 Okay, I think we're back in business. Mr. Cohen, if you could restate For the record your room and we'll go back through that We need to go back to the whole boat Or just does just the motion Okay, let's do that again Make make the motion again make the motion again Let's go back through the boat sure make the motion that we deny the application Applicants request for a certificate of design approval at 117 Lincoln Street Based on the findings that the Driveway is not in accordance with section 17-674 f of the city ordinance and Any modifications or future alterations should be submitted to staff for approval prior to any work beginning their second Second I Assume no discussion since this is a replay if we could have a vote, please Mr. Bach night. Yes, Mr. Brim. Yes, Mr. Cohn. Yes, Miss Fuller-Wilt. Yes, Mr. Savry. Yes Thank you. So you had a question, I think the question is I think under the ordinance it says delineated driveway, so What I would think is you got to delineate That 12-foot of the driveway on it. I guess you just mentioned it Talk we can't talk with I would err on the side of prudence if you're not quite sure I would make sure with with staff just talk with staff, right? Yeah Do I get a copy of that? Of the motion can I get a written copy of the motion? Yeah, the minutes will all be on the record We'll have Thank you Next case, please So this next case is 2307 Wayne Street This is a request for construction of a single-family two-story four-square style home on a vacant lot an Elmwood Park Land unit development or PUD Well, not a part of the Elmwood Park architectural conservation district PUD included a provision that requires that new buildings come before the DDRC for review Under the guidelines that were in place when the PUD went into effect in 2006 Staff finds that the project is generally compliant with these guidelines and is recommending approval with several conditions the first Staff condition is addressed in the facade portion Portion and rhythm guideline which states that building form in Elmwood Park is generally straightforward and unfussy Proposed new construction has a gable over the front porch, which is not found historically on any structure of this style in Elmwood Park Staff recommends that this gable be removed to be consistent with the facade proportion and rhythm guideline In addition while the opening size and placement is generally consistent with historical examples The openings on the right elevation are not or excuse me do not as the guideline recommends reflect the existing Neighborhood to be compatible with this guideline staff recommends that the middle windows on the first and second story be centered on the elevation Lastly for the driveway a material has not been provided and staff recommends using either brick or concrete to be consistent with patterns in Elmwood Park Staff finds that the new construction at 2307 Wayne Street generally complies with the pertinent guidelines from the standards for review of Projects and DP districts that were utilized for review of projects within Elmwood within the Elmwood Park architectural Conservation district at the time of the PUD's creation Staff recommends granting a certificate of design approval with the following conditions The gable on the roof of the front porch be removed the middle windows on the left elevation be centered driveway be brick or concrete and all other details deferred to staff Thank you. I assume the applicant wishes to speak State your name, please Wesley The only thing It's a different style and I do understand that But I would like The gable over the front porch It adds just a little something to the house and although they were slightly different styles It was approved for two other houses. I built on the same street 242 and 2018 Wayne Street That's the one article of consideration The other is with the rhythm of openings in the windows This house is the exact house except for it has a keeping room off of the kitchen as 22 25 Wayne Street, which was approved and built So the window locations and everything else are the same and it was approved before that house is eight houses up the street It's on lot one. This would be on lot eight Of the same street. So I don't really see the issue there So I would like to keep the windows there and as they are Especially on the one elevation saying the center of them up they Couldn't be because it's in a stairwell. The lower center window is in the din blanking fireplace the upper window actually, it's just a full-size window and The stairwell and I would be perfectly fine and happy doing an accent window Which I'd actually we had discussed prior and a meeting on Do you remember the date that you and I met? It was earlier It was back in October, but we had talked about and I was under the impression that we agreed That that upper window could be replaced with a rectangular or a diamond-shaped accent window That would be at about eye level above the landing to the center of the window in the middle of the stairwell I have packets if you want to see the CDA and the approved design and window placements from 22 25 I was probably back in 2014 For everyone to see but aside from that the rest I have no issues the driveway would be concrete Any other details deferred to staff and I'm not going to fight you on the gable, but I would like to keep it if possible Would you like to have the packets that show the CDA and the ones that match that actually that would be helpful if you don't mind That's actually at the back the first two pages are the 22 14 and 22 18 Wayne And they just show the two other structures approved with a gable over the front porch and the last two pages are the CDA for 22 25 Wayne, which is this exact same house minus the keeping room off the kitchen What was the date on this? It's on the packet So Let's see that was that was actually approved in June of 13 This image right here shows the staff recommendation of the windows being aligned is that what you are recommending for this? That's