 Hi, I'm Rusty Komori, and this is Beyond the Lines on Think Tech, Hawaii. I was the head coach of the Putahoe Boys Varsity Tennis Team for 22 years, and we were fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championships. My book Beyond the Lines is about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence, and finding greatness, which is what this show is all about. My special guest today is the legendary shark expert and co-owner of One Ocean Diving. She is Ocean Ramsey, and today we are going Beyond Marine Conservation. Hey Ocean, welcome to the show. Aloha Rusty and Mahalo Nui Loa for having me. I'm honored to be a part of your show. Oh, I'm so excited to have you. I mean, you've been doing such wonderful things through most of your life now, and I know that you grew up in Hawaii, and I want to know, how did you get your passion for the ocean? Obviously, my parents love the ocean, and growing up in Hawaii, I feel like it's just part of our culture, and also going to Tahiti Loa and visiting friends in Ohana in different areas of the world, and getting to dive with so many different marine animals. My mom's a swimmer, dad's a diver, so I just naturally kind of fell in love with dolphins and whales, and from the first time I ever saw a shark, I was instantly enamored with them, and I do think it's a little bit of the Hawaiian culture, but a lot of the Tahitian culture, where there's that beautiful coexistence and that respect for nature, at least that I was taught growing up, and I definitely think that that probably helped to shape my respect for nature, and what I hope to pass on for future generations. Ocean most people have a wrong misperception. It's a misperception of sharks, and I want you to share what you've learned through these years about the correct shark behaviors. I think a lot of people, unfortunately, they feel like sharks are monsters, and I don't blame them. I think that they're portrayed in regular media. They look like scary monsters. You think of films like Jaws or 47 meters down on the shallows, pretty much everything that you see all the time, and then even the news reports, often times they really like to sensationalize them, and it's just unfortunate because growing up and getting to actually spend time with sharks and seeing how beautiful they are, and then going to school and studying marine bio and ecology and ethology and spending time with them and you get to realize just how actually cautious they can be, and how that plays into their role as essentially the doctors of the ocean. That's why I work so hard to help protect sharks and educate people about them is because we know scientifically that they're important for marine ecosystems, and actually, scientifically it's proven that anywhere that you have high shark populations, you actually have healthier fish populations, which affects fishermen around the world, and that's something that I really want to further educate people about is their importance in the marine ecosystem and how that ultimately affects humans. Ocean, I totally agree with you, and people don't realize that. They don't realize how the survival of sharks greatly impacts all of us humans in the world. Can you talk more about that? Yeah, I actually, I did a TED talk on just the basic concept of how sharks affect us all, but essentially 70% of the air that we breathe comes from the ocean and trucks are a vital component to that healthy marine ecosystem. By picking off the weak-wounded injured sick, dead and dying, they keep diseases from spreading, they keep fish stocks healthier, and that ties into that entire marine ecosystem web that everyone relies on regardless of where they're at in the world, but especially smaller coastal islands that directly rely off of fisheries and off of coral reefs. Those are the ones that are most heavily impacted by climate change and overfishing and overfishing of sharks, especially for things like shark fin soup. I know, I said that drives me nuts too, and Ocean, when I see these amazing pictures and video of you, I'm thinking, who's taking this video and who's taking these pictures? It's your husband, Juan Olifant, and you guys had a very unique wedding. I'm very, very fortunate to work with him. When we teamed up, it was kind of like people don't really know about the science, they don't really know what's going on, but with his degree, he's a graduate from BYU, Hawaii, with Fine Art and Photography, and graduated from Google right up there in the EA, and so he utilized his degree to showcase sharks and show that you can actually interact with them, and so I could be swimming around with a big, beautiful, great white, or you could show a picture of just a great white, and if you show the picture of just a great white, people just think, oh, it's a monster, it's on its way to its next meal, but he realized that showing a picture of someone actually peacefully coexisting actually had a bigger impact for conservation, and so teaming up with him to do water-inspired conservation, one ocean conservation, one ocean diving, and then his history would save the sea turtles international, the other non-profit that we work with has been very, very influential for conservation, and I'm really, really lucky to work with him, and he's such a talented and kind person and kind to animals, and so of course we got married in the most remote areas in Tahiti, where there's more sharks than