 James McLaughlin joins me now. James, hello, good morning to you, James. Yes, Greg. How are you? Ah, I'm just not that great. I'm just... Yeah, I would say so. Time to take it day by day. Through this whole process, James, it was difficult from a local media covering something that's happening so far away in Australia. We've been contacted constantly by the public in support of both the McLaughlin and Kelly families, you know, people in your community, people in your county, in the region, conscious of the difficulty, the difficult time user going through as well. Yes, that's great, yes. Right, James, you're the father of Christopher McLaughlin. He is one of two men charged with the death of a 66-year-old man in Sydney, and those charges, unfortunately, following the victims' life support machine being switched off, were upgraded to murder. We'll talk about that in a moment, but tell us a little bit about Christopher and why he decided to go to Australia. Well, he left in May 18, and on the 20th of May, he was working here for two and a half years, and the forward emphasis on Malinhead, and he decided to weather himself in and to go a bit further, and talked about America, and talked about Australia, but eventually he decided on Australia, and how many friends Nathan, the two of them, went from the 20th, and he would always phone or every day, since he went out, onto that happened. He would always have contact with him, always, every day. Is this getting involved in something like this? And we'll talk about what you believe happened. Is this add a character for Christopher? Has he been in much trouble before? I mean, everyone gets into a bit of trouble, but has he been in anything like this before? He never, ever been in any trouble anywhere, even in the factory, or in the Fort Lempers and Malinhead. He never was on any, and no one at all, and never heard of it. You know, all of the other young people in Nathan, he would be type of a quite, type of a young, very type, quite and shy, you know. He wouldn't at all ever, they had a night out that night, and they were on their way home, and they come to their home with a rented house, and this man was breaking into the jeep. Their own jeep? Now this would be the jeep that... Yeah, that was Christopher, the jeep at the top. It was Christopher, and he was breaking into that, and they rolled and shouted, and of course, I don't really know for sure what it was, it was an iron bar, or it was a piece of conduit piping that he struck Nathan Koehle over the back door, and marked him, he's marked, and the police photographed his back, and then had taken on from that, you know. It was self-defense, in my opinion, self-defense. Whenever you're at your home and someone breaking into your jeep, and as far as the moment, I mean anything, and they didn't have a clue who the man was, and whether maybe it could have killed them, either. We haven't heard this yet, but what we're hearing at the moment, and we've had a couple of journalists on this programme, James, and I've sort of tried to lead them down that line, because I'm not there, and sort of asked, has any defence been offered yet, or are police... The police in their press releases seem to be very much going with, along the lines of that this was a person who was asleep in the car, and then was set upon, you know, unprovoked attack. That's very different to what you believe happened. That is not the case, because the top belonged to Christopher, and from what we've seen on the TV footage, you could see the police finding a fountain or the jeep, and that was definitely Christopher's jeep, and my opinion, self-defense. I mean, Nathan Cary has got mags from his bag, but he was stuck, and I mean, like... And my opinion, self-defense then. James, when did you hear about what had happened? Because you were saying you were getting the calls and the texts every day. There was constant contact then, they stopped. How did you come to hear then about the situation? Well, that, on the 29th, we, it was a Saturday, and we were in the house in the evening between five and six o'clock or around that time, sometime this car came to the street, and when I went to the door, it was nearly, nearly Kelly and Gerard. And of course, when I seen them, I realised there was something wrong, because they don't usually be in my state. So then Nellie came in and just told us that a bit of bad news that the boys were arrested and threatened, and they were a man seriously ill. But even at that point, you wouldn't have realised the seriousness of it. Well, I didn't realise. You didn't know if they could hit the jeep or what happened, but what we had to accord, and it was very serious, we didn't really know then what to think, you know. And we got no word other than that. The only other way we would have known it would be on the media, going up on the television, because nobody ever sent word other than that to us. Presumably all this coverage and the language that's being used and the pictures and stuff of Christopher, this is not the person you recognise at all. This must be really quite surreal for you. Definitely not, definitely not. I mean, like in