 Coming up proton launch proton anomaly, and I'm at large dangerous rocket ships 35 Stay tuned tomorrow begins right now And welcome to tomorrow episode 9.21 for Saturday June 11th 2016 My name is Benjamin Iginbotham I'll be joined by Carrie Ann and space Mike in just a moment But before that happens a huge shout out to all of the patrons of tomorrow who have talked to make this specific segment to this episode These are the people who've contributed $10 or more to this episode to find out how you can help crowdfund the shows of tomorrow head on over to patreon.com slash TMRO and we're only about $22 away from our next reward level which is As of right now and at $1,000 per episode. We're gonna open up our swag store So you'll be able to buy like tomorrow shirts tomorrow mugs things like that even the tomorrow pins that you guys are big They're more like buttons than pins. They're almost communicators. They're almost just Star Trek They're actually kind of cool. You there's a picture of Jared in them from not that long ago So we'll make all that available on our store. All right, let's go ahead and get started with some space news First up we had a proton launch with Intel set 31 and DLA to communication satellites You don't get a countdown for that one. That was a Thursday June 9th, right? It just kind of was like Thursday June 9th at 07 10 coordinate Universal Time like I said that was Intel set 31 and DLA to which are Comsats their US based television broadcast satellites for Intel set and direct TV The neat thing about this though isn't necessarily the payload. It's the proton rocket itself This is the first proton rocket with a phase four enhancement. I'm air quoting it. You can't see me air quote phase four It's debuting it's debuting a lighter structural components to carry heavier satellites into orbit meaning these use of composites Lighter weight in higher-strength aluminum metallic structures and a more high-precision tooling system This is the replacing the phase three version that launched in 2009 and with the new design changes the proton and Breeze M Can hoist thirteen thousand eight hundred and eighty nine pounds, which is about six point three metric tons now so that's essentially a new rocket or a new grade of rocket and So to hand that off we'll head over to Space Mike talking about some of the anomalies that they saw with this new rocket That's right with all these upgrades like Ben mentioned they are able to loft heavier payloads and Actually, they have a little bit better aerodynamics on some of the stages as well But with this on this first inaugural launch of this phase four version of the proton M they actually had a problem on one of its upper stages the second stage and We actually have a diagram of some of the upgrades that they have done on this and you can see exactly where They have done some of these new composites and where they've done it on the stages But on the second stage after the first stage there are four engines and one of those four engines shut down earlier than planned However, fortunately all those four engines can gimbal or pivot up to three degrees Which was enough to compensate for the loss of one of those engines and then later the fourth stage the breeze M Upper stage initially fired its engines for thirty four point five seven seconds longer than planned to Compensate for the anomaly on the second stage so the payload could reach its intent original intended parking orbit before doing a multiple series of burns of with the breeze M Upper stage in order to get that payload into its final geosynchronous orbit So pretty cool that they had this is just another example of another Anomaly that we've had with an engine shutting down early But another case where the upper stage was able to compensate for that and still deliver the payload successfully So very cool. This is a show with noises You've got your dog barker and then we've also that's all right a swift. What is it swift kiwi 1990 in the chatroom says just pause the shows Guys, baby is crying. So that's all right. Swift kiwi. We'll wait. Oh, okay Just let us know when we can go again You can pause the live streams to or as someone mentioned wireless headset that's kind of awesome You're 30 61 says more precision tuning systems You mean the Russian Navy gave up some manufacturing on those to sheba mills You know, they know, I mean the Russian Russian rockets are fairly They're fairly reliable. I I mean, okay So they've had some issues recently, but the Soyuz has been flying for ever and this isn't a Soyuz But as an example, it's been flying forever. So I don't know the Russian rockets have been doing a really good time Yeah Well, right. Oh, I mean, do you disagree? No, no, no, no, I completely agree. I was just saying since the 1950s the the first two stages of the Soyuz have been have been flying ever Since then and have haven't had a whole lot of changes Over the years and very reliable and you know, just like you said proton has had quite a few problems recently over the years But hopefully with a lot of these changes, they'll have the greater levels of success with this more precision Tooling I was reading up on it and the way that they were able to manufacture the second and third stages Actually allow it to have a lower tolerance when it comes to stress levels So they hopefully won't have any rapid unplanned disassemblies in future launches And we'll be able to hold up to a little bit tougher conditions So that's pretty cool that they're they're able to do that with this as neuro pilot said the tooling is pretty good on The Russian side the milling machines are very good. It's the QA. That's kind of lacking. Well recently, right? I mean It seems like they're going through a shift a guard shift so to speak right a change of guard And they just need to be brought up to speed and once they're back back up to speed I think we'll start to see that reliability come back into place people are arguing see saying that the protons Proton rocket seem to have a yearly scheduled failure Yeah, bro does not not as reliable as Soyuz, but yeah, I think they'll get there they'll get there All right moving around I hung here too long I'm moving along the Delta IV heavy with the National Reconnaissance office payload here you go We have main edge in ignition two one and Lift off lift off of the United Launch Alliance It lumbers off the pad. It's not It's a gigantic view Lift off is just a little painful. Well, it's an all liquid rocket So it's really really heavy and it just it takes a while for it to get off It's beautiful that happened