 And we are recording. Great. Welcome everybody. Um, so. First agenda item is to review. And vote on the minutes. Um, do people want me to pull it up or do they have them open on their screen? Everybody. Okay. Any comments on that? The minutes or folks. Um, Well, first, actually, who, who's the next minute person? I think it's you, Laura, unless you are exempt in which case it's me. I have been making myself exempt. So it's you. And, and. Okay, I can do it. Okay. Thanks, Darcy. There's no comments. Does anyone want to motion to accept the minutes? I moved to accept. Stephanie, do you want to go? Sure. So I'll just do a roll call. So just make sure you want to mute yourself. Um, to vote, please. I'm just going to go in order of my screen. So Der. Drucker. Yes. Selman. Yes. DuMont. Yes. Yes. Ravi Kumar. Yes. Rose. And roof. Yes. All right. They pass. All right. So next up is public comment. Do we have anybody? We don't have anyone here at this time. Okay. Great. So then we'll move on to staff update. Sure. So, um, It's been a bit of a crazy week. So, um, Working on the brick grant that's moving along. Um, you know, the things that I've been primarily working on CCA effort is moving along. One thing I wanted to, um, Mention that I didn't at the last meeting was that the NEMS network. Meeting, uh, was very much focused on resilience hubs. And it's something that I've been, um, Interested in, but didn't know a whole lot about. Um, But something that I think would be really interesting for the town to explore. And resilience hubs are. They're, they're not exactly emergency shelters. They're kind of like even more expanded than an emergency shelter. And they're more than a community center. They're kind of like a. A meeting of those, those things, uh, kind of in, in one place, or they can be in several locations within a community, but they address the needs of people in the community. Um, And they're really, um, They're, um, Designed by the members of the community really based on what the needs are. And, um, in some ways, they're sort of a direct reference to climate change in that. They serve a need when there are, um, Extended power outages or even, um, Even just sort of basic community services that are generally needed by people. Um, so. It's, it's kind of a, like I said, it's kind of like an emergency shelter meets a community center meets the survival center kind of all rolled up in, into sort of one location. Um, the idea in what peaks my interest is that, you know, providing a space that could potentially be powered by solar with battery storage so that it could sort of isolate in times of some kind of long-term power outages if needed. And that it would be a place, um, That could serve the community and, you know, we have a few locations in town. That could potentially serve that need, but this is just an idea that's just brewing. Um, it's something I thought you all would be interested in. Um, I'm sort of having a few preliminary conversations with some folks, but it's not gone farther than that. So I did want to share that with you though. And I think, um, Once I have a few more conversations, hopefully it's something I can bring back to you all, but just, uh, something that I think. Especially given the work that we've recently done with community members. Um, That really identifies a need with an Amherst to, to address. Folks needs in the community that aren't necessarily being met, even with the wonderful services and the organizations that we do have. Um, you know, there's more that could probably be done and provided. I'm thinking of things just like transportation to the market. You know, maybe there's a center that could provide some vans or van service that would bring, you know, that would sort of run trips to the local grocery stores and would. Something that could be, um, Maybe make trips to each of the housing complexes and, and that would be something that sort of is housed as part of the community center. So it's just really, um, an opportunity for the community to really brainstorm and think about what could really serve the town. So I just wanted to. Share that with you all. Um, other than that, Stephanie, just one question. Have you been in conversation with Michael Williamson, who coordinates the CERT, the C-E-R-T. Thing in Amherst. No, I don't. I have it. It's, it's a town thing. It's citizens. Our community emergency response team. I believe that's the acronym. They are trained, um, partly through, uh, some FEMA grants in the fire department, but designed to sort of go out and, and help with either emergencies or in some case, traffic control for town events. Oh. Yeah, I do know about them. I know someone who was, who was actually on the ag com is affiliated with them. So. Yeah. So, and I think actually, I do think I've talked to Mike, um, several years ago, but. I could, I would definitely pursue, uh, speaking with him. The thing about the resilience hubs, that's a little bit different is it's not, you know, the town has an emergency response plan, but this is something that goes kind of above and beyond that. And it's kind of a, more of a 24 seven, um, service. And it's not something necessarily that the town itself provides, but the town could partner with other agencies that do provide those services. And we could find a way to make them more accessible, um, you know, and to serve the needs of the community. And I don't want to be presumptive and say, you know, what those things would be. I just threw out a few potential ideas based on things I've heard, but it really is something that the community would work on. And there are several towns that are developing resilience hubs in North Hampton is one of them. North Hampton is partnering with community action. And they, what the, what the city is responsible for is providing the location, the building location to house, uh, you know, house this work, but community action is actually the ones that are going to be sort of leading, um, what that will, you know, the response to the community and what that will look like. And they'll kind of do more of the operations. So I just think there's, you know, there are some pieces in Amherst that exist that, you know, might be able to sort of work together. Um, that could, you know, really expand efforts and, and really better meet the needs of people within the community. So, um, just putting in that out there, I think there's a lot of good things that are happening. I just think it's, you know, would be great if we found a way to, to go even that much further. So, um, I think that's kind of what. You know, the idea of resiliency hubs are, that's kind of a spirit behind them. And some of you may already know about them or may know more than I do, but, um, you know, I think that's, you know, I think that's, you know, I think that's, you know, I just wanted to share that that was really the focus of the last NEMS network group. Okay. Great. Thanks, Stephanie. Any eCAC member updates? Yes, Darcy. Um, I just have a couple of things. One is that, um, the, I just heard that the CRC, the community resource committee of the town council is, um, um, submitting a, um, some kind of memo in the packet on Saturday for the Monday meeting, which has to do with zoning bylaws. And they're going to divide them up according to what, um, what they want, what changes that they are going to be looking at. For the immediate future, you know, they're going to divide them up according to what they're going to be looking at and what changes. So, um, um, we're being, I think. Asked to weigh in. As we go. And I'm just, uh, did we, we sent the letter, the, the letter that Andrew wrote, correct. About zoning. Oh, can you hear me? Uh, you know, I have to make sure that I sent it. I'm going to send it away. Okay. Um, this is sort of, uh, you actually, if you haven't sent it, you might want to wait until you see what. The Saturday memo says. Really? Because. Well, I don't know. I guess, I guess we should send that now. And, uh, but basically the memo that we're sending says. Um, this is going to be a long-term process and we want to be. Involved as it evolves. And so this seems to be the beginning of when we could be involved of starting. When this memo comes out. Um, because they're, I think they're going to be, they're going to have some specific proposals in there. Um, So, um, Um, I think that's, um, You know, if we want to make any proposals about the, the exceptions to the zero energy bylaw with regard to the library and, and with regard to renovations. This might be the time to do it. I. Maybe post budget post whatever we're doing around the budget. Um, That's just another issue out there because of, you know, the fact that zero energy bylaws can be relevant to upcoming, um, upcoming requests about the capital budget projects. Okay. So it sounds like, um, Um, I think we're going to be doing that. Um, And we will maybe put the memo from the, um, Zoning in our packet for next time. Did you have other updates, Darcy? I know you sit around the pace. Email. Um, yeah, I, um, Um, The, um, The building task group, uh, Was looking at that because it seemed like it was a really great possibility and that, that, um, That maybe we could recommend that Amherst join. Um, I don't know if Stephanie has an opinion about that, but, um, Um, I just heard yesterday that Montague is joined. Um, And, um, Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to come up in the, um, In the community choice aggregation. Um, Meetings coming up too. Uh, as a possible, you know, Projects within the three communities that are involved in the CCA. Um, Andra might be able to, um, It's a, you know, Energy, energy efficiency opportunities for landlords of multi unit apartments, Which might be very much of interest to us as far as, you know, Really targeting low income communities. All right. I missed what the, um, Who was offering that. Darcy Ford is all an email about it on the 28th. Um, It's a Massachusetts mass development and mass DER. Program. It's, if I had to summarize it, it looks like it's kind of like mass save, but for commercial and industry, Industrial buildings, multifamily properties. And nonprofit building buildings owned by nonprofits. Yeah, Jim. I read out quickie. Uh, so pace stands for property assessed clean energy. And the concept is that you can apply for loans. For commercial properties. You