 the meeting to order at 5.58. Hello. First business is to approve the minutes of April 24, 2023. So moved. Any discussion? Okay, so now I'm doing all votes by roll call. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Okay, so should I just call us out in alphabetical order? It doesn't matter. Okay. All right, Jordan. Uh, yay. Gabrielle. Yes. Jamie. Yes. Anne. Yes. Anne. Anne. You're alphabetically correct. Okay. That's that. And then the right of way permit issue to Lewis Porter. The select board tentatively approved this application with some conditions at the last meeting. Those conditions are now outlined in the document. And has everybody had a chance to look at the new document? Yes. Okay. So can I get a motion to approve the application and to authorize, I think, me to sign the right of way permit or are we all signing the right of way permit? It is all of us. So, um, okay. So moved. A second. Okay. That was Jordan and Anne Thulin beached to the punch and Winchester. And any discussion? I have a question. So none of the conditions changed from last time. They did change. We added conditions of that Lewis should put it on front porch forum date and time is all in there. What? But I mean, it's what you said. Oh, yeah, the change between what last meeting, right? And this may not have changed. No. Okay. Good. Thank you. Okay. Um, all right. So I'm calling the role Jordan. Yes. Me, Gabrielle. Yes. Jamie. Yep. And Thulin. Yes. And and Winchester. Yeah. Okay. So that is that I'm going to sign this and pass it on to the rest of you issued on May 8 2020. So sign all these documents and they'll end up down your rows. I'll collect them from rows at the end of the meeting. Okay. Please. No, this is another copy. Also, it doesn't have a permit number on it. Does that matter? That's a critique. It has just a whole the whole folder. Okay. So we're just signing this copy. Yeah. Okay. You can pass the folder down with it. So it all stays together. Thank you. Thank you very much for keeping that all organized. All right. Um, on to signing board orders. What is that? This whole this thing? Okay. Do you want to start with you? Okay. So sign board orders during the course of the meeting. Um, okay. Uh, next order of business. Sam Dworkin has resigned as a 911 core coordinator. And we have another applicant who is able to begin the work immediately. Um, so, um, and that is Mark Whitman. Hello. Hello. Thank you for being willing to be 911 coordinator. Um, so let's see. Um, do we need to do anything other than approve that and Winchester? We do not. You might like to say hello in California. Yeah. Are you in California? Are you in California? That was Mark Whitman asking you. I guess I'll just introduce myself. I've lived in California for a while. Um, I especially after the old select order it seemed there was a lot of work to do. I couldn't be someone like you guys. I didn't have that kind of time or commitment, but I wanted to help in some small way. And this fits perfectly. Um, because I like maps. I like math. Um, I like sending emails. And that's basically what this seems to be take out. And I can send the emails on my own time. Um, and it turns out I have fabulous support from the guy at the state double checks everything. He will write me back at 10 30. He's amazing. Um, so I guess that's it. Okay, that's great. Well, thank you so much for, um, you're willing us to do it. Sure. Yeah. You're welcome. I'm happy to. Okay. So, um, all right, uh, do I can I get a motion to appoint Mark Whitman and one coordinator? So moved. Second motion and a second. Um, any discussion? Thank you. Okay. I'm calling the role Jordan. Yes. And Gabrielle. Yes. Jamie. Yes. And Hulan. Yes. And Anne Winchester. Yes. Okay. Thank you. All right. Next up, the East Montpelier fire department fire truck loan. In March 2022, the voters authorized the select board to borrow up to 66,667 for a term not to exceed five years to pay for our one third share of a new fire pumper for the East Montpelier fire department. Callas did not receive the loan because at the time we did not have a town treasurer as required by the bank and the amount of 13,667 was allocated for first payment of the loan in the FY 23 budget. Nothing was budgeted to FY 24. The truck has been ordered and we expect it to be delivered in November or December of 23. Sondra Ferber, our town treasurer has now applied for the loan. So a possible action is to sign the loan proposal to secure a loan of 66,667 from Community Bank towards the new fire truck. So what does it mean? And Winchester that nothing was budgeted for FY 24. It isn't in there in the budget, but there's been a concern about that. He feels that there's going to be enough that we'll be able to pay off the percentage that we entertain them. Okay. Have folks had a chance to look at the loan letter from Yes. When you're there. Okay. All right. So I think I am looking for a motion to to do I need a motion and or do I do it? Am I looking for a motion for signing the proposal? It says it's newly authorized agent. So I was like, okay, looking for a motion to authorize me to and second. All right. I need discussion. I'm going to call the role of Jordan. Yes. And me. Yes. And Jane. Yes. And Tulin. Yes. And and Winchester. Yes. Okay. So I'm signing that. Okay. Next order of business is to review the contract with numeric for payroll services in today's Google folder. There are there's a two page document, which is actually two contracts. Correct. But we can't apply those services right now because we don't have sufficient internet of their time and the services for payroll. Okay. So the both time purchase is really the main contract for up to what was it 96 hours a year? Yes. So the next year. Okay. And then the payroll service agreement would would be I think I saw that it'll be prorated if we bring it back in house. Correct. As long as we use it for payroll services, we say well, yes, it's for that. And they they have no problem in canceling it. If at any point you touch some deals ready to do it. Well, how how are we doing it in house if we're using them for payroll services? Well, you'll recall the treasurer used to do this. But she did not want to. She said it's a matter of cutting the checks, you know, redoing the hours and cutting the checks. And so we authorized, you know, I think our first meeting to for network to continue doing that piece of it. And for standard to keep doing the rest of the treasurer's position. Okay. So if the the bulk time purchase of 96 hours does not include payroll, and most of what they were doing except payroll, Sandra's doing. The piece that Sandra's not doing is the the requisite, the monthly statements of the requisite he's for help me out here. Right. That is absolutely correct. And we're kind of the only piece that gives me pause is that the 96 hour minimum, that if we didn't hit that, we'd have to pay the balance up to 96. I talked that over with Barbara with Santa. And she assured me that we would easily hit that because they also do the annual audit. I can't remember a couple of other things. Okay, a lot of time. Okay. Okay, so do I need to be authorized to sign or or should we should we have a motion to authorize me to sign the number contracts? When you have you would need to sign the two contracts and initial all the places where we wrote I wrote because you changed the dates. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So we have the authorize to sign the number contract and we have the balance and to initial the date, the starting date for the bulk purchase is on April 1st ending March 31st of next year. And you have the other one in front of you but I think there was something to it earlier too. The other one you did not have date changes on the payroll service agreement with the town of Calis. It's if you're in the Google Drive, it's the same. It's the same document. It's just a two page document with the two contracts. And yeah, that one doesn't have any corrections to initial. Yeah. Is there a second? Okay. That was Jamie second. Any discussion? Can you just kind of restate it? I just wrote that and made a motion to authorize you to sign the two contracts and to initial the contract dates. Is that good to know? Yeah. Okay. Good. Thank you. Okay. Jordan. Yes. Okay. And Gabrielle. Yes. Jamie. Yes. And Ann Thulin. Yes. And Ann Winchester. Yeah. Okay. I will sign those and initial and the next item is to review the contract for services with Washington County Sheriff's Department and a possible action to sign the contract. Has any has everybody reviewed the share of contract? I'll report that the reason you didn't sign it last time was you wanted to be sure that if we get into the year and decide we need more, they would be flexible enough for that. And Sheriff Thulin assured me that they would be. Right. Yeah. Um, okay. Yeah. And did you happen to get any more clarification on on how the overtime hours are applied or calculated relative to the balance? No. If I was supposed to do that, I apologize. You weren't. I was, but it sounded like and I and I did not. So, um, I was just wondering if it came up in uh, in the in your clarification that you had received, but that's okay. If it's not between the hours of whatever, eight, nine to five, or eight, four, whatever. Right. Because they started to overturn. Yeah. All right. So this is one that if we approve it, all five of us sign. So, um, do people need a little time to look back over this contract? Okay. Um, is there a can I have a motion to, um, approve the share of contract? So I moved. Second. All right. I have a motion and a second. Um, any further discussion? Okay. Uh, Jordan. Yes. Gabrielle. Yes. Uh, Jamie. Yes. And Tula. Yes. And Anne Winchester. Yes. Okay. So, I'm gonna pass this around. I'm noticing there's two signature pages. That way, we can mail one back to them with live signatures on it. Okay. And this is the contract for Fiscal Year 24. Is that correct? Yes. Correct. Thank you. Um, today is five, eight, twenty-three. Okay. Sorry. Oh, wait, that's right. So, we'll do, we'll each do both of them. Sorry, audience. I know it's, okay. It's mesmerizing. Talk and chew. Isn't that boring? Okay. What's this one? I think that's the next, the town contract. Okay. DeWolf. All right. Next up. The town has received a $90,000 bridge to repair the Mosca Woods Road Bridge. DeWolf Engineering has agreed to do the engineering design work for between $9,000 and $13,500 plus expenses, which would be paid from the grant. So, we have a contract with DeWolf Engineering and I think the motion would be to authorize a road commissioner to sign the contract with DeWolf Engineering. And so, that would be Jamie and Anne and is there only space for one signature? I think it's just one. Yeah, Jamie can do it. That's fine. This is a contract that was initiated in October, I think, in the last select board. Signed it or lost track of it. I forget which John might remember, but I think it never got initiated. And so, took the DeWolf contract for the engineering work on the temporary repair on the Mosca Bridge. So, Toby just got back up, back in touch with them. They updated it. The numbers were similar and sent a new copy for signature. Yeah, yeah. Rick King was the point guy on this. It's regardless that this is moving that forward and it's all part of that $90,000 grant that we got, which will cover, you know, the majority of the project, which is slated to be 110, roughly, is the estimate, I think? Yeah, and my recollection was that the work that they were doing was both to scope out a temporary solution that would buy time for a more permanent solution. So, I'd make a motion, I guess, to authorize Jamie to sign the contract with DeWolf for the purpose of designing the Mosca Woods Bridge repair. Okay, all right, any further discussion? Okay, I'll call the roll, Jordan. Yep. Gabrielle, yes. Jamie. Yes. Anne Thulin. Yes. And Anne Winchester. Mark. Okay. All right. That brings us, and you just took that, right? Yes. That brings us to public comment. We do have some quite a few folks here. So, yeah, who's here for public comment? John, and Mark, and Jim. Okay, and John, what's your last name? K-O-H-R. K-O-H-R. Okay, so I think the order that folks came in were Mark, John, Jim, and John, does that sound right? Okay, that's how we're going to do it, and we have, let's see, half an hour. So, there's four of you, so let's just keep it to, what is that, equal four to 30 divided by four is, you know, under seven and a half minutes each. Shouldn't be any trouble. Yeah. Well, what I wanted to talk about was the speed limit reductions, and I see that that's on the agenda for later tonight. Would it be more appropriate if I asked? That's what I wanted to talk about. Me too. Or maybe we should use the time now to do that. I'm unclear. We're trying to figure out what it is. Yeah, so let's see. Okay, so we've got four of us here to talk about the speed limit reductions, and that is, are you calling that under the report section at 7.15, the traffic studies? The traffic, wait, okay, yeah, the traffic studies. Are folks okay with taking up that matter now, so the folks that are here for yeah, the comment? They don't want to have to. Okay, so that's part of a report. Should we hear the report first? Sure. And then we'll do public comment. Right, because that might answer the questions. Okay. All right, so Jamie and Anne, do you want to take it away? Sure. So my understanding of this is that the last over the course of several years, the former select board heard from a lot of residents that they had concerns and thoughts about speed limits on a variety of roads in Calis. One of them, I don't know if those specific roads, people are particularly interested, but one of them is the section of county road that's 50 currently, and there was a petition four or five years ago? No, last year. Last year, from residents on that road requesting it be reduced to 40 miles per hour. If I can clarify, that was after they couldn't get the slide to initiate anything, so petition the board and you bound to get some action more immediately. So that's kind of what happened. And then that opened a broader conversation about speed limits, and John did a lot of the work, I believe, looking at the town ordinance, which roads are 35, which are 30, which have high pedestrian traffic, which have dangerous corners, farms with livestock, et cetera, and made an initial proposal to reduce the speed limits on quite a few roads in Calis. There was a public hearing that I was at, and I think Jordan was at, and probably, I may not remember. I don't think I remember. Discussing this, and a lot of people came and shared support. I think the vast majority, maybe all but one in attendance who gave their opinion were in support of changing these speed limits. And so the select board at one of their last meetings passed an update to the Calis traffic coordinates. When we took over a couple weeks later, we looked at that, and before just running out and buying all new speed limit signs, we had a bunch of conversations and we learned that there had in the statute for changing speed limits, you're supposed to do a traffic study in order to change outside of certain parameters. Those traffic studies were not done for these roads. And so what we decided was that we would, instead of simply instituting the change, we would go ahead and start the process of doing some of those traffic studies, and learn more about the parameters. And there's a lot of rules about what you can do with speed limits based on the traffic studies. So we have contracted with Central Vermont Regional Planning. They do traffic studies for free. We're on their calendar for doing traffic