 All right, you're going to go. We're going to go. All right. So good afternoon, everyone. I'm Janet Holm. I'm the interim interim dean of University Libraries. It's a pleasure to welcome everyone to our second presentation of the fall 2023 graduate research series, which is collaboratively hosted by University Libraries, the Graduate Student Senate, and the Faculty Senate. The series supports the research process of graduate students through the sharing of their successes, challenges, and their use of information resources in and public form. The presenters from the series are selected by the Graduate Research Committee, which is composed of librarians and staff from University Libraries, as well as members from the Graduate Student Senate. This afternoon's presentation is with Yian Zhu Moon and Agam Shatya, both of whom are second-year doctoral students in instructional technology from the Patent College of Education. Their presentation, Enhancing Interactivity in Asynchronous Online Teacher Preparation Courses, a Design-Faced Research Approach, addresses the challenges of online learning in interactivity in online education. Yian Zhu holds a bachelor's degree in English Language Education and a master's degree in Tinsol, who takes English to speakers of other languages. Her research interests are in technology integration and education, online learning, teacher education, and computer-assisted language learning. Agam holds a bachelor's degree in English Language Teaching from Shatya, Wakana, Christian University, and Central Java, and a master's degree in Asian Studies with a focus on modern history of Indonesia. Before coming to Ohio University, he taught the Indonesian language at Columbia University and at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. His other areas of interest include foreign language pedagogy and second-language acquisition. Please help me in giving a warm welcome to Yian Zhu and Agam. Thank you so much, everyone, for attending this presentation. This presentation is our ongoing project, actually. So this project is entitled Enhancing Interactivity in Asynchronous Online Teacher Preparation Courses. So we've been working on this project since last spring. So we had multiple iterations of the designs that we are conducting this project. And a little bit of a feel about this project. Basically, we created the design of an asynchronous online lesson in the teacher preparation course. And then we implemented that design and then we used the evaluations from the students to revise our design. So that's the interactive development of the design. So in the next 30 to 40 minutes, we'll talk more about that. So I hope you stay tuned with us, all right? So this is the content of our presentation. This is how we organize our presentation. The first one, we are going to talk about online learning. We are going to define what online learning is, what are the types of online learning, and what are challenges of asynchronous online learning, since that's our focus for our project. And then the second one, since we know that there are challenges in asynchronous online learning, we would like to meet that challenge. We would like to face the problems and give solutions. That's why we are focusing on design-based research. We are going to talk about what is design-based research and why our study is a design-based research. We would like to talk about our research questions, questions that guide us through this research project and then theoretical framework that facilitated us in designing this educational intervention. We also are going to talk about the first and second iterations of this research. And last but not least, we are going to talk about how we utilize the library resources so that it can facilitate our research process. All right. So online learning, I believe everyone has some kind of idea about online learning to some degree, especially with the COVID pandemic, the popularity of online learning is increasing. It's prevalent now. So online learning is a type of learning where it's mediated by computer and internet connection. And this allows access to course remotely, wherever you are, you can access the course material through the use of digital technology. And this type of learning provides flexibility and global connectivity so you can get connected with people beyond your area, region, or even country. So that's one of the affordances. And there are two types of online learnings, as we know it. The first one is the synchronous online learning. So the characteristic is that this type of online learning is real-time. And then there is instructive instruction. And the real-timeness and the interactivity is usually mediated by some type of video conferencing tools, as we are familiar with it, teams, Zoom, so that enable that degree of interactivity. And then the students and the instructors engage simultaneously through the digital technology. And this type of learning promote live communications and engagement. So that's what's so good about synchronous online learning. The other type of online learning is asynchronous online. And that's the focus of our research project. So on the opposite of the synchronous online, this type of learning asynchronous online happens at different times rather than real-time. So usually happens throughout the learning management system where students can access at their convenience. That's why it happens at different times. And this type of learning allows flexibility which can cater to diverse schedules and time zones because when we register to asynchronous online learning, we can access the course. Whenever we are convenient, whenever we feel like we want to access the material, as long as we are thinking about the deadline on the back of our head. As long as we know the deadline, we can face our own study which leads to promoting self-paced learning. And also, it's delivered through learning management system and instructor usually uses prerecorded lectures, discussion boards, or interactive video viewing. And