 I'll call the ninth regular meeting of the 2016 2017 Common Council to order with the clerk Please read the quote for the day. Thank you, ma'am. A person that feels appreciated will always do more than expected Thank you very much. Would the clerk please call the roll for attendance. There are 15 present Alderman Jose is excused Please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all Next we'll move on to the approval of the minutes from our last meeting. Alderperson Donahue Thank you for that motion in support. Those minutes are before us. Is there any discussion? Seeing none. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion passes There are no resignations tonight. We'll move on to Mayor's appointments, City Attorney. There's one appointment. The Mayor hereby submits the following appointment for your confirmation to the Mayor's Neighborhood Leadership Cabinet, Penny Weber. Now does that lie over? Lies over. Okay, that will lie over till our next meeting. Next we'll move on to our program for the evening Marinette County Experience with Opiates and Heroin presented by Judge Kent Hoffman, Branch 2 Circuit Court Judge. Judge Hoffman came to Sheboygan for Marinette County where he had a distinguished 16-year career as a state public defender, haddling juvenile cases, homicide cases, and since 2009 he served as the Assistant District Attorney in Marinette County. Kent's a Sheboygan County native and we're happy to have him back home. Well thank you and thank you for letting me or asking me to address you this evening. As the Mayor said, I am the new Sheboygan County Circuit Court Judge, actually not the newest because Dan Borowski was just sworn in this morning. So I've been on the bench six weeks and I'm no longer the newest judge which is a little strange but it's great to be home. I was asked to speak to you tonight about my experience and the County of Marinette's experience with the heroin issue up there. And as the Mayor said, I was actually ten of the years I was in the Public Defender Agency. I was heading up the Pestigal Office which was Marinette County and then for seven and a half years I was in the District Attorney's Office up there. I was the Assistant District Attorney and I was pretty much exclusively, well not exclusively but a big part of my role was the drug prosecutions. I handled all the higher end drug prosecutions. For those of you who may not be familiar with Marinette County it's roughly about 41,000 people in total. Marinette, the City of Marinette and the City of Menominee, Michigan are basically one city divided by a river. Those two encompass roughly about 21,000 people and Pestigal is just to the west. It's about another 5,000. So in that metropolitan area there you have roughly about 25,000-26,000 people. Starting in about 2007 we had a couple high school girls, 18 years old, who got caught bringing heroin back to Marinette County for distribution. They were prosecuted and were actually sent to prison. That was Marinette County's, the first time at least in all the years I was up there that we heard anything about heroin. That was roughly 2007-2008. During that time, well in the years just after that, 2009-2010, we started seeing a real increase in heroin cases. And if you look at the statistics, and the statistics I'm going to give you tonight are ballpark figures. I didn't have a chance to fact check them and research them, but they're pretty accurate. If you look at 2009-2010, maybe 2011, for the state of Wisconsin, the heroin submissions to the crime lab for testing, either through deaths or possessions or possession with intents to deliver or deliveries of heroin. Milwaukee was number one. I think it was Racine or Kenosha was number two, something right down there. And then Marinette way up in northeast Wisconsin. Well how'd that happen? You would have thought that the progression of heroin would have maybe traveled up either the 41 or the 43 quarter on its way up to northern Wisconsin. But 41,000 people and we were third in the state for the number of submissions for testing in those kind of cases. And it turned out, and I think a lot of the professionals up there would agree, there was a doctor who was essentially what we call a pill mill. He was prescribing anything for very cheap and he was actually federally prosecuted for that in roughly about 2008, 2009, maybe even a couple of years or so earlier. Went to federal prison and he could no longer practice up there. And when that happened, he had been prescribing opiates, drug painkillers, things of that nature for anyone at a very cheap price. When his practice was shut down because of that and he was sent to federal prison, that's when we saw heroin arrive in Marinette County. So that's how we think that the link happened, that it didn't kind of follow a pattern up, it just went from Milwaukee area right up to Marinette. Marinette being 41,000 people, we weren't really equipped to deal with it. Law enforcement's response was very good. We had a lot of cases. I spent probably, I would estimate my average work week was probably about 60 hours. And of that, I was spending probably 30 to 35 hours as a prosecutor. So at least half my time, if not more on drug cases, much less all the other cases we were dealing with. Law enforcement's response, we were real aggressive. Initially, the dealers were actually coming to Marinette, setting up for a day or two and then selling their stuff and going back to wherever they were coming from. Then because of the sentences we were giving in part and maybe some other reasons, the practice switched from them coming up there to the people from Marinette who wanted the drugs going to either Milwaukee or Chicago or places to get it and bring it back. I even went so far as to when we were able to identify drug dealers in Chicago who were dealing in the Marinette area, and by that I mean who the people from Marinette were traveling to to get the drugs. If they were a major source, we actually, I actually charged them in Marinette County with party to a crime of the delivery up there or the possession with intent to deliver up there when those individuals were caught, even though they had never stepped foot in Marinette County. And what we found, we were very aggressive with our prosecutions. It was not unusual that we were getting five years or more on these types of cases as far as confinement time sentences. But we also found at the same time that that didn't in and of itself take care of the issue, the problem continued to grow up there as it did then statewide. We are no different than anywhere else. I think everywhere in Wisconsin now has a heroin issue. We were just hit with it early because of the reasons I said earlier. Being a rural county, we had no treatment options. And when I say we, I mean at the time I was working in Marinette. No real treatment options. There were no inpatient facilities anywhere near there. The treatment providers that we did have were ill equipped or not equipped to handle opiate addictions. And that was something we really needed to to integrate into our approach. While the law enforcement presence and intervention and the prosecutions were good, we were finding that the more it seemed as we were taking someone off the street for dealing, two or three people were replacing that individual. And so we really had to expand our approach to kind of deal with the issue. Community awareness was a big part of that. We handled numerous presentations in the community to make parents to make people aware of the issue. And that was a big part of it. Treatment options, that was something we really needed to get going as well. As I said, we had no local treatment. Parents were frustrated because they'd see their children, children by that, I mean 16 to 20 years old, involved in the heroin trade or in usage and they had nowhere to turn. They had no treatment providers or anything like that. So many of you may have heard of John Nigren. He is a state representative from up there who happens to be co-chair of the Joint Finance Committee. He actually had a daughter who I prosecuted and sent to prison for possession and the reason I recommended a prison sentence and he's very open about this. He's been very influential in developing some of the programs at the state level, attacking the opiate and heroin issues. But the reason I recommend a prison in her case is I had local treatment have been tried and it failed in part because we didn't have the right types of treatment. And I basically recommended a prison and the judge gave her prison in order to save her life. And that was an example of not having the resources in a small area set up. So it hit early, it hit hard and we weren't really at that time set up with it. The other thing I'd note is heroin is not just a low income issue, it hits all walks of life. I have seen and prosecuted people who are working at the shipyard there making very, very good money and they still fell into the addiction cycle with it. In Marinette County we were averaging probably about one heroin overdose death every month. Now remember this is only a county of 41,000 people. It got to the point where when I'd read an obituary in the paper, if the person was under 40 years old, I assumed it was an overdose. I mean that's how common it was. It doesn't mean it was an overdose, that was just the assumption in my mind seeing the age of the person who had died. So we really saw the need I think to expand beyond just the law enforcement approach but to make it kind of an integrated collaborative community effort. And that involved certainly the aggressive law enforcement aggressive prosecutions but getting grants of building treatment options and programs through our