studies this summer on County Road, Lightning Ridge Road, and two others, but I can't remember off the top of my head. And that's sort of what they felt they could get done for us this summer. And that was the priority list we gave them based on what we do about people's interest. And so our plan, as I understand it, was to conduct those traffic studies and then revisit the issue later in the summer or fall once we have the information. That's sort of my understanding of where we are, and how we got there. So I'll be really curious to hear what the results of the studies are to see if they think it's a good idea to lower the speed limits or if they say no, they're fine the way they are. Yeah. My understanding is that there's, and Winchester may know more about this, but my understanding is that there are rules. They sort of throw away the 15 percent fastest cars in the study. And look at that 85th percentile. And unless you have a really compelling reason, you can't go below sort of that what people drive. Because the fear on the state end is if you, if everybody's driving 50 and you set the speed limit to 40, people are just going to pass each other. And that's more dangerous than just letting everybody go 50. And so I think we have to see the traffic studies before we make any decisions. Right, no, that makes sense. So just to know that AOT has their interpretation of the statute, and then there are many other legal minds that would disagree. The study is informative, it's advisory, but once you do that, you take that into account among other factors and then ultimately the decision of this is of the select order. I haven't done that. So if people choose to go 100 miles an hour, which, you know, I hate on County Road out of few fields, and I'll tell you my tractor road down last year and I walked along last Wayne Morse's old property, it was scary as can be. People going in pickup trucks passing each other, cars going 50 or 60, getting passed at 70 or 80. So that's a problem. It's a WL line there. There's a corner there. And so anyway, there are many other factors. The types of uses of the road. So you look at the speed. If it's, you know, maybe route 14 or route two, that's one thing. But you have a road like County Road or Robinson Cemetery Road, where you have, that's one of the roads. Old Church Road, you have a town that's population is increasing, increasing. You have a town whose population is increasingly trying to get out of doors and use our roads for other than driving. They're walking people. There's what everyone knows in Maple Corner as the walking loop. They walk around up West County Road and back down Robinson Cemetery Road. There are blind hills in corners. So yeah, there might be people who are willing to go 35-40 on that. But given considering the types of uses, kids on bicycles who operate bicycles in a better way than maybe adults do, etc. We have, now we have, what they call them, gravel bikers all over the place. On my road, it's like the big thing, we have races up and down my road, running races pretty much weekly from that amount. There's all these different types of uses now. And you can all take that into consideration to counterbalance people deciding what the speed limit should be by virtue of putting the pedal to the metal. So we understood that. Slyport also understood there's a cad that at the bottom of that statue that says basically this is memory. Once five years has transpired, the need to to have in hand a traffic study is no longer a requirement. We also know that many or most of every every road in this town that's posted 25 never had a traffic study. Every single one. And we also know that five years has come and gone, including Apple Hill. So, you know, so I just, so the Slyport took that all into consideration. We did talk to our attorney about it and so we went forward. And in addition to traffic ordinance changes, included some signage changes, a stop sign here. We've had a resident from Able Corner actually got hit when a FedEx truck went rolling right through and hit him on the bicycle. We've had people clipped on County Road more than once and they came and testified at the hearing. And so, and we also have, Jen Ansel wrote the issue with the Y where Bliss Pond enters Old West Church Road. People come flying through. They don't realize they need to look over their shoulder and they're cutting off corners or clipping or putting pedestrians in cyclos. So so part of the ordinance was to put yuletons there just as a wake up. And lastly, the ordinance is now in effect. So, I mean it's still a discretion. It's like enforcement discretion whether you want to put up signage or not. I would encourage you that at least the roads you're not concerned about doing a study on that you put the signs up and also put the stop sign and the yield signs up that we anticipated happening. That those don't require a study to be done. Well, we were informed by the Washington County Sheriff that several of our speed limit signs were out of combined code. They're not up to code. So, we actually have a whole big project of other older sizes. Yeah, and and so with that, with that in the case, the speed limits default to, I can't remember what he said, but something faster than anything. Yeah, so so there's some work to do, but they yeah, we're definitely going to go forward with the traffic studies and I think reconvene. Yeah, sort of on the docket for this summer is doing some type of a sign inventory, figuring out, because it in I think it was in that public meeting with the ordinance was passed. It came out that there are likely some roads that the the current ordinance and the signs up don't actually match anymore. They do now. They didn't. Oh, actually signs up. Oh, I don't know. That's true. Yeah, this road. Right. And that was recognized in the hearing. Right. And so we just we're going to work with the road crew and sort of figure out exactly which roads the signs are up to code, which once they're not and and do these other signs as part of a broader sign compliance. We did have a resident, I think it was a resident, but we had a speeder come through Maple Corner a couple of three years ago and they did their due diligence and realized that the sign need to be posted at a certain height, even though it was right there, it was summer. They're at a certain height because of snow. It was summer, but it said didn't say winter or summer. And they got to take it to them out because the post wasn't so we had to raise the post. Yeah, but that's something that the Sheriff Office had brought up is that even if everything is to spec, they are under considerable pressure from the courts to reduce everything and to really minimize ticketing people. So that was his advice was to do everything as to spec as possible. You know, the traffic studies making sure our signs are the right size and shade of white or what not. Yeah, so that when we do have the Sheriff's Office come out because their costs have gone up like everything else in this state, they can be effective instead of paying a lot of money and then, you know, it gets thrown out. That was frustrating for them. I had just a little more of a foot. I don't think my time's up yet. So I get my thinking about it before I came down was that obviously there's a lot of, I don't know if there's a lot, but there's people that go way too fast on the back roads. There's a lot of people that follow the speed limits on the back roads. And I'm wondering if lowering the speed limit is going to slow down the people that are already going too fast or if lowering the speed limit is just going to slow down those of us who are already following the speed limits. So that's a very good point and that's largely why they recommend doing the traffic study because I think it's pretty easy for us all to think of instances of when we experience the speeders and get frustrated with people whipping by. But, and anecdotally, I had the manifestation of the opposite problem this morning. There was slow traffic and there was somebody on the county road just coming out of Montpelier and there was an individual from out of state who decided that that slow traffic was too slow and it was, they were going the speed limit and they passed them on a blind turn. And so the reason for the traffic studies is because if you have the average individual who's going to follow the speed limit or drive what they consider to be a reasonable speed, there are always going to be individuals who think that that speed is unreasonably slow and then they start they start behaving dangerously and you can have an adverse impact on dangerous behavior by slowing the folks down. So, and we got that feedback from the sheriff as well and just having a greater understanding of the impacts on both both sides of making a change like that. Because I guess I'd want to, I'd want to advocate in some way for those of us who are always a little behind and have a little too much to do. And we're trying to get to work, we're trying to pick up kids, we're trying to get to meetings and we don't necessarily need to go another five miles an hour slower. But I like I wonder if that is too much a minute of cumbrance to try to solve a problem that isn't going to be solved by that. That I think that's well enough with the traffic studies show because yeah if you set it too low and average comfortable speed for the average person is 35 and to make it 25 then you could be at risk like Jamie said of people trying to pass each other and yeah so trying to find that balance and unfortunately that people that haul through are going to do it. Yeah I've always been run off the road it was a stolen vehicle. I guess in the fell it didn't really care you would say. I would have thought it up as stills of a scar but it's all the time you're like one that's going on. Yeah and some roads have more of a problem with that than others in town. But just to be clear for me county were being different. Okay I'm going to separate that from the other nine. I don't know if that's a reminder. For the most part the other roads had constraints where 35 the posted speed limit was too fast when people were going the speed it was too fast for the safety of the pedestrian, cycling, public and there was a recognition that people use these roads for multiple kind of uses not just automobiles so it was about balancing the rights of automobile drivers and the rest of us. Basically it was trying to make our community more friendly to all and so that's why those roads were chosen out of all the other roads. It wasn't because we wanted to get people to go 35 but we're going 50. It was moved to 25 because that was the right speed so we all thought so that's one of that clarification. Okay I want to give Jim and John. Yeah I mean I drive a lot because I did service work for years. I mean a lot a lot to tell us and the thing I don't want to see speed limits reduced like that's just my first opinion. I think if you drive the speed limit they're great everything's fine I mean maybe a little faster than 30 miles an hour around a turn here you know there's a few things. I think the thing that drives me crazy and I think it drives everybody I talk to customers is you leave maple corners and you everybody goes 35 to 25 then they hit they get up to you know but the weird thing is is when they go 40 and that's what pisses everybody off because it's 50 and so everybody I mean that happens twice or three times a week out of Calis they go 40 miles an hour all the way to Montpilers and I don't do anything I just okay it's a slow day and I just back up I'm like what a bummer but I'd say 25 percent of the time someone will pass me and that person and my logic is what I think with Marc Nielsen is if you put it at 40 I know you don't agree with me sorry people are gonna get pissed they're gonna be and everybody in my house is like what you kidding me 40 miles an hour you know and then you know other things are like they want they wanted to put 50 East Montpilers a lot of people you know it's I mean I don't just County Road is interesting I think what the problem is the signages I think you need a bigger fucking excuse me big signs because a lot of times as you leave I look at people's eyes as they drive they don't know it's 50 you know a lot of them might not be here or something but there's only one little sign and they missed it and they're like oh I can't be 50 or you know or I don't know my logic is I think you just need better signs bigger and better and more signs I mean I don't know but my last thing is I think the speed limits are fine except for a few on the back roads that's what I'm gonna say and even I mean I know County Road I bike it all the time and usually good people drivers like good drivers they'll slow down or they'll wait till the car yeah there's of course it's stupid it's just you know they just bomb by me as someone else is there and I I know and I'll stop and pull off or something I mean I don't know that's my two cents you done Jim John yeah many many times you know just with kids and just out of state are just going wait like 80s on County and other back roads but all signs aside I don't think the signs are gonna do anything is there is there any way we can station I know we don't have our own police of course but there's any way to station a cop here and there just occasionally even once a month you know I know there was one that would sit on what had to grow every once in a while County Road they do it once a month but yeah every once a month like catching people on I haven't seen one in years we have this contract and we do we've I've seen them down on 14 I've seen them up at Maple Corners the challenges as we had shared earlier one of our signs aren't the right size they can get it thrown out right so there's so many specifications and particularly with their cops up we want to make sure that if we have them come out if they pull someone over it's going to be able to stick but they are very willing when they came and met with us to not only do the main drags but they'd be willing to park on Lightning Ridge I know there's ongoing challenges with like the school traffic or if your kids dropped off and because the presence can help even for the most committed speeding folks but that's kind of why I mean we're still getting into it we still have the contract but because their prices have gone up because they have to we just want to make sure will we have this year come out it's going to have impact right and be more than spending 120 or 180 dollars in you know deterring it for one afternoon. A point of information there was a time when the town received a full amount of the ticket that's legislated changed that law unfortunately to our detriment but that the cost was that it still didn't cost us much we said going back when we were talking about the sheriff back when we got the full amount will take 40 hours a week and they said they have to spread themselves across the entirety of your county and same thing with costs so they gave us the full allocation which is a tiny amount of time and I noticed the sheriff actually surprisingly at donor to donor road or pitch road just yesterday it used to be the state police would patrol you some time earlier but now it's a sheriff so now they're splitting their time between us and them maybe they patrolled yesterday but it's a very minimal amount of time to give us yeah it's kind of count now because the per hour is pretty much double what it used to be so our $4,000 a year contract is going half as far it's about an hour a week yeah so but we can adjust it um if we uh find that it's underserved and the reason there was a state trooper on Haggit often was