can't do it in residential properties right now in Massachusetts. Long-term loans that are tied to the property that get paid through your utility bill or your tax bill. And so it doesn't show up as a balance sheet item. But it does show up as a balance sheet item. And so you can't do that. But you can do that. And so you have to participate. Municipalities have to opt in in some way, which I don't fully understand with mass development who is administering the program. I think that's sort of. Sort of a deal. I've got a sort of slightly revised system now that allows a few extra things. Also something that is in the outline. Yeah. And in generally, it's actually. It's a great system. It's really solid. Yeah. Have there been conversations about Amherst opting in? Not beyond me with a few select individuals, but nothing. Not a concerted effort. But I totally think it's something we should do. If you recall, I think there was a concern Darcy that. The concern was that it could potentially lead to gas. More gas development, but we have a moratorium. So. I think that doesn't really apply to us anyway. So. No, I'm, I'm totally in support. I think it's something we should probably do. So, but I think you all sort of. Making that recommendation. Would allow me to hopefully go forward. You know, we recommend it to the town manager and I could. You know, sort of follow through. So, yeah. So it looks like. It says individual municipalities may opt into paste by a major majority vote of the city or town council or the board of selection. So it sounds like we need to. Put it to the council, right? But that goes through the town manager. Okay. I don't know why we have to make things so complicated. Okay. Okay. Anybody see a reason why we shouldn't opt into this program. I move that we ask Stephanie to opt into the program. Okay. I would, I would agree. It's, it's a, we shouldn't leave this on the table. Okay. Okay. Should I do a quick vote? Cause it seemed to be a motion. Sure. Okay. So. Yes. Drucker. Yes. Selman. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Wow. That was good. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Darcy. That actually was. Yeah, me and initially, but thank you, Laura, for remembering it. And it. What, what was that motion? Exactly. The motion was to make a recommendation that the town. Participate in the PACE program. Okay. So that means it could. It would be something that could go to the town manager and the town council. When, because it'll probably have to go through both. Yes. Uh-huh. Okay. I mean, I think it's, one of those things where I would, you know, I can bring it to the attention of the town manager. And you all could quickly pen something. It doesn't have to be anything extensive. Just. Pen something stating that you would like to see the town. Pursuit. You know, participation in the program. And that you. But you would address that to the council. So. Okay. So we need, we need that. Proposal. Okay. Any other updates from any, anybody. So next. Is. Lenean discussion of. Carp outline framework plan development. Right. I go first gym or should I. Why don't you, why don't you Jim Ben Lauren. We've got a couple of different things. Which you should have in front of you. So go further. Yeah. Let folks know just right before the meeting, Stephanie sent an email about this in case you're not on your email. Yeah. So. Yeah, we were not entirely sure if we were going to be here today or not. So sorry for the delay. At the last minutes of those documents. So basically. The last draft of the plan was sent around. Beginning of November. And I sent it around in a bit of a hurry before leaving on my trip. So when Stephanie mentioned that there were some questions about the. How we had addressed folks comments, I thought it would just be better to go back through and respond individually to everyone's comments. And then to in the process, send an updated outline with anything that I've missed. So hopefully these two documents together address everyone's comments and concerns. From the initial round of the. Of the document. I'm happy to answer any specific questions. I don't see address in that document. I sorted them by each commenters name. So you should see all of your comments each comment in a. An individual line and then the response next to it. And I think. The one. The one thing that we were asked to sort of specifically address was the idea of. Where in the plan, there'll be a roadmap. Of actions leading to the 25% reduction. Landmark by 2025. So Jim was going to speak to that a little bit, but I'll just say that high level and we have included it as sort of its own section before we launch into the individual. Sectors. And the thought is that we'll have sort of. We'll have to look at some of the. Maybe two page overview. Of what the major actions are that will lead to that 25% reduction. And then point people to the pages where they can read more about those strategies in depth in the. The following sectors. Sector sections. So Jim's going to talk a little bit about what that can look like. And in the meantime, I have questions I would like to ask. I'm just going to send Stephanie or send Stephanie an email of any. Further questions you might have. Yeah. And if you have any questions now or any thoughts about any of that. Definitely. I can tell the jump in. I learned it a pretty thorough job. Sort of all the way along. It did a pretty thorough job sort of going through the comments and sort of pushed in opposite directions and so some work to resolve that and then a couple of spots where which you know totally makes sense um and a couple of spots where there are some things that came up in the comments and I can't think of them off the top of my head but I can probably look it up while we're talking um where uh there's some thought about how to do the thing that the comment is talking about probably a little differently than what you're suggesting in the comment but all of the comments were great uh and really uh thoughtful worked their way through the diet the outline was awesome the outline is much better uh and um and probably the the big thing so feel free to stop me uh the big thing is uh this idea of explicitly right upfront talking about the uh the sort of short term actions to get to the 2025 goals um and I that um you know was always sort of part of the process but making it really super explicit right upfront I think is really a great move um uh so there are a couple of things that we are considering as items that really really do that uh and um as we start to flesh them out uh um you know that then we'll have an opportunity to look at them you know pretty soon and and we can sort of think about the particulars of them uh but um you know obviously uh adoption of the cca and whatever form and name and structure it is is going to be a major uh piece of that milestone um and it'd be very interesting to get a sense from the cca committee what the expectation is uh of adoption and you know what the what what you're sort of what the the vision of or what you're working sort of hypothesis of where that actually gets in in the five years so cca is a big one a second big one is going to be uh something around a just some kind of disclosure benchmarking uh ordinance uh for the you know probably I'm guessing for Amherst it's probably things over 10 or 15 000 square feet which probably takes up everything that is not single-family houses essentially um and that'll be a big one and we have some pretty good examples of what that gets you uh in terms of reduction um but also it sets up for some nice long-term activity uh you had a question question was somebody have a question yeah Darcy um could you just explain that a little more what you mean by a disclosure ordinance and are you referring to new construction over how big 10 000 square feet is sort of likely I I won't land on that but that's sort of the likely choice that jesse probably has some thought about that um uh and what do you mean by disclosure ordinance uh so uh there's a process that a number of municipalities have gone through uh in which uh their the municipality requires any building over a certain scale and the reason they they use a cutoff is because there's not you know all kinds of buildings that really sort of makes no sense for um and uh over that scale buildings have to uh uh uh report uh to the municipality uh the their energy use and water use on an annual basis um that's that new construction that's all that's an all building at portland oregon I think is a pretty good one that's fairly recently I don't know how it's gone but it's I I I just want to command you for bringing this bag it's got teeth I like it no I think it's good it covers all buildings it's not just new buildings uh and um uh and uh what it so generally the way it works is that New York City has done this very successfully but of course New York City is New York City uh but um the way it works is the first step is everybody has to report and usually you do it through a mechanism like energy star or something like that uh which is a mechanism that allows that and structures it so it's all the same and everybody knows how to use it or at least can figure out how to use it uh the second step is that you do some analysis on what that looks like the third step is that you then start requiring people to buildings to hit certain targets and either the targets are a target of retrofitting and a percent reduction or a target you can decide on what the targets are and there's a number of great options so it starts as information and then slowly moves toward actually driving you know the existing energy used down so that's one it's a it's a pretty well tried process um it's a little uh Amherst is it's a Amherst is a little bit small for this but I think it's a great opportunity to really figure out how to do it in a smaller municipality and have it be effective and that would be that would be sort of an interesting leadership role for their town to take uh and um sort of along those same lines comes a benchmarking process where for uh for municipal buildings to set some benchmarks and uh and try and hit those benchmarks we already have the town already has a net zero ordinance which applies to new buildings although I don't fully understand how it's applied and how it's not and I have to understand that