 So, it gives me great pleasure today to welcome Irene Kahn and Marvie Memmon to present their webinar talk today. They will be looking at retirement. This is an especially important webinar because it is the first webinar that features the public presentation of research findings from a project using CLSA data. So the CLSA data are accessible to researchers who wish to utilize the data and our two presenters today did just that. They access the data for a research project which they will present. Now, it's also important to note that both of our presenters were students when they worked on the analyses of the data. So that's also especially significant when we think about training highly qualified personnel for the future. So, Irene, one of the two presenters, has a master of public service from the University of Waterloo and an honors bachelor of health science degree in health studies and mental health studies from the University of Toronto. And she's been working with employment and social development Canada for the past two years. Marvie Memmon has a master in public service also from the University of Waterloo and an honors bachelor of health sciences degree from the University of Toronto in health, science and psychology. And she's worked with Ontario's Ministry of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure as a policy advisor. And she currently works with the Corporate Services Division of Cancer Care, Ontario. And the title of their talk is Labor Transitions, Retirees Who Return to Work. What's going to happen is both of our presenters will present the talk. After they have concluded their presentation, then we will take questions from the audience. I encourage you to use the chat feature if you have any questions of the presenters. We don't unmute everyone to prevent feedback from interfering with the sound. So we ask that you type in your questions using the chat feature at the bottom left of your screen. And we'll read off the questions after the presentation is over and give Marvie and Marvie an opportunity to respond to your queries. So I'll stop talking now and I'll pass the floor over to our presenters. Thank you both very much for agreeing to present your research results today. Thank you so much, Mark, for that introduction. And thank you, everyone, for joining us today. This is Marvie. I would just like to especially thank the CLSA team for arranging this webinar for us today, especially Laura and Mark for hosting us. So I will be taking you through some of the background motivation for our research and some of the literature findings that we currently have for the Canadian landscape. And then I'll be passing it over to Maureen who will then take you specifically through our study sample or methodology and some of the key findings that we found using the CLSA data. All right. So we're on slide four, just making sure that everybody can follow up with us. So before we begin our discussion today, I would like to just clarify something. In the literature, the phase return to work is frequently used for people who are returning to work either after a short term or a long term disability leave, but for the purposes of our study, we're interested in the labor transition of people who retire and then return to work. So when we are referring throughout as return to work, likelihood or return to work population, it is those retirees who have experienced retirement and then have entered the labor force again. It could be part-time or full-time and we'll go through the specs in a bit. So we know that Canada is experiencing a demographic transition. By 2036, the population of seniors over the age of 65 is expected to be up to 10.9 million, which will be making up 25% of their population. In 2015 and 2021, it will be the first time that Canada experiences an event where those who are 65 and over are surpassing the population of children of age 14 and under. So generally, people are living healthier and longer lives. And so what does this really mean from a labor force perspective? In parallel, we're also observing that there are some changes in people and how they're making their labor force decisions. The retirement landscape for Canadians has been evolving in the recent decades where many of these retirees are returning to work. But there has been very limited literature on why this shift is occurring. And so using the CLSA data, we wanted to learn more about this group in terms of demographics, motivations of the first retirement, and general trajectory of retirement and related decision-making. So particularly today, we want to take you through four key questions. Precisely, we're going to walk you through the demographics. So what does this population look like? Individuals that are choosing to return to work after their retirement. Is it more men versus women? The type of employment they had or the income and education level that they come with, some of the retirement reasons that they had initially stated for retiring the preparations that they had in place for their previous retirements. What are some of the reasons that they are returning to work? Are they compelling reasons or are they more willingness to return for their personal interest? And lastly, what type of employment are they really returning to when they do choose to make that decision to come back to the labor force? So now we're moving to what do we currently know about these individuals? So what does the literature tell us? I'll start with a bit of background on the previous data sources that exist in Canada on labor market participation. We have five major surveys that really help us examine the labor force participation decisions and patterns for Canadians. These are all managed and developed by Steps Canada. And the last three here that you see, the LAD, the LFS, and the SLID, are all administrative data sets. So the definition of retirement varies considerably depending on the data source. The administrative surveys are limited in the sense that we don't learn about the sample's motivation. We only have limited information on their labor force