those are the things that happen in the asynchronous online. However, this type of online can pose challenges and that will be explained by my colleague, Hirju. So among these two types of online courses, definitely asynchronous online course is more challenging by its nature. So that is why instructional design in this format is very important. I'm going to talk about like three challenges we paid attention. First of all, many students struggle in asynchronous course because there is a lack of interaction. It's different learning environment compared to face-to-face or synchronous online course because there is a fixed distance. They have no chance to see each other. They are not really peers in the same spot and also they cannot see their instructor. So they can feel isolated and lonely in their learning journey. So lack of interaction can be a hindrance in their learning journey. And also, since there is no immediate response from the instructor, clear instruction is very crucial. However, in many cases, there are not really many unclear. There are not really many clear instruction is provided. That's why students are struggling in this kind of courses. And also, students often feel like they are not really cared by their instructors and they are not really highly motivated in their learning journey. They do not know they are in the right track or not. They feel lost. So lack of engagement is also another challenge in this type of online courses. All right. So reflecting on those challenges of asynchronous online learning and as an instructor, we want to keep improving the practice of our teaching. So looking at these challenges, we want to provide solutions. We want to face that challenges, meet that challenges. And we are thinking using, you know, like to conduct research that can help us provide solutions to those challenges, which is a design-based research. So I would like to define first, what is design-based research? First of all, design-based research requires iterative development of solutions to practical educational problems. And through the design, we aim to solve that problem, to face that challenges. And we want to provide solutions which can be educational products, processes, programs, or policies. And throughout this process as well, we want to discover new knowledge and we want to inform other practitioners, other teachers, other instructional designers, you know, like this new knowledge that can be helpful in designing asynchronous online instruction, for example. And the other thing that we would like to talk about is why our study is design-based research. Because first, looking at the challenges, we want to keep improving our practice and we want to provide solutions to practical educational problems. And then we have the product that we designed throughout this project. The design is the asynchronous online lesson that we have tested out. And then we would love to share the new knowledge that we have gained from this research project with other practitioners, scholars, or instructional designers. And as you see, it's still on the same slide on that side. So that's the process tool that we followed when we conducted this type of research. We start with analysis and then go on with the design and then implementation, evaluations, reflections, and then going back to the analysis for the second cycle. So looking at the reflection, what can we do better in the second cycle? And I would like to explain further on the next slide of each of the steps in design-based research. So we started with analysis first. So we want to identify the problem first. What seems to be the problem in this type of online course? And then we review the relevant literature, like the theoretical framework that can help us understand the problem or that can help us design this educational intervention. So problem analysis is conducted. We did that. And then after that, we proceed to the next stage, which is the design stage. Me and Yuju work together. We, after understanding the problem, we propose our design idea to each other. And then we talk about it, we discuss, collaborate, and then until we reach out agreement that the design is finally developed to address that problem. So after that, we implemented the design in the context, in the research context. And after that, we proceed to the next stage, which is the evaluations. We use open-ended survey to get evaluations from the students, inquiring their experience of taking online courses. So that results of the evaluations is our input when we reflect it and we analyze again of what can be improved. So that proceeds to the next cycle. After we learn, we implement it and then go on to the next cycle with the new revised design. This is our research questions that guide us through our research project. The first one concerns with the design itself. So when we design our intervention, educational intervention, we think of how to enhance interactivity in the asynchronous online course. Like that's what we keep in mind, how to do it, how to enhance this interactivity. And then the second one, we want to know students' experience because this is the heart of design-based research, like the experience of the user or the students in this case. So this research question guide us. How do students experience the asynchronous online course designed to enhance interactivity and engagement? So these two questions guide us throughout this design-based research project. And this is the third level framework that we use to guide the design of the lesson itself. So we use community inquiry framework developed by Garrison 2009. Basically, this framework is a useful framework that can help us build and evaluate online learning environments. So this framework focuses on fostering engagement, collaborations, and critical thinking among learners. So these goals like fostering engagement, collaboration, critical thinking will be achieved through three subcomponents of this community of inquiry framework. For example, cognitive presence, the process