 Okay, all right, so I think the first one in the spreadsheet is ingrained, not ingrained, very clearly missing an E. Any thoughts on, on this? Oh, hi Erin. Good morning or evening, afternoon. We just got started literally just open the spreadsheet and mentioned ingrained. I, I've seen a few people looking at red BPF, which is their library for other purposes, which I thought was a good sign that they were, you know, had designed something that's useful outside their specific use case. Sorry, that was quite good. People seemed like people are recommending that as the best leverage used for rusty BPF at the moment. It's going to be the impression I've got so it was quite positive. I share that impression. Yeah. I feel like Rust and the BPF is still a fairly new sport but you know it's pretty exciting. You know, I think it's going to grow. I also like the fact that they listed the clear reason of how they're different from Falco. That is always very useful during their years. Yeah, the Falco people seemed interested in this. So it seemed to be quite complimentary. Okay, good. Oh, Chris is mentioning they'll need to re-license to a patch of two. Funnily enough, I looked at, I was looking at the red BPF thing and that had just been re-licensed. So it's, I guess, the ingrained part is still GPL, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, we can handle that on part of onboarding, kind of like we did with GRPC and other projects that had that issue. So I'm not too worried about as long as they intend to do it. Yeah. All right, any other comments? It doesn't seem to be too many people, contributors in, do we care? How many are there? I'm not even talking about diversity, right? There's the ingrained repository lists for contributors. I think this is definitely in the realm of like judgment. We don't have a kind of red BPF has got 15 though, which is. Yeah. And I think you could make an argument that if it comes into the sandbox, it may get more attention and more contribution. Right. I agree. I think it's for sandbox, the bar is certainly a lot lower as far as variety and diversity of contributors from different places. Yeah, 250 odd stars. It's definitely more than just a hobby, isn't it? Yeah, the related question matters. Are we incubating red BPF or ingrained? Well, I mean, in sandbox, either could happen or both. I mean, I think it's like we're flexible enough that we don't have to determine in advance, which parts of the project are going to be most successful or what direction it might go in. So maybe red BPF will be the most successful part of it. Or maybe those lessons are separate. I mean, who knows. I mean, I think if it was just red BPF being contributed, I might be questioning whether or not CNCF is necessarily the appropriate home for a generic BPF part, but as part of a bigger project. And I guess for some of you, this might be the first time you've done sandbox. So the way we normally do this is we put votes in chat. So I will type in something like votes for ingrained and you can put your plus ones or minus ones below and Amy keeps track. And that's the way we've been doing it. Fabulous. I think the next one is Cuba healthy. Cuba healthy. She's coming from Comcast. Any comments or thoughts? I think it, you know, seems like it meets the criteria to me. Well, testing tools. We have a we have a category for case testing, but I don't think that we have a category for testing like a broader category. This one is synthetic tests. So I don't know if it's worth introducing a broader category for all the testing tools that come to sandbox or hmm, this strikes me again as another one of those projects that, you know, I was kind of started thinking about as like ecosystem projects where it's a really cool thing. It's great. It's not at the same kind of scale and importance as something like Kubernetes or Prometheus or, you know, blah, blah, blah. But that's no reason at all not to put it into sandbox. Yeah. Right. Any other comments? It has a healthy number of contributors, which I was just going to say it has somehow 57 contributors, which is really impressive. Yeah, nearly nine nearly 1000 stars, which is. Yeah. Definitely got some and then use a project. Yeah. It's for Cuba healthy. Wonderful. The next one is K8 GB. Another end user project. Oh, is that what it's supposed to be a South African bank. Okay. That's cool. And what did they say about the thinking for contributing. It looks like they've been featured on some, you know, community shows and things looks like they're, you know, interested in engaging with the community. Do you think there's any, any relationship with the Kubernetes project that we should be, you know, does it make sense for this to be a separate project. It seemed to be aiming at multi cluster. I remember hearing about them in a single cluster session, but I never did in more than that. And again, there's no reason why, you know, a sandbox project couldn't form stronger links with the Kubernetes project. If that's successful. So, okay. And yeah, the comments on that one. One is vineyard. I have to make myself say vineyard and not vineyard, which