 A suspected accused, a suspect accused in the invasion of the residents of Justice or Deli Pointe's fingers at the Attorney General of the Federation, Abubakar Malami, who has denied it. And the world powers take steps to court cabin emission in cities across Africa, Asia and Latin America. The big question is, is Nigeria ready to cut those emissions? This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacor. The Nigeria Police High Command has arrested 14 suspects who raided the home of Supreme Court George Justice Adili. Police spokesman Frank Mba, who paraded the suspect, said seven of them, including two soldiers, are at large. He vowed that all suspects at large would be apprehended. Mba noted that the leader of the illegal operation is a fake chief superintendent of police, one of the suspects, Lorenza Jodo, had said that he was a consultant engaged by the Attorney General of the Federation and Minister of Justice Abubakar Malami. He, and that he is not a police officer, as he had claimed to be. Now, the Attorney General has denied this, describing Jodo's claim as a case of a drowning man scavenging for dying pastner. He challenged Jodo to present a documentary evidence of engagement as a consultant by the Office of the AGF. Well, that's the conversation we're having tonight, and joining us to discuss this is a legal practitioner, Gide O'Logan, and Kwanum Terence, a security expert. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Great. As much as this is a legal issue, of course, this is also a security issue because there seems to be a threat to the life of the justice herself. Let's start with you, Kwanum. This story is no, I'm sure you're no stranger to this story because it has made headlines for weeks. Now, some people have been apprehended, and one is singing like a cannery, including the fact that he has tried to implicate the Attorney General of the Federation. And many of them are making claims that are very hefty. What does this even say in terms of the fact that they were, according to them, they're not necessarily security appraisers, but they were able to access the residents of the justice of the Federation. What does this say about the security of highly placed personnel in this country? Well, I think there's complicity in the whole issue because those people who have had that capacity, had to go and invade the residents of that kind of a VIP if they have not been involved before. And that is one. And then the confidence, the lead suspects, as placed on the Attorney General of the Federation, still needs further investigation to see the level at which they have partnered together. And the office address is on 6th. That is also discovered to belong to a very senior lawyer in this country. It's also another issue. So to me, what was paraded today was just part of what we need to know of exactly what happened at that place. It also goes to show that if it were successful, maybe ask some agencies, lawyer for me, agencies in our country might not have taken responsibility to pick it from there. Because maybe if at the rate or not, justice is through and not successful, nobody would have taken responsibility then because this had happened in this country before as embarrassing as it is. It happened and some certain people come out to take responsibility. But I think the outcry that I came in this particular situation from citizens of this country trying to see political motives into most of this invasion that are taking place on our judiciary was too embarrassing for them to bear again. And that is why this game is being played to the point that we are today. Because I am not, I don't know the dynamics of the judiciary, but to the layman, what we have made for the stand on the street is that the children's service is sick and the mayor is supposed to have been acted and then he needed to be embalmed and humiliated for someone else to have been in that place. It's a claim that I don't have proof to it. And the man lied, I see that it's the failure of that invasion that is bringing about all these demands, next crisis. And then why the interior have got that from the whole experience. I think the AGFC has something to answer in ten years. That's my take on that. This isn't the first time that judges' homes have been sacked. This is not the first time that certain people, especially security agents have attempted to break into the homes of judges, not just in Lagos, but in Rivers and I think maybe Bouchie or so. This has happened before. But then we see that, we noticed very earlier on that the EFCC, the police, even the Attorney General had distanced himself. Many people had distanced themselves from all of this. But then there's that question as to the exactness, the deliberateness, the information that they were armed with when they invaded the home of the justice. It calls to question, of course. I do not know if the home of the justice was, whether she has security, policemen assigned to her, I do not know that. But does that, again, I'm asking this question, does that not call to question our general security in this country? I do not ask because it's one thing to talk about the fact that we're dealing with Banditry in the north-west, we're dealing with Boko Haram in the northeast, and we're also dealing with unknown gunmen in every other part of the country. But when it comes to the sit of the capital, and this seems, she might not be the number one person when it comes to the judiciary, but she is, I think, number two if I'm not mistaken. Does this not call to question everything that our security agencies have been doing? Yeah, generally we have security situations in the country, but for this particular issue, I see a category that is