 GLP-1's actually work on specific, they work on the atrophy gene, they work on specific genes in muscle to retain muscle, to retain muscle, that's proven. Also bone density, do you know that? They work on osteoblast to keep bone. Do you hear people talking about this? Hell no, because they're out there just promoting themselves because they can just follow a tagline. The emphasis I'm trying to create here is everybody wants that one magic thing. Well yet, this starts the process, has these amazing things, but you've got to get other things going and obviously we've talked about this, the protein, you have to increase the protein to compensate because people aren't going to want to eat right at the beginning. So you have all these mechanisms that you can stop that and in fact you can build muscle on GLP-1's and you can build incredible lean mass on GLP-1. Oh boy, this episode we dive deep into Osempic or the generic name, semi-glutai. This is the miracle fat loss peptide. Everybody's talking about it. So we got the world's top expert on the subject. This is the guy that really wrote the book on peptides, Dr. William Seeds. He is the person, he's the man when it comes to this topic. So we had him on the show and it's like, listen, is this really a miracle fat loss compound? Like is it doing everything that they're saying it's doing? You're not gonna believe what he said. It's actually, believe it or not, a lot better than some of the stuff you're hearing. It actually blew our minds, pretty crazy stuff. By the way, if you wanna work with peptides, work with a doctor, get your stuff from a pharmacy, don't go online and get research chemicals, get weird stuff, go to mphormones.com. Our partners over there, doctors will work with you and you'll get legit stuff. And yes, they do work with these GLP-1 agonists like Semiglutide, Osempic and others. So again, it's mphormones.com. We're also running a sale this month, Maps Starter, the beginner workout program is 50% off and the Maps Starter Bundle, this is Maps Anabolic and Maps Prime, is also 50% off. By the way, if you leave a comment in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode, subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. We'll pick one of you to get those for free. So one of you will get those two for free. Now everybody else, it's half off. If you're interested in signing up, click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. Dr. Seeds, welcome back to the show. Thank you, it's great to be here. Yeah, we got you in person this time. You, do you work out? See you in person, this guy definitely lifts. How long have you been training for? Oh boy, since I got my first Sears weight set in... Sears? In third grade. Oh, wow. Plastic ones with the cement side. Plastics with the bench and everything. And I remember it was my big Christmas gift that I wanted and because I used to see this thing on these bubblegum wrappers where you could get a weight set. I didn't know you could get it. And my father got me a Sears weight set and I had no idea how to use it. He didn't. And I just started there. Wow, that's awesome. That's true. There's a whole generation listening right now that have no idea what Sears is. Yeah. Yeah, there's the catalogs. Used to buy them online. So this was back in the... This is Jack Lillane who was promoting that back in the day. No, just Sears, I think. Just Sears. I thought he needs... Instruction had everything. Every, you had a catalog that was this big and if you needed something, you got it from Sears. And it was amazing when I still remember it coming downstairs and seeing what Santa brought me and it was just, it was awesome. Sears was like the Costco of today. Yes. Any idea why they went under? Do you know, Doug? I think because Costco and Amazon... Yeah, it must have been the competition. They couldn't compete with those even though they had their foothold like that. I know. Used to buy tools there. Everything. If you get your haircut, I think even... Tires rotated and then... Hedge trimmers. That's actually where this... I think you guys bring back crazy memories. That's where I first learned that I needed a spotter because I thought it looked so great and I took the thing off and I got trapped. And yeah, it was bad. We've all done that. Yeah, I had to learn that. The shimmy. Shimmy or the roll down. Slide under, yeah. So this was in the 70s? This would have been in the late 60s. Wow, that's great. So let's see, at the time, you're looking at muscle builder magazine. This is Larry Scott and then Arnold Lader and all those. Were you following any of those guys? No, I mean, I was a little kid. We didn't have any of those things. All I knew is I wanted on the gum... There was this guy called Bazooka Joe or something who he wanted to be strong and I'm like, gosh, he can do all this. I want to be like that. That's awesome. And Pipeye. Yeah, of course. Do you guys remember Pipeye? Pipeye? He ate his spinach. Of course. And he gets strong. Of course, you kidding me? That's why I ate spinach. I hated it. That's why I ate spinach. I had to eat spinach, but it never seemed to work. And they say these ads and stuff don't influence kids. No, totally influence me. Totally, so this is great because you have a unique perspective. This is why we like you on the show is that you obviously are an expert in your field but you also are very experienced when it comes to fitness and training and strength training. And sometimes there's a bit of a divide, right? Like we'll talk to a scientist or a doctor and you could tell that they don't have any personal experience or they haven't really worked with anybody. The application isn't there. Yeah, in that space. And the reason why this is important and I'd love just some commentary on this before we get to the main topic is that people who are very consistent with exercise, people who are trying to build muscle and eat in a way to do so and all that stuff, it doesn't, it's a bit of a different category. Like to give you an example, we look at things that may drive, let's say, cancer. And so they'll say things like we need to avoid stimulating, you know, rapamycin, you know, mammalial rapamycin, whatever the chemical is, because it could cause cancer growth. That also builds muscle. MTOR. MTOR, thank you very much. My million target rapamycin. But that also builds muscle, right? Or they'll say something like a really low protein diet can cause improvements in longevity with animals. Well, and I guess if you're sedentary and don't do anything, maybe, but with athletes, I don't think that's the case at all. So you got both, which puts you in a pretty cool category. Absolutely, I love what you just said because there's so much truth to that. And there's so many people that go the wrong way and they're even my peers, you know, and people who are just focused in one vertical area and know a lot, sometimes misuse the