 Hello, everyone, and welcome to our first Mentor Talks for 2021. My name is Asha Bae, and I'm joining you from the Office of Alumni Affairs at the U.S. Department of State. Our office opens the door to alumni networking, professional development, and grant opportunities. Mentor Talks is a virtual series for exchange program alumni and anyone interested in improving themselves and their communities. Every month, we bring you mentors who share their stories, and offer tips and advice. Today, we're discussing the best ways to start and run a successful nonprofit organization. And joining us are two leaders who are doing exciting work with their nonprofits, Julia Biabaut, co-founder of Tech in the Tenderloin, and an alumna of the Critical Language and Scholarship Program, and Brian McCarthy, executive director and president of War Toys, and an alumnus of the Fulbright Specialist Program. Both Julia and Brian are active exchange alumni, having participated in the art, culture, and transforming conflict alumni-tie seminar in 2019. Do you have a question for Julia or Brian? Post it in the comments. Now let's meet our guests. Julia is co-founder of Tech in the Tenderloin, which expands career and life possibilities for low-opportunity youth and families. Her organization uses the latest augmented and virtual reality technology in fun educational events for kids in some of the most challenging neighborhoods. Brian is president and executive director of War Toys, a nonprofit organization that positively impacts the lives of children who have been affected by war. As a photographer and storyteller, Brian tells the stories that aren't being told by advocating for children, and helping create toys that provide support for children in war zones. Julia and Brian, welcome to you both, and thank you for joining us. Thank you. My pleasure. We all know that the pandemic has changed how we conduct business these days. But despite those challenges, what are some of the basic things to consider when starting an NGO? Brian, let's start with you. All right. Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everyone, wherever you might be. I'm going to kind of do just a bullet point version. Starting a nonprofit, at least from my perspective, isn't hugely different than starting any other business, but it comes from a different starting point, obviously. Really it's about identifying a need, what in your local community, what in the world, what is something that you want to affect, however that is, and then it's finding your particular voice, your particular approach, what can you do to address that issue? And then as I discovered a little later than I should have, it's really honing that into a mission statement, into a really focused, you know, I want to do X and be able to say that to someone in a coherent, concise kind of way. And then it's, you need allies, you need to build a team in the US. If you're starting your own 501c3 nonprofit, you have to have a board of directors. And that's crucial. That's the time to really recruit the folks who can give you the best perspectives, the best advice, save you from pitfalls and all that. And then it's, again, unfortunately in the US to form a 501c3, you need a fair amount of money to go through the process of filing and building and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, little bit by little bit, you find the things that you can achieve in the short term that lead to other things and so on and so on. It's just strategic thinking, not trying to bite off too much from the beginning, but have those big visions. Have that big dream and then break it down into the steps that you're going to need to get that. So that's kind of my version of it anyway. Okay. And I just want to follow up on that. Like with the fundraising, how do you, where do you start with that? Yeah, hopefully Julia can have better answers on that. I, you know, I have not practiced fundraising code yet. You know, I've had some very generous supporters from the public, but for the most part have self-funded or have gotten help from family or friends to get this going. But, you know, once you have a 501c3, then you can start going for the grants and the bigger things, but it's a slog to get there, unfortunately. So beg, borrow, steal, do what you have to do. Okay. You sound like a beginning filmmaker. And it is a lot of ways. Yes. Okay. So Julia, what are your thoughts and experiences on where to start? Yeah, well, thanks for having me join today. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, I think it really just a lot of echoing of what Brian said. I think the main thing, you know, most, most people, I think come to the nonprofit organizational structure from a sense of passion and wanting, wanting to help. And those are wonderful motivations, but it's about finding your niche. And again, like Brian said, it's very similarities between a for-profit and nonprofit startup are very similar. It's really about finding your niche. But I think importantly, finding that synergy between what you want to contribute, but also what's what's needed in the community or whatever ecosystem you're trying to plug into. The other thing I would say I wasn't quite as in tune to before I started a nonprofit is the various structures that are available and different types of nonprofits that are out there. And that's maybe not the more exciting, exciting aspect of it. But it is a really practical, fundamental component of nonprofits. So those are other things to think about when you're getting started is what are the different types of nonprofits that are out there? There's very charity oriented ones. There's very kind of community service, very arts oriented, even foundations and think tanks. These are all types of nonprofits and ways to contribute and serve needs that are