a little better um uh but so the town could establish a benchmark a set of benchmarks for existing town buildings and so it sort of goes with the reporting process where you have to sort of do that and you report and the town has to report and you know all those things sort of go together um so that's a second one a third one is is electric car infrastructure and there's clearly going to have to be a process for developing electric car infrastructure um I think a probably uh the probably the fourth one which I think is probably the most effective sort of overall especially if there can be if the cca can be successful uh is and in a lot of ways these kind of all go together where it's about greening up the energy supply switching everybody to electricity and uh and then reducing that electricity demand so that a green supply can better handle it um and so the fourth one is uh a program to explicitly go after multifamily residential buildings for energy efficiency upgrades and that's harder but I think also because uh just from what we've seen and what we're starting to understand uh from the housing stock and from some of the folks we spoke to plus the the um task group process that a it's important and has a big quality of life effect and b it can have a big effect in the short term uh before the full greening of the grid happens to really reduce overall uh energy use and greenhouse gas emissions um for the town so those four things are sort of obvious uh that come right out yeah darsie how is four different from two uh two is just about reporting um and and then has a longer term thing that that makes uh building owners have to comply with some some targets uh two is a is a pro is a more active process more like mass save it's a more active process to go out work with building owners to really make you know set up loan processes is where pace could be super useful uh set up loan processes set up finance mechanisms so that buildings can actively go out and upgrade before they're required to that's that's sort of different actions but the buildings in four would also be required to do too right well nobody would necessarily everybody would be required to do too yes exactly sorry I thought you were saying the other way sorry yes correct you're quite correct uh so those are kind of the things that we see is like okay we've seen a bunch of these we've looked at a bunch of them they fit what's going on in the town there are many of them are already in action and it's a matter of like strengthening that action and giving it more teeth uh and they don't this is sort of a funny one it's they don't necessarily cost money except for the last one uh you know the electric infrastructure there's probably funding to do that uh or at least some funding to do it um but the ordinance it'll cost some in staff time for sure uh the um you know the cca is already in action there's obviously costs associated with that but it's it's sort of not like oh we're going to have a big uh capital campaign to do this um so in that way it's also these are actions that can happen quickly so anyway those are that's our current thinking I think they're probably likely to be a couple more that emerge as we as we're sifting through the material I don't know Lauren do you have anything that you might add to that um well I don't know Jim if you want me to jump in on this but the the sort of residential disclosure element as well um which is related to the concept of a benchmarking and disclosure ordinance but um there are programs that exist to require for instance landlords and homeowners who are selling their homes to disclose the energy efficiency of either the unit that they're renting or the home that they're selling so that prospective renters or buyers are aware of the full costs associated with either renting or owning that home and it's sort of uh the intention is that it's a market driven mechanism that encourages landlords or property owners to make investments in energy efficiency upgrades before they go to rent or sell their homes um so that's another one that we're looking at in terms of both the sort of equity side of things um giving people the full picture of the affordability of a unit or a home and then also the potential greenhouse gas emissions reductions associated with the incentive to reduce uh or to increase energy efficiency so that you're more likely to rent or sell your your unit that's another yeah that's a great reminder I was not thinking I'm sort of forgotten about that all good I had a question um and Jim maybe this is wrapped into number four but something that I don't see as calling out specifically in the outline although I may have missed it um is the heating element so I think um meaning you know how are we gonna transition our thermal thermal loads in our buildings away from oil and natural gas um and to me that feels like something we need to call it specifically because whereas renewable electricity is more of a systems thing um you know individual homes and individual buildings or heating systems are are much more individual um and it seems like something that that we would maybe need to to do more work on somehow yeah I think that's a great thought um and uh uh the it's sort of an interesting situation that you we've seen where a lot of the multifamily buildings actually are all electric um which is kind of cool I mean it's a little muddy but it's kind of cool uh and um and so there's an opportunity to work with that as a structure to upgrade those systems and that's kind of what I was talking about there in the fourth item um but there's a little essentially no single family houses are all electric I mean there's like you know a few uh yeah Jesse has one right but one of you maybe Dwayne has one I don't remember one of you has talked about having an electric house oh cold you're cold well there's a lot of electric houses all electric houses that were built in the 70s with technology like baseboard heating but that's not what you mean I think yeah well I mean it turns out oddly it turns out it is it's just genetic you need to upgrade this in any different way I just wanted to add to that um to to Laura's larger point I think you're right that there is an opportunity to sort of call that out more specifically in terms of the the system shift that's needed away from oil and gas um to Steve's point about sort of buildings that were built in the 70s that are already electrified I think one um one strategy that we do have in there already that does kind of try to get at this is the idea of a heat pump campaign similar to a solarized campaign that does a bulk buy program for air source heat pumps to transition some of those less efficient systems to more efficient systems so that is in there but I do really appreciate the sort of bigger picture take that you have pointed out there Laura yeah and I think that's a that makes a lot of sense as sort of an overarching sort of and that's kind of we sort of talked about sort of what's what were the sort of key the sort of overall purpose and key principles of the process and you know one of them is heavy decarbonization and one of them is improved quality of life and those go hand in hand I just wanted to say too that I see that last point too um about like a heat pump campaign is something very central to the cca effort you know I think that's going to be a part of that yeah these things are very very linked which is also I think one of the great strengths of we see it we're seeing it again and again as we start to dive deeper into the strategies that the strategies for four amours the strategies are all very linked and very supportive of each other which is useful it's it creates a kind of a an overall momentum which is pretty great I think it really nicely embodies the idea that came out of the task groups that there needs to be something in this plan for everyone but maybe that's just me get something for Jesse at least these these strategies sound really exciting and they they're getting down to the level of detail that I've been really looking for um they're they're still sort of teasers they're they're how can we learn more about them can you provide us with examples like Jesse mentioned Portland Oregon has uh an existing I'm sorry it's Portland Maine is what I meant to say okay I misspoke and I can send you a link to the ordinance well that might be in the climate action plan for Maine that we just got from you guys yeah well my suggestion is you take a look at the climate action plan for Maine because it um it is pretty detailed it has it's got sort of three qualities that I think you're going to find interesting and you know keep in mind that that was a big project uh but um and and it has a lot of stuff in it I don't think we're going to want to have as much stuff in in this situation and we're going to keep it focused because the things that are really going to make a difference and then we can really do I think are really kind of what we're talking about um but one of the qualities of that of that plan is that there's very specific detail about what each thing is um uh and so you can look and say okay well what they're talking about disclosure is what the heck is that this is described with its social ordinances and and how it fits into the current town you know remember it's Portland and South Portland so it's Portland has the disclosure thing and South Portland doesn't so you know talk about that difference um uh the second is that all of those actions were heavily worked through city staff and so the knowledge of what they're already doing and how they're doing is very baked into how that each one of those is talked about and that is well worth sort of keeping an eye on they're being very aggressive but they also it's very much a uh it it's it's not nobody is going to be surprised in the city uh they've all already bought into it um and then the third is that it's got pretty clear uh implementation partners laid out and um and it you know fits a lot of the sort of principles and and way that that Amherst is thinking but but it also is very clear about okay well it's going to take this it's going to take this it's going to take this and those are all useful ways to understand how to put together strategies that will be valuable as you move forward um and so I recommend you to sort of take and take take find