 Folks I don't think there's much here to this coffee thing by the way No, it doesn't look like it. It's just more acknowledging. There's more conversations going out. Yeah I mean, I think it's what the kind of political angle that will I'm sure we'll touch on. Yeah, and of course We are referring to metamorphosis the novel. Oh, yeah, it is very copcast. I'm sure he is thrilled Every time he hears it. Yeah Ladies and gentlemen If you're not subscribed to the full audio pre-show version, you just missed an excellent question from Rick Foster. You just missed out About Amazon Boo to you Booth is man. Hmm. All right So as we got some pretty wordy top stories today, but I feel like we can move through them fairly expedient Lee indeed Can I can I really quick before we get into the tech news just read something that delighted me today in the world of politics? So Axios comm which was founded by one of the political founders and I think is exceptional lately She's great who does you know freed she left recoding with Axios They're fantastic. There is a great Post today by Mike Allen about how Sean Spicer's notebooks could be a Muller target Defiator so he goes on to say when we texted Spicer for comment on his note taking practices He replied Mike, please stop texting and emailing me unsolicited anymore when I responded with a question mark I've known Spicer and his wife for more than a dozen years. He answered not sure what that means from a legal standpoint I want to be clear. Do not email me or text me. Should you do again? I will report to the appropriate authorities. Oh, man and He says at the end He like just works this in with other little notes on it after an hour of Spicer's text He replied to a polite email. I sent earlier seeking comment per my text Please refrain from sending me Unlisted in texts and emails should you not do I will contact appropriate legal authorities to address your harassment? Wow I mean, it's it's funny in my mind a text message can very easily become harassment, right? That's that you can hit people more often whereas an email It's like why don't have to pay attention to an email It's so that that is that is Mike Allen being very petty Yeah, I'm sure that like because that kind of stuff happens all the time, right? He is making sure that he embarrassed and shot Spicer by making it with writing these comments four times Hilarious I was I was delighted by that. All right, ladies and gentlemen, are you ready for some tech news? Oh All your tech news is here on Thursday afternoon exactly done by Florida, Georgia line and Yeah, Jason Derulo next right here we go You know what daily tech news show is powered by not ads you find out more at daily tech news show comm slash support This is the daily tech news for Thursday September 21st 2017 I'm Tom Merritt and he is Justin Robert young Yes. Yes. Yes. I am. Hi everybody a great great to be back on one of my Few remaining Sarah Lane list goes True. We are we are but nine days away. It's the last day of summer But we have nine days yet until we hit October and then there's a weekend in there and then October 2nd the new regime Kicks in we got DTS labs emails flying. We got plans. We're gonna be at LA pod fest I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be in London on October 9th. So kinds of things are happening man Yeah, we will be at LA pod fest and and by we I mean me and the mouse in my pocket And Roger You're gonna be there in the mouse If you don't want me there, it's quite easy for me to believe me Roger I Roger's like I am not a mouse and I am certainly not in your pocket Let's start with a few tech things you should know Equifax posted several times on Twitter directing people to a site Mimicking their actual site for checking whether your information had been breached. It was Equifax security 2017 comm They were sending it backwards with security first The sweat is they swipe two words the site that they were sending people to is being described as a fishing site It was not a fishing site, although it very easily could have been it was set up by Nick's Sweeting to illustrate the risks of not making the domain name for things like this part of the Equifax main site so that nobody can typo squat or Inversion squat like he did he did not collect any information on you. There was no actual risk. It was just embarrassing to Equifax I said this last week I almost didn't put in my information because it looked like a fishing site while my wife was telling me over and over and Over again about how I needed to do this to make sure that I was part of the breach and that was the real one Yeah, but which by the way, I still have no confidence that I was part of the breach because of problems with that but Oh boy Equifax come on man at some point They're going to stop tripping over their own pants and landing in a plate of pie cream and then have March over them The weather of naked gun style but today is not that day. It's not funny anymore Speaking of not funny is that's not funny has a trusted source who tells them that Roku will introduce a 4k HDR streaming stick Later this year. Ah getting into the Chromecast ultra game I see no no idea in price or anything, right? Just just the leak and Facebook said Thursday We'll share with the US Congress information relating to 3,000 ads It claims were run by organizations in Russia around the time of the US presidential election Facebook previously shared the information with special counsel Robert Muller But it is now sharing it more widely which it says it doesn't do lightly Yeah, this is always a very very interesting topic because Congress Bless their hearts often times like to talk about things that are popular So they might get in front of television cameras You know just go go ahead and look at their very important work on steroids and baseball if you I've seen Veep Yeah, this works though. I don't I don't know exactly what this means. Here's some more top stories Google has paid 1.1 billion dollars to HTC, but for what? Actually, I give the tech press credit almost every story. I've read about this has been accurate and very clear But it's still confusing to a lot of people Google is buying 2000 hardware designers or the the the division that employs 2000 hardware designers from HTC's white label hardware design division Google also gets some non-exclusive licenses to some HTC intellectual properties So they're not buying the intellectual property. They're not buying