 actually have 20 minutes still left and so I'd like to open it up and see if there are questions or comments people would like to make from the floor and if they could if you could respect the same punctuality that the panelists have done we'll get many of you in who would like to lead off so I have calling the first row over there I think somebody should be walking around with microphones if not there's one there you see I don't see there's there's somebody coming over with the microphone now if not let's just share one of the microphones from the panel here to make sure that you get heard there we go okay thank you it was very interesting I'm my question is to all of you and the stock markets have fell down very drastically all over the world I'm interesting to see what you think about the future of the stock markets and more than that what would be the future of the cryptocurrencies because it seems to be that it is the diminished totally from the system hey investment advice now I think yeah right in the back middle yeah I don't see that I'm going to talk about it yeah I'm going to talk in French if you allow me this analysis which are very interesting on the fragmentation seems to be attached to this economic and political decoupling and often linked to what is happening now in the war of Ukraine it seems to me that the basis of this fragmentation started at the beginning of the century certainly in 2001 China became a member of the OEMC source of interdependence but at the same time it created it with Russia the organization of cooperation of Shanghai which was now large and which may be a basis of new non-alignment and then there was the 2008 crisis with the g20 which is often replaced by the g7 and then the brick and then what is happening now what is happening now it is essentially a development of a multi-annihilation I propose you I ask you to think about what is happening here in the region the trip of the chinese president in arabic audits and golf its meaning and its consequences on the fragmentation thank you very much I think there is also mr subredo over there just sitting over there and then then we come to the lady in the front row after that thank you this fascinating panel there is one point that you did not address and which is migration and demigration and I would be very interested to know how in your perception this question of immigration plays in cooperation or the absence of international cooperation its impact on the current geopolitical as on the international it is a phenomenon that affects the entire planet the america like europe it is a fundamental subject for this region how does it play in your vision of the global landscape thank you john michel and then there's the lady in the front right here thank you very much for all the panelists I have mostly a comment and it's a comment on what madame tomé said she said how come africa have 57 countries and they don't even have one seat on the un security council so don't you think like the whole world order starting from the britain woods it like you know with the imf world wto the whole system the world system had favored the west the developing countries on the expense the developed developed countries on the expense of the developing countries which basically somehow hinders their development thank you okay thank you and then there's the gentleman just behind her and then one before then i come to the panel after that thank you very much thank you and i think the gentleman just behind and then we'll close we've gone from zero to two mics yeah thank you very much in line with that question there was quite some controversy this summer about the president of the world bank being called a climate denier do you think more broadly that the international organization should be reformed in order to put climate change more at the center of their action thank you very much okay very pertinent did you have a question yeah you know after the remark of monsieur well hello a few minutes ago i'd like to say to confirm that the prince face al al saoud that is the minister of foreign affairs of saudi arabia will be with us on sunday afternoon and i think that will give us an opportunity to discuss the foreign policy of saudi arabia thank you so much for mentioning that i think there's one final comment over there and then we come to the panel yeah i'm going to make it in french it was berthrand badre a cité candid est est que berthrand you don't think that unfortunately we are in a world where each one cultivates his garden but in a very different way at the time of Voltaire we saw the gardens disappear in french to develop the gardens in english today there are still a lot of murders in English gardens so i'm a little bit worried because i agree that each one cultivates his garden but each one has a vision of the garden of the other different from the sienne and that is still a certain form of demondialization including our values thank you very much can everybody's garden look different or do they have to look more and more alike to be global okay i think we have some very interesting questions and i'm going to just go to the palace to ask them to pick up on whatever of the questions they think they would like to answer there's investment advice and stock markets and crypto to start with there's the issue of migration there's whether the world system itself has been designed in a way that you pretty slightly differently say you know does it take into account the the needs and interests of of developing countries the international institutions have to be in some ways renewed to focus more on climate change and what about this issue of globalization deglobalization so madame toure but let's come and continue with the same order yes well i mean about the system obviously if we go back to 1948 when we were designing