 From Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation. Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the Cube's coverage of Cloud Foundry Summit 2018 here in Boston. Happy to welcome back to the program. Ken Goldberg is the engineering director at Google. Ken, thanks for joining me. Thank you, it's always a pleasure. So Ken, what are the big questions coming in? We talked to you at the KubeCon show before. Kubernetes, Cloud Foundry, Container Serverless, all these things matching up. You've been here at the show for about a day. What have you learned so far? How do all these kind of fit together in your mind? Actually, it was great being here for the last 24 hours so far. And just seeing how Cloud Foundry community is really opening and welcoming influence from other communities in the Cloud native space. And we see it in different ways. We see work that is being done on building some open standards, for example. So working with the Cloud Foundry on things like OCI, the Open Container Initiative, and the CSI, which is the Container Storage Interface. But not only that, for example, we in Google have been working last year building Kubo, which then became the Cloud Foundry Container Runtime and really bringing things together. And I think that's awesome because like any other technology, we need to know how we can take the best out of everything. And this is what really user wants to know. They want to know that when they are making a decision or choice of a technology, that technology can move with them forward. The last thing that we also see a lot of interest about the Open Service Broker and how you can really mesh things together with different platforms. And I wonder if you can help us went through this a little bit. We've heard Google talking for a while about Open Cloud, and that means it doesn't be all one source in the public cloud portability between clouds, public and private. Google's had many partnerships over the years with there. How do these pieces fit together in your mind? I think it all starts with what user wants. Always talk about the customer and what is their pain. And the pain in reality is that they have a very complex environment. They have on-prem. They want to use some of the cloud services. Sometimes they have some places, like we hear from retail, they have some warehouses that they don't have actually good connectivity, but they still want to sell. They still want to have the digital transformation. And I think that's the main thing that what we hear from users, that they want to have that flexibility over to run their business. Because this is what they really have to do and they want to compete more effectively. So thinking about that, the other piece which we hear about users is that they want to make sure, like we talked about Cloud Foundry before, they want to make sure that the infrastructure they choose, though the tools will allow them to evolve. And that can be in different ways. It can be about maybe having flexibility to choose different tools, but also not to be locked in to a specific vendor because that happened to them before. So they want to make sure that they can continue and move forward because of the technology we know today, maybe probably will change in the future. So by having all of that together, that leads us to some of the pieces I've talked about in the keynote. The first one is portability. We achieve it by open source. We believe in open source because it does bring the community together. We learn about users, partners. We have an amazing ecosystem. So that's one. The second piece is about extensibility. And this is where you can see how Cloud Foundry can actually integrate into Kubernetes is because of those extension points. We don't know where innovation will come from, what will be the next cool thing. And back in KubeCon, I talked about some serverless framework we see on top of Kubernetes. All of that is possible through those extensions. Open Service Broker is actually a combination of two. So Open Service Broker is an open standard. It allows you to consume services from different platforms. We saw in the keynote, so Google is announcing, now in beta, the Google Managed Service Broker supporting the Open Service Broker API. And you consume it out from any Kubernetes cluster using a catalog, service catalog. And it is available also through those extensions. So when we think about open hybrid cloud, we think about that you can run it anywhere and you have interoperability. So you can consume different tools and you can extend it and innovate on top of it. So that's our way of thinking. Yeah, I mean, we know the only thing that's constant in this industry today is change. One of the things we've been tracking is if I look at an application used to be, I deploy an application, it takes me 12 to 18 months at least. And then once I'm running it, gosh, sure we're going to run it for three to five years, but no, no, actually we're going to run it for 10 to 12 years. We're going to keep it longer. How does this kind of decomposability of applications and having things work components? You know, we talk about things like flexibility and speed, but how do you hear from customers really from the application side of things? This is all about microservices, right? Just making sure that your application is architected in a way that allows you to change things. I think also the developers are now used to that cycle, which is really fast by talking about agility and how quickly you can deploy changes. No, I keep talking with my engineering team, like don't get too attached to anything because things do change and requirements change all the time. And if you're building your application right, you can do those changes. For example, again, going back to the open service broker, you can use a service, first of all, maybe your own service, like your own SQL, but then you can use to a managed service. Like if you're running on a GKE or having Cloud Foundry running on GCP, then you can use one of the managed services offered by Google. Anything new you're hearing from users? You know, what are some of their biggest challenges? What's exciting them these days? So it depends which user and also who you talk in that audience. I think developers are still very excited about the opportunity and the different tools and open source and how quickly technology is moving forward. When we talk with enterprise, they are very excited about consistency because it's hard. Like that complexity and managing all of it is really hard to train your operational teams and the developers on different tools. So they are very much concerned about that. They're TCO, so they care about, of course, the cost of the infrastructure, but also the people. If you don't talk about how hard it is to train and change technologies or doing a cultural change within an organization, so they care about consistency. And this is something that is really in the heart of the thing that we are building. So starting with Kubernetes, we talk about flexibility without compromising consistency, and you do it by building obstructions and letting everyone own a different piece. And there's a lot of excitement about Istio in that sense because what it allows you is to create an obstruction for managing services, which is separated from the code that you build. So let's say you want to, for example, deploy a new policy of access control to your services. You can do it through Istio because you have proxies in front of all your services, regardless where they run, by the way. You can have services on VMs, on Cloud Foundry, on Google Kubernetes Engine, or anywhere else you actually would like to have them. And you have that consistent layer in front of all of them. You can do troubleshooting easier because you will have the same metrics and data and telemetry. So moving into that direction, creating more obstructions that are creating less friction for the end user while still allowing the platform to evolve. If you have this platform on top of it, you can still move services from running from one platform to another. But that person that is using the data, actually their experience won't change. Ken, what should we be looking for from Google and your ecosystem for the rest of 2018? So of course we continue and invest a lot in Kubernetes and its ecosystem. And you can see it all the time. We are bringing more and more tools in open source, showing some of our best practices of how we manage development and production into the community. Some of it is in, like, projects, like developer experience projects like Scaffold and others that were announced in the last few months. So we'll see more of those coming. And some of it is also around the best practices. So we have been delivering messages of how you should run your clusters or application more secure. And of course some of those offerings will be on GCP. But that's another area where we are heavily investing. We have a lot of experience and we are happy to share that. Okay, last question I have for you. Is the world becoming more Google-y or is Google becoming more like the rest of the world? I want to say that the world is becoming more Google-y. Being Google-y means many things for people here that maybe don't know what means. To me, being Google-y is being nice and being kind and also being open to more ideas. And that's what I would hope to see the world moving towards. But yes, definitely Google, as part of it being Google-y is working, continuing to work with the community and get feedback. And that's great. Well, Ken Goldberg, it's a pleasure to catch up with you again. We will have lots more Google content and Google-y guests. Not only here at the Cloud Foundry Summit, we're going to be at KubeCon Copenhagen, as well as KubeCon Seattle at the end of the year. And really excited to say that we will be at the Google Cloud Next show this summer. So look for lots more of theCUBE. Thank you, Ken, for joining me. That's exciting. I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching theCUBE.