 Good morning, everyone. This is the September 7th meeting of the elementary school building committee. October. Good. I'm slightly Jack lag. So Margaret is going to help me all the way along the way. Thank you, Margaret. Anyway, we're here on a Friday. And to call the meeting to order when we have a quorum. I also need to make sure the people who have joined us can hear and be heard. And as people, others join us, I will announce them. Jonathan. Good morning. Mike. I'm here. Thanks. Ben. I am also here. Paul. Present. Angelica. Present. Sean. Here. And Simone. Here. So thank you. And I'm turning the meeting over to Phoebe. I just met, let me make sure Phoebe can hear us and be heard. Hi, Phoebe. Unmute. Phoebe, just let us know you can hear in her. We can hear you. You're still muted. Yeah, she may not hear you quite yet. She was just joining. Are you talking to me? I'm sorry. I did not, I did not hear you, but I can. Okay. Okay, we can hear you now too. Okay, so I'm going to turn the meeting over to Margaret, who will go over our fairly brief agenda, but part of what we want to make sure everyone knows, and I put it on today's agenda is that we are starting next. In two weeks, the alternate schedules so that Alicia can join us. Some of that just today in the agenda, but then we'll go to Dinesco and have a just final preview of what we're going to be doing at each of those meeting times. So Margaret, it is. Kathy, I apologize, but screen sharing is disabled. Can you or whoever's co-host fix that? Okay. I think, see if you're in there now. You should. Yes, that worked perfectly. Thank you. Okay. And we're off. So I hope. I just want to recap the email I sent yesterday about future meetings we'll go over it in a little more detail. But we did work. I think it was a long team worked on putting together a course of updated lists, including getting all these alternating meeting time set and yesterday I updated all your meeting advice, because it is harder to keep track of for sure. I do. We want to spend most of the time today with Dinesco giving updates on what they've been doing. And I just want to note that they're, I would say, they are really cooking along now, and they're going to be in addition to the design updates are going to provide they're going to recap several meetings that have been had with teachers, including teachers, teacher, a really productive meeting with the traffic folks and conversations with the librarians, as well as general classroom teachers and technology. So they're, they are bringing today a lot of updates on all of those items. And then, but you can see Thornton said he's going to give an update on daylighting. So, and we're going to talk a little bit about a community engagement idea. I'm just going to toggle to this that I sit which is a memo that was posted in the packet, which is a summary of the email I sent out yesterday, which is showing, you know, are the layout of the meetings for the foreseeable future. At the last meeting here, the committee agreed to move to the later submission date for schematic design. And that has enabled us to kind of anticipate some future meetings if we need them in December. One of the big items to note is, we are anticipating that this committee will be looking at the schematic design estimate on January 6, right after the holiday. And then there's been a preliminary discussion at the town, the city council level about when to take up the meeting votes to reflect this so just to note. There is a tentative date for a town council presentation on the project costs in January. There is a tentative date in early February for a town council vote on the debt exclusion language and the referendum date. And the tentative date for the debt exclusion is actually May 2, which is falling just a week after the MSBA board vote. It's not confirmed. Those are the dates that have been floated so far. So that's my kind of intro to today's meeting. I'm going to just take that down and ask if anybody has any questions so I can see hands. Paul has a question. It's not a question. It's more of a comment to double emphasize that the council has not had this as a discussion. These dates like the debt exclusion date is something that we've, you know, we were is being proposed. It could be any date in there before or after that's really a decision by the town solely by the town council, not our decision. We decide which MSBA meeting to it to shoot for. And if the town council lines up things. They can have a debt exclusion any time before or after that. And, and I, at least. Kathy, your connection sounds wobbly with us. So Tammy, I just want to check that you can. Your connections a little wobbly. Do you want to try turning off your screen to see if that helps? Turning my screen off. Yeah, the sound. Sound quality. Is it better with, yeah, is it better? Okay, so I'm looking, I don't see any other. I think we're just making sure Tammy can hear and be heard. Yeah, thank you. Great. Okay, so I'm going to turn it over to the dentist go team who have been really burning the candle at both ends last couple weeks. Thank you. Actually, we're going to start with certain comments at the alley and our Mac are here to give a review of the day lighting analysis process and then when we have that discussion, we're going to move into how that informed the design. Among the other things we're going to talk about today. So, with that brief introduction, I'm going to turn it over to Ali. Kim, can you also introduce the, the, because we met them and net zero, but not everyone else met them. Oh, sorry, forgive me. So with us today from Thornton Thomas Eddie, we have Ali and Irmak who are the day lighting and overall. Energy specialist and I will allow them to introduce themselves a bit better than I just did. Thanks, Tim. And just to clarify, it's just me, but I logged in with our Macs. Oh, link. And so I showed up as our Mac first and I have turned into Ali, but I'm the same person. And so this is Ali Minchaka. I'm a vice president of sustainability practice for Thornton Thomas Eddie, and we have been doing some exciting work on evaluating daylight glare performance with respect to, as it relates to facade options. And so I'll walk you a little bit through what we're doing. And with that, can I share my screen. I'll try to figure out. I guess I can just share my. If you go to the bottom of the screen and get your screen. Yeah, no, I'm allowed now so screen to share. And so then I'll do this, and you should be able I'm going to turn off my camera just because I'll be looking up. Well, I can't I don't even know how to turn on my camera on the, on this menu. So, oh, there. Okay. Can you all see a slide and present review. Yeah, yes. Okay, fabulous. So just a little better background because I think this is very important to the discussion we're going to have where we're playing with many metrics. We are aiming right to provide as much daylight as possible within the school and in the classrooms in particular which was the focus of our study right there is research that has proven to provide higher test scores and kids that are exposed to day lighting so it's a no brainer there. We do want to make sure however, let me see. Oh, how do I know go next on my computer. It's frozen. There we go. That we control that daylight, right, lots of daylight and there are many ways to quantify daylight that will just tell us you have lots of daylight but they won't tell us that a lot of that daylight comes from direct sunlight. That actually decreases our performance as you all know right. We do not want to have direct sunlight that might impact a teacher's view or ability to connect with the classroom but also a student's ability to concentrate right. And so, just to put it in context just because we'll be talking about this the balance between day lighting. Why are my slides animated give me just one sec let me undo that just slide show use timings for some reason, sometimes I have that happening. Okay. In order to highlight the relevance of discussing in particular fix shading. It's important to highlight that this is what and this is in plan imagine a classroom where this is the window right here, or an office this is squared it doesn't quite have the shape of a classroom but this is the glass right here. Daylights coming in from here and filling out the space right. This is what we typically model for lead, say, right, so we'll be modeling. So much day lighting is coming into the space right in this this this facade hypothetical facade has no exterior shading, and has no interior shading right. Now what happens if we put fix a serious shading, the amount of daylight that comes into the space is reduced minimally, right. In order to highlight the lighting, we need to define it for the right orientation can help us eliminate almost eliminate eliminate as much reduce minimize as much as we can the direct sunlight that comes into the space right, think of back at through any type of exterior shading. If we do not have this, and we opt to just go this way and deploying interior shades whenever they're needed. And so I just want to remind everyone that whenever we talk about the fact that there might be interior that there might be direct sunlight in a space that that will most likely mean that the daylight profile and that space will look much more like this and I should have said this is day lighting where yellow means good daylight maximum amount of daylight that we can have and you know when it's when the sun is out blue is the minimum amount right. And so I just want to make the point of the fact that whenever we anticipate having glare, the likelihood of a classroom looking like this is very high as opposed to this which is what we tend to model for you know say from a lead standpoint which we've talked at large about lead and why it might not necessarily be this metric, although it's one of the useful metrics so without getting into too many details I'll just walk you through the analysis we did. What we did is called the parametric analysis so we looked at various, all combinations of many of many design options and so we have classrooms looking south and north. We looked at that various shading depths and so we only consider that this point one type of shade. And this might look like the shade is going all across but in reality these would be, you know, in reality these would be tiny brows on the on the on a window but three different types and then various window configurations right there are some window configurations people tend to think wide and really high up should bring more daylight in. We have you know address that we have looked into it many times and we'll show the results for that but the design team really went all out and exploring what what window configurations will align with our architectural intent and can