human services department through some of the other providers up there. Community approach going into the schools particularly the officers talking about with the kids, the young kids about drugs and about those issues. And the other thing we did as well is one of the big things we started which Sheboygan's now starting was a drug court and we found that to be, it's only about two years old so I'm kind of, I didn't see it. I was one of the founders or founding members of the court up there but I did find that that's a very effective tool to help address the problem. It wasn't, it's not going to solve it but for the people who are in it, it works and it works very effectively if the right persons are put into it and there's studies that show who does best with that type of a program. The other thing we saw developing in Marinette County as a result of that was that the recovery community which would be your NA community, people have been through the addiction and fought it and are still fighting it but who are involved with the NA programs or similar programs that that really got, the recovery community got solidified and really kind of got energized by the drug court and I think it's made our recovery community a lot stronger which has really helped the people who are currently going through it in there and trying to break that addiction cycle. So it very much was a, we found it, it took a collaborative effort, law enforcement, prosecution and but these other programs as well particularly educating the community and providing those treatment options. The other thing we found is that the employers in Marinette County and I should have added in about 2013 Marinette County was actually, the city of Marinette was actually written up twice in the Wall Street Journal and I wish I could tell you that was for their shipbuilding industry or something like that but it specifically had to do with the heroin issue. That's how bad it was up there. Now again that has gone statewide but it's not the way any community wants to make the Wall Street Journal certainly but that shows you how early they were hit there and the article in the Wall Street Journal really talked about the employers in the community and how they stepped forward because they want, they were having problems either keeping employees because of the drug addictions or being able to hire them in the first place because they couldn't pass the test. So the employers, one thing we found was the employers locally were really willing to step up and help with addressing the need for these various aspects that I talked about. So I guess just to kind of summarize the heroin for years, heroin was a big drug long time ago and then you never heard of it. In my early years of practicing we'd see cocaine, we'd see marijuana and then suddenly it came back and the potency today of the heroin is a lot stronger than what it was back in the 60s and 70s when that drug was popular. And one of the risks with heroin and the reason you see so many deaths with it is the potency of it on the streets varies so much. It can vary from day to day and that's why there's such a high risk of overdose and overdose deaths with it. So the other thing, again it hits all walks of life. I think the legislature has really made some good moves lately in the last few years to address some of these as we call them pill mill operations, to address some of the treatment needs particularly in smaller communities. I just want to finish with this quote out of one of the articles. It says in 2013 more Wisconsinites died as a result of drug overdose than from motor vehicle crashes, suicide, breast cancer, colon cancer, firearms, influenza or HIV. And that was according to a report released by the Department of Health Services that was released in 2015. In 2013 statewide there were 843 drug overdose deaths and that I think heroin contributed to well over a quarter of those if not more. So those are just some of my thoughts and my experiences with the heroin issue from when I worked and practiced and lived in Marinette. And I think really the collaborative effort they've taken up there has really been helpful. Again it's not a solution. Everyone statewide is fighting this. It's not just up there. It hits all walks of life as I said. But that's I think if you talk to any of the professionals from Marinette involved they'll agree with that assessment that it really takes a collaborative approach. The other thing we did too I should mention is we got involved very early with the medical community and got them educated about prescription overdose and opiates and things like that. And the legislature has actually taken some steps in legislation in the last few years to address these pill issues as well. So to make sure that the people who are using them and are getting the prescriptions actually need them that they're not just feeding an addiction. So those are my thoughts. I'll stick around. I'll be here till after the meeting. So if you have specific questions I'm more than happy to answer them. I'm also in branch two. If you ever want to talk about this a little further feel free to stop in or call me there. Kent thanks for joining us today and sharing your experience in Marinette County. And welcome back to Sheboygan. Thanks. Next item is public forum. City Clerk. Yes. What else can I have your home address please. 1306 North Third Street Sheboygan. And you will have five minutes. Mayor Van der Steen City Clerk Richards City Attorney Adams Alderman and citizens. I am here to present my annual State of the City's Ambulance Service report. The information I will share with you is based on data received in an FOIA request to Finance Director Nancy Bust for expenses and revenues related to the operation of the Ambulance Service in 2015. Operating three ambulances 24-7 requires 21 firemen. But the ambulance budget only includes salaries and benefits for the four newest hires. Salaries and benefits for the four firemen was 316,248 dollars. Salaries and benefits for 17 additional firemen would be 1,344,054 dollars. EMS calls accounted for 77 percent of the incidents that the department responded to. 77 percent of 1,344,054 dollars is 1,34,922 dollars. Total expenses were 1,640,442 dollars. This includes $8730 for leasing the ambulances and $118,541 for contracted billing services. Total billings were 2,964,162 dollars. Actual collections were 1,323,385 dollars or 45 percent of billings. Subtracting expenses from revenues results in a loss of 317,057. Also in 2015 the city paid forward 586,018 dollars for replacement ambulances but did not take possession of them until this year. The cost of the ambulances will continue to be part of the yearly ambulance budgets. So I have calculated a loss of 317,057 dollars in 2015. However, the loss would be much greater if administrative costs and the higher salary and benefit costs for the 17 additional firemen were included. The amount calculated for the firemen is based on the salary and benefits for each of the four newest hires, which was $79,062. But the average salary and benefits of the 17 additional firemen would be higher than that base figure. Also the figures do not include any administrative costs. It takes more than four men and an ambulance to operate the service. Deputy Chief Butler was hired late in 2007 to run the ambulance service and is identified in the 2013, 2014 and 2015 annual reports as Deputy Chief EMS slash Safety Emergency Management. But his salary and benefits are not included in the ambulance budget. I did not seek salary and benefit figures for the administrative personnel but if those costs and the higher salaries and benefits for the 17 firemen were added the actual cost of providing ambulance service would be much higher and the loss much greater. Fond du Lac, which operates three fire stations includes administrative costs. They include 50% of the salaries of their fire chief, three assistant fire chiefs, an administrative assistant, a records clerk and 75% of the salaries of their paramedics. At the time the city decided to take over the ambulance service a story in the Sheboygan Press on May 30th, 2007 noted and I quote, if the service loses money city fire officials will cut the department's budget to make up the loss end of quote. Of course it's easier to avoid that situation when you don't count all your expenses. In 2015 the department responded to 77 building fires with five stations that's 1.3 calls per station per month. In closing I commend Chief Romus for dealing with the reality of the need to reorganize the department. He chose not to replace three of the seven of 2015 retirees. Of course the fire union is protesting the chief's decision. Their usual mantra is minutes matter. Yet interestingly a large number of firemen do not live in the city but depend on volunteers to protect their families and property. Evidently minutes don't matter if you are a fireman living outside the city. Thank you. Thank you Delzi. Next on our list is Mike Brunette. Mike can I have your home address please? 