Saturday, June 11th at 1751 coordinated universal time As I said that was the National Reconnaissance office launch number 37 from space launch complex 37 so 37 37 this is the second launch up for the NRO this year It's also the second launch of the Delta this year Because it is a NRO payload the details of that are actually classified having said that we can use some deduction To figure out we think it is most likely an Orion electric signal intelligence or elint satellite for observing Maritime and like See stuff is my understanding on that one. All right So I have to say though that because it's such a rare occasion that I've ever seen a Delta IV heavy launch I was by the way speaking out. I'm gonna pause you. I'm sorry. I was there the first launch attempt I was out in the rain In Florida ready to see the Delta IV heavy I was getting drenched and they what was it like a six-hour window So waiting for like seven hours for that thing to launch and it was never I know and then I come home I bring the rain with me and then they launch they launch today, so I'm sorry No, but I was just gonna say that I can't remember last time I ever saw one. Yeah, and so it looks fake Not fake, but it just doesn't look like a real thing like I've seen a shuttle launch I know what a shuttle launch looks like when I see a shuttle launch. Nothing. It's just that lumber so because it moves So no, I think because there are other rockets that have I thought I don't see a rocket that looks like that Does that make sense? So when I see other rockets launch and I know basically kind of what they look like and I know sort of what they Should look like in the air and moving through the air That that looks like a real thing and the only other thing I've seen like that are Graphics of other rockets that sort of look like that that are not real rockets So, you know, there's that SpaceX conspiracy like group. I don't know what they're called. Is there a name for those guys? Are you talking about flat earthers? So they are generally also flat earthers, but they're also the whole SpaceX has never been to space and has never landed a rocket and it's all a scam Yeah, and none of it's yeah, none of it. Yeah, I think it's ever launched into space Yeah, I see that's all part of flat earthers, but I thought they had another title for it So maybe that's like part of that I didn't I didn't mean to yeah I'm sorry. I didn't I didn't mean to feed that fire. I just it's just I I can't remember last I always saw something like that and so it it's so foreign to me It's so it doesn't what about like an aria on fire. It's got the boosters on the side I mean it tips in at the middle. I guess maybe that's why I don't know I feel like with aria on five launches You can see like a lot of trees and stuff nearby that kind of give you a reference for scale But something about those pads that United Launch Alliance and SpaceX uses Without actually being there seen like an aerial shot or a close-up shot of that makes it look Smaller than it actually is when it's actually much larger And I know what you're saying, especially like with that footage of the launch there It looks really tiny like it could be like a model rocket or something But it was super slowly for being really tiny Well, yeah, I think that's actually a common problem with all rockets is it's really hard to develop a sense of scale for these rockets Using the Falcon 9 as an example I've had an opportunity to obviously see them horizontal and vertical and in their horizontal mode You're like, oh, yeah, that's a pretty big rocket But when they're vertical that exact same rocket like that thing is huge And I don't know what it is in the difference between horizontal and vertical But you're at least my brain processes it totally differently. And so Portrait then That's you just use my iphone in portrait mode to grab pictures of it the the Is it just it's interesting the issue is you have nothing you have you can't relate it to anything like yeah Yeah, you have no context especially in Florida where it's all like you said it's all flat There's no terrain. There's nothing there's no context for like hey, here's a giant thing next to it So or even like in Biken or where it's also flat there There's like various buildings spread out all over the whole launch complex and you know from particular shots You can get a really good idea for scale of how big the Soyuz are the protons are and stuff like that I don't think you really get a really great sense of scale until you see human walking underneath one And when you see this teeny tiny human standing what right, you know under the rocket bell and you're like oh That is this oh Right, so during launches there won't be humans walking underneath it because you know fire Can we just build Eiffel towers next to all launch pads? But you don't but you don't you don't have no reference you need yeah All right, so let's move along so Firefly sent out a tweet check this out firefly space essence systems sent out this single you singular tweet says the first of 12 Engines has been mounted and tested on our aerospike live ring So we also grab just that image to give you a higher quality version of it. So isn't that amazing? Yeah? Absolutely, it looks absolutely incredible. Here's the thing though. That's not the whole engine It looks like it would be but it's not their engine actually looks more like this It's a that's one of the outer rings that go around the outside Yeah, so this is part of the f re2 engine for the firefly alpha vehicle That's known as a plug-it cluster aerospike engine It uses liquid oxygen and rocket propellant one although they're working towards a liquid oxygen and methane engine and what what's going on here is Go back to the other image for me for a second So those all of those combined will make up the one rocket engine in in a traditional rocket engine You've got a skirt or a bell on the bottom and that's where all of the fire goes through and that's kind of a necessary evil for rocket engines to kind of What we'll say shape the fire in such a way that you get the optimal thrust the problem is as you As you ascend there and I'm done with that data as you ascend through the atmosphere The shape like the the pressure outside the vehicle changes and so you'll end up You know you have like perfectly optimized fire and then as you watch any rocket engine Lift off as it gets through low and lower pressure You'll see the fire start to expand and as it is expanding you're actually losing efficiency And then you stage the vehicle they separate and you get a you know a