 Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018. Brought to you by the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in Copenhagen, Denmark for KubeCon 2018, part of the CNCF CloudNative Compute Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation. I'm John Furrier, your host. We've got two great guests here. We've got Liz Rice, the co-chair of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, kind of a dual naming because it's Kubernetes and it's CloudNative. And also, technology advances with Aqua Security. She's co-chairing with Kelsey Hightower, who we'll be on later today. Kube alumni as well, Angelique Woe, who's the software engineer at Google. Welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for inviting us. Super excited, we have a lot of energy even though we've got interviews all day and it's kind of holding the line here. Is that it's almost a celebration but also not a celebration because there's more work to do with Kubernetes. Just the growth of the CNCF continues to hit some interesting good performance KPIs on these metrics. Growth's up on the membership. Satisfaction's high. Kubernetes is being called a de facto standard. So by all kind of general qualitative metrics and quantitative, it's doing well. It's doing great. But it's just the beginning. Yeah. I think I talked yesterday a little bit in the keynote about project updates about how Kubernetes has graduated. That's a real signal of maturity. It's a signal to the end user companies out there that the risk, nothing is ever risk free. But Kubernetes is here to stay. It's stable. It's got a stable governance model. It's not going away. It's working. It's going to continue to evolve and improve but it's really working. And we've got end users not only happy and using it. They're prepared to come to this conference and share their stories, share their learnings. It's brilliant. Yeah, and Janet, also you talk about China. We have an announcement that, I don't know if it's formally announced, but Shanghai, is it out there announced? It is. Okay, so Shanghai in, I think November 14th. Let me get the dates here. 14th and 15th in Shanghai, China. Where it's going to be presented and either English or in Chinese. So it's going to be fully translated. Here's the update. It will be fully translated and we'll have the CFP coming soon. And people will be submitting their talks in English but they can choose to present either in English or Chinese. Can you help us get a cube host that can translate the cube for us? We need some, if you're out there watching and we need some hosts in China. But I don't know, serious. This is a global framework. And this is, again, the theme of cloud native. You know, being my age, I've seen the lift and shift IT world go from awesome greatness to consolidation, to VMwares, I've seen the waves. But this is a different phenomenon with cloud native. Take a minute to share your perspectives on the global phenomenon of cloud native. It's a global platform. It's not just IT. It's a global platform, the cloud and what that brings to the table for end users. I think for end users, if we're talking about consumers, it actually is, well, what it's doing is allowing businesses to develop applications more quickly, to respond to their market needs more quickly. And end users are seeing that in more responsive applications, more responsive services, improved delivery of tech. And the businesses too have engineers on the front lines now. Absolutely, and there's a lot of work going on here, I think, to basically, we were talking earlier about making technology boring. You know, this Kubernetes level is really an abstraction that most application developers don't really need to know about. And making their experience easier, they can just write their code and it runs. So if it's invisible to the application developer, that's the success. That's a really helpful thing. They shouldn't have to worry about where their code is running. Dev Ops. Yeah, yeah. I think the container and Kubernetes technology, all these cloud-native technology that brings developer the ability to move fast and give them the agility to react to the business needs very quickly. And also, users benefit from that. And operators also can manage their applications much more easily. Yeah, when you have that abstraction layer, when you have that infrastructure as code, or even this new abstraction layer, which is not just infrastructure, it's services. Microservice's growth has been phenomenal. You're bringing the application developer into an efficiency productivity mode where they're dictating the business model through software of the companies. So it's not just, hey, build me something and let's go sell it. They're on the front lines, writing the business logic of businesses and their customers. So you're seeing the super important for them to have that ability to either double down or abandon quickly. And this is what Agile is. Now it's going from software to business. This to me, I think is the highlight for me on this show. You can see the dots connecting where the developers are truly in charge of actually being in business impacts because they now have more capability. As you guys put this together and do the co-chair, do you and Kelsey, what do you guys do in the room in the secret room? You're like, well, let's do this on the content. Cause there's so much to do. Tell it, take us through this process. A little bit of insight into how that whole process work. So we had well over a thousand submissions, which I think there's like 150 slots, something like that. So that's a pretty small percentage that we can actually accept. We had an amazing program committee. I think there were around 60 people who reviewed in every individual reviewer looked at a subset. We didn't ask them to look at all thousand. That would be crazy. They scored them. That gave us a kind of first pass like a sort of an ability to say, well, anything that was below average, we can only take the top 15%. So anything that's below average is not going to make the cut. And then we could start looking at trying to balance. So for example, there's been a lot of talk about were there too many Istio talks? Well, there were a lot of Istio talks because there were a lot of Istio submissions. And that says to us that the community wants to talk about Istio. And then number of stars, that's the number one project on the new list. I mean, this Qtflow and Istio are- Yeah, Qtflow is another great example. There are lots of submissions around it. We can't take them all but we could use the ratings and the advice from the program committee to try and assemble the best talks, to try and bring different voices in. We want to have subject matter experts and new voices. We want to have the big name companies and startups. We wanted to try and get a mix, a diversity of opinion. And you're a membership organization so you have to balance the membership needs with the content program. So challenging with given the growth. I mean, I can only imagine. Yeah, so as program co-chairs we actually have a really free hand over the content. So it's one of the really, I think nice things about this conference. Sponsors do get to stand on stage and deliver their message but they don't get to influence the actual program. The program is put together for the community. And by doing things like looking at the number of submissions, using those signals that the community wants to talk about, I hope we can carry on giving the attendees that thought. I would just say from an outside of perspective, I think that's something you want to preserve. Because if you look at the success of the CNCF, one thing I'm impressed by is they really allowed a commercial environment to be fostered and enabled but they didn't compromise the technical. And the content to me, content and technical tracks are super important because content, they all work together. So as long as there's no meddling, saying you're a swim lane, whatever it is, content is really important because that's the learning. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what's on the cut list that you wish you could have put back on stage? Was that too risky? Oh. I'll come back to that. Yeah. China, talk about China because obviously we were super impressed last year when we went to go visit Alibaba just to the odor of magnitude of the cultural mindset for their thinking around cloud native. And what I was most impressed with was Dr. Wong was talking about artistry. They just don't look at it as just technology although they are nerdy and geeky like us in Silicon Valley but they really were thinking about the artistry because the app side of it has kind of a, not just design element to it, the user perspective. And they're very mobile centric in China so they're like, this is what we want to do so they were very advanced in my mind on this. Does that change the program in China vis-a-vis Seattle and here? Is there any stark differences between Shanghai and Copenhagen and Seattle in terms of the program? Is there a certain focus? What's the insight into China? I think it's a little early to say because we haven't yet opened the CFP yet. It'll be opening soon. But I'm fully expecting that there will be some differences. I think that we're hoping to have speakers, a lot more speakers from China, from Asia because it's local to them. So like here we try to have a European flavor. You'll see a lot of innovators from Europe like Spotify and the Financial Times, Monzo Bank. They've all been able to share their stories with us and I think, well I'm hoping we'll get the same kind of thing in China, hear local stories as well. I mean that's a good call. I mean I think the conferences that do the rinse and repeat from North America and just slap it down in different regions aren't as effective as making it localized in a way. That's super important. I know that a lot of China companies they are pretty invested pretty heavily into Kubernetes and cloud-native technology and they're very innovative. So I actually joined a project in 2015 and I've been collaborating with a lot of Chinese contributors from China remotely on GitHub. For example the contributors from Huawei and they've been invested a lot in this. And they have some contributors in the core. Yeah, so we are expecting to see submissions from those contributors and companies and users. Well that's super exciting. We're looking forward to being there and it should be excellent, always a fun time. The question that I want to ask you guys now just switch gears is for the people watching who couldn't make it or might watch it on YouTube on demand, who didn't make the trip? What surprised you here? What's new? I'm asking you, have a view of the coach here, you've seen it, but was there anything that surprised you? Or did it go right? Nothing goes perfect, I mean it's like my wedding. Everything happens, didn't happen the way you planned it. There's always a surprise. Any wild cards, any X factors, anything that stands out to you guys. So what I see from, so I've attained, I think around five succounts. So from the first one, it's only 550 people, only the small community, the contributors from Google and Red Hat and Coalesce. And growing from now, we are growing from the inner circle to the outside circle, from the just contributors to also the users of it, and also the ecosystem, everyone that's building the technology around cloud native. And I see that growth and it's very surprising to me. And we have a keynote yesterday from CERN and everyone is talking about their keynote. Like they have, I think 200 clusters and that's amazing. And they said because of Kubernetes, they can just focus on physics. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the testimony right there. Yeah, that was really good stories to hear. And I think maybe one of the things that surprises me, it sort of continued to surprise me is how collaborative, there's something about this kind of organization, this conference, this whole kind of movement, if you like, where companies are coming in and sharing their learnings. And we've seen that a lot through the keynotes. And I think we see it on the conference floor, we see it in the hallway track. And I think we see it in the way that the different SIGs and working groups and projects are all kind of collaborating on problem solving. And that's a really exciting thing to see. That's why I was saying earlier on the beginning that there's a celebration amongst ourselves and the community, but also a realization that this is just the beginning. It's kind of like when you get venture funding of your startup, that's really when it begins. It's not, you don't celebrate, but you take a little bit of a pause. Now my personal take on all the hundreds of events we do a year is that I think that this community here has fought the hard DevOps battle. If you go back to 2008 timeframe, and eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, those years were, those were hyper scale years. Look at Google, Facebook, all the original DevOps engineers, they were eating glass and spitting nails. It was hard work. And it was really build your own, a lot of engineering, not just software development. So I think there's kind of like a camaraderie amongst the DevOps community saying, look at, this is a really big step up function with Kubernetes, because everyone's had some scar tissue. Yeah, a lot of people have learned from previous, you know, even other open source projects that they've worked on. And you see some of the amazing work that goes into the kind of like community governance side, the things that, you know, Paris Pitman does that around contributor experience. It's so good to see people who are experts in helping developers engage, helping end users engage, really getting to. There's a lot of common experiences for people who've never met each other because there's people who have seen the hard work with scale and leverage benefits. They've seen it and, wow, this is amazing. We had Cheryl from Google on saying, when I left Google and I went out in the real world, like, oh my God, they don't actually use Borg? Like, what? Like, how do they actually write software? So she's a fish out of water and that, it's like, so again, I think there's a lot of commonality. It's a super opportunity and a great community and you guys have done a great job. Thank you. CNCF and we hope we continue to nurture that, the principles and looking forward to China. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. Okay, we're here at the CNCF's KubeCon 2018. I'm John Furrier, more live coverage. Stay with us, day two of, two days of Kube coverage for theCUBE.net, SiliconANGLE.com for all the coverage. We'll be back, stay with us after this short break.