out there. But kind of getting to your question about fundraising that can really affect where your funds are going to come from and how your community sees you in terms that you're trying to plug into. There is an alternative structure, legal structure in the United States, which I highly recommend. As Brian mentioned, the 501C3 is actually a very expensive thing and involved time wise, legal wise to set up. And so that can be a real barrier to entry for folks. And the alternative to that, which is a more recent over the last several years structure is what's called fiscal sponsorship. And that's actually what we are taking the tenderloin is. And I highly recommend that it's quick. It's easy. It enables you to get up and off the ground very quickly, basically. And now there are actual 501C3s that that is what they do. They are strictly there to be fiscal sponsors. We actually belong to International Fund for the Arts in San Francisco, great organization. So many of them specialize in certain types of nonprofits. But I mean, we were able to get that set up within like a week and it's very affordable. I think it was $150. And then there's also the other advantage of that is that you're now in a network of other nonprofits and part of an organization that can help you with a lot of these logistics and connections and relationships that are also important to not just getting started, but sustaining a nonprofit. OK, so finding your niche and then figuring out where you want to be in the nonprofit sector and also figure out how you want to set it up, whether it's a 501C3C or corporate or sponsorship. Fiscal sponsorship, yeah. Fiscal sponsorship, yeah, which sounds great, by the way. Yeah. So we've been talking about how to get started. So when we pivot to how to keep going, Julie, you run a nonprofit and a for-profit. So what are some of the key points you've learned on how to maintain your projects? Yeah, so I would say two things. One is certainly relationships. Any organization, whether it's for-profit, nonprofit, it's a huge job to try to provide a full solution. And so it's really part of being an ecosystem or part of a team or partnerships that can provide a full solution. And so I would say to sustain yourself, to specialize in a way. I know it's really hard to do. I am so reluctant to do that myself. I think everybody likes to, you know, feel this freedom of expression and action and what they do. But ultimately, that is the sustaining path, is to kind of find your niche and become very competent and well known in that. That is the path towards long-term sustainability. The other thing is, I would say, aligning what you're doing with other folks. And in particular, whoever your quote-unquote customer or beneficiary is. Ultimately, it has to be something that they want or need. And aligning with that as well as your partners and collaborators' interests, their organizational or mission and whatnot. And so I think, again, that was something that when I started a nonprofit, I had very much the charity mindset for a nonprofit. Because those were the types that I, nonprofits that I was mostly exposed to. And so, you know, there's this sense that you being very, you know, charitable in your perspective, right? But ultimately, it takes a lot of passion, a lot of time, a lot of motivation. And so finding your, you know, people's own self-interest is totally fine. Like that is a good thing. Aligning what you're doing with what is going to help them advance their cause or passion or whatever is really a good thing. That's how you sustain things and get through the hard times is when you can, people have that self-interested motivation in a positive way. That sounds like great advice. And Brian, what do you think is the most important thing that you do, that you think about when you're trying to maintain your organization? Well, I think Julie is a tough act to follow here. The only thing that I feel like she missed, which is so comprehensive, was just discipline. It's that showing up every day, you know, I have this attitude of my time is paid for, which is kind of what you need in the startup mode. Because War Toys, even though I've been on it for 10 years now as a nonprofit organization, we're less than two years old. And so it's that showing up every day, it's having this attitude of, all right, we don't have any money, so I need to learn how to do this. And just making yourself do it and showing up again and again and again. Other than that, I've also found having tangible but small achievements really helps. I kind of reference this in my sort of opening statement where it's so easy to, I want to save the world. I want to do these big, giant things and to get lost in that. And I think both for a young nonprofit and older nonprofit, you have have demonstrable successes. You have to be able to show people, we've done this, we're doing this, we're going to do this and also for your own sanity, just to know that, OK, I haven't saved the world yet, but, you know, gosh, I did these things, just whatever you can do to feel some sense of accomplishment, keep going. Because it's going to be a slog. I think anyone who started a business nonprofit or otherwise, you know, it's going to be some years until start seeing results. So whatever you can find to keep yourself going and to feel that you are, you know, reaching that will help you be disciplined, but at the end of the day, you just have to keep going. You have to keep doing the grant writing and the crap you don't want to do because you just got to. OK, that sounds like a good answer to me. We actually do have. So we have a limited time. So we have several questions coming in for our viewers. So let's get started with those. And the first one is how did your exchange experience shape your career path and and helped you get