we evaluate those. And so what we did was look at all possible combinations of the options that I showed you earlier and measure various things and so this is in color here this is these are not the results for this, this is just an example. So daylight, annual daylight availability is what you see here represented as a what I showed earlier, where our target really is to be somewhere above 50%. And we also quantify the depth of daylight penetration that we have found is much easier for people to understand as a single metric is like how many feet of daylight am I getting, as opposed to a particular percentage so we're showing both. So what we qualify quantify as glare potential this these are hours of direct sunlight at desk height. Right, and so this space in particular that we had model how four different windows and what you can see is number of hours of direct sunlight. And so our results have this graphical output but we're also quantifying what percent of this area has two or more hours under glare and so I'll walk you a little bit more through the metrics as we go. And we're looking at three it's very, very critical when we're looking at potential glare to split them up by seasons because the winter is inevitably has low their low sun angles and the sun inevitably comes really deep in. And if we were to average over a year, that would actually be washing out in a way right it would get averaged out and we wouldn't be seeing the impact of summer light coming in so deep. And then finally we're looking at various ways of quantifying heating and cooling this early in design so looking at annual heating load cooling load do any of these configurations impact that and then solar gain in the space. And the solar game the space just to clarify you give me is basically how much a solar game reduced with respect to to the baseline without shading and so for each window configuration we're comparing how much is the shade doing. And with that, I'll walk you through the outputs so because we looked at all possible combinations the results look like this web of lines so I'll just quickly walk you through it and really just want to walk you through like how we're exploring so that then the design team can. I'll tell you just our big findings right I'm not going to spend too much time on this but on the left. We have orientations I mentioned northern south different shape that's so zero, one and a half feet three feet, and then all the various window options here. These are the inputs these are all the possible combinations we looked at. And then the outputs would be the average depth of daylight penetration, then how much glare there is in the summer and in the equinox and in the winter. I'll start to see what I'll tell you what the lines mean heating, cooling, and then relative peak gain so these are the metrics that I mentioned we will be. We would be a comparing these options against each one of these lines represents one simulation. So if I pick, I'm just going to pick this, for instance, this line corresponds to a north orientation well north this is. I had to model, you would tell me it doesn't make much sense to model north with shading and that's true this is just the methodology of how we do it. But this is this is more useful. So this line for instance would look at. I can south orientation without shading option window configuration number five for windows. And this these are the outputs that I'm getting right really high depth of daylighting, you know, this is, you know glare glare how it compares to the others was pretty high and all seasons. It's low and heating load because it's south facing and it's getting a lot of sun so it doesn't need to heat up that much. Hi on the cooling load and then. And then how it compares so. I'll walk you through just the graphics. Very quickly. So for this particular scenario, and this is again just to show you the graphics and I think we'd be happy to, you know, share this link if that's useful but this is what the direct sunlight looks like at summer time right. And so when we look at glare and when we quantify well how challenging would be to control the sun in this orientation of this particular time of the year you see that most of the sun. This is again from zero to four hours is falling very close so this would be maybe four feet within four feet of the perimeter right so it's still not insignificant, but very close to. To the facade, if we now move to the equinox you'll notice that the sun is starting to move deeper into the space right. And so you're starting to have a you're going to have students sitting here. We also modeled looked at glare on the teaching surfaces in case you know just to understand what it looks like along the walls, you start to see that this direct sunlight starts to impact might start to lead the desire to to pull shades right and this final one this is the winter time right inevitably the sun angles are very low right. And so the depth of penetration of sunlight is like half of the classroom right this is for a scenario with out shades but me try to find I'll pick the same. Example with shades just to show you what it would look like and you'll start to see. What that shade for the moment is doing right so now we've added this shade to the same example and you see that in the summertime. We're almost eliminating all direct sunlight right. In the equinox meaning shoulder season September 21, March 21. We are eliminating some of it, but probably not enough to say the shades will not need to be the interior blinds will not need to be drawn down. And then in winter time, once again, this is peak of winter right the solar winter so December 21. Just the sun angles are so low that you know it's just really challenging to control the, the, the sunlight right and so we typically anticipate that it would with really low sun angles classrooms inevitably will need to have their shades at some point of the of the day in daylighting will be impacted but what we're trying to focus on is how can we minimize that time where the interior shades are down because we also know that one shade they're down. It's really hard to bring them back up because they're manual right and so that requires a commitment to bring them back up. So that ends on this. This is really just to show you the methodology and I'm going to go back to the presentation and just show you are big art main findings but just want to make sure that they're, if there are any questions or comments on this before I, I move back to, to my PowerPoint and walk through the last slides. I don't see any people should just raise their hand because I'm not necessarily going to see them. I don't see any hands up. Okay. Okay, so I'll go back to. To the deck. Yes. Okay, I heard a sigh. So these are the key findings and so with all of this web of results. There always is a time that we take to go through each one of them and really identify what the cross effects are between having, you know, between having shading versus not having shading versus the different window options etc etc what is the impact on the various metrics it's lots of information it's very useful for designers who want to play a little bit more with them but we also do the job of summarizing and so we've identified and and then this will address more how they've taken these results incorporating in the design but what we did was through this analysis we identified which of the window layouts where were the best from a day lighting standpoint, right. And so those are highlighted in light teal. And then which of the, the options are the best from a glare control standpoint right and so we've listed them here and so there's some that are clearly better but that might perform, you know, that depending on whether they're you know shades and how deep they are might perform differently. And this is very simplistic because again, the combination of each one of these variables can get very complex. Just I should say big picture this is lots of text but overall I'll just say along the north, there's no surprise right along the north, no direct sunlight, no exterior shading should be used. So you choosing the right option to brings as much that window configuration that brings as much daylight as possible is what the team should be focused on. All spaces under all configurations will have roughly anywhere between 15 and 22 feet of daylight depth. Right and so none of them will really have the full depth. This is standard. This is what we see in typical classrooms. You know, daylight only penetrates about two times the window height and so, you know, 15 feet is 15 to 20 feet is what we anticipate seeing. And then along south orientations, and this is assuming the shades interior blinds are not drawn out right. And the moment your blinds are drawn down, we get almost zero. And then along the south we've made recommendations in particular with regards to various window options and, and what that relates to I'm not going to walk you through each one of them, right. But also, you know, options that have higher daylight penetration also have a higher risk of glare, because that those higher daylight levels actually came from direct sunlight measurements or simulation. And, and this is it. And so I'm going to stop sharing if there are any questions happy to address them but otherwise I'm going to pass it to Dennis going to talk about how they've processed these, these results. I'm going to let Margaret share this because I'm raising my hand. You went quickly through that thank you. Um, so you're balancing the light on different sides of the building differently. Then you had a heat and a cooling. Yeah, throughout that are you assuming all these windows are double glazed Yes, we are assuming. Yeah, well, I wouldn't need I actually have the the U values we typically look at assembly values let me check dbdbd, but we typically assume a we were looking at right now what we assume this triple pain, it's an assembly value of point two. But the results comparatively would probably not be that different if we were looking at we haven't refined that yet. And so this is not necessarily an exercise to look at window you value. But if we were to, if we had changed it by something else simply all the results would have shifted a little bit right and so we'll get to focusing on window you value and specific. But the assumptions for this specific model are is an assembly value of point two. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so, so with that, if we look at the energy side of the building. And I don't know anything about all of this so that's what I want to preface to this is just a real lay persons that the glazing of the window or the fact that there's sunlight coming in. The amount of window all affects the energy, and you're trying to balance all of that correct. Yeah, as you're, as you're giving advice, and then the designers is saying, taking all of that, this is what we think the windows should look like is, and so you've also got the energy efficiency of the building in that equation that you're modeling. So, so the, so, to a certain degree so the shoebox model is really looking at loads and I should have been more specific so thank you for, thank you for bringing that up. So we're looking at loads and loads for the moment are how much this, how many watts does that space need of heating, and how many watts do we need to remove of cooling in particular times of the year. That does not directly translate into energy, because depending on the HVAC system that we pick and how we recover energy. Those values might change and we're not there yet in terms of that and so all we're looking very simplistically is, we're trying to compare. Really, what is the impact on daylight and everything else but we don't want to lose sight of the fact that some of these might in some way impact heating or cooling and so we're using very simple proxy metrics to quantify heating or cooling to your point. We try to keep this analysis kept somewhat constant the window to wall ratio but not perfectly right. If we had kept if the window to wall ratio were identical in all the configurations I could have told you well that the difference between one and the other is exclusively due to a, you know, you know, the, you know, the impact of the shading for instance on the cooling or on the cooling. These options were slightly different each one of them so there's a few options that have a little bit more glass and a few options that have a little bit less glass. And so that's being reflected in the heating as well. All this to say we will be looking at impact of you value and window to wall ratio. That was not the main purpose of this analysis but we kept these metrics, not to lose sight of the fact that these variables might be impacted by how we value it Alejandra, can I kind of try to summarize what I think your process. Please do. I see you in the basis of design there's an assumption about how many with how much window, how much wall and that's based on a very preliminary judgment about how to get to the energy performance. I think we've developed a series of options to look at daylighting at the same time you ran a model to look at the daylight glare. Now, you're going to, I think one of the next steps is just go is going to show us what that means in terms of what are the best window options, and then there'll be another cycle of going back and adjusting the best one for the energy performance. That is correct. Yes, thank you so much and the tool we will be using for energy performance is a full building energy model. This is a shoebox model that isn't necessarily taking advantage of the fact that you might have say, cooling on one side of the building and heating in the other and they talk to one another and they're efficient right. This is a very inefficient shoebox right now that we're looking at so we're really just looking at this and so yes, the energy model itself will give us a much clearer picture of what the energy profile will look like. But what's good about this process given what we've heard in the community is you've, you've started with the daylight piece that you could start with a different starting point but you started with the daylight analysis where you might, in another situation choose to start with another, it's a starting point that's going to go in a circle. That's correct. Yes. Thank you. Okay. I don't see any other hands. So, I'll under thank you. That was fascinating. Do you are we turning it back now to Tim and Vivian and Rick. That the next step. That, excuse me, that is the next step, unless there's something of any more questions you'd like to ask or have answered before we move on. I have a feeling. Well, a question is all under staying for the rest of the presentation, or she can be dropping off. I will be saying, okay, because I can imagine as we go into what the disco teams going to present that we might kind of come back for questions. So, thank you all hundred that's helpful. Okay, Tim, Laura is yours. So now we're going to move into the implications of what that means for the architecture. Share. Can you see the elevations on the screen. It looks like bigger. We can only see the thumbnails. Start this over. That should be better. Yes, much better. So, looking through the fenestration geometry that was diagrammatically shown and all its presentation here is a series of base studies that show those windows as those articulated in the side of a building. We went through several options that broke it up to large windows small windows windows that were higher across the top that would bring like deeper into the room. Similar to what we saw when we walked through the. See the Williams school and need them, just because it was observed that there was a good quality of light in those classrooms. Similar to this. But there was also an issue with glare, which we saw with a lot of shades pulled and a lot of opaque treatments or semi opaque treatments on the windows that's needed Williams and shades pulled. And that was backed up by the analysis that I did. So there are several options here that correspond and we won't even show you all of the ones that we've done. But the result of those studies and the back and forth that we had with some studies that. A series of punched windows evenly distributed across the facade that go from the sill height, which is about 2 foot 8 to the ceiling that we can achieve. By articulating the ceiling plane and putting it up. Gives us the best amount of daylight. You know, we are also weighing other factors the amount of glass that we can reasonably use within a classroom to achieve the overall building window to wall ratio we want. But with this organization of windows and solar shading on the south side of the building that gives us the best option to get daylight keep into the room and to control glare. And this is the option that we're moving in the direction of, and you'll see when we a little bit later in the presentation as we show the whole building, but what this means in terms of the facade. This is similar to the elevation that we were reviewing in the design subcommittee last week, and there's some minor refinements in terms of shading and detailing around the south side that we will look at as we move through the presentation. We also looked at materials. I'm just so kind of as Margaret alluded to before we've been doing a lot and we're going to cover the bases and then sort of wrap up the discussion with a model of the building that we can walk fly around and see all of the pieces that are moving in one place. And that's generally where we've had the most conversation so we're going to talk a little bit about materials because we did talk about that specifically last week in the subcommittee. But we just want to show some samples that of the direction of the masonry that we're moving in. Just as a reference point here is the Hastings school again with a red brick and porcelain. Panel at the third floor, some ground faced CMU on the first floor and we brought some of the samples to look at. Actually, I'm going to go to the material palette that we had in the courtyard at the middle school last week. And I don't know Vivian if you want to talk about the colors and what we want to do with them. Yeah, sure. I think just does a little bit of background. The images that we had been showing we were trying to keep fairly muted just because the way that our software renders is not really a 100% accurate. The condition of the actual materials so our goal for the building is and this is what we've been talking about for the past couple of designs of committee meetings actually is doesn't make sense for the building to be a red brick which is very institutional. So we have a lot of red brick in the town and within the town. Or do we want to do something a little bit different that would really help kind of shipper the building into a new era. Right, we wanted this to be really special. Still evoke school have the scale of a school and particularly as we look at the entry sequence we want, we wanted to bring the scale down so that, you know, there are a lot of young children here. It's very, we want to make sure that the school is is really scaled to these kids. So we also wanted to introduce bright colors to because this is a place for kids and it's exciting and it's fun. So, when we start looking at the color of red, we find that we wanted a palette, we want a masonry unit that is a little bit more neutral. That would allow us to bring more colors bright colors and without it fighting the red brick so this is kind of where we're landing and, and we talked a lot about the fact that you know most of our schools are masonry, or mostly masonry. It is a really durable material and have beautiful, the way we treat it can be really beautiful. And there are many different colors to it so while we make the building primarily masonry, we are then able to introduce other materials to really break up the scale so that's kind of our goal is majority might be masonry we treat it in a way that's light. That's possible which is kind of our goal for the Haitian school which is one of the first couple of images that Tim had shown. And then we look at ways to break it up and then bring the color in so where we're kind of going and what it seemed to be as we left the meeting last Friday is that everyone seemed to agree that yeah maybe we don't want to do red brick we really want to do something special. And so the brick, the palette that you just saw is an iron spot brick. So it has a flex of iron, which gives it a beautiful reflective quality. And Tim's got some other images of buildings that have been completed that I think give you a better sense of what it might be so it's very, it's very cool because as the sun moves around the building the color of the building kind of changes, but you'll see that it still remains it's a it's very deep, rich color with some reflectivity and in some, you know, some some orientations appear darker, but mostly as the light hits it, it feels a little bit like. And so these are some images that we found to help show how a larger expanse of this iron spot looks on a building as opposed to a cardboard panel. So that's kind of the background. So we then went through and looked at the building and looked at as Tim said, how the windows might look, we are still looking at the north versus the south orientation and treating those a little bit differently but we still want the building to be a whole right part of it really needs to relate to each other. And so we wanted to share what we shared last week and then some of the tweaks that we made in response