 I mean a lot of people have their dogs live outside that's that's not when I was growing up We we had a few dogs, but the dog that we had the longest Rosie. She had a dog house She lived outside. She came inside sometimes, but I mean at night. She didn't stay indoors. Yeah She has a dog that doesn't want to come inside There's a dog down the street who's got a big yard, you know But it's like chain link so you can see in the yard and it's like a Akita or a real pretty dog and has a dog house always in there Just kind of chillin and I'm always in the morning sometimes when it's kind of chilly I'm like poor dog. Yeah, I'm like this is like a winter Alaska dog. Yeah Fine, it's not a Russian assassin. I don't know. I haven't asked it Though it doesn't seem to mine My sister's blue healer stays outside year-round even in the winter She's got a little Kennel for him on the front porch near the house So it's out of the wind and it's all you know full of like comfy mats and stuff so he can keep warm He doesn't not want to come in she made him come in during a tornado warning one time and he was not I mean the tornado warning was also, you know sirens are going off and it's windy And so he was he was freaking out about that too, but he just not want to be inside their house He's like no not for me. Thanks. I'll stay outside I'm an independent dog. Yeah Jack the dog. That's his name Jack Jack is a great pet. It would have been funnier if you said we had a cat named Jack the dog Well now I have to do that I Like it when pets have I mean both of my pets have human names What it's in Lucy, you know, and then there were Sam it's you know, it's their human names But some there are certain human names that are funny when they're pet names For example, I knew a guy who had a dog named Danny Mm-hmm, and it's such a dude name that like it was just it was just a funny name It was a brand but you just don't hear you don't you don't need a lot of dogs named Danny Marty Marty Or Marty right Ray Ray because she's named after the Star Wars character gets a lot of confusion Even people who know Star Wars is just not thinking about it. They like wait she cuz they're thinking are in my of course I'm ready. Um, I don't know what kind of dog. It was a mud of some kind real cute Guy and his dog. We were walking around the lake at the same time And you know the dogs are sniffing and I was a what's your dog's name and he said Jennifer I Honestly laughed I was like, sorry. No, that's it's perfectly fine. I've just never met a It was a dog before I'm just wondering like would Corky fall into an animal name He's more of an animal name than a person name. I would think Corky feels like an animal name It's a it's a nickname. I would think more than There was Corky on Murphy Brown, right? I have a name set up to start the show Oh, no, it's too bad If if one of you would like to read line three today you get to read that name Let's see I'm happy to Scott unless you would like to either way. I'm so easy. It's it's painful Well, let's let's not hurt Scott All right, here we go in three two John Richardson has supported independent tech news directly for five years be like Joan become a DTNS member at patreon.com slash DTNS This is the daily tech news for Wednesday March 13th 2019 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feline I'm Sarah Lane Beautiful now snowy again Salt Lake City. I'm Scott Johnson and from a dry and mildly sunny LA County area I'm the show's producer Roger. So yesterday we fixed all the problems with the World Wide Web Thanks to a little inspiration from Tim Berners-Lee and today We will fix all the problems with privacy and sharing your images for IBM No, we are we're gonna talk a little bit about IBM get some heat for What I think is just them using the Creative Commons license, but there's more to it than that Still, let's start with a few tech things you should know YouTube music YouTube music premium and YouTube premium have all launched in India Google Play music and Google Play movies Will also continue to operate in the country YouTube music is free and ad supported YouTube music premium will lose the ads and charge 99 rupees per month And the crowded music market there in India includes recently launched Spotify as well alongside market leaders like Gaina and Geo 7 among Amazon along with Amazon and Apple's Nice at the inside Xbox event Tuesday Microsoft demonstrated its project xCloud game streaming service for the first time long rumored lots of conversation Finally talked about it Microsoft showed for its a horizon for Streaming from an Azure data center to an Android device using the Xbox controller connected by Bluetooth Not as complicated as it sounds project XCloud will enter public trials sometimes later this year or sometime later this year Microsoft also officially released its wireless display app to stream PC games to the Xbox one and use the Xbox controller to play them Using Mira cast Google is expected to announce a new game streaming service at the game developers conference next week Everybody's getting into the pool. All right, so China morning post reports that the Fushan subway station in Shenzhen, China is demonstrating 5g technology Including the ability to use facial recognition to pay your fare Riders scan their face at a tablet size screen mounted at the entrance gate pronounced just a test although it will work if you register Your your face to your account. It'll it'll charge you Shenzhen metro However did not announce any plans for a wider rollout doesn't mean they won't but they didn't announce anything yet Don't forget first of all in China. Everybody uses mobile payments So this is like hey instead of having to use your phone at the train you could use your face it's even easier and a KFC in China introduced smile to pay at its Hongzhou restaurant back in January 2017 So even using facial recognition to pay is not that new in China All right, let's talk a little bit more about