 But it's OK. No, I'm using it. I'm using a Chromebook and the batter is getting a little bit low. Now we are alive. Now we are alive. The rockers weigh in. Zeus, that's the name of this sort of episode. The rockers weigh in. In a sense, I'm a rocker, I guess. You're a rocker, right? And Todd, he's the real deal. We're all rockers. Or we wouldn't be here. That's right. Producer extraordinaire joins us today. All the way in. Where are you in? Where are you at? I'm in Massachusetts. Western Massachusetts. Nice. My son's been doing there. Texas, Massachusetts. And Todd, Todd Littori, all the way in Florida. What's going on, Todd? Yeah. Feels like 109 degrees here. So I'm inside. Wow. Here in Montreal, it's a beautiful day. I don't know what 25 degrees Celsius is in Fahrenheit, but assuming it's about 85, somewhere around there. Beautiful. Yeah, that's nice. That's not bad. Yeah, yeah. All right, so guys, I'm going to, today's show, this is what we're going to talk about. Where do I find the live chat so we can maybe answer questions as we go? Yeah. Is that on YouTube, on YouTube Blade? Go to YouTube, The Metal Voice, yes. As you do that, I'll do the intro to the show, OK? I'll just let it play so you can go watch, OK? So you have one minute, guys. One minute of silence. There we go. That's the official launch. Can you see the, can you see now the chat, Todd? Zeus, I'm assuming you're not watching the chat, but we'll fill you in. I don't know how to do it. It's OK. It's OK. It might happen. I mean, it's on the right. I don't know, but, yeah. OK, so here we go. Here's the topics. All right, we'll just kind of get into them. If anybody else has a topic that's watching and want to chat about something, we'll gladly weigh in. Self-producing versus getting a real producer like Zeus. Should bands self-produce their own albums or should they just pay a little more money and get a real producer to do the job? Standing versus sitting at a rock show, right? Lazy guys like me, I want to sit. But bands want to see their fans stand. And filming at shows, taking your phone and going like this. Like the whole show just pointing your camera for an hour and a half. Till somebody kicks it out of your hand. Let's start off with self-producing versus getting a real producer to produce your album. And, you know, Zeus is on the show today. So I'll I'll let you start things off with that topic. I always say that I mean, there's nothing wrong with either one. But when you have a producer, it's like another year. It's another person to bounce your ideas off of. It's, you know, when you've got four guys that you wrote your songs and you've heard them a million times and you bring in a producer, they're going to listen to it in a different way than you. You know what I mean? They're going to they're going to dissect it. And hopefully offer some good advice on how to make your songs better. Was that the golden you know, go ahead, go ahead, Todd, sorry. Well, I was going to say the word better is obviously subjective. So you have situations where maybe a producer is trying to trim off the fat. Maybe an intro is going too long before it starts to get into something, you know, you don't you want to keep their attention, right? And then there's other bands where their format is very experimental and free flowing. And they say, no, I want this to go longer and breathe. So I mean, Zeus would agree that obviously it's very subjective. I think where a producer comes that's that's helpful, um, especially one like Zeus is he's a guitar player, he plays bass. But, you know, is like a lot of musicians get a producer will come in with zero. What's the word I'm looking for? They don't have any attachments to the song when a when a songwriter writes something and they're like they have a personal attachment to it. And there's an emotional thing there. Whereas a producer, it's just a song at first. And, you know, they're not married to that demo. So it's easier for them to start ripping the song apart and saying, I would change this, this is great, this is good. This isn't transitioning well. And you have to grant that producer a certain amount of authority. If you're going to hire him as a producer, if you're going to argue with your producer the whole step of the way, then you shouldn't have him or he's not the right fit for your band. But, you know, you really kind of are bringing in that extra person to to really fine tune things and have, like, like he said, have that extra set of ears that is the songs are fresh. You know, you might think you're onto something. And then a lot of times, you know, as a songwriter, you'll you'll sit on it for however long when you go back and listen to it. If it's still not resonating with you, you're like, OK, something's this isn't it, it can be better. What needs to be better? And so that's where a producer a good one is. So here's the big question. So Zeus, yeah, is the is the producer fulfilling his vision? Or is he fulfilling the vision of the band? Yeah, well, see, there's there's even more to it. You know, Todd brought up a lot of good good stuff. A lot of good stuff. I mean, sometimes it has nothing to do with the music. You want to know how many times I'll get a phone call at eleven o'clock at night because, you know, somebody might be having an issue in their personal life in the in the in the project that you're in or I mean, I'm holding it all together here. And I got to be, you know, the guy that takes all these opinions in and talks to all these people, you know, even down to talking with the record label, talking with the managers, like it's a lot of moving parts. OK, well, I mean, let's define a producer. The producer, is he getting the best performance out of an artist? Is he the liaison between the band and the record label? Is he. Engineering the sound, you know, of each instrument, the getting the tones of each instrument as the vocals as well. Is he getting all the takes? Like, what is he doing? What's a producer doing? Well, I think that all that that has all changed over the years, I think, you know, like a producer used to be just the guy that made sure the band got to the studio on time and things like that. And then, you know, producers started to be engineers. Like, I know a handful of producers that don't know anything about the technical side of things, you know, so it all depends, really. Like the way that I did it was I tried to learn it all like you hire me and I'm going to give you a finished record. You know, or, you know, you could have a team where you have a guy like that's a producer, he's got an engineer, he's got an editor. You know, sometimes you need to offload some of the work, you know, and it's sometimes it's just too much for one person. I'm just used to doing, you know, sitting there and doing kind of it all one time. I'll you got to know when to zone out and, you know, listen to certain things that are maybe, you know, engineering related or you're always got to look out for that kind of stuff in my world, you know what I mean? But the main focus always for me is the songs. But getting back to this, but Todd, Todd, let me ask you this now. You have a song that you wrote that's very personal to you when you have a vision of how that's going to come out. And then Zeus steps and says, no, no, I want you to sing it like that. And you say, wait a second, stop interrupting what I'm doing, right? No, I want to sing it this week, because that's where my vision is. But then Zeus is saying, no, no, I think you could do a better job this way. Well, I always suggest I always suggest you buy it some way. You know, I'll never tell anybody you have to do it certain a certain way. I'll be like, let's try it this way. It might, it might not. Yeah. So for, for example, you know, there's times where I'll do something and he will say, hey, dude, you know, you, it was a great delivery, but you cut the note a little too short. You need to carry it a little longer and then we'll do it again. And then there's times where he'll say, dude, that was great. You nailed it. And I'll say, no, hit record again. I let him go, I don't know, dude. And we sing where I'll say, no, do it again. But it's times where I'm hell bent on my way. Hils, we will cede to listening to the other person. And then usually if he knows that it's really nine times out of 10, I'm not going to do something where he's going to be like that sucks. Like he's, he knows how I work and he respects what I come up with. But there's times where I suck and I ask him, hey, what should I do here? What do you think? But I mean, a lot of times, you know, I'll fight for something. If I've been different about it, it's not as big a deal. But, you know, sometimes there are other situations where I'll do something and I'm like, dude, it's I got to do it. I don't want to do it any other way. And he'll go, I know, but it'll say, I really think it's better that way. And I'll say, well, why don't we do them both guys? You're breaking up a little bit. You're getting choppy there, Todd. Todd, you're getting a little choppy there and you're really OK. So yeah, I see my signal. Sometimes you just have to try things a few different ways. And then sometimes the hardest part is, is, you know, saying that part didn't work at all. We've got to rewrite the whole section. We've had to do that before. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. So Chris, guys, but I want to tell you something. So, OK, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Am I still breaking up or am I cleaner? Well, you're OK now. You're OK now until I'll tell you when. OK. Yeah, just, you know, go like that when I'm breaking up. Twitter. One of the other stuff I just wanted to touch on real. One of the things I want to touch on what he said was, you know, you have some guys that. I mean, just a room and they're just listening and they're directing what they like and about the song and. Are you I'm telling you, Zeus, are you seeing the same thing? Are you seeing choppy? OK, it's not just me. How about this, Todd, take your laptop, go to another room. Can you do that closer to your near your your your router? You're getting choppy. I mean. So I'm. I'm just telling you to choppy. You're having these great points and then he gets all choppy. Fucking Chromebook. Get a Mac. OK, Todd, see if there's another room. I mean, I don't know what you're doing. I close all browsers. Anything that you have open. Yeah, other than this. OK. Yeah. If I dis if I disconnect, don't worry about it. I'll reconnect. You bet. You bet. I just want to say something. Zeus, I talked to the great late Chris Sangeridis and I go, why did everything sound so great back then? You know, the alms, they just were perfect. And he goes because we had so much money to pay for everyone. The best of the best, the best studios, the best engineers, the best mixers, the best everything. I mean, how true is that statement back then versus today? I don't really know. I mean, sometimes that all that shit can be abused. You know, like you give a guy all that stuff and you might not get shit out of them. They know they got a nice hotel. They got, you know what I mean? They're they're not even in the game sometimes, you know? Sometimes I've done records where people are too comfortable. OK. Oh, and, and, you know, sometimes when you take them away from all that and they're away from home, for instance, they're going to fucking do so much better. I'm saying in that situation, because they can't wait to go home. So they're going to do, they're just going to focus. OK, Todd, you OK there? I'm going to connect. OK, all right. Hold on, hold on. Give me a sec before you do that. So I'm going to lead. I'm going to. OK, I'm going to go. Go. All right. Oh, my thing there. Wait, wait, wait. He's all getting messy here. God, have you disconnected? OK. Now there's the two of us. Now look at this. I have a Metallica thing from last time. Yeah, just you and me, just you and me. Speaking of Metallica, have you seen any of the new shows like the new tour? Yeah, I was just there. They just played Montreal and I was at one of the shows. And I would say that Todd's coming back now. Bring them on. Here's my question to you. How do you feel about the big stage like that in the middle? Oh, we did a whole show on that, but I could revisit that very well. I'll let Todd. OK, Todd's back. Apologies to everyone. But that's what it is live, man. It's like a band when a band plays live, you know, strings break. And when we do a zoom, you know, people fall off and they come back on and voice vocals get choppy. And Todd, you can hear us. Yep. OK, great. All right. I'm on my cell phone. Is that OK? Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. In pattern. So just to tell you in 30 seconds, Zeus Metallica, for those who do not know, they're doing that 360 stage. They're smack in the middle of a stadium of 60,000 people. The people who are standing in the pit, they're very close. They're everyone saying that the sound was pretty good if you're sort of standing there. But it's like what, five, six hundred bucks a pop for a ticket. Right. If you could afford it. So we have to go to the seats. The lower level seats in the stadium, you can't see nothing, basically, because it's it's a sort of a proximity thing that you're looking straight and they're very far away. But the higher you go up, the more you can sort of see it from a bird's eye view. And people who are sitting in the higher level said, you know what, the sound was a lot better and we could see the stage. You could see everybody running around. And it was more of a the performance and the show was a lot better at the higher level. So that's a summary of Metallica. There you go. But I don't like I'm a guy who likes sound. So, you know, the sound was pretty bad in the stadium. But what are you going to do? You know, it's the experience. Everybody says, you know what? It's the experience that you're going for. And I get that. And the people left very happy and they loved it. And that's that. That's Metallica. Todd, what were you saying about where were we? Where do we leave off? We were talking about producers and I was just producers. I was just saying that, you know, some producers, like he said, don't know, don't do the engineering and they'll have an engineer that they're working with. And I think that, you know, a lot of guys fans are kind of looking for an all in one kind of package. And the other thing, too, is is Zeus is mobile. So I don't know if you know that, but a lot of guys just work out of like one studio and, you know, that's really hard, especially when you're dealing with artists that travel and tour and you're doing it in different pockets of time. You know, a lot of times he'll he'll come down to Florida and we'll work or I'll I'll go up to his place and work and he does work, you know, he could speak for himself on what he wants to divulge, but he works with other artists where he's literally built entire studios in their houses or on their property and and then tear down when when that record's done. So he's got a couple, you know, a full in-house setup where he's at and then he's got a mobile rig, maybe two mobile rigs and that way, you know, he's he can go to your location and he gets a lot of work that others won't get just because he's mobile. That's pretty cool. Well, that's the reality of today, right, Zeus? You got to be, you know what, like Deep Purple did it when they made Machine Head, right? You know, they set up in a mansion and went to town and there you go. Yeah. Yeah, that's what we do with P&A. It's it's a lot easier today, right? Because the equipment is more mobile. You're bringing laptops or bringing software. You're bringing you're not bringing as much. You're not bringing a whole studio with you. That's the thing. You could get it down to like maybe 16 rack spaces. If you're doing a full record with drums and everything and be pretty comfortable. Do you think, Zeus, that the melody has been lost in not all metal today, but in a lot of it because bands are so fixated on producing things themselves and they're not wait, they're not listening to another opinion. I mean, I don't know about the melody aspect of it. I mean, that might just be the band just doesn't have any ideas. You know, I mean, that's not necessarily always a producer's thing either. You know, like, you know, some bands are just noise core. They don't have any melody and, you