patents like they did with Motorola They're just getting a license to say hey if we have your designers now working for us They'll need to take advantage of some of this stuff The employees who are in Taiwan are currently part of the powered by HTC division that works on Stuff for other companies the non HTC products like for instance the Google Pixel So they'll remain there, but they'll become Google employees and HTC will continue to make its own hardware In fact HTC even indicated it will make a successor to the U11 So HTC not selling its handset division. This is not Nokia. This is not Motorola Yeah, they are simply taking kind of the you know There's the there's the part of the the the the Pork and beans plant that makes the brand name pork and beans and there's the part that makes your grocery store brand They're selling off the part that makes the grocery store brand given it to Google Which shows you exactly how desperate HTC is right because Yeah, theoretically they would like to say no no no no no you don't get the one thing that you really like You need to take everything we are selling this company and you have to figure out exactly how you Use what what you buy This is not the case again. They seem to have learned their lesson from Nokia and Motorola and they are saying How about this well overpay For exactly what we want You get cash and a new lease on life or whatever it counts for And we get exactly what we want the people that are already working on our phones. Yeah So and and Google was the biggest client of this division anyway So what they're saying essentially is we want to we want to focus on Vive Uh, we'll probably still make we'll probably still be involved in the google pixel somehow, right? Yeah, uh, we'll the because HTC is keeping its manufacturing Google's just going to design this thing in house from start to bottom They already were designing the pixel in house in in a lot more ways than they had been But now this will be entirely their design, which means they wouldn't have to use HTC They could go to fox con or anybody else to build this thing. They don't need HTC's involvement now But my guess is there's a little bit of an understanding here that that they'll somehow Send some business back HTC's way So this is perfect for google google beefs up the team that rick australo is running that has been designing the pixel With 2,000 experienced employees. They can also start designing other things. Don't forget Besides just handsets. They can also maybe design some tablets and some laptops and maybe even some vr stuff, right? The experience of 2,000 employees runs wide. Meanwhile, HTC doesn't lose the ability to make anything itself Bose announced a new version of its noise cancelling headphones the qc 35 to Rolls off the tongue, doesn't it now a dedicated button for google assistant The headphones use bluetooth to connect to a google assistant app on android or ios The headphones can read messages play music news and make phone calls The q3 35 to is available now in the us australia canada germany france in the uk for 349 dollars and 95 cents tom A word association noise cancelling headphones. What comes to mind first airplane Uh, what is spotty to completely non-existent on an airplane wi-fi Also Food service, but wi-fi most store. Yeah, uh among the many things like uh mic room and uh, quiet and uh An absence of anxiety for some flyers, uh, but yeah, no wi-fi. I guess that's the biggest thing That like I can understand A headphone and maybe this is what what is special about this a headphone that is more designed to work with assistance Be they you know, this is google assistant, but i'm sure we'll see some with all the other versions, right? But at the same time The the noise cancelling element of it if that's the other big selling point They seem like two different things not necessarily Flavors that pair well together at least at first blush for me The big news here is google assistant got a big name on board, right? We've been getting barraged with amazon voice services is on this refrigerator and and that tablet and And everywhere and google assistant finally is like hey, we're on bows big name But yeah, when you dig when you dig past that part of the announcement It is a little interesting to think of noise cancelling headphones I i'm sure people listen to them in at home because they just provide great sound and maybe You know they live in an urban environment that has a lot of noise outside And I just want some peace and quiet feedback at daily tech news show dot com if you Listen to any noise cancelling headphones. I don't care if it's bows or otherwise Outside of an airplane and tell us why we're very curious to hear what those situations are Yeah, I can't I can't I can't think of it personally, but uh go ahead and let us Well, I'm imagining the old max cell was at the max cell ads where the guy's sitting in the chair And the sound is rushing past them. Yeah when you're like I don't need that much wind in my face I'll just wear the noise cancelling. I'll wear the noise I could see it if you're like on a ship like on a navy ship where you have to share racks and with a bunch of other people You want it, but the the google assistant wouldn't be very useful Yeah, yeah, it does it that doesn't provide more google That's the thing is like it's not like noise cancelling it for new technology. This thing has been around forever Mm-hmm Cisco's talos security announced wednesday that its analysis of the c cleaner software infection shows that the attackers intended to Use the resulting botnet to target 18 tech firms including intel google microsoft akamai samsung sony vm where htc linksis D link ansesco itself the attackers successfully implanted another piece of malware on machines in eight of those companies At least eight that's talos knows of talos recommends companies fully restore any Machine that had the infected version of c cleaner installed on it In fact, they say restore it to a backup prior to the installation of the effect infected version of c cleaner And of course anybody who installed c cleaner During that period should make sure they have the most recent version of c cleaner to get rid of this thing But before it was just like get rid of c cleaners infected version You should be fine now it looks like well in some cases if you're part of a target company It looks like they were trying to put some other malware in And this has gone from being