interruptions. And based on that, the researchers working with this data are taking educated guests as to the reason and the timelines of the retirement for individuals. However, like the CLSA, GSS data is where there is a bit more context when we are examining the further reasons for retirement and things similar to that. So in Canada, studies that have looked at self-reported reasons for return to work have heavily relied on the GSS survey in the past. The GSS cycles that have related to retirement trends, the last release was in 2007, so this is the CLSA addition to this population is very interesting. And so we're going to move on to see what we've actually found from all of these sources. There is a lot of literature available on retirees' motivations to retire. So why did they retire in the first place? It's not something that we're interested in particularly, but rather why are they returning to work? So the GSS from the 2002 cycle found that almost one-fifth of Canadians chose to return to work after experiencing retirement. Most retirees that are returning on a part-time basis, sorry, most retirees that are returning are returning on a part-time basis. And it's usually men that are returning to full-time work versus women that are choosing the part-time work when it comes to return to work. And on the same subject, there is a US study that looked at the age at the time of making the retirement decision where should they be returning to work and how that impacts the type of work that the men and women return to. So they found that, overall, men are more likely to return to full-time work regardless of age compared to women. But when it comes to part-time work, women are more likely to return to work only if they're under the age of 65. After the age of 65, men regain the statistical advantage over time and become more likely to return even to part-time work. So this is sort of the line of the theory that men tend to have a stronger labor force pull, the labor force attachment theory that emphasizes that women at times may have a weaker attachment due to various other factors that are ongoing in their lives. So we are on our slide number seven. So overall, we are finding that individuals who choose to return to work are most associated with earlier retirement. So retiring before the age of 60 is highly associated with return to work. Typically, men are choosing to return to work more than women. On marital status, there have been mixed findings where some studies have found that being married or in a common law relationship is highly associated with return to work, whereas others have proposed that it is actually the opposite, again, similar trends in education. However, GSS data did confirm that individuals that are in professional or managerial careers are more likely to return to work because they have higher education levels and higher income levels in turn. But when it comes to specific income level data, again, there is mixed findings. There is some studies that have found that higher incomes are motivating factors to return to work. It may be the type of work that they're in, and there are some that have reported that it's actually lower income individuals that are compelled to return to work. So it's a mixed bag when it comes to those demographic factors. When it comes to the reasons for retirement, financial consideration was found to be the most frequently cited reason up till the GSS 2007 cycle. Very few limited studies have shown that Canadians retired due to early incentives, sorry, early retirement incentives, or if they did not enjoy their work. However, if we now then look at some of the other data that's more recent, the longitudinal worker file, we're finding that people are increasingly choosing to return to work irrespective of their financial situation. So there is a bit of sort of this shift that we are seeing in people's motivation for return to work. And though primarily it may have been just financial, it is becoming a bit more diverse in why people are choosing to return to work. Schellenberg also hypothesized that individuals who retired due to a disinterest in their work may have used retirement as a temporary exit, and then they later return to a new career and to a more satisfying job. So overall, again, we are seeing some very interesting changes. So we're now on slide 10, sorry, slide 11 actually. It's just our last slide on what our current findings have been up to date. And so when it comes to retirement planning, we looked at the demographics, we looked at the reasons, and now we were just touching base on the retirement planning of individuals who retired and then returned to work, so how did they plan primarily for their first retirement or second retirement and then chose to return to work? It's typically those that have good financial planning are the ones that are returning to work. There have been some mixed findings when it comes to having pension plans. So the GSS cycles indicated that having a pension plan and savings and investments were associated with actually returning to work, but the longitudinal worker file from 2015 found that employer pension plans during their careers, so individuals with employer pension plans during their careers were less likely to return to employment than those without the coverages. While the other data sources, SLID, which assessed individuals from 1999 to 2004, found that people with an employer pension plans were more likely to have retired early and best to have returned. So again, very mixed findings, and so what we're hoping is that with the current DLSA data, we get some clarity because there is a great big population that we are looking at, and it's also very recent, and so we are able to draw good evidence. So I'm just going to pass it over to Mary now, who will take you through our study sample and some of the methodology that we employed in our research and some of the very key interesting findings that we have. All right, so it's over to you, Mary. Thank you, Marvie, and thank you, everybody, for joining us today. So now that you guys have learned a little