Some moves Google's making that might shed some light on their future plans Scott Well business insiders reporting that Google has moved a few dozen employees out of its laptop and tablet teams Several projects have supposedly been canceled Though the employees have been asked to find temporary new roles in the company Meaning Google Google may find sorry may be seeking more flexibility in their hardware roadmap Yeah, I whenever Google does this and they kind of go a little bit quiet on a Project internally or or a category of the market usually says one of two things to me either that is not Making the profit people had hoped in general or somebody else is dominating it and they would rather spend their time elsewhere So who knows with this? I gotta say it must be great to work at Google because usually this is something where it's like Okay, we're shuttering your department and you are getting severance and you no longer work here and Google's like Why don't you just find a temporary new role somewhere else in this company? I I have it on good authority that that that planet Google is called a bungee Like like a bungee cord where you just kind of you kind of jump to another role for a while And it does help them Not lay people off Sometimes people bungee and then land on the ground and they don't end up keeping a role and they leave the company But but it does allow people to try to find another role So I think Google is using that here to give themselves some flexibility to say Maybe they need to pair down their laptop and tablet efforts and focus on a couple And so they're like, well, we don't really need all you guys because you were working on 12 different products And we've picked the two we want to focus on but hang out for a while because we'll probably have more coming down the line It seems like a pretty smart way to do it to me Google has also expanded its list of available default search engines in the chromium 73 stable release while Google's own search still the the one that you get at install The alternatives have expanded to include privacy focused search engines like duck duck go in more than 60 markets worldwide Duck duck go was not previously an option in chromes defaults Q want you want was a quants was added as an option in finance but not in I'm sorry in France But not in Germany or in France France, which is also a financial center of sorts It's a matter of us today Yeah, so so before there's some other Chrome 73 features rolling out as well, but I love this Move by Google and I think it's based on public and governmental pressure that they're like, you know what? We should really clean this up and make sure at least the top four search engines in every market besides ourselves Are available as a default before someone forces us to do so Yeah, my feeling is the same and it's interesting because part of me wants to go. Uh, this is a very Magnanimous thing for Google to do and any time a company does this like Apple with their privacy Commitments and other companies do similar things to have Google do this. I go. Ah, good job guys You're thinking of us. You're taking care of us and you're giving us more options You're not trying to force us down your narrow path But then another part of me swings in and goes Well, yeah, but also they're kind of sandbagging here It's a little bit of a way for them and not not in a bad way Maybe this shows that that pressure can be good But this is them saying yeah, we get in some trouble sometimes even even when we don't intend to be why don't we get out in front of this and Be open and uh opportunistic as possible so that when the time comes for somebody to scrutinize us for some reason or another This isn't just added onto the pile of complaints. So It's fine with me either way. I just wish it was pure Nice move customer facing move by google and not the rest The other part of my brain that says we're just doing this so you can preemptively get out of trouble Although tom and roger you both use duck duck go. So this is something that you know, it's a nice feature for you So yeah, or something that you're already using I said duck duck go is my default search engine on mobile On on the safari browser on ios to be specific Uh as a way to just kind of vary it up so that all of my activity isn't being captured I still use google on the desktop and honestly I didn't ever look to see if duck duck go was available as a default which it wasn't until now But I wasn't really going to change it on the desktop Nice to know that it's there though, and I'll be honest using it on mobile It Never Causes a problem. I never go. Well, I guess I have to go to google to find this thing. I can always find what I'm looking for Yeah, I like it just for I don't know. I just like alternatives even if there are not alternatives. I don't use all the time I like that the that the market keeps having weird stuff like this happen Like I would have never suspected two three years ago if you said, hey, what if a privacy focused Search engine popped in out of nowhere. Do you think you'd get any traction? I probably said no It just seemed like it was too too saturated too much control by you know one big company and then a handful of others and I think it's great that duck duck is doing what it's doing I just have never used it until the last week or so I'm new I I said it to I said it to my default in the chrome for os 10 like you actually physically have to Add right hard it hard, but I've been using it because I just wanted to see because I mean google's default and everything I wanted to try a different search engine for the most 90 90 percent of the time it's fine It's the 10 percent that I actually switch over to google if I need to get more detail on a new story or something Before we wrap this up sarah tell us some of the other things that are coming to chrome 73 Yeah, chrome 73 is rolling out today for mac windows and linux with a slew of new features Including some people will