 Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Discover 2016 Las Vegas. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for HPE, HPE Enterprise Discover 2016. This is SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE. It's our flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante. Our next guests are Colby Dice, Marketing Director of HPE, Eucalyptus and Cloud, and Bill Franklin, CUBE alum, VP of Eucalyptus Business at HPE Enterprise. Welcome to theCUBE, welcome back guys. Thanks, nice to meet you. We'll shake hands on that one, good. I want to shake your hand because you've been through the evolution of HPE. You've worked for all the guys who were spearheading the cloud, going back four years or so. And we've seen the evolution. Deeree Singh now at Cisco, and then Bill Hilf and then had a public, had a little bit of public, private, hybrid. Sargal, I was in there for a while. He's now running the NFV, communications, business solutions. But ultimately, the quote, cloud strategy buzzword, people, the press would ask you guys, what's your cloud strategy? Like, it feels like an answer. Has more, but still early. I want you to comment, take a minute to comment Bill, specifically around HPE's cloud strategy and why now the wave is still here or maybe to squash some rumors or conversations that people say HPE's late to the cloud. Yeah, well, I think it's a great question. I think in HPE's instance, we originally, when I joined HPE almost four years ago, we had a public cloud, but we also had cloud system and a variety of different products. We were doing a bunch of stuff with OpenStack and still are. But the bet that HPE made at a fairly early stage was it was all going to be about hybrid cloud. And we were sort of the, you know, the heretic, the redheaded stepchild, because everybody was going, oh, it's all going to be in public cloud. But the actual fact of the matter is, be it for data sovereignty issues, compliance issues, security issues, ego issues, people want to keep some data private. And before we were talking, Dave and I were talking about the aspect of, you know, a lot of this cloud stuff is really about all the data. And the data can be huge. People are building data warehouses, data sovereignty issues. So this hybrid aspect allows you to place the workloads where you want. If it's, if you're using Amazon public cloud and Amazon doesn't have a data center in that country, you might do a private cloud instance. People might have OpenStack on a private sense and they're bursting to AWS. So it's all about blending all that together. And I don't think we've moved off that course terribly, but the industry has changed a lot. So the core strategy, we will give you guys props at what you guys were right with hybrid. And VMware was there too. You got to give the elsewhere credit on that. He called multi cloud as well as hybrid. But now the cloud strategy seems to be getting a clear line of sight around where it is ultimately going, which is multi cloud. But integration now is a huge discussion. So thoughts on how cloud fits into a customer who says, hey, you know what, I'm going to have a bit of everything for the reasons you mentioned data sovereignty. But how the hell do I integrate this thing? What should I do? What are you seeing out there in terms of just the guiding principles around, okay, it might have multiple clouds around specifically integration. Yeah, that's a great question. A variety of ways. And I'll touch on part of it and I'll let Colby finish part of it. But I think one of the ways is people who've started to go down the Amazon path, when they come to HP or they come to anybody, they've already made the decision that they want to be consuming things. So a lot of that integration is around integrating with services because they don't want to stand up infrastructure. So in that case, Eucalyptus is a private managed cloud fits into that category. In other instances, they're using platform as a service, they're using containers, they're using a variety of technologies to integrate and really break loose from individual implementations. I don't know if you'd... Yeah, well, I'm just thinking about the integration challenges that our customers are having. You know, they want to go to the cloud. They're adopting the cloud, but it's kind of fragmented, right? It's its own little bit. They still have their traditional IT and their traditional applications and all their traditional data. It's a bit of a challenge. I think we're seeing customers now starting to understand how to develop cloud native apps while still using the older data, wherever it exists. But that blending, the blending that I think they're struggling with is really around tracking how to monitor everything that's happening in both these environments. They want to take an old style approach to a new platform. And that's a transition. It's a mental shift. It's a cultural shift that has to change. When a customer says I want to go to the cloud, what are they really saying? Aren't they saying I want to change the way I operate, change the way I service my business, service customers? Entirely. What are they really saying there? Yeah, it's... So I refer to it as a lot as cloud is the third revolution of computing, mainframe being the first client server, being the second and cloud being the third. And if you think about what happened in the revolution moving from mainframe to client server, it didn't just transform IT, it transformed the entire business, right? People who had little access to information now had huge amounts. Cloud really, not only is it changes in how architecture works in implementation and how you integrate it, but it also shifts from, cloud becomes very much more of an OPEX spend if you treat it all as consumed because you're not spending capital. The cost of capital has gone up a lot in the last few years. So when customers are often saying they want to go to cloud, they're talking about not only transforming their IT department, but transforming the corporation in terms of how they consume compute resources, how they use it, how they access it. And cloud allows them to fuel sort of that transformation through agility on the development side, through being able to deploy stuff really quickly, to being able to change their cost structure for it. They enter new markets, they can easily get there. So often when customers come to HPE to talk about cloud and they want to get there, they're often talking about much more fundamental business transformation that they're trying to pull off. And we're trying to enable that transformation much more so than changing what they were doing with a three tier to a