 Since we've got everyone, we'll give the audience a couple of minutes to type in their questions for the champions or the gold initiative as a whole. In the meantime, I do have some questions prepared, because this is my talk, and trolls don't apply to me, and I can do whatever I want. So my first question, and that will be to everyone, so jump in as you wish, is, well, we should be announcing new goals by now, but due to the pandemic, we decided to extend the current round for a longer period. What are your opinions about this move? We'd like to go first. So my impression, if you wish, is that while it does make sense to keep refreshing them, like they're all topics that could last forever, virtually, even the first round of goals, like we could still be doing them, and it's things that are never over, at least most of them. It's useful to have continued, I don't think that it would have, the world would have ended if we had stopped, but it's good, we're here, it's all nice and happy, right, so. Of course. Anyone else? Well, goals are also great to introduce new community members or highlight their work or their focus, so it's nice to have new people, basically. So that the community just can maintain and grow, so that's one of the aspects of the goals. Yeah, and also from an organizational perspective, the past one-half years has been pretty weird and tough on people, and since we really need to take care of our people, taking out some of the pressure of, oh my God, I have to raise to the finish line, I think was pretty useful. Yeah, for me, the thing is, I would like to do at least one in-person sprint for consistency. If we don't get to do it, well, we try it, but since there's time now, I think that's a goal that we should have. Okay, thank you all very much for the answer. I have a second question prepared. Question that you can clone yourself and additionally work for a completely different goal. What would it be? Touch screen. Sorry, what was it? Touch screen support. Ah, touch screen, okay. That would be my... It was actually in the proposed goals and I think I voted it just after consistency and luckily it didn't get picked. Incidentally, I have already cloned myself and I've been working on the Welland goal during my professional time. So, yay. I do agree though that there's other stuff that could be interesting, like for example in the hardware integration front making something that was part of the goals that wasn't picked up last time was plasma mobile in itself, which we've seen growing more and more, something along those lines. I think that would definitely be an interesting topic to have for the next run of goals for sure and something we could start working on right now as well, or we are already, right? Myself, I'm joined in consistency all about the apps, I'm quite interested in apps as well and in framework. So, I would jump in any goal almost. Okay, Lydia, you're not working on a goal, a specific goal, but if you could clone yourself and use the additional work hours, what would it be? I was asking Alex earlier today about making it easier to work on our apps for developers and that sounded pretty cool, even though not part of the current app's goal, but could be one of the next ones. And if you want to talk about the next ones, you should totally come to the buff where we discussed those. Yes, perfect advertising for the buff later this week. You'll be talking about the process of selecting the new goals, correct? I see one question already being submitted. So this is about the Wayland and all about the app's goals. Any interest views on supporting WSL2, which is the Windows Subsystem for Linux, especially now that Microsoft is working on Wayland integration? Having support for native, running our applications native beyond Windows, it sounds like it would be weird to go through their Linux layer. It might just as well be that their abstraction of Linux is better than kids' abstractions of Windows, so maybe it's just a technical decision rather than a social or business decision kind of thing. In practice, I think that it's a matter of whatever is easiest for the users to use if you have to. And personally, I am super ignorant on the topic. I haven't touched Windows in years, so to speak, but if for a user it's easier to adopt our own one of our applications by using Linux, maybe that should be the case, but I cannot doubt that this will be the case. So I don't know, in any case, JDobov, Highstack. David, do you want to add anything? Yeah, well, I just said it was like for our apps are already, most of our apps are already cross-platform, so at least to some degree, so rather than trying to put this way just as easy and maybe more direct and efficient in the end. Okay, we have a next question coming from David, and this is for every gold champion. How much did being an elected gold drive the progress forward? Maybe let's start with Nikola. Yeah, it surely helped to a certain extent. Because the idea of consistency and revamping the look of plasma was already in the air pretty much, even before the goal was selected. But giving it an actual infrastructure with charts and goals, like sub goals written down, it surely helped much. Okay, Maven, maybe you next? Yeah, well, at the personal level, it allowed me to jump into the subject more easily, because I wasn't a queen contributor before. And thanks to the goal, I was writing it. I had really strong motivation to jump in. And the drive, while the exposure was very beneficial and we had a virtual sprint that was very successful as well. I hope we raised interest in the users as well through blog posts and such. So I'm not too sure, but it definitely helped gather developer interest as well. So we had a lot more, I think here and there, a lot of more developers testing and then improving their apps or scratching their own each on their well-laundered session. And that's one of the benefits of the goal, the well-laundered goal, for sure. Okay. And Aless, you have a fresh perspective as a new goal champion here. What do you think? I don't think my feedback is very