be excited about dark mode. That's at least for mac os Although it's supposedly coming to windows soon plus better syncing and account sign-in features New developer support for hardware media keys and auto picture in picture Spotify has filed a complaint against apple with the european commission over app store rules Spotify claims that the apple app store limits choice and stifles innovation They say it's an abuse of market dominance and they want the european union to look into it The complaints center around the fact that apple requires app makers to collect payments through apple You can't provide an alternative source to collect the payments And of course the fact that apple takes 30 cut out of subscriptions At least in the first year and apple Doesn't take the cut of other purchases spotify particularly points to ride sharing services like uber or they're like Apple doesn't take a cut of the fares. Why are they taking a cut of our subscription for music? Spotify also wants apples own apps like apple music to have to abide by all the same rules as everyone else in the store And they want apple to stop controlling communications with users Now as a side note spotify has its own problems. Uh gimlet media company the podcasting company it acquired last month Has its employees, uh the podcasting part of the organization unionizing with the writer's guild of america So it's not like spotify is is not got its own negotiations with people upset with the way it does business But let's focus on this apple claim because this is huge Everyone has been wondering when apple would be taken to task for its app store policies And elizabeth warren didn't put this in her medium post last week, but she told the verge Yes, apple's app store policies definitely fall under what i want to investigate if i'm president So spotify is is bringing this to europe and europe is as we know, uh very friendly to these sorts of investigations Go ahead. I was just going to say I actually think spotify has a point here Um up to up till now. I've not been too bothered by as a consumer anyway bothered by the The profit split at apple it mirrors a lot of other profit splits out there But they're also seeing their own disruption Steam being one the epic store coming in with a better cut that sort of thing Um, and so it does seem to be coming up more and more like okay Well at this point when you have this kind of dominance, maybe there's something something has to shift around But the spotify complaint specifically just sounds Legit to me like there's there's some inconsistencies here If you're going to have a streaming music service, you're already dealing with the lowest margins out there when it comes to entertainment licensing And you have to come to this platform and cough up your subscription 30 for anyone who subscribes through the app The alternatives to go full amazon, but not everybody can do that And make everybody sub and pull things outside of the os And the fact that they've got their own competing music service in there where they don't have to pay themselves 70 cut and keep 30 like that's ridiculous to even talk about so I don't know. I I don't know what the answer is or I don't know how egregious it is at this point It just does start it's starting to feel a little frisky And I think apple's probably gonna have to respond in some in some major way I I don't know that this meets anti competitive Behavior anti competitive behavior is i'm abusing my market dominance to stop others from doing the same thing With android the dominant operating system and with uh android available to spotify to go be on I'm not sure you can make the argument that well apple is preventing Things from happening in the marketplace. They're certainly preventing things from happening on ios But that doesn't mean they're preventing things from happening in the marketplace There's plenty of innovation in the marketplace android is the dominant Operating system in the marketplace. So, you know the remedy for this should be uh, if people don't like it They don't have to develop for apple and they don't have to buy apple products And and that is a choice that most people make Maybe not so much on the developer side, but certainly on the consumer side most people don't choose ios so As as much as I agree with you in principle that I wish apple would treat subscription revenue in particular Uh as just a pastor rather than trying to take a cut of it because I do feel that that's you know Them sort of pushing their own interests. I don't know that it falls Under the need for a legal remedy. Yeah, but it's also If they're going to get any traction it's to do it with the eu And that's what they're doing. We'll see if that does anything, but um I always notice that these things always come up as complaints in the eu Uh and not here to start with and it's usually because the eu takes the same reason the patent Cases used to get filed in the eastern district of texas. I think that's going to stop now with new patent rules But you know, you you could always get a friendly ear there. Yeah Also an interesting comparison to make to uber, which is I mean Spotify and uber Sure, the people get paid on both sides, you know by a company, but uh, very apples and oranges You can even subscribe to lift an uber you can you can pay a monthly fee Same thing with postmates where you can pay a monthly fee, but apple doesn't take a cut of those. It's interesting Well, let's talk about twitter everyone loves twitter. I don't know. Maybe not Update to the twitter apple let you swipe left from the twitter timeline to access The camera functions. It gives you the immediate option to take a photo or loop up to two minutes of video It's interesting. They're looping that high now. It used to be only looping at six seconds or under A mini swipe takes you to the options to stream video or audio You can overlay a location hashtag and your usual tweet message and post immediately photos Also