is coming in from Alibaba. Anyone got any knowledge of this one. Any comments. Yeah, we reviewed it on the storage SIG. It's interesting. It took us kind of a while to understand how it even related and would be helpful to CNCF but it's certainly is different than anything we have. I think it has notoriety there. I know, I know it'll be background of this project. It's actually, I think, highly related to the machine learning and big data field, which is kind of, we don't have similar project actually in sense for now. If we have kubi flow it will be actually I think can drop into the same category. I mean, honestly, off the cuff when we reviewed it in the storage SIG we were like this feels more like an Apache project because of that machine learning aspect but I do know that that is growing in intensity across Kubernetes users so I think it could go either way. I was just mentioned I was going to ask this, there's another Linux foundation, another Linux foundation foundation. Yeah, like I've taught a logical, but yeah. It's really up tall y'all to decide you can make a recommendation that hey, maybe you're a better fit. Yeah, and I'm definitely seeing this is like a really superficial look but I'm seeing things in there about tensor. And that does make me think is this is this the best time. I don't know if it's the best time. Because that was our first impression as well Alex and I is that hot it seems like it would fit better than the Apache foundation, but just looking at the comments about how it's aligned with perfected competing. I mean, but do we not want this kind of projects. I mean, you know, like large scale data is a cloud native problem. It's just, I mean, I could we've been like kind of neglecting it but I don't see that that's something that we necessarily want to continue to put into other places necessarily. I mean, it seems saying saying that all of it should live in Apache or somewhere else seems a bit weird to me. No, I, and that's kind of why we were on the fence like, you know, there hasn't been a strong focus on actually managing and using data scale yet. We're more focused on the infrastructure components compared to act, you know, how data flows in and out and manage and analytics everything else so I think that would be into to Liz's point at the beginning of the year, focusing on what our strategy should be I think this is kind of where we're trending into new territory and maybe this is a good step in that direction to open it up. I think that's a really good thing. I mean, if we had a momentum towards more of these kind of projects and maybe that would. Well, is there always going to be a giant gaping hole in the fact that we don't have cube flow. So, looking at the getting started and installation. I don't see anything related to like big data such right. It's just they provide an API and they give an engine. And so it's, it's an object manager. The name also says live vineyard. So it's not like standalone framework for ML or anything like that. So there's like one piece one component so it doesn't feel like a big thing. Exactly. I think more like a plug in for example to Kubernetes. So in that case, Kubernetes can be used to manage with the large scale data which can be used for machine learning scenario that is my understanding of this project. Correct. That's correct that you understand is correct. And the last column they goofed up a little bit. They have references to fluid, which is another one which is which is later, which is another contribution that they are trying to make. Oh, I missed what that fluid thing was about. Okay, so that's a different project all together isn't it. Yeah, it comes later. But, but it does seem to do like in memory. I guess that bookie bookkeeping and integrating with the coordinate scheduler for right and sort of topology aware data data handling. Maybe we should ask a few more questions to them through six storage. I guess I'm yeah I'm wondering whether well first of all, it does look like that column P is a block copy so perhaps there's some missing information there. And I wonder whether there's a question that says, personally speaking, I'm kind of open to the idea that we go in this direction but I'm not 100% sure whether if we do this today, is that the best thing for this project. You know, we'll having this project in the sandbox be the best way to make it successful and maybe it is maybe I don't know. We have the recording from six storage as well of their presentation to the group. If that I can find that and share that out. Yeah. And is this written using C++ or is it written using Python. Both, which is something that is kind of weird. So it's a mix of Python and C++. We just have the Python to integrated pandas and it looks like the chorus. No, no, that's, it's apparent. It seems to be more than that because they're talking about using S3FS as a Python file system interface for S3. It seems to provide S3 bindings and pie bind for seamless operation and C++ and Python, which is so it's a kind of it looks more integrated than I thought, which is weird. I haven't looked at it in detail but I was just looking at it just now I was thinking that's a little bit weird. We want to wait to vote tell. I think you guys can review the six storage presentation. Yeah, and Harry, would it make sense for you to have a chat with them and just sort of sound out why they're thinking CNCF rather than something more machine learning oriented be interesting to get a bit more background on that. Maybe they could fix column P. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so we will not vote on that one on vineyard will hold them over to next time. Great. The next one in the list is he three local. There's some like fun way of pronouncing that that I'm missing. I actually raised a comment regarding to this project. This has no stars. Super new that March. I mean literally the guy hasn't even started his own project. Yeah, it's even lifting Sunday Ali as a maintainer. So I say it's something wrong. Yeah, I think it's a bit of a 12 commits. Most of them are modifying the change log in the read me and the roadmap. I guess maybe created. Yeah. Yeah, maybe the person who did this did a lot of work offline and then committed it all in one commit. Or maybe it was committed when the repository was created. And that was it. Yeah, I feel like we would like to see a little bit more community momentum on this project before we to accept it to sandbox. I feel a tweet coming on about starring at least starring your own project. All right, I'm assuming we don't need to vote on that one. Do we need to vote. I don't think so. Yeah, I would say actually Amy where you marking us waiting for more community momentum we don't want to see in the spreadsheet for, I don't know what six months. Yeah. Right. Okay, moving on to clock clock containers. I feel like I've heard of this from somewhere but I can't think. I am. I took a lot of choices about it a few weeks ago when it came up on the application because it was kind of interesting. You might have seen that it's basically a kind of different set of trade offs to G visa for doing the isolation by reflecting schools back into the house. Basically, you don't run Linux. Pretty much at all in the guest you just use IO earring and shared memory to move this call filtered schools into the house. I didn't look at it in a lot of detail but it seems definitely kind of for higher performance than G visa or QMU. And then finally, at least according to their initial measurements and faster start up times. I think as a sandbox it's, I mean it's not got a lot of traction, and it's very new, but I think it probably kind of passes the sandbox bar. Just in 17 comments, total. Yeah. I don't know. I think I do remember you tweeting about it and I remember thinking that's actually an interesting idea. But I do feel like this is very low in terms of engagement. It's again, it's very new as well. Yeah. It seems like we'd want to hold up a similar bar as we did the last project and pushing it out six months just to see more of community engagement around it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm inclined to, to agree and I think the, you know, the reasoning for why they want to join the CNC F it, it slightly reads as to make our project famous, which I would like to compare it with the previous one because many thousands of lines more code. But again, it is a weirdly all in one commit, like this, really this commit called add source code with 542 files and 117,000 additions is just a little bit weird. Like there's no previous history but it is one gigantic commit of a lot of stuff. Because there are six flavors of quark, they could use for a rename space for everyone. That's excellent. And would anyone particularly feel strongly that we should go to vote or I would like to see the get history from previously because I just don't, I don't believe. Sorry, I'm just looking at this commit. I'm still scrolling. It would be nice to have some actual break and down history for this commit. Yeah. It's like, I don't believe someone just made that from, from nothing on a, on a, on a March afternoon. He talks really, really quickly. Yeah. Yeah, I think we should wait for a bit more momentum. Everyone happy if we move on to trickster, trickster proxy.io. This is about as far as I got in the spreadsheet beforehand. It would be really interesting to know what the sing observability folks think of this but it's pretty moment to me. 1.3,000 stars. Chris is saying it's a Comcast project. Okay. Yeah, it came out of Comcast and it looks like they moved it to another GitHub org. Yeah, I am. I had was the list for primary functions of their stuff. And I wasn't too. I couldn't figure out like how those four are related to each other, or whether they put all the fall in the same bucket. Did anybody feel into that. I didn't get that far. You know, I mean, as if I recall, it was just basically something they built to help deal with caching a bunch of Prometheus instances and it looks like they've kind of expanded it to other time series servers. Yeah, that would be interesting because that would that would definitely be an interesting outcome if this was to become a just a generic caching layer for other people. So they don't have to implement their own with that makes sense. Yeah, that would be interesting because that would that would definitely be an interesting outcome if this was to become a just a generic caching layer for other projects. They definitely passed the bar to take a water. Should we do votes for trickster. If I can smell them. Okay, and the next one is SSVM, which is a kind of, is it a wasm runtime. Yeah, it's a wasm runtime. I think it's actually by some of the old Jboss folks are involved. Well, I think we've been saying that this is going to be a bit of a hot topic this year so this seems to consolidate that opinion. 