concepts to make assumptions that really aren't true. And you hit it on the head with that. Excellent. Yeah. So that brings us to, so peptides and peptide science has been around for a little while, starting to become much more mainstream, especially right now. And you could probably place the notoriety or the, I guess, the awareness squarely on the GLP-1 agonist class of peptides or ozempic, the brand name of semi-glutide. It's like everywhere now. It's exploding. And what we just talked about, I think is a great place to start because let's start with some of the articles because everybody now knows, oh, they cause weight loss. I think that's accepted now. It's all over the media. But then we have articles saying, oh, it caused just as much muscle loss or you see these terms like ozempic face. You know, I read an article on that where people's skin looks to be sagging or whatever. This muscle loss really is not, this is something you want to look at if you're sedentary, don't change your diet, just go on it versus someone who does. Is that, would that be, I guess, accurate? Correct. Okay. So let's talk about semi-glutide and GLP-1 agonists. How do they work? What were they developed for? And then let's get into what they're being used for now. Sure. So the GLP-1s have been around for actually a quite a long time. And I started lecturing to our physicians around the world here, probably about eight, 10 years ago where GLP-1s just started to really make their push into more on the side of what we know about right now as far as type two diabetes. But GLP-1s have been around for the study, they started in the study of neurodegenerative disease. That's where the peptide was recognized to have considerable effects because they're GLP-1 receptors in certain cells in the brain, microglial cells, astrocytes, so forth, that have an influence on controlling inflammation. And they were looking at this avenue of the potential of GLP-1s in neurodegenerative or early cognitive dysfunction, Alzheimer's, things like that. Now why did they start there? Was it the inflammation? Just the scientists at the time had the specific receptors that they were looking at that they felt could influence this immune cell in the brain that has a great influence, a microglial cell has a great influence on basically inflammation in the brain. It's like the master house cleaner of the brain. It keeps things kind of intact, but it can also change, it can do something called a polarization into a bad cell that can start producing a lot of pro-inflammatory things that actually start setting off problems in the brain. So they saw that, or they show that GLP-1s could influence that inflammatory state of the cell and convert it back into an anti-inflammatory type of cell versus a pro-inflammatory cell, which was incredible. And so they started studying this more in trials and they started seeing other incredible changes that we kind of knew about anyways because GLP-1s are made, we make them in our stomach and we produce these, these are natural peptides that we make that have an influence on increasing insulin and improving glucose absorption and making the, they're basically it's something that you secrete once you put something in your mouth and you start eating, it's something normal, it's an ingredient. You produce it to help you digest and utilize glucose. I see, okay. So anyways, they, because of those, that aspect also they started seeing, wow, these people that were doing these trials and they're losing weight and their glucose sensitivity is better, their insulin is better, it's like, oh my gosh. And so Big Pharma said, are you kidding me? There's big business in diabetes, why are we going this round? So a big shift started progressing more into diabetes and which was incredible and which was needed because it actually, it's a peptide that actually makes changes that are so significant and this is why it gets so frustrated when you've got all these people out in this world who have a little bit of knowledge that are talking about things that are, like what you just said, they're misusing concepts to make something not look good. Here you've got a peptide that is actually something that finally, the first big thing that came along for diabetes was insulin, that was a peptide. People don't know that's a peptide, that was one of the first peptides that ever developed. Got the Nobel Peace Prize, did all these amazing things. Insulin changed the world and now we have these GLP ones that have an even greater influence because what they do is they actually change not just improving glucose, not just improving insulin sensitivity, not just improving efficiencies of the cell like AMPK and all of these things that improve mitochondrial biogenesis and improve fat cell function, improve muscle cell function, improve, you name it, these cells actually, or these peptides, what do they do? They change phenotype, phenotype, phenotype. Now for people who don't know, phenotype just means a cell has a genetic code, it has genes that tell it what to do and it makes, let's say a cell makes a certain protein, that genetic code is there to make that protein. Well, if something goes wrong in the cell where it can't make that protein right, that's a phenotypical change, meaning that there's radiation or there's something wrong with the cell that causes the genome still the same but it just doesn't make that protein right. So that's a phenotypical change. Well, that's what happens with diabetes, you get a phenotypical change in a cell, phenotypes change and just by giving insulin, you can make them better and they can live but you don't change the phenotype. But GLP-1s change the phenotype. This is more the root. This goes beyond, yeah, this is the root cause, this is where peptides, this is where, when we started lecturing on all of these peptides years and years ago, the key to success in medicine and the future of the world is get to the root of these problems and actually don't treat things symptomatically, which is, hey, we're doing great but let's, can we do better? And so GLP-1s change phenotype. That's, guys, I can't tell you how excited I get every time I get to say that. Have you heard that yet? Has anybody said that? No, I've actually, I've not heard that. Nobody's ever said anything like that. Okay, so that right away, what comes up for me is the potential politics involved in something that actually solves the problem because sometimes, and this is the pessimistic attitude I have towards Western medicine is, sometimes I feel like our goal isn't to solve, it's to just continue to treat so you're a return customer. Are we seeing some of this political battle between this because is that incredible? Like from what you're saying, it almost seems like we would stop using insulin and go straight here only, or is there still gonna be a case for insulin too? There's always gonna be a case for