of constructing meaning to critical thinking and reflection. So when we build courses, we should reflect and consider whether we want to or we should allow the opportunity for students to do self-reflection, self-reflection, critical thinking activity, whether we have incorporated those aspects in our design of the asynchronous online course. And then the second one is the social press. So it concerns whether or not we have used or we have facilitated activity that can create like a social interactions among peers, among students and the materials, whether they build some kind of sense of community. So as a course designer, that's what we should consider as well, what we should keep in mind when building online courses or online learning environment. The last one, teaching presence. As my colleague explained earlier, that asynchronous online teaching can be a lonely experience. So the teaching presence or the teacher presence is a very important aspect and that's delivered through clear self-explanatory instructions that we use, for example, in this type of online course. So that students feel like, you know, they're not lost because there is that instructions. We can create like a recorded welcome video. So that's why the teaching presence can be elevated. So those are aspects that, you know, instruction, instructional designers should consider when building online courses. That's why we use this framework to help us design our design. Good job. So I want to introduce the research context. So this design-based research was conducted in ADC 2030. The course title is Technological Application in Education. And I am the instructor in this course. So our first iteration was done in last spring semester and our second iteration was done this semester, fall semester. And let me tell you about the delivery format. So in last spring semester, it was fully online course. So it was mixed of synchronous format and asynchronous format and there were 15 students in total. And this semester, the delivery format has changed. So now it's hybrid format. So for some week, I meet my students online and for some week, I meet them in person. And now I have 19 students and they are all precarious teachers. All right. This is the first iteration timeline. This is the first cycle of our design-based research. So we started in the spring 2022-2023 semester like a last academic year. So we started our analysis and design on week seven to nine. And then we implemented that design on week 10 of the semester. And then we conducted our evaluations and reflections on week 11 and 12. So these are the stages of the first cycle. So this is the cycle one. So this is the design. And I would like to guide you through the design that we have built. So we built this lesson in Blackboard as our learning management system. And we broke down the lesson into three big categories, three big sections actually. The first one is the pre-activity. The second one is the main activity. And the third one is the post-activity. So in the pre-activity, I mean, before that, in each of these sections, we incorporated interactivity elements so that interactivity can be enhanced. For example, in the pre-activity, we used Blackboard discussion board for them to share their thoughts about the topic of the week. So they can share their thoughts. They can interact with each other. They can comment with each other through the discussion board on Blackboard. Another activity that we used to enhance interactivity is collaborative reading. So we not just put our reading there and let them read. No, but we use an app. The app is called Kami. So Kami Reading App, that app allows collaborative reading. So students can get to the link that we have provided, go to the Kami app, and they will see the reading there. They can read the reading there and they can post their thoughts there and comment to their peers thoughts. So this app allows the interactivity within the reading, which is very cool in my opinion. So they can learn from each other within the reading. And then the main activity, we provided a video about multimedia principles because that's the topic of the week. So not just watching video, but we use app puzzle. So app puzzle is a software that allows us to enhance interactivity because in the video, the video is created into some timestamps where there are several timestamps where it's paused, the video is paused and then they will be presented with a question that they need to answer. So they need to pay attention to the video and they couldn't move forward because they need to finish answering questions first and then they can move forward to the next part. So there is no move forward for them. And then the last one is the post activity in the cycle one. We asked them to apply what they have learned about multimedia principle. So we wanted them to create simple presentation materials that incorporated multimedia principles and then we wanted them to do self-reflection after that about the process of making that presentation and then they also need to comment on each other presentations, each other work to enhance that interactivity element. So that's the design. And then there is the implementation that I have talked about earlier is on week 10. And let's go to the evaluation part. So this is like the more important part of the design based research, like evaluations. How do they experience this type of learning? How do they experience asynchronous online learning? So we use Qualtrics as our way to get the survey response and we use open-ended questionnaires. So from that we got feedback, we got a response from the students and we categorized that response into two big things. So it's under students experience. The first one is the interactivity. What they think about their interactivity with their peers and then the second one is what they think about their interactivity with the materials. So as you can see in the dialogue box, that's like the four sub themes that we analyze, that we identify. I'm sorry, identified from the