even the u.s. system and other cooperation organization most of the african countries and asian countries were under colonization and we are carrying you know all these bags since then and obviously they're not fit that's the least we could say about it and they need to be reformed and the first reform is starting by giving a permanency to africa i think african countries have been consistent with that it's very interesting how when we start talking about globalization china invite itself as a main topic i mean that's a pattern i observed everywhere which speaks to how powerful they are whether we like it or not which doesn't matter to them anyway but what we have to see is that from where i'm sitting again africa we are saying well this is a model that we need to have because as you pointed out drastically over 40 to 30 years poverty went down at the rate never seen before in history this is now a powerhouse in the international scene so why don't we do that and i think it you know our traditional partners have to be very aware that for african leaders china is remain is going to remain as a key player of course there is no free money but there's never been free money dealing with the west neither on the contrary so i think if we would like to sort of keep uh business thing together we better pay attention to what is going on in the relationship between china and and the rest of the world in africa which is a mineral rich continent and it's going to be the same for a long time so i think the question is posed to ocd countries and to other international partners who want to make money in africa second the the the issue about um migration uh which is part also of the you know the the the the struggle we are having with with europe mostly um i was reading yesterday that um there is a dire lack of of of of you know i mean people are having job but they're not seeing people to take the jobs there's a lack uh of of workers obviously um but yet you do have unfit uh migration regulation which is more of a sort of psychological barrier than you know a making sense decision europe needs young workers obviously but of of a certain type according to waters do you want them to look like european but it's not going to be the case because europe is a very old continent and as you know the the only um you know um workers you can get mostly will be from places that don't look like european so that is also something that we need to europe need to deal with i think europe reminds me of you know old castles um you know that used to have day times uh and who refuse now to see that i mean the foundation are aging and you need to maybe do some maintenance so i think um this uh type of forum help us to to move forward because we have to go to the bottom line of the issue if you want to find solutions i think there is a way for good cooperation on a win-win basis um the lady who raised the issues is is the same in africa you are having now strong movement of youth a minute 70 percent of the population is below the age of 35 so talking to them about the past is not relevant what they want to see is solution now and if we really would like to build healthy relationship um and somehow because that's that's the issue of oecd countries contain um meaning the expansion of of china it's to redefine the way we do business thank you thank you very much okay let's take two minutes each please so sorry thank you on um a stock market we are more concerned about the consequences than the the causes at the WTO consequences could be uh financial crisis in developing country which are already struggling with their food bills which are very high because of the inflation so the question of the fragmentation uh and the China posed by mr or the wolf first the China does not seek at all in terms of trade alternatives to the multilateral system existing on the contrary she loves o mc a lot she has interests in it she has by the way offered to o mc a chinese garden which is at the entrance which is very beautiful which shows a certain intention to stay in the institution uh what is interesting to understand the the dynamic is to look at the China-US trade war uh we have a first study which is not from o mc which is from peterson an institute but which says that basically uh one this trade war did not lead to a cut between China and the United States the trade continued to progress and two this trade war has produced exactly the effects that were what was aimed at that is to say on the products uh aimed by the sanctions uh by the american tariffs there was a serious reduction in trade often intermediate products of technology and on products that were not aimed at there was like for example the game consoles for the for the american young people because there they put political problems for those products that were not aimed at there was an increase in trade and I think that the globalization of the future will have something to do with that more complex things more selective on the products of other technologies on the products of such semiconductors electric cars etc we will have fragmentation but not necessarily on the global panorama on the question of immigration in our trade it is translated by the question of physical movements in the in the in the services and there we fall on what aminata said that is to say the opposition where berthrand west south that is to say that in the legacy of the rules it is a sector that is less liberalized than that of the good and if it is part of asymmetries that complicate a lot the negotiations because the countries that have an interest in the exportation of these services by the by the workforce consider that we first have to put it back at level before doing other liberalization in the other sectors so we have we have that and last on the question about africa and global governance