man spammers run botnets What are you going to do to an advanced persistent threat looking approach? Which is usually a nation state? Uh, certainly a sophisticated attacker Yeah, so we're talking cyber espionage Look at that murderers row of uh people, uh affected, right? That is that is uh pretty much every billboard you could possibly see coming into san francisco Yes, except for the small startups. They're not they're not big enough to be on you No, no, and those are all gone to weed dispensaries now uh making it real local The 20s uh in 20s the Not thc Stop it. Oh will you stop in 2016 the u.s. Securities and exchange commission discovered attackers exploited a vulnerability in a test filing feature to gain access to non-public information The sec quickly patched the vulnerability and does not believe personal information was accessed few However, it has now come to light that the attackers may have used what information on companies They did access to make illegal trades A july gao report found that the sec does not always fully encrypt sensitive information Uses unsupported software has failed to fully implement An intrusion detection system and made missteps in how it configured its firewalls Tom we talked about this one earlier and you described you read that first half and you're like Hey, you want to know what good on the sec and then you get the final report card and you're like Sorry, buddy. We got a real problem here. Yeah. No, they come off looking fairly decent in the first in the 2016 vulnerability where they were on it quick And the only thing that happened that made them bring it to light Was the fact that uh, turns out they may have used some of the information they did get Which wasn't particularly sensitive But it allows them to make some insider trades Uh, so we need to make sure that people understand that but that july gao report, which I missed came out in july I I didn't see anything about it. Uh is just damning Saying like no, they are not doing a good job over there So it's less about this this this attack and more about the fact that it looks like another attack Could be quite likely if this gao report is correct You know, uh, they need to get their ducks in a row because this is the kind of stuff that when you talk about, uh, real disruption The sec is one of those organizations that should be a watchdog over it now when you're talking about the sec I suppose you say they need to get their docks in a row Yeah, and they also, you know, uh, we are talking about the sec here. So roll tide Yeah, bgr has an interesting overview of what security researchers have been saying about apple's face id Uh, so a lot of people have a lot of opinions about it And there's some questions about the usability and whether it's training people or over promising and those are all fair But what are the people who actually live and breathe security say well, they talk to a couple of them Troy hunt, uh, who I I have some respect for he he does great work told bgr He thinks it's about the same as touch id and he would be surprised if any easily Exploidable risks were found he's not saying there won't be risks They're a risk with touch id but touch id's risks are not easily exploitable mark rogers who's head of infosec a cloud flare Says that well the positives with face id are that it learns your face with machine learning Uh, so it'll have fewer, uh, false positives and false negatives Uh, it stores all the data on the device not in the cloud, which that means apple doesn't get their hands on it Users eye detection to prevent being fooled by a model or picture And has the five button press fail safe to turn it off if you're afraid of somebody grabbing it and trying to force you to unlock it Okay, those are the positives for negatives though rogers says it might be awkward to use and that's a negative Not just because it's awkward to use because if it's awkward to use people might not use it And if face id is your only option other than a passcode some people may just not do either Uh, that he said touch id was so easy to use that a lot of people who never use pass codes Finally set one up because they wanted to use touch id So he's worried about that also Apple didn't do it to improve security. They did it because they couldn't fit touch id on a bezelless screen It's like that's that's a bad motivation. So this isn't an advance. This is at best equivalent And the five button press is untested in court Uh, it could you could you could be sued for using the five button press? He's like, we don't know that that needs to be tested and it's untested for high security activities like banking and password managers He's like, we need we need to get this things in our hands and run it through the the rigor moral before I could say It's safe to use rogers recommends using a complex password until those tests are carried out All that being said that is still the most responsible way you can phrase about as good of a initial report As you can from these kinds of security researchers because everything that they have said as a liability is a Possible liability that they will not know until they get their hands on it now Uh, obviously once people get their hands on it, we're going to find out exactly how much the rubber meets the road on this but Touch id was not universally super easy on uh in its first implementation and failed very very very very often to the The point where if I were less patient, uh, and I am not an intensely patient person Then I might have turned it off Uh, it now Ironically not ironically but but uh, you know because you would expect it to On my iphone 7 plus works almost flawlessly. It is it is fantastic specifically with the new iOS I would be the one thing I would push back on that is Yes, and it is there because they couldn't fit a touch id on a bezel of screen And I guess they made the decision that they didn't want to put it on the back Like some of the other phones have done with with fingerprint id and I love it on the back I use it on the 5x and the essential and and it's great in in especially the essential You know it has some other problems with it, but that fingerprint sensor is pretty spot-on. It works works very well I will say I think that part of the motivation might not have just been we don't want to do that But also to show off and flex the muscle Of the chipset that they have inside this phone and how much on phone machine learning that they can do It's why