optimized engine again So what an aerospike engine does is it actually uses the aerodynamics of the flight to basically create and A mostly optimized engine bell throughout all stages of ascent so at a specific pressure It won't be as optimized as a singular engine bell, but through the entire flight It's actually changing because there's there's nothing there It's just using aerodynamics, and it's more more effective all the way through the entire flight I hope I did a good job of explaining that I got it, but okay. Yeah, it's it's fairly I'm trying to use terminology that anyone would understand So that's what they're working on and it's to the best of my knowledge No one has ever launched an aerospike. We've tested aerospike engines before but I don't think everyone's ever actually flown an aerospike engine So that could actually be pretty cool. So we'll see we'll see how it goes Firefly aerospace systems. They're actually located in Cedar Park, Texas Which is Middle-ish of the most out of the country of the state Well, Texas thinks they're their own country sometimes We're at one point. Yeah in the Middle-ish of Texas. So yeah, that's funny I like it though. That's really cool. Oh, no dying Mike. All right moving right along Now let's talk about Red Dragon Excuse me. So NASA is exploring additional options for NASA or excuse me SpaceX's Red Dragon mission in 2018 Now NASA back in April already announced that they would provide technical support to SpaceX Excuse me and in return SpaceX would provide all the data that they would get during entry descent and landing of the Dragon capsule as it's going through the Martian atmosphere and using its rockets to try to land safely and There's two different offices within NASA's that are looking at ways to further collaborate with SpaceX The first one is the the office of space technology and what they're hoping to do is fly payloads on the Dragon capsule specifically in pseudo resource utilization Experiments where they would try to take the Martian soil or whatever sort of elements that they can get and try to extract water Or useful chemicals out of out of the Martian soil and Martian rock Hopefully to be able to get political waters for drinking or to be able to use it for rocket fuel So these are really interesting experiments that they are going to be doing several type of in-suitor resource Utilization experiments on future landers including the InSight lander, which is also launching in 2018 And with this the other office of NASA's planetary science office is Coordining with SpaceX on how to best do that both spacecraft both SpaceX's Red Dragon and the Mars InSight lander would need access to the deep space network in order to communicate with Earth especially during the critical phases of entry descent and landing and Since this is a really heavy payload the Dragon capsule especially if it has additional payloads on board There NASA is very interested in the data that they would get from that since they have their own plans of Landing very large payloads onto the surface of Mars So the more that they can collaborate the better and in the future They might even lead to contracts where they are even paying SpaceX to fly some of those payloads to Mars So this can only lead to more good things and is another example of further Collaboration between NASA and SpaceX and even if no payloads are ready to fly on SpaceX's first attempt when they try in 2018 NASA will have payloads ready or at least hopefully the funding funding provided in the next launch window So very good news and and hopefully we'll just see a lot more collaboration and more cool things happening Speaking of cool things happening on May 8th. I'm April 8th. Not May 8th SpaceX launched the beam module, which is the Bigelow expandable activity module up to the International Space Station Then on May 26th. They attempted to Inflate it and that did not work. So they tried again on May 28th And it worked and out on June 6th at 0847 coordinate Universal Time. This happened Boom, they've entered the beam module for the first time. That's astronaut Jeff Williams and Cosmodot Oleg skiri poshka. Hopefully I said that right. Yeah, there you go Entering the beam module for the first time now the wearing masks That's a normal procedure anytime you're have a visiting vehicle essentially and actually some inside shots inside of beam Which I thought were really really cool, right? Yeah, absolutely They're currently they're gonna collect air samples and begin downloading data from sensors on the dynamics of beams expansion itself Maybe try to figure out what happened that first time and this beam module will be up at the station for approximately two years Now they're not going to use it as an active living space. It's just kind of there for a test So they'll go in and out once in a while to grab those measurements But yeah, this is a kind of the the beginning of expandable habitats out in space Which is a pretty neat thing. This footage though looks like the beginning to a scary movie. It does kind of like Yeah, I don't know what happened on the space station. Sort of like see like a bloody hand It's still really cool looking sorry Expanded about twice its size. I don't have these numbers in front of me But I want to say it was and I'll have to use the US metrics because that's what I kind of remember I think it was like a eight feet Collapsed and then seven or 14 feet expanded or something like that Wide and then it was like what was it? I think seven feet I'm sorry deep and then seven feet wide and then a 10 feet wide when it was a fully expanded something wrong along those lines Those numbers are probably not yeah, it looks like, you know No space Mike off top of your head what what the Now I'm confused whether the numbers that I was thinking were in the metric or in the imperial system But I do remember that the like the final Extension that they had was over seven. I believe it was 72 inches. So yeah about seven feet So yeah, it was something it was around there something like that. Yeah, it looks like it's like the ultimate length of two average humans and about the Width of a human and a half human so two humans by one human Yeah, human and a human and a half a human and a half human and a half Space Mike talked to us about Blue Origin So Blue Origin has gotten a new contract from NASA to fly experiments on their suborbital vehicle The new Shepard rocket and capsule and this is part of the flight opportunities program that NASA has and with this under the Flight opportunities individual researchers interested in flying