multi tier web app 10 years ago. I almost feel like, go ahead. Well, at the end of the day, I think they were just trying to go, they want to go faster. Saying we want to go to the cloud is I just want to move much more quickly. I need to be much more agile. The competition's getting very fierce. We're seeing more competitors show up who don't have infrastructure. They didn't have to think about anything like that. They don't have any of this legacy. And now they're starting to disrupt businesses that have been around for a long time. And our customers have a long standing history, really good strong relationship with our customers. And they want to retain that and continue to offer the innovative capabilities that they're seeing show up. If people talk about waves of change, I almost feel like, and we've talked about this, John, we're entering a third phase of cloud. The first one was, well, let's just try it, mobile apps, whatever, startups. Second phase was during the downturn, people said shift CAPX to OPEX. And now it's about deeper business integration. So what should a CXO know and pick whatever X you want about HPE's cloud? What should they know about your value problem? It's a good question, it's also a tough one. So I would say it's a number of pieces with HPE we're very strong in all of the big cloud place. So OpenStack, AWS, Azure, we're also a pretty significant player in the PaaS space. I know you guys have talked to a number of the PaaS people. And we have a huge pedigree of managing and taking care of really, really large enterprises. So it's often a case where we understand how the enterprise works, we understand all of the pieces. So if I would say a short answer to that, it's deep knowledge, multi-cloud knowledge of your business. And those are generally the three big things customers come to HPE for around it. Because we're trying to solve business, at the end of the day we're trying to solve business problems and the developers and others help produce those business problems quickly. But the approach that they have to take is a bit different. They have to recognize it, it's a completely different way of operating. You're not going through the same models of provisioning resources, even through self-service portals and the way that people have been building them up for a while, right? It's drastically changed now. So you can programmatically get access to the resources and you're expecting the infrastructure to sort of take care of a lot of things for you. I would also say the operating model is changing also there for the economics. And you can put the economic in front of operating and you see that here at HPE Discover, HPE Discover where you're seeing the change of the services, ES going out with CSC, because those are changing the delivery model. So delivery models impacted significantly because if the customers want to operate differently, how you service those customers are certainly will be different. And I think that's something I think Wall Street, I don't think yet understands about what you guys are doing. And the other area I want to ask specifically and we've talked about microservices and Docker prior to coming on just now was the developer community has always been that startup cloud phase one as Dave said and then cloud native kind of phase two. And now you have this third phase of developer, enterprise developer. And we see, for instance, we just had SAP Sapphire where you had SAP developers and they were kick ass on SAP in enterprise. But now with an Apple relationship they're bringing Swift programming language. So you're seeing the confluence of the mainstream app developer or mobile developer, web developer, whatever, together DevOps come together with the enterprise. So question for you guys is beyond Docker, beyond containers and microservices, what is the state of enterprise developers? Where do you guys see that? Because you guys have a view of that because you're touching AWS. You see what's going on internally to your customers who may not be that agile yet, but want to be. Well, I want to comment on one thing that you said at the beginning of that, which was HPE enterprise services and CSC. And where Eucalyptus fits in. So one of the things that Eucalyptus has been observing is people come to us about purchasing Eucalyptus, but they're coming to us because they've already chosen AWS. So they don't want to take Eucalyptus and stand it up on a bunch of infrastructure internally where they are. They want to consume play for a private cloud. So Eucalyptus moved into enterprise services to support that because mostly all the customers want to consume play. And what we find out from the developers in that customer community to answer your question is the profile of the developers really changed in the last, I would say enterprise developer last five years. Incidently. It's a combination of, you know, they show up and they're used to using all their favorite tools, right? And their programming language and other stuff. And being able to swap them out. Yeah, so they'll show up and there may be a corporate standard, but the corporate standards have so now morphed that you have developers who fundamentally, as Colby said, are driven by agility and speed. So if it's I can use this container, I want to use this container technology, but there's this native service on AWS and there's this other thing over here I want to put it together. And loving computer history would got son and HP and IBM into Wall Street at the beginning of the client server revolution was all the smart kids who'd graduated with degrees in physics and computer science and math and responding to their manager and going, you want me to write this on a mainframe? It'll take me a year. Hey, if I can get that son workstation or that HP UX box, I can program this really quickly. And we're seeing that same repetition of history now. But it's happening faster. Yeah, so it's happening at internet speed. So there has to be a corporate standard for off-standard. Yeah, it's a free-for-all. You have to leave it open. You have to leave it open for the developers to move very quickly and to deliver the value. You're seeing, so there was time. The resources wasn't around much. Open source was a second tier citizen back then. Yeah, I know it's definitely first class. And everybody looks to it to grab the pieces, the resources to put them together. Okay, your point was about the developers. Andrew, I'm sorry about that. Yeah, it's just that developers need to have that freedom and the flexibility to move and adopt new pieces without having to wait. Yeah, so if there's a business case, go. Yeah, we'll solve the problem. So where