 Good afternoon, everyone. I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to welcome you to this very important discussion on antimicrobial resistance. This is one of the key topics for us. For those of you I haven't met, my name is Shyam Bishain, and I head up the Center for Health and Health Care at the World Economic Forum. AMR is a key topic for us. Just recently, a few months ago, we launched a Global Future Council on AMR, which is co-chaired by Dame Sally Davis. She wanted to be here, but unfortunately, for some personal reasons, she couldn't be here, so she sends her regret. But this is a key area of focus for us, because we know what AMR is doing to us as human beings. Every year, about 1.3 million people are killed from AMR. I'm talking about direct impact of AMR. 1.3 million deaths is much higher than if you look at HIV, you look at TB, you look at malaria. I think it's the third biggest disease killer after heart attack stroke. So it's something that we need to take very seriously. People have been working on it, but we need more focus on this. We need more resources on this. And that's why we are here today. Our platform, World Economic Forum, as you know, is to bring public-private sector together, as well as academia, thought leaders, civil societies. And you will see that mix of panelists here. You'll hear much more and a lot more from our distinguished panelists here today. But I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to emphasize how important it is that we all work together on this. I said the number of 1.3 million people dying today. If we continue the way we are, it would be 10 million by 2050. 10 million lives lost that can be stopped, that can be prevented. Economic cost is also huge. According to some estimates, the economic cost of AMR by 2050 could be up to $100 trillion. It's trillion with a T. So this is a huge economic cost as well. It's the time we must do something about this. It's also good that United Nations General Assembly, there will be a high-level meeting on AMR this year. So this is good to know that it's being prioritized. Last week, I was in Rome meeting with the Health Minister. Why Rome? Why Italian Health Minister? Because they have the G7 presidency. And I was very pleased to see that out of the three priority areas for G7 that he mentioned, AMR was one of those. The other two are pandemic preparedness and digital health. So it is garnering a lot of focus, a lot of emphasis. He also told me that the G7 finance ministers are working to create incentives for AMR research. Main problem is that you don't have enough resources going on the R&D side. Because there is not enough push, there is not enough pull. There are grants, loans, and other things required. There are philanthropic organizations. I guess we see welcome trust here. We have Gates Foundation and others putting money into this. But more needs to be done in terms of push. And for pull, governments have to come in. You need to come up with some advanced market commitments. You need to incentivize smaller companies, biotech companies, even big pharma companies to put more resources behind R&D so that we can come up with some good drugs here. So, and as I said, you will hear much more from our distinguished panelists on this. So without further delay here, I know we have very limited time. I would like to hand over the discussion to our moderator on right honorable. I should say Helen Clark, ex-prime minister of New Zealand. And Helen, over to you. You will introduce the panelists and we'll take it from there. Thank you. Thank you, Shyam. And I must commend the forum on the marvellous name they gave the session. Perhaps you're all here because the title is Bad Bugs, No Drugs. And it's more catchy, isn't it, than AMR? That, of course, is not to, in any way, undermine the critical issue that we're dealing with of antimicrobial resistance. And as Shyam said, it's a huge health challenge. I think the lay public would probably be astonished to learn that it's rated now as the third leading cause of death. That makes it, obviously, prepare extremely serious to us. And the thought that the death toll could blow out to 10 million people a year by 2050 is not good. Now, of course, it affects everyone who needs access to effective antibiotics. But let me note, putting on a hat I have as chair of the Partnership for Maternal Newborn Child Health, that children are carrying a disproportionate burden of these deaths. And AMR has the potential to roll back gains we've made in children's health. There's also the particular exposure of women who are 27% more likely to receive an antibiotic prescription during their lifetime than men. And that relates particularly to the section of reproductive health needs that women have. So the time for action, I guess, was yesterday. But if we didn't act yesterday, we can act today. As Shyam indicated, there's quite a lot on the weft itself with the Global Future Council on the future of tackling AMR, which is proposing a grand bargain on how to deal with us. And then those major events, the second high-level meeting at the UN this September, and the opportunities around the G7 and elsewhere. So we're in the spotlight room to put a spotlight on AMR issues. And we're going to roll with our great panel here. We're going to start off with just a broad question to the panelists, or already been