questionnaire responses. So the yellow one is what we take into considerations for efficiency. For example, the first one is time discrepancy. As I mentioned earlier, that in the activity, there was a collaborative reading. Right? So some students did the assignment very early, you know, give their comment very early in the collaborative reading. Some students gave their comment very close to the deadline. So there is that time discrepancy because one student who did early felt this advantage because they needed to wait on the last minute to be able to respond to their peers comment. So that time discrepancy is something that we took into our considerations for efficiency. And then another one is clarity of instructions. You know, when we design courses, we thought, oh, it's pretty clear for us as the instructor. Apparently that's not the case because some students felt that it's so hard for them to find the assignment and it's so hard for them to understand what is expected to do. They say that instruction is not that clear. So, all right. So we took that as our considerations and do better in the next phase. However, we also did a good job. Like for example, collaborative reading tool. Students really appreciate the ability, you know, to see their peers' response. So they can learn more from reading their peer response and from the interactions, which is a cool thing to do. And then another thing is the interactive video feeling, which is the at-passer. So they learn from watching the video and having to interact, you know, with the video and answering the question and answer and being provided with a feedback once they answer the question, let's say incorrectly. All right. When they answer the question incorrectly, oh, there is a feedback from what we have provided. So that's something that they appreciate in this cycle one. So we conducted reflections from the cycle one. We took that as considerations for rations, for the first rations that we made that will be explained further by my colleague Yonju. We conducted two deadlines for the collaborative reading activity. One for original files. The second deadline is for feedback. So we did that so that nobody built this app image. And then we want to improve instructions, clarity, and organizations. We want to use more efficient language, not too wordy, for example. We want to use bolded fonts, numbering. We want to provide details on the assignments and we want to restructure our instruction into a more logical order. So that's what we did. And then another thing that we did for rations is we, you know, some students felt that the assignment is quite difficult for them to start from scratch. So we revised that. So they don't have to start from scratch when they design the material where they can apply multimedia principles. However, we've provided already assessing presentations with a poor design and they revised that with the multimedia principles. Like, how can you make it better? It's like a problem solving kind of assignment. Thank you. Now I'm going to walk you through the second iteration of our research. So the timeline is on week four and five, we met to revise our instruction design based on the feedback we got from the first cycle. And on week seven, we implemented the revised instruction design. And in the following two weeks, we met to evaluate their answers from the survey results and we reflected what did well and what we did well or what did not go well. So these are the, I'm going to show you some examples of our revision. Sorry for the blurry screen. So this is from first cycle and this is from second cycle. They are basically talking about the same thing, but the way I deliver the message became different. I try to make it more clear, more readable so students can get more clear structured information about their last thing. This is also another example how we improve the information structure. So these two screenshots says exactly the same thing. However, the way we structured information became different. Instead of using bullet points, we used a numbering and also bolded points, bolded font, and also we made a category, big category. Actually, we wanted to ask them to do two tasks, but from here, it was not really that clear what they are going to do, but here they can say, oh, I'm going to have to do two tasks. One, discussion forum, two, interactive reading. And here in that task, I have to do two things, leave comments and responding to their comments. So it became more readable and more comprehensible. And another change we made, thank you, is we added new dates for its task. Like my friend, Agong, explained, we had a comment from my student, like there were a couple of students who were at the substance regarding time. So we decided to put some deadline. So it helped them, like nobody is in disadvantage, that they don't have to wait until their classmates leave comments or not. And also by setting, so there are three due dates, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. So it kept them to be more focused and it helped them to manage their time more efficiently. And this is another revision we made. So the reason why we made this reason, this revision, there were fairly low participation and a task completion rate in this post activity. So we thought, okay, then how can we increase the participation? How can we increase the task completion? So we thought we can lower the difficulty, the challenges of the task. So instead of letting them create the teaching material from scratch, we provided poor presentation design and let them to do problem solving task. So they had to revise the poor design based on multimedia principles. And this task was also very helpful regarding peer feedback because it's more fun. They all know they started from the same poor design. So when they take a look at each other's work, it makes more sense, right? Oh, you did this try. And I made another design. So it's fun to compare each other's work. So after we did the second year in Asia, we got the result. So we were