insulin for, you know, we're talking about, this is the tip of the iceberg really, this GLP-1s because these GLP-1s, we continue to modify them, like, how do I say? So I travel all over the world and I get to speak with all the guys that are on the cutting edge of doing all of the greatest research on all of these type of molecules. For instance, the GLP-1s are, they're being upgraded every year, something is different. Like, you know, we went from semi-glutide, a GLP-1 to terezepatide, which is a GLP-1 and a GIP. It's a glucagon inhibiting peptide and a- Oh wow. And a glucagon-like peptide. So it's a combination of two peptides. Well, there's another one coming that has three in it. And so we're, what I'm trying to tell you is that, you know, disease and issues like diabetes, even type two diabetes, type one, it's very stratified. It's, there's many, there's many different aspects of how complex it is for one person versus another. But that being said, these GLP-1s are the first step into where we're actually, we can change phenotype. And I will tell you, I will tell you even more so that I think it's just, it's not just that. It's the cool, from my perspective, the most amazing thing I've been able to see with this over the last, you know, eight, 10 years is how this one peptide has been the most successful peptide I've ever worked with in changing the mindset of a patient in every aspect of their life. It's incredible and, and I'll add this at the end if you want, I had, I just got back from Singapore where I met with the, one of the leading scientists in the world who just figured out something that we were seeing clinically. And I'll save that for the end if you ask me if I remember, we'll blow your minds away. And she's actually coming out to talk at my peptide world congress later this August. But the research just keeps getting incredible on the benefits of some things that, that have to do with one peptide, right? It's like, well, are you kidding me? So, I had, so let me, let me, okay. I can go a thousand ways on this. No, it's great. So this makes me want to ask this, I read an article and I thought, wow, this is really fascinating. This is very interesting. This is all speculation. I think it's anecdote at this point. I don't think there's any research to support this. And I wonder if this is what you're alluding to. They talked about how people going on GLP-1 agonists lost weight, but also found that it reduced their, their cravings for other bad habits like biting their nails or smoking cigarettes. Is that what you're alluding to? Absolutely. Okay. What's the speculation behind that? Cause obviously there's more than just, you know, it, it's improving insulin sensitivity or whatever in this particular regard. It's influencing behaviors in the brain. Is it the, is it that when we're, I want to take a guess. Is it that because we're reducing inflammation in the brain, the inflammation itself, it's what's triggering people wanting to, to, you know, maybe medicate themselves with different habits or whatever. 100%. Okay. You're on it. So that's what they think, huh? Well, it's not what they think. It's true. So, so, so what happens is, what happens in the brain, it's, it's actually in the hypothalamus and the, the science is, I mean, we, we spent three days, three days in Singapore on, on the hypothalamus and all of these incredible pathways that have to do with, with seiety, you know, eating and anorexia and gratification and all of these things are all interrelated in the hypothalamus. And, and, and it all comes down to, this is, you're going to love this. It all comes down to a hyper activated state of mTOR in the POMC. And which is a pre-opioid melocortin protein that's a precursor for, that makes a lot of the signaling agents in the hypothalamus that do all the things you want it to do to stop eating or to eat. There, there are different mechanisms and I won't go through, people will call your show and say never have me on this again because I say too much. So, so, but it comes down to this state of mTOR in the specific area of the hypothalamus and the, and nobody, that's just, that's just like it's just being written right now by the way about this mTOR. And this is, it's, it has to do with the lepidin receptors and so forth there also, but it's all because of mTOR and how GLP-1s can improve a balance in AMPK and mTOR and, and decrease that state of mTOR, which is kind of, you know, it's if for your audience in my world, in the cell, AMPK is like catabolic, mTOR is anabolic. You got to keep them really even and because if one goes a little off kilter, it starts doing too much. So if you get like, you talked about cancer, too much mTOR, well, too much mTOR, yeah, it per, it's more proliferation, more growth, more bad things. And if you don't have enough AMPK, which is catabolic, where you break down things to, to regenerate, to rebuild, you got to have them even. Does that make sense? It does, yeah. And so my, my, and that comes down to even something more biochemistry and so forth talk in something called redox, which is about NAD and NADH and stuff. And that's my world, it's, I'm always trying to just balance those things. Okay, and that's what you're doing with exercise is what you're doing with diet. It all comes down to that. So in the brain, and this is where now you're gonna, I'm gonna have to spill the beans. This, this researcher in who's just so brilliant. And I couldn't, I was like a kid in a candy shop talking to her about this. She's just presenting this, hasn't even written this yet. And she's telling me about how, when the GLP ones have had their effect over time on correcting some of these, let's say these circuits in the brain, what's incredible. Okay, so let's just back up and just, when people are on GLP ones, what some of the first things it does is helping people, it's decreasing their appetite, right? Everybody says, ah, I have less of an appetite now. I'm not gonna eat, I'm not gonna do this because something's been turned off or they get full faster, right? And they even start noticing, hush, I don't think I'm gonna drink that alcohol, like I'm gonna have that beer, I'm not gonna, oh, I don't think I'm gonna smoke that cigarette or I don't think I'm, you know, things that would gratify them in different ways, they're not, they're not seeking that. And it's kind of a shock right away stopping that system, turning that system off a little bit. Well, when, here's the big argument about GLP ones, it's like, well, you know, you're gonna stop this GLP one after a certain amount of time and they're gonna gain all their weight back, complete bullshit. Really? Wow. Complete, well, if you're not doing your job, this is my, I'm a little outspoken about some things and I'm gonna be outspoken here if you don't understand how to use these as a physician, you shouldn't be using them. And you've gotta understand that this