people, because that's just the kind of people that we are, but yeah, it was beautiful, and we were literally in the water surrounded by sharks for our wedding, and we didn't have it in any other way. Yeah, no, that was so, it was perfect, I mean, and you guys make such a great team, I mean, it's, it's, you know, seeing the videos, seeing the pictures are absolutely priceless, and Ocean, I have two books, and in my books, I talk about finding greatness, I talk about creating a superior culture of excellence, which is what you and Juan are totally doing, and I also talk about making a huge positive impact, which is what you both are doing as well. What can the average person do to make an impact in helping ocean and marine conservation in their way? That is such a wonderful question, and thank you for highlighting that and furthering that in our culture here. I do believe that regardless of what your background is, you don't need to be a marine biologist to help safe sharks, you know, if anything, look at Juan, he's made a greater impact for conservation through his photography, and I think it really is, it's that passion, that drive and that willingness to actually further good efforts in a community that really ended up making the impact. So regardless of your background, if you're a student, you're a photographer, you're a writer, you're a web designer, whatever it is, if you can take a little bit of time and help to further other good efforts, whether it be good conservation efforts or good community programs, small things that people can do at home in regards specifically to conservation are helping to support legislation for better protection or for marine protected areas, being a conscious consumer, knowing how your seafood is caught, you want to support the small local fishermen that make a much smaller impact versus the big industrial fishing vessels that have a 90% bycatch rate. Also single use plastics, you know, if you have a choice to buy something that's wrapped in multiple layers of plastic versus something that could be locally sourced, organic and minimal packaging, all those little things really, really add up. And I personally love media. I think that it's wonderful what social media is doing now where people have their own voice in their own opinion. You can back that up with scientific facts and personal real firsthand experience. And like you said with books, it's like I wrote a book. And so this is full of information for people who might be really nervous about meeting a shark. So that's a good book for if they want to interact with them, they want to deter them, or they want to understand more about them. And so, you know, writers and, you know, people like you that work in media and your writer, you know, you're spreading information and it's good information. I'm glad you showed your book because I love your book. I have it. And it's it's so I mean, writing a book is hard. That one took me four years. I don't know how long years probably didn't take as long, but always in the water. So but it's good information to have. And I think especially for the life saving information, I wanted people to understand that if they are in a situation where they encounter a shark, that they better know what to do and what not to do to avoid the adverse interaction or worst case scenario. And also, I hope that it inspires people to maybe help support efforts to save sharks. And I just realized from reading older books, how far we've come in the last couple of generations. And I was kind of recently very much aware, unaware of, I guess, the detail of Hawaii's history with sharks. And, you know, I kind of grew up in this little bubble not watching too much TV and, you know, just going to Hedy and we like, swim around with the sharks all the time. This is normal. But yeah, it's I think it's the fear that comes from a lot of Hollywood films that has people so terrified and unwilling to support conservation measures, versus the reality and facts that we're so lucky to just grow up with nature here. Ocean, you mentioned earlier that you're a marine biologist and you got your masters in shark ethology. And sharks, they don't, they're just curious about us, but they don't really, we're not on their food list, right? No, we're not. And that's a big misperception that people have. They think that if a big shark swims past us, that they're going to look over and swim over and eat us. But the reality is, is actually sharks swim past their first swimmers and divers all day every day. But that unfortunately doesn't make the news, but it is a reality. They're actually generally more cautious than curious. Now there are things that you can do to help reduce the chance that they would be curious about you, like minimizing splashing, not wearing bright colors that really stand out, not acting like an injured animal. And constantly when you're in the ocean, turning around, so it appears that you're like a predator and that you're aware. So they're not able to just essentially sneak up behind you to get more information about you. And I do in the book, I advise on like spear fishing and specifics on surfing one and I both serve. So there are a lot of things that you can do to reduce your adverse interactions. But statistically, and based on their actual behavior, which is what I study for ethology, based on their actual behavior, it's very, very rare that a shark's actually going to