very glad that we could see, so we solved some problems from the first cycle. So from the data we got, we found out that there is no more issues with interactive reading activity, which is coming. And also we found out that the instruction we provided was very clear and it was organized, which was I was very glad. So these are the quotes, the evidence from the survey results. So they said the checklist was very straightforward and it was helpful. And the checklist kept me focused and the organization was very helpful. So we did a good job in that sense. One more. And also compared to the first cycle, there was increased participation and task completion rate. Everybody completed the posted activity in our second cycle. So we did a good job. So also I want to introduce some interesting findings from our research. So this is the one survey question they got. What specific elements or factors contribute to your engagement in the week seven asynchronous lesson? The first one is discussion forum. This is Kami, the interactive reading. And this is ad puzzle interactive video. This one is a hands-on problem solving test. And this is self-assessment. This is peer feedback. Very interestingly, student chose ad puzzle was the most element they make them to be engaged in their lessons. This was really interesting finding. Also the problem solving task and self-assessment also contributed for them to be more engaged in their lessons. This is kind of unexpected result from our research. So we would like to dig in more. So from the survey results, they said they there was quite good interaction with learning materials. Most of them chose as their word significant interaction with learning materials. However, they also mentioned that there was not as much interaction with peers, which was very unexpected result because we tried our best to increase interactivity with peers in this instruction and design. So we wondered why there is this discrepancy. So we are planning to do, we're planning to conduct interviews to investigate this discrepancy in the following weeks. And for future instruction and design, so from the second cycle, we cannot really say that our instruction and design is perfect. So no more things improve. No, we still there's more thing to improve and make it better. So first one is there are a couple of students mentioned like they have difficulties in figuring out how to use certain technology, especially honey. So for next iteration, we think we'd better provide like technological support in advance. Why don't we just teach them how to use honey in advance and let them be more familiar to that technology and that that will help them to be more engaged in their learning activities. And also another comment was that one student said spacing out the time we have to complete each assignment so we can have spend more time interacting with them. So there was three Tuesdays like Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. So when I saw this answer, I was like, yes, I can do this, right? I can say that I can give them more time to complete their tasks than they can have more time to think about their tasks and also they have more time to interact with others. So take away. So after implementing these two cycles of research, we found out that the incorporation of interactive tools can enhance interactivity with learning materials. And also like I showed you the chart like students thought that in interactive videos and hands-on problem solving tasks and self-assessment can enhance learner engagement. All right. So the self-explanatory instructions are crucial. So we learned that as well. So when we design asynchronous online lesson, we need to pay attention on how we create the instructions. So it needs to be self-explanatory, like structure well, organize well, use bolded fonts for highlighting important information. So we learned from the practice as instructors for this course and instructional designers, especially when they couldn't access the instructor because this is asynchronous online lessons. So self-explanatory instructions are very crucial. And then another takeaway that we learned is interactive learning activity helps learners to better understand the context. And it was proven by the use of collaborative reading app like Kami. And some students stated in the questionnaire response that they learn from each other from using that app. They see their friends or their classmates responses and I learned from them responses. So that really helped with the understanding and understanding of the content that we are teaching. And for example, the use of app puzzle really contribute as well in their understanding of the material. So interactive learning activity helps learners to understand the material that we're teaching them to. So last but not least, we would like to talk about how library resources has been very beneficial and very useful for us. And I would like to thank Dr. Chris Guder for helping us through this research project, one-on-one consultation. We really help us understand how to use academic resource very well. And related to the topic of design based research, both in media principle and interactivity in online classes. And we learn about the bibliography management tools such as Zotero. And we learn the full potentials of university library website that help us equipping us with the skill necessary to navigate through the website, find academic journals. That's very helpful and amazing. And thank you so much for that. We thank you so much for that. And then last but not least, the use of library study rooms because that's where we went to discuss our ideas and the development of projects. So that's great. Thank you so much. And we would like to also thank Dr. Striecker, our advisor for guiding us through this research project. And don't get tired of guiding us and we will bother you more and more. Thank you so much. This is our references. And if you have any questions, we still have like around 15 to 20 minutes. I don't believe it. I have personal