 Oftentimes, when you're applying or getting a new job, the salary negotiation is really the first time they're getting a sense of who you are as a person. And you don't want them to think, oh my God, what a jerk I just hired. This is your chance to actually demonstrate that you are a person who's out there trying to make the pie bigger. And you want them to wanna hire you more as a result of this negotiation, rather than less. So I'm not a giant fan of word games, but here's one or two examples. Imagine there's salary, there's bonus, and there's equity. Okay, of course I'd like more of all three, but I could ask the other side, help me understand where you are least flexible. Now, if I say where you most flexible, they're probably not gonna wanna answer that question, right? It's sort of, it's a scary question for them to answer. But if I say where you least flexible, everybody wants to tell you that. Yeah, look, I have no room to deal with salary. That's fixed, it's come from high up, whatever. Okay, so now you know what I do? I don't ask them about salary. Nope. Right? And I say, well, okay, let's talk about bonus. Let's talk about equity. And then they can't say that's reasonable. I know you're least flexible on this thing. So. Right. But you got some room to move. So you got some room. Supposed to, well, where are you least flexible? Everywhere. Not the answer you wanna hear. Yeah, it's probably not the answer you will hear. So I wanna allow them to tell me information in a way that's not threatening to them. And also I wanna respect it. Yeah. Because in fact, just like I wanna give the other side what they want, I don't wanna take from the other side what they don't wanna give me. Right. Because that makes them not wanna do the deal. Or even waste time on stuff that they can't move on. Absolutely, it's a useless negotiation. Another version of this is to say, help me understand why those wonderfully talented people you've hired in the past haven't worked out. Because I assume whenever you hire somebody you're expecting it's gonna be great. And I'm expecting it's gonna be great. So can we just talk for a moment about what led to the failures? And the reason why that's so valuable is they'll then tell you things which you can either say, they'll say what we really care is about team players that you may be a superstar on your own but if you're not part of the team that doesn't work here. And I'm like, oh my God, I am kind of the lone wolf person. Maybe I shouldn't take this job. Or you say, hey, guess what? Let me show you why I am Mr. Team. And then help them understand why you're gonna create a bigger pie and that you are not gonna be the failure. So if you can understand what goes wrong and you can convince them that you're not the type where they're gonna make a mistake, they're gonna want to have you even more. Right, it's a sure bet for them. Yeah, you're trying to make it a sure bet for them. And one way of understanding that is to explain why you're not gonna be the unusual case where things go wrong. So it's funny to talk about failure a little bit. Yeah, I think many would feel uncomfortable about it but it's such valuable information. And again, it's showing them that you care about their interests, right? Going back to this empathy, their side of the table. I want to make a big pie. That's my goal here. So I want our interests to be aligned and I'm trying to demonstrate how it is that we're gonna succeed on that. I'm a big fan of making the other side's argument. So a lot of people in negotiation when they hear the other side making some story, they spend all their effort showing what's wrong with it. And then what happens, the other side doesn't think they're being understood. You see, in life we can't always get what we want but we can always be understood. And therefore I need to help the other side. I need to demonstrate to them that I understand their perspective. So this is actually a place where Chris Voss and I disagree a little bit. Voss will, when you can't give the person a bonus, he says things to the effect of, I know you must be thinking that I don't really value your work because I'm not giving you this bonus. And he wants the other person to be like, oh no, no, I realize you do like me and this, that. Actually, if that's what my boss says to me and leaves it there, it's like, yeah, you're fn right. Yeah. So you can't just say, I know you're thinking this. You have to explain, here's why I really do value what you do. Here are the ways in which I value it. Here's how I've demonstrated I value it. Here's how I'm going to value it going forward. I may not be able to do this but here are the other things that I do. And so you have to make the other side's argument but you're not doing it to put them on the defensive. You're doing it to demonstrate you understand and there's something else that's going on that's even more relevant. Well, again, and even in sales, summarizing their points allows them to feel good that you're on the same page which opens the door then for more communication. Without that, those conversations don't go nearly to the place that we want, well, that I want them to speaking personally. And let's actually work on that some more. Let's do the yes and to that story which is let me put out on the table all of the objections that you might have. Right, absolutely. Because the fact is if you don't ask them, I don't get a chance to answer them. And so you might just be walking away in the end. We're not going to have a deal because there are these problems that I haven't addressed. So I don't want to hide them. I want to talk about them because if I can't resolve them, then we're not going to reach an agreement. And you may be embarrassed to ask them, but I know you're thinking them. So, for example, I'm thinking the listener to this podcast saying, well, okay, Barry, that's great if you were the small party, but why should the big party ever agree to this? Why should they give up more than half the pie? Because they were used to getting it. And my answer is that if the small party makes this argument and you reject it, you're showing that you're kind of the jerk out there, that you don't listen to reason, that you're obstinate. And so you might end up with no deal. And getting half of a great deal is better than a lot of no deal, right? I think the lines I'd rather have 10% of a watermelon than all of a grape. Now, it's a little bit trickier in the event that the small side is prepared to accept less than half the pie. Now do I tell them? And do I wanna have a reputation for somebody who does fair deals out there? So that more people wanna do deals with me. I might choose not to in that case. That's the harder one.