what But that's actually over and in the stairwell, so you couldn't move that window over In any functional capacity to make them align So we've got this I'm a little confused we've got several different images what was actually approved The go to the last two pages. You'll see a CDA an elevation sheet for 22 25 Wayne Street That was what was approved. This was approved. Yes, sir. Okay, that is the exact same house and window configuration As this except for in that we moved and had I was just actually trying to put one up our regular window up top because I've had so many issues with the diamond windows They never come right But any other There and in the stairwell would be perfectly fine for me Be it rectangular in shape or another diamond accent window This one shows these two windows more centered in the elevation than this They're aligned in this picture, which one you're directing this to the front window It looks like the top elevation and what we're seeing on the screen corresponds to this elevation right yes The left elevation there the only thing is that upper window which would be the middle window on the second floor on Left elevation That is the one I was saying to replace and go by with another Accent window as shown in the 22 25 way Well, I guess let me so let me ask you this. Can you do this on that elevation? You can do this Okay, because it's different from that. Yes, just the house is You should be on the very last page These windows that were recommended that you they're more aligned aren't they then what you have here rear windows Yeah, I mean You were saying that it's the same but it this is this what that was approved in on the last page The windows are aligned and here they're not But it says middle windows be centered. That's my issue The upstairs on the right elevation or left elevation second floor middle window Okay, yeah, please That would become an axon that would become that diamond The one on the bottom left of the left elevation what's keeping that from being From those left to be aligned. Well, they'd be in the middle of the fireplace The other window is actually a window in a water closet in the master bath Yes Let me make sure just so that bottom elevation is Corresponds to this correct and Bottom elevation yes to the middle and you do this Well, I can't do with the back window or the rear window. I cannot stack that Window I could take it out or make it smaller But I could not stack I'm just asking if this was what was approved Can you just do this again? Yes, I can actually the same house Well, the diff the only difference but there was no mention of it in here It says the middle window on the left elevation be centered So there's no mention of the upper window you're referring to so I wasn't talking I was gonna leave it as is and change that middle second floor window Drop down into that same diamond Accent window as you see here. All I'm asking is if that's true if this is what was approved in 2015 I guess is what you're saying. Yes This same body and many of the same people were in the room and it was approved I don't see how we would be in a position if you are willing to do that Okay, they're not approved at this time. That's fine. We'll change the bathroom back to the other Oh Well So don't mean to be adverse it by any means so please don't take this that way But the only thing they made mention of was that center window? No, I understand but I'm Let's let's move on from that and so I'm asking you if you can do that you've done it once and it was approved I would just have to change the master bath layout to the other house layout because the layout and this is not the same as the Layout in that right the shower and the Teleburn in a different location, but the rest of the houses But they made no mention of that window only sintering the upper window so you go to So what I would to be clear what I would be asking would be to Get rid of the middle upper window and replace it with an accent window as pictured in 25 wings cda It's pictured where in the cda the one elevations you were just looking at this one Because that upper left window wasn't in question And because this configuration in this house is different from this you wouldn't be able to align those two windows And you do that I can Are we talking about the accent window here? Are we talking about those these time out the bathroom? What I'm trying to what I'm trying to do just to Get to a solid decision is since this was already approved But the bathroom configuration was changed in this in order to accomplish this if it can also be done in this So that we're approving the same thing we approved last time I don't see how we cannot not Approve that it's already been approved once. Okay That's all I'm saying. Yeah, that's why I'm asking the question. Yeah, I Was just wouldn't sure which one you're talking about Sorry, that's confusing me. So yeah Okay, can we approve as is with that middle window that's in question Being dropped down into the same accent window. I think I think that's a different discussion But I think if you can if you can do this then I think we're we would be bound to Approve it if you could do it's already been approved Okay Does anybody Have a About the gable and any comments actually go ahead whatever I think when we Do the motion for this are we talking about aligning this bottom window with this top window? Because I don't feel like we're on there. We're talking about replicating the So the side elevation that was approved Okay Yes, thank you, and we mark it up and Yeah Nothing or something that we can look at marked up. They're all gonna agree on this It's it's this Yeah So it's in keeping with the one to lay out that was approved on Tuesday, June 25th 2013 Yes, okay. Yes, so we can reference back to what was approved And you're comfortable with that Even though that window is never in question And With respect to the gable could we go back and look at that please? Yeah, I think that the design I mean I'm just speaking as an architect