to the meeting and also in response to the study that Ali and her team had done. So do you want to have any questions. I'm actually Vivian I have one this little off topic. I'm just realizing looking at the screen that the folks who came to the design subcommittee I think we're introduced to many am. The rest of the committee was so you might stop screen sharing for a second. Yeah, you know, when you talked about introductions I was gonna say hey wait. So let us introduce the rest of the dinasco team. I'm Vivian, she for all way piece of the office here with me names and really instrumental in forwarding the design so we're all working collaboratively to listen to hear and to address some of the more specific comments so that this building really is responsive right to what we're hearing. So, minimum, Tim and Rick are here from dinasco design. And Kathy, did you have a question. I just, I had a question comments so that the committee members who were not at the design meeting. And when we were looking at those bricks outside they looked really different than what you're showing us right now. They had these red flex flex in them because we were a little worried that the gray would be too cold a color on a gray day. Then I think you also told us, you know, this is we can make some tentative decisions. And if we decided to go back to yield read. You showed us lots of variations on red bricks or not read wasn't always the same. So I just wanted to say that we were leaning in the direction you're about to show us but that we could see that it really made a difference when you did those little accent colors that everyone can see these little stickers and you're going to show us what you what I imagine you're showing all of us is when you add those blue strips or those red strips. Everything looks different regardless of whether you're using a red brick building or iron spot building so I just wanted to let people know where it's a look of the building and also the physical physical mass of the building that we've been looking at. Okay, that's it. Yeah, now that's actually that's really great because you know we were so immersed in it. Sometimes we don't take the time to realize, oh well we should explain more right. Paul, did you want to say something before I know there are no stupid questions but this may be the exception. Is the color or the glaze of the brick impact any energy energy usage or anything like that is that should that be is that a consideration in the at all. No. I think Tim tried to explain at the design meeting our backup. So the brick is a veneer right so it's not a solid two feet of masonry it's really the construction behind the brick is the same as the construction behind. And behind any of the other rain screen products like the porcelain panel so the answer is no. That said a rain screen product does give more air movement behind that that layer and so that does kind of help a little bit in terms of the energy performance. I don't know how measurable it is and Ali I don't know if you. You know I think it gets pretty technical but what we understand is that it does. The rain screen does help that said the rain screen also is a much more expensive system. So again we were trying to balance beauty energy efficiency and cost. One way to think about it is the existing building just has is an unslated uninsulated existing schools are uninsulated brick wall so it does make more of a difference in the existing buildings. It will make less of a difference, but it's also true there's more solar gain on the south than the north, which is going to be mitigated by these other issues but solar gain. Dennis go team correct me if I'm wrong is really from the glazing, not from the brick. That is correct. John has actually it's not first of all it's not a stupid question I have a related question is there with the glaze or glaze surface and the kind of unglazed brick that they have on the schools now. Is there more there must be more reflectivity into the environment. Correct. So, I think you can see that from those photos. There is, but it's very different than say, the reflection from a white PVC roof. Yeah, for instance right. It's just a little bit different because, again, the value of that is pretty deep. So, even though it's got some reflectivity it's not like you're going to be seeing massive solar glare. So sorry, I think I have shown. No, no, it's okay. Just so I apologize if this was already shown is the plan for this brick to go over the whole building or just accents. That that has not been shown today yet but we are about to get to that. My personal input is I think I could see it being accents but I felt like the pictures you showed where it was like a whole wall of it. You know did kind of seem like it could be dark especially think it's wet and you know it's a great day seems like it could be very dark. We'll let Tim get into it but let me just talk a little bit about what the materials are that you see on the screen. So the little color chicklets up on the top are actually the glazing. We're considering glazed concrete masonry units and that's what these big squares of bright green and blue are. So it is really it's great because there's so many different colors and they can actually customize the colors so we're considering using these units in some areas which is pretty cost effective and more or less expensive definitely So that said when Tim gets into the 3D and the views of the elevations Tim you can talk about where we could consider using the masonry versus metal panel or vice versa. The porcelain panels are again a rain screen material where they are mounted on the building with a pretty extensive framing system. The alternative to that is to also use a brick, a lighter color brick to provide that contrast on the upper level so we're still looking at that but this is where there's going to be more cost implications. If we if we hear you say no we really love the look of the porcelain because it feels lighter. Let's price that out as part of our SD estimate or we're concerned let's price you know I think we have the opportunity to price different options and we'll get to that. Tim do you want to show I do we haven't. I think we had an image showing the brick also a light brick, as opposed to the porcelain. Do we not show that one that the building image you showed us last week had the light brick on the, which on the third, the third floor wasn't the same as the other floors. Yeah, I think it was the light brick and I'm wondering. We do not have. Okay, with with the pewter. Yeah. All right, I think the three days can kind of explain it. Bebe's hand is up. Hi, baby. Hi, no I was just going to say. If we explain that sort of the, the other color was closer to that little gray square in the bottom corner, so that people could see the contrast so that they would be the building wouldn't be all the dark it would be both that that, you know, potentially be both that darker gray as well as that light, you know square in the bottom left hand corner. Right. So, maybe we should just move to the 3D so that we can see the materials and context. There are some other things that we want to talk about in terms of a plan and site plan, but well, we can quickly go through as Margaret mentioned the introduction we are continuing to have meetings with users. We don't have any documents from them because they're in development, but just to recap, we met with the art teacher or one of the art teachers we so we are have a little bit more information about how to detail their space. We met with several of the grade level teachers. We have a survey out to them that that's all sorts of questions in terms of classroom technology, whether they want their desk built in or as furniture but they have in terms of storage needs. So when we get that, that'll give us a lot of information that we'll need to design of a finish of the classrooms. We had a very productive meeting last week with Rupert and Guilford's town engineer about the site and then I'll just put the current site plan on the screen for reference. But this is also not updated but it is somewhat updated in 3D when we get to that in just a minute. We're going to take a different approach to the site circulation with two separate entrances, both entrance and egress. So cars, staff parking would all come in at the north exit, buses, vans, service would all come in at the south so that and those two loops would be largely separated and that and that would come in and exit. Come in and exit, yes. The entrance entrances and exits for vehicle for cars and buses and vans are separated. And this was directly a suggestion of the traffic folks in response to the concerns we've heard about traffic. You know, on the adjacent, very dizzy street. Mike's hand is up. Yeah, and if I could jump in on this one. Thank you. You brought this didn't go team brought it to Lori is one of our transportation coordinators who drives a bus, which is a much better opinion than me but me, Tammy and Julio over at Fort River yesterday, and you know all of us had the same reaction which is separating buses and vans and trucks from cars was a really important safety feature of this new plan. It also had the other positive of moving the building, having the potential anyway to move the building up further I think it's south I'm going to say, yeah, we've got a compass on there that's awesome south, which you know provided more opportunities to think differently or think more expansively about play space because it opens up a bit. One of the things we noticed walking around with Donna yesterday is the the entrance, avoid some of the large curve that currently happens. So, I don't know I can't do it from my screen but if you look at the entrance for buses and vans I don't know, right so it's a much straighter path right now there's a big left hand turn kind of curve and the the car driving very much mimics our middle school parking lot which has worked very well for us from a safety and design perspective. Thank you for you know Guilford Rupert Rupert's not on this call today he's at a town and Jason over at the town because you know, kind of I think I could speak for him and certainly Timmy's on the call speak for self I think we all felt much more comfortable moving forward with the model that kept those separated. You know I see the road is connecting them in this model it's a little different than the hand drawn one yesterday but I think the more we can do to separate the, I'm not picking on it Tim I'm just saying you know when we were started it had more of a barrier set up or like that. That is an outdated plan and we're about to move to a model that. But it's a little bit hard to grasp from my level so I just wanted to introduce it there and say it was different and then you might also wonder when we start