operating around the Asia. And some people that feel that it is only the people they bless or anoints that can have stakes within the judicial systems because of whatever they are doing there. And so those people had the audacity to go and obtain that state if at all it is genuine because that too needs to be investigated for the Chief Magistrate to have done that. And if you could listen to statements that came during the parade, you could hear what the press, the journalists that is amongst them, have said that they told him that they were going to invade the property that was emptied by millions of dollars in it. Obviously there was a need report that gave him the confidence to follow them. And so maybe there was a lot of giving deception around him in some of the press people that followed the oppression. And that's why I think I go completely with the commentary, the NDA is insisting that the president should sit up that must be independent, that the NDA must be involved and other independent minded bodies to be involved rather than the ATF itself sitting in the commentary when he is the prime suspect in this issue. So I completely go with that. This issue is still under investigation. Yes, the Supreme Court is supposed to have armed security personnel around our home. They need to bring a search warrant with a lot of arms including the military and that's right there. Obviously they will be able to have their way very luckily for us this time as a country, it was not successful and then we are beginning to hear all these confessions and obviously some people might have fallen victim of this attack in the past that we didn't know because maybe they have found what they had wanted at that time and so it didn't come to this situation. Then God has exposed them and I think it is for the NBA to be able to help us defend this judiciary because we are completely losing it. Now talking about the judiciary, let me come to you Mr. Logo. Of course you are an officer of the law here and I mean that you obviously are a lawyer. So this obviously affects your constituency directly and what he is saying is that the judiciary needs help and needs saving and that saving can only come if the NBA stands its ground. Yes, the NBA is pushing for an unbiased investigation into this so is the government of the River State, so are members of the National Assembly because this seems to be a very major issue because of how it played out but then I want to ask many people who have commented on this issue have said that maybe based on suspicion that the men who are being paraded may not necessarily be the original people who staged the invasion and these people may just be for the want of a better phrase the fall guys. What are your thoughts? Firstly, let me congratulate Honourable Justice Mary O'Dilly for escaping the long arms of death suspiciously because it could have turned out to be something else and I'll be making reference to some precedents we have in the country. Recall also that the daughter of Chief Passionary Chief the elder state man was assassinated and thereafter a few suspects were arrested. Where's the case today? It has fizzled out. Don't also forget quickly that the former Chief of E.S. Tab Alex Badi was assassinated in this country and then somewhere arrested but the case is under the carpet somewhere as we speak and several cases recall at a time when another set of gunmen were in reverse stage to harass somebody who is a prominent figure in the NDDC project it took Governor Wike to go down there to rescue the woman and this time around we cannot even classify whether these are state actors or non-state actors but there have been confessions of military men being in their midst so do we now have private soldiers in Nigeria who are not in the employment of the government and the a jodo of a man who claims to be consulting for the Atunjera of the Federation how did he go to obtain the alleged warrants from the magistrate? There are several questions to ask here and if you look at the Atunjera of the Federation himself he's been in the eyes of some controversies recently before an 18 million dollars payment to the consultant to be deducted from the refund and let me take us out of Nigeria a bit recall that recently there were allegations of sexual abuse against the governor of New York state in the USA and as we speak now the man has resigned from office another governor is there do we have situations like that in the country? It's been paraded that Malawi is highly influential with the president and like we have brilliantly made reference this evening these are issues touching on security you can imagine what would have happened what an embarrassment it would have been that the second in command in the supreme court of Nigeria got murdered and if she were to be murdered the same way would approach the investigation so here are allegations now rather than giving us rhetorics and then speaking big grammar then explain to Nigerians what your involvement is in all this and don't also forget that many of these actions have gone under the carpet at a time under the eighth national assembly we woke up to the news that some gunmen maxed when to besiege the national assembly and on investigation orders from above who are these people above that are giving these orders and don't let me quickly run away from the supreme court you can recall also the drama that led to the removal of the former chief justice of the supreme court whether or not how expatriate order was obtained on declaration of asset at the end of the day was given a soft landing and if he could be removed from office by virtue of those allegations why was it not prosecuted have we shown to the dustbin the fact that