the ones the parts you like because there's an awful lot of it um and find the parts you're interested in and it's I think is quite illustrative of how we might attack uh the specific strategies we're talking about yeah uh Ashwin um so first of all thank you so much for your incredibly detailed comments on all of our comments um your replies were really thorough um and the outline I think looks really good in a lot of ways right now I'm really excited to see the actual uh plan when it's when it's ready um just about main it looks like and this might be a small question but maybe it's a big question I haven't looked at the report very thoroughly it's very long but um so in main it looks like their commitments basically start in 2040 um and then they have other commitments like municipal commitments by 2040 and then community-wide commitments by 2050 is what it looks like I think that's correct yeah here we have 2030 commitments and I'm just wondering like qualitatively how does that 10-year difference affect what our plan is going to look like compared to this plan uh that's an interesting question I mean it does mean that that that was why I was sort of thinking about those particular items that I talked about earlier that are sort of fast off the mark things that that can have a appreciable difference and then set up further activity and I think that's sort of it's a much more urgent process here in in in Amherst that that you know your goals are much faster you're being much more aggressive um and yeah I mean keep in mind main uh you know suffered under an interesting uh administration that really put the k-bosh on that sort of thing up until quite recently um uh so they're kind of making up for lost time um but uh I think that's a big part of it and and also um I the the there's one other thing which we haven't really talked about here um and that is that um that because of the sort of large presence of the um the colleges and universities um they will play a part in this as well and uh and so well I actually think you could meet the commitments with the things we've outlined and maybe a couple more uh for both you know 2025 and and 2030 is going to be an interesting trick to get to you know uh to get zero but uh but the the institutions are really going to help and I think that also is kind of a game changer in the process yeah jessie I I wonder if if another category and I'd love it is to follow it Ashwin I think I do appreciate I like that we have our 2025 I think it's we were smart to do it oh if there was I can picture a category that's kind of involves people or the sort of what can I do and even and and being able because if if someone reads the plan and like well what can I do and if everyone had and maybe it's it's it's not I don't know if this is appealing to people but like if every single house in this town turned their thermostat down a little bit it would actually make a measurable difference a lot it's millions of square feet who make a big difference like that kind of thing was sort of like what really drives down carbon in our actions or some way to reach out to the sort of the person like me who who has a lot of agency who it has privilege how do I leverage my privilege to do something maybe that's great you know one of my favorite items in that thought is is gardening it's like you can you can change how you garden and it will have an effect let me show you how much but yes I think that's a great thought and and that's I think there's that yeah I'm just I think that's a great thought go ahead hi Jim yeah um it's it's great that you bring that up Jesse too because several other folks and you'll see this if you look through all of the comments sort of raised that idea of ongoing um sort of involvement and implementation of the plan ongoing outreach and engagement on the part of the ECAC with the community around the goals of the plan and and actions in the plan and you know there are several strategies mentioned in there that have to do with sort of creating outreach campaigns or behavior change campaigns and things like that but it's kind of interesting because maybe there's an opportunity within the plan to sort of tee up those campaigns you know I see we don't have to wait exactly um and and put items in like like the you know turning off the the lights um have a little call-out box that says you know you can you can start here and and then maybe when this campaign takes off you get more involved but um but yeah I think that's a great idea I want to second that um Jesse's idea with the caveat that we don't want to uh lay on too much guilt on people or make it feel like people have to change not the system and so in a big picture really the system needs to change but there are a lot of things that people can do and that list we want should be mindful of things that do cost money that some people might be able to implement and maybe save money in the long run but also things that are basically cost-free that um that someone with a low budget or without a garden space or that this or that could also participate in so a whole range of these I think would be really I stand to that I'd like to um just the the other side of that too I think we want to be careful to not to also not um suggest that while these actions are important um and make contributions that they're not done this is not uh this is this is not sufficient to get to 2025 or 2030 uh but it's stuff that people can do it know or or or low cost pretty much immediately but there's much more that will be coming forward yeah yeah and I would um just add to that quickly first that I mean this report is beautiful and it makes me want to go to Maine like right now um I'll tell Holly she put a lot of work into it um but to Ashwin's point I think that um and I know we have it in our outline it's kind of towards the bottom but I'd like us to be really um clear about the role policy needs to play and not just policy in our town but policy in the state um and and it would be really great if we almost had and maybe it's not for this report maybe this report just tease that up but like a list of policies that we should be Mindy and Joe should be supporting that would support us and and moving towards our goals because I think we've stated from the beginning that we can't we have these goals because this is what science tells us we need to to have but we can't meet them on our own and so just flagging that again yeah and I think that's really important and one of the things you'll see in that in that the Portland South Portland plan is that there's a very clear sort of delineation about things that are under the control of the cities things that are under control of the region like GP cogs some of the transportation stuff and then things that are under the control of the state and things that are under control of federal government um and some of the you know like things like the regi compact which is a bigger regional thing um uh and that even for things that are under control of the state or under control of the region there are actions for the city to take uh and which is exactly what you're talking about and I think that model of thinking about who are the implementation partners here is this really something the state has to do but we're going to help and push for it is it you know what how does this work and I think that's a key thing and in fact I would um one of the things that we have been thinking about is that that's that's actually a pretty key role that the ECAC as a whole could play is to start helping us think about who the implementation partners are for a lot of these actions as we go along uh you know which of those things really live at the city or at the town which of them live uh in you know the some regional entity uh and which of them live at the state level um and then how do we get there what is it that has to happen to get there because I think that's a key part of what has to be said I've sort of been thinking about those um identifying implementation partners as sort of who are the allies who are the amplifiers and who are the champions like who are who is going to support your initiative who's who's going to help you out and who's going to be leading the charge um also kind of who's the owner yes definitely um so I have to start it off for that yeah yeah I I think um I'll circle back for folks to continue to ask questions but I think that does your Jim your point does lead to the other piece of our discussion last week that I think we'd like to discuss to you today which is um you know clearly there's a lot of work to be done on the outline that you all are working on um are the you know writing the actual document right we actually have to remember it's an outline that's not the report yeah um so what is the most effective things that ecac can be doing over the next month or two or three as as we're sort of bringing these things together um to have a final a final plan you mentioned helping with implementation um partners and so you know I think that's one but what are some of the other things that would be helpful to come from from ecac during this these next few weeks well there are a couple of really specific things that I think would be really extremely valuable one of them I mentioned earlier which is sort of what are the assumptions around uh the cca and cca adoption that the that team is kind of working with I realize that's a touchy subject and you don't want to land on anything so it's not like we have to quote somebody and say well the cca committee says this like we don't have to do that but having some assumptions about how fast that's going to go what level it's going to happen at um would be really valuable and I presume you there is some of that there um and that would be really great uh to help us with and so that kind of thing there are a couple of things like that uh specifically around cca assumptions and if there are carbon uh assumptions that go with that um that would be great uh and then also uh some of the base uh information around uh um what the um like what the key policies are right now and how how are they actually implemented um like the net zero uh ordinance like okay what is actually going on there where is it at uh what some of the other things uh are actually happening that could help us to to tailor the the strategies directly to um uh to