they're pushing AR it's why they're looking at, uh, uh, you know why why they can power the kind Of technology they need to make face id A reality so I I do think that it is it is also because not because they didn't want to do something else but because They could do something with this new Like incredibly beefy and muscular chipset Hey folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Subscribe to daily tech headlines at daily tech headlines.com available as a podcast I want to repeat our apologies from yesterday The amazon echo flash briefing of this has some technical problems right now And we are working with amazon to figure them out No, I don't have any clue when they'll be figured out because we're waiting for amazon to tell us what's actually wrong Because from our side it looks like everything's okay, but obviously it's not so Hopefully that will be restored as soon as possible Dan and alex are working like crazy to get that fixed so big props to them for working through this But apologies for that. Hopefully that'll be back soon in the meantime and get it as podcast or on the anchor app at anchor dot fm All right last week on september 12th buzz feed editor in chief ben smith wrote an article titled There's blood in the water in silicon valley And in fact just before we did the show There was a recode podcast with peter kafka talking to the new york times jim ruttenberg about it Essentially the same thing saying that the government is on on all sides of the issue from right to left to center Is starting to turn against the big tech companies? And say you you guys need to do what we say Because it's popular because people are starting to feel negative emotions toward these big companies On september 19th the guardians. Well the guardian wrote published an excerpt From a book by franklin four Called facebook's war on free will and it is a a long and very interesting Investigation into what facebook is really doing how it it Proposes that it's bringing us all together and helping a more transparent world But that it's actually allowing us to surrender ourselves to the algorithm And subtly making us do what facebook wants I think that is just an example of what we're we were talking about in the first which is people are no longer looking At little google and it's two engineers from stanford working in the garage They're no longer looking at this genius boy from harvard who created this social network. They're looking at standard oil They're looking at big trusts and saying these companies are too large and have too much power When I floated this topic to folks in our analyst slack a lot of them said yeah It's tech companies not tech people still love their tech and there's lots of interesting tech out there So so justin I have A thought about what I think is one of the danger signs right now Yeah, because because we've gone through this before right microsoft was scrappy and so was uh All the little companies of the 80s like de c and then eventually it shook out microsoft became big But when microsoft became big we eventually got our google's and our amazon's and our facebook's and now that they've got big Where do we go from there Two things are at play here number one You have uh ubiquity The fact that these are companies that are no longer the things that your nerd friend tells your jock friend Right everybody knows what google is everybody knows what facebook is everybody knows what apple is These are not companies that are niche apple is the you know trading depending on what the the market has done that day can very often Times be the number one most profitable company in The world out pacing Oil which I don't know if people have noticed is a fairly popular product Yeah fairly profitable too a profitable as well What we have now All right, so there's two things number one you have public perception of tech companies Shifting to not necessarily being oh, wow what wizardry has come from the west But rather Why did this not work? Why did this tech make my life Worse am I being am I dumbing being dumbed down? By these technologies because they are trying to do things for me or at its most insidious Are you trying to run me out of a job? Are you trying to make sure that I never work again? Uh because it's going to be five percent more efficient on some larger global scale And this I don't want to get into it But this also goes into a lot of kind of baseline fears that we have seen manifest Uh politically both here and abroad beyond that politicians will do What gets them re-elected if there is baseline fear or baseline anxiety about not Tech necessarily but the decisions of tech companies And the power of tech companies They will pounce on it. I expected it to happen in the 2016 election When uh, you know Jeb Bush and hillary clinton were taking kind of a veiled positions on either side of the uber worker Uh a designation whether or not they should be employees And then as we all found out the election wound up becoming about many many other things Uh, but I think that time is up Uh, you know for silicon valley the time is up Your time is now in terms of being in the hot seat with with uh the the political world Yeah, and I I kind of go back and forth in my head about why didn't this happen before? Why didn't this happen with microsoft and hp and I've got a couple of answers Stoic squirrel in our chat room actually gave two really good emblematic examples one is juicero Juicero sold you a product you didn't need for a lot of money under the veil of being a startup And if you didn't hear about juicero, we didn't cover it on daily tech news show because it wasn't tech It was here's a device that will uh cause juice to come out of these packets that we will sell you for a lot of money Didn't make any sense at all Uh, but it tried to be like oh, we're innovative like it played the hype to the end So I think there's a little bit of I've been burned by being over promised now juicero Is at one extreme end of that but but even buying a phone sometimes it promises like oh this will change your life It'll do everything for you and then the first time your voice's system is like I don't know here's a web search or a locks up Or an app crashes people go well wait a minute. This isn't what I was promised This isn't the hopeful new world and the other example he gave was bodega Which we actually talked about earlier on your twit stream. Yeah, it's a company that You know I was providing a