are larger in the twitter feed And appear before the text Um, a lot of changes and tweaks and stuff happening Over at twitter lately including some rumored stuff that some people are upset about but what do we think about these changes? Some people are always upset, so I guess that's not new Many people are upset. No, there's a twitter has been rolling out a lot of test features We talked about briefly yesterday that twt tr app for trying out features twitter's trying to be better about rolling out features faster I love this This is twitter saying we know photos are great on the internet Everybody loves seeing photos. We know we haven't been doing photos as well We're going to make it easier for you to take a photo or make a video or even stream live It's not even going to have the periscope branding on it. Even though we'll use periscopes infrastructure We're going to make it easy and we're going to make it look better in the timeline So then when you do post your photos and videos, uh, they they look cooler But we're not going to try to rip off spotify or i'm sorry snapchat or instagram stories Yeah, I want to dig deeper into this video or audio distinction Um, if they're if they really want to push that or not as a thing where streaming? Yeah, yeah, they've been trying to push streaming audio through periscope for a long time And I I kind of I mean I did a periscope the most recent periscope I did was a talk I gave at a school at a college talking about making content around video games And I really wanted people to see it But I couldn't hold my camera up like some goofball trying to do periscope So I just kind of parked it down next to my chair and had a look at the floor the whole time Uh, that would have been a nice time for just an audio option. So I actually really like that and I hope they You know, I hope that makes a bigger splash Also, I know it's a small thing and twitter's photos have gotten larger and larger over time I mean if you remember if you've been in twitter back in the day, you know, it used to just be a link And then it was a sort of a small photo in in the feed and now they seem pretty big to me now already But I guess they're getting bigger But to have that before whatever text is being tweeted along with the photo that sounds like who cares But it actually does sort of matter because you're you're the photo is now front and center It's what's grabbing you and then you go well, it's the caption which is very instagram-like Totally Uh, and just just very normal We're normally we're used to seeing a photo and then a caption below it Not a tweet and then a photo under it or not even a full photo, but like a part of a photo under How about some better compression? I just want to throw that out before we pass through this some better compression twitter It all looks like crap and garbage freaking better photo compression yeah Bloomberg reports that apple we're going back to apple now is still trying to finalize deals with movie and tv Companies to become part of its video streaming service expected to be announced on march 25th apple is supposedly talking with atnt cbs and lionsgate about adding services like hbo showtime And start to the service alongside apples owns or own originals the deals reportedly need to be reached by this friday Time is of the essence and while most are expected to be signed They still need to agree on things like marketing and promotion and user experience Netflix and hulu both not expected to be available through the new service But both are still available on the ios and tv os apps. Yeah, so we'll be talking about this a lot especially after march 25th, but uh This bloomberg report and mark german is one of the authors on this So I feel like it's pretty reliable makes me think that we have been thinking about the apple streaming service wrong That we've been thinking apple is going to have a bunch of originals in a netflix style service And it is not this makes me think what apple is going to do is push the simplification Hey, everybody you complain about the fact that you have too many services to keep track of Too many bills to subscribe to with all these various amounts. What if we made it simple? You you you could have somebody who's tracking what your subscriptions are Suggestings ones you might want to add Suggesting when it's time to cancel one because you're not using it and we'll make it all available through ios and tv os As well as a perk having some originals that you can't get anywhere else because we're the ones making it Uh, that feels like the push here. It's not going to be an apple streaming service with apple content It's going to be an apple consolidation service for your streaming at for your streaming content That apple will add some things to as a bonus for using their service I mean, I don't have a ton to add to this except to say when you mentioned it on our morning show this morning in brief It uh was the first time I'd heard this Talked about in this way and I think you're absolutely right. Otherwise. This is just another Sort of hey, we got the thing too and it took us forever But it's because it's better But really is it apple and why is it more expensive like all the dumb apple stuff that falls around it? Is it just a quick zero to 60 second? Uh attempt to catch up with netflix and everybody else Or is it something more than that? And I think you may have In my mind, you've dug up what what more it is. We'll find it on the 25th, but I really really like your theory Thank you. I'm glad you do. Uh, and actually if you want to hear me imitate what I think apple mind announced in apple Version of language. Uh, check out the morning stream because that's what I did It's really good. Yeah, there's something else Hey folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com. All right. Let's talk about mbc news reporting that ibm Was using and is using and has used images from flicker In order to train an ai on facial recognition