you know what's actually happening in amherst and so that people don't read it and say oh well that's dumb we're already doing that or you know we already decided not to do that or something like that which happens all the time uh lauren any other thoughts there um yeah maybe just building off of that thought about sort of local policies and laura's earlier comment about sort of the the desire to emphasize the state and federal level as well and sort of the cac's rule for advocacy there i think especially with the change in administration we're going to be seeing a lot of new things coming up in the next few months and and sort of keeping tabs on um potential future policies that can be pushed for that maybe aren't even on the table yet but especially because this group is um many people in this group are steeped in sort of the policy world um i think it'd be great to have you all on board keeping tabs on those types of things so that we can make sure that when the plan is published it's got the most cutting-edge stuff in it so this is kind of just a comment for the rest of my for my colleagues on the committee um when i look at this outline and look at ours sort of where we are in our work um and what our role in is is in making this plan um i feel like i would love to start working soon on communications about this plan organizing our community members to start pushing for its implementation locally and also around state policies that are going to be key for this um so i would love to just kind of put on the agenda probably for our next meeting kind of a step back strategy session about how we now take stock of this and do what i think we do a pretty good job of which is um that work of outreach and kind of political coalition building maybe we start to call for public comment about aspects of implementation once we have a better idea of what the priorities are and that kind of thing and i'm sure you all have all other awesome ideas about that too but i feel like that in my mind that is maybe what's next for us um so that's the first thing i'd say the second thing um about the report and this is kind of just a symbolic thing and you've already done this jim and lauren uh to some degree but in a lot of in a number of places um where there's sort of lists lists of subheadings i think it would be a nice symbolic gesture to always put the kind of justice oriented one first in order rather than third or fifth um you know for example uh in building codes we have um or you know that there's a number of examples where i'm seeing here like uh uh you know support tenant organizing and tenants rights you know it's it's fifth among equals maybe make it first among equals you know just as a symbolic thing um you know there's another place in renewable energy um energy democracy is third among five we'll maybe make it first among five instead so you know they're they're equal equal headings anyway so given kind of where our values have lying laying in this process i think it would be cool and sort of unusual to just put those things first so i think that's a great thought thanks ashwin absolutely these are in no particular order right now they're just kind of however they fell in the spreadsheet and so that was a very good i mean since since since they're in no particular order right and well then that makes it easy right but exactly i mean i think there's also there is an order of perception and we want that our perceptions to say something yeah yeah that's great definitely um sarah yes does portland have anything supplemental this to this 300 page chemist of a document i mean i it's beautiful but but that's not very accessible i mean the language is technical and there's just a lot so you know we've been floating ideas around what does ours look like yeah um what did what did that look like for them in terms of rollout i just have to laugh it's like oh my god when we got to the end as soon as like you're kidding it's renovations um so two things one that was the concept of this sort of initial there is a kind of a summary that has the six big moves that was sort of the idea there um but also i don't think the amherst plan wants to be the portland plan right portland plan is a very different animal uh it has some really great stuff in it and you can dive into a bunch of great detail and that's fantastic um but i think our our work here is about defining the subset of really important things that'll really have a big impact that will really have a really important both uh carbon impact and equity impact and it's like we start there and say okay it's a living thing we're going to do more later uh and try don't try and be super comprehensive and cover everything which that plan really kind of did uh and and we work hard again that plan was really written for the city and for the city departments and you know portland has a portland south portland have an interesting sort of sub constituency which hammers has some of but it's it's not quite the same but there's a sub constituency of folks in portland who are very technical very uh they want to see that you know these six things are in that plan and what and how they're spelled out and so if you don't do that you're going to hear a lot of grief and so people were very aware of that as well again we have a different goal here and our goal is much more about something that's actionable that people can get behind that ushman was just talking about it's like we can start rallying people it had speaks to people it's not uh a uh technical manual and i think that's key and yeah we'll probably have some appendices with a little whole bunch of technical stuff so that people who really want to get into it can get into it and that's fine but i don't think that's really where it's at just does that make sense to you is that feel like the way it needs to be yeah but sarah i think um sort of following up on that with with ashwin's point i think that's another place where the ecac can really start working and i know you've had specific interest in this for from the beginning so um i think this is something that we we should start to think about how do we communicate this with our community yeah and i think i had asked lauren and jim just so my brain could categorize in our outline kind of what a target page goal was knowing that it will you know expand or decrease as we go but that kind of helps me understand the depth that we're trying to dive into within each section um yeah and sarah i'm sorry we weren't able to attach page counts to the actions themselves yet we're just not there but hopefully the rest is helpful as a starting point yeah i guess i was just trying to think you're like rewinding five pages from the town manager or half a paragraph you know and kind of like waiting things out a little bit just to see where the meat of things were falling yeah yeah we really did struggle with it in portland about sort of that whole that really was that was the genesis of the six big moves and uh and i think the six big moves things actually kind of works um uh and it's sort of understandable and it covers more than six things it's sort of each one is slightly bigger but it's sort of understandable and um and you know that's that that's not a bad model in a situation where it's a complex scene i mean i you know we're doing some work in boston and cambridge and you know the amount of stuff you have to say is exorbitant uh but it's a complex world and there's a lot of different players and they all got something to say and you know it's like you got to you have to deal with it we're we've got a much better opportunity here and partially because and i think this is the genius of the ecac is that the scale of the town and the makeup of the town sort of physically the the sort of land use and makeup of the town these calls are reachable and you know it's not going to be easy it's not going to be painless but it's reachable whereas you know if you're talking about cambridge or boss and i was like those goals who knows if you won't even know if you reach him um so i think that's actually a real opportunity i'll say something i'm gonna say this i'm gonna make a comment out of school now you guys be good about sharing don't be telling saying this out of school uh and that is uh that i thought that was our opportunity in north hampton and that what north hampton did not and you know wane is a fabulous guy north hampton kind of didn't grab it uh and um i thought that was sort of unfortunate uh and i think that you guys are in a much better position to actually grab that opportunity and to do something to set yourselves up to take a bunch of really great actions that have real meaning that you know have real effect and that set the town on a really solid trajectory and i think wane has come around he's working hard to make it happen and you know there's he's got a vision in his head of how it's going to work um but it's not really a shared town vision at this point and it kind of needs to be so don't tell anybody i said that stefanie don't tell wane i said that i wouldn't shouldn't put it in the notes i have i can't see you but i have oh sorry i because i'm looking at the minutes um i uh am a little confused uh because i i see that these these actions look really good that you never posed um i'm a little confused partly because we didn't get all these documents until like an hour or so before this meeting and that you know doesn't really allow us to to um you know really digest what is in front of us but anyway um i feel like uh are it makes sense to i mean we wanted to focus on the actions uh what we're going to do uh to reduce the greenhouse gases by 25 by 2025 i we're also still addressing those resilience issues that we have expert advice about and um somehow or other this our plan needs to address that but we're not just stopping at 2025 and there are actions that we need to do to get us set up to do what we need to do after 2025 um so it's not just like the end at 2025 we we need to be it needs to be an evolving process so i'm hoping that whatever we're putting out you know is comprehensive and and touches those things like when you say we're not going this isn't a plan that does everything well i actually do see it as a plan that does everything in the long run so um and you know goes across all departments and that they should all be doing all these