 and we repurpose it later. Hey friends, this is Dana Stephanie Burke. Divine, you're watching Devontimacy radio behind the scenes. Very excited about our guest, Charlie McKinney today. So before we jump into that, I wanted to tell you about a few things going on. Actually, you know what? Well, we've got two, three minutes and we'll start the show. Can I tell them about a really great Christmas idea? Yes, go ahead. Because we've got folks that are listening right now and I want to tell you that if you're staring at your Christmas list and you figured out that, you know, there's nothing really that my spouse needs. We're, you know, God be praised. We're blessed. We're doing okay. But what would bless their heart? What would change kind of everything for us if we really paid attention to it? And maybe that area is the area of your marriage and the intimacy of your marriage. And you know that maybe things are okay or maybe things are aching. Maybe things are great. Wherever they are in your relationship, spending time in your marriage is a great thing. So I want to let you know, there's an opportunity for you to do something that when you put it under the Christmas tree will light up your spouse in a big way. Especially your wife, especially your wife. Like big points, like enough inventory for the whole year. Right, like maybe years. Right. So anyway, we are holding a divine intimacy in marriage retreat. Yours truly, Dan and I are hosting it and providing it and doing the formation for it out of blood, sweat and tears. Oh Lord. So anyway, it's gonna be held the weekend of February 13th. So it falls over Valentine's Day. So it's a twofer. You get Christmas in Valentine's Day. This thing is gonna stay. Gift. And so anyway, it's being held at the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament in Hainesville, Alabama. So go out to spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. Check out all the details. All you have to do is buy your seats, arrange for the plans, print it out, put a ribbon around it. You are done for Christmas and Valentine's Day and your spouse will be delighted. Are you listening, Charlie? I'm hearing. Yes. It's an awesome time. It's a beautiful venue. It's incredible. We have great food, by the way. Shrine of the most blessed sacrament. No styrofoam containers of food. We actually serve you really hot food. We have people who come in and- And it's no goof. Like for the guys, there's no- We don't make you cry or whatever. No, and we have developed so many beautiful friendships through this part of our ministry in particular. It's just huge and we've seen so much fruit from it. So please come join us for that spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. I'm done. All right, I need Charlie's help real quick. Charlie, can you say something smart again? Testing. One, two, three. Keep going. Just keep going. Oh, you need me to keep talking longer. How's this? I'm having issues with my headset here and I'm just trying to get it to where I can hear you. More words? Is there anything I can do on my end? No, I hear you great. No, keep going. Yes, a big donation turn. No, he's already. Keep going. How am I doing now? I love that green shirt. Looks great on you. Thank you. Say some more. Okay, I think we're good. We're good. We got it. My beard is maving, I know. The evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a manifestation of beard if you didn't, I think you knew that. Okay, we're gonna start the show. And, oh, one last thing before we start the show. Tonight, November 23rd, 7 p.m. central. Oh, come let us adore him webinar with me, Stephanie, Father John Burns. If you're sick of having, I don't know, crummy advent seasons where you just lament at how you slipped into all the secularism, you never really got engaged, you didn't get the spiritual benefits, we have the answer. You don't have to be a victim. In fact, if you are, it's your fault. And, but we can help. So, tonight, it'll be awesome. Father Burns is an amazing priest. Yeah, same place that you would look for the marriage retreat, spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. And we'll hope you join us tonight and you'll be deeply blessed. It'll, when you come, it will not be the normal sort of light fair. I mean, we don't do light fair, but sort of Catholic light, it's gonna be Catholic deep. And we're gonna set you up for a great advent and beyond. You'll have a great year if you follow some of the things that we're gonna share with you. So, spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. You're ready to go, start to show, you're gonna be introducing Charlie. Okay. On your market set, go. On your market set, go! This is Dan and Stephanie Burke. Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest. Your hermitage of the heart. Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw on the wisdom and strength of the saints and the great riches of the Catholic church to help us to get to heaven, but also to live in joy and peace in the midst of the storm in this life, which is impossible. And it's raging. You've missed it, which is impossible. It is not impossible. Everything is possible in Christ Jesus. We can do all things in Christ Jesus. Not only that. I mean, it's not only not impossible, but if you think it's impossible, you really have, you're missing out, because the Lord has provided everything we need. I mean, you know, St. Paul and Philippians wrote, as he was in jail, as he had no rights, as he was heading toward his death, he wrote that we could have a peace that passes all understanding. Right? Yeah, that surpasses. Surpasses, it transcends. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it always reminds me of my heart aches when I see people that are languishing and they haven't found him. They haven't drank of this life-giving water that he's offering them. And it always, like, there's a story, I don't know, you've told me about it, but the visual always comes back of someone who is traversing through the desert and they're walking and there's this dry path, they're thirsting, they're dying of thirst. And what they can't see is that right over to the ridge, hidden from them to the right, is this life-giving water. Yeah, aquifer. It's an aquifer, pure water. It's pouring, but they can't see it because of their distress, their pain, their ache, and they don't know where to look. They don't know how to look. And sometimes just some of the crummy stuff that's going on in the church, right? But you don't have to be victim to that. No, and you just, if you will take a step towards the Lord, he will draw near to you. He will rush towards you. If you will say, Lord, I don't get this, I don't understand, like, I've done it. That was the turning point in my life. I turned to the Lord and I said, I've been taught that you're there. Take over my life and I'll do whatever you ask. And he's real. Yeah, amen. And he will come and he will change your life. Yeah, amen. Okay, so we're gonna introduce a guy here. I'm gonna just tell you before she, a dude, before she introduces him, I wanted to say this about this guy, okay? So you all know, we have the community of Apostle Evia and the Avalanche. We all know that we believe in that, that it is the most important work in the church. I mean, forming priests and all of that. I mean, it's just amazing work. Laiyadee. Okay, so there's another institution that is a very close second to all that we're doing. Meaning, outside of us, they're number one, outside of our own apostle. And I don't even think, you know, we don't compete. I'm just saying, work my heart, outside of what we're doing, which is the fusion of our own hearts in terms of our own calling. These guys are the most substantive, effective, powerful, helpful, pure, orthodox, well-run, heart of the thing is awesome organization on in the known universe. I was gonna say the planet, but I think it's probably bigger than that. So I want you to tell folks who this person is that runs this organization and what we're talking about, why we believe in him so much. That's why we're talking about, because I want everybody to know about these guys. Yeah, this dude in the sky is also a dear friend. Yes. Yes. So his name is Carly McKinney and he has served as publisher of Sophia into Institute Press for nine years. Publisher or president? He is, it says publisher. Okay, well he's- Are you a publisher or president, Charlie? He's also the grandpa, I think. Well, I'm both. He's being humble. Okay, so president and publisher of Sophia Institute Press for nine years. In 2013, Charlie founded Sophia Institute for Teacher's Amazing Materials, by the way. I used it when I was a principal of a Catholic school. Fantastic. With the mission of forming Catholic teachers through high quality training and curriculum, resources that lead students to grow in holiness. It's very true. That is not- Because you're a former Catholic. I am and the materials are fantastic. Charlie is also publisher of three popular Catholic commentary websites, Catholic Exchange, Crisis Magazine, and One Peter Five, as well as Benedictus, which is a monthly companion to the traditional Latin mass, which is beautiful. It is awesome. It's new this year. Charlie also serves on the board of the Avala Foundation and American Principles Project and the New Hampshire-based Family Policy Institute, Cornerstone Policy Research. Charlie lives in Amherst, New Hampshire, with his wife, Carolyn, and their five beautiful children. Yeah, welcome to the show, Charlie. Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Stephanie. Just so I don't get in trouble, I want to be really clear about something. So they're different apostles in the church. They're awesome, right? We all have our own specific focus. Avala Institute, specific spiritual formation. You guys do some of that, publishing, that sort of thing. EWTN, I can't leave out, because EWTN gets criticized by a lot of new media folks, but the fact is nobody on the planet is reaching more Christians with Orthodox Catholic teaching than EWTN. And if you hear people criticizing EWTN, it should raise an eyebrow for you. No institution is perfect, but nobody is serving up more authentic Catholic teaching than EWTN, and that is a fact. That is not my opinion, but outside of that, Charlie McKinney and publishing is killing it. So, Charlie, we're grateful to have you on the show, and I want to talk to you about Catholic publishing in general, but I want to focus right now, if we could, on the Catholic Readers Bible. What do you think? Yeah, it's a great book. It is. So... Yeah, I think it might, you know, one of the best books ever, and it might even be inspired. Right, God wrote it. Yeah, pretty good book. You know, we actually asked Jesus if he would be on. He said, ah, you know, one day I'll try it, because Charlie's in charge of this. I gave Charlie this project. But so, Charlie, I want to talk about the Catholic Readers Bible. I just want to say something about it that I think you can relate to. And so, we're both converts. Actually, we've both started in the same place. Southern Baptist Church, interesting coincidence. But, you know, I remember the days when I first woke up to Jesus, right? And really converted. And it was dramatic for me because the background that came out of was pretty bad. But I remember opening the Bible and always having consolation when I read it. And always being blessed by that encounter and just loving it and studying it and memorizing it. So, the chosen took me back to that beginning in terms of movie format or whatever. This Bible that you've produced, and we'll explain to people why it's so unique. Did that for me, has done that for me in terms of touching back a little bit at that first moment when I began to explore scripture. And I'll tell you why. So, the unique thing about this Bible is that it doesn't have all of the chapter and verse markings in it. So, it doesn't have, you know, Ephesians, isn't Ephesians 1 verse, you know, Ephesians 1, 2, Ephesians 1, 3, Ephesians 1, 4. It's as it was originally formatted, but of course translated to English because there were none of those marks in the Bible, right? When Charlie, when it was first, when each of the books were written. Yeah, that's right. Well, we, you know, there are multiple ways that one can approach scripture. Obviously, Lectio Divina is one where you're studying it intensely and use it to pray. Another is studying it as scripture to understand the meaning behind it using a study Bible. But what had never been produced is a Catholic Readers Bible, which is kind of where you step back and from a 30,000 foot view, you read it like you would read a novel in a couple of sittings. You read the whole scripture. And when you read it that way, I mean, one, you realize just how quickly you could read, say, the Gospel of Matthew. I mean, you could get through it in a sitting or maybe two sittings. And you see the story unfold in, you know, as you said, as it was originally written. All the chapters and verses came later to help break it up and make it as a better reference. And so we use the Dewey Reams or the Chalener Reams a version of this because we wanted a literal translation that enabled people to, you know, encounter scripture in, you know, in its purest form from the beginning. I wouldn't use this for Lectio Divina, but I certainly think it's very valuable for, you know, getting a 30,000 foot view of the whole without, you know, because the chapters, to some degree or another, are, you know, it's breaking it up in equal forms, but that doesn't mean that the teaching stops at that last verse in the chapter. And then there's a new teaching that picks up in the next chapter. And so sometimes you can lose the flow or lose the sort of the comprehensiveness of the teaching when it's done like that. So that's why we put this together because this had never been done. And a couple of Protestants have put it together in Protestant translations of scripture. And so, you know, it's people seem to really love it. I love it. And I'm glad to hear you like it too. Yeah, so this morning when I was reading, so I like to read the daily readings of the Mass. And then it isn't that you don't have the ability to find the verse because you have small notations at the top of every page. So like I'm looking at the Gospel of John page 255 at the very top, though it doesn't have the annotations on the side, it has John 16, 3 through 16, 18. So you can find those things and I read it. But the thing I love about it the most, you've already said, but I think it's worth kind of focusing on a little more. When the epistles were written, so these are letters from various leaders of the church. Of course, the First Pope Peter wrote an epistle, James wrote an epistle, St. Paul wrote epistles. These were letters, typically two churches. And then what would happen is, as the churches gathered, those letters would be read because not everybody's literate, but those letters would be read and they wouldn't have any verses in it. And in fact, it