useful here. I just started and I don't know. So not a lot has happened yet with me in this position. So I'm going to pass on that one, please. Of course, understandable. I have a question from Johan. If you could spend the KDEV money, what would you spend it on for your goal or for other goals? I'm going to go ahead and change hats. Where suddenly my KDEV president hats and say, we already tried to give some money to the goals to spend some and they didn't. So I guess that the only true question is that spending money is a very delicate topic and something that people doing goals are generally comfortable with doing. So if somebody wants to spend KDEV money, what they should be doing is getting involved with the KDEV directly rather than going through the goals because this hasn't worked in the past. Yeah, I remember when it was proposed and I thought about it for like some weeks, I asked around, but I could not figure out anything practically useful to spend the money in. Well, I mean, there's always things that could be done, right? But it's also very easy to feel like you're wasting the money. As community members, what we're used is to coordinate with people rather than with resources. So let's just focus to what we do best and we know how to do, right? Maybe you want to say something as well? Well, I can't wait to have the restoration, the travel restoration lifted because that was the most efficient way to spend well the money for goals is to allow participants to meet. And it's just a very important part of the KDEV mission as well. Well, because the question is called, so it's not further, it's just that it's not normal this year. I can't wait to, but next goals, what are these issues? I hope. Of course. Lydia, what do you think? Yeah, I wanted to add the gold champions are there to among other things have ideas how to spend this money, but they're definitely not the only ones just like they're not the only ones working on the goals. So if anyone has meaningful ideas that would contribute to those goals where the plocker is money and not people's interest or time or stuff like that, please get in touch with the gold champions and suggest that. Yeah, so just to reiterate anyone who is interesting in moving a goal forward doesn't have to be the gold champion can propose a way to spend some money to do some cool stuff with the goal. Is that correct? That is correct. I mean, we obviously have to look at the specific ideas. If they make sense for the gold champions and are something we can pay for us and on profit and so on. But in general, yes, absolutely, please do come up with ideas and talk to people. Okay. So the kind of things that I remember that were floated when we did have this budget where we had the usability goal, for example, so having usability studied on some of the products. Would it be useful? Would it not? Spending some money there could have made sense, right? This is something that was discussed and in a product universe happened in our lovely universe full of pandemics didn't. There's like similar stuff like we also had the privacy one doing security analysis of our software. See if there's some kind of leakage of some sort. This could be possible. This is something that you could hire somebody or a firm to do, but never did because while people who are in charge didn't feel like things were worth the amount of money, which by the way, it's always big amounts of money when you have to actually hire somebody to work for a few months or even a consultancy which are generally expensive. Yeah, of course. I don't see new questions in the widget yet. But just a reminder, you can also address questions to specific gold champions. So, for example, if your question was skipped during their talks, you can use this occasion to re-ask it. But I do have some questions of my own as well. And this one is specifically for Nicolo. And you have switched over from blogs to videos recently. How do you think this changed your way of interacting with the community and the goal? Well, first of all, my blog post did not have comment sections and that was a big, big mistake because now that I do videos and I get so many YouTube comments and that's really nice because I actually see what people think and what issues people have with a certain project or designer, stuff like that. So that was a big thumbs up. And then there was also a thing that people are more likely to watch your videos and even more videos over time. If you do one blog post, it's hard for a person to subscribe to your SS feed whereas on YouTube, it's likely that YouTube will suggest my videos to people when I publish them even if they don't subscribe to me. So it's easier to reach new users. And that's also helpful to have a wider audience. And regarding this, I have a talk tomorrow at... I don't remember if 8 or 10 UTC regarding my experience in doing videos for KD. Okay, looking forward to seeing that. Okay, and speaking of blogs, maybe a question Lydia can help answer. And this is a leading question, so be prepared. If someone would be interested in the goals, what's the specific goal? Just what's happening in the goals? Lydia, do you know a way how someone could read up on the updates? Since not too long ago there is this dude who is blogging. Every now and then about a general update to KDE goals. I think his name is Adam and I think that blog post is showing up on planetkde.org even. Is that... does that sound right to you? Yeah, I think that's a perfect answer to this prepared question. So maybe someone in the chat can link the blog. Whoever does it first gets 10 points. The points don't matter. Okay, I don't see any questions coming up in the widget yet. So maybe we can use this occasion to go through whatever other tags or buffs you have related to your goals in the coming week. We already talked about Alice's ones. There are a couple of them regarding the apps goals. And also there's the one that Lydia mentioned, which is about selecting the next goals later on. Maybe, Nikola, do you have any buffs that people should be aware of that we didn't mention