Now this is being reported by mbc news as a privacy violation So let's talk about what's actually happening the photos that ibm are using were listed Under a creative commons license on flicker. Uh, this is something that used to be kind of front and center Now it's not the default you default to copyright protection now on flicker But I think for a while the default was creative commons I'm not sure could be wrong about that But a lot of people did it So a lot of people made their photos available on flicker under a creative commons license and ibm said, oh, okay This grants us wide rights to use the photos without having to ask specific permission So we will do that now ibm said it complied with privacy principles anyway And that the data set compiled data on measurements between facial features then discarded the images The actual images themselves are not stored nor are they part of the algorithm. In other words, they pull up the image They make a bunch of measurements like how far is the nose from the eyes and and and it's much more complex than that They store those measurements to help train the machine learning and then discard the image ibm also said individuals could opt out of the data set They're like even so even though we're not actually storing your image If you don't want us to use it If you want to withdraw that permission that you put on your creative commons license You can do that question is how do you figure out if you're in the data set? Well, mbc news has developed a tool to make it easy to check if your image was used Now folk I'll let scott and and sarah describe their reactions to this But I have a very specific reaction that I think Is very telling about how things have changed on the internet over the past 10 years Sarah you go first. I want to go. All right. Well, so as a flicker user And I I am currently a flicker user Paying for pro still because I have a lot of photos on there, but back in the day I was I was a very avid flicker uploader user I was I was I was in I was in the wheelhouse of flicker and I had Not all of them. Um, there were certain albums that that weren't but most of my photos were creative commons Because I kind of liked the idea of people being able to to to have a little bit more ability to to use them creatively and It was it was sort of the it was it was the way the community fell at the time again This is like 2007 2008 at its heyday So and I remember getting into kind of an argument with a photographer friend of mine Who was like, you know, you're screwing it up for the rest of us, you know We're trying to make money on this stuff You know, you just kind of letting people use your photos and those were the conversations We were having about creative comments at the time Now when you think about what IBM is doing It doesn't really bother me because The photos themselves are not being used in a way that I feel violently. It's my personal privacy However, I would be a little weirded out to know Uh that my photos specifically were being used and I it doesn't appear that they are because I tried this tool earlier today But if they were I would want to know that beforehand Rather than someone saying well, if you want to know if you're part of this experiment with AI Check out this tool. That's that's really my only gripe with this my take is I don't actually care if they use my photos at all. I don't find it All that big a deal they're up publicly anyway if these were non creative commons licensed things. Well, that's a different thing, but I think IBM is adherent to the creative commons As it currently is uh stands And I think that this is yet just what this is for me is yet another example of Not legislation but rules and guidelines that were made during a time where nobody knew we'd be Scouring millions of photos and using it for machine learning using it to understand this or that or build whatever Like we didn't know that all we knew was I took a thing. Maybe I'm a photographer Maybe an artist I put it up online and I said hey I would like this to be able to be used by other people and share it around But only under these restrictions therefore creative commons is great because it gives both them a chance to use it And create attribution and it gives me the exposure I want But also the protection I want for my own work and what's happened is we're now in a new place It's different now What you can do with these things is so much different than any of us thought of so I think it's probably just time to go reevaluate what creative commons is and kind of make adjustments as necessary Make it a more fluid set of guidelines that are agreed upon But like copyright law like a million other things that are sort of like this Um, they don't stick very long stuff changes and we have to approach it that way So that's my take off or take away is that this just needs to be talked about again I disagree with both of you. All right, great. Uh and more with scum than sarah Creative commons was exactly for this use and there are multiple versions of it that you can choose the rights Uh that you want to attach to your image And if this story comes out in 2008 NBC news is talking about how this crazy open license has a Unleashed innovation allowing IBM to create an artificial intelligence that can create facial recognition If we didn't have creative commons IBM would have had to go and get permission to use all these photos But because of the creative commons license, we've now unleashed innovation and creativity because that was the spirit in 2008 and 2009 The only thing that has changed is our attitude towards this So I don't think creative commons needs new licenses. They have a very Bullet-tested licensing system What has to happen is people need to realize that their decisions of 10 years ago still have impacts today Because I think when flicker was sort of encouraging you to do creative comments people didn't think Oh, I it could be used for anything. They thought