know, like put on a Voivod record. I mean, Voivod record. I mean, but keep in mind, even Voivod went through a melodic phase where they brought in I know, right. Right. I'm not saying I'm just I picked like an early like Voivod where there wasn't it was more noise, you know what I mean? I got you. You know, I don't know if that's like a producer's thing. That's what I'm saying. Like I'm just saying, you know, people say they love the 80s. Todd, everybody says they love the 80s. They love the 80s. You turn on the radio. You hear an 80s tune that melody just resonates with everyone. It connects with everybody in the world. Was that the producer who pushed the band? I think it was something they didn't see. I think it was a combination of both. And I think that you didn't have what we considered metal back then could have been anything from Iron Maiden to Dio to Dawkin to Wasp to, you know, you've got such extreme metal now where real singers are becoming few and far between. I think it's more about that is more like the singing style. And when you got somebody screaming like Todd's about to touch upon you know, and we've talked about this before, there's not as much melody in us and somebody just going full on screaming and yelling as opposed to singing something. Yeah, there's not really much of a melody. I mean, it could be like kind of percussive and melodic in a percussive way. But I'm never going to leave if I put on liquid metal and I listen to. You know, if I'm in the car driving for an hour, it's rare if I'm going to hear an actual real singer. It's going to be all screamo and it all sounds derivative and nothing sounds. If I didn't know who the band was, ninety percent of them all sound like the same band to me. And they're probably they're really great at what they do. It's just back in the earlier days when you put on, you know, Judas Priest, you think you knew that was who it was. You don't have that identifiable sound anymore like you used to have those separations and I'm calling out that metal station because that's a that's a serious XM station that plays a lot of metal. They'll play old school stuff like Exodus and Annihilator and Testament and Overkill, but a lot of the newer stuff that I'm hearing, everybody's so downtuned, they're eating up bass frequencies. Everybody's trying to sound so heavy. It's just it's just it's boring. It's just boring to listen to. You know, maybe it's fun to watch live, but as a songwriter, I'm not going to walk away. I never get out of the car humming a melody that most of what's played on that station is offering and you know what? When I'm when I'm saying melody, I don't necessarily mean a vocal melody. You know, smoke on the water is a melody, right? Just the guitar riff itself and that sort of resonates with everyone, right? That guitar riff is the melody. That's what everybody remembers at the end of the day. Most people couldn't even tell you what, you know, Yngill and the singing, but they remember that guitar riff, Zeus. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, I agree with you like that, too. Absolutely. You know, and I think like what Tab is saying, I think even guitar playing is getting stale now. You know, like what's the problem? Is it there's just too much music out there? I think everybody I think a lot of people just don't have their own identity. Like it's almost like when when we were growing up, you knew who George Lynch was when you heard him or Martin D. Martini or Eddie Van Halen or Richie Blackmore. Like you could tell those guitar players apart. And I think now that everybody learned everything. Everybody is almost really good now. And you don't really know what's sticking out. And to both of you, is it the fact that individually, everyone's gotten better. But as a band, as a collective, they haven't played together enough to truly capture who they are. You know, it's kind of like like bands of the olden days, they really had to work the club scene. They really had to practice in their basement for the most part. And then perform in front of a record label, you know, showcase. And then maybe they would be signed and then go out on tour for like a year. Is that element of practice? It doesn't it doesn't exist anymore. Therefore, bands can't find their identity anymore. Yeah, the pool is a little polluted these days. And I think that the herd needs to be thinned. I mean, yeah, that and also like thin the herd, I think. How do you do that, though? I don't know how do you do it? You stop signing a gazillion bands that all sound the same. And, you know, you promote the best of the best. I mean, there's a lot of anybody can put a video out. I mean, that's no big deal. If you got a cell phone, you can make a video. But I think that with with kind of. And again, I'm painting a very broad brush and I don't mean to. I'm not trying to knock extreme metal. I like extreme metal. There are bands that stick out to me. Behemoth sticks out, you know, testament, overkill. These are these are vocalists that I mean, even Lamb of God, when you hear Lamb of God, you're like, OK, I know that that's that singer. But when you hear the constant screamo stuff, it literally just they kind of all. Honestly, it's not that hard to do. It's not that hard to do. It takes some practice and it takes conditioning. But once you get it down, you never have to sing in pitch, because you're not singing an actual note. If you were to vocalize that into a. If you went in a microphone and you look at it in a tuning program, it's just fragments of split splits. Yeah. So you don't ever have to harmonize. You never have to sing in pitch. You never have to really vibrato. It doesn't take a lot of talent compared to like legit, real singing. It does take skill and there are people that know how to do it properly. But there's a different there's a difference there, though. It's kind of like it's just like a workout, right? You know, you just can work out to it doesn't really require much. I don't know if it's talent is the right right word. But I think it's the technique. It's technique more than talent because you can you can be tone deaf and still be a screamo singer. And it doesn't matter what you're it doesn't matter because there's no key that you have to sing in for the most part. And look, I love Gunnerls. I think that they're very effective and there's a time and a place for them. So again, I'm not trying to say that that anybody who sings or vocalizes that way sucks. I'm not saying that at all. Maybe they actually do sing like Nurgle actually does sing. But in being that he does full on Gunnerls, but he's got such a great sound. You know, there are those distinct voices where you can kind of pick it out. But I'm just saying to wrap this this little piece up. Yeah, music has become so extreme. I think a lot of focus has been on extreme drumming with constant double bass. Very complex fills. Fast, fast, fast, fast. There's a there's a space. Let's fill it with something. The rhythms are super complex. Then you have leads that are shredding the whole time. And it just is like there's nowhere to go. It used to have peaks and valleys. And now a lot of it's just on eleven. And look, if that's just the style, I can I can accept that. It's just very linear and there's not a lot of room to go anywhere. If you listen, but Arch enemy, for example, they have very melodic guitar playing and singable melodies, right? But they're also very riff based and heavy. And they know when to pull back and when to push it forward. But I think just, you know, the stuff I write that I'm writing is is typically in like E or E flat. I mean, if you went to a metal band and say I'm writing an E flat, they were laughing because they think that lower means heavier. And it can give you a heavy sound by default. But it's all kind of sounding the same, the drums and the sound. I mean, Zeus can talk more about it. Zeus, you want to close off this part of it? And it's to self producing or getting yourself a producer? I mean, I mean, I mean, it kind of the topic kind of veered off. But I mean, in the end, look, you know, sometimes self producing might be the ticket, you know what I mean? You might get everything you want out of your songs and everything by just doing it yourself and it's been done before. And then other times produced my record by myself. And I'm sure there are things that Zeus would have changed. But to be honest, as much as I love the guy, I didn't want anybody else's opinion. And if and if it suffered later, I didn't really care because I had to when I had you guys redo the bass. You did. But that was a sound thing. That was a sound thing that wasn't a stylist. True, true, true. All right, guys, let's move off to I think we kind of dragged this one out a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Guys, I just want to show you something. What do you got? I'll show Todd this. Look, a Wenzie, a Wenzie, a metal voice Wenzie. Cool, huh? Yeah, I'm going to wear that on the next tour around the tour bus. Metal, yeah, metal voice ones. You just got a vendor to wear one. Dude, hey, metal voice hat. There you go. Bender would wear one of those. The hat, that's good. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Problem with hats is you got to put them in a box to like ship them out. And that's where things get very complicated because you need a box like this. And then you go, oh, crap. Now this is going to cost me like 30 bucks to ship it somewhere. So that's the problem. All right, standing versus sitting. All right, I was at a show. I was at Iron Maiden. I was sitting down on my seat. Beautiful view, like you couldn't get a more beautiful view of Iron Maiden. We're sort of like really low, but we're sort of low enough where we can just see the band perfectly on the side. And then two girls just stand up in front of us. And nowhere else, nowhere else. They're just standing right in front of us. Yeah, and even doing a little dance to, I don't know, like number of the beast. And and, you know, like you're sitting there and you're going, OK, let them enjoy, you know, a little bit of stand up time, right? It's all good, but they kept standing. And then you're kind of like going like this. Then you're kind of going like that. And then I have to stand up. And then the guy in back of me asked to stand up. Now we started this chain reaction of everybody standing up because two girls wanted to stand there and dance to number the beast. So, guys, what are your thoughts? Zeus, do you go to a show? Do you prefer to stand? Do you prefer to sit? What do you prefer to do? I stand, you know, like you're one of those people. OK, you're there for a reason. I mean, yeah, when the bands are gone and the next band is, you know, about, you know, setting up or whatever, like I'll maybe I'll sit down or whatever, but, you know, what are you doing there if you're going to be? But you bought you bought a seat, right? You purchased. I know, right? Right. But I understand. But if you want to stand, maybe not go. I guess just growing up like you didn't sit. You know, you never sat. You'd look like a jerk. All right. Did you sit during the opening act? I mean, not really like. So you've been standing in the opening act. What if you don't even know the band? Are you standing? I'll stand. OK. What about you, Todd? My low back kills after standing for 20 minutes where no matter where I am. So I like to sit as a performer on the stage. It's always better when people are standing. But as when I go to a concert, if I have the option to sit, I would prefer sitting and watching and taking it in. Plus I'm five foot seven. A lot of people are taller than me. And unless I'm in the front, which isn't going to happen, I can't see shit anyway. So I'd rather be if there's like a balcony or a side upper tier and I can sit and watch, I would much rather sit and watch all day long. But that's that's that's not from an energy thing. That's because my back hurts. If my back didn't hurt, OK, I'd probably stand. But it's tiring standing for if you're going to go see a show and you're there for two, three hours, you know, I'm I'm shot. I need to go sit down, you know. And a lot of times, you know, I'll get on my knees and like crouch all the time. I do it in the airport. I do it just hanging out. I'll sit down or crouch because of my back pain. But I mean, when you're on the stage and you look out and you see every like a theater show, everyone's sitting and you're and it's hard to gauge, you know, are they really into the show because they're seated, right? And then, you know, or at the very beginning, they stand up and then you know, people that are, you know, seated or like, you know, oh, I can't see now, so then they stand and everybody ends up standing up and then they finally sit down. But yeah, it's a it's I don't know. Do you like do you like a standing club show? Do you like sitting in a theater? I just got to say something here that I went to I told Todd this before. I went to see Dream Theater. I go, I got second row and it's a theater. In other words, there are seats like there's no where to stand, right? There's absolutely no where there's seats. You could only sit and I went to see again. I saw Dream Theater. I was second row right up front and the guy in front of me stands. It's like for the love of God. Like, seriously, I mean, I couldn't and I'm going to have to go like this at second row and you couldn't rush a stage because you just can't because the seats are hard seats. You can't move them. They're theater seats and the guy standing like and he's shut his chain reaction all the way in back of me and I just want to say something that I have back problems like Todd mentioned. I can't stand for more than an hour and I have osteoarthritis knees. I can't stand for an hour. I went to a show I stood for three hours. My knees were finished and my back was finished and it took me like two months to recover from it. So yeah, like when I when I said like I stand and stuff, like, look, you know, some people have issues and everything and I have nothing against people sitting, but me personally, like if I'm going to go out and I'm going to see Iron Maiden or whatever, like I'm so how many times do I do I get to do that? I'm going to stand, you know, you know, there's no right or wrong answer here. There is a question of preference, right? Well, I did a poll to see what the right and wrong answer is. OK, and you want to hear what the results are? Do you prefer to sit or stand when you go see a metal show? What do you think the percentages are to sit and stand? Hmm. I don't know. I bet watch beat there be more stand or more sitters. OK, well, give me a percentage. All right. 40 percent, 60 percent stand. Todd, what do you think the percentages are on everyone? Asking everyone, do you prefer to sit or stand when you go to a metal show? What do you think percentage are? 80, 20 to stand. Yeah, it's 80 to 20 stand. OK, yeah, it's 80 to 20. And hang on. Now let's break it down into gender. OK. Female and male. Oh, all right. So what's the status on men? Do they prefer to stand or sit? What's the percentages? They I think they all I think maybe men might like to stand more, but I think it's probably pretty close. It is pretty close. Female to male men is just a little bit more. They prefer standing than female. So I thought it was the other way around, actually. Maybe it depends if I didn't say metal. I just said show in general, where people always dance at shows. I don't foreigners or something. Maybe people more in general prefer to stand. I don't know, but it's pretty much an 80, 20 split for standing. So most metal heads, at least according to this survey, say they prefer to stand. All right, like when I went when I went to I took my sister to Brian Adams and I wanted to make sure we had good, you know, seats. And for like upfront, they were like a little bit more, they weren't that much more. And it was like within the first 10 or 15 rows. And then and I told her, I honestly like we're going to get there and everybody's going to be standing. My sister's like five feet tall. I'm like, we're going to be screwed. So let's let's go on the first tier up. And I got second row, second row of the, you know, the first level up. And no kidding, the people in front of us stood up. And I'm I got a look in between their shoulders. And I thought, come on, you know, and the ladies, she's going, me, me. Every time Brian Adams