yet? As I mentioned, at the end of my consistency talk, I haven't yet set them up, but I will do that shortly. Okay. Yeah, well, it was already mentioned David Edmondson has a talk tomorrow, and Vlad is trying to find a slot for his buff for Queen as well. So I can recommend those ones. Okay, and the questions are coming in. So since we see KDE oriented devices being released, are there any queries or interests from corporates to support or sponsor a KDE goal? Is that open for corporate or is it just a community exercise? Who wants to take that one? Well, Alice, do you want to or should I? Yeah, I thought I could answer, but then I realized that I am here as the absolute goal person, so you answer. Okay, so far this hasn't come up. But the idea of the goals process isn't that someone goes and sets the agenda for KDE's community by money, right? But the idea is that we as a group goes through a process that helps us figure out what's most important right now, which is kind of in conflict with the idea of buying a goal. However, if there is an organization that would put in work and people behind the goal, please do suggest that, see if you can rally up interest from the community to get it voted in as a goal and then get people behind it. And if not, the goals process isn't the only way how to do things in KDE, right? There are many other things happening in KDE that do not have anything to do with the goals. They obviously shouldn't work against the goals. There's more happening there. Okay, anyone else wants to add anything? Okay, let's move on. What are your thoughts on goals related to spreading KDE culture by improvising resources, teaching materials, jotting down the history and creating a literature of KDE? We did have an onboarding goal, right? That was almost entirely exactly that. Yeah, but we could give that whole topic another angle, and the person who is interested in that should totally come to the buff where we talk about upcoming goals and suggest it. By the way, when you say improvising resources, improving resources, teaching materials and so on, I guess something related could be wiki to learn or something like that. Maybe it could be part of the question to work on improving that one, maybe. I don't know much about the project, but I know it's within the KDE umbrella. Okay, Albert asks, what are you, what are you feeling about goals, working on convincing other people to join the goal efforts? Or do you feel it's only people that were already interested in the goal working on it? I think that the reason to have a goal is to have other people working with you. Otherwise, it's things that you could be doing on your own anyway. We all have our own goals, personal own goals. Last night I fixed the bug, right? Did I make it a KDE goal? No, I just made a request. What we do with the KDE goals is to tell the community at large, please join us and let's work together on these topics. In itself, actually the very reason why we are having this presentation is not because we are so cool, it's because join us because we are so cool. If you're listening to the presentation we just had and thought, look at these people, they're very cute and they're doing very useful work, thanks. I think that we probably even missed the point because the point wasn't, look at the cool work we've done, the point was, come do cool work with us, right? Also, if not making people join us, I think it's very important for KDE contributors to respect the goals. So, when you go to, as an example, to a maintainer saying, I know you want to do this, but please discuss without this change because it breaks consistency as an example, the maintainer does respect the goal and say, okay, let's discuss it together. And that's mostly why when I read messages, like, yeah, if you think consistency is important, make this merger quest, I get sad because why if you think consistency is important? Like it's a goal. So, yeah. Okay. I have a question from Benson. I'll try to rephrase it a bit. He's asking about getting user feedback back to the goal champions, but also by, you know, where people are concerned about their privacy so you don't get that feedback in a way that would violate that. So, what's the best way to do that? I think that this is quite unrelated to these goals at least, but since I did a lot of the user feedback work, I can reply that whoever did this question is wrong because the premise is wrong. It has all been designed with privacy in mind and we're not doing anything to jeopardize the privacy of our users. If that's your understanding, well, there's something that we would have to discuss or maybe you could look at how it's implemented, but I would please ask you not to spread misinformation like that. Telemetry doesn't imply privacy infringement. It's just a way of other companies do and we are not a company, we are an open source community. So, those two don't relate. You cannot expect the same thing from different things. So, here we go. So, disabled by default, whoever is sending information about their usage of Plasma, even if it's anonymized use data, it's because they accepted it. So, there's no privacy concern there. It seems like the person who asked the question wasn't referring to that, but was asking that. I understand the plan, but I asked if it's working. This is regarding Albert's question about people joining the goal. Okay, so I misread, never mind. By the way, sorry if I'm rephrasing any of those questions wrong, correct me in the chat, we'll deal with it. We can go to Albert's question and say, do you think it's working to get other people involved with the goals at this point? I think that for consistency, people who are interested to be part of it are already part of it. So, what I'm looking for right now is mostly the respect from other key contributors so that when I go to maintainers, they actually collaborate with us. I think that when we do things, people respond, right? But not all goals are always active, or as active as they could be. Everything can be done better. And I'm sure that all of us are doing the best