oh, I'm sharing with other people like me Even though the creative commons license specifically Is created to do exactly that and there are versions of the license that will restrict what you can do with the images While still being able to share them There are things like calling for attribution or saying well, you can use mine But you can't share it with anybody else. You can only use it for your own purposes. I I think that Sarah's uh objection is is the natural one of like well, I wanted to share it with other people back then But I didn't realize it could be used for this I I think that's just a change in our attitudes though It's always been what the creative commons license was for was to say hey, let someone else use your Your image so that they can just go and do something unexpected with it and learn from it Well, we've also had a decade plus of of of you know warnings and and and potentially frightening stories about you know house how how How smart ai is getting and how humans need to be more and more wary of of of You know what where the robots going with all of this? So I think I think you make a really good point that back in the day if this would have been Explained to the public probably a lot more people would have been like wow pretty cool Because we've made such strides in the last 10 years. Yeah in in this uh In this arena and and and some of them trouble people Yeah, I would I would actually say just to I know we're almost out of time here But I just wanted to say this I actually agree with everything. Tom is saying 100 across the board No, you're supposed to argue with him. I went through but my only point is and I should have clarified this If people want this to change then they're gonna have to change it in other words if people are scared about this now You could change it So so what needs a flicker is at fault here, right flicker If anybody's at fault it's flicker for encouraging people to use creative commons without really educating them What the impact might be and flicker should make it really easy for you to mass You know unselect all your stuff and ibm is doing the right thing and saying hey, you don't want to be part of this database That's fine. Uh, but unfortunately, I I think it's the wrong attitude I think it shows that we are we're headed into the cycle of not sharing We're headed in the cycle of of building up walls and you can see that because the successful companies are the ones That have big walled gardens. We're just in that period of time, which is different than it was 10 years ago Yeah, I agree with that as well Thanks to everybody who participates in our sub reddit We hope you're still with us in 10 years submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show reddit.com You guys on facebook you too stay put facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news If facebook's still here at 10 years A lot of things can happen in 10 years. All right Let's talk out the mail back because email be here in 10 years. I could tell you that That's for sure. It is the cockroach of tech James had thoughts on tom's views around cambridge analytica and our overall discussion yesterday on tim burners lee and where the web is today James says I could not agree with tom more. In fact, I'd argue that facebook's mistake was much more mundane and commonplace one bad governance But the suggestion and I believe james is referring to my My suggestion on the show that the problem can be solved by improving search results at all bothers me It sides too closely to limiting the internet's unbound nature because it essentially argues that the problem here is Curatorship but user choice has long been the driving force of the online world Maybe less not more is the answer worked for wikipedia, didn't it? Hmm I'm not sure james that I said that the the answer is You know, let's let's figure out google search results but I did use that as an example of something that is being gamed and something that uh, create sort of You know a disenfranchised view of of of how the the internet is is and you know The smart people and the scammers can can can figure things out to to confuse and annoy the rest of us Yeah, just one just one one thing not a silver bullet to solve everything. Exactly. But thanks for the email james Thanks to everybody who emails us every day and thanks to scott johnson for being our co-host on this wonderful wednesday scott What's new with you? Well on this wonderful wednesday, uh, not a lot new but there is some stuff cooking So if you want to follow what I do get any of my shows Check out my my daily thoughts Check me out on twitter at scott johnson and my website is frog pants.com. So go there and check it out Tell me what you think we love getting new members And if you're not already a member of dTNS, uh, there are lots of cool perks for it For instance at the co-executive producer level right now you get a bonus show every month where sarah myself roger and often scott I think scott's going to join us this month look back at the dTNS lineups from five years ago And and look at all the interesting stories some of which seem like they could have come out of today Some of which are wildly different. It's it's a lot of fun And that just comes into your custom ad free rss feed that is created for every patron who joins us at patreon.com So go check it out patreon.com slash dTNS our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com Write us early and write us off on we're also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc Find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live back with justin robber young tomorrow talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Simon club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Oh finance fries my favorite finance fries There's two things going on here first. I need glasses Seconds my macbook backlight has failed. So i'm kind of right, of course It's as if i'm reading at dusk. No, is it like