1925 South 26th Street. And you will have five minutes. I didn't plan on mentioning this part but I'll move on a little on Judge Hoffman's heroin dealie. The other day I was looking at what looked like a repainting of North Avenue and I met a guy who I'll call the snowy because that's who our Chrome referred to him as. And he was telling me about that the first undercover police officer in Sheboygan County was actually hired to work on heroin cases. And when you talk about heroin and like you said there was a drug mill and would be a reason for it. In the United States we have this big uptake and if you look at Forbes you have the Sackler family which is now one of the richest families. They get to look down at the Rockefellers and other families like that because they're so rich. What do they sell? Oxycontin. That new drug Oxycontin. The one that the Fed said is non-addictive down so that's cool you can sell it now. It was developed in World War I by the Germans and it was shelved basically because it was addictive. But in my opinion and I'm no expert and according to the Chamber of Commerce in a tweet I'm one of the two stupidest people in Sheboygan County which is pretty impressive. But it's like I think that has a lot to play with it that so many people are getting those drugs. Different topic now. Sheboygan made the national news again. A middle class strongholds on certain future. The Atlantic. As incomes fall across the nation even better off areas like Sheboygan, Wisconsin are faltering. Read it. All right. And moving on. It came to my attention and not to expect anybody to ask me anything. But when you're giving up a lot of information and stuff you'd think sometimes somebody would ask a question. But I was told that the reason that no big calls on people who come up and speak is that they were instructed that you're not allowed to. And I'm going to ask the city attorney is that true? Unless you actually say at the end do you have any questions? Is that the case? Are people on the council allowed to call on whoever they want or is that restricted? No we're just listening to your presentation. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking when you're undertaking things later on you call on department people. You call on people to answer questions. But you never ever call on anybody and I'm asking the city attorney because that would be his deal. But I mean I know you're just listening to my presentation right now. I understand that. I mean I could be talking to the wall for all practical purposes. But moving on we'll mention the recent article in the press on City Hall. And it's mentioned the reason that we're working on it behind closed doors. Okay you're working on closed doors because you're negotiating. I obviously miss something in the minutes and stuff because I can't understand what would be being negotiated on. Because I have not seen anything that would be at that level of negotiations. I mean there's nothing there decided by the city council whether we're going to keep a new one or an old one where we're going or whatever. We're going to understand what negotiations could possibly be happening. And if that's the case those meetings should be open. I'd say they should be open anyways. And moving on to that same subject you have that signs all about give us your input give us your input. Then you have this dinky little questionnaire asking a few questions. And it's like whoop dee doo who cares. And it's like bottom line is you don't want anybody's input. That's why you do it all behind closed doors. Okay moving on and it's like tonight and not that I mean it's boilerplate stuff you approved bonding tonight at the meeting just before this. And I know it's all legal and whatever going through it but it's kind of odd that we had to wait five minutes here because you're literally voting on something that the council is about to vote on as if they were informed on this. And it's like and it's on there you know OK you know except and except then adopt and pass resolution. But it's like it literally just got voted on how would you would know that that was even going to be approved. And on OK another thing from the other finance meeting the other other day last week. And it's like a few little things on there like all the savings that we're having from not having the city assessor's office in house now where they're actually in this building. And I assume using the same equipment and whatever. And it's like in the savings just aren't there. You're five minutes are up. The extra minute thing is no longer. Anyone want to make a motion to give them an extra minute. All right. Thank you. Now I lost. Oh no I got to remember where it was. And I will before the minutes up. OK but the city assessor's office. It was called the attention. They're looking for extra money like somewhere around seventy two hundred dollars for a part time person because this person makes more than the last part time person. And the reason person makes more is they're doing it work. They're doing it work. They're doing Unix work and it's like really that sounds like something completely different. And the other thing being in it that you're also eighty thousand dollars different because the finance director still works here and we'll be here for three more months. So there's that salary and I'm wondering is the entire finance department still here or not finance but the assessment department. And that's all I got because it's all I got. Thank you Mike. OK that's it for this evening. Thank you very much. Next we'll move on to a mayor's announcements. Tonight we're very privileged to have a very special person join us. This person has. Forty eight years in public education and I'd like Tom DeSatelt please step forward. I'd like to deliver a proclamation to Tom from the office of the mayor in the city of Sheboygan. Whereas after forty eight years in public education the last thirty eight years coaching at Sheboygan North High School Tom DeSatelt has retired. And whereas DeSatelt came to Sheboygan North after teaching for ten years at Milwaukee Public School District and coaching the junior varsity at Milwaukee Madison for eight seasons. And whereas on September 27th of 2014 Coach DeSatelt was inducted to the Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association's Hall of Fame where the WBCA committee did not hesitate to vote him in unanimously. The executive director at that time said it was just unanimous because he has so much respect in the state and he's a great coach but even a better person. And whereas while coaching at North High DeSatelt has accumulated six hundred and forty six wins a state championship seventeen conference titles and twenty one WIA regional championships. And whereas he also led the Golden Raiders to the WIA state tournament seven times including the title winning year in nineteen eighty six and runner up finish in nineteen ninety three. He also posted a seventy twenty six record against Crosstown rival Sheboygan South in both regular season and postseason contests. Now therefore I Mike van der Steen is mayor of the city of Sheboygan do hereby proclaim August fifth of twenty sixteen is Tom DeSatelt day. And at this time I'd like to call up Alderman Bellinger for a few closing comments. Thank you mayor. It's not often we get a chance to get up here and speak about somebody that's had such a positive impact on our community. And I get to do that tonight and I can speak firsthand because I have two sons that participated in the basketball program. I've got one that graduated in 2009 and one in 2010. And my oldest son he was a little vertically challenged. He played freshman year and then decided that his future in basketball probably wasn't going to be as a player. And so he moved on to become a manager. And so he worked for the varsity team and coach DeSatelt directly for three years and was the manager. And my other son Charlie while he was not vertically challenged he did have some height in the family. He was challenged by his defense and coach worked with them and worked on his defense. He liked to shoot the three but he didn't really like to play defense too much. But coach brought that work ethic around and Charlie knew that if he was going to get any kind of minutes on the court he was going to have to play defense. And part of the reason that I've gotten to know Tom so well also is that from about the last 10 to 12 years I've been the treasure of the North boys basketball booster club. And in doing so having sons that participated in the program and working closely with Tom on the booster club finances and the spending. And in the different fundraising activities that went around I got to know coach DeSatelt very well. He came to North I believe in 1977. My wife graduated in 1979 so she was one of the first students that he had a privilege to teach and work with. So he's been part of the community and part of the fabric for years and years. And there's something about North basketball that if you play for them it's a fraternity and a brotherhood and a family. They all get along with each other all the players the former players. They all have each other's backs. There's been unfortunately if you have this many years of service you're going to have some tragedies. There's been some unfortunate deaths and things like that that have occurred. And they're there for each other and they're very proud of the accomplishments that they had both on and off the court. Playing for coach DeSatelt is not easy and sometimes it's not fun because he demands the best from each player. And that's the work ethic that's instilled. So it's quite a commitment for these kids to go through North High and play for coach DeSatelt because they know what's in store for them. It's a lot of hard work a lot of commitment and he demands the best. And one of the things that he does or that he instilled early on at Sheboygan was all the players when they represent the community. When they go to their games they're to wear blue blazers just like this and ties. And he wanted the kids that you know show that they respected the game they respected the community and they wanted to be you know have a high class organization and show that class. So that's something that still goes on to this day and it's kind of a unique tradition. And let's see. Also one of the things that you know people may not know about coach DeSatelt