bit about the literature findings, I'll walk you guys through what we added to the literature. So for this study, we used the first DLSA, which surveyed approximately 20,000 participants. And what we relied on was the self-reported definition of retirement and return to work. So respondents were asked, after retirement, some people return to work and later retire again. Have you previously retired and then returned to work? Anyone who answered yes to this question was considered as a sample of return to work, and anyone who said no to this question was considered did not return sample. And people who did not answer this question were excluded from the analysis. Our sample included retirees who retired between 1991 and 2014 and were aged 50 and over at the time of retirement. So this meant that we had a sample of approximately 9,700 respondents, which was representative of about 5.2 million Canadians. And just a bit on the methodology front, we imposed a 50 and over requirement because when we look at the literature, exit from the labor market prior to age 50 is typically not considered retirement, but rather it's considered more of just an exit from the labor force. So we'll move on to the next slide here. We conducted two types of analysis, this descriptive and binary logistic model. I'll try to keep this brief just so the content doesn't become too dry here. But in our binary logic models, we added the variables that Marvie has previously talked about. So we added demographics, reasons of first retirement, preparations of retirement, nature of labor activity prior to the first retirement. And a measure of how adequate people felt their income was at the time of retirement to maintain their standard of living. And we also constructed two separate models for men and women. And that's again, because when you look at the literature, we do see that there are different factors that go into the labor market participation in decisions of men and women. OK, so we'll move to the next slide here. And again, I wouldn't go too much into the detail of the methodology that just for retirement reason and retirement preparation, there were a very large number of categories that were available in the CLSC and respondents were allowed to choose as many responses as they liked. So for that reason, we tried to create some themes around the reasons of reparations. So for example, financial reasons for retirement included factors such as qualifying for pension or financial advantage or financial possibility, whereas what we termed the compelled reasons to be where we found factors like technology advancements, mandatory retirement policy, organizational restructuring, that sort of thing. And same thing for retirement preparations. We kind of tried to group it and see teams. The interesting one that I would point out here is what we termed as perfect retirement preparations. So this is where respondents said that they decreased their working hours prior to retirement or they financially planned sought out retirement information and kind of engaged in other leisure activities, going beyond the financial aspect and looking at having a well-balanced retirement. So moving on to our findings. So for those of you who haven't called, we're in slide 15 right now. So this is just a snapshot of what our sample looks like in terms of demographics. With respect to age of retirement, as you guys can see here in this graph, we found that early ages of retirement are associated with a higher likelihood of return to work. So if you look at the group of 50 to 55 here, that's where we see the biggest difference. And as we sort of move to the older ages 61 to 64, but more so 65 and above, we see that the likelihood of return to work decreases. Again, consistent with the literature in the next graph, we see that men were more likely to return to work. And the next variable that we had marital status, I should actually mention here before I go into it that the information that we had on marital status, education and income was all recorded at the time of the survey. So we don't have information on what the retiree sample had looked like at the time of retirement or at the time of return to work. But this is our attempt to kind of relate some demographics to their decisions in the past and see if there is any relationship. So what we see here is that 70% or over 70% of our sample was married or in a common law relationship. And an interesting finding was that people who were married during the common law relationship were significantly more likely to return to work compared to other marital status groups. Okay. So we move on to the next slide here. Looking at education levels and personal income levels. So in education levels, one thing that kind of was interesting to me and struck me a little bit was that our sample had education levels that are higher than what we would normally expect from older adults. So we see that about 40% of our sample had a bachelor's degree or higher. As far as Bivariate or Discretive Statistics to clear concern, we did find that higher levels of education, bachelor's and higher, was associated with the higher likelihood of return to work as opposed to lower education levels, particularly less than high school, I would say. And when we look at income levels, again, we saw that it was kind of an upper middle class, I would say that the 50 to 100,000 group where it sounds that, actually, I shouldn't really call that a realm, middle class, it should probably just be higher times. That's where we found that people were more likely to return to work if they had a personal income of 50 to 100,000. But again, keeping in mind that this is at the time of the survey and not necessarily at the time of return to work at the time it. So as I said, our sample was approximately a representative of 5.2 million Canadians. And from these, we saw that about a quarter of Canadians had returned to work. So that was about 1.2 million. And if you recall, like Marvie was talking about earlier in the previous GSS, like about a decade ago, what we saw is that 1.5 of the retirees had