service a vending machine. It was hooking up an app to it fairly uncontroversial but Type tapped into what you were talking about about anxieties about job replacement and automation and just kind of Didn't really provide any innovation, right? I mean They were just using the tools that are laying around to make something interesting and that can be very valuable I'm not going to diss them on that But they called it bodega which made new york people think that that was a store And it blinded all that anxiety, right if it were called The glass box and it did exactly what it would do it would grow at whatever trajectory Would it would grow at and then it would figure out that stocking all these boxes is probably really annoying and maybe their Tracking service is not exactly what they thought it was going to be and they would either succeed or fail by doing the fairly Uh low margin work of trying to bring essentials to various boxes that are in your Apartment or place of work or co-working space, right? It is an uncontroversial company and yet it called itself Bodega and what we found very very quickly is that all it took was a fast company headline to say tech bros Want to run your bodega out of business? uh, which you know I don't know. I mean, I I don't know enough about their company on how much bravado they wanted to use about disrupting and hashtag of you know, but sure sure or whatever but The narrative is there. Yeah, it only took the slight pinprick of a Uh, a Serbically worded fast company article to set twitter and social media ablaze if you knew somebody from new york who We get it. They have egging. They have egg sandwiches at bodegas. I'm not you know, I I understand yeah, it'd be like amazon coming out with mom and pop It wasn't yeah, it wasn't it wasn't if amazon was like look We are deciding to target bodegas in new york city and we are buying aggressively real estate next to them and we are going to use amazon's A price advantage to make sure that we run them out of business so we can turn their shop into an amazon echo A display room that would be something to say. Oh my god. They are going to run these people out of their jobs However, I can understand the anxiety that sure. This is how it starts It starts with just two guys With their dumb glass boxes that probably aren't even in new york all that much and a lot of it has to do with naming Right these days. These this is a culture where you say the wrong word and people erupt and they said the wrong word For sure and the weird thing is is you know, they called it a bodega and most of their stuff their places are in California where nobody knows what about daggers. I know Maybe they thought they could sneak out of the radar that way too many bicoastal people too many new yorkers Transplanted to the west coast unfortunately exactly and and now, you know, and then all of a sudden you have Of the viral videos from uh, me too and and deezus and marrow, uh, you know Hey, so they these are just recent examples, right? Uh, these are things that'll flame out. We'll forget about this in years But this has been going on for a little while there, you know, you you mentioned uber uber has been a target Uh, and it's not Airbnb got got to put their face in the bus on this so Here's one of the things i've noticed and i'm not sure how this ties in Instead of computer power growing while prices fall which while microsoft had become the big evil monopoly in the 90s You still had computer power growing while prices fell We now are starting to see computer power growth slowing It's taking a little intel's off the tiktok cycle, right? And it's you know, ram's still pretty cheap But there are some some parts that just aren't declining in price. So prices for things like phones are rising That's a different dynamic And it's one thing to say like well, I don't like microsoft, but wow I could still get I get a much better laptop for the less than I paid for my last one I mean can't complain too much about that I want to push back on the phone thing though the the flagship phones Prices are rising, but it is cheaper to get a phone that has better functionality now than it was Five years ago But my point remains that in the past your high-end laptop price went down The hot the top-end laptop from hp was generally cheaper than the top-end laptop from hp had been the last cycle Uh and and tech progress in the parts has been slowing So we are seeing the top end I I think the top end is just the leading indicator if if this continues We'll see we'll start to see a pile up, right? Where where the mid-range phones will start to Not be as cheap as they were the last time. It's not the overall price. It's the fact that oh wait I have to pay more To stay at the same level or you know to get the next best thing at the next level I'm used to paying less And I think that plays into all of this I I agree Kind of here's where I disagree. I don't think that most people understand this and this might be a root cause but ultimately The fact that youtube and facebook can internally change their algorithms and change the fortunes of politicians businesses entertainers music culture That weirds people out It's all yeah, it's all there and it's it's there too big is what it boils down to right? They have too much power. They have too much influence and we don't know Specifically when you've got mark suckerberg out here shaking hands and kissing babies whether or not he is going to run for president in the next cycle There is this this fear that we are losing control of How our culture works it all changed so fast and now If part of the reason why donald trump is the president Is because his team knew more about where his followers were because they had access to his facebook data Then is mark suckerberg just is it fate a complete and and and let's let's let's point out people were saying the same Same thing about president obama's victories. He had more data. He crunched the data better And and he was the the tech president, right? He got celebrated for that whether or not a panned out uh So now if mark zuckerberg wants to run Do we have a choice or or is it has that Horse already left the stable and there is to me that is the defining anxiety of our age is Did the world get away from us? And they should honestly have here move away and will it ever come back? i'm trying to decide if this is If this is just the period where microsoft seemed unassailable and we're waiting