is an opportunity, like all opportunities, when you're trying to work on weight loss with anyone, what are you trying to really do? You're trying to get them into that better mindset of nutrition and weight, resistance training, aerobic training, all of those things that mean way more than what you're doing with this GLP one, right? This is where your fitness experience really helps. Well, it's, you guys know it's the key to life. If you start looking at every paper in the world, anxiety, depression, cancer, all these things, they're all based off of what? Research on exercise and that. Well, this, getting back to the GLP one, what you have to understand is this is just, it's a way to get some of these things working right, change phenotype, get them in that mindset of, okay, well, we're working on this weight now, so what else are we gonna do? We're gonna start talking about diet. We're gonna, we have to institute some kind of exercise program, right? Because we know, you know, any, even stretching pilates, any of that stuff will turn off myostatin, turn off things that where people will start losing muscle. So you've got ways that you can, because any kind of weight loss program, I don't care what it is, people are gonna lose muscle if they're not approaching it right. Doesn't matter if it's, if it's calorie deprivation or your body's trying to reach metabolic balance. Yeah, it's just simple, straightforward. Evolution, it's an adaptation. So when people say, well, a G-pillar one, you're gonna, or GLP ones, you're gonna lose muscle. Well, yeah, you're gonna lose muscle on any diet if you don't approach it correctly. So just resistance training will turn off those things, but guess what? GLP ones actually have work on specific, they work on the atrophy gene, they work on specific genes in muscle to retain muscle, to retain muscle, that's proven. Also bone density, do you know that? They work on osteoblast to keep bone. Do you hear people talking about this? Hell no, because they're not, they're out there just promoting themselves because they can just follow a tagline. But I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No, no, go, go, go. Yeah. The emphasis I'm trying to create here is it's a, it's everybody wants that one magic thing. Well, yeah, this starts the process, has these amazing things, but you gotta get other things going and with the diet stuff, obviously we've talked about this, the protein, you have to increase the protein to compensate because people aren't gonna wanna eat at the beginning. So you have all these mechanisms that you can stop that and in fact, you can, hello, you can build muscle on GLP ones and you can build incredible lean mass on GLP ones. But going back to this brain thing now, the coolest thing, it's just so, I get excited just thinking about it right now talking to you about this. When you stop, when you, when people start getting adjusted to the GLP ones, they're thinking that, oh, doc, this isn't working as well. After they've lost 20, 30 pounds, right? Do I need to take more? And it's like, no, you're ready. We've been working, we've been waiting for this moment to start talking now about, I'm gonna give you some, I mean, I don't tell people this right off the bat, but I guess I am now more and more and now that I know this is true, is that guess what you've done? You've rewired your brain now to where, yes, you're gonna get hungry again. Yes, you're gonna have cravings like you did before, but you know what the change is now? Guess what the change is? Well, you've seen the path to the good side now by resisting and not doing it. Or you've had time to develop a different relationship outside of behavioral changes. It's behavioral and you're all right, but it's, you can guess what you can do? You can make the decision. Yeah. You can, you have that craving, but you go, you know what, I'm not gonna do that today. That is unbelievable. It's like, it's, and it's, so I was always getting this feedback with my patients, then I was struggling over time, like thinking, gosh, do I need to increase this? Or, and then I'd be, we just kind of work through it, work through it. And then I started again, hello, I'm a doctor. I gotta listen to my patients, right? I learn everything from my patients and don't think anything I say here is because I'm smart. It's because I listen. And my patients started teaching me that they could make those decisions. And I'm like, holy shit, this is really doing that. This is the things we thought it could do. It's doing it. So I met the damn doctor presenting, the scientist presenting this in Singapore. I was, my team was flipping out because they saw me like, oh my God, Doc's gonna lose it. And I'm just, I was just, and I was telling her about, you know, what we're doing clinically. And she was just, she was excited. And so it's, so what's happened is there's a real rewiring that happens and people can make decisions. And now can it go bad again? The answer is, of course it can go bad. If you, if you continue with the bad habits. You can rewire it backwards. Yeah, if you continue, that's how you got there. You got there because it got inflamed, right? Right. So I don't, did I answer your question? Would you mind pulling your mic just a little closer like a towards you this way? There you go. Did that answer that? It did. Okay, so I have a couple. You guys just heard some stuff that I was saving for my PWC. Oh, that's right. You blew my mind and I have a couple, like two thoughts really come to mind. I have a lot of questions here. Yeah, so one is just to back you up. There's, there, and this is pretty established. There seems to be a commonality or a root behind all, I don't know, for lack of a better term, impulsive or addictive type behaviors. Correct. So if you take somebody who's an alcoholic and let's say you just eliminate, for whatever reason, they have no access to alcohol. You see a very high occurrence of other addictive type behaviors. When I was a trainer, I would see this with people who got gastric bypass. They all of a sudden couldn't eat a lot, but you'd see their rate of things like, you know, other types of addictive type behaviors. In fact, they'd have to go through counseling to talk about this kind of stuff. So the root is in the brain. There seems to be some kind of patterning. And so what you're saying is these GLP one agonists seem to stop that. And then here's the other part, continuing down that path. Now I'm no longer engaging in that behavior. I'm not reinforcing those pathways because when you create an addictive behavior, here's the, this is the crazy thing. When someone's doing something over and over that's harming them and you're on the outside, you always say to yourself, why don't they know they're hurting themselves? They do. It just has become this kind of repetitive behavior, this wiring. And so what you're saying is they stop it long