returned to work after retirement. So we were seeing that sort of increase here. And when we looked at men and women, we found some interesting differences in terms of their reasons for return to work and in terms of the employment that they returned to after retirement. So here what we saw was, before I go over this slide, the overall, the three most commonly reported reasons for return to work were people liked working, people wanted a challenge. And finances was actually ranked as the, I shouldn't say ranked, but was reported to be the most frequent, the third frequent reasons for return to work. But when we look at men and women, we found that men were significantly more likely to have reported these reasons compared to women. And when it came to women, the only factor we found women to be significantly more likely to report was end of caregiving duties. And this was probably because from the previous literature, we do know that women are more likely to men, more likely than men to leave the labor force in the first place to provide caregiving duties. So I'll move on to the next graph, which kind of looks at the post retirement employment. So in these graphs, what we see about men is, sorry, the texture is a little bit smaller, the bottom, the legend. So the blue line is that of women and the sort of greenish is all it is men. So we see that men were more likely to return to self-employment. They were more likely to return to a different employer than the ones that they had prior to retirement. They were also more likely to take up contract work and full-time jobs. Whereas when we look at the women sample, we see that women were more likely to return to the same employer or part-time work and permanent position. So we sort of see this trend here, where men are a little more, if I can say, active in terms of their post-retirement work, whereas women seem to be kind of a bet on the fence that are engaged with the labor market, but not fully committed in the sense of post-retirement employment, all right? So, okay, now moving on to our regression models, which are separated by men and women. Once again, we found that early ages of retirement were associated with a higher probability of return to work. But the interesting point here was that when it came to women, we saw sort of a progression. As age increased, probability of return to work went down. But in men, we didn't find a significant difference between men that were aged 61 to 64 and 65 and over. So in men, later ages seemed to be, I would say, a stronger deterrent to reenter labor market. And as we expected, we also found the probabilities of the return to work to be higher in men, right? When we look at marital status, married and common law was associated with a higher probability of return to work. And what was interesting again was this was particularly the case among men. So if you notice the difference that we found across married and single women, it's about five percentage points. But when we look at the married men and single men difference, that's about 15 points. So three times the that of women. And we have, we've done some thinking on why that would have been, and we looked at some literature findings. And it could be several reasons for that. So one of them, one of the factors that could influence is men who are, if men were married or common law had wives who were participating in the labor market. So it's study in 2008 attributed this effect in the literature to the, because of the shared leisure effect, where what they found is that men do not seem to enjoy their leisure time as much as their spouse is participating in the labor force, particularly at later ages when they choose to return to work. And we know from the literature again that women are often younger than men in marital relationships. And we know that women's employment levels have gone up in the past couple of decades. So it's understandable that we're seeing that bit of an increase in the labor force participation of men. And actually on that same study, there was also a point that men's decision to participate in the labor force actually does not impact women as much. So that was kind of interesting. Another explanation we thought of, it could be health. So there have been some research studies who have shown that marriage confers much more health benefits to men than women. So that's another factor that could be contributing to higher likelihood of return to work in men. As far as the next two factors were concerned, education and personal income, it was a bit difficult for us to reconcile these findings because we don't really sort of see a bipolar relationship that we have previously seen in the literature where if you have a higher education level, it's typically associated with a higher income level and that probably means that you have a strong labor force attachment so you would be more likely to return to work. Or if you have low income or low educational levels, that may mean that you have lower personal income, which means that there would be financial issues which would motivate people to come back. So we weren't really able to reconcile these findings but I suspect that it could be because we don't really have the data right now on where respondents have been working. We don't have information on sectors and industry available. So that might be something that could help us better reconcile this. Right, so I'll move on here to the next slide. Okay, so moving on to how participants engaged in labor force prior to retirement, we saw that working part-time or considered less than 30 hours before retirement was associated with a higher probability of return to work. In both men and women. But this was more so in men. So if you look at the percentage points, again, we saw a difference. We saw about five to 15 percentage point higher likelihood in women. But in men, this went up to 40%. We went to the next slide here, we saw on slide 22. So with respect to motivations of retirement and how they associated with the probability of return to work, we saw that women who were compelled to retire. So