would go, me, me. I think she thought he was really looking at her. But, you know, even sitting like that. But, dude, after sitting, we saw Joan Jett and then Brian Adams. And there's no way I could have stood nonstop through that show. So I got a seat. It was way better. What my friend and I used to do back in the day is, you know, we'd go see a concert, we'd bring binoculars, you know, and we would like check out the drum gear and like we would get really close to see, you know, now. That was before jumbo screens. That was before jumbo screens. Now, people are getting like nosebleed seats for 200 bucks. And they're watching the jumbo screen to see who's actually on stage because they're this big. Well, that's what happened with me in Metallica. I was basically just watching the jumbo screen and go, oh, there they are. OK, there they are. OK, great. All right, good. Cool. You know what they should have? They should have headphones for everyone who attends a concert. And you just get like fed into the soundboard somehow. What do you think? Well, what was the sound like? It was terrible. Like for a stadium show, you should get headphones. Everybody should have headphones and they plug in like earpods. Like earpods and they plug into the plane and they give you those. Yes, like earbuds, but like you still got to plug them in like. So you have your phone, you have your phone, your plug in. Yeah, you can't tell me. Yeah, and they would have that, you know, the Metallica logo where they just do now, like here's your earbuds, like with the M on. You know, we're going to invest and you know the technologies there. We're like, they can make them cheat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, you download this app, listen to Metallica as they perform and you know, don't be playing live. It's just you're getting the sound that's coming right. Like almost like an in ear mix, Todd. Isn't that a great idea, Todd? I think we've got our new investment. You know, you might be on to something, Jimmy. No, we'll call it live, like L E V E or something. We'll just make a nap live. OK, real quick. Hold on, Jimmy, before we go to the next thing. Yeah, we'll go through a few of these comments. Somebody says is asking if when I said drum gear, that that's a code for something. It's not a code for anything. It's actually the drum equipment on the stage. I want to look at how their stuff set up. I want to see how they're playing close up. So that's not that has nothing to do with anything code. Well, that's Tanvir saying that gentlemen, do you think racism is an issue within metal? Why isn't there much diversity reflecting? I don't think this genre. Yeah, I don't know. Like absolutely, there's more whites who are in metal. But I think that's North America. That's North America, though, because if you go to Asia, everyone there is. Yeah, I mean, that's like, I mean, I mean, R&B and soul and hip hop was really black people's music. And it was it was their culture. And it was that's what they talked about. And then, you know, white people started to like it. And then they started rapping about it. I mean, I mean, that's I think it's kind of a cultural thing, more cultural, but certainly metal. I mean, my point is, if you go to Asia and everyone's Asian, you're going to see all the bands that are Asian, right? Because they're all Asians there in North America. It just happened to be that area where it seemed that way, right? But I don't think necessarily the case, at least today, it's not the case. That's yeah, that's what I feel. It's so mixed now. It's a global world, man. Every there's there's metal bands everywhere. I don't I mean, I've I've never seen or experienced anything race racist in in heavy metal or any bands that I've seen or any festival environments that I've seen. It's always been very embracing across any kind of ethnicity or. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah, it was one more that I saw. It's a brother and sisterhood metal. You know, everybody who loves metal is just one big happy family from all walks of life. So somebody from BFJS Productions, I guess this is when we were talking about producing, somebody said, what does this have to do with producing? How a singer sings makes no difference? I mean, fair enough. But, you know, we kind of I kind of went off into a different area. So. Whatever. Let's see. Voices do have a huge effect on the production. My voice sounds like Peter Steele. It's literally that low and that's hard to fit in with heavy guitars. So you need to scoot things a lot. That's a good comment. Witherfall, a great fall. Witherfall says bands are just too stuck on conforming to genre and stopped writing songs. So a little shout out to Witherfall. Very, very great musicians, amazing singer. You know, I mean, that's a band that has a lot of their new record. Actually, I'll plug them witherfall. Yeah, there you go. Some good stuff. So anyway, yeah, I mean. Somebody last one, somebody said casino venues. They feel big but are intimate. If it's a new band, then I might sit the bigger bands I'm wanting to run up front. So now. Anyway, we can move on to the. You know, I went I went I went to see Ozzy Osbourne. I think it was Bark at the moon. I was right up front as a kid as a kid. But people were not only standing on their seats. They were sort of standing on the top of their seats. Yeah. So it was pretty crazy. And then I'm still not that tall. So I have the same problem as Todd. You know, I'm just trying to like get a get a peek of what's going on there. And it's just not easy, right? The tall guys haven't made. For sure. Yeah. And before we get on to the next topic, if there's another question or something, somebody wants to comment on the live chat, you know, these were just a few topics that we thought we would discuss. But if you've got something in here, we got another 10, 15 minutes to go. He's got another topic, though. Another topic. He's going to he's going to bring it up right now, right, Jimmy? Yes, yes, yes, yes. As we wait for somebody else to toss out a topic. Actually, I think I saw another one there. Tanvir had one. Let me just go back. Does the current state of the music business allow any failure? If not, how could this change? Really? So does the current state of music business allow any failure? I think that was the case 30 years ago. You know, they had this big, the record companies had these big charts, right? And if the band didn't sell X amount after the second album, they just basically were let go, right? But today, I think because of the independent albums and because of streaming, everyone's a little more lenient when it comes to letting bands go, it's kind of like you're paying to be on a label in some ways. Here's the other thing. Unless you want physical, unless you want distribution and to use their marketing access, like if you don't know the right people at magazines or radio shows or other press outlets and you you need to utilize their contacts, you know, they're going to help promote the record with probably an in-house publicist that's going to set up interviews and that kind of thing. If you're just going digital and you don't care about physical sales, I don't think you I don't think you need a record label. But if you if the other thing is record labels back then nurtured and helped grow and develop the artist. And now I think it's kind of like, here's our band. Do you like us? Are we good enough for you guys to put on your label? And then what does that mean? You're not going to get tour support. You're going to get a certain budget depending on the metrics that they use. And, you know. And then there's what are you going to own and what is the label going to own? Where are you going to give up to get something from them? Because they're not going to just give you something for nothing. It's yeah, it's an interesting topic for sure. Zeus, any any thoughts on that? I mean, in sports, if you can't cut it, you're gone. Yeah, it's a good analogy, you know? You're just as good as your last pitch. But then again, you know, sometimes, you know, the band might release cool stuff and it just might not sell a lot. But that doesn't mean that it's not good. So that sells amazingly well, that