on New Shepard can work directly with the company to submit a proposal for NASA to have that Flight funded and the flight opportunities payloads would most likely be included on the company's continued Or rather ongoing series of test flights of the vehicle and once it's in commercial service Blue Origin expects to do dedicated research flights of the New Shepard separate from flights that they would do with commercial tourists and in the future Blue Origin does have plans to allow researchers to accompany their payloads and and you know have the whole human-tended element with them But under the NASA's flight opportunities program They would not have that part of this whole program at least until they they figure out The the contracts and all the legalese that would allow that to happen and they have talked about that back when Lori Garver was the Deputy administrator of NASA talked about that back in 2013 of having that but at the time they were still waiting on other vehicles and and I don't think a whole lot of people were thinking about Blue Origin's vehicle as a Potentially what might be the first vehicle to do some of these experiments on and that's kind of looking like what the what the case might be so Once that happens I'm sure NASA will take the steps that they need to in order to have that under the program But still good news and lots of cool Experiments will be able to fly especially ones that normally otherwise wouldn't have the funding to do so so very cool Alright, that's our space news for this week. We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back We've got Jared at the large dangerous rocket ships 35. What would you call that expo launch event? What do you what would you say meet up meet up meet up? There you go So stay tuned. We'll be right back and welcome back to tomorrow now before we head on over to Jared at the large dangerous rocket ships 35 like to give a huge shout out to all of the patrons of tomorrow Who've helped to make this specific segment of this episode happen These are people who've contributed $10 or more to this specific episode plus we've got our tomorrow producers These are people who've contributed $5 or more to this specific episode to find out how you can help crowdfund the shows of tomorrow Head on over to patreon.com Tmro we do our best to keep advertising off the screen and instead fund it with our patrons that we we don't always do that fully Successfully, but that's what we try to do. Alright, let's head on over to Jared at the large dangerous rocket ships 35 Jared How's this going out there? Let's go pretty good then it's a little bit windy out here and quite a lot to be and a little hot as well We're at Lucerne dry lake in Lucerne Valley, California We're having a great time out here playing with as it is named large dangerous rocket ships And I actually have Greg here with me One of the fine folks is out here working at what we call LDRS or as we will do on our show because we have actually a no after We call it large dangerous rocket ships. So Greg tell us a little bit about large dangerous rocket ships Well, I hope if we aren't allowed to use an acronym we can at least use air quotes around the dangerous part But that's tongue-in-cheek. We try to make everything as safe as possible here but we are all about rockets up to the very largest of the high-powered variety and you know I and a lot of my colleagues here are Original children of the space age we grew up flying rockets kids and we've never quite been We're having a great time out here. It's an opportunity this LDRS. Sorry, what are my pages rockets ships? It's an annual I at the National launch of the triple erotic re-association We're all members of the rocketry organization in California and so our opportunity and our honor to host LDRS this year and So we have visitors from all over the country as a matter of fact, we have some international visitors Some from Australia some from Argentina who've come to launch with us and sort of exchange rocket stories So specifically a lot of what happens out here is what's known as high-power rocketry, right? So what what is the difference from regular rocketry and high-power rocketry? Well, those of your viewers who All as to type rockets are familiar with the impulse classifications ABC and so on the total impulse Rocket one of the doubles with every letter designation When you get up to the level of high-power rocketry that would be H motors and above if you are Certified to fly H or I motors you're considered level one You have to have level two certification in order to fly J K and L motors Just for sort of calibration a J motor is up to 1280 Newton seconds. That's as compared with the little five and ten Newton second motors that You know the the small rockets use and then finally there's level three which takes you up through and and oh classification so up to 20,000 Newton seconds for an end motor and and so we've got we had some launches here this morning with others with L motors with K motors is really quite exciting And of course we we like all kinds of rockets. Yeah, we like the little ones as well Excellent. Um, so so high power rocketry isn't something That leads in a sense of people It's something that if essentially we wanted to go out and start our own little space program If you will you actually couldn't go out and maybe use high power rocketry as a means by which to do that I think that's very true. One of the things that I've been struck by is that during my involvement in high power rocketry over the last 20 years I Was really sort of not a big distinction. We've got people here who are professional aerospace people and we've also got folks who All walks of life Business medicine all kinds of careers but what unites them is a common interest and a common love of solving rocket problems and So as you say anyone it's accessible anyone who really wants to devote the time to learn the technology and to Sort of get in there and and build and fly. It's it's a great activity Excellent. Yeah, and and you are actually holding a high power rocket here I'm gonna come over here on this side of you so that I can show it off to everybody real quick So here is the rocket that you have got Greg Greg Can you tell us a little bit about this rocket and the things that come with this rocket? Sure? This is a sort of a nostalgia trip for me because this is a Upscale of a rocket that I built and flew when I was about 13 years old and So the original was only about a foot tall and flew on B or C motors This one is a is a high powered upscale of that rocket and I