asked whether they can talk across each other. And I said, of course, in a civilized manner, befitting Davos. But we're going to have a quick fire round to start with, for asking people to have two minutes each. Flowing from this, that AMR is taking the global stage at the high-level meeting at the UN in September and other important stages. So given these important events coming up, how do our panelists envision the collaborative efforts of the range of sectors, human health, animal health, the environment, playing a pivotal role in addressing the challenges? And what key priorities should guide our actions going forward? I'm going to start immediately to my left with Stella Kiriakides, the EU Commissioner for Health and Food Safety over to you. Thank you so much, and good afternoon. It is indeed a great privilege to be part of this panel. And to be able to discuss a title which I remember when we were dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic, we often said at the time that we were also dealing with another silent pandemic being that of AMR. And as the EU, we've been committed to tackling AMR for now over 20 years through a one-health approach, which is something that you have mentioned. But I believe that firmly it's really time, and we're all beginning to realize it, that we need to turn this commitment into a reality. By taking specific steps, both at EU level and, of course, at global level, because it is a global problem. And I know that in my initial intervention of two minutes, I just want to touch on two aspects of what we have been working with as an EU. Since the pandemic, we have realized the importance of working for health at the EU level, of building a strong European health union. And we have seen with the pandemic how we are stronger together when we're working in health. So what we have done specifically for AMR is in June 2023, we had council adoption of recommendations and guidelines to address AMR. So asking of the member states to have specific targets to address both the issues of acrimicrobial consumption and to have targets with measurable goals that will allow us then to implement at EU level. And I can go into details of that. But at the same time, because we need to really address it by working at different levels, in the pharmaceutical reform that we put forward in April of last year, we put forward in something that was mentioned about the push and pull mechanisms. We have for the first time introduced the concept and the idea of having transferable exclusivity vouchers in order to address market failure. And this is in order to encourage the development of new antimicrobials. And at the same time, we're working to encourage, through our pharmaceutical reform, the prudent use of antimicrobials in terms of the misuse and the abuse. And because it was mentioned, and I will stop here, of what we know about how citizens perceive AMR, I was quite surprised when I saw in a Euro barometer that one in three European citizens have an antimicrobial prescribed to them almost every day. So this is where we are now. And this is what we need to address. And we need to deal with it because sometimes it's difficult to speak to the world about a concept of AMR and a title of bad that we have in our panel today is more catchy. But the reality is that AMR is on a daily basis impacting on patients' lives. Whether these are patients going through cancer, patients going through other diseases, this is the reality. And we need to all work together globally and horizontally to actually turn our commitment into a reality. So thank you. Thank you, Stella. Peter Sands, Executive Director of the Global Fund, please come in. Right, I'll try and make four quick points. First, we have a problem in the AMIs, a disastrous bit of branding. The public doesn't understand it and even within the global health community there's ambiguity as to whether it's just about antibiotics or is it all forms of resistance because every pathogen becomes resistant. Now, that ship may have sailed, but I think if we can come up with sharper terminology that makes it easier for people to understand what we're talking about, that's really important because we will have to get the public involved. The public likes antibiotics. Second, we have to acknowledge that the global community is really bad at dealing with creeping problems, as you say, a kind of silent pandemic. We're much better at having a blazing fire and then marshaling the fire engines. And this is the problem that by the time it becomes a blazing fire, it's gonna be really, really, really dangerous. So we need to use this high level meeting 24 to have a kind of step change in the way we're dealing with that. But that will require us to do something that we're not good at, which is dealing with creeping silent problems. Third, please, please, the global health community is brilliant at creating new silos. Can we avoid creating another new silo? Can we find ways of tackling AMR, using and leveraging connections to other things? And to give you one example, in fact, to compare TB deaths against MR deaths is a false comparison because a third of the MR deaths are MDR TB. And, but also if you think about some of the things, the control of prescribing and all that kind of stuff needs to be within the broader frame of prescription guidance. The infection prevention and control regimens