questions, sir. Yeah, sure. Technology is there like scamming. Tell us a little bit more about those. Are those free software? Are there's a free software version of that? How do students get access to that? Right. I think you do. You might be the right person to ask. So most features are free, but there is a paid version. But I don't think we are really necessary to buy that paid version because we have no problem using Yakami fully. So first of all, you should install this county extension. And then you have to open the article which is from your desktop. And then you get the link. So if you share the link, students can access to Kami without any lobbying costs. So there they can highlight the sentences and they can make go and text the box to write their comments and also they can record their audio. So I felt that instead of just letting them to write reading reflection individually, it would be more fun to see each other's comments while reading the article. So we actually got really great response about the Kami. So I will definitely implement using Kami for my future lesson. I would like to add on that the moment I know Kami was by working with Hyeonju because I didn't know that there is that amazing apps because usually based on my experience as an instructor or being a student, reading is just there. So I just need to read by myself and then interact with her in class for a discussion inside the class. But this app is amazing because it allows me to do the discussions while I was reading. Well, while I was reading, I can interact with someone. I can just post my question there and I can even use audio if I don't feel like writing. So I feel like it's a cool app to use in class. So thank you, Hyeonju, for introducing me to Kami. I started using Kami for like interactive reading from like 2021 at Pato School. So I tried my best not let my students get bored in class. In a school, they need to have fun. So how can we make their reading more fun? Let them be more engaged, let them be more interactive while reading process. So that's what I started incorporating Kami and I think it is a really good tool. So I have a question for you. First of all, thank you for this presentation. When I'm thinking about the challenges that students face, especially in an online-only environment, did you also look at the possible challenges that you have, especially with the total language? So as you well know, in Southeast Asia, we have a number of languages that are total in nature and sometimes students have trouble hitting the right tones if they don't see someone's face. Right, so that's a very great question. And our research is not focused on the language but more like a future preparation course but I can try to answer that question. So when we created an online lesson, we can incorporate like the multimedia tools that may be embedded within LMS or maybe outsource outside LMS so we can provide tools that can help them listen to the tone of the language. So we can still give examples of how the tonal language works through using the embedded apps within the LMS. We have Blackboard so we can use Voice Drive to do that or we can outsource other apps and connect it to our LMS. Like maybe the other apps that can be used from outside Blackboard is like Flipgrid for instance. So we can provide our example there in audio or video form and give examples of the tone. This is how you should pronounce this word. So there's that thing that we can do about that in asynchronous online lessons when we teach tonal language in Southeast Asian language. So that's why. The only other question to say, Kakaom, why didn't you have that for me when I was studying Thai? When was that? I really was not yet too bad. So yeah, thank you so much for your question. I appreciate your comments. Yeah, but also I'll try to make you into a question. So for the benefit of folks that aren't familiar with design-based research, one of the aspects of it, and you guys did a wonderful job, so it's just one little side thing, is there's a collaborative component. So instead of the lab being in the tower, the lab or the experiment is not in the environment, so this was a class. So there's always a collaboration between researcher and teacher or researcher and professional or whatever it is you're working with. And we had the benefit of agonist researcher when you do as the teacher, but obviously she has the same skill set being in the same doctoral program. So I think I know that, you guys know that, but I think that part might have been lucked out, just a little bit, is that you have that collaborative aspect of where you're trying to assist the teacher in approving that, or it can be assisting a librarian and assisting someone in another field. So there's always that collaborative aspect that helps make design-based research where you're working in the trenches or in the, you know, the lab gets messy because it's a real-world lab setting of the classroom or a conference room or a public space where you're teaching or learning. So there's one side thing. So that all said, I'm curious, both of you have education backgrounds, both of you have taught before, and this is the hard part for yourself then. If you didn't have that teaching background, do you think you would have tackled any of this different language? Would you have different ideas of how interaction works or what students might have needed? And it's a hard one, as you guys are both educators for a long ride. So I think personally, like, I have taught 10 years and more than 10 years in South Korea. I worked in middle and high school and elementary school as well. So I think with that, like, teaching experience, one thing I can do is observation. So I think I have, like, eyes to notice challenges from students. So I'm better at, like, noticing challenges students are facing and just instinctively try to make it better. So it was easier to come up with ideas how to face those problems, but it was very helpful to have a collaborator. Usually a teaching journey is like