the former acting chairman of EFCC was removed based on allegations and the same attorney general of the federation was very active in that removal so there are several issues but it comes to question also the role of our judiciary officers including the NBA and that's why I started with that question where does the NBA come in here because it's not enough for us to just go on the pages of newspapers or make press conferences talk about the issue we have mentioned so many issues that have been swept under the carpet and you are making reference to the New York governor who stepped down and he's not the first, this is a system that works in those parts of the world where if you are under investigation you step aside but there is no precedence in this country and I'm wondering why the NBA is hoping that that will start today with the same attitude and just jaw-drawing and no actions I'm wondering why do you think that there's going to be some form of change or a different kind of response to this issue correct me if I'm wrong? I must commend the Nigerian Bar Association that has expressed displeasure at what happened recently but when the houses of some judges were invaded by state actors years past what came out of it, don't forget when we talk about criminal allegations it is the government that we prosecute the judiciary is to provide the vehicle for that prosecution and you have the defence and if those who should prosecute refuse to prosecute and who are they, you know them is Executive Amor government and who is the Executive Amor government and it's been paraded that he is highly influential in that region until this government this regime wakes up to the need for good governance and accountability that we may begin to imagine that we have fair play in how and what if this government never is awake to that responsibility because it looks like you have said here and all the things on the writings on the wall they may never come alive to that responsibility so what do we do, wait on the wings and hope that some miracle will happen I mean again I'm wondering why would the government be investigating an issue where they have been alleged to be involved in shouldn't the government step aside on this issue it should be the people versus the government right? We have been put in a box with always been advised wait to the next election as electorates, as citizens if you are not pleased with what is going on but that is a bridge of the fundamental principles of good governance if you read section 15 subsection 5 of the Nigerian Constitution 1999 as amended it says that the government shall abolish corruption and abuse of office but then how can you claim there is an abuse of office if those who are supposed to clear it through are reluctant or are comfortable with the abuse of office let me ask a simple question here the same Atonegera of the federation told the world that they have identified 400 sponsors of Boko Haram to say that they will not name and shame them but will prosecute them in which court are they being prosecuted today whereas in the UAE 4 sponsors of Boko Haram have been prosecuted and convicted what are we talking about it's quite disturbing but like I said when we discuss matters like this we must go to the presiding officer the presiding officer over this present regime is the president of Nigeria and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces President Muhammad Buhari whom I respect so much and going by his body language and the perception we have because perception is a very strong barometer in public relations it's as if he is not as bothered about these embarrassing circumstances that we have in the country so where do you go from there and people agencies look up to the presiding officer if today the national assembly is asking that declare these bandits as terrorists and the president decides not to declare them as terrorists even though their activities reflect the activities of terrorists where do we go my sister where do we go my fellow compatriots these are issues that are plaguing our nation these are serious issues you can imagine like I said when I started this conversation what about Immolable Justice Odili was killed should have gone into the list of victims don't forget that talking about insecurity in this country Shibola Ege the number one law officer of the Federal Republic of Nigeria was assassinated until today there is no head of tail concerning that case so what are we talking about what are we talking about let me go back to Kwanum we should all be worried and section 14 subsection 2 of the Nigerian Constitution 1919 as amended says that the security and the welfare of the people should be the primary purpose of government but now when that mandate is thrown into the air what happens kidnapping killings are you not worried for example every single Nigerian who is watching this show now at the moment and all those who read the papers of course are wondering where we are going so I am going to push my next question to Kwanum Kwanum the description of all that we have been discussing and all the detailed precedences that we have had of armed men going into houses of high placed judges and threatening their lives makes me really wonder and I am going to try to use the best way to ask this question this militarized system of government that we seem to be operating under the guise of a democracy what does this lead us because again he is saying that the hands of the judiciary seems to be tied because again it seems that the people who had the judiciary have questionable character and if the law enforcement agencies also have to do or obey the order the last order which is from the centre and these people also are