 We're talking about autism and AHD as very much a separate thing. So I really want to understand a bit more about the ADHD experience, because I know that there are some differences between. So it'd be good to kind of touch on, I guess, the experiences that you had, some of perhaps the difficulties that you may have compared to autistic ADHD as. There are some overlapping traits, right, which a lot of people probably know if they've looked at them, right, executive function difficulties, you know, a variety of things, but they show up in different ways. And one thing, I was thinking about this, that I experienced almost my ADHD self and my autistic self almost as two characters that are like fighting against each other sometimes in certain ways. The plain tug-of-war, push-bull kind of, yeah, yeah, because, you know, one part of the one part of me is like, oh, I like I love routine and need routine. And then one part of me is like, it will do it live. Yeah, very much so. And I wonder if I would have that experience if I had not learned about these two things as disorders that are separate, right? So I have this conception of them in my mind as these sort of as opposed to just sort of like, this is the way I am. But I have noticed because I so and I should also just say, you know, regarding, say, clients that I've worked with, if I'm referring to them, I've worked with well over 100 neurodivergent people at this point, that the people who are coming to me are mostly white, mostly middle to upper class, right? Like it depends and there's been some variation, but like I'm seeing a particular slice of population, right? And they're English speaking and, you know, mostly American. So that's like, you know, getting this very particular slice of the neurodivergent experience. So, you know, that's and then my own experience and my siblings. And one of the really interesting things I've noticed with ADHD specifically is so there's the autistic ability to make really, really good decisions. There may be decision fatigue. There may be trouble taking action on the decision, but this very like, you know, structured thinking through all the options, thinking through all the options as far into the future as you can, right? Like being very good at projecting outward into what might happen accurately. Autistic people are I saw one really cool study that's indicated that autistic people were less affected by elements of like tricky advertising because we're just trying to make a good decision. And we just like ignore the bad I relate to that. I'm actually the opposite. It's like, if I see an advert on the TV, I'm like, I know that you're trying to psychologically manipulate me into buying your product. I'm not going to do it. Yeah, exactly. Like it makes me mad. And then so I've got that that part of my brain, but then the ADHD part of my brain is like, I don't want to read it. I like won't read an instruction manual. I'm like, I don't want to read instructions. You know, I like, I just want to try it and just like get my hands dirty and get in there and do it and like, you know, even if even if it's uncomfortable and messy, I would rather just like get started. Yeah. And that ability to just kind of like jump in and take action on all of the information that my brain has been processing. Usually in the night when I'm trying to sleep, my brain's like, let's process all of our ideas. So thank you so much. So helpful. But like I have processed so much information. And then there is this part of me, this ADHD part that's just like, yes, I can like, I can just, I'll just start. I'll just start doing it. I'll just do it shittily. And I have noticed, like I'm just going again, you know, in a particular slice of population that my autistic clients often have trouble actually taking action on the decision without some support. So because they're so used to being told that the way they're doing it is wrong. And I just don't care, right? Like, so I think like to some extent, the ADHD melded together with the autism, it is just this really extreme level of not giving a shit about what anybody thinks and being willing to just like do whatever I want, you know, to an extent that's occasionally been harmful. But like, you know, it doesn't always work out well. But there is this like energy behind it that I'm able to just like take action. But then my autistic, you know, scrupulosity and ability to plan and love of routine keeps me from missing too many appointments, or, you know, just totally forgetting that something is happening on a day, which I still do on occasion. But like, there's this certain, unfortunately, a lot of how that's presented is just anxiety in my system is just like, remember the thing, which is not fun. But you know, there's so there's these parts of me that are helping me function in this world that was not built for my brain. And so again, like those things, you know, kind of come together in this way that have helped me in certain ways. But then it also made it really hard to get support and help because people were like, well, you're achieving and you're doing things. And I was like, yeah, but I'm like, not eating. Yeah, I relate to that. I suppose I'm really interesting because interested because, you know, in your experience, do you find that leading more into your ADHD side, or your autistic side is the most beneficial feel like overall well being and productivity? Like that is such