showing the model why we're approaching from a different direction. Okay, sorry to get ahead of you Tim I just wanted to thank you all for being creative and thinking of different working with the town to think of different solutions and the bus driver perspective was again, the most important one and she had lots of positive things to say about kind of the models and the improvements it would have on traffic flow and safety so. Thanks Mike so I'm going to share the video now, the 3D model. And while he's sharing that Mike was it one bus driver or several just for the notes. Well, Rupert was there and so Rupert is the head of you know transportation facilities, but we were with Lori who she's I mean she does drive buses but she's also has a broader role that she's the point person for one of the point to point people for transportation and has a many, many, many years experience not just driving buses but also doing creating routes. So, you know, we love all our bus drivers but Lori's expertise is on the high end that Ben can hopefully agree with me there. I don't know other people in his office can hear it and but but yeah, but yeah she's her level of expertise and experience not just in this district she's relatively new to this district but in general is very, very high. Great. Thank you. So, now we're going to look at the building in 3D and you'll notice the approach is through the parking lot we just happen to be starting in the middle of the parking lot coming south under the solar canopies. So this path that you're taking will generally mimic the path that a car approaching the building will take. So there will be a turn in the in the main drop off loop that deposits you right in front of the front door. You know traffic will have to be managed you'll want cars with parents driving to pull forward so that there is congestion right at the door but this is certainly a manageable problem and the separation of the bus car traffic is definitely a benefit that makes that worth it. But this is the main view that people will see of the building as you approach in a vehicle on site. In the past we've been showing a little bit to the south from the south entrance to the site. So the perspective will be changed a little bit most. Kathy you have. Keep talking keep talking I'm waiting for just don't move off the front yet. So the the the changed approach to the building will vary your perspective of it we've shown some images in the past where the gym is sort of the first thing you see and and might be an opportunity for our communal some sort of identity piece. As the approach shifts in order on the site, you know, the thing that you will see first will be the music room or the slope of the roof at the lobby that speaks to insurance. And so just as we're evolving our thoughts where we're going to put signage art, any sort of moment that speaks to the identity and building it may be less on the gym and it might be more on the music room in it. We also talked about putting it on the space between the slope of the roof to the right of the window that you see here. So that's the only thing I want to say Tim, as you did your cursor. Last Friday we came up with, we could do a naming of the school it could be the Fort River School or we could do a townwide, give the school a name. And over where his cursor was that white slanted, not quite triangle. You could also have some kind of drawing there, we were just saying you know what would make the front really outstanding. And then the other thing, you know just to answer what Sean was saying, we were still at like, should it be this green in front would some of Vivian's accent colors go through that brick on either side, you know the dark. We were looking at this with what else could be on it rather than final, which made it feel very exciting with with and the white I think you told us was CMU not it was what your designer put in it was the less expensive material I think the lightest of it. Is that correct. Right, sure because we were trying to figure out how could we make it beautiful, but not spend a lot of money. So, I believe right now, given that this is a small area it's rendered as the porcelain panel but if all of these can be any of the material because the backup is the same it's it's a question of which material we want to use as an accent which we like better which does the best job. I mean, I think the company is always a concern. So, you know where we are working hard to develop a composition we like a direction of where there should be accents where there should be the field. And then, as we were finding design we can tweak what the actual materials are in each location. There are a lot of opportunities for color. As you know Kathy said this might not be the right color for the canopy but it is an opportunity to mark entrance to draw your eye. We also have the doors with a bright color here which is a technique that is used on some of the existing schools and it's rather effective. I'm just going to pull around a little bit we're showing signage on the music room now but obviously that could be in the space that Kathy just mentioned or elsewhere on the building. Tim just because Paul's asked this question for what time day is this model for right now. This is the morning this is about drop off. Okay. Jonathan's hand was up and it went down. That was exactly what I was going to ask I was going to point out that this was the morning for folks. As we move to the north side of the building. You can see the cafeteria, the library above. We are looking at ways to design the fenestration of the library that will deal with sort of the west facing nature of some of it. With the sense that yes there is clear to control but it's also a library and the occasional bit of dramatic lighting in certain areas may not necessarily be a bad thing. Cafeteria with doors to the playground. Continue to move around. Tim, can you show people where the stage would be in the cafeteria of just with your cursor. The stage would be just to the right of this entrance to the cafeteria so if you were to go through the glass that would be the cafeteria proper with the service lines in the back. And then, if you made a turn as you went in the door the stage would be right at your right. And you have a plan that the music room which is over on the flat part could enter onto the stage from the room. Yes, or they'd go out and come in. So the plan currently shows three practice rooms in between the platform, the stage and the music classroom proper. Because there are several distinct music programs that exist in the district there's band chorus orchestra and then the general music education the music classrooms won't be directly off of the general music classroom which is often how it's done. But since you need access from other programs while while there might be a music class in session. We have a quarter between the stage and the music classroom that would allow you access to each of those music practice rooms and then we've also discussed. So now we are getting the stage itself an additional music practice room by putting an operable not soundproof but sound resistant at the stage opening so just to increase the program area that could be used. So we are getting to the full north facade where you can see the pattern of the classroom windows that we're moving in on the north facade, they do not have any sun shading down the exterior. You can see where we've integrated accent panels currently of the colored masonry that we showed in the material photographs. Also, the facade as a whole you can see where the darker masonry material is on the first and second floor. The third floor is the lighter material and then we also bring the lighter material to the base in certain areas, just to break up the darker masonry even further. So it's about two thirds brick one third porcelain panel, plus other materials, roughly. Yeah, that's about right. And can I just ask if the one third that's porcelain was CMU do we get that pale color or is it a darker color. The brick manufacturers can't really get as light as the porcelain. Okay colors and they also are, they have a little more pigment in terms of it being a little more yellow or more gray so we're still looking for some of those lighter colors so hopefully. We can at least share some images of buildings with a lighter color and you'll see that I think from far away they look pretty light, and in comparison to the iron spot they'll look pretty light but they won't. I don't think they're going to be as as cool, not that we're looking for really cool grays but do you know what I mean it's kind of a relative. Yeah, I really like the looks of it and I'm just down the line you'll tell us the cost implications of choices. So yeah, yes. Paul. I'm sure we'll look at this more, but I'll be interested on southern on this facade. How much the building is going to shade the playground area in the outdoor area there. That's maybe that's probably not for today but at some point. That is absolutely study that we can do that will show at all times of the year how deep into the playground. The building will shade but the playground is significant in terms of size and you can't really see here but these dark or yellow colored splotches are currently where the structure play the actual playgrounds themselves are and they're a good distance away from the building and the shadow of the building at lunchtime would probably almost never be there but we will document it and can tell you precisely. Great, thank you. We're just going to do a full swing around the building we've actually been asked a couple times what the east looks like and we've never actually shown it just because it's sort of the back but as we circle around you can see. It's a continuation of the same language there will be a stair there so it. There will be some difference. There will be glass at the end of the corridors that allows daylighting and wayfinding in the building. There will be an entrance. And as we get to the south of the building. You can see solar shades on the classroom windows on the exterior. These are baguettes. It's for one foot deep in space above viewing height so looking outside. Unless you are extremely tall, the sunshades would never be in your field of view. Looking up at the sky they will somewhat but they're probably the most effective means of reducing the glare that. I was talking about earlier. There are many configuration size types materials that can be used for these shades and these are just a first suggestion. It could be one single shade that's deeper or series of shades that are not as deep as shown here. So designing that element is going to be a study on to itself but this is what we're showing now to work with the window geometry that in the direction we're moving and to get the effectiveness of