the first one half, if he had it wasn't on, they'd bother that he wouldn't have got out there and stuff. You know, you have to, you know, he wouldn't have got out for Australia. How difficult is it with you being here, and this all happening literally on the other side of the world, that you can't, you know, physically be there with Christopher O'Rourke? Very, very difficult, because you can't get phone calls too, and when you get to, you're going for one person to learn another, and you actually can't get contact in them at all. The only contact is that they can get calling out, and that's very hard too, because the money has to be put in a card, and then put in and postage them. I hadn't worded now for him since last Thursday, and all I have only spoken from three times, and it's very, very short. How is he? What's he saying to you? Obviously not personal stuff, James, but what's he... I know, just he's, he sounds now really good on the thing, and just talking about being out in the prison, and talking about, and they may get worked with after a while or something to do in the prison, you know? Wow. And he's being treated all right. I mean, how's he getting on with other inmates? I don't know, I think he's... We don't know a lot about that, but he seems to be not for bad, you know, and with that, and I don't think it was good, because with the holidays and everything over there, and the short staffs and everything, you know, things were on a very good flow. But I think now it's better, but better. But it's very hard to get visits and and everything, you have to... For people that's over there, that once a friend has, it's very hard to get in, it takes time to organise your visits and to get in then. You believe, of course, this to be a case of self-defence. Oh, 100 per cent. Are you afraid, though, that even if that defence is put forward, that these are two Irish guys over in Australia, Australia might want to send a message that this stuff won't be tolerated, are you fearful that they might be made an example of? Well, you're always thinking maybe that way in times, but at the same time, you think that they'll get justice. I think I hope they will anyway, you know. And in terms of about them getting a defence, you know, and having the defence team there again, you're all the way over here. I don't know if you are able to or plan to travel over there, but what kind of, how are you handling sort of, you know, their defence over there? Is it a case of employing a legal team in Australia? Well, I think at the moment they're getting a private slurs to go over there, you know, because it will be much better to fight the case. And they're getting a man like that, a slurs to fight for them. I think they have to have a slurs to reach. They can't, one slurs doesn't represent the two of them. And what it's going to be very, very costly. And I don't know if they're going to fund tighter age money here than this funded in Ireland. And is it possible for you to get over there at any stage? I mean, we don't know how long this process will last. Even speaking to reporters over there, they don't know how quickly a case may become before the courts or how long that case would take. You know, I mean, I really feel for you and the family, James, because there's so many questions that we can't actually answer at this stage. You know, it must be very difficult. But what is your plans? Do you think you can make it to Australia or...? Not at the Monod anyway, but you wouldn't know later, you know, but I wouldn't know, but he would have an outlet that's going to go out there. OK. You know, when out, you know. Right, James. At the Monod, there's not a lot you can do. If you were there, you know, it would be closer to see when the case would be coming, you know. Stay there, James, because Nellie Kelly joins us also. Nellie, good morning to you. Good morning. Nellie, I know this is very, very difficult for you, and the last thing you ever expected to be doing, but I suppose there's another side of the story is you would see that the family's feel needs to get out there. Tell us about Nathan. I'll ask the same question to you that I asked James. Is there anything about what's happening in this whole situation that you recognise about Nathan, or is this completely at odds with what you know about your boy? Completely out of character, completely. He was such a laid-back, easy-going seller, and never was in trouble of any description, and anybody that he worked with, and anybody that sat in the man that he fished with for the last two years, has told us that he socialised with him, and he fished with him for two years, and his jobs here, whenever he gets back, he's such a laid-back, and he's, well, these nieces and nephews, he would just play the PlayStation, Xbox, was them, and they're only six and eight years of age, the nieces and nephews. That's so out of character, and Nathan was in contact with me, the whole family, from the 20th of May last year. And until that Friday, he wasn't active, that Friday evening, he wasn't active on Messenger. So, you knew something was up. So, when did you find out about the incident then, Ellie? On