again, from the previous slide, it'd be the factors that included technology, dance band and mandatory employer retirement policy. These were all associated with an increase in the likelihood of return to work. And what we found in men is that if they were indicators of willing retirement or if men had retired because of health issues, they were less likely to return to work or they had. So I'll move on to preparations here. Okay. So in terms of preparations, what we saw among women was that if they had an employer pension plan or if they had prepared in some way that appeared to be indicative of a career-changing strategy. So if they had changed jobs or if they had enrolled in an education program, a solid business prior to retiring, they were in fact more likely to return to work later on. But it came to men, what we found is that if they had perfectly prepared for the retirement, so again, if you recall, perfect for retirement meaning if they had decreased their hours, look at other factors other than financial and consider those in their retirement decision, they were less likely to return to work. So those were pretty much all our key findings and I'll just conclude by highlighting some key takeaway messages and sort of just try to bring everything together here. So we found the finances today are the third most frequently reported reasons for return to work, which hasn't been the case with the previous GSS sources that we have looked at. Finances have always been highlighted to be the primary factor causing people to return to work. We also saw that men had a higher probability of return to work, particularly, like I said, married men. And if men had formed, if men had a well-formed decision to retire, if they were sure, if they had prepared in complementary ways, then they were less likely to return to work. But the sample of women seemed to be a little more interesting. We saw sort of two patterns emerging in the sample of women. One of the groups was this group of women who were compelled to retire, so they might just not have been ready and hence they might have chosen to return at a later point. But the second group was this group who had prepared in a way that signified a career change. So it almost appeared like they had decided that they would be returning to work before even, before retiring. And finally, I'll just talk about a few limitations of the study that I think I weren't mentioning, apart from the usual stuff that applied to, I guess, all the surveys, self-reported, and the perspective we call bias, that sort of thing. So as I previously mentioned, the demographic information that we were looking at corresponded to the time of the survey. So respondents may have gone through changes from the time of their retirement to the time of their return to work, to the time of the survey, and we weren't able to capture this trajectory in our study. I would say another key piece of information is to know exactly when retirees return to work. So in the CLSA, we do have information on when retirees return, but we don't have information on when they decided to return to work, at what age. So from the previous literature, we do know that age of the time of return to work is a very important factor that influences people's decision of what kind of work they return to. And another important finding, like I said, for education and income, we weren't able to necessarily reconcile that information. So the data for, so if you had information on industry or sector of work, that we may have been better able to reconcile that finding. So we hope to continue working with CLSA and at that test study. And that's, I would say that concludes our presentation. Thank you very much for listening to us today. And at this point, we can take any questions. I can pass it over to Mark. Great, thank you very much. For, it was a very interesting and insightful presentation. Very much appreciated. Thank you very much for, again, taking the time to put the presentation together and share your results with us. We do have a question on the chat and I'll read it out in just a second. And just to remind members of the listening audience, if you have a question, please do type it into the chat feature. So there's a question from Elizabeth. And she writes that a number of your data sources predate the elimination of mandatory retirement at age 65 in jurisdictions such as Nova Scotia. Have you considered this? And if so, are there any differences in trends pre and post elimination of mandatory retirement? Thank you, Elizabeth, for your question. We weren't able to take that into consideration. And I would say that's primarily because the retirees that we are looking at have, our sample is comprised of people who retired between 1991 and 2014. So it's a big sort of time frame that we're looking at. So we weren't able to take that into consideration. But it's a very interesting question. Thank you. Great, thanks. Any other questions from anyone? So I've got one. And you partially covered it in the limitations when you talk about, for example, how long an individual is in retirement, et cetera, et cetera. You couldn't look at some of these possibilities because the data are cross-sectional. How might that have limited what you wanted to look at because you were assessing everything at the same point in time? Thank you, Mike. So like I said, that we weren't able to see a bit of a trajectory in terms of timing of the return to work. And that I think is very important to consider when we're looking at what kind of work people are returning to. And so in the pre-slip, which I would be astound, is that if people are younger, they tend to return, if they're making a decision at a younger point in their life, they're more likely to consider return to work. So that's one of the things that was a limitation of the cross-sectional studies. If you were able to capture that, that would have been great. Similarly, in terms of education or income levels, we're looking at their income levels and education levels at the time of retirement. And those could be so different from what they were