is that he has a mentor growing up in one of the best basketball coaches in the country. And that was John Wooden. Coach DeSatelt went out and worked some of his camps became a very close friend of his. And if you know anything about John Wooden not only probably one of the best coaches to ever live. He was a better person and he wanted his players to thrive and become outstanding people off the court. And he what he did was he came up with this this pyramid of success. And it's a pyramid of traits and characteristics that individuals have to have to be successful. And this happens to be one that the coach got signed for my son Matthew. But at the top of the of the pyramid are three things that I think that kind of embody what the coach is all about. One is creative competitive greatness. And that is to be at your best when your best is needed. And then faith and patience. Coach is a man of great faith and he's got great patience to be able to deal with these kids all these years. And one of the I'd like to just close by saying one of the comments from coach Wooden or quotes that he's attributed to is success is peace of mind. Which is a direct result of self satisfaction in knowing that you made the effort to become the best you are capable of becoming. And not only is coach the definition of success. You just look at all those players. You know his players are emulating that as well. And what I'd like to do is present a sign that I had made from the Department of Public Works. And it is kind of a unique sign and I didn't want to just you know give you the proclamation or something like that. I wanted to have something you know rather unique. Those that are part of the North basketball program know that the coach has his own logo that he created. And some of the some of the uniforms the different iterations of the uniforms have the logo on it. And so there's there's that in in working with Public Works Department. One of the sign makers down there is an ardent south fan. So he did this begrudgingly. I don't know he's happy for your success and your honor. I don't know if he's happy to see you go and not have to coach against south anymore or you know just happy for your accomplishments. But I'd like to present this to you coach. Now the one thing that John didn't mention is that the reason that we selected Friday is Tom DeSatell day is that there's going to be a north high booster golf outing. And John is going to represent these to the coach DeSatell at that particular meeting. So I want to again thank Tom and offer him a chance to say a few words. Well I want to thank Mayor Van der Steen. Mr. Ballinger brought along his wife Mrs. Ballinger. I thank those as well. After hearing the somber comments by Judge Hoffman we need to recognize there are a lot of people that are so supportive of our youth activities in the city of Sheboygan. We have a alderman who has been working years and years as a volunteer with our youth football unrecognized for his services. We have a alderman who is never going to miss a Friday night or a Saturday football game at either north or south. Scott's been around supporting youth athletics in our city to the other end of the perspective painted by Judge Hoffman and certainly a scary one. I truly appreciate the recognition by the Common Council. You have a long meeting tonight. I understand that and I'm so grateful to these people for their contributions as well to city government and also to youth activities in our city. Thank you again so much. Thank you very much for your proclamation for tonight. We need all of us to join us and National Night Out tomorrow August 2nd from 5 to 7 at Cleveland Park a new location. Because of the safety of our communities depends on both the Sheboygan Police Department and the residents of Sheboygan. National Night Out is an event where neighbors across the nation and Sheboygan come together with the police department for a singular purpose to make Sheboygan someplace better. Please come out to the party at Cleveland Park located at the corner of Geely Avenue and 25th Street. There'll be food trucks entertainment and a lot of information for you. Tonight I'm pleased to recognize Penny Weber from the Sheboygan County Crime Stoppers Organization who are the organizers of National Night Out. Penny would you please come up. The city of Sheboygan Proclamation whereas the National Association of Town Watch is sponsored a unique nationwide crime and drug prevention program on August 2nd 2016 entitled National Night Out. And whereas the 33rd annual National Night Out provides unique opportunity for Sheboygan to join forces with thousands of other communities across the country and promoting cooperative police community and crime prevention efforts and whereas Sheboygan Countywide Crime Stoppers played a vital role in assisting all law enforcement agencies in Sheboygan through joint crime drug and violence prevention efforts in Sheboygan County and is supporting National Night Out 2016 locally and whereas it's essential that all citizens of Sheboygan be aware of the importance of crime prevention programs and impact that their participation can have on reducing crime drugs and violence in Sheboygan. And whereas police community partnerships, neighborhood safety, awareness and cooperation are all important themes of National Night Out program. I know therefore Mike van der Steen and the Common Council do all call on all citizens of Sheboygan to join Sheboygan Countywide Crime Stoppers and the National Association of Town Watch in supporting the 33rd annual National Night Out on August 2nd of 2016. I'll present this to Penny Weber. National Night Out is something that everybody can do. Sometimes we wonder, can we do anything that'll make a difference? This can make a difference. This is something that across the country, it's not just cities, it's college campuses, it's military bases, come together on one night to say, we together can make a difference. And we are going to support that partnership between law enforcement and the community. Many years ago, Sir Robert Peel said, the people are the police and the police are the people and that's very true. Each side should be held accountable. So please join us. We have our Walk Against Crime starts at 6.30. We're going to walk through the neighborhood and we're visually saying we are taking back our neighborhoods and we will no longer tolerate crime where we live. So please join us. Thank you. Thank you very much, Penny. And one last note, the survey that we were asking all citizens to consider taking the online survey, which is available at the city website by clicking the banner ad, is going to be extended for one week. So we have one additional week to participate. Next we'll move on to the consent agenda. It'll include items 2.2 through 2.17. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. As an initial point, I just wanted to welcome Ms. Johnson back to the council chambers. We have Mr. Presence. I move to accept and file all reports of officers, accept and adopt all reports of committees and pass all resolutions and ordinances. Back in. Thank you for that motion and support. The consent agenda is before us. Is there any discussion on any of the items in consent? Okay. On 2.15, the action was to accept and adopt. That has to be referred back to PPNS. So that will be the predetermined action on that. Is there any objection to that from the motioners? 2.15. Okay. Thank you very much. Any discussion? Would the clerk please call the roll for passage? 16 ayes. Motion passes. Moving down to reports of officers. Item 3.1 through 3.7 will be referred to various committees under resolutions. 4.1 is a resolution by Alderperson Donahue approving the Third Amendment to the WB-13 vacant land offer to purchase between the John Michael Kohler Arts Center and the city of Sheboygan. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. As an initial matter, I've been advised that there is a need for a bit of additional time for the arts center to finish all of the various pieces of this vacant land offer to purchase. And it is of some urgency, which is why we are moving to suspend the rules, and I would make that motion. Second. Thank you for that motion. And second to suspend. Is there any objection to suspension? Seeing none, please proceed. Thank you, Mayor. I would move to put the resolution upon its passage. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. The motion is before us. Is there any discussion? Alderman Lussard. Yes, I'm wondering if you could just give us a heads up as to what's different now that we have a Third Amendment. What were the changes? Chad, would you like to come and answer that question? Alderman Lussard, do you have your microphone on? I do. It's right here. Okay, good. It's basically the transferring of some documents, but it's also the passing of an easement for the former South 36th Street property that the council voted to vacate at the last meeting. There's a property owner in the town on the north side of the tracks, and the arts center is still negotiating on an easement with their attorney to get that in place before we close. So we're hoping to close these finally documents, get this all wrapped up within the next 10 days and be able to close shortly thereafter. Thank you. Any other discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll. 16 ayes. Motion passes. Item 4.2 is the resolution by Alderperson Wolfe authorizing entering into a governmental agreement with the Housing Authority for IT hosting services for the Housing Authority applications. Alderman Wolfe. Make a motion to accept and adopt all ROs and accept and adopt all RCs. Second. First of all, we need suspension. I'm sorry. We need a motion to suspend. We need a motion to suspend first. I make a motion to suspend. Second. Thank you for that motion. And second, is there any objection to suspension? Alderman Bellinger. I'm not objecting again. I just like to know why we're suspending what the urgency is and for the public to be aware of that as well. If you could just clarify that. David Augustine, could you help us with that question? The reason why we need to do a suspension tonight is part of this project involves putting fiber in the ground between the Housing Authority and City Hall. And the window to make that happen is very small with the current equipments being on site. So that's why we want to suspend. The Housing Authority has already approved. So we just want to put this on suspension. Thank you. Thank you very much, David. Is there any objection to suspension? Seeing none, please proceed. Alderman Wolfe. Make a motion to pass the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any other discussion on the motion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll? 15 ayes, one no. I'm sorry, 15 ayes, one abstention. Motion passes. Items 4.3 through 4.6 will lie over. Items 4.7 through 4.11 will be referred to various committees. The reports of committees, 5.1 is an RC by law and licensing. To whom was referred, RO number 56 of 1617 by the city clerk submitting variance license applications. It recommends that the beverage operators license application 1018 be denied based on his failure to accurate review all relevant convictions on his applications, his record of violations to the licensed activity and his record as a repeat law offender and his failure to cooperate with the committee. Alderperson Lussard. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Second. Thank you for that motion and support under discussion. Yes, is Kevin Schultz here? Kevin was invited to our committee on two separate occasions and did not appear, and we have denied his license. Thank you. Is there any other discussion? The clerk please call the roll for passage. 16 ayes. Motion passes. 5.2 is an RC by finance to whom is referred, resolution number 57 of 1617 by Alderman Wolfe awarding the sale of 2,740,000 in general obligation refunding bond series 2016 C and recommends that the resolution be passed. Alderman Wolfe. Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to make a motion to accept and adopt. Second. And pass resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and we have a second. Second. Alderman Boren. Under discussion. Here. I would like to recommend that Carol comes up and explains. Okay. Carol, would you like to come to the front and explain this document for us and the refunding of these bonds? Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. I'm having some help there with handing out the actual resolution that you will be acting upon tonight. So I'm going to go through one paid summary. This is a financing for refinancing existing debt. There's no what we call new money in this. This is strictly for the purpose of refinancing two pieces of debt that the city has outstanding. One was issued for TID 6 and roughly 2.3 million. It's outstanding at over 4%. And the other is about 415,000. That's outstanding at about 2.27%. So what we've done is gone out to the bond market and we prepared to do that. And in that process, we also go through a Moody's bond rating. And then we take bids from underwriters this morning and bring the results to you in the form of the resolution that is attached to this handout. So the final results is, first of all, Moody's Investors Service has reaffirmed the city's AA2 bond rating. So the very, very high bond rating. We also then took bids this morning. We received eight bids from underwriters. So the city has phenomenal response in the marketplace. Sheboygan bonds are a hot commodity. So I will show you the bidders. It's part of the resolution. The winning bid was from the firm of Robert W. Baird. The true interest rate is 1.12%. That means that with this transaction, you are saving $252,776. And that's strictly for the purpose of, again, saving money. Council action on the resolution approves the borrowing terms. It awards the bonds to the winning bidder. And it locks in those interest rates. It also is giving permission to notify the bondholders of the two pieces of debt that are outstanding to let them know that on October 1, that will be the last time that they will receive an interest payment at those interest rates. So that's called authorizing the call. So that is what happens upon your action tonight if you approve the resolution. On August 25th, the city receives all the money and then we notify the, well, we'll notify the bondholders prior to that. But on October 1, then the bonds, the old bonds are completely paid off. So then you'll be paying on the new bonds that we're approving tonight. So the second page of this handout has the repayment schedule. So again, it's one repayment schedule and the purpose is to refinance two pieces of debt. So the top part is $2,720,000. When we started the process, we were starting with $2,740,000. Because of the way the bonds were bid and the way they sold them, it's what's called a premium, we were able to lower the amount of bonds issued to the $2,720,000. So that activity is covered in the pricing summary. And at the very, very bottom of that pricing summary, you'll see the words true interest cost and that's where you'll find that 1.12%. The page following that, little detail, but very important, what this is is the savings comparison. And as I mentioned, one piece of debt was originally sold for TIFF 6 projects. That's at the top of that page. So you will see the way the schedule reads from left to right. It has the calendar year and then it has, it says 2,300,026 bonds. So out of that $2,720,000, $2,03,000 belongs to the refinancing of TIFF 6. And then again, going to the right, you can see the TIFF 6 debt service if we did nothing. And then one more column to the right, you'll see the difference, which is savings. So the total of that column is the $242,000 number. The same exercise applies to the schedule right below. And that is for the TIFF 11 bonds. So again, $420,000 of this issue belongs to that refunding and that compares it to the 2010 bonds and the final savings. So that's the result of basically what we're voting on. And then the resolution is attached. Okay, you may have seen a draft of the resolution. Well, this particular resolution has what they call exhibits attached to it, which I'd like to take you to. The resolution itself ends on page number nine at the bottom. And that is followed by what is called exhibit A. And it says official notice of sale. That document is what is distributed into the marketplace to solicit bidders. And that's how we get the underwriters to bid. So you can see that's a four-page document. And that is followed then by exhibit B, which it says bid tabulation. Well, if you look at exhibit B, there is the list of all the underwriters that bid this morning. So you can see the first bidder was Robert W. Barrett, and there's a lot of names underneath. That's what they call their syndicate. And there are all the other firms that participated with them to submit the bid. And that's where the true interest rate and the costs, the net interest cost is all of the interest over the life of the issue. So that's the winning bidder at the 1.112%. And then when you look down, you'll see the next bidder was Cantor Fitzgerald, Bankers Bank, and so on. So there's eight bids. So you can see they range to the highest bid of a 1.36. That is then followed by exhibit C. Exhibit C is the bid form. That's how they place their bids. So that's just, again, the interest rates and the calculations associated with submitting the bid. That's the contract between the bidder and the city. And then exhibit D is the, they call it the debt service or the repayment schedule, which is something we've already looked at on the first page, but in a little different format. And then it says exhibit E, which is like a template for the bonds themselves. So that is the entire resolution, including exhibits. The very last page of this exhibit, I'm sorry, this resolution, it says exhibit G, which is the notice of call. So that's what we will use to notify bondholders that they will receive their last interest payment on October 1. Carol, thank you very much for that presentation. Is there any questions of Carol? Alderman Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. I wanted to point out, there was some question as to we're doing this sort of slinkily in the dead of night. The council did approve a resolution on June 20th for this refinancing, which is, and Carol has been here before. And it is always, not always, but at least in the times when we've gone forward very financially beneficial to the city. The reason that we met tonight is that the resolution by its terms requires the sale to be on August 1st. Then tonight we can approve the sale and then get our money. So this is the process that we go through. Carol is very good at taking this carefully through all of these documents and finance, which is why we're a tweed bit late. And I can assure you that we're in good hands with this particular broker and that this is financially something pretty smart to be doing. Thank you for those comments. Is there any other discussion? Carol, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Seeing no other discussion, I'd ask the clerk to call the roll on item 5.2 for the funding of the bonds. 