to where you are today? Are there any skills you learned during your exchange that have made a difference in your work? So who wants to take that first? Brian. All right, fine. All right, I'll go first. So let's see. My exchange program, I was a Fulbright specialist and I worked with Kalyu Design in Hong Kong and with our design department and developed a program that was based on observations from at that time, eight years of work and war zones and went and developed a program to look at the toys that I found both there as well as in the U.S. and really sold everywhere. And so that has had a direct result, direct line, really, to the nonprofit and what we're doing now with COVID having stopped operations in the field before they really began. We pivoted to this project that I started really under the Fulbright program. And it's making small but impactful changes to generic toy lines going to the sources in Hong Kong and China. And just doing what we can to steer the play patterns, the messaging, the representation, all that kind of stuff found at the cheapest level of toys. So it is, again, direct line to what War Toys is doing now and what we've been developing. And I'm incredibly grateful to have had that experience and the opportunities that provided after that. Oh, sorry, no, it's not. Well, thanks for saying, don't you have an example of when I do. Yeah, so again, long and short of it is we've been trying to find ways to just make tiny changes that the market will accept. And the market will will distribute for us. And what we started with is a simple, seemingly small task, getting photojournalist into bags of plastic soldiers. Their inclusion alters the play pattern from just us versus them. You're promoting gender equality, racial equality, press freedoms on a massive scale. And we're doing this by taking on the cost of developing the figures, production molds and then building relationships with manufacturers. And in a nutshell, giving away these designs and saying, just go sell them and letting the market do what it's going to do. And as you were saying, there are there are prototypes. So this is our first prototype photojournalist action figure. I'm going to pull this up to give you a better view. This is a 3D printed version of that in much larger size. Just so you get the idea of what we're trying to achieve. But getting these and we've got our first woman in the works, very excited about. But getting those into the bags. Again, it's not going to change the world. It's not going to be this huge impact, but it's moving the needle a little bit. It's it's something that's achievable that will then set us up to do bigger, bigger things. We really want to look at the generic toy market. And give children, especially lowest economic levels, the same value. Developmental value messaging, all that kind of thing that we'd find in the Mattels and Hasbro's and the mainstream like boys. But those things aren't sold in most places. So, you know, it's your turn now. I was going to say something that ties in with the exchange alumni experience. The two of you met at a thematic international exchange seminar in Santa Fe a couple of years. It was an amazing experience. Completely. Yeah. Do you want to talk about that? Yeah, I'm going to actually springboard off of the Thai seminars. Then that's a nice segue. So my my exchange experience was I was a critical language scholar for Mandarin Chinese and studied in Xi'an with a wonderful group of other exchange folks. And so I would say the the indirect effect really on what I do now. It's has really changed what I do professionally in both for-profit and nonprofit and my interests and everything. A lot of that was just through the relationships that that came out of that with fellow students as well as teachers and stuff from my program. But particularly I would say the opportunity to attend the Thai seminars. So I've been fortunate to actually attend to and both have radically changed my life and what I do. They've both been so productive. So the first one was around climate change. And that was really where I started getting into augmented reality. I won't it's a little too long of a story to connect that to connect those dots. But our community project that we put together out of that Thai seminar with the grant that we were eligible to apply for myself and three other alumni put together a climate change oriented project that involved augmented reality. And then more recently I attended the seminar a year ago around arts. And by this time I was very into augmented reality and using the arts and augmented reality to promote public conversation and for conflict resolution. So both have been incredibly instrumental. Again, a lot of I think we keep kind of keep hitting on this theme. A lot of it is the relationships that come out of that and to have I think the biggest value also is having a concrete project kind of getting to what Brian's point that he was making as a demonstrable result or that this is what we are working on. It helps forge relationships and gives outreach opportunities, but it also gives people something concrete to put their heads around, because you can explain what you do, particularly in my world augmented reality is pretty difficult thing to explain. But I think the same thing with Brian, like what when you talk about what you do, it can be hard for somebody to envision, but when you can show them what you do and show them a project and have concrete results to talk about. That is really when the needle starts to move and you start to get traction and people are more receptive. So yeah, just I can't say enough how much it has the Thai seminars have impacted my life so great. Okay. So it's great to hear both about your exchange experiences and your exchange alumni experiences. So I'm going to go