For our google's and ebay's and facebook's to arrive Is the next wave of disruption right around the corner or is this standard oil? You know and and the problem with standard oil was that they they kept innovation from happening around them the reason that trust busters picked up and and got momentum was That standard oil was perceived and and other trusts like it as keeping people from competing with it and changing it and and innovating around it And those are modern terms used to to describe a historical Fact but that was that was kind of the idea is you have too much power We need to limit you we need to bust you up Uh, whereas microsoft people talked about but breaking up microsoft It was seriously bandied about as a proposal and then suddenly the innovations happened and microsoft looked like it was on the ropes And you didn't need to talk about that anymore Well, no a judge ruled to break up microsoft right and then it was overturned like that That's how close it came uh Let me pitch this Beyond whether or not anything needs to be broken up because I think politicians are going to investigate what they're going to investigate Amazon is going to get that push against it. Amazon will get that push Is our anxiety about this? Our natural antibody to it happening Is the fact that we are worried That youtube and facebook and twitter control too much of how our culture runs And we are anxious and we're writing our angry essays that If mark zuckerberg comes out doesn't matter how much he knows Who to talk to and who not to talk to based on facebook data he Will have a baseline distrust because we trust him and the amount of data that he has on us That will hamper what he does is that just the natural order of things that we are Turning against that concept so it does not turn against us The only question is how we turn about it and how fast Uh history has proven that yes, that is what happened whether it's the people throwing their sabos Into the machines It's no sabotage. Yeah, or getting or getting into to trust busting or just innovating right? I mean you didn't need to break up microsoft It turned out because enough innovation was happening and people turned to that and said well I'm going to use this free google drive thing that this this this cool little search engine has created. I'm going to use this gmail thing That's pretty interesting Uh, so Is that wave coming and if you have thoughts about where that wave is coming from let us know feedback at dailytechnewshow.com Could be coming from machine learning. Maybe there's a little startup out there That's going to just turn everything upside down could be coming from mesh mesh networking could be coming from the blockchain There's lots of regions. It could come out of but there's no obvious standard bearer for that Or is it going to have to be trust busting? Or is it going to have to be throwing the wooden shoes? You know and and and something something more dramatic And by the way, if we think this is bad right now We've already had You know carve outs in federal legislation for truck drivers to not allow self-driving trucks Be part of that that self-driving legislation Wait until we continue to see the the you know tech on a rapid scale start putting people out of work and You know that will that will only continue to exacerbate this situation And I and I have maintained that in the in the long run in the mid-range run Uh jobs don't go away because we decide what jobs are and and if and wealth doesn't Go away. It either gets concentrated or or passed around. That's the problem. Not it won't disappear But in the short term If it happens really fast it can cause some major disruption and it can cause your wars and and look, uh, it was something that I cheered Like an ewok at the end of return of the jedi When uber and lyft disrupted the taxi industry because I was so frustrated With every experience that I had It would be less exciting for me If they started doing podcasts and political talk shows that they could do better than me from machine learning, right? That just was like wow And they probably did exactly my tone of voice and they could do it better and it could be 24 hours I would be very frustrated. Uh, well folks we like talking about this kind of thing Thanks to everybody who suggests topics for us, uh in all the different places you can do So like our sub reddit at daily tech news show reddit.com our facebook group at facebook.com group slash daily tech news show Real quickly, I want to remind folks who uh have enjoyed the after on podcast that I also host with rob reed That there's a new episode out where rob talks to james barrett about the dangers of super intelligence A lot of topics that cross right over to what justin and I were talking about is a i bad Is it going to get out of control james barrett has one perspective? And it's a perspective that informed rob's book after on you can find that at after dash on dot com Also, we got a pick From a listener who says they have a wide range of tech-centric podcasts with heavy focus on ganu linux at jupiter broadcasting dot com Linux action news is very much like dts, but only once a week and all about linux So not that much, but but I get the format is the same They have linux unplugged which is a longer form discussion show about a handful of topics relating to linux and the free and open source community in general They really love linux and even use only linux computers for their production. It's pretty damn cool I hope the other ganu linux enthusiasts that listen to dts also like jupiter broadcasting as much as I do And then david from sunny and cool minnesota was thinking about what we were saying yesterday on the show about the Overwatch league and says I think you guys are on to something What I think we'll see is official team skins in the game for the actual teams So you will know if you're cheering for the right tracer cheers mate But then the fans of those teams can buy skins for their characters They won't be exactly the same skins But they'll have the team colors and the logos and revenue generated by those purchases Would be split between the teams and blizzard to help with funding the league and paying for stuff and generating income for teams Anyway, just one of my random thoughts for the day. Thank you david for that I am excited for whatever reason I have I have a real Interest in the overwatch league where I don't not play overwatch, but I would like to