answerable to Mr President or the presidency then where does that leave us as a country is there ever going to be justice for people who disappear, people who are killed no questions asked the investigations never really happened for example there is a there is actually a magistrate who initially actually issued a controversial warrants this warrants that he said he was misled to misled to by whom where is the investigation where is the investigation into all of these things because there has to be some form of a trail that would lead us to maybe the kind of change that we are hoping for so in terms of this and the security that we are facing now where are we going this is an issue of the the judiciary they are having people of questionable character I am not taking time to look at the justices that they are most have been invaded they are all Christians and it is part of in the parties acts of this government they are trying to clamp on people who are not religion why do you say so why do you think it is a religious attempt people look at all the judges that they are most have been invaded they are Christians and they are operating with their Muslim counterpart so is it that once they are Muslim and you are a judge in this country then you become a saint those are the questions and they are just clamping on them to make sure that they have the voice and they will have their way even the two judges to me they are expecting me and just like the barista is saying the level of manner and they had to push to be able to bring him in and all of that it took the intervention of the members of the judiciary to protest on the president of the customary court of appeal to be sworn in we are seeing these things and we know where they are headed where is it headed that's the question because the average Nigerian is wondering if this is where we are right now where will we be in a few more years this government is pursuing because to me every judicial officer comes from one section of our society which is the Christian community and I keep wondering why it is easy to be a saint within the judicial system if you are a Muslim and so it's strange to me that I already know that it is even very difficult for this government to be able to address issues of insecurity that has to do within the court where they are Muslims it is easy for them to handle issues of security within the south and so when you put all these things together it still boils down to one thing that it's in the protein that is being played out in this country and it's quite unfortunate that we found ourselves in a situation where the governor will come out to tell you that it's in 2017 he has been begging the federal government to declare ban these hysteria with the governor of Sokutu State Casino Zamfara following our speakers but it makes no sense to the government that has to do that and it's just for you to declare these people as terrorists from the Christian community to be able to come in and assist you and bring technology to be able to fool these characters out but when it goes to the south it is easy for them to go to foreign lands to arrest people who are not eternal and go to places like the Republic to be able to nap the lives of the people down so when you put all these things together it doesn't matter that it's played out and it's quite unfortunate that we found ourselves in this mess Finally Mr. Logo quickly if this issue is pursued with all of the vigor and the uprightness the unbiasedness that it needs will this one way or the other pose a problem for all those concerned even those who have been fingered even those who have denied the police investigation there are three qualifications or requirements in the community justice value chain need a thorough investigation you need a diligent prosecution and you need a committed judiciary but in the absence of prosecution what is the rule of the committed judiciary and that's why we should be worried that those who should be trusted those who should be trusted to implement justice are themselves portraying not being reliable to carry out that assignment I said earlier if you're not satisfied with that then you wait to vote again are we going to continue in this cycle there are several instances for example let me paraphrase what the founding father the modern single that they decided to do the right thing and we continue to do the right thing and if you look at where our country is now in the quality of nations we cannot claim to even be better than we were in 1960 when we get political independence and I think those who are front thinking developmental conscious in their approach to issues must be worried about this and it's just a simple thing we go to what we have in section 17 of the Nigerian constitution in 1999 that says that the social platform for our coexistence will be the issue of justice equity and freedom and except we have where everyone is respected as citizens where we have the rule of law where everyone is subject to the loss of the land we may not make the desired progress but I think all these things are possibilities but I take it back again to the table of the presidency my dear presidents when you leave office what will your regime be remembered for and on that note I want to say co-place Nigeria Alright well GDLW is a legal practitioner Kwanum Terence is a security expert thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation Thank you alright well thank you all for staying with us and when we return let's not forget that COP26 is winding down but of course war powers are taking steps to cut carbon emissions across cities in Africa Asia and Latin America what will be our step here in Nigeria when we return we'll talk more about it