the Saturday morning, or maybe one or two o'clock, on the Saturday the 29th, I had bought two scramblers, some in Christopher, and I thought maybe they had an accident. My son, Jared Ryan, he says, why was I not in bed all night? I says, because Nathan's not active on Messenger. He says, would you not think they'd be bringing a suddenly police station? Maybe something happened among the scrambler. And when I gave Nathan's to the person, he said he was arrested for assault. Nathan, we've got references from the Tolnery nightclub and the bouncers in the county. After all the time that he was on the nightclubs, he never caused no trouble. And if there were trouble, unless he helped the bouncers to put the people out, it would not have been no bad on them. And what has he told you about what happened that night, Nellie? He said that this man was trying to break him to Christopher's youth, cheap. And he was huddled in the back and they told the man to go away and he'd come back again. So Nathan was with the man when the police arrived and the man was talking to them. There was no such thing as investigating. And as the case may be, that would have been all over the media as the man had a clutch and bruises all over his face. I just think there's more to this story, but we're 4,000. I think we're 100,000 miles away, 4,000 miles away. How are you coping with that aspect of it, Nellie? Because your son is so far away and I presume all you want to do is hold him and tell him everything will be okay, but... Yeah. Not coping. Not coping. Very bad. And it's got to the stage whereby you're not able to contact him directly. It's almost a case of having to hold a couple of phones together and try and communicate that way. Yeah. All night we were up last night and he was ringing for just a couple of seconds because of the noise in the background and only for his boss. I don't know what we would do. He's only working with the boss five months. I'm impressed over him suddenly. And this my old man is like another son to us because he's in conflict all the time and he can do everything in his power. He's doing everything in his power, but that's the only... And we fell at the mountain head. All right. Daugherty is in contact keeping us updated, but depending on the embassy, I just rang him this morning again to see can we not get a direct call. So we have Martin McDermott on it and we have Bernard McGinnis and Henryc McLaughlin trying to get help for us to see if we can get a direct call just to speak to Nathan. The whole family has devastated it. Have you heard how he's doing in prison through those calls Nellie? Is he faring up okay or? We're just keeping Nathan spirits up. We're keeping it. We're not. We just say to him, just Nathan, just keep your head up. Do anything your toes do. See you know rightly any mother or any father that sent us on away to... Let us on away to Australia. You know how they've been. I'm so fired from home and our family is such a close family. It's just ripped your heart out of your chest. I mean, listen, I don't think many people listening to this program could, you know, book flights, hop on a plane and head over to Australia. And even if you did, you don't know what access you would have to your son, Nellie. There's no access. You have to wait a week to get an appointment to go to see them. Or maybe two weeks. It's just there's no access to this program. It's the lack of information making it worse and that we don't know. I mean, we know when they may appear in court again, but we don't know how things progress in Australia, you know, what charges they'll actually eventually face in court, all that type of stuff is, I mean, even the bail process. Some people are saying that they were refused bail, but I don't think they applied for it. It must be very frustrating not knowing what to do or how to help. You know, we'll say, well, look, apply for bail, don't apply for bail, what to do, what not to do. Is that difficult? Yeah, very difficult. Very difficult. We just don't, we're just getting no answers and people's coming in and being kind and saying, you know, whatever, go over, it'll go over. But you just can't focus and get nothing. We're trying to love them suddenly, time. And we're up all night and then try to get up at the sleeper of the day. Everybody in the house is on anti-degresses, try to keep them calm. Just, it's your worst nightmare. It's just like a death and you don't have the help from here to show. And that's gone on now for maybe three weeks on Saturday and still no real contact on this one. And I mean, it's difficult because, and I'm not in any way trying to make it worse now, but I'm trying, I know, I'm trying to put myself in your position. There's no end in sight. In other words, you've got through these two or three weeks, but it's not like you can say right by this data, by that data, we'll know it's open-ended and that must be incredibly, incredibly difficult for you and the rest of the family. Oh my God, and only for caring, avoidance, making contact, disposable, crime. We have to thank all these people that's helping, trying to help and trying to be on the position, but