enough, almost like training wheels, just to get them off that patterning, maybe create some other patterns. If they come off, now they've got a little bit of room in space. And that's what you're noticing. That's very well said. And you said that better, so people can understand it better than probably what I said. Okay. And at the same time, you're fixing those cells in a way that they're not gonna follow those patterns again. They're gonna function efficiently now. Those cells that were in this hypothalamus, this specific area, they were giving misinformation because of being in that mTOR state. They were just doing too much. Now you have control of that. And what's even more interesting is I could go further and tell you how these people, how their lives change. I mean, they develop different hobbies. They don't even know why they have. Their ability to follow their tasks to just carry out action, they can do it. It's like there's no, that procrastination or those things that used to be part of their lives before, not around as it. It's there, but they can push through it. It's really amazing when you think about that type of an influence on it. It's like you've set this person free. And once the privilege I have is getting to speak with these people as this is happening and learning what's changing. And as you inform them about what's really happening, because I'm a big believer in teaching the patients as much as they can understand to learn what's happening to them. Because the more information they have, the more empowering they have it, right? It's unbelievable how that you just see this, like their eyes, their face, they just light up and then they start to go down these paths like, oh my God, this is why this is happening. Oh my God, it's, and so I get to hear all of that. It's just, it's incredible. Now what is like, so what does the typical timeline look like in terms of treatment? And so you start somebody on this and it's crazy. I mean, this is all mind blowing to me because I was just thinking it was the fact that it brought back like satiety and it was like a thing where it was like, you know, it was helped kind of taper off a lot of the cravings, but the inflammation part is really, really fascinating, but taking them through, you know, months and then kind of like getting feedback throughout the whole way. Like what does that look like in terms of like starting this protocol? So that's another great question about and emphasizes how everybody is on a different pathway. And I would say it's usually that from what I could tell you in my experience, that's something that's like, what I'm talking about is about three months to six months down the road in their journey of trying to get to that point. But I'll tell you what's interesting is they showed these changes in the study that they did, specifically looking at the brain. They showed these changes occurred instantly like things happened very quickly, like within days. So just by turning off some incredible machinery that's gone awry, that's gone bad, the brain can compensate very quickly. But I think it comes, so even though we know those things can change like that very quickly, I think it all comes back to what you were talking about in behavior and patterns and it just takes time for the person to kind of realize, oh my gosh, I can make these changes myself. Now what would look like sort of the best case scenario of like somebody going through this with their physician, but also then in combination with like a therapist or like a training, a personal trainer or somebody to kind of guide them through like the best steps with this? So it usually, so most of the people coming into this aren't focused on exercise or diet or any of those things yet. I'd say a lot of them, they know they gotta get better, they know that things have gone bad and they're just grasping for something to help them and they've done everything in the world and everything's not worked. And so that being said, with that being the more of the type of people you see, it's gonna take, it takes me, what those people takes me two or three months before I even can get them into the mindset of diet and exercise because they have to go, they have to get through, they have to first see the changes, right? They have to believe in your doctor, you have to believe in the process and just by the weight loss, it's incredible, right? And I always tell people the weight loss, my God, the weight loss is a, that's a side effect. It's a secondary thing. The reason I did this with you is because I'm changing your body chemistry. I'm really doing things to help you, bone, muscle, brain, everything. So when they get into that state, they wanna start, I think I talked to you guys about this, they wanna start learning more. They're the ones who initiate, it's like, well, doc, what's next? It's not me saying, oh, you gotta do this program, you gotta do this program because this is the way it works. You gotta hear it from them. And I'm gonna say most of them are totally on point, like, okay, what do I do now? And then when they're making those decisions to jump in, to exercise, and diet, it's all over, right? That's the kind of person you try when we teach clients. Absorb them, yeah. We talk about that with... Meet them where they're at. Yeah, we're trainers, with other trainers, that you can't just get a client and then do this, do this, do that. If you're really good at your craft, you lead them to ask those questions from you because when they come with that type of a mindset, they're more likely to follow through and execute it because it's them who's asking and want it versus you as a doctor saying you gotta do that. So we train and coach like this. Listening to you talk about this, and I don't know how much research you know or that you've spent reading up on ketamine, psilocybin, MDMA, it sounds kind of similar what is going on in the brain, what we're finding out about that stuff, of what you're talking about. Do you know if it's similar in any fashion, do you know anything about that? So that, that goes down a whole different road of, yes, well, it's different. In fact, one of my best friends is a chemist for the biggest Canadian company in the world, leading the research on MDMA and psilocybin and doing all these new projects now with. So you do know. Yeah, I lecture on it. Okay. It's totally different in its approach but it's all working on, it's so interesting. It's pathway in the brain, right? It's incredibly complicated but it comes back down to an inflammatory state of the brain. It all comes back to that. And it all comes back to kind of what in this area, how are you going to change these, how are you gonna change these things called cytokines, chemokines and proteases that affect cells in a bad way? And so that what you just talked about, those things work in different mechanisms to do that and GLP ones work in