go see a live Game for the san francisco team Well, they're going to be they're going to kicking off the preseason down here in la Hmm at the at the blizzard arena in burbank, california. Oh, there's also a hearthstone tournament happened in there in october We'll talk. Uh, thank you just robby young of course for joining us Lots of other cool stuff that justin is doing out there. What what is but one that you can tell folks about? Uh, well, if you enjoyed us kind of dancing around the political arena, then you can go ahead and check out my podcast politics politics politics Uh, we did a couple cool things this week. Uh, not only the normal episode But also, uh, we have a little book club if you like reading about campaigns I love love love love love campaign books and so i'm reading them Uh, and uh, we have the campaign chaos book club. We just posted our episode about devil's bargain About steve bannon's relationship with donald trump throughout uh and before 2016 and now we are reading The hill dogs book herself what happened and we will do our review of that as soon as i am done So if you want to go ahead and read hillary clinton's book what happened then check that out and listen to politics politics politics So, uh, you know when the uh wrap-up episode is coming huge. Thanks to everybody who supports this show at patreon.com Dtns you have made it possible for us to do some amazing cool new things bringing sarah lane on the show doing experimental episodes as part of dts labs and A final friday monthly round table if you'd like to see us do that round table more often and you haven't back the show yet That's the next milestone is an increase the frequency and londoners Monday october night They'll be in london for a meet-up and live recording of the show With mr. Will harris. I think ian from text messages is probably going to show up You can get all the details and sign up to attend at bit dot ly slash dtns london Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com we're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m Eastern 20 30 utc at alphakeak radio dot com and diamond club dot tv Our website is daily tech news show dot com and we'll be back tomorrow with special guest keith townsen to talk about How hard it is for it people to keep secure with my special co-host sarah lane talk to you tomorrow This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program Hmm Good combo Yeah, that was um interesting I uh, man It's a hard one to talk about because well It's a problem. I had the way I see it and not with your discussion But like the situation is it's layered in such a way that so many things Uh that people would attribute To tech are I think indicative of a larger, you know issue for example with uh Like globalization or the ability of parties to kind of micro target specific At least in the us, you know districts for gerrymandering, right? So you have all these all these things that people just kind of feel very I have a huge anxiety about and they're they're lashing out the biggest fish That they can you know, they that they can see In front of them as they see is kind of being the the standard bear for all these other things You mean a fish called equifax? Ooh, wait, who put that in beat master? Wait, he didn't just type fish. Did he he typed ph ish Uh, I didn't even see that it's like weird Uh, yeah, you know, I I didn't want to get into it too explicitly, but I do think that there is There is this idea that The fear of globalization Uh is just real right now and and the idea that We are going to our lives are going to be changed by people that are far away from us and we can't talk to Uh is is something that is both on the micro and the macro Uh, you know enough to make your brow sweat I mean having have actually knowing, you know extended family members or who are in that situation where their jobs were going to be basically off-shored or or uh Basically contracted out to another organization. I mean, there's I think for a lot of people It it it becomes less of an academic issue and more of a like, oh no, oh crap What am I going to do to pay my mortgage to feed my kids? Sure? But but most people aren't in that situation and they're still afraid Well, so there's a do you know what the elephant curve is? It's the one the elephant tail and then goes up and then his level and then pops back down and goes up like an elephant Yes. Hey, that's really good. I mean, so you've seen it, right? Yeah So the the part where dips so the the the theory behind that is if you take the the aggregate, um, you know I guess what what's uh standard of living or income Wages they've they've gone up for Everyone from the bottom up to like the 60 percent mark and then from like the 60 to the 80 percent it actually hasn't moved in some cases is dropped and everyone on the 90 plus side also see a boost so really Everyone's going up except for that 20 per 20 15 percent Near the top, which is what we would consider to be in the middle class arena of most developed countries and so Their wages have been stagnant. Well, they see well, they see everyone else is going up So, you know, the feeling would be is like, hey, I'm falling behind everyone else is moving on up Even though they're not it's a perception. Yeah. No, I'm not a perception. Yeah. Yeah There's also the idea that Silicon Valley connotes a cold, uh, uh You know bottom line kind of a idea much in the same way that I think You know, we there there's baseline fears about banking and and stuff like that that, you know anything like corporate rating That there are that that instead of it being You know braggadocious greed is good You know traders and corporate raiders and the new boss that comes in And and cuts your job because you know, it can save five cents Uh, that Silicon Valley has a similar maybe, you know, not in in the flourishes, but a cold Hey, well, if if if we if you don't do this then you shouldn't be doing this you'd be happier painting You know, uh, why aren't you done etsy instead of doing your job? Uh, uh, don't worry. We'll take care of you. You can just monetize on our platform. Oh, wait a minute Uh, also, you're not ad friendly. Sorry. We couldn't monetize you, but uh, I'm sure there's other places that you can do what you do Uh That it's like you don't get a say you're going to be put into their silos the bigger their silos get and they don't care about you Yeah, I think a lot of uh, a lot of the exposure of tech's