is to be relocated. I'm assuming jeff that if they relocate it They might have to get a permit because there's going to be a pad And you know a new concrete pad that has to go along with that So you guys may have to have a discussion with jeff, but we would allow That to be moved to a different area, but there would be permits with regards that if you don't want to do that Then don't Yeah, yeah That's that's a good point Well, because you you have to remove that fence within six or the shed within six months Right the fact that you want to put it somewhere else You're going to still have to pull a burn a building permit because of the slab of when you want to do that So you could do that whenever you want Even if you don't want to do it for two years from now, but the shed will need to be removed within six months. Yeah, yes Okay, right. I'm not sure how you didn't get that before but today you have to have to slap Right It's sitting on cement and we just built it up to make it because the cement wasn't level So we built it up with pressure treated wood to make it level What you guys can do just just jeff forward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Sir, did you did you have your questions answered sir? Okay I need a motion to adjourn Make a motion that we adjourn Is there any more Nope That's what i'm asking for a motion Second i have a first and a second to adjourn We're adjourned