could be deemed as not good. Like it's just popular, right? I mean, we we we know of instances where something's just really popular and it and it really wasn't that difficult to do. But. So somebody asks, are bands given enough time to develop? I mean, I think if you're a band that's developing and you're trying to do something, you're going to try to find proper management, proper management will then try to connect you with proper booking agents. And then but then you have certain labels that put out records that they're not going to tour on and they're just like a super group project or something and they just put an album out. And then it's it's just kind of a of a one one and done kind of make a quick buck. That's what it is, right? Like here's X amount of dollars. Let's put a super group get together, you know, and you'll all get a few grand a piece, put it out there and that's the end of that, right? If it sticks and sticks, if it doesn't, well, that's what unless you said, hey, this will just be a cool recording project. We don't plan to tour on it. This is just for recording purposes and a creative, collaborative thing. I can accept that. I think that's cool. But but you don't usually hear that. You usually hear, well, you know, if the opportunity presents itself that we could go out, that's like you're one of a one generic answer, right? They don't want to say they're never going to tour on it. But the reality is ninety nine point nine percent of these these albums that are thrown together, they're never going to tour on. But you know, back in the day, again, an artist to a back in the day, an artist to one one label had to get clearance to perform with another band on another label, in other words, as a special guest, right? Let's say you had Peter Gabriel, you know, singing on Metallica's new album back in the day, you'd have to get clearance. You'd have to get authorization. Some some artists weren't allowed to perform on other labels that was written in the contract today. What you're seeing is the reverse of that. Everybody's playing on everybody's album. Zeus, do you see a lot of that? You see, like, yeah, I mean, that's been going on for a while now, where there's a lot of guest spots and, you know, the point where it's overdone. Well, that's what I was just going to say. Like I'm starting to see say I say that to some bands. I'm like, unless you're going to get somebody that's super special, the guy that you want probably already was on five other albums. It's not cool. Yeah. You know, it loses its special thing. I was working with one band and they had like five guest spots on it. I'm like, you know, I want to hear you guys, man. That's right. No one even cares at that point. You know, like in every time, half the time, the singer will do like a guide vocal of what he wants the guest to do. And it's never as good. Like, I mean, like the the guest is never as good as the guy that's in the band a lot of times like back in the day. I remember like Crocus when they came out with Headhunter, Rob Halford guest that on Ready to Burn. And that was like a special moment. Oh, crap, Rob Halford's moment was a special moment. Now it's just a marketing tool like, hey, we have 10 guests on our new album, you know, promote us and everybody listened to us featuring, featuring, featuring, featuring, yeah, come on. It's been done. A lot of gas. All right, let's just change gears here. Let's talk about you're going to a show. You pay, I don't know, 200 bucks for a seat. And then you do this the whole time you're doing this. You're not even looking at them. You're just looking at your phone the whole time. You're doing this. And Todd, I see Todd Littori up there and I go, Todd, right in your face. I just put it right in your face and I go, Todd Littori. And Todd's like he's trying to concentrate as he's singing and he's a professional, right, but at one point it must be annoying. So that's one side. But what I'm saying, that's one side. And then there's another side to it. Labels and PR companies, they want fans to record the shows because it helps sell the tour, right? Because the next day, everybody posts the videos and pictures on social media. And it entices people who didn't think they were going to go see the show. But then it's like ruined. You know, it's like, I already know this is already I already know the production. I already know what it's going to look like. It's like, I don't know. So people go on to set list FM all the time and they want to see what the songs are before they go, I am not that guy. No, but I am, but I am because I want to know what I'm going to hear. Why? Because I want to be prepared. What if there's one song I don't know? I want to go to see a show where I know all the songs. Start listening. But that's like going to see a movie and you know and you know every scene. Like, yeah, like you read, oh, no, no, that's not the same thing. Come on, guys, that's not the same thing. We'll see a movie that you already seen. No, it doesn't work like that. I like what I hate is going to a show and there's five songs I don't know. And I'm like, OK, what are these songs? I don't know. I just I rather know that you might be surprised. You don't know what is OK. Once in a while, it's OK. So what I do think it's annoying, though, like when everybody is just wondering, you know, that's the main the main argument. Yes, that is that is you're at the show and you're just going like the whole time. Like, so what are you feeling there? Todd, Todd, somebody does this to you. I would be really annoyed like this. They're doing like this to your face the whole time. First of all, they're not that close. There's there's usually a photo pit where they can't get that close. Some of them they can get that close and they're right there. They don't put it in my face, but they will extend it. And, you know, I appreciate that they're excited and they want to film some stuff. If they want to film a few songs, I have no issue with that. And to be, frankly, honest, they paid the concert ticket. They have every right to film whatever they want as much as they want. When I'm on stage and I see someone. Like, I'm holding myself under my hands so I can't use this. But here's a screwdriver. Let's say they bring the screwdriver to the show. I get it. Go ahead. Being a guy, there was a guy a couple of few months ago and he literally had a had a camera like a camera camera. It was filming and he was holding it. He was holding it like this. I guess I don't need screwdrivers holding it like this. Sorry, like that out like that. And he was literally watching the show through the screen. His head was down, but the camera was tilted up. He filmed the entire show like literally every song. He wouldn't clap because he was holding the camera. And I said to him two thirds of the way through the show. I go, man, this guy's going to have the show on YouTube before we're even off the stage. Yeah, I go, hey, man, I go, don't watch the don't watch the show through the screen. You're right here. You're here. Watch with your eyes. Don't look through the screen. I mean, I think that like for like a few, you know, minutes or whatever, just to document like, you know, I'm at Iron Maiden and I just want like a momentum, like, you know, a momentum to just like a souvenir. Like, you know, oh, I can go back and watch it and go. I remember that I'm with you, Zeus. I'm exactly like that. And then, you know, but the people that are just on it for the whole thing, like, are they even going to watch it again? I think there are tons of videos on phones that nobody ever watches. You know, like when we when we did our last headline run, you know, we were we were closing the show. The encore was it was three songs. I can't remember. Deliverance, I think it was Deliverance, Queen of the Reich. And Roads to Madness, that was a special encore with Roads to Madness and Deliverance that hadn't been played in 30 plus years. And like, you know, if you went on YouTube and filtered it for like this week, you would see multiple of the entire show. And you're like, you know, you blew the intro. Everybody can see there's no surprise. You just ruined it. And for me, it's it's disrespectful. Like if you