are also incredibly important for a broader set of threats and dynamics. The disease surveillance, we need to understand the evolution of MR has to be within that broader frame. So it's not that we shouldn't be focused, but we should integrate it with other things. Last point, you talked about overuse. Overuse is a huge problem, both within animal health and within populations, within rich countries. I don't think we should forget either that for significant numbers of people in the world, getting access to antibiotics is a massive issue. And we still have problems of basic fundamental access to antibiotics. Done. Thank you, Peter. And we wait for your best branding experts to come up with a new term. We can't use bad bugs, but what could we use? Right, coming next to Aleksandra Agatowska, who's from a Polish company, which is PZU Life. Life. Yes, this is insurance company. Thank you for having me here. It's an honor for me and a nutshell because I agree with you and I won't repeat it because it's not about that. We know AMR becomes the leading cause of that globally. We know that efficacy of empirical therapies declines enormously. And we all know it, but this is for me the knowledge. On the second hand, it's not about not giving or prescribing antibiotics at all, as you said. It's about prescribing them wisely. And for me to do it wisely, we need higher awareness. And it's other thing to have knowledge on some kind of issues and other thing to be aware of this. And I see that in terms of my perspective from working with different clients as they are employers, actually, we have a lot of impact on a big group of people, their employees. And I believe that employers should play a major role here to educate people they have access to. And this education is for me a really important issue to have bigger awareness on the topic. Thank you. And last but not least, Severan Schwan, the chair of Roche. Thank you. Yeah, perhaps I can make three points, building of what I just heard. First of all, Peter, I really agree with you that it needs a holistic approach. And what we see in general with health care is that it's very fragmented. And it's certainly the case when it comes to infectious diseases and doing something about it. It's really along the whole patient journey, starting with prevention, diagnosis. Therapeutics are part of that. But the health care system overall, if you don't have a health care function and health care system in the first place, there's nothing you can do about that. So I fully agree it needs a holistic approach where we all work together. Now, more specifically in terms of pharmaceuticals, basically there hasn't been a major advance over the last 50 years. So if you look at what has come out in the pharmaceutical industry, you can say basically nothing for the last 50 years. There have been some incremental approaches, but no breakthrough really. And I'd say there is at least a perception. We can discuss with its reality that there is no sustainable business model for this industry. So most companies have literally left that segment of the market rush. My company is one of the very few companies who are still active in this field. And we have some potential early opportunities. But by and large, the investments of the pharmaceutical industry into this segment is minimal, marginal, if you look at the overall investments. And what I hear is, well, this is an intrinsic problem. There is just a problem, there is kind of, there cannot be a market. This is an example where the market doesn't work. That's what I hear from some people. And the argument is, because with antibiotics, if you develop them, you should reserve them so the number of patients who get them are very small. And therefore by definition, there's no market. And I think this is utter nonsense. The market is working. There's just no signals to the players in the market to make a sustainable business, right? And I give you a very good example, which I think is telling, and that is orphan drugs. I remember when I started to work in the industry, there was a big discussion about orphan drugs, very seldom genetic drugs, et cetera, rare diseases, where you have a couple of thousand patients, perhaps in the world, right? Now, with AMR, what we heard, it's the third biggest cause of death. So already it's much more people than we have with orphan diseases. And what happened with orphan diseases is that at some point, there was a change in the thinking in society overall and with regulators and policymakers and payers. And societies are willing to pay very high prices for orphan drugs. So there is a kind of out of solidarity. People say, well, if you are unfortunate enough to have a genetic disease, the society is prepared to pay a high amount of money. On top of it, there were incentives for intellectual property, right? So that you have a longer exclusivity before generics come in. And as a result of it, the orphan industry, orphan drugs industry, took off. And today we have many, many, many medicines. There are still many diseases where we don't have a medicine yet, but we have many, many diseases where we have companies who have made a real difference for those diseases. So what we need to incentivize the industry, there's no doubt for me, is not push incentives, in other words, R&D subsidies. No companies interested in this. That is very important in