the southern solar shade. Can I just add. I think it's called a baguette because it looks like a very elongated sort of, you know, shape that's sort of pointing on the ends of ground or in the middle. And Tim maybe after you finish your zoom around if it's possible to look at one just so people understand the term is where the term is coming from, what it means visually. That's super quick Tim because I want to support. I just want to point out something that I did not. Sorry my phone's ringing I don't even know where this is. The baguettes that you're pointing out to something that our study. I'm sorry this is the first time just moved into this house and I don't know how to turn off the phone. There we go. Sorry. Not even calling us. Okay. The one of the things that our study found was that the single shade itself and you saw it in some of the graphics but I should have pointed it out a little bit more is that the single shade is doing a good job perhaps for the energy but that from a glare standpoint there's still some coming in from above in below right and so we had a very engaging discussion with Dennis go in terms of what can we do to make sure that that the shade that for whatever shade we provided actually provides more glare control in the interior of the space so I'm very excited to see this baguette design that would effectively just break up that that solar penetration into much smaller bits which is far more tolerable and much more unlikely to lead to shade deployment think about it. The only way to break up the shading is I like to equate it to being say under a tree that is leafy but also porous right where you are getting some direct sunlight but it actually doesn't bother you as much because there's a certain amount of protection too. And so it just wanted to call that out in this design and and say how this is very nicely a very nice response to the performance driven discussion we have all. When you were back on the eastern exposure. I think that's what it was with the long that we hadn't seen before. And so you're saying that those windows will show will be able to see all the way down the corridor to the other end of the building. Not the entire length of the building the academic so if basically there's a stair in the middle between the academic and the core from that point on, you would be able to see to the window, I mean, it will let light in we don't have solar shades on these windows because it's it's basically a transition. I was hoping we'd have a situation like at MIT there's the infinite corridor and there's like one day a year when the sun goes all the way down and we'll gather and watch it on that one minute one day a year. That would be very cool. Well, it's possible facing west facing east right. In the winter it will get pretty far down that corner. As we continue to circle around the building. We're going to be what is now going to be the bus loop. There is a door to the building here, just at the start of the academic area or start of the classrooms. So, you know, the exact geometry of the drop off loop and it will just accept it has to be designed but there will be a place where the buses can drop off and kids can go directly into their classroom. As we move there's the gym service area in between. And then we move back to the front of the building with a pull off area for vans on the southern loop. And whether Tim is there also a door to the gym right in that glass area. Yes, there is a door to the gym right here. So, if we were going to use a gym for community space. On a day when the school wasn't in operation. Pulling area or something like that. One could figure out a way to get into just the gym. Would that be true. And then, you know, we haven't designed this other in the loop yet, but we'll probably introduce some visitor parking to it, or a connection that could be used intermittently to the northern parking so the sort of call it reorganization of the site circulation just happened and there are a lot of details that we have to work out but. Yes, the gym could be used as a separate engines for voting or whatever and and we've got a way to put some visitor parking on this loop or access to it. Another thing the set so southern drop off loop for buses, other loop for cars, they sort of converge at the front exit but don't actually cross in front of it. This is not designed yet, but this sort of starts to hint at an opportunity that will have to have a large space right at the front door that is easily accessible from both bus loops but is still traffic free. So, students could gather there drop off. But the entrance to the building could be truly inviting well designed with ample space. And as we tilt up. You can get a better sense of that space and one of the other points I believe Donna talked to with Julio and Tammy yesterday about is, you can really see behind the trees but we are showing some of the PV canopies over. What is the car drop off loop so that could be semi protected. But, you know, the exact location of all that is still has to be developed in a solar study with our consultants. And just, you know, the massing is evolving. All of the rooftop equipment will be pretty well consolidated in one area of the roof not really visible from the ground. And that is. Can can you just go up just to respond to Paul's question and look at the north side of the building around. I mean this is morning shading right so just so you can see that. As the space gets developed to, you know, the gathering area that we design, you know, there's opportunity to place it in areas that will have, you know, son, a majority of the year. And where we currently are with the design there are lots of individual studies that we are doing that to develop a penetration further to make this canopy in element that will speak to entrance where we can really introduced art and color. Further study of the fenestration in the gym lobby. Music room so that we can control glare and make the spaces beautiful. But we just wanted to give you an update on where we are and. Vivian, do you have any other design. Tim, can you move it around to the north? Did I miss it? There we go. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Paul, that's the morning condition. Right. Yeah, I think this is the general form that the building and the roof lines are going to take we're still looking at ways to treat. We're going to start with the exterior walls. We'll try to bring some real samples of the lighter color masonry units. Kathy, unfortunately, you won't be there next time, but we'll certainly share images so that we can start to hone in on the actual materials. But you'll see that we're going to start really massaging the glazing. We want to have as much as possible to again, bring in as much natural daylight but we're going to need to balance that also with the program and what's going on behind it. For instance, the media center, you know, we show a lot of glass there. We also understand there's a lot of books that need to go in there. So, as we kind of continue looking at the program requirements, some of the blazing, you know, it's going to change a little bit, but in terms of the lightness and the field of the building, this is really the direction we're going. Vivian, relative to the books, you just want to say a couple words about the meeting with the librarians which produce some important feedback. I think Tim, do you want to give us a little summary? Yeah, so, as Vivian alluded, both the Fort River and the Wildwood have rather large collections for an elementary school. So, accommodating all of that will be an exercise. Part of that is because they have a collection in two languages due to the Common Advocates program. They also have due to the existing library in both schools sort of being in the center of the circulation, the library houses a lot of functions that may not necessarily be in the library in the new building. It will still be the heart of the school where a lot of things happen, but it won't physically be the crossroads of the school anymore. So, you know, we had a discussion working on what they do now and what will have to be accommodated in the future library. And then we also had a discussion about the secondary needs of the library. They do a lot of book repair and book things. So they have work rooms and stuff like that. So we're going to incorporate all of that into the design and moving forward. I see Paul has his hand up. Yeah, I have two comments. One is this is an opportunity for librarians and everybody to think about what we want our libraries to look like in the 21st century because to say, oh, we had this here and we want to replicate it there. When we had when I had relocated an office, we did that and we did it and we didn't do it. And when we didn't, when we did that, it was a mistake. So always take the opportunity and a situation like this to envision where you what you think the ideal library should look like. And it's probably not a place that is full of books, you know, quite honestly, it's probably a lot of different things that libraries are doing now. And the second thing I want to say was, I really like what you've done with the massing of this building, the variability of the roof lines that you've introduced the sort of different materials that you have on, you know, on the cladding that really makes the building look interesting. And it's basically just a rectangle but with lots of different elements introduced to it that I find really appealing. And so I want to thank you for that and really kudos to you on this. I mean, I don't, I don't think there's an option for this but you know the main entrance being in the shade I think that's just by nature of the site there's nothing we can do about that. And I do know it's the reverse at the end of the day, the end of the day. And I do notice that you've given the Fort River sort of a post climate change with there. The future. It's like, it's Lake Como riverfront property really. Do you have a question earlier that I interrupted. Well, I just, it's a question comment but I'll start with a comment I love. I really like the angles in it and I know you're working through the massing and that some of those will change, you know, do the slants of the roof but it makes it really interesting and I have a question and then I think Sean can speak for himself. I think Sean wasn't sure he liked this iron spot brick, brick darkness, and so I think you're able to show us this with a red, you know, whether it's traditional red or light red, the stuff you had in Lexington where you had a red brick. So I'm just saying what I wanted. The comment was, we don't have to make a decision now we can look at it. If we like the basic shapes and we like the idea of the accent colors we could say, show me a red brick or keep this brick so that was a