you need to be on those shoes. And just, it's awful. Awful. I just couldn't explain it to you because when you sleep, when you go to bed, and close your eyes, it's on your mind when you get up in the morning, it's on your mind. And we don't have time to, once the grandchildren we don't have time with nothing, our mind's just focused on this one, because it's out of character completely, completely. Okay, now, let us in, thank you. Thank you. All right, Nellie Kelly there. James, I mean, obviously, the coverage is, it would be saying one thing that this was a person sleeping in a jeep that he was set upon in an unprovoked attack. The defense, it seems, will be along the lines of the fact that they disturbed him interfering with this vehicle. Whichever way this has happened, a life has been lost, and there have to be some level of responsibility. I mean, you considering that, James, that even if there is a defense of self-defense that a life has lost, been lost, and both Christopher and Nathan probably are looking at prison time one way or the other in Australia? Yes, you have to accept that. But the other thing is, they were at their home and a man was breaking into the jeep and they didn't know what would be the outcome, like, you know, in the spot of the moment. No. I have to look at it from that point of view. They were at their home and a man was there breaking into the jeep. So, I mean, surely to God, they have to be self-defense. Well, I mean, I know one of the frustrations for your families, the families and the community is that it's sort of like one side of the story is coming out here. And I know that none of you want to speak to the press, but it's to get what you would see the other side of the story out there. At what stage, you know, will it be at a next court appearance that, you know, an argument of self-defense or the explanation of some mitigating factors will be put before the court because we haven't heard that yet, you know, from any defense solicitors. There's been no real sort of answer to the charges, if that makes sense, James. Like, when do you expect that a defense will start to be being put forward? Well, you would expect that what happened now and they said there the 6th of March, but you never know before that, maybe it could be put back going. But you would expect that that the solicitor have got some information in from the other side, you know. I also want to say there were serious condolence to the deceased man and his family and the whole family's here. You know. Sorry that it happened, but... Has there been any contact with Paul's family? No. No. No, no. But you'd welcome that, would you? Oh, yes, yes. Okay. Anything else you want to add, James? No, not really. In that, just hope that the outcome was good. And I'm sure the situation that Nellie described in her home of, you know, everyone thought of this as front and foremost in the mines. I'm sure it's the same in the McLaughlin family. All right. Yep. Hi, I'm thanking everybody there for their support, everybody's support, you know, especially them people and suddenly the Phillipam Galway and the young Phillipam Marlon Head. Yeah, Nellie mentioned those. The boss man and Doherty, I think, the young Doherty from the firm. Okay. Without them, it would be a lot worse for us. We would have no information. You know, they're on, they're on the ground there and they're doing their very best. Yeah. Listen, I know it can be, it can be very difficult, you know, reading and looking in the media, but it's until such time as the other side of it sort of starts being put forward that I'm sure the coverage will start feeling a bit more balanced, James. But listen, I appreciate it. I'm, people are texting in left, right and centre. They're very sympathetic to what the McLaughlin and Kelly families are going through their thoughts very much with you because, you know, what we, we don't want to hold our children back. And I'm sure when he said, look, I'm going to Australia, yous were like, well, I wish you'd stay closer to home, but then you don't want to sort of stop him experiencing life. And you never thought you'd end up here. Not when there's 24. I mean, you don't like to see any of them going, but on the end, if it's the better themselves, you don't like to stop in the middle. So, you know, but you never think that's so ahead. Okay. James, thank you for, for speaking to us this morning. Thank you very much. Okay. And pass my best wishes to your wife and also Nellie Kelly. Nellie Kelly, the mother of Nathan Kelly, James McLaughlin, the father of Christopher McLaughlin, both men charged with murder following the death of a 66 year old man in Sydney. And of course, you know, what we've heard so far is the charges that they're facing and they make for very grim reading, but the families, and I know the community too, because even when we were speaking about this before people were texting and saying, look, you don't know the full story. You're not given the full story, but it's only when we get exposed to it that we can give people an opportunity to hear that. So I appreciate Nellie and James coming on the program and doing that with us.