at the time of their return to work. And it's possible that some people might actually have retired in the first place to pursue education. Or like I said, in the women group, we see a bit of a transition where women it seems like women are preparing for career change. So that sort of information, we weren't able to capture that from the cross-sectional survey, which would be very beneficial if we had longitudinal information on. Great, thanks. So there's a couple of questions in the chat, which I'll get to in just a minute. Just one more question for myself. Did you, for some reason, decide not to look at how health data may have affected your whole issue of work? And might that be something to look at in the future? Yes, definitely. We were actually, initially, we were very interested in the health data, but again, the information that was available was only at the time of the survey. That kind of limited us because if people had, for example, retired or returned because of health reasons, and we're looking at their health at the time of the survey, that's not necessarily reflective of their health at a younger age, which I would say was one of the limitations again, like you said, of a cross-sectional study. Great, thanks. From the CLSA's National Coordinating Center, a question, how can your results be used in policy development around labor force participation? Okay, Mervie, would you like to take this question? My colleague here's done more in the policy front here. But from a policy perspective, what we found was interesting about this is that retirees are increasingly returning to work. And we're kind of seeing that there's been some discussion in the media as well that younger people are kind of feeling left out when they feel that they're not being given the opportunities that older people are increasingly returning to work. So then given that sort of thought, I'm still in the process of figuring that out because we definitely want to encourage older adults to return to work. And you know that it has so many positive health benefits associated with it. So we would definitely want to encourage that, but make sure that we strike a right balance in that younger people are not being pushed out. Great, thanks. Could you please comment on the completeness of the income data? What proportion of missing data on income did you have? Could you repeat that question? Yeah, could you please comment on the completeness of the income data? What proportion of missing data on income did you have? So in terms of income, I would say there was a very high maturity of our samples who had responded to the question. So we didn't have, if I'm understanding the question correctly here, we didn't have a lot of donals or refusals in this question. We had this data available for the most part. In our study, we looked at personal income. There was also information available on the household income. But again, since it's a retirement study, we thought that it would be a good idea not to include household income as, at the time of, again, retirement or return to work, it might have been that retirees had a higher, or respondents had a higher income or they were living with young children. And later on, it could be a different circumstances. It could be a different circumstance. They might have been living with older children. And yeah, so in that sense, we looked at personal income. But there is also information available on household income. Great, thanks. I think that Marvie was trying to talk before in response to the policy question. And we couldn't hear her. So go ahead. Thank you, Mark. Sorry, I would just like to add that from a policy endpoint, there is some missing gaps that I think would be really nice to have prior to application of any of these findings. We do know that the return to work is an increasing trend. How will that impact the opportunities for individuals that are in the current active labor force, for example, that are not planning to retire for a very long time? So those that are graduating, does that impact their labor force participation as a key area to consider, in addition, the sector employment? So we know that Canada thrives on different sectors in various provinces. This can be different depending on whether you're in Alberta or Ontario. So in the future, if we do further research looking at what exactly is the type of employment that's reattracting these individuals to come back to work, then labor force planning can be better informed in terms of where the labor force shortages might be most prevalent or where exactly is the need to attract more talent. So the retirement trends can then better be informed given the additional knowledge of sector related employment. Great, thanks. From the National Coordinating Center, why do you think that individuals with higher incomes have a higher return to work? While intuitively, it would be the other way around, lower income people might have a higher need to return to work? I think that's a very interesting question that we also had when we were, that was our initial hypothesis as well, that it would be mostly individuals that were unable to save enough for retirement. And because now they are living longer, it would be compelled to return to work to ensure that they have sufficient income throughout their retirement years. However, I think previous US data has also found a new shape relationship when it comes to income. So there is comes a certain point where, yes, when you're in a very low income population, you may not have had a chance in your working years to save enough. However, when you move out of that comfortable income and when you're moving towards a $50,000 to $100,000, these managerial or professional jobs are often very highly correlated with higher education professionals. And I think those people do choose to retire given the early incentives. There may be a lot of post-retirement opportunities for contract work, which we see is very popular among men that are returning to work. So consulting-based contract work or any work that basically is more so for their self-fulfilling