Bugginess to the wider populace is another contributing factor And I think that's why this is so hard to figure out for a lot of people is there isn't just one reason It's not just the economy. It's not just looming automation. It's not just outsourcing It's all of these things kind of been a perfect storm And just the fact that I don't know how this tech works and it's got so much of my important information And it's buggy and it crashes and I don't understand it And then I read that people can hack in and get all my information And I don't know what the real risks are and I'm scared I'm scared of these companies having so much control over my life in a way that I don't understand Or Enable to influence right Like I I don't know what to do like I can't I can't just go into their computers and punch up a bunch of things to make myself all safe And so so I think I think it's I'm wondering if this is also kind of bridging the whole generational Gap where people who are comfortable and and enthusiastic about embracing technology Versus people were just like, you know, they're users of technology, but more out of need necessity Then any kind of like oh, I'm I'm a geek. I'm an I'm a technophile Or I want to learn about technology more like, you know, it's technology as a tool Well, I think the other thing that's that's huge is that with the advent of the smartphone where we were now able to Take a significant amount of computing and internet connectivity with us all over the place It spread out what technological companies were Right, like initially it was all about things you do on your computer or ways to sell you a better faster computer and then The phone happened and now it Airbnb on a level that you would never have it before it's uber on a level that you would never have it before now tech disruption Comes to everything And and that's another thing where it's like wow, this isn't just again, it's like It is the breakout from Everybody used to come to me and ask me. Hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about this tech thing? Are you going to get the new iphone? I don't know Only nerds get the new the computer thing uh and now It's everywhere. You don't understand it and might make your job more at 11 Yeah, I think too There is something to the fact that so much money can be made on the existing technology that a lot of companies aren't Spending time trying to come up with new technology. I just thought of this the second so it may be absolutely way off base But if I'm doing a startup Looking at an app, right? Like what's a service I can provide? What can I do with my code that'll make this app platform work for me? which means Disruption of those existing companies is less likely because it mostly takes A really good new piece of technology to fully disrupt now Uh, two of our biggest examples are counter to that facebook didn't use to new technology It just used the existing web 2.0 platform to create something interesting same for google They just use the dot-com era stuff, but they came up with a way better algorithm Uh, so maybe i'm off base. Maybe all you need is software for that, but I don't see as much investment in exploring new technology the way wasny acted with apple 2 or the way apple did with the ipod Uh Let me also point this out in my mind I was thinking of two different companies when I said that and I just realized those were both examples from apple let me uh Let me pitch this Whenever I know tom has a hard out so we Oh, I already picked the the title. It's down with tech okay Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt Whenever anybody writes a san francisco trend piece over the last five years What is an out-of-towner because they're here for The world series or they're here for the super bowl or they're here, you know to cover a tech conference and they write about The city of san francisco What do they write about? Uh, they write about the cost of living. Yep, and the homelessness And and the homelessness has been there since I was a kid Sure, but now but that's that's a part of it, right? So there's also this narrative idea By people that don't live here and many that do that We are the first wave and the tech folk came like locusts And they ate the entire city to the point where there is just you know Uh craziness in the streets and nobody can afford anything and it's more expensive than new york city and Now they're in your town and they're they're lio landly from the simpsons singing about how great a monorail will be when To springfield and ultimately we are brockway ogdenville and north haverbrook It's um, yeah, I mean it's it's amazon wants to take over your town exactly Amazon Amazon, you know and that that's the thing. I mean you could not to Not to far too far far straight, but that's kind of the fear of investment in general Right in cities like sydney moburn, vancouver You have a huge wave of Real estate investment which drives up the cost of everything as everyone uses Real estate is kind of an investment vehicle and people are being priced out of their home I mean a lot of the same issues right being priced out of their home Working at a job that doesn't cover the cost of living for some people to move farther away Even though the you know the this this city hall and business people this is great for business You know now we got more money coming in we got it's it's one of those things that really I think requires Not just strong leadership, but really kind of You know a very broad vision of how these things should all tie in together because there will be disruption For certain sectors for for people and you need to be ahead of the curve on a lot of that stuff Right, it's not just you know, give me the investment money. Give me give me give me Like is the fox con investment that wisconsin is getting that they what shelled out three billion Dollars to get is that going to really be in the long term a worthwhile Investment. I mean they're just assembling stuff. They're not going to be doing Any of the fabbing that other the other fox con Uh manufacturer manufacturing plants do so. I mean It's it's it's a lot of things and I think I think that's where the angry angst from people come from Is they're just getting mad at everything and everyone and they're picking the closest thing to get mad at Yeah All right, folks. Thanks for watching. Thanks for supporting and uh, I hope you're not angry with us We'll talk to you tomorrow. We love you