the public setting, for basic research, for academic institutions. But please, all the policymakers out there and here in the room and everybody, don't waste public money for R&D subsidies for private companies. Complete waste of money. Put it into the public sector, public institutions in basic research, because that is a timeframe which the private industry will not cover. So R&D subsidies are a nonsense. Forget about push incentives for the pharmaceutical industry. And I'd like to commend the European Commission because what you're doing now on a European level is you're looking at a pull incentive. So you create a market. And there are two ways how you can do it. One is that you have a sustainable pricing. And the second one is that you give incentives on intellectual property. And that is what is now at least conceptually moving forward on a European level. It's much more difficult in small countries, right? So here Europe and the US have a critical mass to do that. But beyond that, I would really call and out for providing real signals to this industry that it's worthwhile to invest. Otherwise it will just not happen. And it didn't happen over the last 50 years, let's face it. But it's not a market failure. Actually, what we have is a market who is listening to the signals who are not coming. Yes, as you were speaking, it struck me. It's hard to have a market failure when you have such a high level of use. So there's something else that's much more important than a market failure. So there's something else that's missing in the equation which isn't getting the innovation. And maybe we could drill in a little bit more on that. One sentence on that. So what you have is with antibiotics, today the market is what we call a generic market. So the original antibiotics, by the way, Rorsch has been one of those companies who developed original antibiotics. That business is over, right? So today you have generic antibiotics. And the generic antibiotics you get for cents, literally costs more than a chewing gum, literally, right? So it's down to pure cost. And of course, if payers kind of take that as a reference for a new innovative antibiotic, you can immediately see that it never, ever will make sense. If payers would look at this like an orphan drug, and I think it is eventually an orphan drug, even though we use so many antibiotics, at the end of the day, the number of patients who get these late-line antibiotics is actually a relatively small market. So if we would have somehow a change in the thinking and not always look at it as a mass market, which it isn't, then I think we would potentially change the dynamics substantially. Alexander, would you like to come in on that? I think that insurance companies may not pay for direct consequences, but indirect. Because we, of course, may do something within the product, within insurance products. And of course, it's about risk, because it's insurance, it's obvious. But I believe that the structure of traditional insurance products should be changed in a little bit, not only taking the risk, which is right over, right now, possible, but also to take into account some anticipation, not only risk, but behavior, and to prevent them. To have a product which are from the structure, also educative a little bit. I know that product pay-as-you-live is really hard to implement on the market because measuring is really hard. But I think that insurers are really strictly interested, or should be strictly interested in AMR issue. And yes, you are right. However, we are not working directly, maybe in Poland. I don't know about other markets. I think that this is completely different on the other market. But in Poland, we do not work directly with hospitals, et cetera, with doctors, et cetera. We have some counterpartners between us. However, as I said before, we actually pay for it as a consequence of AMR, and claims are getting higher and higher. Commissioners still are coming back to you. You told us a little bit about the strategy the EU's pursuing. But you've also been the one on the panel who's very much raised the one health issues. And my briefing tells me that 70% of antibiotic use is in the food chain and animal health, which really broadens what we're talking about. So really be interested to hear a little from you about how the EU is addressing this broad spectrum issue, if I could put it that way. Yes, I think that listening to all the other interventions as well makes us all understand how complicated this issue is, and that we really need to all the time be addressing it at different levels, and sometimes thinking out of the box. And this is what we have tried to do with the proposals we put forward in our pharmaceutical reform, as you have mentioned, in order to really incentivize the development of new antimicrobials. Now, in terms of the one health approach, this is the only way that I believe that we can move forward in tackling this problem. And in the council guidelines and recommendations that we have put forward and which went through council so have been accepted by member states, we have put forward specific targets. For example, decreasing by 50% the antibiotics that are used in farm animals and in aquaculture. So you need to really look at it in that horizontal way. But it is not many of the member states have their national plans for putting targets for the prudent use of