different mechanisms to do that. And GHRHS, GHRPs, BPC150s, all these things that we talk about, they all have different ways of working on these mechanisms. But what I'm, my point is that these, it seems like they're all somewhat, they're changing the, how we think or we perceive or how we, how. Well, let's say this, I think we'll get, that's a great thing to bring up because I don't think it changes how we think, it gives us back the opportunity to use those networks that we just haven't been using right. That we, we're not changing it, we're giving you back something that you've lost. The best way it was explained to me, Dr. Seeds, it's like you're on the top of a mountain covered in snow and you go down the mountain and now there's already a path and then you go down that same path again. And if you keep doing it, you make yourself a path that you're gonna kind of naturally go down and going any other way, you're met with lots of snow and resistance. You might not even know that you can go another way because there's this trail, right? So this is why like a habit, the longer you've been doing a habit, the harder it is to break. And so it sounds to me like what it does is it gives you like an option. Hey, there's other paths you could take and you could create other pathways and then the longer you do these other things, now you have different behaviors. Yeah, you could look at it when one pathway has dominated all the other pathways are neglected. And that's kind of what happens. And so that that's probably pretty true what you said. Okay. Now I know people are thinking to themselves because peptides are different than drugs in this particular sense, in many sense, but in this particular sense, you take a drug, an opiate, or anything, right? It attaches to certain receptors, the body or the brain adapts by down-regulating some receptors or up-regulating other receptors. So then you go off the drug and you have these exaggerated withdrawal symptoms, right? So you go on an opiate, opiate receptors tend to down-regulate, then you go off the opiate. Oh my God, I feel this pain because my body's at a whack. That doesn't happen with peptides. If we take a GLP-1 agonist, are we gonna down-regulate GLP-1 receptors and then go off and get withdrawal? Or is that's not happening? So nobody knows the answer to that. If they say they do, they're wrong. Because we don't know, your thought process is right. There are certain peptides that if you use too much of something, it can down-regulate a receptor. But most of the peptides that we use, we use them in a physiologic fashion. We're just using enough to get a response and that's it, we're not oversaturating a receptor. Now with the GLP-1s, an argument can be made that yeah, we are oversaturating a receptor for a while. But it's, my concept of these GLP-1s is that what it's always been is that you utilize them initially to get the beginning process of what you want and then we back down on the dosing. Now is the dosing right now, is that physiologic? No, I don't think it is. I think it is super physiologic that we're using to make these things happen because you have to initially. But I'll tell you, there have been long-term studies on the use of these showing no problem with saturation, none at all. But I do believe, I'm always a believer in okay, when you've accomplished something, let's start backing down a little bit. But I think GLP-1s have a place for longevity, for a lot of things. So I like it there as a continued possible resource for people. Do they need to keep doing that? No, but I think if you have the time to explain the importance of how a peptide like that can change efficiencies. And so what I'm actually telling you is that I think there's a world that's bright and amazing for GLP-1s where there will be no issues like that at all. Are you seeing anything like withdrawal in your clinical practice for people? No. So they'll go off and they're okay? Absolutely. Is there a hundred percent? No, I haven't seen, and I've prescribed, I mean, this is the other thing that drives me nuts. You hear these people that talk about it and don't practice it and say, oh, my patients and like they have five patients. You gotta have thousands of patients that you're working with to have to really make some clinical statements maybe. And even when I make them, I always say, this is what I see in my practice, but I don't see anything like that at all as far as withdrawal from a GLP-1. I don't see that. Is there a type of client who this isn't for? And what I mean by that is like, we talk about the health benefits for the average person for incorporating fast occasionally, right? We know all the science that supports that there's health benefits to doing that occasionally, but there's a type of client that I would never recommend that to an example with somebody that struggles with bulimia or anorexia. I'm not gonna teach them to refrain from food. They already have a really bad relationship with food. And so that'd be an example of a client. I'm like, this probably isn't for you. Is there a type of client that you think that like, okay, this probably isn't for you that comes to mind? What you just said is correct. And it's a, again, it's the art of the medicine or the physician and being able to realize those type of people that you could harm more than hurt. And those are the people that want to use it more to be in those states of those anorexic strates and that's something you have to be aware of. And we all see it, I would be remiss if I told you that I didn't see that and make those mistakes. I've had those patients that I didn't realize were those type of people. And it's a very difficult conversation to have to back them down. And it takes a while, but you have to do it. It's our responsibility to help them, but it's tough, it's very tough. Now another challenge is people are reading articles that Osempic is being sold out, it's really expensive. You could get some aglutide as a generic and that's still okay, right? Yeah, so I think there's probably a misnomer and there was some people pushing a message there on that, I'm not gonna, I wanna get into that. I know everything behind that. Okay, interesting. And it's available for everyone. Are peptides able to be patented or is this different than drugs? Because I know that if Osempic was a... I wanna know the backstory. Yeah, is that a marketing point? I wanna know like... Be as politic correct as you can and I wanna hear scarcity, you know why that was happening. Oh, there's just lots of politics that happen. Like the De Beers Diamond people in the minds of restrict the production. Yeah, we're only gonna produce so much. Or a new product that's gonna be a competitor or a new brand that's gonna be a competitor or somewhere along those lines. Yeah, you guys are good. Just blink twice, if we're crazy. Like you, we've been doing this for a long time. I've given