I think the design is stronger without the gable, but I don't know Actually, but I don't know what other applicants feel I've to me it seems out of scale with the basic massing of that facade but I Don't have a strong feeling about that. I don't know if other applicant other commissioners. I'm sorry I have any comments about that I think they make a worse I Think it's a less is more. I just I agree in other words Okay, I think I know why you did this you good putting in a concrete driveway Are you good putting in a concrete driveway? Yes? I think We may be ready for a motion Okay, I assume there's nobody here that wishes to speak for or against I'm sure okay You want to make a motion? Yes, I could try Wait 27. Oh, seven 23 a 7 I Move that we approve the certificate of design approval Or 20 307 Wayne Street in the Elmwood Park PUD With the following conditions that The gable on the roof of the front porch be removed But the window configuration match that of already pre-approved In 25th 2013 2225 Wayne Street window configuration The driveway be brick or concrete and all other details defer to staff second any discussion The vote please mr. Bach night. Yes, mr. Bram. Yes, mr. Cone. Yes, Miss Fuller-Wilt. Yes, Mr. Savory. Yes, thank you Next case, please This next case is a request for a certificate of design approval for construction of a single family two-story Italian it influence home on a vacant lot in the Elmwood Park PUD Staff finds that the project is generally compliant with these guys. Could you speak up just a little or something and slow down to speak up a little bit Thank you I'll start over them This is a request for a certificate of design approval for construction of a single family two-story Italian influence home on a vacant Law in the Elmwood Park PUD Staff finds that the project is generally compliant with these guidelines Just a little louder and is recommending approval with several conditions The facade proportion and rhythm is generally consistent with the guideline with this guideline As a proposed structure reflects the form proportion and basic detailing of gable front and wing residences in Elmwood Park Traditionally these homes have a full-width front porch that are simple rectangular forms However, the applicant has altered the basic form of the porch creating a porch that is more complex and historic examples in the proposed design Projecting gable over the entry stairs creates an inconsistency in the front plane of the porch Which is not consistent with historic examples in the district or this guideline Staff recommends removing the gable and that the porch have a consistent front plane In addition the detailing of the structure is not consistent with historic examples The proposed design features corbels which staff has not been able to find on any historic examples within the district Staff recommends that the corbels be removed in order to be consistent with this guideline The guideline for opening size and placement states that the rhythm of windows and doors and structures should reflect that of the existing neighborhood Construct new buildings so that the relationship of width to height of windows and doors and the rhythm of solids walls to voids Doors and window openings are visually compatible with historic buildings in the area Avoid large expanses of blank walls on the front and side elevations visible to the street While their proportion and rhythm of openings on the facade is generally consistent the side elevations are not consistent with historic examples On the left elevation There is a large expanse of blank wall as a result staff recommends that an additional window be placed on the first floor Close to the facade and in line with the window on the second floor The right elevation will require more alteration to be consistent with this guideline Staff was provided with a partial rendering of the right elevation which includes several changes from the original plans This rendering will be staff's focus as it comes closer to meeting this guideline In addition to the changes made on this rendering staff recommends that the windows on both stories Closest to the facade move back several feet In addition the second windows back from the facade should align The group windows towards the rear of the first story will be minimally visible due to a six foot privacy fence The applicant is proposing While variation in size between windows on the first and second story is consistent with historic examples All windows on a single story should be the same size with the exception of accent windows such as the triple windows featured Staff finds that the new construction at 2313 Wayne Street generally complies with the pertinent guidelines For the standards of review of projects and DP districts that were utilized for review of projects within the Elmwood Park architectural conservation district at the time of the PUD creation Staff recommends granting a certificate of design approval with the following conditions The gable on the roof of the front porch be removed and the front of the porch beyond a single plane The corbels be removed an additional window be added to the first story of the left Elevation to align with the front window on the second story The rendering provided for the right elevation be used with the following changes The windows on both stories closest to the facade move back several feet The second windows back from the facade should align All windows on a single story should be the same size with the exception of accent windows The driveway be brick or concrete and all other details deferred to staff Thank you Applicant wish to speak Yes, I have one question for clarification With you say accent windows are you considering the triple window over the kitchen sink? Yes The other thing I would like to say is Given the given her packets of other properties that have already been approved on the same street through the same designer view board And I do not want I'll go ahead and say I do not want to change an