want it for yourself, why do you have to upload it to YouTube? Why do you have to be that guy that's like, look at me. I'm the I'm the guy that got the entire show. If somebody wants to film a few songs, great. In fact, I'll even take their phone. Even if somebody annoyed, it's I'm not saying I do this to people that annoy me, but even if somebody is annoying me with their phone, I will take their phone, let me have the phone and I'll grab it and I'll turn it around and I'll film them so that it shows they're the ones in the audience. I'll pay in the audience. Everyone's cheering. And then I do a lap around the stage getting up close and some of the guys will make a funny face and I'll and then I'll hand it back to them. And I try to turn it into a positive thing to where it's like, you know, I'm not going to I'm not going to tell you to stop filming. I'm not going to I might say, hey, man, you know, like, don't look through the screen. Watch watch with your eyes at the people really in front of you. But it's super annoying when I see somebody holding a camera the entire show. It's very annoying. But I've done this so so long. But you know what, Todd, it even gets even worse than that. Yeah, going I don't let it affect my performance. They're not going to get inside my head. But at first I'm going, oh, God, this this guy, he's filming the entire thing like, come on, dude. And then I let it go. I don't let it affect my my performance or my night or anything like that. You're look at Chris says here, Chris says, a friend of mine went to see the headstones. It's a Canadian band up really close and Hugh Dillon, who's a singer, took the phone and tossed it. But Hugh Dillon's a real punky kind of guy, too. If you know who he is, I do know he is. He's the kind of guy who would do that. Now, what is the liability here? I'm a fan. Let's walk through this here. I would I would it would be very well known that I'd probably I'd probably sue the artist just to be more of a pain in his ass for damage to my property if I didn't if I didn't lunge on the stage and try and beat the shit out of him, because that's somebody's property and you don't have a right to do that. Well, I guess it goes both ways, like Todd's saying, right? Like you can't jump up there. They shouldn't be able to take your stuff and toss it. But some some bands have have made policies where zero recording is allowed. It's it's our show. We don't I think the food was at the food didn't tool do that. I think tool like made you like your phone or something. Somebody did that. I was at the same Dream Theater show where I had second row and I couldn't see anything. Well, that show, they didn't allow cell phones after I think the third song, right? So you could sort of film the first three songs and then the security were there and they're saying, put it out, put it out, put it out. But you can't control like two, three thousand people. That's the problem, right? And especially the people way up there, they're they're going to. But it's a good policy. It should be the security people enforcing it versus the artist. But you know what? Grabbing a fan's cell phone. Is way more disrespectful than a fan being super excited and filming you. Yeah, you ought to be thankful that they're that excited that they want to put you on their camera and film and record. If you grab their cell phone, you're a douchebag. All right. All right. Well, you know, to me, it's it's an interesting marketing thing. It's at first I remember that when the cell phone filming shows was sort of taken off, they didn't know how to control it. They had a hard time understanding. OK, how do we control this? So then the marketing and the PR people said, you know what? Let's not try to control it. Let's use it to our advantage. Like kind of what Todd's saying, let everybody film it, post it on Facebook. It's all free advertising because one person has, I don't know, 600 friends and another person has another 600 friends. So that's 30 friends on Facebook. Well, actually see it, but that's beside the point. The point is it reaches a lot of people. And you know what? Strange enough, it helps ticket sales. It does help ticket sales. I've seen it. You know what else back back then, right? Like if we saw any kind of live performance footage, it was put out by the band or the label. So it was it was exactly the way that they wanted with corrections that needed to be made if they need to be fixed and things that weren't so hot. And now it's all about the live performance. If you're having a sucky performance, the whole world is going to see it. So what it forces the artist to do is really try to be on their game every time. That's a very good point, Todd. That's an excellent point. Look, I I'm not going to name the band. Yes, or bands. Very old footage of certain people thinking that this person was the greatest of all time. And a lot of those things were corrected back in the day. And now you got to own I sounded like shit there. I did not do well. And you also can own your successes where that's real. That's the real deal. And, you know, but I think if I think it forces people, people that have integrity and really care that they really need to be mindful and be on their A game because there's just cameras everywhere. And it's going on. Oh, I got I got a big question next. OK, it's not a question. It's it's more of a comment. Zeus. And you probably know this better than anyone else in the 80s and the 90s. Well, we saw these concert footage that was presented by the band or released by the band. When we watched them back to go, man, the band was on fire. Oh, the band was great. How much of that do you think is corrected in the studio? Because the books that I'm reading, yeah, everything was corrected. It's all people don't understand. So the bands playing live, it's filmed. Just and we're talking about the 80s now. The band is filmed playing live. There's, of course, an audio feed. There's multiple tracks. So when you go into the studio, you can actually remove the guitar parts and replace them or enhance them or fix the mistakes. Vocals can be completely redone. And when you watch that live footage of the band that you love in the 80s, why does it sound so good? Why does Zeus maybe want to just speak to that? Well, you kind of already said it like they would go back in the studio. Like I was reading an article about Ozzie, you know, and it was Speak of the Devil. And like he overdubbed all those vocals apparently on that and growing up. I remember that was one of my favorite, you know, live records, you know, other than like Kiss Alive 2 and those and Maiden and stuff. So the Maiden stuff always sounds legit to me. I guess you know what freaked me out was when I heard that like live after rush exit stage left was manipulated in the studio. OK, well, I always thought, OK, Rush, you know, integrity. Right. Right. And then you hear like exit stage left from the producer saying that it was manipulated a lot of it was. But I think there's there are there is some, you know, authentic concerts that were maybe they're punching in certain parts that were kind of not great, but, you know, especially with vocalists, you know, I've seen some things of look how great the singer is. And then when you microscope it, the sink, oh, it's a sinking thing. You're like, it's not a sinking thing because it's dead on. Everybody's dead on. This is not a sinking issue. This was an overdub and, you know, but those are secrets that people like to keep safeguarded and protected. And like I say, back then, somebody left a comment here that said something about backing tracks. Oh, that's another topic altogether. What I mean, I can give you one example like one of the Rob Zombie records that I that I mixed, one of the live ones, nothing is fixed. And you know, you know, exactly. And Rob was basically like. Everybody already recorded it on their phones. It's already out there. Like, you'd know right away if I fixed everything. So we let everything go like and there's no fixes. Guys, I've spoken to many producers over the years that I've done this show and off the record, I could tell you a lot of the favorite albums that you know and love are a lot of fixes on those live albums