you guys a lot today. So are they able to not be patented peptides? Are they different than drugs? No, they're patented, yeah they can be patented but you can add things to a peptide that can make it different. Change it just a tiny bit. So now I can market my Osempic with politics. They're much more challenge, much harder to wrap your arms around as a pharmaceutical company and say, you can't touch this. Oh, wow. Yeah, because it is in a... The chemistry is more friendly in allowing you to work with a structure to make it even maybe even more effective in certain ways. Do you foresee then, because look the pharmaceutical industry is, I mean, they've done some remarkable things but also extremely powerful. And because of the way that our regulatory system works, I mean, just to develop a medicine or a drug could cost you a billion dollars just to get through trials. Do you foresee them coming up with new regulations to make it easier to protect a peptide creation? Or do you think, no, this is just, it is the way it is. Because as a pharma company, if I'm a pharma company and I see what you just said, oh, they can change this. I'm gonna patent this but they're gonna go buy it over here. Like, I'm gonna go lobby my Congress people and say, can we create some new laws so that I can do this? They are doing that. They are doing that. Okay. So they're already trying to modify how many amino acids can be allowed in a peptide that, yeah, it's already been done. There's already those senators that have flipped and are owned by those groups and they make those changes overnight and they happen. But that being said, the pharmaceutical companies are, they're doing some great things because they are, they're realizing that these, that peptides are the cost of doing this is a lot less for them because they're, because they're mimicking molecules that are already part of, you know, known in the body. And so the investment in something like that is much easier to recommend to your investors because of less tolerance, less side effects, less, you know, they know there's a better course of action because they're mimicking something we already know about, right, instead of trying to make something, tell a cell to do something. They're gonna do all these trials and see what the hell happens as a result. Yeah, so it's opened a whole new world of, I mean, the peptide science and studies around the world are, it's insane right now where labs are focused on all of these different signaling agents that are, and they're easier to make, they're not as expensive to make. So that's even better. And that's what we need. Yeah, so, because I would imagine one of the benefits is you can identify peptides that are naturally occurring, you have a place to start from. Correct. Okay, not to go off on a tangent because I know you're just a complete wealth of knowledge, but are you seeing that you- Will you tell that to my son back there? Hey, listen, I got kids too. Billy, did you hear that? Yeah, he's super smart. That would go far. Not to go off on a tangent, but are they doing more and more, I guess, initial trials in silica where they're putting these peptides, changing them a little bit, putting them in an algorithm on a computer, boom, it spits out. So that's gotta reduce the cost tremendously. Oh, the AI on this is crazy. Okay, it's crazy. So just to kind of wrap around- There's a tetrapeptide that came out for COVID that actually showed, you know, it was developed by AI that showed what the capabilities of a tetrapeptide could do. It never got to market- Weird, I wonder why. Fact. Fact. It- Careful, you're gonna get a shutdown here in Texas. I'm not gonna say anything. It's enough right there, brother. We'll talk off here. Just to kind of wrap our arms around this GLP. Because I'm listening to you and it just sounds to me like this could be a miracle substance. I never say, nothing's a miracle. But is there anything that even comes close to what the potential is for something like this? There are a lot. Yeah, absolutely. There are lots of other ones that we can talk about, but this one is, in my opinion, has the most far reaching specifically for covering so many aspects of cell efficiencies. It's the one, it's the one peptide that has, just in, you know, it has so many, when I say pleotrophic, it has so many different pathways it works on, you know, muscle, bone, brain, kidney, liver, you name it, it has that kind of an impact. And it's, but more so what I said is this, how we're talking about changing, with all these peptides, we're working on changing phenotypes and that's where we've got to get towards. That's precision medicine is headed towards not treating symptoms, but treating the phenotypes that change to get those people into those states. Okay. Right? Because again, going back to insulin, you can give somebody insulin, you know, hyperglycemia when you have too much glucose in your body, you give somebody insulin. That's like a big band-aid though. Yeah, it calms it down and people can survive and do things, but does it change what the cell, how the cell utilizes glucose and what it does in the machinery of utilizing that to make energy? No, it doesn't. But GLP ones start to change that machinery. So just to kind of close this off here, because people could go- I thought we just got to go home. Yeah, I know. This is the warm up water. This is the one, so we got more to go. Someone could go online and, because you could do this right now, and I think this has to do with just loopholes in the law, and they can find GLP one agonists, research chemical companies, and they can buy them online and self-administer them and people are doing this. Yeah, that's scary. Any words of warning, any advice for people who are doing this without going through a pharmacy, without going through a doctor? Very scary. So I did a study, I actually did this study, but I think it was maybe eight years ago where I did that and I took these, I won't say where from, but they were from multiple online sources of peptides to I did the, specifically looking at the makeup of what peptides were there, what wasn't there, what other substances, and it was just not good. And I didn't even, I should have published it, but I would have been, I'm still may publish it. It was not good. And in that meaning, so a peptide is a specific molecule of amino acids that depend on it being specifically what that is. So if it's a 15 chain amino acid, it's 15. Well, all 15 of those have to be there, they have to be right, and they have to be bonded correctly. Let's say you only have 13 that are there and then the other three amino acids are different. Well, you don't know what those, when you take that peptide, those other three will break off and you don't know what they're gonna do in the body. So you can be doing all kinds of weird signaling in your body, not even know. You have no idea. And that part of that 