because that state trooper pretty much lived there yeah so I got a ticket there once anyway can I have one last quick comment absolutely um so we're going to do this traffic study and then um you said earlier that they did a petition and stuff everybody wants it reduced will you the select board um look at the thing and says no we're not we're not going to reduce it or you know it's up to you though you know it's all and john says it's an opinion so what so then this is it's just gonna are you gonna go by is there gonna be another comment I mean I mean it seems to me like it needs to be put out there maybe to the residents or something I think you know it's not just okay we got this study and the select board just to change it yeah does that make any sense we haven't discussed this in depth but I would assume that we'll do this study we'll get the information and we'll hold a public okay great that's all I care about thank you okay that'll be perfect can I make a comment or is it too late uh yeah I apologize for coming in late I hope I'm not repeating anyone but I've been going I coming out on county road since 1982 and it's it was hardly in the traffic back then and I think 50 was fine back then but I think we need to reduce it now because of all the new population however I don't really like 40 um I was hoping for maybe a goalie locks 50s too fast 40s too slow maybe and it would be nice because I think 40s is maybe a bit too slow but that's that's my opinion and I like to also just say when you're policing it maybe not for 50 if you leave at 50 but this day is one on daydreaming and I don't intend I usually go 45 and then but this day he's on daydreaming and I go a little bit faster and so I hope you're not making it so that if you're going 41 and a half you're gonna get a ticket I I hope I I hope you didn't share us the heartbeat when they say no but I mean they don't have the stuff I think someone who's going 45 or even if you're after the people that are going I because I've been past I've actually stopped any other people at the store I'll stop every time I stop every time yeah they stop or I'm following so but I'm just hoping that they can be have a lonely way because sometimes it's just you're not okay yeah I don't I don't envision the sheriff's office doing that sort of speed trap with their dress I'm now waiting for someone to go from the 50 to the 40s over the second they get the 40s you know they can give warnings versus giving you a ticket yeah no again I think our goal would be to get the most egregious yeah you know a lot of that too is our intention is to stop the people going it's really fast yeah not going five miles over the speed limits okay any other public comment did my in our experience the sheriff I've talked to the sheriff's office and over the years they don't write over for you have to be beyond five miles and I'll be stealing a ticket yeah and even if it's the first time it's a warning usually anyway but if you're 10 over you're getting the ticket and we told them that yeah but I don't know if I agree with you on that oh you know someone got to fine okay um all right I think that's it for public comment we're going to move on to callous zoning regulations um so the planning commission has completed its proposed amendments to the callous zoning regulations oh and thank you everybody who probably commented um and held a second public hearing on May 2nd to answer questions and your concerns at this meeting the planning commission will formally present the draft to the select board for review and acceptance so Jan is there anything you want to say are you going to cry these are so excited that we're almost now I'll stay back here yeah can you can you hear me no you can hear me Jordan do you have I had a copy of the um of the required report I had it on the email I don't know Jordan do you know that's a meeting I wasn't I was hoping to be there but I didn't get a chance to do it I'd love to copy I had it on here sure okay um so the what is out on our website on the time website is the required report which pretty much outlines everything um that is in this we did give the official uh formatted between draft I think I sent it to Barbara on the fourth of May or the fifth of May so hopefully you all have a copy of what is the final um from the planning perspective draft of these regulations what I do want to say this is really important for the planning commission we started this process in 2016 to try to get a shoreland overlay and it has been a very long time we added as things were moving along we added more things to this the river corridor we wrote flood hazards um we we wrote the process for doing design advisory board and a few other things so it kind of walked into this big new amendment so I it's really important for us that we hope that you will you know look it over and really approve it um I do want to talk a little bit about process because the process is design is from statute um you have to hold a public hearing and I think Anne mentioned something about holding it maybe June 12th if you folks on the select board have changes of substance we have to know those at least 14 days before your hearing so that means if you find something that you want changed and we change it for that hearing if after that you find something else to be changed then you have to hold a second hearing and this is kind of like the process also the warning for your hearing has to be done 15 days before before your hearing so I'll work with Tegan at getting the necessary warnings out for you if you let me know what all you want to do along along that line but that's the process and then if you approve it um do you hold a public hearing you approve it after that public hearing technically uh it is usual it has gone to vote so we have to hold a special vote and we've been working with Barbara and Tegan as to what kind of vote this would be there usually it's a warning of about two sentences that says the town will approve the amendments um Tegan and Barb have said that they would print the ballot uh for us and basically people will have to ask for the ballot to be mailed I think that's the way it has been decided or vote person or voted person on the date that is chosen so those are that's the process that that we have um and as always if you have questions as you're going through this um and you'd like to have those questions answered just get in touch with anybody on the planning commission. Are there rules about the length of time between the public hearing and the vote? Yes absolutely so that's why I was raising my hand is we need to build in enough time to give me all statutory guidelines on how far in advance all this has to be done before an election can be held and that we have to wrap into there also calling a meeting of the board of civil authority to vote on having an election they they have to approve the date the location and so forth so there's just lots and lots of steps along the way that we have to all meet statutorily but having said that you the select board can in fact be the final approval it does not have to go to Australian ballot it's just that our town has at each time because we made it in time for march and the town meeting we have made it for the vote but um doing a research with I was in the meeting at Central Vermont Regional Planning and we had about eight different towns one was Marshfield, Waitesfield, I can't remember some of the others that were on the meeting and I asked how many towns had Australian ballot to vote to approve regulations and how many stopped at the select board and had the select board only approve it it was 50-50 it was I was pretty amazing board towns went for Australian ballot board towns went for the select board had final approval and I think about this a little bit when you have an ordinance you don't put an ordinance out for a vote and in my mind these regulations are really almost like an ordinance you are putting forth regulations on how to develop this land in this in the town of Calis we have an enforcement officer called a zoning administrator and so it's just a thought for you all to think about if you decide you want to have it and go on for vote that's fine if you want to be the final say that's fine too I just I'm just pretty good out there um any questions yeah what is the um what's the date that we're working backwards from in other words when does it have to be approved by okay we are working our final drop dead date uh is September 19th and why is that the drop dead because that was our first public hearing was last year September 20th 2022 we have one year to approve these changes so the Australian ballot would have to that day would have to be before September 19th right but we have to consider the fact that we have tax bills and we have town people the town clerk has to work out but with the tax bill and voting and so it when Anne and I were discussing this with Barbara and with Tegan it was like what fits their schedule and we moved it to July a possible July vote in order so that they can produce the tax bills without having to um interrupt the the yeah interrupt the tax bill with the vote I mean so we were trying to also accommodate the town office and I'm just kind of curious like as you've been um deliberating these changes uh how what kind of public participation do you get typically at your meetings very rare and I would say since September we've had a lot of input from conservation Larry Noreen and a few others from conservation typically we have nobody come to our meetings um in terms of what we did to prepare for this though starting in 2016 2017 2018 we held three international meetings one in adamant one at make a corner and one in the rec center and we accommodated all of the areas of the links and adamant was important because they had never before been in shoreland district and so we've taken all of those informational meetings became our source okay um can we come let me come yeah I think John was first though quite a few points of clarification um zoning ordinances are ordinances by statute and my understanding of the statute is um unless the town's folks town people both otherwise either a town meeting or a special meeting select boards approve zoning ordinances that's your belly wick the people of any particular town feel that they want to have the ultimate say as to what the zoning whether the zoning changes or zoning regulations in the first instance she'd go into effect at a at a warrant town meeting they can require that in the middle of the select board or instead of the select board yeah um that it be required that the uh that the zoning regulations proposed be subjected to a full vote of the town um the australian ballot now this predates me but my understanding it's only here say okay i may know better she may have done the research but my i'm not i have not and uh so my understanding was that that discussion was had at town meeting in the town or out of my meeting of the town and it was decided to go australian ballot um and jan knows better cell stuff no i have researched that good i could never find in any town meeting going back to 2010 oh no this is long ago well i know but we could never find who i'm joining with here too when we were researching we could never find where a vote had gone that it would go for australian ballot forever and ever and ever in other words it said from here on in what happened is that each and every year the vote was made this year we're going to look for this whenever we came out but as a town we have never put in a request that said from here on in all the the zoning regulations will be forever loaded on by australian ballot that has never been done and that may be because my understanding was when this town like old towns didn't have zoning and that there was a ru-ha-ha here in whether they should have zoning or not and so it would there was uh a vote to compel that zoning if we're going to adopt our first-settling rights and maybe it's not going forward but at least the very first ones were required or subject to a vote of the town my understanding was that was a requirement that all zoning that regs and changes to that were required required a full vote of the electorate so and this is this is 1980s this is not 2010 do you have a clarifying question on the resume about a march night i have a clarifying question okay um and i certainly might have the answer you know i was with the select board for 18 years and i can't tell you how many times i've typed that document and it's my understanding that it's the select boards um that gives the final stamp and we are in our town we have never gone and switched it that it's a town life vote i'm 99 sure it's a select board that we um authorizes though you so you as far as you know there's never been an australian ballot since you've been paying attention for zoning regs since i've been suckering the zoning has always approved that australian if i knew that i needed to find the answer i would have had the answer i can definitely just look at it okay and march i just want to mention i do respect jan and all the crowd that have worked on this i know i just like to work on something for a long time but i do feel that this is of such a large magnitude that i think our town has a culture where people want to be able to have a say in what's going on so i think we should accommodate a method and one that fits into the september 19th deadline so that the town can vote on it whether it's binding or not i think the town needs to have an opinion be able to express their opinion i know i was mad at john when he when the select board said that we had to go out to vote for the bond issue on the dam but i realized that that was the best thing we did when we had when we did go out to vote and we had the town give the uh the approval at two to one it i think it's the right thing to do maybe it's not the president but i think it's the right thing to do so jamie so and and that was the right decision john i didn't think our attorneys had to i'm just telling you that i wasn't mad at the time but it was the right it was the right thing to do so i just looked at the existing document zoning document and it lists at the top for the 11 amendments since 2005 right and 10 of the 11 say they were amended by town vote and one of them says it was adopted by the select board who was that january 3rd 2005 the first one the first one so i'm wondering if that's all the amendment i'm wondering if there was something happened at town meeting or a special meeting was called particularly was the pelch of scottie quarry earth mineral resources and extraction around in a rural residential that was a five that's what happened that's why they're on my computer okay hold on first i'm not this one my home i just want to i guess the concern i have is having a vote i'm conscious of the time that having a vote in the summertime in july or even if it's on labor day sorry Barbara um you know what how many people are really going to be interested in voting we had 10 people show up for one public hearing and the first public hearing we had 13 people and of the 10 people on the second four were the select board so i mean and our meetings are public for crying out loud nobody shows so i'm sorry i agree in principle that democracy requires a vote but on something like this that has been open and going on for eight years i just i would just assume the select board approved it and let it go so that our next ones that we do which we are starting a to-do list for the next update and just a legal point of clarification if if in fact it wasn't a vote of the town folks as gross seems to think um and the select board did adopt zoning regulations