i think in the wto we see africa claiming its voice more and more of course our leader is an african which is not by accident it means something second africa is more and more invested in the negotiation i'll just take one example is our dispute settlement system which has been weakened by the by the us africa is pleading for its restoration and what is really interesting is that africa was not a user of the dispute settlement system there are very minimal cases where africa has been involved in in a trade dispute so that means africa is interested in having the non-discrimination principle being enforced in the wto in the future thank you very much vincen i'll just come down to thank you so i'll take the stock price and crypto question and the migration one just briefly so the fact that stock prices have suffered is is no surprise with interest rates moving up and bound to move up further after years and years of negative interest rates or free money there was an asset bubble clearly and it's now popping on crypto and it's collapsed i think this illustrates the need to regulate crypto and more generally the shadow banking sector are more carefully because those developments can have systemic consequences on migration i think it's interesting to see the differences between ocd countries some countries have welcomed migrants with open arms on a on a big scale for example sweden um others are more reluctant uh korea japan traditionally but even in korea and japan where they tend to prefer robots to immigrants they are now employing more and more immigrants it's not necessarily an open policy in japan for example but it is clearly a trend from a very low base but it's moving up thank you very much vincen okay yeah i need to talk about very briefly about the china i mean china has contributed to the world economy i mean after the joining the wto and the china exported the disinflation deflation or price stability to the world for the for the last two decades and also create the market as well so there is a good aspects of the china but now i think that the world is now in the page of the the aftermath of the global financial crisis still so for more than 15 years i mean we are now suffering from the the aftermath of the global financial crisis and also cheap money as well and so all of these kind of things i mean and also the the the relations between the south arabia and the united states that now now the because of the necessity of the cooperation between the two countries in terms of the natural resources and oil then i think that the south arabia would be more independent from the at the western countries and then and the bricks all the brisk countries are now very very welcome the application of the south arabia is joining the bricks bricks bricks so and in in in june we had the g7 and we had the in the nato summit but don't forget that there was a very big and the the gatherings of the bricks summit country so indian prime minister moody was very busy and to participate in the the bricks summit and followed by the g7 so so so another big big words is now the moving moving without the noticing uh our noticing of the what's going on and the last one is about the the international reformation of the international organization i think that now the international organization has has played a very good role but um now i think that it's time to think really think about the the reform of the the organization international organizations especially united nations and secret counsel and other uh some of course i mean trade order as well and because and the cryptocurrency and the many other issues now we are now talking about them the main problem is that we have no global governance we have no uh global regulations uh to cover the oldest kind of the rules so that's the one of the main reason why they we cannot speed we cannot fix the all these problems i mean the speedy okay thank you very much chef yes on on equities in crypto but we we had very very low and negative real interest rates so we had bubbles in other asset markets and now interest rates are rising so those bubbles are all bursting and that will continue for the foreseeable future and in my view most of those bubbles should burst and it's a positive development uh quanta l'immigration je dirais que le paradox c'est que les pays qui ont plus besoin de l'immigration du point de view économique sont les pays qui est plus le le résiste pour mon type de raison politique sans le changeant pas ce sont des des réalités politiques et quoi que soit le les nécessités économiques and that brings me to a general principle i'm an academic ideal in what why is and what's not shoulds that is why does the world look the way it does what is the way that the world looks whatever our shoulds may be i think it's important to have that in mind and that brings me to this point about the the breton woods or post war institutions and the possibilities of other institutions sure the post world war two and the reigning international economic institutions definitely obey the golden rule the golden rule is the people who have the gold get to make the rules and there's no surprising surprise that those who made the rules in the post war period made rules that favor them alternative options the countries that were successful have been successful were not successful because of the non-aligned movement the non-aligned movement in the previous non-aligned movement had no impact on development strategies no positive impact on development strategies the countries that were successful the ones that played by the rules whether it was korea china or others and that's going to continue the creation of a new axis whether it's russo-chinese or some other form is not going to happen not in the foreseeable future because as i said and as others have have also