flew yesterday on an iMotor when about a half a mile went about 2,500 feet and So It's a great fun for me to break this out and fly it I flew it at the first LDRS that we had here at Lucerne Valley in 2001 And I thought just nostalgia alone required me to bring it out and fly it again So these these rockets are recoverable too, that's right That's right. They're all designed with a recovery system. You can see here if I disassemble it There's a recovery harness actually don't have the parachute in here, but when it separates the parachute if it's attached Some of the rockets like this one don't have electronic payloads in them But many of them do many of them have flight computers and control multiple events During the flight for example, we can have staged recovery in which we bring it down with a drogue shoot at Relatively high velocity and then lower it down the last few hundred feet on a larger mainshoot We've also got very sophisticated electronic electronic payloads that download data GPS that allows us to find these things when they land miles and miles away so there are lots of openings and opportunities for people with sort of technological Interests and applications. Excellent. All right. Well, thank you Greg for doing that I'm a call Rick on in now. Rick is another one of the people who is helping out here at LDRS and we going to talk a little bit because Rick you come from a Organization called the Tripoli rocketry as an association if I remember correctly, that's right. Yes, and They are different from the National Association of Rocketry, but they're also kind of the same. So there's two there's two big players They at a certain level and a group of people that wanted to move forward and so the Tripoli Rocketry Association grew out of that and codified and made the safety regulations for Rockets that were more powerful than the smallest hobby Rockets that Benar was into At the time this is you know going back to the 60s and Lucerne Dry Lake where we're at here has been Since the 60s. In fact several of our major players hobby and commercial space motors Here's an air attack provides a lot of our motors and has a business with Airspace companies for solid rocket motors that go into space I'll start it here. So they've learned their craft as they got bigger and bigger the Tripoli Rocketry Association was created and codified and They'd say the ways around the country to be able to fly these bigger Rockets and Nations kind of separated and its time has gone on safely and fun and so both organizations the same Organizations, so again the motors that we use which are all commercially manufactured are proven safe And if they find something where the motors don't work right They work with the manufacturers to get that corrected Both groups have some of their own testing facilities and they now recognize each other's motor certifications So that we know that we're going to get a safe and repeatable motor every time we fly Both organizations also take care of liar education So people can get into the hobby and have resources to learn how to do it safely How to do it fun how to use more power out of the bigger Rockets. Yes bigger is better To say I mean, you know, we can fly 12-inch Rockets and we love to do that And we have a lot of kids here that do that. But as we get bigger, we're talking 10 15 20 foot tall Rockets You know 6 8 10 12 15 inches in diameter 100s of pounds it lift off and here at Lucerne Dry Lake for this launch We're allowed call-in waivers with the FAA so we can clear the airspace and fly up to 19,000 feet Whoo, so this is some pretty heavy-duty stuff and as Motor classification you need to know more about it You can't use white glue and tape as you can in a tiny little Estes Rocket and expect it to hold up to an M motor, which is good for about three and a half seconds So I'm the the prefix of the club are Basically, and they were set up of Tripoli Rocketry Association So I make sure that we follow all the rules use all the Tripoli certified motors and I certify high power flyers So when you get into it H&I are smaller base turn I motor and if it comes back in the appropriate number of pieces I Can certify you you can you can then be allowed to buy as we go to JK and L Which are much more powerful than energetic motors. There is ejections safety laws federal regulations pertaining to using these materials in a safe manner and It requires that you pass a 50-question test and then you can do your flight and again You need to bring it back in the appropriate number of pieces sometimes these rockets come in two pieces two parachutes and things like that and Basically, the rocket has to come back and be fly up. It can be king bird twisted or a little bit But if something didn't work right the parachutes Didn't go right the bad news is you don't get certified. The good news is you get to do it again Yeah And we're here to provide as you go beyond that to the really big rockets We have a technical assistance panel where already experienced level three flyers, which are going to do the M&O motors They work with you and it's actually a project. You have to document it You have to build the rocket. You have to show the other dynamics do the calculations We're a center pressure center. It's stable. Is it going to go for Mach? Tronics what? Mach issues you have and you work with two TAP members have to stand then you do You can buy those so it's a little bit of a complex process But it's something that is done because We need to have that skill set Actually the trust with all the regulatory agencies we are self-taught we write the rules in conjunction with the government officials and They have seen that we have taken the lead and trying to work with them get them educated as to how we can do this safely and They have basically codified our rules into the national rules so that We can do this safely and make it simple for people to come out here and learn all that stuff's done You just have to learn about rockets. You have to just have to want to do rockets and we can make it happen for you Excellent. All right. Well, thank you, Rick. That was some fantastic I Some kind of incident of what actually goes in with it and John if you want to come on Just want to talk with you a little bit here since we're out here today Just enjoying this. So what is one of the reasons why LTRS or excuse me large dangerous rocket ships Is done out at Lucerne dry lake? Well, it's the for this particular launch. This is probably the best Open area in Southern California actually the Western United States for flying We have fairly high