if their citizens ever read by it they always file a petition and then force it to a vote so they already had their say and one thing is uh you said that if we were to warn a sorry a a public hearing for June 12th you would need to know of any changes two weeks before June 12th yes okay so we got a month to work no uh huh yeah well i'm just thinking out loud to people who might really be interested in how the zoning regs affect them like right now would be the time to read that beautiful long document and wrap your head around it and talk to your neighbors and figure out if there are changes and that would need to happen because i you know i i certainly would want to kick people into high gear thinking about it before the select board were to and i'm not saying that's what we would do but i would i would never take a vote of five people without understanding you know how people really feel about the document and i understand the challenges of planning documents being um read honestly so um i appreciate that but that's just another reason why i wouldn't vote on it without understanding how people feel about it hi and tell us your name michael and young i would say just i'm not careful speaking but i would say listening to this if i were to select one i would look out at a grand jury versus a prosecutor situation let the grand jury the voters deal with it that way there's nothing controversial in the past there's controversy that doesn't pass and you don't have to eat from out of food again or whatever it's just it's a good way it's a democratic way uh it's a chalice condition so i'd like to recommend what the voters do maybe a hundred people who show up if that's a hundred people are interested and uh maybe the vote maybe on front force forum there should be some offices that would change in the in the document i mean i obviously i think you can have a link to it but just do a small just for change cnd changing the shoreline whatever and more details are on the clicks people don't really mean too much to do and plus you know i was on plan if you should i think i was with john i think we are a few years ago back in the day dinosaurs one year and people don't they've got other things to do in their knees so that's what i would suggest thank you is there even is there a minimum number of people that have to vote if a special vote is called i don't think so i don't know that for a fact but i don't think so either i mean everybody's given the opportunity whether they show up or not on them one vote and honestly that's that's why we plan to do it sort of in-house this election and print them as we go we figured we could print 30 50 at a pop and print more as we needed them instead of going to a printer and getting a thousand and then nine hundred seven and then we're still sitting here at the end of the day so that's kind of actual regulations are 118 and you post a digital copy too yeah well hi i'm larry bush just on the procedural question i think it sounds like it would be possible to hold this vote after labor day but before this drop period later in september and i would just urge you if you're going to have a public person think you should but if you do i would urge you to do it after labor day for the reasons that several people have mentioned i think you would need to preach the current vote for the vote and even the well yeah all the people who were held for the vote i think it would be better to do it after labor day all right so um are we ready to talk about the public hearing and potentially scheduling it for june 12 what do folks think i mean i think regardless of the decision if it's if we ultimately vote on it or if we do a town-wide vote we want to have a public hearing and i see no reason not to schedule that for the for the 12th and uh can i get something yes please yeah okay i'm sorry i'm not actually able to follow the internal conversation but i caught what janey said if you think that there's any chance that we want to make changes before going to public hearing you should not warrant it to us the reason i chose you june 12th as as the potential date is we have to award that tonight in order to do a hearing on june 12th because our next meeting is on the 22nd and that's too soon but she was meeting after that but if you think that we want to spend some time talking about changes that we want to make at the next meeting then you should not warrant a hearing for the 12th tonight does that make sense it makes sense but i um you know i would probably only want to make changes if i heard from people that they wanted changes and understood the reasons why so um i don't know do you think it's possible to go to public hearing but do you want more opportunity to i'm just trying to understand the intention of uh of the hearing a little bit um and and so with what i'm hearing from the community is uh is a desire um to to participate um there's as tan will will attest to there's there's been a long process for participation but i also sympathize how people can feel like they're late to getting up to speed or and i see value in having a hearing that offers a community the opportunity one last time to participate but then uh how do any changes after that get adopted or uh when does the decision get made relative to either us adopting them at that hearing or afterwards or making a decision to go to you get out of public hearing we want to make changes then we have to make our changes and then hold another public hearing correct right so i mean the the purpose that a public hearing be it the planning commissions or the select boards is for the opportunity for the town people to have their say and of what it is that they have if there's no changes it can just go through a real easy if if um if the public hearing has some changes then it has to go back to the planning we have to make the changes it goes back to the select board and there's another public hearing for that to go and then become a vote if you decide to go to the vote so i mean it's it's an elongated process but yeah it can be done can can i ask a procedural clarification um the the one year mark when that starts is that relative to like if the select board sets a hearing and starts the next process is that are you still accountable to that one year uh september date or that is that the date is from the date that the public that the planning commission held its first year right and that's by state steps yep yeah there's a point of clarification substantive changes require a second yes non-substantive type votes that's important yeah uh so i think what in doubt it is i don't see the harm in schedule and mourning and having the even if even if we review this document and decide that we want to make changes and subject ourselves to the to the additional hearing there's a process for that whether it's coming from us or coming from from the town and everybody has had the opportunity to to participate i think to jen's to jen's point and it sounds like they they have those who care have so i think it'd be appropriate to to warn a meeting for for june 11 12 thank you i just had a quick question that might be a can of worms um i think you know it's a very large document you know like just as a layperson looking i'm like oh my god i don't look at this and then i have nothing to compare it to is there is there any way i know this might sound too big of a task to take the old regs compare them to the new regs and just highlight the changes for everybody and then you probably have a tracking change you will find it very difficult to read the tracking changes of things that are things to the lay person of callous resident because it's like the dam you know how the dam all of a sudden and put it on front porch form well what happened was that turned out to be an amazing vote and nobody knew it's just trying to get the information out there but right now it's a very confusing document and i mean and if there's any way to make a synopsis of the two maybe there is already i was going to say just a summary of what to do yeah from front porch form because you know what's going to happen well this is a summary i was going to write down a summary to give to the curtis pond association membership about the curtis pond changes and so i would be happy to help someone do a document like this and do it for the curtis pond stuff so on the website where it's got the changes i think both on the planning commission site and the public notice about their hearing there's a document with the track changes which is just very hard to read there's another one called the required report and that's a three page sort of bulleted list of changes and i i think you'd find that the actual line changes the actual specific line which um how does how does the lay callous person find that what you should be doing is doing strike an underline format that's well we have the original the the original before we had art and then we've been working on that so if you realize we have tracking versus tracking versus tracking and and we do several so we now we go by the date of the file so that we know what we're working with um we have a track change between what we had on our public hearing and the changes that we have made now but we also have something i have on my computer multiple check marks for copies i just don't know that people would really want to read everything with the final one should be in that basically legislative format it is uh claire central romant put it in for us so those are your changes but i mean i i you know i agree with jim it's i honestly think it's impossible to read one of those documents and understand anything it does unless somebody tells you this is what it does and and i it was very helpful going to the meeting that's another thing jim is is you know anytime they have a public hearing it may not be your favorite thing to do on a tuesday night but that's that's a good way to get information and things that peak peak your interest it happened with marge or something that she didn't know about and um so jan what i would say is if we wind up um morning of public hearing for june 12 from porch forum from porch forum from porch forum summaries uh you know offers to answer questions all those kinds of things are really like the due diligence that we have to do to try to get real public input or no public input that's okay too yeah if jan will help me i'll write something to her and then i'll post it or let her review it and i'll post it concerning correspond i don't want to give in to the entire document but i can at least don't no but i do want to do that i was going to do that anyway but i would rather work with jans to make sure what i'm stating is correct so yeah i would definitely want to see a summary of you know all the changes not just the purges changes but yeah yeah that'd be great i'm not going to do that right wasn't that meeting that we were at that was filmed was it not last week and i found a super illuminating because i walked into it and haven't tried to serve through the document and be like yeah like literally no idea what this means but but i walked away understanding what you were doing so people can also go is it on our website or just on the orca website it's on orca and and the first public hearing was also recorded okay you will go and see the first public hearing that we had and the presentation as much as possible live maps and and the second one was too so okay so that for the community to check those out because it was fairly pretty and informative so so maybe in your front what at least one of your front porch form posts include links to those work of recordings okay so um we are um about 30 half hour behind um are we ready to make a motion to schedule a public hearing i personally feel like scheduling it would induce action and then worst-case scenario we need another public hearing well no that's probably not the worst-case scenario yeah yeah i would make a motion to schedule a hearing uh a sec select board hearing for june 12th for the purpose of reviewing would you do a quick look to make sure that the state of town falls available that night so that is a monday night which would be a regular select board meeting and i think and if and still on the phone we had discussed that she she asked historically how much the public hearings went on the select board meetings john maybe can answer that too usually they were no more than an hour if that because a lot of people didn't come so that they held the public hearing then they had their regular scheduled meeting afterwards and i think that might be way the way and was thinking about doing it depends on who shows up i remember we had it when there was a previous chair of planning commission i don't know what time we scheduled but it was a full night so i don't know how controversial these are or how other administrative things it's it's a little hard to predict so we could have public hearing six to seven and then our regular meeting at seven but there's certain risk that i know that we'd run over and what we do we just get to the meeting at six hoping to be over at seven but we'd say it started six and then on this agenda we'd say the select board meeting will commence after the close of the hearing and we wouldn't give a time otherwise we constrain yourself great and and if it goes really long the public hearing goes really long at six o'clock if you guys feel like wasted and you need to not have a select board meeting following then you could just schedule a special select board meeting to take care of the agenda items that were scheduled for that night okay so we've got a motion on the table is there a second a second all right further discussion i'd just be curious if and winchester if you can hear this conversation if that was your intent when proposing this initially yes from what i've heard i'm not taking everything but it sounds like you said we could have a special meeting i think we're thinking that it would not take the entire time and that we could have a special meeting if it did but i'm facing that on how many how long the other hearings were assuming ours would be about this can i ask another clarifying question um we have that hearing would that be the hearing in which the select board would adopt the ordinance or would that be an action taken in another warrant meeting the select ones would not adopt the ordinance if we were going to clean up for a vote um oh you mean like if we decide to make changes no no no jan would you envision doing a similar presentation to what you did for the planning commission public hearing i assume that the planning commission would be there to make the presentation and yes i was assuming that and i does anybody remember i was at the meeting it was only last week but was it sort of an hour of presentation and then a half hour of discussion or half hour presentation i think it's more 15 minute presentation to 20 but we had a lot of questions come in right between and it depends how the presenter controls it if i say no questions until i'm done type of thing uh or whatever you know i i was pretty loosey goosey last week but but yeah i think i would say 20 minutes presentation no more than that and if we started out with maps depending on how we did it but i then i would give at least 30 40 minutes for public comment okay further discussion all right i'm gonna call the roll jordan yes gabriel yes uh jamie yes and tulon yes and winchester yeah okay all right so we have now scheduled a public hearing for june 12 and we did not part of the motion was not warning a townwide vote on the proposal for sometime this summer so we'll handle that once we have a better handle on things okay um just to clarify june 