wasn't until the 16th century my memory serves me that that was added to scripture and it was done in the East and the West and then it sort of fell into this accepted pattern that we have today. But so for about 1200 years in the church, it was like this Bible that you've reproduced. To those who could have Bibles and read them, they're very expensive back then because the printing press hadn't been invented. But so when I read it, I like the purity of no notes and just reading it like they read it 2000 years ago. The pastor might have read it 2000 years ago. Right, yeah, and because it's the Dewey Reems, it is a direct translation from the Latin Vulgate. And thus it is, there's no dynamic equivalency that's been incorporated into it, which is sort of the modern mode of interpreting scripture or translating scripture. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but, and I read translations that are dynamic equivalency, but I think what happens is the translator is then incorporating in some of their own interpretations of what scripture says versus the literal translation, which is simply translating it word for word and maybe every line doesn't make as much sense, but you kind of let the chips fall where they may. And that I think is my preferred method and that's why we chose the Dewey Reems to be the version of this, so you can get as direct to the original scripture as possible. Awesome, awesome. So when we get back, we're gonna talk more to Charlie McKinney of Sophia Institute Press about their new publication of the Catholic Readers Bible. And when we get back, we wanna find out what effect has this had on the readers. So we'll be right back. Did you wanna do any commercials in the middle? Okay, yeah. So before we jump back into the show, don't forget for those who've joined us after the beginning of the show, we have webinar tonight, how to have a better advent, come let us adore him with Father John Burns, 7 p.m central spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. If you wanna rock your world in terms of going deeper spiritually, the Abel Institute's gonna do it for you. Two new courses, well, two courses that we've had for a while, but we are offering again, introduction to St. Elizabeth of the Trinity, who's a remarkable saint, just recently canonized, really up there. I think she should be a doctor at the church and Julie Ensler's gonna be teaching that and starts January 4th, so abel-institute.org. And then unleashing the power of intercessory prayer. There's no time in the church where we need to be praying more than this time. And Dr. Joseph Holcraft has written a book published by Sophia Press, no surprise, on intercessory prayer, we'll be teaching it. He is probably one of the most beloved professors at the Abel Institute. He runs our high calling program. Super great. Also begins in January. These are also great gift ideas. You can give classes to someone you know who wants to go deeper. So let's jump back into the show. But don't forget about joining us tonight. That's gonna really help you and your advent on your markets echo. This is Dana Stephanie Burke. Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio. And we're here with a good friend and really the head of like, an amazing organization that is incomparable and it's goodness inside and out and that's Sophia Institute Press. And we're talking with him today about the Catholic Readers Bible. You had a question for him. Right, right. So when we left before the break we were talking about the translation of it from the Due Reim, which is an amazing, beautiful, literal translation from the Latin Vulgate and how there's no numbers or notations so that it's a smooth reading as if it were a couple of thousand years ago. So what have you heard? What's the feedback you're getting from your readers of this? But what's it doing for them? Yeah, I mean, obviously they love it. I would say what we hear more often than anything is that they're able to kind of see scripture as a whole for the first time, right? Because you go into mass and you hear, this story of Jesus is miracle or you hear this parable and over the course of your life you get kind of, you're picking up scripture in different parts of it. And then when you read it, the Readers Bible, which encourages sort of reading it at large chunks at a time what they see is the whole narrative at once and that they've never really understood the order and the impact that that's had on, kind of piecing all the stuff that's in their head together. And so I would say that's the biggest feedback that we have. And the font size is comparable to what you would see in a normal book. It's not Bible font size. So it's easy to read, it's easy on the eye and it's very comfortable to put in your bag and take around on a trip or wherever you go. So it's hard bound. So it'll last a long time. And so the feedback has been phenomenal because a lot of people had never even heard of a Readers Bible much less ever owned or read one. You know, it's funny though, it's