opportunity because we see that financial consideration is not the most important, sorry, not the most frequently cited reason to return to work anymore. We can then now see that it's basically their likeness to work that's forcing individuals back into the labor force rather than necessity based on the return to work. Previously, for sure, we also see that, and like Barbie said, it has a lot to do with the kind of work that you can get after retirement. But we do see that people who have higher income levels typically have higher education levels. And when you have higher education level, you tend to have a stronger labor force attachment as opposed to lower incomes, which are associated more so with lower education levels as well. Great. Thank you. Another question, is there anything in the data about being compelled to retire because of ageism, or if this acts as a barrier to re-entering the workforce? It's a great question. Sorry, come up. Sorry. I didn't catch that. Is there anything in the data about being compelled to retire because of ageism, or if ageism acts as a barrier to re-entering the workforce? OK. Thank you. So that's a very interesting question. Unfortunately, we weren't able to look at that because the options that are available to the dealers to respondents that the option only says if you were compelled to retire doesn't necessarily mention the factors that might have been contributing to that compulsion. But what's interesting there is that in some aspects, we did see that people who said that they reported factors that would be consistent with compulsion of retirement, they are, for example, organizational restructuring or be that mandatory employer retirement policy. That was in some cases apparent in people who were not that old. It was the 55 to 60 youth that sort of reported these reasons to which was quite interesting. Great. Thanks. Another question. The factors you were using to understand the return to work phenomenon are very correlated with each other. Did you take into account this correlation in your analysis? For example, education and personal income are very correlated? Right. Thank you for the question. We did consider that. We did test interactions in our regression models on that. But to our surprise, we didn't really find a huge effect when we looked at these two factors together, which is why we decided to keep them separate. OK. And could the higher income be a result of return to work? It's possible. Yes. Again, this was something that was of interest to us, too. And this is one of the reasons that we are a little bit careful when we're talking about demographic factors here, because demographics do correlate to the time of or correspond to the time of the survey and not necessarily the time of return to work or retirement. So that does limit the analysis in a way. But unfortunately, we do not have a way to account for that. And I would just like to add to that, given the data that we had, we were unable to really tell whether it's the first retirement or the second retirement or even the third time somebody's retired and then they're choosing to reenter the labor force. So there was that limited factor in terms of the type of data that we were working with. And there's only so many sort of connotations that we could pull out from the data, because they're worth missing pieces with what the respondents had been asked to answer. Great. All right. Many of today's jobs are very much dependent on modern technology. Could this be the reason why people with low education and maybe low technology literacy are less likely to return to the workforce after retirement? I think that's a great question and very interesting one. And again, I would like to point this that until we know what sector of employment these individuals are returning to, it's very hard to say whether, in fact, it is the technological advancement of driving these individuals out of the labor force and keeping them out of the labor force or whether it's basically these individuals that are being left out of labor force because of that advancement and then are retraining and then entering. So it's very hard to tell whether those that are entering the labor market are doing the same individuals that had maybe lost their jobs due to advancement or restructuring or are these individuals that just can't keep up. And if I may add, we do know that from the reasons that we have available, we do know that there is a segment of population that is pushed out of the labor market because of technology advancement. Whether that's a group that has low education, I think we would be taking a bit of leap in the logic if you make that conclusion. But definitely, that's a good question and we do see that people are being pushed out of the labor force because they're not able to keep up with the technology. I see, great. Thank you. So are there any final questions? We're nearing the wind-up of the webinar. I don't see anybody typing, so I can assume that there are no more questions from the floor. So Marvie and Maireen, thank you very much for this very interesting presentation. I appreciate very much that you were able to, in a sense, from the perspective of the Canadian Longitudinal Study on Aging, to be, I guess, ground-breakers. Because this is the first time anyone who has accessed our data to do a project has actually presented their results publicly. So it's a bit of a milestone and we really thank you very much for doing this for us here today. Thank you, Maireen. I really, really appreciate you having us here today. Thank you. You're welcome. Great. And just before we go, our next CLSA webinar, this is also a webinar presenting CLSA research findings. It's called Hearing Loss and Healthy Agents, the association between sensory and social measures in the CLSA tracking cohort. It's going to be from 12 to 1 PM Eastern on May 19, 2016. So please, everyone, do register for yet another installment of reporting CLSA research findings. And at this point, thank you very much for joining us today. I wish you all a great afternoon. And we'll see you in a month.