off the record. I'm not going to start naming names. But you are right. There's a lot of them that are on some of them stripped down to like the drums, right? Yeah. And everything is redone. Yeah, that's not a live record anymore. It's like I would rather hear some flubs and, you know, maybe the singer cracked there or didn't hit the best note or but I know it's real. I don't know. I always thought live after death was pretty authentic because Bruce isn't hitting everything perfect. And it just sounds live to me. You know, I'm wondering what they if anything, if they would have fixed anything on that record, that's one that we I would love to look into. I asked Paul Diano about Made in Japan. And I think they're just little tweaks here and there. Yeah, little tweaks, little tweaks like you might hit a couple of bum notes. You can remember some of the guys are running around. You know what I mean? And you know, like hit a bad chord or something. Yeah, but I think live after death. I think they're again, I can't prove this. But from what I hear is there were some fixing going on there, too. There was like a little bit of manipulation happening. But again, I'm not I'm not stating this as a fact. I'm just just throwing out. But redoing the entire everything is kind of like, all right, you know, come on. You know, I mean, cheap trick, you know, live at Budokan, you know, apparently, apparently, you know, it was basically redone. The whole album was redone in the studio. And you hear a lot of that today. Like you hear a lot of that information coming out today, because back then we didn't have the internet, we didn't have access. And now the producers are retiring. So they kind of spill the beans a little bit more, right? Somebody wrote any any plans for a Queens Rite live album? Well, speaking of live album, I mean, right into the studio, Todd, get right into the studio. Yeah, I mean, a TLT era Queens Rite live album would be I think would be cool. Guys, this is true. We have so many. We have every show live recorded since we since Fates Warning came out with us in 2019. So we have a lot, you know, a lot of material recorded from every live show we have multi track recorded that way. If we ever want to put something out like that, we have the actual recordings. Go ahead, you're going to say. Yeah, Paul Diano's hell over hell over Waldrop was a no overdubbed live album, if anybody knows that is. And you know what? It was just more of a sort of like an equalization of the mix that sort of brings out sort of the better quality, right? Or balancing the audience versus the instruments. And what about that? Like balancing? It's really difficult to put enough audience there, Zeus, compared to the music, right? That's a delicate balance that that's a that's a great thing that you just brought up because my thing whenever I mix live records is I like to have a lot of the audience ambience in the in the mix. OK, otherwise, when you turn it off and I've done it, you know, it's shown people and it just sounds like the studio record, but like recorded, you know, live, you know what I mean? Where but there's no nothing special about it. It just doesn't have that 3D sound to it. And that's where it gets tricky, where OK, that this guy redid all his stuff because there's still a little bit of the real stuff left in the audience, Mike's, you know what I mean? So sometimes there's only so far you can go with bringing that into the mix. It's tricky. It's very tricky. I mean, live records aren't really that those are tough. Like I've done, you know, a few of them. And but I always like to like when I was doing one with Rob Zombie, he's like, I like it how like it sounds like you're standing there watching the band and it sounds like you're there. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm going to give you another little secret here. A Yuli Yuli, John Roth, the Tokyo tapes. He told me and you could watch this video if you like, I'm not lying about this. He told me they borrowed the audience from Frampton comes alive and they put it on Tokyo tape. Yeah, he told me this. This is on record. This is I didn't say this. He said they peppered in. Now you have your dirty little secret, Jimmy. Yeah, yeah, they peppered in the crowd, man. They peppered in the crowd. It's the same crowd from Frampton comes alive. You've got to listen for that. Hey, Jimmy, you've got to find that one whistle in the loop that just keeps coming back. Right. That's true. Where's that coming again? Tad, you're one 20 second mark. Todd, my buddy Tanvir in the UK says if right doesn't tour the UK, he's going on a right strike. Well, right. Strike. That's good. Tanvir, I could see him right now. And he's he's serious dude, man. He's going to build those posters and everything. Go to Parliament Hill or something. I don't know where the O2 and just right strike. Yeah, hopefully we'll get to think we're, you know, we're trying to get something for next year for Europe and hopefully the UK as well. We'll see. OK, that's that's the typical answer, right? The artist answer. Look, we'll see. Well, I can tell you there are things happening, but I don't know. I don't know what's working. All right, how about a band that isn't really arena big, Jimmy? But they got the arena crowd in their life. They're like. They got like, you know, or scorpions live like crowd going on and they're like a little club band. Oh, boy, I can name a few of those. And I can name a couple of those. But Zeus, what else do you got going on? Just tell us, you know, maybe just promote whatever you want to promote right now. I'm working on a Shadowsfall record. I just finished a witherfall record. Um, I'm mixing some stuff for D.D. Verney right now. Nice over. Yeah, some of his solo stuff. Um, a lot of all kinds of stuff going on. Working with Rob Zombie on some new material. Nice. What's it like working with Rob Zombie? It's awesome. It's intense. Is he like intimidating? I mean, not really intimidates me. My wife loves Rob Zombie, by the way. I mean, you just you just work and get shit done. And I don't know, man. He's the real deal. He's the real deal. Man, he's easy. Oh, here's another thing right here. This record is going to be out right here. Spirit adrift. OK. And what is that? Ever heard them? Nope. You should check them out. If you like. I would say real singing, a lot of guitar playing. I don't I don't really know offhand how to describe it, but just check it out. Is it classic? Is it classic traditional metal or is it more metal? No, it's more classic traditional style metal. OK. Does he sound like Todd LaTorre, the singer? No. OK. Not a not a high like high singing type of guy. He's got more like a baritone, a lower voice that we're singing with the door. I mean, mid range, mid range, I would say. Mid range. OK. But if like if you like old Metallica, like you and old Iron Maiden and stuff like that, like you would probably dig this stuff. OK, so we'll call that new wave of British heavy metal sound. I guess a little bit. I defined it for you. Yeah. But what's some American isms in there? New wave of American heavy metal. There's a there's a term. Well, that's already been used. That was that was actually used back in the the second wave of. Yeah, there you go. Of American heavy metal. I'm not going to wear my hat. There's a Denise commenting that says no one sounds like TLT. TLT. You like that, Todd? Yeah. But you can't see it because the way I'm positioned, right? Well, it's good, dude. Yeah. This way, if I want to look like a director, I'll do that. Yeah. Yeah, I like what you say. I like it. I like it. OK. Guys, on that note, thank you so much, Zeus. Thank you so much, Todd, as usual. Yeah, man. Thanks for watching. I like TLT. I like that that sort of acronym TLT. I like that. You know, I mean, that sounds my initial. Yeah, what's your initial? We'll have to do it again, Jimmy. All right, Zeus, have yourself a great night. My son has moved to Massachusetts. He's very excited. He lives there now in Boston. Oh, nice. I move around the western part of the state more towards Springfield and Hartford, but not too far from you. Cool. Yeah, Montreal. All right, guys, it's been a pleasure. We'll talk soon. Thanks, man. All right.