waiver here it Kind of clear in every direction. Yeah, that does help. We'll just show our viewers real quick Outside at the lake bed. You can see nothing over there nothing over there and Nothing over there just a dust devil at the moment. So yeah, it's a big open space All right, so when you come here, what are some of the things that you should be expecting as a Proof as a possible rocketeer Coming out to something like large dangerous rocket ships. Well, if you're just getting started in the the hobby You can expect just to wander around in awestruck of seeing things is the size that That they are. I'm a what's called a born-again rocketeer. I flew as a kid You know the little test this one. Mm-hmm, and then of course High school stuff got in the way and got back into it by walking through a hobby store picking up a magazine and Seeing these huge things and then I discovered that there was a club that flew out here called the rocketeer organization in California Immediately came out here and joined in The rest is history. Yeah, it was 18 years ago. Nice So, uh, do we have any launches set that may be happening in the next couple of minutes? Well, we're kind of hoping to we get a little bit of a breeze problem at the moment So we're waiting for that to kind of settle down. There's some rockets out on the pad. You can see Pretty far out on the other side of the range control quite a bit but and we're hoping to get back to flying here in a few minutes this This came up a little bit unexpectedly today. Yeah, it changed around. Yeah, it just kind of comes as it is So what to expect is for this particular lunch at this time of year a lot of heat. Yes Yes, lots of bring lots of water Lots of water but lots of big rockets and a lot of friendly people Yeah and just just to sort of summarize it to get involved with with space exploration because that's kind of what our shows all about It's all about getting people excited to get involved in spaceflight. How do you think high-power rocketry can contribute that to them? Oh, it gets you into the The mindset of the technology involved the engineering involved the science that is involved We have people that that do Are into into the professional spaceflight JPL and and the Jet Propulsion Auditorium sorry about that It's all good. So as far as if you want to equate it to human spaceflight. It's an avenue into The industry that will get you into hopefully Continuing an education To take you in that direction What we're out here for we do a lot of educating. Yeah now in terms of flying how often are you guys out here flying? We're out here once a month. We're here on the second weekend of every month in June though it went over this one we do a A launch called rock stock piece London Rockets. Yes, and that's in June and we do another one in November Same thing those are three-day launches and that's from Friday to Sunday and then we do Kids launch what we call it a kid launch where we bite youth groups and stuff out for a two-day launch in October called Okay, very very cool. All right. Well, thank you John. All right time and appreciate it. Of course you want to Thank everybody at the on the staff of large dangerous rocket ships 35 as well And in addition to that the rocketry organization of california and coming up at the end of your upcoming commercial break Comments specifically your comments We've always looked to the stars They guide us Give us comfort Help us find our way We see ourselves out there When we look up It inspires us We long for something we don't yet know We yearn to go there So we venture forth We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other thing Not because they are easy but because they are hard because that goes They'll serve to organize a mission of its own That body made here The eagle land landed On the map for man On the map for man The exploration of space will go ahead Whether we join in it or not Many think we stopped exploring But we know Our journey didn't end We've only just begun Come with us and explore tomorrow Welcome back to tomorrow. Now, before we get into comments from our last week's episode I'd like to give a huge shout out to all of the patrons of tomorrow We're going to have to make this specific segment of this episode happen These are the people who've contributed ten dollars or more to this specific episode We've also got our patreon producers who've contributed five dollars or more to this specific episode And we've also got access to our patreon plus subscribers These are people who've contributed two dollars and fifty cents or more Plus producers and premiere members will all get access to after dark As soon as it is available, but wait, there's more. We've also got our patrons of tomorrow These are people who've contributed between one penny and two dollars and forty nine cents That's right as little as one penny gets your name in the show If you'd like more information on how you can help crowdfund the shows tomorrow Head on over to patreon.com Slash t m r o speaking of comments There was a good comment from citizen 22 832 in the chat room who said Ben with was not so good and it was not an I'm sorry internet for the not so great Ben with But the hat width was perfect It was it was that was an epic hat that jared was wearing I'll also tweet out a picture that we have of um What what we uh, we were trying to communicate with jared and be like move closer to the door Your bandwidth is better there and so I got a screenshot of like how we were trying to communicate with him in real time I think we got to the end, but I'm sorry for the uh the wackiness in the beginning We'll get I think we'll get better at those remote shoots Some people were saying you should pre-recorded it, but I think that takes some of the fun out of live In addition, we got to figure out how we're going to do like live communication back to him So that we can ask questions in real time So you guys can ask your questions and we'll talk about all of that on our next patreon hangout Which will have coming up in july early july So stay tuned to your patreon account for that if to uh head head on over to patreon You have to be a patron a patron of the show in order to participate in the hangouts All right, let's go ahead and get started with some comments from last week's show capcom get me started Yeah, so uh last week, of course, we were talking about hashtag musk on mars Musky mars That's a great hashtag and uh Well, our first comment comes off of youtube this one comes from shamesh Who's i'm gonna pretend that's the way you pronounce that It says quote