different things in the different sectors not not that has to be done by 2025 but that we're planning for so um somehow or other you know i'd like to hear about how that future planning is going to be addressed by either you or us um so i um i think that the outline's pretty clear about sort of the stages of you know sort of immediate action and as well as calling out stuff to get to 2025 and then long-term actions the list of long-term actions in the outline is probably not very well it's not super filled out at this point we're focusing more on shorter term actions to start with um uh but that's just you know where we've been at right now um you have thoughts about uh what i mean you have specific thoughts now about what needs to be in there we have you know plenty of other documentation as well um Darcy do you have any thoughts about like okay when you're thinking about sort of okay well longer term what are the real long-term things it's like what do you have in mind yeah i haven't i'm i'm assuming you're referring to one of the documents that is in the packet today but i i haven't looked at any of the documents in the packet today so and i can't look at them now because i'm writing the minute so i'm just i'm just responding to cool are discussing these action these six five or six actions that you're talking that you're focusing on yeah well and partially um uh we had been asked to be very clear about what the immediate actions and effect of those actions was so we're responding to that okay um but that doesn't mean we're not going to consider longer term stop absolutely yeah okay good great um so i'm looking at the time and i don't know we probably want to try to transition to the annual report um discussion sounds good so is there any other questions for lanane um at this juncture i think lauren how would you prefer to darcy's point about you know having a chance to look at the the outline if anybody does have any other comments after they've had a chance to digest it a bit more how would you prefer that those get sent to you um that's a good question i think given the experience last time i would prefer to um have things as consolidated as possible rather than um commented directly in the document um it was just too many things to to uh integrate in a streamlined way um so i would suggest focusing on any sort of bigger picture things that that aren't sitting right with you or if you you know you have overall comments um because i think you know the the key thing is that this is a in evolution presently so we can update and edit and change as we go so if there are things that need changing we can you know we can do that at any point um so maybe maybe the committee could put the outline into a google document and everyone just comment on one document um and that way i just have to look at the one document that would be really helpful okay that's that's helpful um what i what i think taking that feedback what i'm going to suggest is that if folks have general comments that they provide them if they have specific comments instead of putting them in the outline just write them note the item in the number so on item 3b i want to say this and we'll compile all that that work actually sorry yeah that works fine but also if folks want to just comment directly into one google document that's fine too okay um i think my first comment was assuming that everyone would be sending individual documents and then i had the thought that maybe one google document will just be easier um so yeah folks can comment directly on the items in in a google doc and that would be fine okay we'll figure it out but we won't yeah okay yeah we had an issue about using google docs um and so you know so okay it's a bit of a open meeting law yeah that's that's fine so yes that model that you're describing totally works yeah that's fine and and what we could do is if you sort of do it that way then i can consolidate all the comments based on the number so that when you get them you know they all like any comments that refer to item three are all together yeah versus each individual person's comments i can do that so we we should send those to you stefanie yeah so send them to me but make sure you have the items numbered be very specific about what you're referring to yep thanks much yeah just a process a process question so are we gonna are we providing another round of feedback on uh the on the outline and then we'll have another meeting to have another discussion about it and then hopefully we'll be finalized or are we i i kind i was kind of hoping a little further along than that but maybe yeah so yeah allow so we uh are we are moving i mean we're moving ahead with strategy development right it's like the outline is an ongoing process i don't think i would worry about really making a bunch of changes the outline at this point unless there's something that's really bugging it uh um uh it doesn't seem super valuable to have another round of a whole another meeting around around that we're gonna start you know we're gonna be into strategies pretty soon and it's like we're gonna want to talk about that um cool that's what i was hoping good i'm glad i said the right thing i i i will not be providing further comments on the outline i think it's fine and it will change a lot between now and the final version no doubt so that's fine but just to give y'all a good sense of where we're headed yeah um and on and on that point i do think it would be helpful not right now but as we move forward um when you are at points where you have something you want us to review whether it's chunks of text or pieces of it or to kind of give a heads up so we make sure we have enough time to do that for you on the timeline that's that supports your process um and that it's not just continue you know i'm assuming you don't want just continuous comments so um i think we'll look for that really be nice if we didn't have that yeah so let's look for that from you in terms of you know you guys identifying the right chunks for which you want us to review and us building that into our process i mean do we even need to have a space do we even need to put it on the table for us to give you feedback right now it sounds like you're you're at a moment where you have plenty to work with and uh i don't know like yeah it wasn't necessary it's more so an option yeah okay great i think folks that that want to i know that it came right before the meaning and it can be difficult for for folks to to review it so um just opening that up as an option but i i agree i think um to the extent where you're feeling like this discussion and what's written are leading us in the right direction um i think we should move forward i would i would just suggest to that people really read lauren did just an incredible job summarizing our comments and if you haven't read it i think it's worth reading just to get a sense of where what's important what other people are saying etc it's it's a it's a valuable document and should not float away yeah and and on that point jesse i do want to say it's one that i intend to keep coming back to as we move forward because there are comments that folks have made that we're not really ready to address yet but that we want to in the future and so this this is definitely um going to be something that we come back to yeah and i appreciate you doing that lauren being on the other side of having to collect comments and respond to them it's not fun but it certainly makes the process much easier sorry you had to make that document just yes it's you know a thing but it's actually pretty valuable so okay um so with that i think we will move on um lauren and jim welcome you're welcome to leave i think or you can i think i think we'll bail if you need anything uh else just holler great great to see y'all thank you both okay okay so just to recap um we're on a self-imposed deadline to um send a annual report to the town council of what we've been working on for the year um doesn't have to be fancy but i think it is helpful to just keep track of what's been going on both with ecac and with sustainability in general um so i will turn it over to andra actually she's leading this work i fully intended to have a draft to you um but i just been overwhelmed with stuff so um end of apology on we go um it would not bother me if we decided that we could extend our self-imposed deadline um and not have to rush this out before the years end but you know there there may be a budget deadline that um we need to work toward so um if so we'll do it uh ashwin what are the budget requirements oh you probably can't hear me yeah just what do we know the budget yeah darcy actually gave us that schedule he used us a little bit but yeah i did um the the council president said that um the next you know could conceivably come up at the december 21st meeting or the first meeting in january um is fine um the first meeting in january and the one after that is the 25th about the 25th january 4th january it's the december 21st january 4th and january 25th do we um imagine presenting this to the town council so that we're on their agenda it would suggest that it would be a good thing to do that yeah that's okay give me give me a deadline let's choose one of those meetings to try to get into ashwin and we so we our next meeting is on the 16th right so what if we have a draft to look at and discuss on the 16th and then we can could we be prepared to present on the 21st or is that too tight to we shoot for the 4th instead i'm guessing the 21st agenda is already pretty okay set right darcy if we go over a draft of our thing on the 16th uh when we need we can revise it again on the 30th and then shoot to present on the 4th or whatever they have space for yeah since we we did um state that we were going to present our annual report annually in december um probably wouldn't make that much of a problem if we did it on january 4th i i wouldn't really want to go to january 25th um okay that sounds good to me everyone good yeah i just as always i'll put in the bid for i don't see why this needs to be more than a page like it's a bulleted list it's concise i really i really believe that uh that it it's we're giving them an update i think i'd rather have them read everything and i know what that might take longer to do but that's just my if that makes it easier for you as well i