15 ayes, 1 no. Motion passes. We're going to take just a short break here to sign the documents and we'll be right back. Good job, Chair. Good job. Okay, then we'll move on to item 5.3, which is an RC by finance to whom was referred resolution number 58 of 1617 by Alderman Bellinger and born creating a funding mechanism for future citywide re-evaluations and recommends that the resolution be placed on file. Alderman Wolfe. Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to accept and adopt to file. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll. 16 ayes. Motion passes. Item 5.4 is an RC by finance to whom is referred resolution number 59 of 1617 by Alderman Wolfe authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2016 budget to establish an appropriation for building inspection part-time salaries and benefits and recommends that the resolution be passed. Alderman Wolfe. Thank you, Mayor. I would like to make a motion to accept and adopt and pass the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll. 15 ayes. One no. Motion passes. Item 5.5 is an RC by law and licensing to whom was referred resolution number 60 of 16, resolution number 60 of 1617 by Alderman Lissard establishing an updated bond schedule and recommends that the resolution be passed. Alderman Lissard. Thank you. I wish to have, I moved that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Alderman Lissard. Yes, I'd like to make a motion to amend the bond schedule based on a request from the building inspection department to add 26-37 violation of the building code, sanitation one PMC 302.1 with a range of 150 to 750. The bond amount would be 150 with court cost it would be 250. Thank you for that amendment. Is there a second? Second. We have a second. The amendment is on the floor. Is there any discussion on the amendment? Seeing none. All those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Then we'd be looking at the motion as amended. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none. Will the clerk please call the roll for passage? Sixteen ayes. Motion passes. Item 5.6 is an RC by finance to whom was referred resolution number 63 of 1617 by Alderman Donahue authorizing the creation of a tourism commission for a tourism zone to oversee the disbursement and spending of the city's room tax collections and recommends that the resolution be passed. Alderman Wolfe. Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to make a motion to accept and adopt and pass the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Any discussion on this motion? Seeing none. Will the clerk please call the roll? Fifteen ayes. One no. Motion passes. Under ordinances. Item 6.1 and 6.2 will refer to various committees. Item number 7 is notice to discharge the committee the whole. 7.1 is a notice to discharge. We missed 5.7. We skipped 5.7. Oh, I'm sorry. 5.7 will be referred to the finance committee. Then we covered section 6. And again on 7 is a notice to discharge. Alderman Bellinger. Thank you, Mayor. I move to discharge from the committee the whole. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. We'll take a, is there any discussion on that motion? Then what clerk would you please call the roll for passage on the motion to discharge? Thank you. Fourteen ayes. Two noes. Motion passes. Item 7.2 is resolution number 11 of 1617 by Alderman Bellinger extending the special charge for residential garbage and refuse disposal services provided by the city. Alderman Bellinger. Thank you. I move to pass a resolution. Thank you for that motion. Is there any discussion on the motion? Alderman Lassard. Yes, I wonder if you could just do a little explanation about this for me. I would like to make an amendment to this resolution and that would clarify that. So I would move to amend the resolution to extend the charge for residential garbage and refuse disposal services provided by the city for three years and cut the rate from $5 to $250 per month. Thank you for that amendment. Is there any, is there a second? Next. Okay, we have a motion and a second for an amendment to the main motion. Is there any discussion on the amendment? Everyone understand the amendment? Alderman Hosea. Actually my question, I buzzed in before my question was answered. Thank you very much. Alderman Boren. I have a procedural question. Thank you, Mayor. I have a procedural question. If this amendment fails, then what happens? Is that the end of the garbage fee period or are we going to be open for more amendments or what's going on? Then we'd be voting on the main motion unless another amendment is made. So the main motion would be to pass the resolution. To extend it. To extend it. As is. As is. Okay. Okay, is there any other discussion on the amendment? Seeing none, the clerk is going to call roll on the amendment. Ten ayes, six nos on the amendment. Amendment passes. So now we're voting on the main motion as amended. And that means that it would be 250 per month for the next three years. Is there any other discussion on the motion as amended? That's on the floor. Alderman Bellinger. Make a motion to pass as amended. Is there a second? Thank you for that motion and second. Any other discussion on the motion? Alderman Boren. Thank you, Mayor. I'm not going to be supporting extending this garbage fee. And I've got some more disturbing information just from our information that we got from Carol tonight regarding Moody's investment service. The per capita income in Sheboygan in 2011 was $52,201. 2015 it was $49,338. So our citizens are in their per capita income are down almost $3,000 since 2011. And as I mentioned at the committee of the whole meeting, one other fact from Moody's, medium family income, percent of U.S. median for Sheboygan were at 82 percent, 82.8 percent of the median family income for the country. As I mentioned at the committee of the whole meeting, the median U.S. income six or seven years ago was $56,000. And now the median income in this country is down to $52,000. So in light of that, I just don't see where our constituents were getting hit by this half percent, additional half percent sales tax. We just had the wheel tax. I'm having a hard time renewing this fee. I think it's time for some bill tightening for the city. The fact is out there that 82 percent of our budget is salary and benefits. Every time we, and I understand and I mentioned this at the committee of the whole meeting, I understand that we have to pay our employees good money to maintain good employees. But every time we give a 2 percent increase in wages, that's another $500,000 in our budget. And it's very hard to operate a city when you only have 18 percent of your tax money going for needed things, and 82 percent of it is going for salary and benefits. So I think it's time for some bill tightening in city government, and I'm not going to support renewing this garbage fee. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. Any other discussion? Alderman Donahue. Well, as you know from the committee of the whole meeting, I am a supporter of the garbage fee, both in terms of the $5 level and certainly at the $2.50 level, which is $30 a year. Municipal governments have been under attack just as our citizens who are earning less money or they haven't been able to keep up because of actions by the legislature and its wisdom to limit the levy increases that we can do. I did a little research in our mill rate since 2005, has been basically identical. So for the past 12 years, we have done very, very substantial belt tightening. That has involved reorganization of the police department, reorganization of the fire department, reorganization of the department of public works, and also getting rid of 40 employees there. The library has dramatically changed its management. So to somehow suggest that the city government has been unresponsive to the economic needs of our community, I think it's just not true. And even if that were the case, even if there is a fairly high tax burden, $30 a year is not going to make that difference. And what it is going to do, just so we are real clear, it's taking $550,000 of income away from our city. Now, our projected, if we had kept the garbage fee at $5 per household per month, we would have basically, without adding any new firefighters, we would have basically been able to balance the budget. With the elimination of essentially $550,000, because that's, you know, it's the power of numbers, that $2.50 a month translates into $550,000 a year for us. With eliminating that, and again, without adding the firefighters, which is close to $300,000, we're looking at a $550,000 budget shortfall. Now, we have, and I think Alderman Bourne would agree, we have picked all the low-hanging fruit, we have picked the mid-fruit, and I'm not sure that we can afford a ladder to get up to the high fruit if there's any up there at all. So, we just need to know that when we take this action tonight, it has consequences for us. First of all, this garbage fee, if it is taken away, can never be added back without reducing our levy, direct dollar-for-dollar. $550,000 is gone and will not be recovered. So, that is an important thing that we're doing here today. Now, I understand that 82% of our budget is for services, and you know why that is? So, that's if my car gets broken into, I call a person at the police department who comes to help me. If my mom falls down the stairs, I call the fire department, and three Berlin firefighters are there to help me and help my mom and provide quality care. When my children were growing up, the library was a refuge. It's a place they hang out in the adult section in the history books for hours at a time. It was a very important part of our family. I'm a tree lover. I love our trees. I know that we're going through some tough times with the Emerald Ash Borer, but the money that we give to public works keeps our trees