unquote elon time. He's simply using his native martian calendar conversion ratio one elon year He goes 1.8 earth years The thing is that actually works it really it does if you go back a lot of that timing works out of year to go Oh, we're supposed to launch, you know the next two years that ends up being almost four years I I think it what what it is is, um Yeah, elon is just so used to his own planet mars that he's on martian time. Yeah, exactly Wow So there's oh my god, shamesh if that's how you pronounce it pronounce it you win the show this week for that Congratulations, you've won the show. All right next up next one. It comes off of patreon from a john bernstead It says elon is a national treasure and should be given secret service protection. Well, I mean If you want i'm actually protected maybe something better than secret service, but uh Oh I'm sure he'll sell it for killer robots. I'm sure that'll be fine What makes you wait, isn't he afraid of those nevermind? Yeah, I mean what makes you think he doesn't have killer robots already protecting him Or maybe those shocks with lasers on their head Tesla got a transformers update, huh? Yeah, exactly Exactly All right next up next one comes off of reddit from a mr snarky answer Yes, great point hundreds of thousands of people and huge amounts of money spent on a poll with very high tolerance for risk This is how you get things done in eight years. This of course is actually in a response to another comment That was made on reddit, uh, but it was kind of a more concise way of putting all of it That's why I include this one instead um Because people were questioning like if space x can actually get to mars in eight years Uh, but and everyone of course always points back to apollo. So a little bit different Circumstances going on there different but the same but different but the same but different, right? So, I mean, yeah, obviously the destination is different and it's actually quite a bit harder than the moon But um, you know, uh, we're starting with a lot larger base of information and technological progress than we had Um with the moon, right? I mean consider the computers I had to go to the moon versus what you have in your iphone now. So, right? So what we're able to do is just vastly superior to what we could do in the 60s and 70s So, uh, yeah, but it doesn't doesn't mean this any less hard Right, but uh, we just I think ultimately it's we just have to have the will to go We have to decide that this is a thing that is important to us and we're going to go And clearly elon has made that decision and the the question is does he have enough people behind him That have made that decision with him to enable him to do that Yeah, all right. All right. Next up next by the way, that should have been mr. Snarky question As opposed to mr I didn't choose the name man Mr. Snarky answer. There you go This next one comes also off of reddit from street wind saying I don't believe that the schedule elon must present It is overly realistic But on the other hand, I think it's useful to present that schedule if the rule of thumb is In project management says the early project is delayed from its original target Then the worst thing you can do is set the original target back really far, you know Might as well target something a little less far out and then work with whatever delays inevitably surface Yeah, the problem is if you end up delaying like forever, you end up with and i'm sorry I'm sorry because I love the company you end up with a virgin galactic scenario Where where if then it just becomes a butt of a joke essentially, you know, you're just six months away So, uh, you know, I they will fly and you know, I you know, there's certainly not a joke But you just you don't want to have that ever sliding timeline. That's a bad thing Well, yeah, but I think the point in that this person was trying to make is is that yeah, you don't But at the same time and we've talked about that before is that it's hard for humans to really grasp You know the concept of oh this will be done in the next 30 years like that's that's too It's too far out. It's too. Yes, that's true Right like you want to have an end goal You want to see that light at the end of the tunnel and about 10 years is a good Sort of that's about the maximum. I think right the maximum is about one decade You can't people have a hard time thinking beyond that even that whether or not realistic or not I guess is but but if it's not so even swift kiwi 1990 says does that mean virgin galactic is in Pluto years Right because that's what ends up happening Which by the way funny comment But that's what ends up happening is if you can't make those timelines consistently So you I guess you're allowed to miss them once in a while But you can't be consistently missing them by years and years and years That's not to say that um spacex hasn't done that either right they've done that It's just this is this seems to be a bad habit that the industry is in and yeah I don't actually know how to fix it Because it's it's this the stuff's hard I feel like something too that is kind of the beauty of this situation is unlike some sort of Self-imposed goal for when they might have something operational like in the case of virgin galactic In the case of spacex their goal is to get to mars during launch windows And so if they don't make one goal then they have two years to make it and if they consistently miss You know two or three launch windows in a row then yeah people probably wouldn't have any confidence in that anymore But if they miss one launch window, it's okay They have two extra years to get whatever system that they were working on that Just wasn't quite ready to to fine tune that and tweak everything to the point where it would be You know they would have even more confidence in it in the next launch window So that repeatable launch window kind of helps like set the tone of of when it might happen I guess it's also a little bit different and closer to apollo in that what they'll do As ilan has said he wants to create a how did he word it in the conference a Like a constant stream every launch window spacex is going to mars. He had a term for it I don't know what it was But basically, you know every two years they're going to mars Well, even if they don't send humans if every two years spacex is going to mars It keeps you on the radar, right? So it's like okay. Well, they can at least get there You know and and maybe at first almost like a cargo service There you go. I think that's what he referred. Did he refer to as a cargo service? I