antimicrobials. What we've come and we are trying to do is putting these targets at EU level, EU recommended targets, but then also having a way of evaluating our recommendation four years after its adoption. So you need to be working at different levels all the time and bringing the member states together so that they feel that they're all working towards a common goal. And if I may just one word on education. I think that this is really vital that we address this because if you ask, I think it was again looking at the Euro barometer that almost 40% of people believe that viruses can be treated by antibiotics. I think some of the numbers I personally found quite revealing that we can solve infections caused by viruses by using antibiotics. Possibly that's why one in three patients use at least one antimicrobial on a given day. So there are initiatives out there to raise awareness. We have a European Awareness Day on antibiotics every November. I think it's November 18th together with WHO. And this year it's dedicated towards working towards the EU 2030 AMR target. So it's a matter of bringing everything together all the time and being able to work horizontally. If I don't like using the term lessons learned from the pandemic, I feel that the pandemic has taught us a great deal. But it's time that we move on and actually apply the lot of what we have learned. But if we have learned anything is that we need to collaborate. We cannot work in silos. I agree so much with that. We need to look out and past ourselves. We need to look globally. And G7 and G20 are already addressing this. And this is a problem that concerns us all. It's not only about industry. It's not about policymakers. We all need to be on this together. We need to be open-minded and listen and try and move forward because I think that we cannot afford to wait. Peter, you raised the term the silent creeping pandemic. Have you got any thoughts about how to jolt us out of complacency on this one and move forward? Well, one thing is we could talk a lot more about drug-resistant TB because drug-resistant TB is seriously nasty. It's got a far higher fatality rate than COVID-19. About 600,000 people in the world at the moment get it. And only 40% of them are treated and the rest mainly die. And the only thing that saved us from it being worse is that it's not nearly as transmissible as COVID-19. But we all know that these things aren't immutable. They can change. And I think we do need, I'm afraid to say, we do need some aspects of the MR problem that focus people's minds. And I think MDR TB could be quite helpful in that. And it's something that we spend a lot of time on. We're basically the primary source of funding for diagnostics and treatment of MDR TB in the world. In terms of the solutions, there's a lot of blocking and tackling basic stuff that can be done as well as some of the harder stuff. There's some really hard problems about creating new antibiotics and things like this. But in much of the world, basic things around prescribing guidelines, control of antibiotic distribution, infection prevention and control in health facilities, waste management, these are. And we're the largest provider of grants for health systems in low and middle income countries. We've really stepped up how much we're doing on some of these core basic building blocks, because they underpin everything. They underpin the work we do on infectious diseases, but they underpin all the surgical procedures, everything else, maternal health. But at the moment, I'd say I'm conscious that we're scratching the surface. There's a huge amount to be done on all of this. And we need to raise, when you start talking about things like waste management, people's eyes glaze over. But actually, it's a really important part of this whole equation. Yes, recalling in the distant past, my time as a Minister of Health, prescribing guidelines were really important. And our pharmaceutical system, of course, had all the data. And the practices that were over prescribing, for example, on barbiturates, we'd get a friendly knock on the door to say, we're a little bit concerned about the level of sleeping pills that are coming out of here, or antidepressants, or whatever. So I think how we can ensure that this is built into health systems around the world is really important. Look, we have among us the Minister of Health in South Africa, the Honourable Joseph Fahla. Lovely to have you, Minister. You're a practitioner. You're trying to do this stuff. What would you like to say to the audience and our panel about how you in South Africa are addressing this range of issues? Please feel free to stand up and give us your views on that. Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much to the facilitator. And thank you very much to the panelists, indeed, very thought-provoking contributions. Well, we go through the difficulties as a government which must implement the provision of health services, but at the same time, must also regulate. So as the panelists have indicated, and I think you, Chairperson, we focus as a Minister of Health largely on the human consumption of antibiotics, how to regulate, how to monitor. And of course, we have to work with our counterparts in the agriculture area, in the environment side. We've made some progress on the clinical, human sort of monitoring surveillance. Not perfect, especially in our country where we also have a very strong private health care providers. So on the public health side, the clinical guidelines are there. We do try to monitor, not always easy. But then on the private side, you've got the primary health practitioners, your GPs, and also your private hospitals to get the data there in terms of the monitoring, the usage. Very difficult because they also, you know, they have very circumspect about providing information because they believe that if, you know, they compete against each other. So if they were to give us all the information about what is the practice in one group and this as the other, that would lay them, you know, sort of vulnerable. But as you have said, that's just the one aspect, the human consumption. And then you've got the animal side. Some bit of regulation there, very weak in our case. Fairly weak, there's a lot of the animal consumption which is over the counter, which farmers can be able to obtain, obtain without a veterinarian script. So those are the difficulty which you go through. But just listening to the panel here, and of course, I'm also shocked as a bit. 1.3 million deaths already, potentially going to 10 million. So what it says to me is that there's really a lot of agency, real agency, I mean, as across the world in terms of the world. I know this is a regular topic at the World Health Assembly, but in terms of how much member states, as member states, actually we have taken practical steps to keep, I think that's another thing. But I think at the national level, at regional levels, and also at world bodies, what it says to me. And of course, if you say that from the farmer's side, there is no incentive to really do a lot of further research to find new antibiotics. It means we are staring serious trouble in the face. So I think to me the message is agency, that as individual states, regional bodies, EU, in ourselves as the EU, and all other regions, but also at the world stage, we really need to make sure. And I'm happy that the UN will have a high level meeting on this. And I'm hoping that, hopefully, it will check us at the head of state level to pay a lot more attention to this. But to me, the message really is key message is agency. Thank you. And minister, I'm conscious that next year, South Africa, I think, has the presidency of the G20. And you have a health minister's stream. So it may be a time to move it into the G20 health minister's discussion as well. I mean, the economic implications we haven't talked a lot about, but they are huge. The figures are huge. So that would be really encouraging to have your support. Any quickfire questions from our audience or points? Yes, front row. Just introduce yourself quickly. My name is Ayman Damir. I'm a chairman of a health care company in Saudi Arabia, the Damir Group. Very interesting panels. I learned a lot today. But what I've seen, whether raising awareness or having prudent use of antibiotics or whether we prescribe wisely or whether there is enough research in the last 50 years coming up with new pandemics and does the prices from payers justify that. I think there's one thing that maybe we didn't come to. I believe if we could have early diagnostics, instant diagnostics. You know, we live in a tropical country, Saudi Arabia. The use of antibiotics naturally in a humid country, you give it to kids much more often. You're obliged to. For a while, it was the largest therapeutic class in Saudi. That's how big it was. So I think if we could have instant diagnostics where before you take the wrong antibiotic for the wrong reason, or you take it for killing a virus, as you said, or using the wrong antibiotic. I know they're all general, but there are microlights. There are different antibiotics, I think will help a lot the misuse especially in our country and the way we pop antibiotics. Thank you for that. Now, so some more hands up over here. Yes. Roche has it. Yep. Please. Hello. My name is Guilherme Rosso. I'm a WAF Global Shapers from Brazil and Head of Innovation of Little Prince Hospital, the largest children's hospital in the country. Helen Clark mentioned the impact on children. So I would love to hear from the panelists more inputs on the impact of AMR on children and minister. If possible, your perspectives on the challenges of AMR for the countries in the global south. Right, so we've got a couple of questions. We've got five minutes to go, and I'd like our panelists in their last minutes or so each to respond to the questions if you wish. Respond to any point you thought needed to be picked up on the way through. And perhaps just half a word on what is your call to action to ensure that we do really get something moving on AMR. Can I start with you, Severin? Yes. Again, from an industry point of view, I'd make the call for pull incentives, market incentives to incentivize the industry. But let me say a word on the first question, because I think the point you make is a really, really important one, building on what we heard from the commissioner that actually there is an educational issue that people don't even know that a virus cannot be treated by antibiotics. But beyond that, let's face it, in many countries in the world, and that includes the member states in Europe, it's the doctors who are prescribing the antibiotics. And they know it, right? And so one of the very practical suggestions