maybe not quite as wonderful as we would hope if we had even more money, but we have beautiful parks. Come and visit us because, you know, we say to relatives, we'll go to one of our parks. It's just beautiful here in Sheboygan because we have the resources to take care of things. Nobody likes to pay taxes. At the federal level and at the state level, we often just, it's like a whole. Like, where is the money going? How is it being used? I don't think of it as a city. I don't think of it as a tax. I think of it as a fee for services. I live here and I get all this good stuff because I pay this fee every month for my husband and I pay this fee every month. And I get to live in a beautiful city that's very safe, crime rate going down, where one of the reasons there are so few fires is because we've done such a good job of educating people about fire hazards and installing fire alarms and things like that. So we've done a really good job at making this a beautiful place. It's like buying a house and saying, you know, this year I'm just not going to do the windows. The roof can fall in. Who needs to be painted? You know, we bought this house and we're just not going to take care of it. We here at Alders are charged with taking care of this house, which is the city. And if the garbage fee goes away, $52.50 a month seems like nothing. But if you put all of that money together, it's real money and we need it. And I would suggest that if we... Frankly, the thing that I am hearing from constituents and for myself is road repairs. You know, I've talked about kicking the can down the road. Well, a problem, but now the can gets stuck in a pothole. So repairing our roads, I know that we all got a... I think most of us got a deal on our desk about road repairs. Dave Bebel has done a fabulous job of telling us just how important this work is. Now here's the deal. If we put it off because we're $550,000 short, does it get cheaper? No. $2 in 10 years becomes $6. And so we're not protecting our citizens from this $2.50. We're making sure that in 10 years, unless the city goes to hell because we haven't taken care of it, we're going to ensure that they have to pay more. We've put this off for a long time. We have a fiduciary responsibility to our constituents. It's just the way it is. And you know, obviously I feel strongly about this, but I think that we need to think really carefully and thoughtfully about this and not just say, hey, it feels good to get rid of taxes. When Mayor Perez got elected 2005 within 100 days, that council had gotten rid of the wheel tax and the stormwater fee management tax. Never to come back except for the wheel tax just recently. So it makes a difference. It takes a long time to recover from these things. We just can't cut off our nose despite our face on this one. Thank you for those comments. Alderman Bellinger. Thank you, Mayor. I am certainly not a fan of taxes or fees. Everybody knows the go-around I had with the county on this incredibly innovative sales tax that they put together and how beneficial that is to the city and how generous their contribution is to the city of $411,000. So I'm not any fan of that. I wasn't a fan of the wheel tax when it was originally implemented, or not the wheel tax, the garbage fee when it was originally implemented. I was not part of the council at that point in time. It's been gradually decreased. Alderman Born was successful in putting a sunset on it last time and reducing it from $7.16 down to $5. Now we're proposing to keep it at $2.50 and putting another sunset for three years to see where we're at financially as a city. Hopefully there's a lot of net new construction and new projects coming on board and the tax base is growing like crazy and we won't need it. But right now the number one complaint I receive from any constituent is the quality or lack thereof of our streets. And I know that David Bebel is doing a fantastic job with the resources he's giving and stretching the dollars and making it go as far as I can. The unfortunate truth about this whole thing is repairing roads and redoing roads completely is incredibly expensive. It's unbelievably expensive. So the $411,000 that the county so generously is giving us, if you do a million fill with that, that's 1.6 miles of roads. Well, we've got over 200 miles of streets in the city, so that's not going to go very far. So we need to have other sources of revenue to do this. So I would like to be altruistic and take Alderman Born's position and say, you know what, I'm against taxes, we need to do belt tightening. Well, quite frankly, if we reduce this to $250, it's going to cause us to tighten our belts anyway and yet it's still going to leave us some revenue for roads. So I think all in all this is a good compromise and that's why I'm supporting it. Thank you for those comments. Is there any other discussion? Alderman Lewandowski. I just want to say that Alderman Donahue spoke about us tightening our belts, but we are forcing the citizens of Sheboygan who we represent to tighten their belts even more and we keep on asking the people of Sheboygan to tighten their belts and a lot of them can't anymore. Our food pantries are running out of food because so many people are requesting it because they cannot afford some of this stuff anymore. And I would like to see this garbage feed dropped. I know we need the money for the roads, but the people also need their money for food. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. Alderman Thiel. Thank you, Your Honor. I'm obviously all about tightening belts. Little joke, sorry how to lighten up the subject. But I'm not about giving up services. I'm disappointed that we did vote to go down to 250. I was in favor of $5. I think we made this fee, this garbage fee about roads and I think we're forgetting about our services. This money generally just goes to our general fund and we get to allocate where it goes and I think we're really forgetting that. Alderman Lewandowski talks about food and stuff. Those same people are needing services. If somebody in your building goes down, our fire department ambulance services is right there for them and they're there quick. I think of our police services with the incident on a robbery. Those people were there before that gentleman even left the building. I mean that is unheard of I think in a city our size and I commend those for that. Like I said, I'm all about tightening belts, I'm not up to give up those type of services. I'm obviously going to support the 250. I would have supported the $5 because we needed for those services. For any of you who have to take advantage of those services, I think you would understand. If you haven't, you probably don't. That's why you're like, well it's only $2.50. But for that person who needs those services, it is very important. Think of that gentleman who was in that bar and ended up getting shot. We had an ambulance service there right away for that gentleman. I'm sure right now he has no issues with an extra $2.50 based on the service that he received and the care that he received from our services, from our ambulance service, our fire department and our police department. Without them, I don't think it would have been that successful. I'm definitely supporting 250. I would have supported $5. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. Alderman Heidemann. Thank you, Mayor. Again, I spoke at the Committee of the Whole. Again, this fee was one of those fees that was said that it would eventually go away and quite honestly, I'd love to see it go away. But I do see movement in that direction to where it went from five years to three years from $5 to $2.50. As much as I wouldn't want to support this, I am going to support it. Because then it is, it's a half a million dollars. But in three years, and if I'm still here, I'm not supporting it. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. Alderman Wolfe. Thank you, Mayor. The subject's been very difficult for everybody for against three years, zero years, $2.50, $7. I just want to make sure that everybody understands the hardest part for me, and I don't like paying fees, I don't like paying increased taxes, but we have a lot of work to do to try to fix things that as Alderman Donahue had said, we can't even kick the can down the street because it falls in a pothole. The concern that I have is we reduce it, it makes everybody happy for a very short period of time, and the city's going to end up having to turn around and borrow more money. So instead of having a fee that yes, we don't agree with, that yes, we can have a sunset, continue to try to fix things like we have been trying. We're going to end up turning around and taking out loans, taking out bonds, confusing people when we refinance. But which way is better stewardship for City of Sheboygan? Trying to have something that has a sunset that we can try to work through and pay off, or do we take out additional loans which are going to take us out years and years and years for even our kids to have to pay? Thank you. Thank you for those comments. I'd just like to ask the city attorney question. There's been a lot of discussion about eliminating or reducing this fee. If we take action to do that, can we anytime in the future go back and reverse that action because maybe we have a tough time in budgeting and we can't find enough money to put our budget together? And is the timing of that something where we could still do it in 2016? But if we go into 2017, then that clock would be gone. Right. I did research this issue at the request of our city administrator. And it is my opinion that if you make the motion and approve the motion to reduce it to 50, you've done that permanently. If you then next