a good question. Lean into your autistic traits or do you lean into your ADHD traits? I am typically happier when I lean into my autistic traits. But my ADHD traits are much more socially acceptable. So I receive more positive feedback when I lean into the ADHD traits. And just one small example I'll give of that is when I'm collaborating with someone on an artistic project, I found being willing to just send a sheet of draft. Yeah. Nobody has ever like, oh my God, you're a bad composer, right? They're just like, oh, cool, like let's fix these things, right versus the part of me. And I was thinking about this because, you know, I was telling you about this, I have already made it this quiz for what's your ADHD superpower? Because I looked at like, I was like, what are the overlaps between ADHD and autism, like positives that people, the things people talk about as positive? What are the things that overlap? And then I made a cute little quiz about it. And I was just laughing at myself that I was like, I'm so nervous to give this to you to share with people. This is a free thing. It's for fun. It doesn't matter versus when I'm writing literally an orchestral piece. I'm like, I just give it to the orchestra and they'll play it and I'll see how I like it, right? Like my brain is so uneven in how it applies perfectionism to things. And I think that that's hilarious. That's really interesting. Because I guess like, I think, I think with, with autism, you know, that in a lot of cases, the ideal scenario requires a lot of structure and a lot of planning and routine. And quite often that's not as easy, I think. But I've also heard from from ADHD is that they also find a lot of use with getting a routine in and actually like following it and finding some structure. It's just that they're not like naturally their brain is not inclined to to do that. Whereas with autistic people, we know because we feel anxious. We feel uncomfortable. We feel like in deep water, if we don't have that kind of sense of certainty and structure and routine within our lives. That is the single most frustrating thing as an ADHD person for me is part of me like physically wanting a routine so badly and loving it when I have it. And then no matter what routine I have, it's not going to last for longer than six weeks. You know, break out of your shallow and my brain is eventually just going to be like throughout the window. Like it's it does not last. And I know, I mean, I literally have studied this, you know, became a habit became an area of special interest for me. So I studied it a lot. I know a lot about them. I know a lot about the physicality of have a formation in the brain. I know a lot about, you know, plasticity in the brain and all of these things. And even with all of this information, I cannot force my neurotype to do something that it physically does not want to do. And when I do, when I use willpower to try to force my brain to do something that it doesn't want to do, then I'm just wasting my willpower that I could be using on eating and showering. Yeah. You know, using your poivre of your spoons before using all of your spoons to go above and beyond everything work and productivity related, but then leaving no spoons for you to sort of self-care and executive functioning and stuff. Yeah. Which makes sense. Because nobody's praising me for showering, except maybe my partner, I guess, if I get really gross. Well, I suppose as well, like, you know, the only, you know, I, a lot of the stuff that I do is online, so people won't really be able to say, I'll just dry shampoo it, put some deodorant on for my own well-being. You know, it, yeah, definitely. And it just, it seems for me that it just takes so much more energy to do that than to produce, like, the high level of content. I'll produce the, produce something that, that's very detailed. Yeah, I was going to say you produce a lot of content. That's what I mean. So it's like, on one hand, I can, I can do this thing. And yeah, it's probably going to be good, or I can just leave it up until a point where it's really difficult and just have a burn out and get it all salted. Yeah, obviously that's not the best way to do it, but I think I try to leave as many spoons for myself as possible. It's just, you know, as you said, that that interest dynamic of wanting to do things that you find interesting is just so, so strong for me. Yeah. And that is one of the other things with the, you know, audio HD together is the level of hyper focus I can engage in is absolutely wild. Forget to eat, forget to go to the toilet, forget to drink. Yeah, one time I forgot to eat for three days and you do that one time and people just never let you live it down ever. Yeah, I only once, but yeah, I frequently will forget to eat for like a whole day or I'll be thinking about it and I'll be like, I can't remember the last time I ate. Because I imagine that's quite, that's quite hard because, you know, there is an element with with autism around things like transitions, like transitioning from one thing to another. And I think a lot of people incorrectly think of it as only being an issue when you, when you're transitioning into something that you like. Like I love going to the gym often, very often, pretty much every day I have a difficulty transitioning into leaving to go to the gym. Like every day not, you know, I love going, it makes me feel great and it's my interest and I love