individual work. I teach, I design my lesson, I teach, and I reflect my teaching. It is a solo plane, but with having my co-investigator, I could expand my thoughts and insights. So it was really good collaboration work. So it was really helpful to find more, something beyond my thinking box. So I'll try to answer your question to my best ability. It's a bit tricky. That's hard, because I've been a teacher all my life since I finished my undergraduate degree and being a teacher really shapes how I see interaction in the classroom. So, like, I have a, what you might want to call, high standard of interactive class, you know, I'm a snob of interaction, you know, in the classroom. Like, I want my students to interact. Let's say if I don't have a big learning education, I would still want my students to interact. I will still want them to have interactive elements, but maybe not as high standard as what I have now becoming a teacher for, like, more than 10 years. So I feel like I still incorporate the element of interactivity, but not as complex as the definition of interaction that I have from becoming a 10-plus years of teaching, in the 10-plus years of their teaching experience. So to answer your question, maybe I will simply... Well, it's a very hard thing to do, but it would be interesting if you had a similar project with someone else who was an educator in another area that you would bring to the design side, that they would bring the expertise of their teaching in the area. So it might have a very different result of what the interaction looks like. So what interaction you were trying to do for your class might be different from what someone else is trying to do. So it's just an interesting reflective point. Right. I appreciate you engaging with me on that. Thank you so much. Yeah, so yeah, that's a great question. So my experience shaped the way I see and the way I think about interaction here. So especially I thought... Oh, no, especially I used to teach languages. So that kind of subject requires an interactive class. So yeah, that's how I got my understanding of interactions. But thank you for your question. Yes. So I'm a student. Mr. I've actually been studying teachers and mental health. It comes to online learning. And it's that the topic I'm very passionate about. Overall, do you guys educate yourself? Do you critique... Like, do you face your own struggles? Just like not on the student education or just the new guys as a person. When it comes to online learning, are you guys completely opposed to this topic? And are you trying to make the best of it? Or do you still think that it's a very, I think, beneficial way of learning? Because generally, I'm just curious. Because I just like to see what teachers' perspectives on online learning are. You want to now have teachers' perspective on online learning? Yes. My mom's a teacher too. So I kind of like to see both sides when it comes to the pandemic. And so my topic, my class, I'm still trying to see what teachers view minds on. That's a really good question. So before the pandemic, I only taught face-to-face environments. But the pandemic forced me to teach online. So at the beginning stage, I struggled a lot because students got so passive. And they lost a lot of motivation in learning. But it was really a struggle for teachers. Of course, for us, we did not know how to conduct our lesson in a virtual world. Everything was new. But besides that, it was hard to let them be engaged in lessons. So whenever we had a teacher conference, every teacher, this colony, they talked about, oh, we hate online lessons. We hate online courses. We want to meet them in person. That's how we human beings live, right? We really miss the learning atmosphere. We feel like it is face-to-face learning environment and it's definitely more effective. But I see now the trend now is we cannot really avoid online lessons, online courses anymore than what should we do as an educator. We should find how to increase the quality of the online lessons, online courses. That became our role to find the answer. So this kind of research is really beneficial for all the instruction designer and also instructors. We have to keep finding how to increase the standard of increase the quality of the online lesson. It's going to be our future, right? High-flex courses. It will be like online. Just to hybrid from it. We should accept diverse delivery format and we should be ready for different delivery formats. So we should find a way to increase the quality of each format. So I would like to try to respond to your question as well. How do I see online learning, right? So I use, when I was still teaching in the nation before the pandemic, the use of my elements, the use of elements for me, is to upload grade and assignments. And then pandemic happened. The pandemic hit. So I had, it forced me to do online learning, right? So I was struggling to cope with everything, learn everything in just overnight basically. But that was a learning curve. And then I see that, oh, there is a potential of utilizing online learning, incorporating digital tools that can still help them interact with each other with the materials, especially in that time for a language learning. So, okay, it's a learning curve. It's a learning curve. It was not all good times, not all like rainbow and butterflies. But, you know, I learned. I was forced at first. I started to enjoy it. I cut to the point where I felt burned out doing it. And then I logged in again. So for me, as a teacher, I see that combination a little bit of everything is what I would envision my ideal classroom would be. If I have the freedom to create my own classrooms however I want. So maybe one time it's in person. There are some times where what I think the best to be delivered as synchronous then I will do it as synchronously. Maybe there are times where it's better to do it synchronously. That's my ideal situations of classroom. However, what I learned is that I need to communicate it well with my students that my classes