comment the question was when Alejandra showed us the best windows when they did all their things. The north side and the south side had different numbers on them, and I didn't write them down fast enough but you would know you know it was like north, number 10 and number four were the best for one thing and the number south was 34 and 10 and then 46 and nine. So my question, my question was, does the window scheme need to be the same on the north and the south. If there was a window scheme for the south that was better for, for daylighting, because I personally probably wouldn't even notice if, you know, on the classroom window side if there was a slight variation, or if is it such a subtle difference that you pick the one that was in the, the best, the crossovers where they're the fours, the fours or the 10s were in the same. So it's just a question, because I saw you put the, you know, you put these shades, and then with that on the south side you've got that exterior ad. And I've seen those in Amherst College and UMass windows. Does that mean you don't need a shade inside the classroom. Does that provide just enough to take that slanted glare off. You also have to shade so it's a south side question of windows. I will answer and then the following one say, add anything the big differently currently we're showing the same geometry of the window openings on the north and south. The big difference between the north and south is the exterior sunshades which do the work that create the difference between the north and south that is not to say that we might not tweak the geometry on the north and south. The, and we did not pick the best performing. I forget the numbers, but best performing was a much larger, not much, but it was larger, and it would make it harder to achieve the overall window to wall ratio we want for the entire building force the glazing and live library and cafeteria to go down a little bit. So we think we chose the best balance. And then to add there will absolutely be interior roller shades everywhere in the building just because as, as, as well as we design the exterior sunshades where we're never going to get every situation. So, and also for things like projecting inside a classroom you might want to just draw the shades. Yeah, I'll add winter sun angles are extremely challenging to to manage in general. And so you definitely want to have that flexibility, even if you're, if you're, you know, covering. Ideally you have them and you only deploy them, you know, 20 days a year or something like that. But, but you'll need to have them on this out. Yeah, I'll just say Phoebe was right seeing the, the darker brick broken up with the windows and with the, the other contrast I think it looks much better from what I was thinking so no this looks good. Well, you know I want to suggest. I think it might be helpful I'm not sure where we would put this but it is possible to leave a pallet of the proposed materials somewhere that folks who aren't able to attend attend design subcommittee meetings could see it, because I do agree with Kathy that it is in the photograph that was taken. It's, it's not showing the richness of the color that is in that brick. So, if that's helpful to people I'm sure we could manage to acquire another sample of the brick board and share it. Put it you know have it somewhere that folks could drop by and see it so. Mike has his hand up. Yeah, I'm not trying to reassure reassure son or anyone else but as the person on our, you know that design group that wants the brightest colors. I preferred this in person. Compared to a lot of the other ones because there were a lot of bright colors that you can't see on a photograph of it but in person you can see so I think it's a great idea. To host a brick panel, if it makes sense, you know our building's open pretty good amount of time, you know, certainly I'm sure the town building would as well but just, I think it really feels different seeing it, and I'm not Jonathan or Dennis goes like I don't have design background but just visually it feels really different being there. So we're going to be looking at live versus a photograph of it and maybe just the type of material it is doesn't photograph in the same way because it's kind of specs of color that that come out but I was like the, the far end of wanting really really bright and I was pretty happy with that what it's worth. And gather some real samples. In terms of, I think we're looking also at brick shapes and Norman is a is a slightly longer proportion than a modular brick but has, it's really a nice shape and so I think we're going to try to gather some of these materials in the colors that we're doing and we can bring them next week and actually leave them somewhere so Mike maybe in the office or anywhere, you know, we'll have it. We have a front entry in our in the district offices where you know it's a pretty public space anyone could you know come in for that and you know open throughout the day so I'm happy to offer it if the town wants to do something different that's fine too but I'm happy to host. The other thing is the meeting next week the subcommittee is in the. So if any other committee members want to come during a, it's, I think it's going to be from one to three I think we've settled that that's the time that room is actually available. If you want to stop by and look at them but don't want to come to the meeting you could stop by and look at them too so we could both leave them and then have them to be seen. And then it's got his hand up. I'm getting myself. So, I'm really pleased with, with, you know, how the design has been developing over the last few weeks. And so I'm going to make a couple comments, but I don't want them to seem like I don't like the direction it's going to have some thoughts about additional things that the design team can explore. In the view that we're looking at right now I really like that that colored form that kind of encapsulates the, the, the kindergarten rooms, if we if you could move back to the, to the front of the building. There's something about the boldness there you get a, I think you get a nice pop of the color, and I don't feel that same kind of pop on this side. And in my head I'm not sure if that's just because the green kind of blends into the shadow in this particular review at this particular time of day, or if it's also possibly the form that the canopy. The other way the roofs on the rest of it are working. It can't be itself seems a little stayed in. And I don't know, it might be interesting to see some other forms or other ways that it, it could use the color and pop a bit more. It's just, it's just a personal personal comment, personal taste comment. We absolutely agree. So you've got the bright color on the south side and the darker color where Jonathan's doing you know the, you've got an orange over on the kindergarten and this so it just the combination of the shape and the color maybe doing that. Yeah. Yeah, so we'll, we'll look at different color options and combinations and, you know, we also have just started talking about how we could really make that canopy. So we're looking at sort of the building as opposed to something that sits on legs right on columns so we're looking at how we can actually reduce or eliminate those columns and, you know, then it becomes really more of an extrusion of the building instead of something you just add on. So that's, that's coming. Sorry, I can't help myself, I like to push occasionally. It's like you hear our conversations in the office. Okay, I see Phoebe has her hand up. I also, can you guys hear me. We can. Okay, sorry. I also think that if we're talking because we've had quite a few conversations about murals or artwork or that kind of stuff. We may want to think about that at the same time that we're thinking about how bright to make these colors where to put these colors shape of, you know, shapes all of that kind of stuff because I think we want to balance those we don't what we don't want to end up with is picking out all of these bright colors and then, you know, having a mural go on the wall and feel like oh geez. You know, we made it. They clash or they you know those kinds of things so I don't really know when the artwork piece of it comes into the design. But if we're going to be at a stage soon where we look at how bright do we want these colors we did really like that green is that green that we liked on the front of the school how would that react to that we may want to balance those out a little bit at the same time. No understood and I think we are not at the point of selecting artwork, but we are at the point of locating it because all the things that you're talking about. We have to have a spot where the frame for lack of a better word is is worthy of the piece and it doesn't get diluted it doesn't distract from the architecture. The location and the opportunity for art is something that's absolutely part of the design right now. Tim, when you when you say the location of it and see Tammy is there and I know she worked with the artists that did the current Fort River, the big murals. We might want to get some input from the art teachers just because one choice was that side that front entrance side you just showed where the name of the school was. Another choice you showed us was that side of the gym. Another choice you showed us was that slant underneath the Eve, you know so it feels like they're two pot three possible outside choices, and they have more or less space to them. So I just think the location also is important but what would go on there like something smaller could go on a small space something bigger could go on a big space. That was just my comment on thinking through where it might go but how big or small it might go. Getting some thoughts of that before we even know what the it is. Yeah, that's a really good point because even though we have a lot of surfaces we cannot consider throwing artwork on every surface because it's like, it's like just building the building there's a balance of where you want your eye to go and if there's too much noise, then it diffuses everything right so I think as we move forward we're going to start using placeholders and I think what we can do. Tim it's just a sharp start showing you know what does it mean if this is a big pattern here and this is a smaller pattern there. As we start to look at it we want to develop a story that we're telling with the artwork and I don't know if that is part of the subcommittee that will be developed for the public art piece or that's something that you want us to kind of start first. So, just thinking out loud. If we can come back to the next, there we have a bylaw on percent for art, and it would go through kind of a commission getting public input, meaning broad public, but particularly