a It's like a bed. It's not quite like a kindle then though, right? Like it's a it's a It's not like good to eat paper. It's like trying to read with the brightness at 30 percent. Oh, that sucks I know so and trust me. I'm as mortified as possible the country of finance We we I was like I was like actually germany's really more of the financial capital I guess I guess Even Tom was like France Sarah I couldn't help it. I'm sorry And the thing is like I know I know what it is But you know, sometimes you get rolling and you're just I just saw finance And it was capitalized weirdly. All right, all right, we'll get your screen. It'll happen I'm actually I'm actually going in tomorrow. So Spotify calling the apple bad Creative commons created for what? I'll gladly sue you Tuesday for creative commons today. That's actually pretty good Creative commons sense That's even better. Yeah creative commons sense for ai is that's that's my favorite. I I could use it even without the ai yeah Yeah common sense I'm terribly explaining my point of view on that thing. It's just about the loud Like everything you said is spot-on I just you know what my thing boils down to it's If people want to change something they should change it And that's like the laziest and that was where I was going is like you already have control over this You didn't have to make your images available, but you did And I think just a lot of people didn't really think about it that way And sarah you you you basically gave that point of view of like hey I was cool sharing it with other people in 2008. I never really thought IBM would come along and use it But that is what that license was meant for. Yeah, the biggest the biggest problem here is NBC news I'll just say that like they're they're the ones that are taking this to this. Oh Yes, and they're not alone It's uh, yeah I'm not going to give NBC news a pass on that but also if it wasn't them it'd be somebody else. So yeah That is the time we live in well, you know, it's also one of those things where In some ways they are a reflection of the broader population and that no, they're not they're not as you know Familiar with Creative Commons license. They don't necessarily understand the implications of what it does I don't I don't buy that if you're a journalist you get you get familiar with it You dig in and learn about it before you make the make the story That's your responsibility I will agree with the Roger that they that seems like they're not taking that very seriously sometimes but I just don't think they have the history I think that's where Roger where you're right is they they don't have the perspective of I was around covering this You know when when Creative Commons was celebrated Uh, and and so I'm you know, I I don't realize that that's a change in attitude And I think I think that's an important part of this story is This is this is a sad This is a sad thing that people are mad about this because I really do think that if we didn't have as Sarah pointed out 10 years of AI scaremongering stories if we didn't have you know, the last couple years of Outrage culture, especially at privacy violations and actual real bad privacy violations and hacks Then I don't think this would work. Uh, the story would be you know, hey, check this out The idea of sharing images freely instead of copyright protecting everything by default has allowed for this great innovation Because there is no implication to what IBM is doing that is bad for you They're storing measurements that allow their algorithm to recognize new people They're not storing your images And I know I hit that point in the in the show, but that really needs repeating I think which is they aren't keeping pictures of you or the people you took pictures of They're using the data and then discarding the images And saying oh now we've taught this AI how to recognize people It's not a big bank of your photos sitting there Uh that someone could go in and look at Well Flicker is a big bank of your photos sitting there that someone could go in and look at Yeah, I was I was trying to become outraged earlier like can I get outraged about this like You know, is there an angle where it's like wait a second. Yeah, I I am kind of and the thing is it's like No, I I I'm not these are photos that people can look at on flicker So They're atoning for the sins of the perceived Uh privacy violations or even real ones. Yeah, they're voting for facebook having a breach and not telling anyone They're atoning for like it's almost like IBM they're giants So you have to hate them already and now they're doing a thing with your photos. Oh my gosh What can this mean like we're just we put ourselves in this weird corner now And it's bad Yeah, it's it reminds me of the old uh, the old arguments, uh, the news companies make about saying we we don't want Google indexing us in their search engine without permission and it's real easy to put a line in your robots dot txt file That says you can't index me and google respects that like you already have the power to stop them That's not really what you're mad about you're mad about the fact that google is not paying you Uh, and that's what that argument was really about here. It's the same thing you you have The ability to stop an IBM from using your picture Don't use a creative commons license or use a more restrictive one that wouldn't have allowed that Uh, it is the control was in your hands. People just didn't realize it, right? And I think that's that's where some of this, uh, does fall on flicker For not properly instructing people. Hey when you use a creative commons like you should know that means anybody That's either you're saying anybody can use your photo Are you you're super cool with that? But that would have sounded ridiculous in 2008 because in 2008 the idea was everything is protected Nobody can use my thing. How do I let other people use my thing? Oh creative commons license. That's great. That's awesome Yeah, and