like this. So you can, can you follow along? Things like that. So clear communication is the key when I want to create that kind of type of learning. So, yeah, now I feel the benefits of unlearning. I love it as long as it's used like in a good amount in my opinion. Like if there is no emergency situations, I would like to, I would like to still use it. I would like to use my ability that I earned from the pandemic in a right dosage, I would say. You know, combinations of a little bit of that. That's how I envision and how I see on my learning. Does that answer your question? Yes, it does. Thank you. One more question. Thank you. Thank you for that. I have a question about, I have a concern about finding sustainable ways of creating this instruction. So in your research, you point out the technologies that you use that enhance connectivity, which are county. County. I forgot, you know, the one. And also, possibilities. And you mentioned that you just happened to know these technologies even if you weren't introduced to them in the middle. So I'm wondering how do you see instructors navigate the rapidly changing technological environment to keep their forces engaging and interacting? Right. Or do you see this process? Because if we think about sustaining this type of interactivity, we have to stay up to date. Yes. Colleges all the time. Yes. It doesn't mean that instructors have to go there and search for tools where they update their classes. Or would you see this process? Right. I can try to answer that question. So then you are right. You are 1,000 percent right that we need to stay up to date with technology tools. And at least I'm reflecting to my own experience as an instructional technology student. I need to keep updated with what's new, what's useful, and using technology with purpose, not just for the sake of using technology. Right. So the best for me, the best way is to talk to people, collaborate. Like I learned from Hyeonju about this coming up. I didn't know back then, but because I collaborated, I shared. We shared to each other. I know well. And another thing is, because I'm a scholar, I'm a PhD student, read tech magazines, like educational technology magazines, or attend a conference where they did some showcase of technology. Like the last conference I attended in Portland, it was NCLCA, National Colleges Learning Center Association. They have a showcase of technology on Hotel Ball. So I didn't know this type of technology, but I chose to go to the conference, emerge myself in that atmosphere. I become more knowledgeable about what's new out there. So the highlight is, we got to be proactive, because, you know, it changes within minutes, I would like to say. So yeah, like the productivity is the key, I would say. So is that a question? Yeah, but I... Oh, sure. Sorry. It's feasible for instructors to research very niche type of technology for their courses. Because they would have to do that very often. Do you think it's feasible? Do you see this as a sustainable model? Right, right. Well, for me, it goes back to what kind of instructor do you want to be? Like, I like to see the use of technology. I like to gain the benefit of it. So whether it's sustainable or not, it goes back to you. Because it's not always applicable to everyone, but the general key is using technology, not for the sake of technology. Using technology to achieve, to make it easier and more efficient to achieve the goal. So that's what should be highlighted here. So it's sustainable or not, it comes back to the instructor, but the highlighted point is using technology to make it more efficient to achieve the goal. So if using technology just making it more complicated for you, then don't use it. If you think that you can achieve your goal without using technology, you know, you don't have to use it. But the key is, if it makes the teaching more efficient, then go for it. So that's how I see it. Thank you. Offer just one more. Yeah. Nellie, right? Yes. Okay, I thought so. The joy of having someone who's in an online class if you don't see them very often, so you guys are pretty sure. That's also a good advantage of having your professional networks, so that you have people that are active sharing with you. But another thing that often happens is just collaboration, like being able to talk to someone else. But in the college environment, the university's invested in certain technologies. So you can choose if you want to go one beyond what they're doing. Is there something unique that you can't solve with the vital technologies? And so then you decide, is it beneficial for you? In this instance, it was one lesson. So it was a minimal investment to address what either was available. Now, if you were having to do every single lesson every single year, probably that's not terribly sustainable. So you kind of have to pick and choose when you want to invest your time and energy and what resources go beyond what's being offered in a closed setting or a college setting. So I think that's the balance you have to strive for. What I got on listening and getting out was, where's that balance and what are you saying? Do you really need it? Because sometimes we have instruction that doesn't benefit from technology. It just makes it glossier and cooler and whatever else, but it doesn't aid transmission. It doesn't make it more beneficial. So it's just kind of that weird balance again. But usually if you have this one professional community where you have peers who exchange ideas, I don't want to mind them saying, I'm thinking about this. What is your experience? And I have 20 or 30 people to share with me. So it's great that a lot of our communities are saying, exploring one new option. Sorry, I didn't mean to call you out. No, thank you. Thank you, Patrick. All right, I think it's time to end this presentation. Thank you so much everyone for attending the presentation. Thank you. Thank you for your slides. I'd like to go through and share with you guys your title slide. Oh, yeah. Sure. Thank you so much.