700 odd stars. I didn't attend, but it was presented at Siegfried early March. I didn't attend. I particularly remember it being one of the ones that I know Ricardo Aravena mentioned a few, you know, at the TSE meeting but. No, this is not. I had not heard of this one before. It's not one of them. They came later. They came after Ricardo presented at the TSE. Okay. Which is, you know, it's fine. Okay, if one. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Now, if everyone is dropping, are we still poor at Amy? Not when you drop. No. Okay, but we can do one more before. Yeah. Yeah. So one observation on this one was in the product description, it says that they are trying to define two extensions. I would like to use CNCF to be able to drive them to specification as default implementations or turn it into specification, which is fine. It's just that that that's what they are here for. They are here to, so they can use their CNCF presence to be. Yeah. So that's one observation of some stuff. I have reservations about SSVM as the name given that the company behind it is second stay. Feel like that might be a bit close. Yeah, I mean, we could question the rename, but. There's an awful lot of other projects in the GitHub org as many of which are also called SSVM. It's very unclear to me what might be part of this and what's not. So maybe that's that's two questions for the one is the name, the second would be exactly what they're contributing. I mean, I feel quite positive towards the general idea of the project, but I'm a little bit. Yeah, TSE would like more clarification sounds right. And specifically to make sure they would be okay with a change of name. And then when it comes to this thing about standardizations, I mean, we, this creating standards through, you know, building code, but we don't want to be a standard organization. But they could do that with, you know, through through kind of collaboratively building implementations and push any specs to the, what's that thing beginning with J. Yeah, what's the but what's the status of web assembly and there's foundation because there was another conversation about that. Yeah, I mean, there's some work going on there but I don't know where that that is going to end up, you know, there's, I view SSVM as a runtime right so whether what specs they implement and so on I think is a whole other problem and that will probably the specs will probably be defined in another body. Anyway, from my perspective. But when I talk to them in depth I think they just wanted to contribute the runtime SSVM and if you look at the dependency chain, it's fairly simple they don't drag in much at all so fairly simple. Okay. I guess that just leaves the name. Yeah, I'll have to talk I'll talk to our legal folks quickly I don't know if it's going to be an issue it is a little bit close to the second state name but I don't know if that will be an issue it's more for comfortable. I feel a little bit like that's to, you know, it, what does SSVM stand for. Okay. Super super VM I don't know. They should use a W at the front. Yes. So yeah there's a couple so I don't know, you know we have to be sensitive time because people are dropping off so I could reach out to them and ask for a rename and talk to our lawyers the question is if you want to do you want to vote or wait until that topic is done because we could vote and say like hey we're comfortable it as long as they change your name, or come back, you know, two months later whenever we meet. Yeah, again. The other thing I'm slightly wondering about is, I'm just noticing that they have 11 people in the organization, and I guess they all work for second state. And there are 11 contributors, so maybe it would be interesting to. I'm not. Yeah, it looks interesting. I'm not saying that I feel like we could hold a could hold a vote but perhaps it'd be better to get clarification on those things first. Sounds good. Yep. All right, I think at this point I should probably drop off, because I'm not sure we'll get through the next one so how many do we get through Amy. Okay, so we can push to be able to do another one. Probably going to look for the 27th of April. Okay. Unless there's anything anyone particularly thinks we really really need to prioritize talking about and the rest of the spreadsheet. Alright, apologies to the, to the folks we didn't get to but I guess we held an extra meeting this month. And moving forward, so. Alright, excellent. Thanks everyone. See you next week.