come close enough to actually bump someone. You might be surprised how often maybe a shark swims past you, but that's not my natural prey item. That's not what I want. I'm not willing to go risk my sensitive sensory systems to go up and investigate that thing that doesn't resemble my natural prey item. Of course, environmental conditions can play into this. I don't advise swimming, surfing and diving in areas where people are fishing or right outside of harbor mouths, or harbor entrances where maybe people are dumping fish, stuff like that. So there's a lot that you can factor in. There's a lot that you can do to have more peaceful interactions. Ocean sharks have no voice. You are their voice. And I know that you have named some sharks individually. And, you know, you've studied their temperament and personalities. So tell me about their temperament and personalities. I love it. I was like, I can tell that you've read the book too. So that's Roxy. Unfortunately, her jaw has been broken. So we actually have a social interface or a lot of the IDs. We have over 200 different sharks of Oahu specifically identified. And you can go to Instagram, you can go to at one ocean sharks. And then we utilize the social interface and the hashtags, hashtags like shark ID, and then the name of the shark. And then over time, we can track morphological changes. And that's the external appearance of the sharks, the scars and the marks. And with tiger sharks, like that, that shark is nicknamed Riley. You can actually see the scoop out of the base of this door is open. This allows us to be a lot more accurate with our population studies. It also gives us a baseline for behavior. So again, with ethylogical studies and social behavior, seeing how those specific individuals will either interact with humans, or one another. And then if they're a more dominant individual, and what is their behavior and their behavioral changes over time in relation to perhaps their size and their age. It's all fascinating information. But really, when it comes to science and conservation, it's kind of like, what's the point of studying them if you're not going to do something to help save them? And what is this information good for if it's not going to be utilized? And that's the program one ocean diving, where it takes that scientific information, and it shares it with the public. So people coming out with us can help help with the research, but more so they can learn from it and actually utilize it to help themselves to reduce an adverse interaction. So a lot of my friends have gone on your free diving tours, one ocean diving. And they all had like a huge positive experience. I mean, they all they were like, this is life changing. And they have such a great huge appreciation of sharks. Can you tell tell me more about your diving tours? Yeah, thank you so much. It's an educational program. And so I think a lot of people maybe just sign up for it. They're like, Oh, this might be exciting. I'm going to go out and, you know, see sharks. But it's actually extremely educational. And I think I love that so much about the program that it's not just a single time experience, where you're going to go have fun, you'll actually take something away with it. And that big takeaway is really what to do and what not to do to avoid an adverse interaction. What is the safest, most respectful way to actually interact or coexist with sharks in the ocean? And what can you do to best respect them and best gain their respect? And so people come out with us and we take them through the biology, physiology, behavior and body language of sharks and how it specifically relates to them. And we go over safety rules. People get to go in the water with myself or another marine biologist as we collect the research data on population studies, the logical studies and the shark ID, the field program. People can actually help out with that as well. I love that people say that it is like changing because I think for a lot of people getting in the ocean with sharks is a big deal for some people, even just getting out into open ocean, which to me feels like a space that is just infinite and free. It allows them to actually enjoy that space, to let go of the fear and the phobia of the unknown, replace it with facts and information and actually empower people. And so if you come out on the program, you learn all this information and then next week you're up west side and you're swimming around with some dolphins and a big shark comes up to you. You'll better know what to do and what not to do. And the sad thing is, is that I think that humans, the natural reaction that most humans have when they see a shark is kind of everything that you wouldn't want to do. And I think that the lack of information might add to the adverse interactions. But also I think that people's willingness again to support conservation measures comes from a lack of a true factual understanding of the sharks. And there was a scientific study that was done on the program that actually proves that it helps to support conservation measures beyond just the program. So people coming out are more willing to support other conservation measures after learning that information, which is that's pretty exciting. And that makes me really happy for the long term impacts of the program being so positive in multiple ways. And a lot of my friends, they said that it's such a calming experience actually