don't remember what he called it in the in the in the conference Um, and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but um I can't remember either. Yeah, he had a specific term for it. I don't remember what it was but basically The idea that you know every two years they'll start going to mars and and scientists can start counting on spacex going to mars every two years Every time the window opens really And then you know, they'll just keep doing bigger and bigger things each time much like mercury gemini apollo Where it was a bigger bigger bigger thing and you could saw this iterative stepping process throughout the 10 years as opposed to You see nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing. Okay. Now we're going to mars, right? So it's a very different thing You know what I mean? Yeah, all right So this next comment comes off of our tomorrow site From side right. Uh, this is actually a much longer comment. We cut down a little bit and kind of took some pieces right out of the middle But uh, yeah, this is just a piece in the middle and it was like three times as long Anyway, uh, so the musk was very insistent on the 26 month periodic windows And I can see why he would plan to send a test flight then Let's see waste a very valuable window to me It's more interesting that he's definitely setting up a bi-yearly trips to mars Whether with cargo or humans as a regular service suddenly mars 1 doesn't seem so hopeless anymore But why would you go mars 1 if space x is creating a round trip service? Well, I mean, maybe he's even saying or she I suppose is saying that uh, the mars 1 concept Is not as crazy pants or as you know hopeless anymore the concept itself is Okay Next up I thought it was interesting fine. Uh next one comes off of you too Fine, uh from uh, shan, uh All right, internet, how do you pronounce it? Sbroggia? Sbroggia Sbroggia spray. Yeah, sorry for mispronouncing your name, dude. Sean. Yeah, shan. I'm sorry Sean in the comments for the next show. Give us a phonetic uh pronunciation of your last name Sbroggia All right, anyhow, yeah, we're gonna go with that Uh says the biggest thing to me about a mars mission is landing all the separate pieces at the exact same place On mars. I don't know that you need to do that. Uh, so for a couple of things with that first SpaceX has consistently been able to land their rocket on the drone ship, right, which is Pin pointing a landing on the planet on earth already So doing that same thing on a planet doesn't seem like it would be that much harder I could be misspeaking but you know, it it seems like spacex has already figured pinpoint landing out Even so it doesn't have to ball be in the exact same place It has to be within a reasonable distance of the location in which you are at Right, so you have to have it close enough where you can get to it, but not on top of your camp So, uh, well Yeah, no, I mean that's fair. That is if you plan this correctly each time you land You can actually start making your your base camp larger and larger and larger and spreading it out And then the first settlers will probably have to end up building systems in between these different landing Zones landing sites, whatever it is To be able to move back and forth whatever is landed and then hopefully use That landing area whatever is left over from the landing area because some of it's probably going to lift off again for You know just permanent settlement type stuff But you know, again, maybe they'll just build a landing zone where they'll just land the rocket offload it Send it back up land a rocket offload it send it back up. Who knows? I have no idea I truly have no idea, right? So don't call me and I have no idea Right, there are two those are two completely different ways to go about us essentially the same What do you think they'll do mike? Well, I mean even with space x and nasa, you know Even though they might have a whole lot of different plans until we're actually there trying to do this stuff That's what's going to finalize whatever plans on how that might happen And I mean as long as you can get into orbit around mars and have enough fuel to you know Change your inclination as you need to you know, even if you you know miss it the first time You just need to wait another orbit until you're in the right position in order to de-orbit and have that pinpoint landing So as long as you have fuel and you're in orbit you can do pinpoint landings pretty easily If you especially if you already have a signal a very strong signal of where your base is So they could do a lot of stuff like that and I think that in the beginning They'll land things you know close by to each other to assemble the different pieces of a base But I think depending on the type of vehicles like with uh with humans, especially with whatever vehicle might be able to You know descend safely and get back into orbit safely that probably would have some type of landing zone and and Kind of like a like customs almost offloading center where people would first get acclimated and everything like that so But again until we're actually there doing this stuff We're not going to know exactly for sure what we're going to need to do in order to have some of these ideas Become realities. That's fair. We don't know it's it's too early in the process still Even the experts. Yeah. Yeah. Good comment from the chat room. K. McCoy says we landed Apollo mission within walking distance of another spacecraft in 1970 I think you figure this part out. Yeah, I mean that's a good point We've had this pinpoint landing precision accuracy since the 70s. We've also done it on mars with pathfinder Curiosity spirit curiosity opportunity all of these msl Uh They had predetermined landing sites that we wanted to get into and there was like a A reasonable like a margin of error that they were able to get it down to to a specific size And for each lander it was smaller and smaller and smaller of what area it would actually land in Yeah, if you're only like a mile or two off, that's not that's not that big a deal You're still yeah, I don't know. Yep. All right. That's our show for this week There is actually one more comment that we're going to get to in after dark Which we're not going to do on our main show due to language, but it is hilarious And so we're going to cover that up next for those of you watching live after dark is up next If you're a patreon plus subscriber or above it will be available as soon as we post it online for everyone else It'll be available in about four weeks. Thank you so much for watching. We'll see you next week