elevation to one of these however Each individual detail is used to just to illustrate that the same exact thing has been done multiple times before Or at least once before And I would like to use that precedence to approve the plans as is if you look at the very first page Those are the elevations that were approved for 2301 Wayne Street, which is two houses down When we're looking at it, you'll look at its right side elevation that was approved and As is with the windows that close to the front So that takes care of that issue the other with the segmented windows not stacking in the middle And the only huge difference is that double window on the back But if it's if I'm correct, it's my understanding that you guys are okay with the twin window on the rear Okay, so they are so that's not an issue. So in my opinion and the fact that this elevation has been approved there before with the same issues that are being brought up as Non-contributing now I would say that the elevation has is is fine That would be the motion I would go to on the opposite elevation, which is the on this house Is the left side elevation? There are other the other examples in the small packet that I show you Show a large expanse towards the front of the house. Could we go to the corresponding elevation on the application? Okay, great That would be the elevation that takes care of We had agreed on everything except for the placement of the front windows So you're proposing this in that elevation? Yes, you're proposing this which that was submitted I'll pass it around just This one was previously approved No, sir, that's what we moved windows around with the draft that's been previously sent to that's what I Would like to do the only issue with that actual Window configuration is that they in that configuration the front windows at the front of the house would still aren't moved back a couple feet However in 2301 Wayne Street was approved with the windows in the same Location as what I'm proposing Okay, so similar This all gets a little confusing so what you're proposing this and The basic difference with this is that Looking at the top elevation on the screen up there the far right to windows first and second floor are Eliminated is that right? I think that's that's the difference. I think the far right hand the far window on the right-hand side And the bottom and you're changing the bottom window that bottom window the two bottom windows are changed to one Yeah, but this is a double window You got the drawing shows the stuff in the room beyond Oh, yeah, it's a twin window. Yes, sir and part of the staff recommendation was to take these two windows that are furthest to the left and Move them further to the right Well, yes, because the upstairs is there in a bedroom and then you have no At that point you would have downstairs. That's also another bedroom can staff speak to Why this was proposed and I mean we approved it. I'm assuming but why that wasn't an issue on 2301 As far as it being in accordance with the guidelines I'm not sure We We may not we may have not followed the staff recommendation completely. I don't really remember I do vaguely recall that there was a lot of discussion and compromise with I Think if I've got the right house, I think I recall that and that project we left the front windows can you read the part of the guidelines that Indicates that the windows should not be so close to the front of the house on the on this facade The guideline is that the rhythm of windows and doors and structures should reflect that of the existing neighborhood construct new buildings that their relationship of width to height of windows and doors and the rhythm of solids to voids are Visually compatible with historic buildings in the area avoid large expanses of blank walls on the front and side Elevations visible to the street Well, I think I think the house, you know, you never see things in elevation. You see things always obliquely and so It would look better if the windows moved just in the sense that it would give you a stronger more established Corner on the house of just in terms of how it would look I agree with and I would say in terms of marketability and that's in respect but that's been on neither here nor there for us but It would look better From the corner as you approach the house if those windows moved a little Pardon me, they're all narrow lots. So you never there's 15 feet between That house and the house to the right of it. So you still see when you're in the driveway and looking up And it same configuration was approved before so that's what I would like to stick with That's okay. What else on the other was on the opposing elevation. So the The other side elevation so the same sheet you're on Which is the left elevation the left elevation that upstairs window I would like to just they wanted to put two windows up front, but there are a lot of houses that have a similar configuration Historically and that were built prior to the ones in the packet that I gave you are three examples And I would like to do an accent window over the stairwell because the stairwell is right there on that side of the house and it would just That's looking thing would be another large diamond window stairwell similar to what actually was Approved for 20 301 Wayne. Let's just make sure We understood Well, it's obviously going to be different from this somehow it's going to be different So are you proposing to put an accent window directly below that window that's furthest to the right to take that window out and Halfway down And the staff recommendation was to add a window directly below the window that's shown on the elevation So why would you take that window out that's on the second floor? That was just a window and there's not really room to put an accent Could you not move that window? Further to the right and place an accent window directly below it. It would be you'd obviously have the room in the stair I could do one over the stairwell, but not directly Well, what I'm asking is is