to a question from Shanggupta. How do you handle the financial implications of starting your organization, such as hiring basic staff while your organization has not started earning yet. Take that one Julia. Sure. Well, you don't I will just say that it's it's when you're doing a startup again whether nonprofit for profit. It's a lot of you doing everything and whoever you can recruit to do that. I think having a team, I think it would just be almost impossible for me anyway to do it by myself. So having a co founder for my nonprofit as well as co founders for my for profit is really essential. One just the magnitude of an amount of work there is to do when you're starting a new endeavor, but also for the, you know, emotional support and expanding your skill set it takes an immense number of skills to get these organizations down and move them forward and it's next to impossible for one person to have all of the skills that are needed. So, you know, having a team and recruiting folks that want to partake in your vision and expand your vision. I think that's the other thing too is, you know, my best ideas come from other people. So are really, really the best ideas I really come to appreciate come from that diet, the actual dialogue between people that springboarding off of ideas so. So I would say, that's the reality is it's a lot of you and your co founders donating a lot of free labor. And then we do subcontract out, you know, skills we don't have a lot most people it's very normal to start with your own money. I think it's a big borrow steal from family and friends. Certainly there are investors that help in both the nonprofit and for profit arenas, but most of them want to see some traction on your idea before they are willing to invest. It sounds like a lot of you volunteer your own time, maybe have some savings built up and, and then just dive in. And then when you have something to show that can help you get the financial means. Yeah, so really you just got a white knuckle it, and you have to roll up your sleeves and do as much as you can with what you got and kind of as I was saying earlier. Don't get too wrapped up into what you think you have to do or you have to achieve or have to appear or whatever it is and just do whatever you can what you got and that will hopefully lead to the next step and so on and so on and so on. To pull the string is what I call it. Pull the string, follow the trail. Yeah, I think that leads well into our next question from Shahad who asks, what is something you wish you knew before starting your nonprofit. I mean, I could say I, I referenced in my first little statement about mission statement honing your vision that kind of stuff. And my biggest mistake that I made was, I started having conversations with people about I'm going to start a nonprofit and, you know, because And even though it was established I knew what it was I didn't necessarily know what the nonprofit was going to be. And so I kept kind of kept getting thrown into the deep end because people enthusiastically set up meetings for me like oh you got to meet senior executive but the but whatever. And I would just march off these meetings and not really have that mission statement or that own division in a really concise concrete way and even years later I'm still not awesome at what's called the elevator pitch. If you don't know the expression it's, you know you're writing in an elevator you got that much time to tell someone what you do. So, that is a mistake I made was just not really honing that into a concise. I'm doing more toys to do X Y and Z. Sounds like you've got it down now. Yeah, I would agree. You know we're trying to do three interrelated but still different things and so it could be hard to have that message. And what about you Julia. Yeah, that's a really good question there's so many things. Sorry to pick one. I would agree I think I wasn't aware how in a sense flexible, you needed to be and willing to pivot so it's important for many reasons to be passionate about your idea, but open to change. That, that concept your passion will evolve and that's a good, a good thing. So, just flexibility, I think, is a really good open mindedness and flexibility is something that's really, really needed. Okay. I'm going to pivot to another question for you Julia. You have both your feet in the for profit and nonprofit world. How do you manage both and what do you find is the main difference between each type of organization. I don't sleep. I'm sorry I didn't I didn't realize I cut off your question there. Well, that's the truth. But I think, again, I'm going to use the word alignment there again. When I first start both of these kind of coincidentally started about the same time and they were fairly different endeavors. And to keep both moving forward and stay thing. I, I've had to kind of align them more and so now there's much more overlap in terms of the content of what we're doing. And that's aligned well with my personal passions with my team's passions, and where the opportunities are and I think the, the benefits to both. are nonprofit beneficiaries as well as in the for profit sector. So that that I would say has been my my coping strategy is to find those those overlapping areas that work. Okay. And then, and but how did you make that transition from the for profit to the nonprofit. I don't know that I'd say there was a transition as more. You know, and, and yeah, I don't know that I'd say there was a transition it was more in a corporation in our nonprofit actually I always kind of joke we I accidentally started a nonprofit and a lot of that is because we actually our nonprofit came out of our first ties seminar project. And it was really just a community benefit. One off event that we were trying to do for the tenderloin community, but everybody