12 start date start time 16 for the public hearing okay all right yes thank you thank you thank you revised livestock ordinance okay so we have a revised livestock ordinance to regulate livestock running large um and winchester can you hear me okay would you mind trying to summarize the most recent amendments sure um i have we did move the phone because we weren't hearing you very well okay i turned you up sorry it wasn't graceful okay so uh the second paragraph is entirely new and indicating that that means in addition to just encounter them and worrying about what they're doing to um it will fit with the neighbors of that that uh we also feel that we need to properly care for and give a proper shelter than food and water in order to keep them from life at large um in the third paragraph some of that is old land which we at IE added ensuring that livestock have received these value running by the unit's proper ventancy water shelter and health care this is um be sure that we've had the authority to make sure they have the proper shelter which we did not um and that's important to us that that it will be to give a proper shelter and uh it is nice that we get to use the facilities that we get in our building story to make sure that and then when you drop down these common expenses um across a lot of utilities there that's expenses sorry we had we recoup the veterinary expenses being reasonably necessary to the life or health of the livestock which the judge is not so sure we could do um very major change of the next page of livestock um we went back okay so in an article we discussed about what should be included in livestock and don't forget that there is the definition of livestock in active species those what it is was a close to that definition and took out things that we don't want to include like I think it said uh farm trout for example yeah yeah let them run wild there are some things we want to add is that again the language about sheltering that we have the authority to ensure that these animals are properly sheltered section five on the next page is entirely new compared to the old one um and the one that says repeated violations so this authorizes the select order to take further steps I think most of this is the same as it was in the last version you saw it that the Joe added some lawyer-like language here in number two I think he uh cleaned up some of the language I had about okay so is there so this thing about um first offense second offense third offense if it happens once is like what happens I mean it's it's an offense if it happens once right like at what point does impoundment happen and um when does the talent take action like do people get like a three strikes you're out or does this document talk about that or well this is that I mean absolutely no changes to that one so at the end I have to read it very carefully I remember reading it several months ago I think my changes on the decision that the judge wrote that that point that would be an advocacy in our ordinance and there was no um no interference about this one or if I could do so I think it was working fine and I didn't fix it okay um John you were well just I don't want to speak well I can best speak to the most recent situation very current situation too um in that case the the owner of the livestock it was a simple matter the owner of the livestock refusing to corral and keep the horses in people owner of livestock said no I'm going to set my horses free no I'm my horses have a right they're they're mother nature's children or whatever so and and then that was what happened it wasn't just an idol threat that's what was in play every day so that was an easy one I don't know if we had somebody who brought them in and they got out and brought them in and they got out but every time they made an effort the way you're going to treat as long as the owner makes an effort a real effort to impound them and um serious effort and if they happen to get out again then they make a serious effort again then then that's okay it's just when the owner refuses you know right so this language doesn't require that if somebody who has you know good fencing and a good system has one horse get out once it institutes any action it's for the owner who's either disinterested or a thoroughly responsible so I only have other Anne quickie question are you still me yes you from me um under the repeated violation of the ordinance do you think that prior to releasing impounded animals the town should receive payment but the way it's written it sounds like they will they will pay but in theory the animals would be given back prior to that so under the repeated violation of the ordinance so under a it says so under b it says following impoundment of livestock and release the owner shall reimburse the town but it wasn't clear to me if they shall reimburse prior to getting the animals back but it says and prior to releasing the livestock and the owner right following the further impoundment of livestock for the repeated violations of this ordinance and prior to releasing the livestock to the owner the sidewalks may be closed at additional turns so someone else who says that um they have to pay prior to releasing okay where is that the recording I should have made sure that was because you know like the court so many things we weren't allowed to so I appreciate this document very much okay is there a motion to adopt the ordinance so moved second okay further discussion and we'll call the role of Jordan yes Gabrielle yes Jamie yes and Tulin yes and Anne Winchester yeah okay that is adopted thank you guys awesome do we need to just a print clarification the copy we have doesn't have signature lines on it do we need to have in a minute yeah if it's an ordinance there doesn't need to have a signature on it so okay I was just curious I know some have signatures on them and some don't okay all right hurt is calm damn you guys come up come up for a different road uh and Winchester we have Pauline and Marge and um Rene Rene Rene hi Rene I'm Gabrielle nice to meet you you know all of us hi so just to set the stage um the current spawn association has decided to recommend that we be prepared to issue an RFP for repair of the dam in September 2023 in anticipation of applying to the bond bank in November 2023 and doing the work in 2024 in addition the current spawn association has reviewed an agreement delineating their responsibilities and select board responsibilities this has been reviewed by the town bond council and by that and Winchester I think you mean our new bond council I do correct okay so that's the context and what do you want to tell us hello um is with much frustration and disappointment that come the Colleen and we need the CPA has come to the conclusion that we can't get the the permits and everything ready in time to to construct in the summer we are on a very small window um have to be ready for June and have to be done by October and the permits are taking longer I've been taking a long time and they don't look we had hoped a couple weeks ago it's not like we were we had hoped we might be able to get it in but a few things have come up and it's just not going to be doable and so we're we are disappointed and frustrated because we worked really hard to try to be able to do the construction this summer but we're recommending that we wait until next summer to do the fix but we would still like to go out to bed as soon as we can we threw a September date out there but if we can do it earlier that that's fine with us but that way we can make we the contractors will be able to um get it on their schedules for next year so we don't want to wait until January and then go out to bed if we can go out as soon as we can as soon as we feel good that we can release the RFP that we would like you know we'd like to go out so that we can get people someone lined up for next year so that's kind of if you want any specific information about specific permits the major issue is the spillway over the dam right now it's five feet um dam safety and the engineers are recommending we increase it to 10 feet for safety reasons this is the historical folks although they haven't weighed in they they would don't but they would like to keep the spillway the way it is so they have the the three groups have to work out what we can do maybe they'll come back and say we only need five feet and we can go or we can go to 10 feet who knows but i don't see that we can get that those agreements come together in time to do it for the summer and that's not the only one there's six permits and we do not have one but that's the major thing it's at all for lack of us to drive um it's the age old too much work and not enough people's i think in the engineering and the state and we have had it as a high priority but i think i'm through seven knots so um yeah and i don't mean that one to be the only one yeah that's the only one of six but we do not have any yeah so um there just hasn't been much response from the various agencies there haven't been any other back and forth other than the spillway design when last we had a conversation with um do boys and king and they were they were feeling like everybody the questions were all you know promising but it was just taking a long time to kind of work through the conversations and the clarifications it seems like that's still kind of the case i think how about that it was with the engineering too though yeah they were not getting there it wasn't just the state yeah by any means yeah the the we have a couple permits the shoreline and uh endangered and threatened one that i would expect will have tentatively and i'm a tentative approval by the beginning of june but the problem for both of that it's not really problem is that almost all of them they have to go out and have a public hearing so they have they can't just approve it and it's time they've got they can approve it and say but okay now we have to open it up for the public to comment on it kind of like what we were dealing with earlier what's that so that's a dc public hearing yes after they actually approve but but then but you know uh jeff tiger was insinuating that he was waiting on ben greens changes when and then i talked to ben green after a meeting i had uh at the with vision game uh for the endangered species and he was well i'm waiting on two boys and kings so there's a little bit of i'm waiting on this no i'm waiting on you no i'm waiting on you but indeed they're all understaffed and you know it's it's it's a broken market these days but it is in seems to be in all the fields so we've given up the ghost for this year but we want to keep the momentum going and get the rp out there and we will certainly keep up on these terms you know we're not going to sit back and take the summer off or anything like that and we and we do feel bad that we pulled out a pressure on you guys but we did feel that it was we we put we had to put more pressure on the other folks too but yeah either we just um we just couldn't get it done so um thinking about a couple of things that um i know saundra was working on the bond application has she been informed do you know yes okay do you want to make it first i was i when you guys were finished i was going to ask a clarifying question on behalf of saundra our town treasurer when she saw this on the agenda she said i have been working feverishly on this at may 15 deadline so her question for tonight is does that mean she no longer has his may 15 deadline i already wrote to her about that and i do want to clarify that this is a recommendation it's not a decision we wanted to make the decision with all of the group which is why we haven't really notified anyone because we didn't feel that we were the ones to make everybody you guys need to vote on it it's just our recommendation so yeah okay so there's there's working on the um there's working on the bond application there's also the immediate immediate thing other than the permits and everything else was the transactional low legal documents of the um the landowners where are we at with that that's going to be in maloney's yeah office i think right and mark mark is not here i think mark and thomas maloney will be the principles there okay i'm telling you that thomas thomas is working on those but he won't count given that we're likely to go down the project right and one of the things we we still want to keep pushing but it might not be i have to push for may 15th and and we could not tell people not to do stuff until right we all discussed it and decided yeah okay um i'm just wondering is there any world in which the may 15th bond application gets the gets us the permits faster no so then we should definitely relieve saundra of the harry rush to unless she's almost done i don't know it's my understanding from previous conversations is that you can do the bond application and after you receive it within a certain amount of time say the project's been delayed we want to push this to the next bonding amount um i don't know if that increases or you know decreases your standing with the bond bank and how they're viewing your project um but i don't know if there would be you know i think the goal would be to get in the definitely get in the november pool so that we had the funds available to start first thing in the spring once it's dry enough um whether or not we we push and get in the first one and then delay or or delay the bonding i don't know strategically i don't know how the bond bank works but what we found the permits was we put them in and then we found out more and acted on that and then found more and acted on that so i don't know how the bond bank works so i wouldn't i'm not advocating for may versus november but i'm advocating that we keep right going on this so i believe it's the it's the may application for the november pool or is it uh the may for july may for july and then for november or november that's very much great so so we we would want the money by february um because potentially the work can start is it june one or june 30 june one um so we definitely wouldn't want to wait till the the next spring deadline yeah um right but yeah i don't know enough about it to know it seems to me like marge was saying you learn a lot from folks once they get your first application and so i don't know how far along sandra is in the process and what what her feeling on the matter is um i talked with her about it this morning i don't i also don't know how far along she is she's been given lots and lots of projects and she's prioritized them so this one had the may 15th deadline but it sounds like maybe and has talked with sandra since i talked with sandra this morning is that correct and w yes that's correct do you know how far along she is or you want to fill us in with your conversation with her late after i talked to her this morning it was simply an email stage in which she said hey what's going on and i told her what's going on and says uh you know pending the decision tonight i think you can slow down and work on another project she and she didn't indicate how far along she was with it would you repeat that please oh how far along did sandra say she was with the project we did not talk about that so the good news is that still hasn't today it was high on her priority list so it's not like she's gone off of it yet i guess the question that i would have for sandra probably know this more better than anybody would be how how useful is the work that she's doing now or how applicable is the work that she's doing now to an application for the november slash February distribution so if if she is close or if she's had a prioritized my understanding of the bonding process