think first what have we what have we accomplished what are we hoping you'll accomplish okay i was trying to be exhaustive so certainly makes it easier laura did you want to say something i was just going to say that um i think this plan sounds good i think the only potential hiccup is that i'm not sure if we're going to have a meeting on the 30th um i don't know what folks are thinking in terms of but i know for myself it's going to be hard for me to come just because the kids don't have school those two weeks um so so just throwing that out there maybe we play it by ear and see how again i to jesse's point related to jesse's point i don't think there's going to be much controversial in this in this plan so i think um we could probably review it and give feedback for next next time and and it'd be good to go for the for the fourth um you folks so let's maybe plan on your plan let's let's ask so i think that means right we need to i can email then and athena right and ask if we can get on the agenda for the fourth stephanie yeah um or i can reach out to them and do that laura that'd be great um and if we need to push it back we can but i think let's get on the agenda for the fourth and um shoot for spending um a good chunk of our meeting on the 16th looking at the draft um as well as i think to ashwin's suggestion earlier um start talking about um communication and outreach for the for the carp so um i think that we want to set the stage i don't think we just want to have bullets i think we want to make an argument for the need for a shift in how the um town thinks about everything and not all of that costs money but that that's a part of what um we see the carp moving the town towards so i want to formally disagree with myself and say i love that idea um andra or is a whoever knows the answer to this question um are we allowed to help you with this drafting andra like i'm can i work i i have some time in the next week i would be happy to to work on this too if that's helpful if andra worked on something and shared it with you you could get it back to me and i could like send it to the group you can't go back and forth necessarily because okay yeah okay cool so um so one thing that that i i'm sorry andra just to Stephanie's point could if andra assigned like sections like ashwin you write this paragraph and he does it is that okay yeah if you yeah if you assigned it to people and then you know they don't deliberate about it you can't deliberate about it exactly but you could just assign a section to somebody to write okay thanks okay um so i can't remember dartsy had already outlined it did you actually share the document or did we just move right into talking about the budget anybody remember um you had the draft last time right didn't we talk it was a google doc link oh okay so um i can try to pull it up hold on well i have it up actually it wasn't it was a word dark yeah so i just wanted to um give people um a view of this uh just in terms of the structure we are required to report on certain things according to our charge um and it's these five sections um so progress towards climate action goals will include our progress in planning measures taken uh will go into however much you know i mean that can just be the bulleted items and Stephanie will need to help with that got a start um and but that'll be some other things that we didn't have much to do with like dpw got a highly efficient heavy duty truck and fire department got an ambulance that can idle without using a lot of energy or something like that you know i don't know do we need that level of information can i i would just say that uh you know when we write these kinds of reports uh at least i'm used to doing it from the perspective of a nonprofit that's trying to justify its own existence by proving that it has done well with respect to indicators that's not what we're doing we can actually say that we have not done the town of Amherst not done well on these indicators and therefore you need to seriously fund these things you know that we can frame it in those terms instead so right i mean like one thing on the list is the use of the bike ride the ride share and i can only assume that it was like way low this year the students were gone yeah yeah but people are still using it and that's been something that's been noted is like because of covid actually some people are more comfortable using the bikes rather than taking the bus so it's been very interesting um so there's information like that i think that's important and also to Ashwin's point i mean i think you kind of want to do both you want to identify the things that have been done and then you want to talk about how we need to do even more like i don't i don't think you want to discount what's been done i just think you also want to say which is great but you know more needs to be done more emphasis needs to be focused on expanding EV infrastructure even more or providing alternative transportation options more yeah um so then three evaluation of effectiveness um we're not really in a position to do any evaluation we don't have any data so maybe next year we'll have some data on things that were done this year i don't know there's like no mechanism for collecting this kind of information like right stephanie how much yeah energy was saved it really by the truck that dpw got well no that's not totally true i mean you can look at fuel savings for the truck and dpw does keep records of the of the mile you know of the fuel use it's not like that's impossible to get i mean that's an easier thing yeah well we're not gonna do that this year because nothing's been in place long enough and it's such a weird year yeah um but it does make me wonder if we're gonna do it in the future and and how well i can tell you that doing my annual report for green communities this year energy use was certainly down you know but we know why so it was it was a very uh unique year so it doesn't like anything reported in this past year just doesn't feel particularly accurate right um well the green communities report could be um referred to for some detail yes stephanie that'd be appropriate is it normally sent to the town council no um not really i mean there are things that i could there are maybe some charts i have to look at it but there are some charts i could um develop that would be useful to have um i just need to look through it and sort of see what makes sense and what doesn't um to include and i can i can send those to you the the whole report it's just a an excel workbook and i in and of itself i'm not sure i've shared it with the town manager before um quite honestly i don't even know that i had done so this year yet i just haven't gotten around to it i've got a few things i need to update yeah um and i think to ashwin's point and i know join has a question i mean i think that's where we can say like we need we need that we need stuff to do these calculations we you know i mean um i also think we should mention that um you know we have i think we're probably one of the only town committees that has met as much as we have during coven so i think we should say that too yeah i was gonna say i think even giving an estimate of the hours include oh really okay that's right we have a we can just multiply the meetings times two hours and don't forget well don't forget your task group meetings there were 12 sessions so and i was certainly part of all of those so okay um can i just my sort of sense on this so far is that um i think this is our first year report um and i don't i think a lot of these these one through four at least are not that applicable they will be applicable we don't have a plan yet this year was based was was uh really focused on developing a plan and community engagement which i think we should talk about but i was gonna also and so i think the my sense is this report may be a little bit different because everything we've sort of mentioned so far we um all the work that stephanie's done um and so forth is somewhat business as usual um you would have been doing that most likely without ecac uh and so forth so i think to ashrin's point this is the opportunity to say we got a good start we're running we got a plan underway but there's a lot a lot of stuff we're gonna that that's gonna be you know coming forward um and and business as usual we won't get there with business as usual and business has to change remarkably um you know not in scary terms but um the one thing and i don't know if it's completely analogous but we're sort of running into this with the uh at the university as well because we have the the carbon plan is in its final sort of draft and we're presenting it now to the leadership of the campus which is not quite analogous but has some similarities and so we're really you know we want it we want to you know stress that this is an opportunity for um the town to be a leader first to to to um make it clear that this is not it's this is something that needs to be done there's a climate emergency um this this uh we don't really have a choices here we need we need to do this but we're also in a position to take leadership um but also we're sort of you know at the university there's we're also not trying to hide the fact that this is going to be a lot of effort and a lot of money um it's a little bit different for the town because it's not necessarily money from the town but it's money from the town's economy um but we're really trying to tout it as um and it realistically it's while it's not a um it's an investment as opposed to a cost um and basically we're we're you know at least at the university we're looking at a lot of capital investment which um comes at some uh you know brings a lot of capital investment up into the near term but there's substantial payback for the next hundred years of an infrastructure on campus that will um our estimate estimate in some very um early financial work is that by 2045 we sort of pay it back and then we got savings for you know uh decades after that for the university and I'm I'm thinking that you know I don't think we want to sugar coat the fact that this is not going to take some action uh which involves you know however we um change out all the heating systems of the homes and so forth you know it's not it's not a town budget but it's a amorous economy budget uh economy issue and how you know and that I