where they feel like it's, you know, they weren't really nervous. They were excited. But when they're actually swimming with you with the sharks, they're feeling very calm and it's like a surreal experience that they've never experienced before in their lives. It's hard to tell people that that it can actually be one of the most peaceful, most beautiful experiences of your life, because the sharks, they are so mesmerizing when you're just in this deep open ocean Hawaiian deep blue water. And, you know, all you're seeing are all these different layers and layers and layers of sharks. And it feels very much alive. It's that physical component of a live ocean. And you're immersed, you're fully immersed in the water. And so it does, it adds to that, that surreal, you're floating, you're surrounded by sharks. And they're absolutely beautiful. There really is nothing like a shark. And I felt that feeling since the first day I ever saw one where they are mesmerizing and they have such a different presence. And it's a very commanding presence. And I think for me, it forces me to full awareness. You need to be aware when you're in the presence of a such a capable apex predator. And it's such a different feeling. It's a beautiful feeling like swimming with dolphins and swimming with whales. But it is very unique. And there really is nothing quite like a shark. And I do find the struggle in my work to try to help people to overcome their fear of sharks enough that they will support conservation measures, but replace that with a very healthy, high level of respect for their capabilities as apex predators. We like to use the hashtag sometimes apex predator, not monster. Because I don't want to create a false sense of security with people that, you know, they're not puppies. Thank goodness, because puppies bite a lot of people, you know, they're sharks. And there's just nothing quite like them where you can coexist. They are the most polite predators on the planet. And I mean, you can't just kind of walk up to wild lions and expect that they would give you any space in their space. But with sharks, most of the time that you can, of course, there's exceptions, you know, if they're on the brink of starvation, depending on what species of their territorial, there's a lot of things to look at and be aware for. And that's what I talk about in my book and what we talk about on the program. But they really don't get the credit that they deserve for being such incredible and highly evolved predators that are so important for the ocean. And that's really what it comes down to is that they need more protection. And in current events, in relation to the COVID crisis, we were pushing to get full protection for sharks here in Hawaii, because they're only protected from finning. And the representative, he's super wonderful, he's so supportive of the bill. But he said, unfortunately, because of the current situation, only bills related to COVID are going to be heard in this legislative season, that was pushed back. So we'll continue to push for full protection. Luckily, in our traditional Hawaiian culture, Mano are protected. But with more and more people traveling here from all over the world, you know, you just don't want people going out there and fishing them because they think that they're monsters, you know? So that's also something that we share at One Ocean Diving is that traditional cultural respect. So that visitors and kamaena, like, can understand the significance, not just ecologically, scientifically, but also culturally, because we want to keep that up and treat them like ohana. And Ocean, I saw this statistic that one in just under 4 million people might die from a shark attack. And, you know, all of us, we have just like a so much more likely of a chance to die in a car accident or in any other situation. So the risk in the ocean is very minimal when you really think about it. But I think the media is really taking it and blowing it out of proportion at times. Yeah, it's less than 10 human fatalities globally annually. I always tell people they should be more nervous about driving down the road, especially with the rate that people are texting and driving or, you know, drunk drivers or mosquitoes kill 800,000 more people a year. You look at the statistics around COVID now. I mean, what should you really be afraid of? For someone like myself, that's very much, you know, ocean family, ocean people, and we go swimming and surfing and diving and do all this stuff. Even statistics just related to the ocean, drownings, I believe it's over 300,000 people a year drowned just off of the United States. Jellyfish around the world is between 40 and 100 people tripping over sand castles. Statistically, actually kills more people. Coconut spalling on people's head, something like 70 to 100 people die from that. So even if you just combine the statistics just to the beach or the ocean, what should you really be worried about? And it's not that we should be worried about sharks. It's that we should be worried for them because actually, I want to ask you a question. Okay. How many sharks do you think are killed by humans every year? It's a terrible and sustainable number. So sharks kill 10 people a year. Humans kill how many sharks. And I always ask this when people come on the boat because I like to see kind of just the general understanding. And I mean, you know a lot more but 500,000. So it's 