I may make in this final call, really it would be so useful if there was an increase in diagnosis of infectious diseases. Now, if I can just reflect from a company point of view, we are also active in diagnosis. There are only two markets in the world where we have a diagnosis business for infectious diseases, and this is the United States and Japan. And that's it, right? So you can bet if the doctors would ask for a flu test to differentiate whether this is a cold flu, COVID, or really an bacterial infection. And these tests, they exist, right? We have now multiplex testing which can differentiate that. I mean, and this is really cheap diagnostics, right? This is really cheap. I mean, this pays off for you 100 times, I tell you, at least in the longer term. I think this alone would reduce the use of antibiotics in humans. It wouldn't resolve the issue in agriculture. But in humans, dramatically, there's just no doubt. And it would be easy to implement. It would be cheap, actually, and very effective to your point. We can do a lot on the basics here. This is, however, not a matter which can be regulated on a U level. That has to be regulated on the member state level, just to be also very clear. It's not your fault. I mean, it's so obvious. I don't take it personally. I mean, you just wonder. I mean, are these people sleeping or what's happening here, right? It's so obvious what you are saying. It's so obvious. And still, it is not happening. I know Dame Sally who couldn't make it for today. I know she pushes like hell for that in the UK. But in most countries, we don't even speak about it. It's so obvious. So obvious. So thank you for that. Thank you. Commissioner Stella, your last call. I don't take it personally. No, no, no, it's really. And again, congratulations to having that on a European level. A great deal, of course, has been said. And I just wanted to say that I think it's really important that we create the incentives, pull incentives to create new anti-bicrobials. And when I spoke of education, raising awareness, I very much also meant the health care providers. I think that they need to be part of this. And they're, in fact, part of what we have put forward in our pharmaceutical reform in terms of how we can educate them in very specific ways. But you asked for sort of a call to action. And my call to action for this would be to keep this topic of AMR, whether we find a more friendly way of addressing it. I don't know. I think you're absolutely right. At the top of the political agenda, whether this is the EU political agenda, G7, G20, in meetings and conferences, this topic has to be there. Because this is really, when we say the word silent pandemic, it's maybe silent in terms of it's creeping up on us. But it's very obviously there and impacting on people's lives. So that would be my call to action for us to use our voices in every single forum to keep this at the top of the political agenda. And as EU health commissioner, I would be willing to work in every single way out of silos to make sure that we tackle this. Peter, call to action. This is a global problem like climate change. And it's not going to work if half the world gets on board and the other half doesn't. And the reality is that for the poorer countries in the world, this is not their highest priority. And so there is going to be an equity and resourcing issue here. If we pretend that there isn't, it's not going to work. Because if you're, I mean, Minister, you have enough challenges on your plate. And South Africa is one of the richest countries in the continent. So I don't think we can dodge the resourcing issue. If we're serious about this, there has to be a funds flow to the poorer countries in the world to help them deal with it. Otherwise, we'll have a problem half solved. Alexander? Thank you. The last thing. I believe that we really have these kind of platforms to discuss and to have all of the people on the board, not excluding any kind of part of the world, as you said. And I believe that One Health Initiative for sure should be the platform to gather different counter partners. And also, I believe that a political agenda is for sure very important to have it in mind. However, in the other side, I also think that what is the cost to think about it costs. And for Poland case, for example, simple, only working part of polls without children. And I believe that costs of treatments on children are even higher. But costs for Poland on only working people is 10.3 billion zlotychpolskih gross of GDP. So I believe that costs are really, really enormous. And this kind of information may help us to make it easier to get it on agenda of politics. Well, great panel. And thank you. We had a full room for the discussion. It's been quick, far and short. But I think we all go away quite a lot better informed. And knowing the complexity of it as well, I think Peter put his finger on it, talking about, you know, we need a better narrative, really, because AMR resistance doesn't ring too many bells out there. And I thought your example, Peter, of the drug-resistant TB, that sort of sends shivers, doesn't it? You say, what about if many diseases had a drug resistance? Wouldn't that work? Yeah. That sort of brings it home. And I think we've got a champion and minister Joe for the G20, maybe, to pick this up. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.