think we should sort of set the stage of um that this is going to take a lot of good a lot of thinking but it's going to be an investment for the town to put it in a position to be in really good shape for the next 100 years is sort of how we're touting it for the for the university yeah can I also add that um I think you know I think when you talk to about what you've done over the past year the um the community engagement as part of the task group process was really key in that it really identified also the rental sector as a really important piece of this which would normally not be business as usual um you know we might not be focusing so much on that if it hadn't been for this process and the way in which we engaged people was really important and brought that to the forefront and I think that really needs to be called out because the town needs to understand that landlords property owners housing complexes really need to sort of step up because without them that's a huge piece of the goal right so yeah I mean that's that's where we could go into a lot of detail and I don't know if our presentation to the city council is necessarily the place for this but I kind of think it is um other municipalities that are serious about climate change are reorganizing their priority Seattle uh cut the Seattle police department by 18 last week that's about 40 million dollars in Seattle and of that money they put $132,000 into the office of sustainability and environment to restore their municipal Green New Deal advisor they put $100,000 into Seattle public utilities to do various upgrades they put $800,000 in to convert homes to electrokeeting from gas and oil they put $150,000 in for energy benchmarking to increase energy efficiency and commercial buildings right so this and there's there's more stuff that they did too so every every week and this is you'll find the same story in Austin Texas but we are seeing municipalities in this country put their money where their mouths are and actually shift their priorities in a meaningful way and change staffing in a meaningful way and I I really feel strongly that we um ought to be emphasizing these types of aspirational possibilities in our report and in our presentation to the council with with reference perhaps to what other municipalities have been doing along these lines so you know they can basically you know they can't tell us that uh another staff person for this type of work is impossible because that's that's absurd yeah I second the references it's really helpful to have those values and numbers yes so um so the um the funding needed that's where you know we'll put in the the mostly staffing you know our imagination for what the staffing could be I think we could even just hint to it being in in much more detail in the report but I think noting that you know this is going to be a part of the report this is going to be something we have to do um and that's what other communities are doing it would be helpful to preempt the the carp absolutely and I think I'll prepare um you know as um I don't know was uh Laura somebody mentioned I mean we could there could be some you know funding coming from the federal government the new administration opportunities for a town to apply for funding for sustained additional sustainability uh offices or work uh staff and we should sort of put that in not necessarily saying you know that it needs to come from the existing budget but that we will work with the town to put it put and look for opportunities like that though I'm not against Ashwin's idea of and importance of you know if this is a new priority for the town let's shift things around I think that might be you know otherwise you know we're going into detail so that's probably just as much as we need to say that um there is a possibility that um when Laura talks to um Lynn uh that she you know that she might say December 21st is better than January 4th um I'm just saying that that's a possibility because of whatever um so it probably would be good to at least be prepared for her saying that but I could reach out now I mean they should have a sense of that already and I could you know I can reach out tomorrow that's that's just an email yeah she she she did mention that December 21st would be okay so I I don't know if that means I don't know what it means so okay so Stephanie um if you can see that email and if there's any need for us to expedite let us let us know the one thing that I uh occurs to me is that at the January 4th meeting um I think we may be um elect re-electing the president again and I don't know whether there will I don't know well whether whether that'll be something very quick or not so anyway that that would that would probably be on the agenda for January 4th is uh some process type things including the election I'll throw out too I I thought it was really great when I think it was Laura and Andra presented to the town council um there was a bunch of us in the audience um so I think I just kind of pull ourselves are we available more or less neither of those dates and is is it Laura and Andra presenting this or Ashwin if you were had a voice in this would you be one of the presenters um I don't know but I'll just make a plug that we um we try to be there as much of us as possible agreed and I'd be happy to have different faces of the ECAC present if that works out for folks um good point Jesse so uh so Stephanie's gonna reach out to Len um and Athena we're gonna shoot for the 4th but update if it's something different Andra's gonna send out our draft and reach out to Ashwin and if anybody else if you have any other pieces of the of it that you I know you've already connected or connecting with Stephanie about some details but if there's other pieces that you think would be helpful to get help from please let folks know um and we'll plan on on our next meeting going over we're focusing on the on the on the report and with time available also start talking about communication and outreach for the carp and sort of I think just thinking about next year and and what our what our plans are um does that sound okay with everybody great um do we decide now for meeting on the 30th who has conflict on the 30th I know everybody's schedule is probably still up in the air but life doesn't change much yeah I was gonna say I usually take that week between our that time between Christmas and New Year's off yeah I mean given how much we've been working I think it'd be nice for us to take a day off time off but um it sounds like people would be able to join so let's keep that as tentative for now and we'll see how we get get on next time might be a working meeting yeah it could be a sub quorum working meeting for or something like that maybe it could be festive and we could have snacks okay great um well thank you I was in a really horrible meeting before I joined this call and it was a great call so thank you I'm on that note of like festiveness though like I mean if we are gonna like take it because I feel like we're sort of ending a phase of work with Linnae and right now and starting a new phase of our work I think it would be cool to do some kind of uh more lively dynamic reflective activity together to like think about what comes next for us at some point um that departs from some of the kind of more dry meeting activity structures that we've had so far or recently at least so I don't know if others are interested in that I can like think about what that might look like a little bit but I don't know I think that might be nice to do soon what if you did a mini retreat just on a whole separate day that's not a meeting day that is just kind of not formal and small groups and yeah I don't I mean we still I'd have to look into it because I don't know if we still run into the whole open meeting law issue in terms of doing breakout rooms I'm not sure if we can do that um but the council do breakout rooms in their retreat no yeah I don't I don't think you can andra um but but there might be a way at least to make it a sort of more informal way of um you know me maybe even doing like little polling or I don't know there's more interactive ways that you could put information up and share it and whiteboard together and you know it can it can be more than just the sort of standard format of discussing the plan it could be a little more interesting I'd be happy to work with folks on that we need to a slightly different technology to do it yeah well there's I mean I think it's a way to utilize the technology we have in a different way I think we have um access to things I'm pretty sure I you know part of it was Sean is on there so Sean I don't know if you can maybe jump on real quick um if you're available but I'm just wondering uh if we have access to whiteboards and things like that still I mean some of the tools and things were um disabled but that might actually I think whiteboards exist and I think there's other features that I mean they exist I'm just saying that we could utilize them I think there are things that we could utilize that we haven't before if I were Sean I would have my sound off so yeah well I think that's a great idea and Ashwin maybe if you want to think a little bit about how we do that I mean we may need tech we may not I don't know what you're thinking but um just a different my my sense is that just a different conversation than we've been having yeah yeah and I think I mean it sounds like as long as it doesn't involve breakout rooms we can kind of do stuff just um but yeah anyway I'll think about it we can circle back next yeah and if there are things Ashwin that you specifically are looking for or need just shoot me an email and I can always check in with IT and see if we can provide them cool we generally don't attract too many public public participants so we could probably you know do something not outlandish but uh but a little bit more fun and not running you know running to sort of being concerning town people that are wondering what we're doing okay great well I think with that I don't see anybody in the attendee room so I think we're we're we don't have any public great Stephanie no no more public there was one person but they left okay um we were too interesting for them um all right so thanks everybody and we will circle back in two weeks thank you thank you thanks everyone have a good night all right