watching the videos and listening to the videos while I'm working out and, you know, just, just completely just in front of myself in that, in that special interest. But still it's, it's so difficult. And it even going so far as, you know, I start work and then as you said, you just, you just continue working on it and working on it. And it's like you've got this like steam train brain where it's like it's really hard to get started. But once you get started and the more that you do and the faster that you go, it just stays at that speed. And it's just so hard to just like put the brakes on and you have to take some ages to get to like halt to a stop. And if you tried to do it too quickly, you get overwhelmed, you get emotionally dysregulated. Yeah. You're like, oh my god, you fall off the tracks. You're like, oh my god, everything's gone off your car goes gone. And then the day's gone. And, you know, it's the time at which you would have gone to do a certain activity. It's past and it's better just to kind of reset. Yeah. And what you're describing like one of the things because I have that exact experience, one of the things that can happen in that experience is that one of my routines disappears during that. Like, you know, it doesn't even have to be a melt down. It can just be a like a big either really hard day or like a transition that's like really doesn't go well or like thinking I'm going to do something and then I don't. And then having one of those like really hard periods of time around it, like as you're describing. And then it's like the next day when I wake up, one of my routines is gone from my brain. And I'm like, no. And, you know, like I part of part of what I want to, you know, express in my public life and being, you know, sort of vulnerable about the difficulties I still have, even after doing a lot of work is that this is not a problem. A lot of what I'm experiencing is like, oh, I hate this, that this routine is disappearing, you know, or or that I had a really bad day and that like that did something to my brain that I don't understand. And now my one of my routines is like gone, just gone gone. And I can't can't get it back. Right? I know how to rebuild it from scratch, but that's no fun. And I don't get the same dopamine rebuilding the same routine from scratch. So it actually doesn't work most of the time. And audience people will know exactly what I'm talking about. Like this is such a common experience. You know, you don't have that excitement of starting something new when you're motivated. I can't get into it. But on the other hand, like the other thing my brain is capable of doing is one time I was just casually making art with friends in a dorm room. And I looked up and everybody was staring at me and I was like what and they were like, you just looked down and you didn't move or talk or do anything except make art for three straight hours. And you just like literally your body didn't do anything else, you just made the art. And then you suddenly and then you looked up and we were all like, Oh, my God, are they okay? Yeah. Yeah. You know, so my brain has this capacity to go really deep and just like totally get lost. I did similar experience at university as well because around about that time, I think it's about my first year at university, I went into this like dorm room kind of complex of different different students with their own places. And I think there was like this summer day where everyone was kind relaxing and chilling out, you know, drinking and doing all that kind of student stuff. And I was like, oh, actually, I need to get some need to get some training in today. So I had this kind of like sandbag stand that I filled with water. And it had like this pole that went up and add some like kick pads at different heights on and stuff. I just went up there and I just kicked the pads for like two hours. And people started to notice because there was like a window going on to that onto the thing. And they started coming up and they were like, oh, you've been you've been here a while like you're gonna when you're going to finish. And I'm like, oh, I don't know. I kind of don't want to stop. And it's the same, like after tack on no training sessions, when when I came home after like couple of hours of training, really, really struggle to stop. And like it's so I'd have a routine where I come home after training after being depleted after two hours, where I had like a kettlebell and I just do like kettlebell jumps until my legs couldn't move. And then I then I go to sleep. The only time that I really feel like there's no time pressure is when I'm traveling. I love traveling because if I'm on the train for like five hours or two hours, I know that there's nothing else that I can do. So anything that I do do during that time, it's a positive. So I love just correct. Exactly. So it's like, I can't I can't go and exercise. I can't do a podcast. I literally it's like it narrows the amount of things that I'm able to do. And it makes me feel safer that I have that that narrowing. So I always just love at any time that I'm having a car journey or a train journey or anything like that. I love to just get stuck in like with one of the few things that I can do and feel completely comfortable and I guess fine with it and not like give myself hard time and these paralysis decision paralysis. So, you know, something like that. I struggle with that quite a lot.