is that you can withdraw it before it's in the pool so if something significant happens uh between may 15th and the closing of the pool in June that that that somehow changes the price brings into something some major consideration not that it would it doesn't seem i think it's encouraging that it doesn't seem like there's anything that's being flagged at this point so it would seem like if she's pretty close to it and they're um and it's all very applicable to to work that would otherwise have to be done in November and we just kind of keep her on the task and if we need to withdraw before the pool closes mid-summer then we can do that right i this probably isn't necessarily a decision that we have to vote on so perhaps the best bet would be one of us and i'm happy to do it or somebody else wants to to have a conversation with sandra in the next day or two um and get her take and just lay this out and say the goal is to have the money in the you know November February pool strategically you know both strategically for the project and realistically for sandra's time is it better to keep going and do this fresh application or is it better to to get in the next round and and sort of leave it in her court a little bit because she she's done it before and knows more about the strategy than we do yeah she did say she's working way way way more than 20 hours a week yeah so um i have the feeling she might have other priorities to put forward if it's not an imminent May 15 which is a week from today oh my gosh so okay um so what if folks think we want to authorize um and i think we put together a motion and i just wrote something up and you guys can choose to use it or not use it what i i gave as a motion approval for the select board and the cpa to continue preparing a request for proposal with all its accompanying documents and permits for first time here repair project they are we will not be released into the votes until they they vote they vote they are approval at the early select board meeting after preparation and the review is completed but with the goal of no later than i put our cover first we can put anything we put in artist for September 1st whatever you want i know it's too wordy but i did something to begin with so i didn't make a copy for everybody so okay well there's also there's also the mo you to um approve and sign it that's a that would be a separate yeah so this is for concerning for i think what we're recommending is we don't worry about trying to get it done this year but what i keep pushing is and put it out to get as quickly as possible yeah yeah that's too wordy or not wordy you know you can so i guess the the part of this conversation we haven't had yet is about the rfp um which which um thomas maloney has looked at um there was a little bit of back and forth did did his suggestions went to went to jeff tucker jeff tucker was okay with that but we haven't made we we wanted to find out what you guys wanted to do um tonight before we right the the biggest change going by memory here but the biggest change was whether or not the rfp ties the select board requires the select board to take the minimum the lowest bid or gives um thomas recommended that we change the language to give us a little more flexibility on which which um proposal to accept which be able to accept based on other factors than just the price which made sense to me yeah absolutely so i i think you all saw those the other changes were pretty small so i think in this motion we should um the right to accept or reject anything right so sort of it sort of authorized jeff tucker to to make the changes that um was maloney recommended yeah um and i don't know if we have to have another meeting or if we're ready to say as soon as the rfp is finalized we are okay putting it out and i'm not a hundred percent sure to me do you guys need to make a motion to go down but we all wanted to make sure everybody was in agreement about about what we just discussed so yeah i mean i think i think it makes sense there are no permits and the and the bond application is a weak firm today um so yeah i think we have to slow down because of the permits sorry for you guys all the work you've done um but it does seem promising also that it's just going to be well lined up for next year yeah and there are some theories on whether it might it might be more expensive trying to push it this year versus next year because um but and then there's theories that well it's a wild card yeah it's a lot of work it's a lot of 20 percent yeah so we are taking a risk but um well we're not taking it it's almost a bum all right yeah so i don't know whether we need a vote or not but um yeah i guess the question is i mean i don't think we need a vote to say yes jeff tucker should make the changes to the rfp at some point we'll need a vote to put out the rfp and the question is whether or not we do that tonight pending those changes being made or if we wait i don't know what our process should be and i feel like we should like have the rfp in our documents if we're going to vote on it so i'd like to see the changes get made and yeah okay have it on the agenda and one thing to think about also is at the time when we make those when you guys vote on that do we have to make sure that the permits are all the way through approved or have kind of we've gotten the blessing from the but we don't have the full permit because of the public time frame so there'll be some i think my understanding of the rfp is we can kind of put all kinds of conditions in there subject to financing and bond approval subject to final permitting approval you know i think as a as as a matter of just kind of due diligence at this point it seems like we have a little time cpa is recommending that we consider putting out a an rfp in september for for the next year and we need a you know we're now holding pattern with the permits so i think it it seems like we have some time to make the changes dial in the rfp and and sometime between now and september decide whether because the tricky situation with the rfp is as soon as we accept it make a decision about making it public then that starts a clock on a on a pretty formal process so if if we're if we're going to wait until we have a little bit more clarification or just start getting some of the permits in then we might see how that kind of unfolds over the next couple of months and then we're in no worse position to get the rfp out i would suggest that the one thing we let the parties decide what to do about the spillway because that's going to be that could be a design that could be a design change but that that decision and so we don't issue it until they work that through not necessarily that they approved it but you know just verbally say hey we've got this figured out and here's the design change who are the parties again well uh the um damn safety and deep um Du Bois and King have a design with it 10 feet the historical groups sorry 10 feet wide 10 feet high 10 feet wide okay this is wide enough which is what it is like wide oh okay and we change the appearance so hence the historical preservation is concerned so if we if they can work it out so that they can come to an agreement on how wide it should be then we can feel pretty confident we can move forward because it sounds like seven and a half but i mean until that gets resolved even if it's not on paper i think we're not going to know what the the designs are really big so it seems like the only action we're really considering tonight is if we're want to sign this official agreement which is sort of a update to the MOU that last select board signed so forget my word yeah that's fine um has everybody reviewed this updated MOU satisfactory right and just so you know all of the executive board on the CPA saw the resolution and made comments and so there everyone is the first finance association executive board has approved it who's the president Colleen Colleen he's the secretary on the treasurer and then we have what's the seven of us okay so do we need a promotion for me to i don't care you know she's gone to the other side i'll make a motion that authorizing Gabrielle to sign the agreement with the CPA on the Curtis Curtis Dan second he's been seconded yes dude is there a second oh i thought you were seconded okay i'm seconded okay sorry further discussion correct and this is just an agreement between the two groups it's not the pathway to get the Curtis it's kind of like who just wanted all that so rather than confusing the public confusing everyone we'd like to the old one be third to the MOU and this being a agreement i think that makes a lot of sense okay all right i'm gonna call the roll jordan uh yes and Gabrielle yes uh jamey i am going to abstain okay and anthulian yes and winchester okay i'm signing it and i can hand it to Colleen can i the i would accept that the town office needs a copy so i need to be able to scan it colleen has to sign it and then all right and what are we doing next okay 45 hours late three fourths um roads jamey and am might i have a quick thing on the water that just came up this afternoon next year i need to see that document before i can start typing on the next item i don't know what this agreement thing is okay sorry yeah so i'm sorry i'm sorry if you can just give me two seconds oh i think i have a copy of this in my thing so it's just called the agreement yeah the agreement the agreement between cps agreement dated 58 thank you yeah the agreement dated by thank you thank you very much i apologize okay all right so quickly um we had had the water tested once they cleared filtration uh who's that's done it before had done it um but they only checked for bacteria specifically like to see if there was any it wasn't tested for whether it was hard or any other things just um if it was bacteria and there was not the guys are still uncomfortable drinking it earlier today someone from the east calis fire district because i can't recall at the top of my head we have looked at the cost of doing further testing for some of those things that other people might want in a potable water situation um and the east calis fire district bop the guys had come in and talked to me earlier today and seen it on the thing and said that they might be able to do regular testing of our systems and they would be willing to add on throwing a test for them as well um under our banner which might be more economical than going to the other folks i'll just hey thank you i'll just add that i spoke with john about this on saturday and um he said that regardless of what tests say it tastes bad and they don't want to drink and they're perfectly happy continuing to stop at walmart once a week where one of them goes anyway and pick up a jug of water for the shot that's what purpose they're like i don't care what the test results come back we're not drinking that water and the filtration system is pricing would be expensive and they're not going to use right and it might not improve the taste and the taste is the problem so i think if that's a solution they're happy with i don't see any reason to we know the water is safe which feels like a due diligence and well i asked if it was tested for metals because i've had a personal experience where our water was undrinkable and unusable because of metals yeah and it might be i mean ten minutes from fuel and oil over the years or something who knows yeah i mean i think as long as overall safety bacteria that might be something to discuss more later if we are looking for potability but are looking for even exposure physically and whatnot to washing our hands if there's things in there that might be problematic um but if we're cool doing the they like the bottle six dollars a jug last like a week so i i just don't see a need to keep testing and spending money on systems if it's not gonna it's not their desire Tegens with the east palace water district can you answer if their test would include testing for minerals do you know i think we ask they offer all sorts of testing options and we sort of say we want this that and the other thing tested for uh companies and i know we can look them up that's where we go yeah we'll use those two menus it's the only game in town it seems like a big burden to me going and getting bottled water from walmart and john's like we don't care we don't might do in it so he just blew it off he said we'd rather just wait just to get bottled water he did and i grab it when i can and i can carry the jugs so i didn't want to get in there i can do it so you know yeah it's it's doable and it's i think relatively cost effective for the the price because they get the reusable jugs and that's what they seem to want yeah it is what they want road signs radar signs we're stuck with those sides unless we find someone to buy them right so the the road signs the company has a no return policy and so we we do not have the opportunity to return the signs that's what eric wolf told the guy keith cuban mr kate keith cuban i've looked on their website their website doesn't say they have a no return policy that that mr wolf knew that we were wanting to return these signs so i know but that i spoke with the road for this morning um and they had said it's pretty standard fare with something that involves electronics that is not returnable it's like well thanks for letting us know earlier like i've been happening with this poor guy as far like don't you know how this works um but with those signs they were supposed to send some callers to increase the stability which they have it i emailed him today they can weld them to the base and he basically i think originally they were hoped to be movable and pragmatically they're gonna have to be basically permanent i think and even with that without the callers the technique to keep them upright it's gonna automatically start to weaken it um because they would have to bore through the thing it had to fit in that base so the collar would help its longevity because it's really don't want to have something that pricey put it up and have it fall over in a year or something and are they so unresponsive that you can't just get them to be like hey you have a no return policy which you didn't tell us right off the bat and we've been spending all this energy so can you give us some callers like is that a thing but they look at the colors he went to it because he had said yes we have them on order and yes and i was hoping he would respond and then i could also let him know it would have been really nice if he had responded to either the multiple phone calls between jamie and i and or emails that jamie and i had sent about returning the items because there's a lot of spent energy that we didn't have to spend yeah so the callers are still on back order i have no idea okay but they were they were already purchased right so they it wasn't add-on because they weren't i think in part of the original order but they are something that is necessary to keep it stable because it's very tall and top-heavy and how many do we have how many do we have right our science jamie probably knows better than me i was just trying to pull it up i don't have it right handy but i believe the the select the the original order was for either four or five that were considered permanent installations and then two that were supposed to be mobile and the two that were supposed to be more portable are slightly shorter poles with slightly smaller signs and the that's what we ordered and that's what we got in the original proposal for the order if you look back at the select board minutes outline where they were supposed to go which we could revisit or we could just go with would they be used for the traffic study