very Catholic, right? I mean, most Catholics don't know chapter and verse like you and I learned as Protestants, which was a blessing to both of us. But most Catholics just have a general sense of who are devout have a general sense of what's where and what's true and what's not. This kind of, I don't know, feels very like a really Catholic idea. Yeah, well, I mean, it's old. It's a way it used to be. So it's everything old in Christianity's Catholic. So it's just bringing this treasure back. Well, and I was just, you know, and maybe, maybe Charlie or you want to say it out loud since y'all are converts, but, you know, he mentioned, well, some of the Protestants have done this. But now we have the Catholic version. What's different because we can't assume that all of our listeners know the difference between a Protestant Bible and a Catholic Bible. It's because you added all kinds of stuff, right, Charlie? Yeah, what you see here is an English translation of what St. Jerome put together, the Latin Volgate, which the Council of Trent said was the official Latin text of scripture. And so... What year, Charlie? Well, this version was created in the 1500s and then Bishop Chaloner updated it, removed some of the archaic language and that would have been in the 1700s. He did that in Elizabethan England. St. Jerome goes, gosh, way back. How early was that, Dan? Yeah, exactly, brilliant. Oh, come on, I threw you a softball and you'll miss it. Yeah, you put me on the spot, I put you back on the spot. Yeah, that's right, that's right. So anything else you want people to know about the Catholic Readers Bible that we haven't uncovered? I will say, before you answer that question, also a great gift idea for, you know, we're not, our shows are all kind of evergreen, but if we're rolling towards Advent at any time or Christmas or... Or Lent, what a beautiful gift for Lent. Or if you roll into... Easter. Confirmation, Easter, you know, where you want to give somebody just a special gift or someone you love to help their devotional life. But Charlie, anything else we didn't cover that's kind of interesting about the text itself. Yeah, look, I think a Readers Bible deserves a place in everybody's library. You know, we've all got multiple Bibles, multiple translations, study Bibles and I think a Readers Bible is definitely important one to have. And this, like I said, it's the only Catholic Bible. It comes in two editions. We've got the Gospels and then we've got the Epistles. So all of the New Testament is here. We have not done the Old Testament yet, but the two volumes are on sale on our website at SophiaInstitute.com right now. And if you order today, we can make sure we get it to your home by Christmas. Very good. So that's for folks who are listening the day of recording where we do our live streaming. But if you're hearing this recorded, you can still pop out to Sophia Institute Press. And then also EWTN Religious Catalog is very friendly. EWTN thinks very highly of Sophia Institute Press as well. That's right. We collaborate with them and publish their books through EWTN Publishing. So our producer told us the Jerome was 382 AD. There you go. We kind of go back a ways. Yeah. I think you hung out with a guest. I don't know if it was the same timeframe anyway. Awesome. So moving on from that, but related to this, what other resources are good for studying scripture? And what do you recommend, Charlie? I know I have a couple in my brain, but what do you suggest? That maybe could be like used in conjunction. Yeah, I think you and I probably share an affinity for the better part. Oh yeah. We have another Bartunek. I think that's a phenomenal resource. We published that. We acquired that from another publisher a couple of years ago because I was just such a big fan of it. We've got it both in the single volume and then we broke it out into four volumes that are more easy to carry around. That I think for understanding scripture is probably one of the best resources out there. The other thing I use is I downloaded this app some time ago called Katina, C-A-T-E-N-A. That's got, you can open it up and for every verse, you can see what various early church fathers and scripture commentators had said about what that verse is saying. And so I use that resource a lot, Katina. T-A-T-E-N-A. Yeah, I found it to be very helpful. Do you produce that or somebody else? No, I don't know who does it. So this is why I love Charlie McKinney. Charlie is not like a territorial guy. If something's good, he's gonna say it and it speaks to his heart because he's not just a publisher in it to make money, though that's important to keep the lights on and pay people and keep publishing. But the thing I love about Charlie and why I believe in Sophia is because he's in it for the souls of the people that he serves and he cares more about that than anything and he acts that way. He doesn't just say it, I've known him for years and he really lives it. So I appreciate that. Back to the better part published by Sophia of