100 million. What? Yeah. And it's your facial expression where it just drops and people realize at that moment where you're like, that is so much more, you know, you know, it's bad, but it's so much more than you would even expect because you know, it's already unsustainable. And so 500,000 is already far too many. It's really sad. So when we made our documentary, Saving Jaws, which is out on Amazon and Hulu. And we were actually filming a lot of the shark fins and the stores that were carrying the shark fins and the markets, it just it crushed my soul because I would just see bags and bags and bags filling stores and these stores would be one after another after another block after block after block just full of shark fins. And you think of how many sharks were killed and they're mostly killed just for their fins. It's just like killing a rhino only for its horn or an elephant only for its tusk. And you're not even utilizing the entire animal. It's, you know, three to five percent of the animal is being killed. And it's mostly just for that status symbol of soup. It's not it's not like a poor developing country where they're eating the whole shark to survive. I would understand that. But it's literally just a status symbol, very much like how elephants are killed only for their tusks. And a lot of people don't realize that that's going on. And a lot of people don't realize, you know, how many sharks are being wiped out and what that's doing to fisheries to coral reefs around the world. Ocean, when you're traveling the world, you know, in terms of plastics and litter and rubbish, what are you seeing? So growing up and going into deity, which is I still feel like one of the most beautiful places. It has been really sad, all these areas that we travel to, to see the coral reefs starting to die and to see the plastic pollution that's that's occurring. It seems like a more frequent interval. So when we went down to film whale sharks, whale sharks are the beautiful giant, they're the largest shark species and the largest fish in the ocean, the beautiful spots and their filter feeders. They're completely harmless to humans. And so we were filming them in Isla Mujeres in Mexico. And, you know, it was such a contrast to this beautiful shark. And there's 200 of them in a small little area. And so everywhere you look, there's whale sharks, but everywhere I was swimming, they're also floating bits of plastic. And a lot of it was plastic bags and a lot of it was plastic water bottle caps. And those type of small items can be very, very easily ingested by whale sharks because they can't discriminate between their their natural food. And also I've noticed that the seabird population has severely declined. I've personally seen that I've seen the scientific reports on it. Hale Eva, where this is my home, Hale, home, Eva, the Eva bird. The Eva bird is our namesake. And I used to see so many Eva birds and they would land on our boats all the time. And I've seen their populations decline and they steal fish from other birds. And I've seen the sheer water population decline and the albatross population decline. And it's because they're scooping up plastics. So anything that people can do to help reduce the use of single use plastics. But if you go to the beach, or you see plastic on the ground, that simple little act. And I like to think of it as like a little workout built in workout and you're saving the environment at the same time. It can really, it can go a long way. And through one ocean conservation, save the sea turtles international, we clean fishing line off of the reef and clean up plastics in the ocean. We cut fishing line off of the sharks at one ocean diving. And we organize reef and beach cleanups are reef and beach cleanups. We're normally running on the second Saturday of every single month and we rotate different locations around the island. And then we have one ocean global program. So our global ambassadors would organize these in their own communities. Due to COVID, we kind of took a little pause on that. So we're going to restart on August 25th. And we're just encouraging people to to join us at the beach, but you know, wear a mask and socially distance away from everybody. And then just to drop their debris on the tarps for collection, we sort through it and we try and use items. Some of our conservation ambassadors are actually taking the small bits of plastic that the fish and the seabirds would normally consume or the whale sharks would consume. And they're actually making art with it. So they're actually reusing that even further. And they're turning into something beautiful. And a lot of their art is actually marine animals, which I think it's just it's a beautiful way of cleaning up the beach, helping to save marine life and creating awareness through art and through that reuse of plastic. Ocean, I have to say it was such a great time having you on the show today. And you know, a lot of people think that Ocean is a perfect name for you. You know, I know Aquaman. I think a perfect name for you is Aquawoman. Thank you, resty. You're very, very kind. I appreciate your kindness. And you're pushing for the community to to live up to their excellence. And it's wonderful that we have a community of wonderful people here that are doing so much good in the community. So thank you for having me and let me be a part of this. Thank you, Ocean. I'll see you soon. See you soon.