are they compliant with what they would use for the the cvrpc traffic study the um regional planning uses a different type of device they do the strips across the road but right this would give us the information we'd need to be called a traffic study so i my feeling at this point you know the other option that's come up is there are dot has a sort of municipal roads craigslist it's going to say that it's going to say craigslist facebook market place classifies so it's it's been suggested that we theoretically could try to resell them i think we wouldn't recoup because what town's going to buy them at full cost without the warranty or whatnot at this point i feel like they're useful they should be installed yeah and we should just start using them yeah my understanding of the situation is we've identified both in our last meeting and the previous select board identified the roads that are of the previous need of attention and enforcement and i know you know it seems sufficient to try to gain some sort of mobility but how how often are we actually going to move them and so i don't think focusing on that mobility let's let's get them installed we we ordered them that they're going to provide really good information you know i i like the course of action that we were on with the road study and assessment of the speeds but these are going to be a valuable tool in us having conversations with uh uh the sheriff's department in the meantime to enforce the speed limits that are already on the roads well who's looking at the data is somebody does one of us have to look at the data i think it's something we can pull off as um toby has the app on his phone so there's already two in these callas i think one in each direction yeah and there's one in maple corner at the bottom of the hill is that solar uh-huh um and toby can just walk up to it and push buttons on his phone and download the data and use it from there yeah all right well good to know that's the update and yeah i say like the sooner they get use the less of a thing they'll be of like oh what a drag this whole thing was and let's just yeah get it going um i guess did you come to speak about speed uh i know you're listening because i want to make sure you guys are still on the same speed limit as i was kind of you know going in that direction so okay because we had had folks come in earlier so we we had a lengthy chat earlier but i knew that was probably why you're here so when i'm on three you said seven 15s i think it'd be a little late anyway i hope that you continue what you're doing sounds like we're gonna wait the right track all these problems but you know uh basically you're gonna continue with these speed studies um and i don't really have a few people where something kind of front-ports for i think it's each road is individual and where you can go fast on some roads we call it fast on other roads you shouldn't i need my own personal i drove down like you drove today and as you go on the top of the hill three is doable you get about 12 caravans 25 is is safe uh because you've got road arrows there it's short turns we um pass my house it's just all the bottom of the hill and you know it's it's why you're here about 25 is a very safe speed yes you know i didn't step on the gas i didn't go in a crazy person um that's what i said and i don't know what that is but i'm saying the speed limit should be reduced there i think um i'm hoping that when they do the study that through my potholes like quite frankly when the potholes are there in this last couple of weeks i had a woman stopping on where i was walking to there's a town owner trainer it was raining a lot yes but the point being is the better the smoother the road the faster they go and so i've accomplished that so hope that uh it leads to the roads pretty badly okay any other road updates can i just may i please just i want to be sure you all know this is my morning in he is a retired attorney he's a palace justice of the peace and the board the chain of our board of civil authority so michael this is your new select ward in your new town clerk sounds like uh we may be calling on the board of civil authority near future so i just want to make sure to do this piece today that's all because i i my personal crusade i think they're going i've lived there 28 years and it's turning into a boss right down here got it hi thanks for coming um i already have another road update okay that's okay um lady last week i got a visit from john and dana who had gotten a call um about a town owned wooden bridge on stillbrook road services three houses i believe um there was a chimney fire at one of the homes last week um of the three fire trucks that responded uh toby was the only driver uh that felt safe crossing the bridge in a fire truck um and he only did it because he knew a town truck had gone over it recently um after that report from the fire department uh the road crew went over and scraped enough gravel off the bridge to get a good look at it and found a significant amount of rot in places that you could i mean they showed me pictures you could put your fork right through the uh planks that you're supposed to drive across uh it was deemed quite dangerous i had a dense of conversation with toby about it and that was his opinion as well um they went to rough cut lumber sawmill that they've used before whose name i can't remember fontane thank you he's just there today um and got an estimate uh for materials it was in the ballpark of uh twenty one hundred dollars um and i discussed with toby and approved the expenditure so they ordered the lumber uh they will do the work themselves for the repair they're the the steel beams that support the whole thing are intact and safe um so they're replacing uh like a few long pieces that go the whole way and then all their crosshatch boards um there was a a discussion about rough cut versus pressure treated uh pressure treated might last a little bit longer but it would be significantly more expensive and a long delay to get in the dimensions that they need um and so toby and i and uh john and dana all agreed that going with the rough cut was the way to go so wouldn't pressure treated release arsenogenics into the work not really if it's suspended and not um not submerged um but pressure treated probably know more about this than i do is really um the the protected is designed for wood that's going to be submerged and so the value in a suspended bridge is significantly less than it would be if it was permanently submerged in water okay well thank you for doing that um rh documents and emails jordan uh well the office uh i believe has all of their uh emails set up and there still might be a couple lingering uh training opportunities for folks who are going to have uh office computers uh and the uh applications installed on their uh on their computers so i assume that those are kind of getting work through and oriented um as as needed do you guys have any comments on how things are going or specific needs no and it's complicated just keeping track of who's unworded and who's not yeah definitely email at least i know i have a email someone half an hour earlier but you actually have an email uh so that uh has been kind of top of mind for me over the over the last week and uh and i think refreshing that list and having kind of a directory there were certain accounts that we decided to uh to table um that were at the bottom of that list and and just within the last day uh jamie and i were talking about maybe wanting to add one of those back on there so i think we just kind of need an updated list to to circulate uh the last bit were i think the um select board emails uh earlier this morning i circulated uh the credentials for the select board uh logins and um i think the best way to go through it would just be to allow everybody to explore the email access and doing that through the web browser and uh applications and then as we kind of get used to the ecosystem uh start to explore trying to get some of the desktop applications going the other big thing to sort out is going to be the shared documents which um uh there before we just start dumping things on there right now the way that everything's been set up everybody is in the same organization but that's not necessarily how we want the shared documents to work the select board documents should be uh reserved for the select board group and uh and there might be some cross pollination there but i'm still kind of working through with holland how to set that up and i was just this week or at the end of last week given um the rights to start manipulating those things um which i previously didn't have so now my account allows me to set those things up and i'd like to do that before we just start migrating content on there because it could be kind of messy to untangle um if we just so if we can kind of keep working with the google drive for the select board uh shared documents um and if anybody has an issue logging in to their email account certainly let me know but at this point i think everybody has what they need to start accessing their emails so you can start using those is that i'm in mine anna and are you in yours have you tried um i was going to try up here in the internet that's strong enough to get the app to download so i could work on it tomorrow to do is kind of jamming prior to coming here so but i feel confident in very detailed instructions even i would follow that myself i think uh so one of the things that i'll just kind of reinforce uh so again the recommendation is to at the moment uh just go through a web browser for accessing outlook um the web browser use uh requires authentic two-step authentication um so you'll need a ideally it's easiest if you have a smartphone download the authentication app make sure that it's the microsoft one uh if you look it up in uh in either the app stores um uh and then sign into that first you'll only need to do that the first time right now it's not it's not an enforced policy however it's coming down the bike and it's not going to be something that we can uh change it will likely only be applied to web browser usage so we might want to have a conversation later on about about desktop usage of the apps to kind of alleviate some of that pressure but at the moment you just need that authenticator for initiating the first sign in and then you'll be good to go do you have passwords for your email accounts i'm stealing yes so i have passwords for the temporary passwords for just the uh select board accounts they're a pattern to those temporary passwords we were never given any password Holland specifically said we didn't make passwords it says we can't get into one drive without a password then there's something i was going to put my picture on there so that i have a picture of my email address it's like what's your password no it's like but he set it up when i was not in the office and i just haven't gotten him on the phone to ask him so i didn't know if it was like yeah everyone's initial password is one two five seven whatever i well so there was there are two steps so uh the Holland's um through an application that rb had um sent a link that gave you access to a temporary password that was um that that basically had a a timer on it to use it um so i went through that same thing and had to reset a password um but the rest of them were static because they didn't go through that um so you can if you don't have a password or for whatever reason it's not syncing with your account and giving you access i would reach out to Holland um at the moment yeah so i haven't been given access to all of the passwords i don't think that that would likely be appropriate uh no it's more just like for for the onboarding if like everyone's password is something simple sometimes things that for the initial and then they walk off right yeah welcome by everyone does that and then they're on but i that's i i email Holland today and i haven't heard back from them and i just thought i'd like to see this yeah i so the other part of it is that i don't have um access to like the back and administrative portal um uh and rb does um and and they can very easily make changes to those like in real time so if anybody is having access issues for one reason or another let me know or the office should feel free to reach out to to rb directly to try to get passwords reset that should be pretty easy for them so should we not individually like me or the rest of slack work should we not reach out to rb we should reach out to you uh i'm no i'd be happy to give you their contact information you can you can i think they'd probably prefer that uh that i'd be a point of contact but if it's something like that i can't i can't do anything about it anyway so i'm gonna have to connect you with them if it's just like basic training and troubleshooting and trying to sort out what we what we do or don't want to use from like features or how to set things up like i can help with that but if it's more technical like resetting the password or something like that that will have to be rb and we'll just make sure that we have a point of contact should i reach out to them for the webmaster email credentials yes yep so starting tomorrow are all four of you and the and winchester included all five of you now using your new callus vermont.gov email addresses i will be i'm not i'll be on by tomorrow i just the internet doesn't work here well enough to pull down the app that you have to use to do the thing but can you send us like a celebratory i'm in so we have your in i will do my best yes okay but then the other three i mean we're looking for specific for member body yep your end your end yes okay what about the callus how about the select board at callus vermont.gov um so that's just a distribution list and that goes to all of those accounts so all of those accounts are are active and receiving emails it's just a question of whether or not people are signing into checking them so we all should be at this point um the distribution list just goes to all select board members and uh and you i believe um but it's but it's where does that speak so we can tell people is it is it activated is it ready yes on the website yes okay what about the listers and the zoning administrator well let's talk to them well i'm just asking if they're if they're up and running last i so all of the i don't know if the individual listers or uh the zoning administrator are using their account i know that uh holland has uh tried to spend time to get them uh acquainted with them they they do work um as they've been proposed uh and there haven't been any changes so i guess at this point i would say we should we should ask them specifically well and go public with them and say they've been activated and they are public and if you need assistance with um getting access or getting uh oriented then then they should they should ask now is the time to ask because we're gonna we need to do we can't just kind of keep trickling them out that's not going to work very well great it seems like we need a public notice on the homepage of the website that that lists them all and i know that i have mixed feelings i know that there's hesitation among some of us about putting that well i don't know now that we have these individual ones are each select board members should should i list each select board members on the website i know i would like to list mine because i'm still getting lots of wait people want to email me about something on the select board and they know my personal email or they're able to find my personally mail from frontport forum i would think that our town ones would be personally i would want my town one to be listed on