I don't want a poo poo on anybody who has the feeling like I don't know I don't know if I don't want people in 2019 to take my photos and make it part of their Uh, testing for AI or machine learning. I understand. I don't even I still don't really care And I don't either but I'm saying I'm all for it. I'm contributing to the advancement of science. I'm borderline flattered in fact Right. So what I'm saying is those people have they have the control. They just don't know it Like they're you're the ones if you put them out there and creative commons, you put them out there That was you. Yeah. So go take them down and take it off if that change the licenses Yeah, and flicker should make it easy for people to change the licenses now that this attitude has changed Right. That is that is something that that would be useful um You've noticed that you don't have a creative commons license attribution on instagram or facebook, right? Because They came along and developed these things after that attitude was already starting to change. So Um, it's sad to me. You should you should want this your eyes should be wide open But you should want to like hey, that's what this is about is is not over protecting things and allowing innovation to spring from them But but we're not in that headspace these days and also I think another part of it is something I talk about a lot Which is the fact that we've gone from the internet is a thing that a few geeks use Yeah, that was the 90s to the internet is a thing that a few of us enthusiasts use that was the 2000s to the internet is a thing Everybody uses right and the enthusiasts were like, oh, yeah creative commons. I get that. I know how it works facebook I know the risks. I know to watch out for and now that everybody uses it everybody is like, I didn't know those risks I don't know what creative commons is and then make any sense to me. Why would you do that? Right? They haven't learned those lessons. They haven't they haven't been that involved in it I'll heartily agree on that It's just a tool now The internet isn't special anymore. The internet's a tool The internet is a total tool Definitely people who use the internet that fit that description. Oh bunch of tool It's fun. Isn't it funny that that became a derogatory thing because you're like tools. That's how you build stuff Yeah, but then why is a tool kind of like a clown because you're a tool in someone else's hand to do their work You're not your own man. You're Okay, I see. So you're it's it's like saying a sheep almost. Yeah, you're just basically someone else's You're a pun If you're part of if you're on the if you're in the tool if you're part of the band tool Like 90s music, you're all right Then you should think about sobriety Sure all their videos were where people covered in ash and uh, they were always bald and naked. That's all I know about tool I uh, I that was the style of the time. Yeah, I I liked tool As was the style of the time I probably wasn't like I wasn't a big enough tool fan to go to a concert Like that probably would have been like a little too moshy for a little Little fan to own any of their music or listen to it, right? Oh I definitely did All my music came with a parental advisory. Yeah Isn't it funny to listen to some of that music with the parental advisory from the 90s and be like, oh, isn't that cute? I guess maybe they use the f word once For sticker I do remember I do remember though and this was I don't know. I was I mean I was I was not in high school yet when two life crew was you know I was And I mean and we won't we won't get into it, but I mean to this day. I have never been so shocked Oh, yeah, nothing nothing nothing has shocked me more than that and that you know, and I'm I was that now big fan of easy In the same and it's funny is the things that sort of shocked me about easy then Which would you know as a college kid sort of like ooh so edgy Are not the things that shocked me now Different things about easy music shocked me now like oh wow none of us paid attention and he was saying that That wouldn't be okay now, right Right. There is a lot of that. It's watching some old british comedies and Those things are like stuff from the 70s. They are full of things where i'm like, oh, dude You could not do that gay joke. There's casual sexism and racism of the black face You're not a black face. No black face and british comedies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In fact, there's a whole Oh, yeah, there's this episode of are you being served that I just watched it was all black face stuff Oh, no another one with this japanese guy that visited. I mean it was oh, yeah It was rough. I was like, what are we what are we doing? And then I realized well, it's not them that changed. It's me. I changed and so do the rest of the matter. That's good. Yeah Well, it's it's weird because you don't notice it because you have you tend to have a very Halcyon view of of certain elements when you're younger and then when you look back on it's like wait a minute that I don't think that that's cool Like I used to watch the dukes of hazard religiously because I love like oh Car chases the car jumps over and then I realized what's on top of the general Lee and that the car is called Yeah, like you don't you don't realize it What's on top of the general Lee and that it's called the general Lee and also by the way Like it didn't occur to me because I was in like grade school. It's like cool the car jumps over things I think you know drive around a tree and the you know Yep, boss hawks frustrated. Oh, what are these boys going to do this week? Yeah Well folks, uh, we'll talk about uh more offensive things next week The folks but uh, we have to go for now audio folks stick around. We'll try to be nicer We'll we'll have more uh examples. There's more to come or la or fewer More shock and outrage Less shock. I don't know But bye video folks. That was what I was trying to say. Goodbye. Goodbye