liked it so much they wanted more. And so then we kind of went back and did the needs assessment and many of the other things that we've been talking about here. And then we started the nonprofit that way. So, for me it wasn't so much a transition as it was this at adding a new component to to what we were doing and doing it in a different way, a more deliberate way. Okay. All right. And we have a couple more questions. And Danisha Z. He asks, what are the opportunities for nonprofit funding from the private sector. Could you talk about corporate social responsibility. I take that Brian. I can dive in a little bit it's challenging for sure. And especially in the time of Kobe. I found that most corporations, and even a lot of nonprofit funders are focused on pandemic response as they should be. I think word boys is such a young organization I can't talk too much about what it's like outside the pandemic time, but I've encountered a lot of challenges. I don't really have a good answer on that now I'm really thinking about it. It's worth having those conversations it's worth being on some doors, but I would say set your expectations pretty pretty low. So, start with companies that are smaller, the apples of the world, Microsoft's those kinds of people they have a million people beating down their door looking for money. Find smaller organizations who may be aligned or maybe compatible with what you're doing. And try to convince them at least in a non, you know, obvious way that there are perhaps marketing benefits or communication benefits or kind of what's in it for them. Because corporations, even though they have nonprofits. In many ways the nonprofits serve a marketing message or a social responsibility message and yes they want to do good and yes they do do a lot of good but you still need to have that angle and be the right type of project or whatever So identify your market identify, especially the smaller mid tier folks who maybe don't get so many people beating on their door and talk to them. But do you find that with the smaller and mid tier folks. Like how do you know they're going to have like the money to offer you some help. And there's no knowing, honestly, if you just have to knock on the door you have to, I think, running an on profit or even a for profit business there's a certain amount of just accepting, you know, the shame of just like, hey I'll cat in hand and knock on the door, you have to just go see. Add on to that to what we've found is that many corporations again, no matter what the size are more interested in volunteering first. And so they're, you know, they're looking for opportunities for their employees for team building as well as giving the community I mean this all comes from a good, a good place, you know, of their employees and as the corporation. And so, you know, going and asking for the money first might not be the first step. These relationships can take a long time to build. So creating volunteer that's something we've we've been focusing on now is create before COVID, creating in person volunteer opportunities for their employees to participate and and work with the youth or whoever, whatever your your opportunity is. But that's been a great way for them to get to know us, us to get to know them because it's really just, you know, it's not just about them giving you money, it's about being a good match both ways. And so that's, and these relationships can take a long time to develop so from the point of a company, particularly a large corporation volunteering to the time that they may decide to donate funds can be a year or two years, you know, sometimes longer. Okay. And speaking of building relationships. How are you doing that during COVID times. Julie is good for a solution. I actually have found it's been a little easier. It's just counterintuitive. I don't know if it's everybody's just hungry for contact and conversation or whatnot, but I've found people actually to be much more receptive to just kind of cold, cold meetings. LinkedIn is our main outreach channel for both the for profit and nonprofit and people have been very open during COVID to just having a conversation. You know, and getting to know each other finding out more about what they're doing, what we're doing and finding those kinds of synergies that make sense. So don't don't be afraid, I think that's the thing is to reach out set up a zoom call and just say hey it looks like you guys were doing some cool stuff and would like to chat so I can't really add it into that that's basically it I just, again it's that losing the shame and just reaching out to the folks and sending emails and phone calls and whatever I'm much more of an email guy than a phone call guy or even a zoom guy. I'm not going to test, but you just do what you have to do. Right. Okay. So we have a question from Fatima, who asks, what are the biggest challenges you faced in starting your nonprofit. And how did you get around them. Brian. Oh, who is the curse on this biggest challenges. I mean it took me no exaggeration probably six years longer than it should have to actually decide you know what I need to start nonprofit. I started off, as Julia said and I kind of picked myself I didn't have my opening remarks but had a fiscal sponsor for some years. And which even for I think entities outside the US I think you can do fiscal sponsorships with organizations in the US and be then accept have us grants accessible to you. I'm not positive on that. Anyway I'm dodging the question because I don't have any answer. It was just deciding to do it was the hardest part for me and then doing it. I wanted to have a bit of a nest egg and support from friends and family, financially to get it going, but it was still just deciding to do it, and committing to that. Yeah, I would say, for me, it's, yeah, let's