year decide you want to go back up to $5, you would not be able to do that without a corresponding cut in the tax levy. So once you go down, you can't go back up. City attorney, the other part of my question is if we have a tough budget session as we go on and to approve that budget and say in October and November we want to add some money back to that fee, is that still open for us to do at that time or is that door shut? You could, well, it depends. It depends on how far out you go. You could rescind the action of the committee or of the council but you have to follow the procedure. You'd have to have someone who made that motion to move to bring it back and preferably under Robert's rules that's done at the following meter. So there really isn't any door other than a short timeframe of two weeks. Thank you very much. Further discussion? Alderman Lassard. My question was, I'm particularly in favor of keeping the garbage feed the way it was. Is there any way to, I think that you just said we have to wait two weeks to rescind what they're doing tonight? Or is there something we can do this evening to vote on it again? Is there anything that we can do at this point, not to have the $2.50 but to have the $5? Someone would have to make a motion to reconsider the prior amendment. I would like to make that motion. Second. Wouldn't you just have to vote against this amendment? Yes. And then it would have to be somebody who voted against this, who voted in favor of the amendment could make a motion to basically reconsider that motion. Okay. Okay, we have a motion on the floor. Wait a second. We've already got a motion. We have an amendment on the floor. City Clerk, could you please tell me how the person was voted on the previous question on the amendment? I voted nay. Just a point of clarification. Before we get in the weeds on this, I guess my question is this. And I was going to ask the city attorney. So when we vote now on the motion before the body, which is to reduce the garbage fee from five to 250. So that is what we are voting on. If we vote no and a majority votes no, votes against this $2.50 motion, then the $5 stays in place. Is that true? No. But if you vote no, someone, you could bring a new motion for a different amount at some later date. The issue is if you approve it at $2.50, now how do you get rid of the $2.50 and bring it back up to $5? So what if the $2.50 loses? The $2.50 loses, you can... That's my question. Then it's the status quo, isn't it? Right. Because the motion... It goes to the status quo, but doesn't it... I believe the current fee does sunset. So you could defeat it, but if you don't do anything further, then the sunset clause would go into effect. So you would still need to do something to bring the fee back. Okay. And the sunset is when? The end of the year. End of the year. So currently we have a motion that was amended from $5 to $2.50. That's on the floor, and that is what we're discussing right now. City Attorney, can you rule as to whether or not this second amendment is legal? All the person with SART can't make that motion. Okay, so that motion fails for proper notification. Now we'll go on with the lights as they're blinking. Alderman Jose. You know, I wasn't born yesterday, and it's obvious that you're trying to scare this council into reversing the vote they just made, saying that we can't raise money some other way. In the future, I don't believe that. We just a couple of months ago passed this wheel tax that everybody's unhappy about. The county just passed a half a percent sales tax. So you're going to tell me that we can't pass another fee somewhere else if the money is really needed or have a referendum or whatever. I don't believe it, City Attorney. I think you're trying to scare this council into raising the vote by saying that if we lower it by $2.50, we can never go back. There's always a way to get additional money. Thank you, Alderman Jose. Moving on, Alderman Donahue. That was my point of communication. Okay, thank you. Alderman Boren. Thank you, Mayor. One of the remarks you made a few minutes ago is that if we get into a tough budget period, we're going to need more money. When this thing was initiated back a few years ago, we were told by Jim Amorio and Don Hammond and others that the garbage fee was going to be temporary and we were going to wean our way out of this over the years and we wouldn't need the garbage fee anymore. Thank God I got a sunset on it. But what you just said a few minutes ago, when times get tough, let's find more ways to get money out of the citizens. We've got a newest city administrator, highly talented person. We've got talented people in the finance department. I think we've got a very talented finance committee. I don't know about the other Alderman, but if I get some scenarios where we have to cut $500,000 out of the budget, I'm going to find the most efficient way of doing that without taking out frontline people that are facing the public every day. It's time that we cut spending. We're going to be weaning off this thing for the last four years because nothing happens. It goes up by $500,000 every year and this year, according to Darrell the last meeting, we haven't even been able to use the garbage fee this year for its intended purpose of working on the roads because we've had to fill up another $500,000 hole and by coincidence that $500,000 is the amount that we gave and raises for our employees for 2016. So it's a never-ending cycle. We're supposed this thing was supposed to end and that's what we were promised and it keeps going and going and going and that's why I'm not supporting it. Besides, people are sitting at their dinner table in Sheboygan with $3,000 less in take-home income over the last four years and we're asking them for more money, not only the city by the county, it's ridiculous. I can afford it, but there's a lot of my constituents that are sitting at their kitchen table every night wondering how they're going to pay the electric bill, the gas bill and now we want to continue this on top of that sales tax. It's ridiculous. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Is there any other discussion? Alderman Heidemann. Thank you, Mayor. So if we don't support the amendment at $250,000 and that is voted down, that means somebody is going to make the recommendation that it goes back to $5,000. All right? And again, this is what I've been picking up. Is that correct, attorney? We can't do that tonight. It would have to be introduced at a different time. Well, it's going to happen. It's correct. I kind of see what's going on here. So, like Alderman Bourne, I like not to support the fee, but I'd rather support the $250,000 than rather have some, and then have somebody, I guess, possibly come back with a five in a couple of weeks and then I'm going to vote against that. So if I voted against the five in two weeks, does that mean we get rid of the fee altogether? Because that's what's going to happen. If you continue to vote down any change, yes, it would sunset. Thank you. I see. No more lights. Alderman Ballinger. Thank you. Attorney Adams, could you just clarify for me, because I'm still a little confused. If we vote down this amended resolution, why doesn't the existing resolution $25 automatically, why isn't that in play and that extension still valid and why couldn't, I just don't know why. You've already voted on the amendment, so now you're voting on it as amended. If you vote that down, then nothing gets approved. With nothing being approved, the sunset will go into effect. So there's no lot, there's no, so it would take a completely new resolution. It would take a new resolution. Okay, thank you. Would the clerk please call the roll for passage? Okay, this is what you're voting on. You're voting on the motion to pass the resolution as amended. Okay, anybody got it? And that is three years and 250. Correct. I'm sorry. How do I go back and change it if you're on the phone? I'm sorry, what? Oh, never mind. Is everybody in? Are you okay? Eight eyes, eight nose. Motion passes. Eight, sorry. Eight, eight. You have to break the tie. Did you just vote? I have to break a tie. Did you just vote? No. If it's tied, it fails, right? I'll vote nay. Okay, he can vote the break the tie. Motion fails. Things just got interesting. Yes, I am. Okay, next we'll go to other matters, city attorney. 8.1 is an RO from the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31, 2016, June 30, 2017 and June 30, 2018. That'll be referred to the law and licensing committee. 8.2 is an RO by the city clerk submitting a communication from American Family Insurance. On behalf of their insured, David S. and Deborah D. Aschenbach regarding a notice of claim. That'll be referred to the finance committee. Alderman Jose? Just to be clear, because the resolution failed, without further action, the garbage tax will sunset at the end of the year. Is that correct? Correct, yes. Okay, next is a contemplated closed session. Alderperson Donahue? Thank you. We begin in closed session pursuant to section 1985, sub 1, sub E with stats for competitive or bargaining reasons. Require a closed session for the purpose of deliberation related to a development opportunity on a parcel adjacent to South Taylor Drive and Industrial Park number one. Second. With the motions before us, would the clerk please call the roll for a closed session? Hold on a second, I have to take Mark off the list. Okay, we're open for your votes. Do I close the thing, aye? You're an aye. Your aye. I'm the voting aye. Pardon me? My battery died. We've been here for a while. Both in aye. 15 ayes, one not present. Motion passes. We'll take a three minute recess and reconvene adjourn and close session.