we can, but all of us, we could do better as well. If there's other things that could be done, do something that if somebody wants to help, do something that probably should be done, right? Because it would mean that we would get more people caring about the same things and uniting forces, which is always interesting, right? Yeah. Okay, another question from me. And the context here is that I'll be trying to describe the gold champion role to have it officially written somewhere because we don't have that yet. And my personal idea of a perfect gold champion is one that doesn't do any work on the goal itself. I mean, by writing code or closing bugs, et cetera, a perfect gold champion would just be the facilitator or the head person to relay up the community to work on the goal. What do you think about that concept? Well, what you are describing is almost like a manager, basically, or a coordinator. So a big part of our community is that people do mostly what they want to do. So if there are some people that are great at doing those things, but there are not many that many or that want to be involved in such a goal or another. So it's... And on the other hand, people... It's really hard to use this kind of role when you are not like this yourself or when you are not willing to put all your focus in this direction. So it's kind of ideal for sure, I would agree. But it's really hard to reproduce in the open source community, I think, as well. I think that we need to remember that we're all people and for the most part, also doing this thing in our free time. So this means that people should just be comfortable with the role they take on the project. So sometimes being a project manager can be the thing that you end up needing, but that doesn't necessarily be the case. And what comes to mind is the case of Nate when he joined the goals, not only he started doing the goal, but I think that he was mostly unknown to everyone in the community. And while he didn't really play that project manager role itself, he used the spotlight that the Kitty Goal gave him to, well, a bit like Nicolo said, to go to different teams and saying, I'm that guy and you listen to me because of that, but also for doing his blogs, which have been and continue being super successful. So I think that the goal itself is an opportunity to give a bit of a spotlight and reason to be for the different people. But each goal leader decides to do with that spotlight is, well, they're prerogative. Also, all of the projects are very different, right? Like what he needed to do and what he had to do, Nate was very different from what, for example, the onboarding goal had to do, which was more of a talking to different people kind of things and seeing exactly which bits of information were necessary. Whereas the usability goal was spread much thinner over, well, a lot more places, including very complex code bases, right? Yeah. People have been calling you the project manager or similar position. I see it a bit different, more in the direction of a cheerleader who helps others understand and get excited about whatever the goal is. And since all of us have limited time in a day, I think it is a very good idea for the gold champion or someone very close to that person to be their cheerleader and get more people involved because that's the way to get significantly more done as opposed to just putting all the work on one person for the goal. Because all the goals we have selected so far, all six of them were much, much, much more work than any single person could and should be doing. Something that has always surprised me, but it clearly is part of the very human nature is that people keep joining KDE, sending this email saying, Hello, people, what do I do? And then we have to give them an answer. The goals do give us this answer. And the gold leader can be the person who helps that person have an answer. My answer, until the goals maybe, was just find something that worries you and fix it. But I can understand that this is probably to wishy-washy for some people to turn this energy into something that they can to start doing on the next five minutes. Having a goal properly documented with tasks that they can understand and while they can relate to, it's probably easier than telling them, just go to Godzilla and find a crash and solve it. Because, I mean, there's literally hundreds of thousands of tickets over there, a lot of them that are non-actionable. So that doesn't help much. Okay, thank you very much for the input. I'll use all of it when I'll be describing the gold champion role later on. A different question. Since there are people watching here that maybe now thinking about, hey, maybe I'm going to be the next gold champion. I have a great idea. I want to push it as a goal for the whole KDE community as current champions. What tip would you give to the person that is thinking about it right now? Maybe to write a good, detailed task description, because if you just like a paragraph and say, okay, that's it, you got my idea. That's not going to work. If you write down, I think we should this, this, this, these issues. Let me give practical examples. That's going to help you, help people understand what you mean. Yeah, in practice, it's like, we're in this not so ideal position. We want to move into this idealistic wall of wonder and describe this hero's path that you as the goal person who proposes it, you're going to the very least narrate. I think that this is a proper way of looking at it. If you wanted to say, all of the icons should be blue, then you have to talk about how uncomfortable you are today about the icons being super colorful and you want to live in a wall where all of the icons are blue. If people get excited by that, they're going to vote it. Okay, thank you very much. I think we are running out of time. So any prospering future gold champions, check the schedule for the both that will talk about the future goals. And thank you very much, Lydia and the gold champions for this round table of questions. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you.