the town so that people are more likely to use it instead of my personal one i don't know how other people feel about that no i would rather have mine up there but i i was thinking that maybe um barbara could we could get all those through the select board email and barbara could be looking at them and handing them off to the right person um but jordan would we even be able to respond to something that comes through the select one email or would we have to do that with our own email the way if it's set up now i would have to check with holland to see how the right now like the the default way a distribution list is going to work is that anytime any anybody any one of us responds to that it's going to send out an email to the whole group and it's just going to treat it as as an instant so you know i think it's a it's a good one to have public but for open meeting reasons and just for continuity in conversation it which we we wouldn't want to be responding to that are using that for for kind of broader communication that's what i would suggest that barbara is to be sure that she sends the email to herself with people which in some cases would be for us and then we then would only respond with our own personal email so that we don't wind up with these complicated threads that you have to read through 15 emails to remember what the point was now so people um in my case i was just thinking of giving them my personal email that people would email the select board staff and then barbara would look at them as they came in and decide who needs to get these and something that was probably only to care in terms of like the road decision in some it might be all of us and then she will forward this to the appropriate people who would then use their personal emails to respond they would not respond through the select board email you're talking about our personal select board emails yes i am sorry your personal our personal like so what anyway my personal but weren't you saying jordan that if somebody if if rose emails select board at callus vermont.gov it doesn't just go to a select board to an inbox that's just that address but rather it goes to all of our personal select board addresses yeah so it's a it's a distribution but so it'll it'll go out to everybody who's on the distribution list there might be a way that we can turn off how like the people's ability to respond to that so it may not be something that that only pushes it doesn't receive emails back or that we could receive emails back to i'm not quite sure how that would work but but we we could treat it as a dedicated inbox that i just think that there's some efficiency in having so that for instance if if rose wanted to circulate the minutes all at once and didn't necessarily want to send but you know there's not many of us so i don't know that it necessarily needs needs to be treated as a distribution list it needs to be maybe a generic repository for emails that are just kind of coming in from either outside organizations or gets you know subscribed to certain things or for the public to email into it and there's some sort of filter that that we could set it up so it is a dedicated inbox that is within Barbara's a list of accounts and it would keep things separate and she could filter them but that that's kind of uh kind of a conversation about the workload conversation that we'll have to have from Barbara yeah that i don't know that seems a little ownerless to me that's what i was thinking and i just know from my personal the way i operate you know before i was on the select board i'd be much more likely to to go and look at the list of select board members and say oh i know jordan we have this connection i'm going to email him and might feel more comfortable sending that email to one person who i know versus to a generic email that goes to the whole board which feels more i don't know more official than a little daunting first for some people my concern is if somebody writes to the select board email and we all respond through that we're going to wind up with these impossibly long chains right so i was trying to get around that we could all have access to the select board email but we would only respond with our personal select board email but the whole board doesn't reach it oh yes i hear what you're saying so it's not like i don't reply all yeah i don't know i guess my only concern with that is that if there's not clear communication over like who is supposed to be kind of going through the inbox and or who is taking a particular message that if people are just kind of sporadically checking in and out of it that it could get kind of unruly to manage agreed agreed which is why i thought maybe Barbara could be an eight-team person um Barbara are you still there is that sound terribly on your heels am i still wide she's asking if the idea of parsing out the email sounds like too much work yeah and i actually talked about it last week and um i'm i'm having to do it anyway you want to nothing's written in stone once you make a decision it's not written in stone we can try it one way or a week or two and if it's not working switch it and you see see the select or email account i don't know go oh Jordan answered that email and then not engage like that might be the indication is that first reply you do kind of reply to those like word as a sign of like hey guys i got this and then the rest of you would know okay if they need me they'll come find me kind of a thing because i've been trying to puzzle out how you guys are going to do this too and i know what i'm talking about was a great way to do it yeah and i think it largely depends on whether or not we we make the rest of the email addresses like listed on the website under the select board so like if there aren't individual addresses on the website then that that whether it's a distribution list or an inbox is going to get more heavily used because that's the that's the public point of contact for the initial whatever and then but if if we put our contact information on there and it's just treated as a distribution less than maybe it's not it's not something that gets us heavily used and people starts naturally kind of and i don't have a strong opinion i guess about whether or not mine is on there or not on there i i see both sides and the only thing that i'll kind of throw in is that anytime you put a an email address on a website it can automatically get trawled by the internet and and that increases the potential for spam and and phishing so it becomes a security issue so if you can kind of direct a lot of that towards a more generic point about reach then that that does help so i'm wondering what if the select board at tell us from my dot go didn't go to all five of you but it came to me and jamie who specifically would like to see the emails and she could be like this select board rep who's also seen all the emails and how they're being handled i mean i'd like to see the emails too i yeah it's been a very quiet couple of weeks and i feel really not in yeah i was kind of like this let me have a conversation with rv tech this week and i'll figure out what what we can and can't do with distribution lists or shared inboxes we can definitely set it up as a shared inbox that just appears in each one of and it'll be separate so we can probably do that as well i just don't know the logistics the ins and outs of it to speak to it more specifically but we've had a similar discussion about it so in the meantime i think jamie needs to understand his webmaster if she's going to list her email address on the select board page what did what did each of you want done with your email addresses do you want to post it on the website select work page i actually don't and i i i feel like no news is good news so i'm not one that's looking for more emails i know i'm going to get more emails but i get plenty of emails yeah i hear you so is it did jamie's going to figure out how to post some and not post others or are we going to decide not to post any and they'll get out there right right i mean or or i mean you you serve multiple roles and your email address is going to be listed as webmaster and you're also listed on the select board page as being a select board member so i mean it doesn't say jamie morby's select board account it just says jamie jamie morby's uh callus vermont dot gov account so wherever you choose to publish that you know people can can find it so i think that's a that's that's an alternative as well are you have phone numbers there instead no we have no contact information on the website it's all my it's all my address to this point and now's when we need to decide if it's going to change yeah we have our phone numbers on the road page jamie and i do right and next year they'll do in the book yeah on the cover right that'll be what we what they decide a little bit yeah but i mean it's just a public i mean it's a reference when i was on the select board i never got tons and tons of calls and right generally i got a phone number and went for a term post but i've got plenty of calls like not since i became template while i was running so yeah if people want to um so do we have decision points to make or not whatever you're gonna do you're gonna talk to rb a little bit about the slack board email and um i mean is there i mean these so ann and jamie if you want your emails posted out i don't really see how that's a problem unless you just will get too many emails that the rest of us would get otherwise i don't know ann winchester do you have a thought about that yeah i was just yeah i'm just wondering allowed if it needs to be you know all of us or you know maybe it's just the chair or maybe it's just the ones who want their thing out there posted like ann tulen and jamie morby um you know as far as what we're posting for contact information on the website well the question is do i think it should be the personal choice that's whether to be on the website uh yeah i guess that is the question i guess that depends on whether or not we have how we use the groupie you know the slack board email um as long as access to that so that we can pick up anything that's appropriate job but that wouldn't mean it's incumbent on each of us to look at them all i guess unless there's a gatekeeper so jordan are you going to want your email address on the website because i'm thinking if it's really just jamie and ann this ann then yours individual callus dot gov callus gov dot awesome bond dot gov email address could be there as select board member and road commissioner with your email address and that separates it from right gabriel and jordan the more people that put their email addresses on the website people are going to figure out the pattern of what the websites are set up and also i think there's just kind of a general continuity and policy element to it too so like i think if there's if there's some there should be all just kind of uh well maybe we can sit on it and i wonder if we can if we can just sit on it for that we can certainly put the uh callus select board at callus vermont dot gov on there it is a good as long as somebody's checking it it right now it's a distribution list so so that means that if someone emails to selectboard dot gov it goes to each of us and barbara each and every man so that's how it's set up right now and it could be tweaked but i think probably speaking for myself uh we might need some time to kind of figure out what we want it to look like use your personal account to email callus right now uh are we really the board at callus vermont dot gov correct now how about now now i got it was that your kid is not running up yes so when i hit reply it goes back to the sender and nobody else when you hit when you jay me hit reply from from my select board email so reply all went but reply all goes to select board at callus right yeah so it isn't automatically good i i replied just to myself hold on a second can you see that reply no why would i be able to see that reply you mean like in my scent right no it's not in my scent so i got jordan what did you just do jordan yeah what did so it it would make sense and it makes sense that you uh so it's a distribution list so i see the distribution list in there and now it started another threat which is the everything that we'd want to avoid right uh because it's a distribution list uh unless you wanted to order people unless you wanted to just yeah pick it up anyway it's 10 to 9 um you're gonna talk to rb tech a little bit so we'll return to this i think i don't think we're ready to make a decision we are sorry it's late i'm getting tired it is um okay just do we have an update on status of shed the callus quickie horse update i'll keep it super tight um methicold he's adorable the foster is adorable um it does have medical issues that we can't do anything about at the moment because she won't give permission um but it still do unless you heard something in the last hour or two to be ending on june 1st firing her doing the things that she is required to be like one guy are home the other day and there's nothing that's happened over there so what's ending on june 1st that is the day for her to complete the remedial actions okay and then which include housing and you know like a whole extent to set up and then she forfeits the animals it doesn't do it and then we can move forward um and to edit the forehand perspective adoptive homes we've um redone the legal agreements with the foster of the three horses the other foster literally had nothing but an email and basically has just been working through the veterinarian they're okay with that um and at this point it's like less than a month so there's not a lot of feeling that we have to go have some binding thing but the other family wanted all that stuff so um and that's where that is did we update on court the last time yeah there's no update on just that they had requested us to just kind of hand them over and she would go to Woodbury and we said no so um and I did advise Woodbury to take a look at her ordinance and to consider and they're working on their own but sorry Helen Woodbury as well so Woodbury she has property already in Woodbury and previously had the animals there there's no nothing to keep them there they would leave and then cross room 14 and be wandering up the road picking up people's other animals they had previously been impounded having left by callus having left the Woodbury property so the feeling was that uh it was not acceptable just to have a promise to to take the animals out of callus um and and never return if that meant that they were going to just be at Woodbury where they would have a high probability of potentially being problem again so uh we are sticking to the remedial actions that have been appellate by the court thus far and there is some dialogue between uh the lawyers but at this point we're just waiting for a June one yeah probably for taking further any further action all right can we have a super quick collective bargaining team update uh yeah we had our first round of our first negotiation meeting so it's the first of however many we need that are closed to the public so we can't really discuss the details but we have set dates for the next few relative to availability of schedules um and we're moving through the process so all right thank you sure okay so um we're not going to do rules and procedures and i'm going to make an executive decision then i'm actually going to begin revising the select four rooms because we have some that work so um okay um motion to adjourn so moved second all right uh do i need a roll call on that i don't know just say i don't think we're good not on adjourn okay all right thank you bye