I was going to go with this is, what we're seeing as developers and application architectures are getting more modular. There was a time when we were all talking about service-oriented architecture and we were decoupling or decomposing and then decoupling parts of the applications. And I think that's what we used to say we were doing, but now we see that in earnest. And more and more developers are able to just build it. And so whether they're using staccato, they're using a pass, right? Or they're using containers outright or the services directly from the cloud platform itself, they're able to pick and choose each of the individual pieces, build the modular bit and quickly, rapidly. It's a horizontal freedom, if you will, not to be dogmatic about this is how we do it before. This is just what we use. I think the change, and it's exactly what you just asked Dave about, so the standard is there is no standard. What the really, I would say savvy IT executives are doing is instead of saying you have to use this tool and you have to do this, they're trying to create a culture where the developer community is doing the right thing for the business. So instead of teaching the developer what to use, teach the developer what the right business outcomes are and what's good for the business and let the developers who probably know far more anyway choose the right tools, but make that choice and what's the right thing for the business. And that's the cultural change as opposed to get the project done on budget on time. That's right. And then you're done. And that's a really fascinating thing at HP. We've got such a good relationship with IT leaders, with the folks who need to deliver those capabilities and enable the developers to go and do it. You bring up a good point, Bill. I'm going to drill down on that because there's a thread going around on the internet past month, specifically around developer community, especially in DevOps and mainstream, around how to benchmark a successful project. It used to be activity-based, now it's outcome-based. So if you organize the teams that's on activity, hey, look at all the tasks we've done. They end up kind of like nowhere versus more outcome-based developer process. So not only is waterfall ending or changing. So hasn't everybody in the business become closer to the customer, right? They're getting closer to delivering value to the end user. Developers are creating new capabilities that are specifically in response to a customer need, right? In a way that wasn't there before. You had multiple layers where you had to get to, you know, I take the requirements and I give it to the developers. That old story. So I got to ask you guys a question since we're getting down dirty on this, it's really awesome. So a customer, because of the way the cloud is enabling because it's kind of horizontal, where data is at the center of the value proposition. Now you have multiple tools for the job. The old, the way it used to be to take a retail app for some customers a retailer. You call the guy up, hey, sales guy, I need a retail app. Come on, oh, we need point of sale, or database, store it, and data center done. Now the same question is different. Yeah, you'll need software for that point of purchase, but that point of purchase is now omni-channel. It's data-driven. Oh, by the way, I need to get data from the other data warehouses that are in different silos. And by the way, that's a DevOps problem, not necessarily a retail app problem. Do you agree with that premise? And if you do, what would you share with people who are facing this challenge? So it's interesting. You talk to, I would say, the really savvy IT managers now, and they'll have a development team of people. And the team has a goal around an outcome. And you wind up, part of it's the, you know, the agile philosophy around it, but you wind up with almost, I don't want to call it silos within that team, but there'll be a guy in the team who's, you know, the data expert, and you know, there may be a woman in the team who's a protocol expert. And, but the team overall knows, well, I got to talk to this data warehouse, and I got to talk to this, and I got to talk to this, and I got to talk to this. And they're building that solution that may be touching 10 or 15 different sort of small applications to deliver that kind of outcome. And it comes back to their tool choice. You know, where there isn't an underlying standard, because these guys at the end of the day are driving for that outcome, and they're going to deal with all the different existent things that are inside the enterprise. What I find fascinating is how they gather all the information that these things are out there in that enterprise. The aspect of discovery of which data warehouses exist, and where is it, and how do I talk to them? That always to me winds up being more of the challenge. And certainly one of the things we just talked with Chris Sellen about on the big data platform is, access to the data in disparate locations is not only critical, but having it move in real time, not so much past or future using analytics, analytics for in the moment now, where they say a retailer fraud transaction potential going on, they need that data fast. And they need that data in a compliant way, because they may, to make a business decision, need to access data that lives in countries where there are data sovereignty issues. So they can look at it, they can analyze it, but the result of that analysis may need to live in a certain place. And developers often do not know that compliance. Okay, we got a wrap, but I want to get you to comment on the final word here. In order to make that happen, we just talked about it's really, really hard to do. How do customers make it easier to get that job done? What should they, how should they organize, how should they be thinking? What's their culture? We have a quick advice for the folks trying to make that job easier. Training, lots and training. Get everyone skilled up, get the developer skilled up, get IT skilled up. You're going to have to transform the way that people are operating. Yeah, and I would, I mean, I would use the word transform the business, which is a significant component of it is training, but it's a new culture to capture all this new IT. Yeah, keep your eye on the prize, get in the business outcome, let that drive and let the tools settle where it is. Colby, Dice, thank you so much. Bill Franklin, here on theCUBE, sharing their insight on the transformation, digital transformation in the world of the enterprise. HPE for Enterprise. This is theCUBE broadcasting live. 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