that top window top right window? Could you move it further to the right and then also place an accent window directly below it? I? Could do an accent window, but I could not do a full-size window Was that again? Why can't you do that there? We're the big why can't you put it there? There's a landing But so the stair has a small set of stairs and comes up So let me ask One step at a time. The first thing is the top right window. Could you move it further to the right? Yes, that window is okay. So you could do that Then could you do an accent window directly below it at some elevation? Sure, that would be compatible with the with the rise of Which is replacing that well, it's not the it's not the same I mean it's just not the same draw Well, so I'm at I'm just asking if you would be willing to it's just not the same Well that window before was moved up for closer to the front of the house and over the stairwell and that took care Well, would you you've shown this? I'm the only thing I'm suggesting is that you include an additional small accent window If you can do the two things Can you do the two things that I'm but you could do this you could move that window to the right? Drop an accent window like the diamond window directly below it Like I'm doing a lot of giving for a lot more expense as well Whenever the same exact window configuration up a side stairwell with an accent diamond window has been approved multiple times before Well, I don't I mean we We're talking through this, but I I don't the only thing that we would be asking is that you add an accent window Yes, look at 2214 Wayne. I see and And That is a very similar configuration to what it would be there that house was approved. There are multiple ones in the name We're not under any any obligation to 2225. It's the same. So it's it's the facade's difference. So yes but the placement and orientation of the window and the expanse of The actual facade of the house is tricky. You can't we can't be cherry-picking pieces. I think Trying to help you work through this Yeah, there's parts of it. We're not In agreement with staff to think trying to find some common ground My only issue is the fact that you take that same you take a if nothing can be replicate The guidelines do not state that things have to be directly replicated for what's there and in the neighborhood It's to take a presence of what is there so proposing would be I don't mean to interrupt But let me ask let me get this straight. Are you saying that you're not willing to do What I was just asking or proposing I'm saying I would prefer to do a diamond Over mid portion of that stairwell drop down. Is that something that I don't can I make sure are you asking to put the Accent directly under the I was asking to move that right window further To the front and then drop an accent window also directly below it. Okay Okay, you break up the And that would look that would look much better on this particular facade than what you were proposing Well, let's keep on moving then see where we end up What's the next what was the next issue Main issue was the only issue on this house was Gable over the front You have no issue taking the cable off And the corbels you're fine without the corbels Well, that'll that'll save more money than the accent window will cost Okay, so we move through those others all right And then you're proposing this facade that's correct And how do we identify what this is she has it Actually in the packet that's linked online In just in terms of emotion will refer to the color render delegation that was in the In the packet is there an address for this one That was just that whenever We Megan and I met and then after that I was sitting with the draftsman We're trying to deal with the floor plan to come up with a couple of the window configurations So I shot her a few options. Okay, and then that was the one we were closest to agreeing on I think you've done a great job down there. So I feel like even with these modifications Every everything you built in there's gonna look great anyway. Yeah Does Anybody want to make a motion? Tell me one more time why you don't want to move those windows in Are we key? Are we able to stay with that elevation there? I'm asking this elevation still has the Windows really close to the corner is tell me again why you don't want to move them in a little bit There's no bed at that point and the exact same location off the corner was approved at 2301 Wayne Street So the front is just because of that corner It would just look better if they could come in a little Do you want me to make a motion? All right, I move that we request a certificate of design approval for 2313 Wayne Street in the Elmwood Park PUD with the following Conditions that the gable on the roof of the front porch be removed And that the front of the porch be in a single on a single pane that the corbels be removed that the that Which one is the left of Haitian This the this that would be the bottom one here. Okay, but the on the left elevation that the top right Window be moved further to the right and that and a accent Window be placed directly below it to Align with the stair on the interior as required That the right elevation be per the colored rendering that was in the Packet that we received that wasn't reviewed that doesn't show up here as different from what's there I Think in that the driveway be brick or concrete in that all other details are deferred to staff And I get a second second Did I get everything? Did you use the words recommend of granting the certificate of design approval that anybody here? Yeah, good. Okay Okay, does everybody think I got everything Okay And it's been seconded could we have a vote, please? Mr. Bach night. Yes, Mr. Brim. Yes, Mr. Kohn. Yes, Miss Fuller-Wilt. Yes, Mr. Savory. Yes Thank you. Thank you. Thank you I think that's the last application do we have any other business it's a mystery Do we have any other business? No, we don't motion to adjourn Second second all in favor. Aye. Aye adjourned