13, you have no idea. It's what's, and it's, those things are what you worry about with cancer and you worry about with immune diseases and you worry about things that can go really wrong. And that's the different, I mean, you've got something that has to be tested correctly. It has to be certified. It has to have the antimicrobial check. It has to have the potency check. It's gotta have, that's why you have things that have to be regulated and have to be looked at. That's why you have to, why would you administer something in your body like that that isn't from a trusted source? Yeah, and not to mention you could be, someone could be taking these right now and be like, I don't feel, I feel fine. But these could be effects that might take months a year, two years, three years to manifest because maybe it's not toxic right out the gates, but you could be signaling something that could cause a problem. It's not worth the risk. It's not even close. It's not worth the risk. You know, I actually want you to wrap up with something that I think Justin was kind of alluding to and I think I want something a little more concise. I know that after this episode, we're gonna have a ton of people that are gonna want to start this, right? And so, and I know every, you've already said it that there's, you know, everybody has their own individual path and where you start them and when you could introduce, but if you were to kind of outline like, you know, and it doesn't have to be five steps, but like the five steps, if you get started on this, one, step one, obviously work with a doctor. Step two, have somebody who is gonna do some sort of therapy, you know, however many times a month with you. And then, you know, is there a process, a general process that you would recommend most people that we're gonna go down this pathway of their kind of their mindset or what they should do? I'm sorry, I'm not, what do you mean? So, okay. In an ideal world. So for example, like when I get a client and in general, when I tell people before I start making them eat all crazy and different, I'm gonna actually say, listen, I just want you to track and pay attention to what you're eating so we can become aware of what that is. Before I put you on some crazy workout routine five days a week and train like, it's just like, hey, let's go to the gym and we're just gonna do these few things, right? So I try and help clients build good behaviors before I kind of throw them through the gauntlet. So when you think of somebody who's gonna listen to this episode, they're gonna go try ozepic or whatever, you know, and they get going. What are some things that you would tell them as they start through that process? Well, hopefully they're working with a physician that has the experience to start implementing stages of a multiple-discipline approach, you know, to what they're really there for and that's to change their lifestyle. Right. So I guess it's just, again, it's really tailored on the response of the patient where, you know, the other thing I'll tell you, it's not an easy road, you know, using ozepic. You've gotta be in constant communication with your patients because it is something that not everybody, you know, we didn't really talk about that people can have side effects of nausea and fatigue and things that you have to work them through at the beginning. So it's not like it's just this thing, you start and everything's great. They have to know about that when you're starting that. And so they can be expecting that, but we build things into the programs to so they can be ready for that, you know, that you're preparing them and they feel confident in their approach and they understand that this is coming and they're undergoing a metabolic change in their body. I mean, you're changing the metabolism of these people that, of course they're gonna get fatigued. Of course some things are gonna happen, but you work with them and pushing them through that. And does that answer your question? Yeah, so you are. So what I'm hearing is that, you know, this is not something that you just should buy online and start doing your own. You should have a physician that, and not just any physician, a physician that actually is taking people through this process and can coach you through the different feelings you're gonna have, whether that be the nausea or whatever. And then also how to maybe implement a strength training routine and then diet to work you through this in the future. Would it be safe to say, obviously, step one, do this with a doctor? Correct. Step two, find a doctor who's got some experience with this who also you can be in contact with. Not just here you go, I'll see you in three months. Correct. Okay. Correct. And that is focused on those other changes. I mean, wouldn't you want that, you want that person that's thinking about all those, those other aspects of my life to make this really work long-term, right? Cause the goal is long-term. And again, the goal is to get them really interested in their health of where they're paying more attention to their nutrition and they're paying more attention to exercise. And then once that happens, oh my gosh, it's a totally different world and it's amazing because then you can start going down these roads like what you guys, what these other things you guys talk about, these other peptides, you know, the BPC, CJC's and the Mod-A-C's, SS31, all these things that can help enhance efficiencies. When you've started that process with these people and they're already now ingrained in that, they're zealots for health, it's a lot of fun then because they're changing other people's lives too because people see their changes and they're happy to share their experiences with them. And then it just kind of keeps growing because they help them go down that journey. You know, I've been able to see that too, which is really cool. It's a, there's a reason we're all talking about this. The reason is it works. The reason is we're getting healthier people that are taking control of their lives again. And I think that's really the most important thing. It's not people telling you, you know, take this box and this will make you better. Do this program, this will make you better. You're actually getting a whole mindset of, hey, you can make yourself better and you'll dictate this pathway moving forward. Well, Dr. Seeds, this has been great. This has been phenomenal. You've really shed a lot of light because we're all, I mean, being in the fitness industry, we're always very skeptical whenever something comes out, medicine, or otherwise it says, hey, this one, yeah, but I mean, you have the background, you're also a fitness person. So this is incredible. I can't wait to see where this goes. Will you tell my son I'm a fitness person too? I think you can see that. Appreciate you coming on, Dr. Seeds. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you guys.