see biggest challenge there's been a lot, but again just kind of sticking with it like there's been a lot of points at which. It's true for my nonprofit and for profit that I've thought, this is it. We can't go any further. And yeah, and just just keep it on going. And that's really where having a co founder partners, a team makes a huge, huge difference. Because if it in two ways one is I find that we're usually everybody has those points but fortunately we're not usually at those points at the same time. And so you have other people to help talk you through it or out of it, whereas if it had just been me, I probably would have not been able to see past this particular obstacle. You know, again, that just kind of gets to the team and relationship. Yeah, having that support network. Yeah, I'll add to that really briefly that at least for organizations or folks starting stuff in the US we have to have a board of directors. I cannot stress how much thought you really need to give to the board. I'm very fortunate to have an amazing board that lean on quite a bit. I don't think I could dole or will otherwise corner into helping me. But it's made all the difference for sure. Can you tell us more about the whole board of directors aspect. I personally don't know much about. Sure, and I'll, I'll even say that was one of the things I was resistant of or what kept me from really launching more toys as a standalone nonprofit was this idea that I had my head that somehow having a board directors or folks that I'd be able to, you know, I work independently, I ran screaming from corporate life in early 2000s and haven't gone back and so the idea of having a structure of any kind I was resistant to, but in fact it has been remarkable. I have spent a long time cultivating the board building the board and where it is now I think is fantastic. And if you're used to being a solo act. You know, you've got to grow and just learn how to involve folks more and accept that help. You've any comments Julia. I totally agree. I think that was kind of more mindset. My mindset as well. I think that is that it would feel we don't have a board, but, you know, it extrapolating that to the team is, you know, I was raised to be very independent and, you know, do my own work and all of these things which are all great skills, you know, for confidence building and all of that, but it's so much better with other people. I think that that was what's been the big surprise to me is really opening up and, and it's just more fun, and it's more positive and more impactful so while you know I won't say there's not, you know, frustrations at times. The, the positive just really outweighs the, the negative and I just, it's made it a much more enjoyable journey and I certainly would not be where I am today without my team. Okay, thank you. So we have another question from Ivana. She asks, how do you sustain a nonprofit over a long period of time. I can't answer that because I'm all of two years into it. So, oh gosh, Julie has to answer that one. Yeah, no, we're still young too. What are we we're like three years I think something like that. So I will let you know. Okay, but I like to pretend I haven't answered that but I just don't. Yeah, yeah, I think one thing I have noticed with nonprofits in particular that is pretty common is there's kind of periods of growth and quietness so it's not uncommon to be like this just because of changing resources changing personnel. You know those kinds of things so don't when you're in one of the down periods don't let that discourage you. Okay. All right. Well it looks like we're just about out of time. And so I'd like to get some final thoughts from both of you. And I guess we'll start with Julia. What would be your number one tip for those trying to start up a nonprofit organization quickly now with the difficulties of the pandemic. I would say, I'm going to combine kind of two of the things we talked about one is that the needs assessment, basically your due diligence understanding the reality is whether you want, whether you're aware of it or not. There is an ecosystem already out there doing whatever it is you want to do, or something that's tangential to that and so understanding your place in that ecosystem and doing the, you know, the research and needs assessment to find out how you can fit into that is really essential, and also will help you develop your your thinking about what you want to do. And I actually think COVID is a really good time to be doing that. Like I said I found that people are much more receptive these days to having those kind of user interviews needs assessment interviews to find out that type of information which then also has the added benefit of starting to develop relationships that you'll need to sustain it. Thanks, Brian. And my advice is repeating more or less what I've said, a couple different times in a couple different ways and that's do what you can what you got. And especially during COVID when resources are thin and options are thinner. So just start with something that's achievable now. Start building your team. The more you do, even as insignificant as it may seem initially will lead to bigger and bigger things. So just start the start the pebble rolling. Do what you can. Great advice. Thank you both. Thanks for being with us today. Thank you. Good luck to everybody. Yeah. Yes. And I'd like to also thank our online viewers for participating and joining us and sending us your questions. Be sure to keep your calendar open for our next mentor talks in February. To learn more about exchange alumni and their impact impact on the world. Visit our website at alumni.state.gov. And be sure to follow us on LinkedIn at hashtag exchange alumni and Instagram at 22.33 underscore stories. Thanks for watching and see you all next time.