public like the users of the building. So I'm my main comment right now is think of possible places, but not all just this place or that place and we also have the, it doesn't have to be outside the building it could be inside the building. So just trying to think of it be and for the exterior, if it would help to have it on the outside where it would help the most in that's that's my comment wasn't that I had a preference. It's just when you showed us that one by the side of the gym. It was pretty cool because you reproduced the Fort River one, but I don't have a preference so it. So can I just chime in. We have to go through. Yeah. Yeah. So I agree. And Kathy, I, I have shared those procurement documents from Salem with you for a similar thing but Vivian to your question. I think the committee that would be created to do this should really start with a set of possible locations from the architects, and perhaps some samples. Of what those have looked, some examples that they might look to for how to think about what those are. So, I don't think it's super urgent, but I think that would be the thing that the committee would start with. So I'm just looking at the clock and wondering, Tim, and Vivian. Is this a good stopping point. This is. So the, there is a design committee meeting, subcommittee meeting next week, and I will try to be there virtually just to listen. I can't be there physically, but it's in the town room. And then we meet two weeks from today and we're on the 130 scheduled that one. Right, Margaret. That's correct. And we'll be bringing it back. Then two weeks after that, which is November 4. The hope is we'll be focusing on the outdoor layout of fields of parking lot of traffic loops of playgrounds with an interaction with people who have been really interested in what's going to happen to the community fields. So it'll be a whole piece. So that's just the upcoming meeting piece. And one thing I just want to do, if you want to show the agendas we've set up, we posted them now, but Dennis go work with Margaret to say what's happening at each meeting. And it was sent to everyone and we're posting it. But as you're pulling that up, I, the one thing we need to do is I am not going to be at the next, the next full committee meeting, the 21st, the 21st, I will physically not be able to be at that meeting or virtual. So someone has to volunteer to be an interim chair, because we don't have anyone designated designated to be that either volunteer or we have to vote on someone. But someone has to realize that two weeks from now they're chairing the meeting, and I will take on the responsibility of getting the agenda posted. I can do that from anywhere in the world. And I always, you know, the agendas are getting simpler because we say continuing design discussion. But just if anyone wants to raise their hand to chair, and you've seen, you don't have to, you can just introduce everyone called their names and turn it over to Margaret, but someone has to chair. If anyone wants to raise their hand. We're going to Jonathan's hand is up. Mike put his hand up and took it down again. Should have been three seconds slower. You'd like me to do it. I'm happy to do it. I honestly, I don't mind doing it. I have done it before. And as long as I can mostly turn it over to Margaret and, and it didn't go to, I'll be fine. Well, in general, we're trying to shift more of the facilitation the meeting to me so Kathy can be more of a commenter so that's totally fine. Okay, so is everyone agreed to that. I don't have to put it to a vote, correct Paul we just said interim chair, or do you want me to take a vote. I think we should vote I think and I'll move that Jonathan salvin service chair in any time of Kathy's absence. Okay, I second that you notice the way he worded that Jonathan. So I'm, I second it so I'm going to do a roll call vote on the order of the names that actually they appear on the mice list so Jonathan. Yes, Kathy say yes, Sean. Yes. Angelica. Yes. Ben, Ben. Come back to Ben Mike. Yes, and thank you Jonathan. And Phoebe. Yep. Yes. And I didn't get a Simone. Yes. So the only one I didn't hear from is Ben, I don't know whether Sean or me or Sean Sean Paul so I'm not doing a good. Oh, I see each time I call in the name it goes down a list sorry, I should use the screen. Paul. Yes. Sean. I think you've called on me but I'll say yes again. Yeah. Did I miss anyone. Just to confirm so okay. We have three absent right Rupert Allison and Alicia. That's correct. And then Ben didn't vote on this so one not voting right now. So he's trying. Very creative. Venice to yes Venice here and he has he has. Well done. So, um, we have about. So. Do you think that's enough for back's meetings and then Margaret has sent it to everyone and we're. Posted in the packet. Yep. For the content of the meetings next time. Is that all right with everyone and the comments now. Okay. So we are open for public comments. Do you see anyone. There's two there too. Yes. There too. Okay. So Bruce. You're with us. I had exactly the same question that Kathy had about the window configurations on north and south because I did notice as Kathy did that. Whereas number six was the worst option for the north. It was the south. It was the best option for the north. Kathy, you asked that question because you got an immediate answer and I thought it was a good one. It was really helpful to understand that, as Ali had said, the day lighting analysis is rooted in all sorts of other and that was an example of the outside configurations actually being used to add to your design decisions. I think that the direction that the committee and the design team and the consultants and so forth are taking with this. I think that the seeming resolution for the traffic problem which was kind of intractable almost in the discussions over the site. It seems to have by design cleverness and the thoughtful reflections of everybody in the town staff and so forth involved seems to making what seemed like an intractable problem. Much, much less so so it's very, very heartening I think to see how this is developing. I'll add a comment like Jonathan I'll add a personal comment for what it's worth. I think I'm not as attracted by the vertical striation of tone on the gym. I think it would be better if it was a single tone it's a little distracting and otherwise nicely integrated building I very much agree with Paul on that but I'd like you to consider whether that gym massing really needs to be a series of vertical black and white stripes, whether it wouldn't be better if it was just the basement, tied into the basic mass of the building. Thank you again. Great job. Very encouraging. Bye bye. Thank you Bruce. And then I see one other hand. Rudy. I think I have allowed you to talk. Hi Rudy Perkins for me embers. I have to concur that design is really moving in a great direction. It's it's dramatic and still like sort of playful and I really like where it's going. All of the things. I think we shouldn't be afraid to take color down into the horizontal plane of the sidewalk. In some cases to emphasize main entrances as a possibility I don't know if it would work. I thought the bus entrance might need a little more color. You know, although kids will right away know where it is. I'm like the adults who come to visit the school. It looks sort of like a service entrance kind of hidden and you might want to think of brightening that up and maybe tending the portion of the sidewalk near that entrance to match the doors. The separation of the two entrances I think is a great idea, but I wouldn't lose the flexibility you have by two entrances to the school that can connect. So I hope that either the sidewalk in front of the West canopy is built to handle heavy trucks, emergency vehicles, or else there's a connection between the two loops. There's a bollard, maybe a lockable bollard or something. If emergency fire trucks or the like have to get around the building, or one of the entrances is blocked or choked with traffic and you need to get around it. It would be good, I think to connect the two loops somehow by vehicular means. And then I had one more comments here. So on the West end, thinking about the two spaces, the music room and the admin panel, as possible locations for art sites and then carrying the some kind of color stream through along the canopy between those two art locations might be interesting if the murals had some bright color that could sort of thread between those two spaces across the edge of the canopy. That would make a really bold West end and announce that West entrance and I think that the gym wall needs to have some importance as an art site now given how you've done the building. So really good job I think so far and looking forward to more discussion on this. I think that the design picks of the colors. The iron spot does look a lot better in the sun and if you put it out for public view. You can put it in a window maybe so people can see it in the sunlight at Mike's location, because it really does change the look of that brick. So, I'm sorry about that. Somebody calling. So that's it. Thanks very much. Thank you Rudy. Is there any other comments, questions, Sean. So Kathy, if we don't do today we do have a couple invoices that need to be approved I don't know. Oh, I forgot the. Forgot invoices did I leave it off the agenda also, but we do know it's not it's not on the agenda. We can take them up if people have time, but we could leave them till the next meeting. Yeah, next time we just as long as we put it on there and we'll probably have, we might have one more by them. Yeah, I forgot to do the standard line for invoices. Sorry. It's okay. Well, and I didn't catch it either Kathy so So does anyone other and and and I do the that time slot on the design team what the design subcommittee has been really fun and to the extent anyone comes and wants at the very end and wants to walk the where the building is, I found that very helpful. We did we've done that once or twice and it just gives you a sense of, oh, this is where the front entrance would be and how far away from the current school is it with the also a sense of how much, how big, how big the spaces you know how much space there is on that North end so I encourage people to at least walk the Browns and Tammy walked it with me but I don't think I walked it accurately Tammy so we should get, you know, my it was my best guess so. So I want to thank everyone, and I look forward to, I'm sharing these pictures I'm over in Switzerland, and Kate, I don't think everyone knows but I'm sharing them with my family over here. And they all love it. So they've been following the project along the way. So, thank you very much. And I think we can say that the meeting is adjourned. Okay, 1021. Thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Bye