echoed the oecd is not the only game in town but it is the only realistically significant game in town for developing countries that's the reality the reality may be unpleasant but it is the reality and that's the reality that developing countries are going to have to live with thank you merci ma soude je vais parler en français sur les cryptos et les marchés j'ai pas beaucoup de commentaires je rappellerai juste que war and buffet avait dit en 2008 peut-être certains s'en souviennent c'est quand la marée baisse qu'on voit qui se baignent sans maillot et j'ajoutais perfilement à l'époque on a découvert qu'on était dans un camp de naturistes il n'y a pas beaucoup de maillot et aujourd'hui on voit bien on l'a vu en grande bretagne au moment du mini budget de list trust on a découvert que les fonds de pensions anglais étaient plus fragiles dans leur structuration qu'on ne le croyait on le voit aujourd'hui sur les cryptos il y en aura d'autres on va découvrir des tas de choses sous l'eau qui sont pas très plaisantes et ça va pas être extrêmement agréable sur les organisations internationales on a dit beaucoup de choses et encore une fois leur réforme elle est à la fois souhaitable et difficile en visager compte tenu de tous les blocages il y a quelque chose qui me paraît très important aujourd'hui on a parlé du dirigeant de la banque mondiale je pense que toutes les organisations internationales devraient être 100% compatible sustainable development goals et 100% compatible climat point bar on commence pas à dire je fais 35% je fais 42% je fais non à un moment il faut arrêter la planète c'est donner une feuille de route les organisations internationales suivent la feuille de route qu'elle aime ou qu'elle ne l'aime pas point et là il faut être absolument absolument clair sur l'immigration Jean-Michel l'a souligné je l'avais dit un peu je pense qu'on fait on risque d'être dans un monde assez effrayant c'est-à-dire d'un côté on se replie comme je le disais sur son jardin le french ring comme disait Janet Yellen on va rapatrie un certain nombre de choses pour un certain nombre de raisons on va limiter une partie du commerce et je commence à voir dans mes investissements des gens disent tu ne peux pas investir là puisque les produits sont exportés en avion ça émet du carbone et donc c'est pas bon dans les normes européennes on va avoir des effets de bord qui vont qu'on va rétrécir tout ça en face de ça on a un défi démographiquement minute à tourer la rappelée comment est-ce qu'on est ce qu'on traite ça si on se replie sur soi et qu'on n'offre pas de perspective au pays où la démographie explose et que par ailleurs on ne veut pas de migration chez soi il y a un moment on va pas square the circle comment on va y arriver je ne sais pas mais si on ne trouve pas une réponse dans les cinq à quinze ans à cette question nous avons un monde effrayant devant nous je pèse je pèse ce mot et sur la question de philippe oui il y a plein de jardins chacun voit son jardin c'est d'ailleurs le principe du jardin avec les les les palissades c'est que chacun fait son petit jardin en espérant que la somme de tous les jardins fera quelque chose de formidable c'est possible c'est peu vraisemblable encore une fois il y a une différence d'échelle entre son jardin individuel et la planète le jardin des dennes d'une certaine manière et donc comment sous le contrôle de monsieur le rabin comment est comment est ce qu'on organise ce ce lien entre notre jardin individuel et ce jardin planétaire je pense que là aussi si on ne veut pas de ce monde effrayant dont je parlais il est absolument urgent de tous devenir jardinier à la française à la chinoise à la japonaise à l'anglaise tout ce qu'on veut mais avec cette vision collective indispensable thank you very much personal so that i think we've come to the end of our panel and i'm not going to try to summarize anything but i just say one thing which is i think the what is very clear from this conversation is that there are going to be some really difficult issues to resolve that are genuine difficult questions with trade offs that are not easy to sort out but in that conversation we should at least attempt not to do create problems that don't need to exist and i just pick two that were identified one is the question of natural gas and its use in africa it's an obstacle to a meaningful conversation now because the approach that many countries have taken to the use and development of natural gas in africa is incoherent with their own policies on the use of natural gas and by insisting that africa should find a future energy needs when the majority of people in africa do not have an energy access at the right level without relying on natural gas while europe and us should continue to to draw upon it just creates an unnecessary aggravation in already difficult conversation and the second example i think is to assume that everybody shares the preoccupation and perspective that say you have in the us about china today i mean we i sit in the us and we may be preoccupied with the the impact of a growing china in the world and what that means but to assume that every other country is equally preoccupied with that and shares the perspective that you have in the us makes it harder to have a conversation so i think you were saying in the final comment uh madame tury said that you know we should not assume and we should start from the recognition that other countries don't have the same perspectives an honest conversation would help us to go quickly to the difficult problems that we actually will have to resolve with a great deal of discussion so i think there's been a terrific panel i want to ask you to please join me in thanking them for their contribution and and i think we go directly to the next panel which is the breakdown of the global economic order the appropriate next title