Supress. There, I'll just say this, there is no better daily reflection commentary. Did we just lose him? We just lose, so we just lost him off the screen. But so we're still good. There is no better daily reflection, devotional reflection on scripture that's ever been written in my opinion. I'm aware of a number of them. But it's Orthodox, it has depth, it really helps you. And I love the four volumes of the Gospels. Yeah, and I have to just say, I used the better part for three full years to study the daily readings every day as I began to study scripture to do daily mental prayer, meditation. And it was huge, it changed my life. I had just a periphery kind of understanding of who Jesus was through scripture and using the better part just changed everything. It just lit me up and it's really incredible. So I can imagine that you could study that for maybe your mental prayer time, look up your daily gospel reading or study an entire gospel like the John or Matthew, whatever, and then you could use this for just spiritual reading and reinforce the flow and the completeness of those teachings as you dive into God's words. It'll change your life. Yeah, the other one I'd add, Charlie, if you don't mind is Into the Deep, which I wrote and it sounds self-promoting. Promoting? But we don't, I have a toy to pick up, so just for the record. The, if you took Into the Deep and read it, like if you're wanting to start Lexio D'Amina, you really want to start a serious daily prayer, you could take the Reader's Bible and Into the Deep, read Into the Deep every day for Advent till you finish it, let's say, or whatever season you're in or whatever time you want to use, like a month. And then after you're done with it, begin using that approach in the Reader's Bible and it'll really jump at it, it'll be very rich. Well, and I would say this, I have conversations with Catholics everywhere, you and I both do, everywhere all the time, so does Charlie. And the thing is, the three of us can all attest to, diving daily into Scripture is where you encounter the Lord. It's where your heart and your mind will be changed. It is where you will truly meet the one who made you, who desires to have a relationship with you, who will love you and heal you and so many people have this kind of conceptualized view. If I go to Mass and I just show up, I'm a practicing Catholic. There is so much more for you. What you're experiencing now, if you don't pray daily, is about the size of a pebble, is how I compare it to what you would experience, you will experience, which is comparable to standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon. And it's so huge, so vast, so deep, so rich, and you will meet him there and he will change you. Charlie, you disagree with all that, right? I completely, absolutely agree with everything Stephanie said. When I became a Catholic, I did not have a spiritual life. I came in intellectually and I had no idea. The more I dug, the more I realized just how deep that well is. And I read Scripture every morning, meditate on it and there's no doubt that it's transformative, it's transformative, it transforms your spiritual life, it transforms everything around you. You see things you didn't see before, your relationships are better. There's no doubt that spending time with the Lord in Scripture is, that's where it's at. Amen to that. And I know, the other thing I'll say about Charlie, I've said a lot of nice things, but he's a man of prayer. He doesn't just live the Catholic life intellectually or outwardly, not just in outward acts, but he understands what we always say in Apostle E.V.A. All things for God begin before God on our knees. And then when we rise from our knees, we rise in the power and wisdom of Jesus Christ. We rise with his perspective, with his heart and then we approach the church that way. Charlie does that at Sophia Institute Press. I wanna tell you, they're 100% trustworthy. Everything they publish is gold. They're team, they're just awesome individuals end to end, no matter who you talk to. They're the real deal. And I would say, not only should you buy from them, but you should also donate to them. And we're out of time, unfortunately, Charlie, but we're gonna do a second show. And so folks, we're gonna livestream that out at spiritualdirection.com, Facebook, if you wanna pop out there. But I think you should wrap us up, still. Okay, so until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness. May he preserve you whole and entire, spirit, soul and body, irreproachable at the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ, amen. All right, very good. Yeah. So we're gonna kill this stream and then he should have a second link to the next. Yeah, we're gonna kill this stream. And for folks still on, head out to spiritualdirection.com, Facebook page. And you'll catch the second stream. And then all of this will end up out on spiritualdirection.com as well recorded. The shows will be recorded out there eventually. So. Okay. All right, we'll see you guys.