 I want to talk about the H3 controversy, scandal, cancellation, if you will. I have stated before that I am one of the biggest H3 simps on the internet. H3 podcast, Ethan and Ela Klein, have consistently been people who I really enjoy listening to over the years, and I feel like they've only gotten better. And so there was this episode where he said something with a caller, and we'll get into the specifics here, and his fans thought it was homophobic. He apologized. You'd think that from there it'd be over. But apparently the scandal is still kind of an ongoing phenomenon. So we're going to kind of work backwards because I want to look at what Hassan says here because Hassan is coming out to defend Ethan Klein here. And what Hassan says here I think is basically he hit the nail on the head. So let's listen first. This isn't too far. It's too much. Sorry, Gary stands. Today we have no sponsors because I am an existential threat to gay rights and all progress. So of course our wonderful fans have taken upon themselves to rid of our sponsors and to have them sponsor or not to support us. So we are, I'm very, you know. So he says that his fans wrote in to these sponsors. I kind of have a conspiracy theory about this. So remember when him and Keemstar like at the height of their beef, Keemstar had a lot of sponsorships that basically bailed out and he blamed H3 for it. My theory is that Keemstar like he's kind of behind this and maybe he instructed his fans perhaps covertly to call Ethan's sponsors and get them to cancel. I'm not sure either way, but assuming that it really is a case of Ethan's own fans calling the sponsors to get them to cancel, based on what I've seen, I think that is extremely fucked up. You know, again, like I do this show with no sponsors, but I think that like trying to go out of your way to punish Ethan for making a mistake, fessing up to it in and then apologizing. I feel like that just, that's so counterproductive that if this is really just his own audience, it's not okay, right? But I'll let him finish what he's saying here. I'll just say this. It's a good, I'm very thankful to our members. It makes this show kind of bulletproof to stuff like this, even though it's painful and emotionally, it just doesn't, it's just painful that, you know, people would do that. There it is. And you know, the other thing is like, you like, you expect a little more of the sponsors in a way, but I get it there is, you know, it's just transactional for them. But you know, I feel like I put so much into the good, our good partners and it's kind of crazy when they just drop you like a bag of dirt one over some bullshit. Hassan says, right-wingers will always keep winning. We treat people trying to learn and do better worse than we do right-wingers. We have no power over the system slanted in their favor. This kind of shit is about feeling control and power. It's not about progress or justice. Now this is assuming that this is Ethan's own audience turning on him and it's not a bunch of right-wingers who are trying to get his sponsors to withdraw to kind of prove a point because that's kind of what this person is doing here. They're kind of loving this. It looks like Ethan didn't listen to Jordan Peterson's warning about cancer culture, you reap what you sow. And when Ethan took down or I think maybe he unlisted his interviews with Jordan Peterson, Jordan Peterson claimed he got canceled and was like, well, Ethan, you reap what you sow, I should do the Jordan Peterson voice. You reap what you sow, Ethan, cancer culture will come for you. Like I'm paraphrasing. That's kind of what Jordan Peterson said, except that's such a stupid statement because of how non-falsifiable it is. First and foremost, I don't think that what Ethan did in unlisting videos with Jordan Peterson is tantamount to cancel culture. What cancel culture really is an actuality is you getting fired from your job for doing something, for making a social media post. I mean, anything can be cancel culture, right? At some point, Ethan was going to say something that offended some signs, some fans. So, you know, Jordan Peterson saying that it's not like he was proven right. Like it's impossible to not prove that because if you say, oh, well, you're doing cancel culture and you're going to get canceled. I mean, yeah, you're going to piss people off. I'm going to piss people off. So you could say the same thing about me. Somebody can apply that to me as well. Oh, well, Mike, you engage in cancel culture. I've been accused of this just wait until you get canceled and then people have done the same thing to me. So it's non-falsifiable and it's not a real argument, right? So whether or not this is warranted, I don't think that this is warranted. I think this is wrong. But let's go back to where the controversy started. And I'm going to use this Philip DeFranco video because I didn't get to see that actual episode of the podcast. I usually watch them all, but I've been playing Horizon Forbidden West. So, you know, I usually podcast while I game didn't have a chance to watch it. So he, I hope, does an adequate job of showing the controversy right here. Oh, keeping with the theme of something you did online, potentially having a negative effect on your real life. We should talk about the latest creator controversy and apology and that because you had the massive YouTuber and podcaster, Ethan Klein, coming under fire for something he did with James Charles. James recently uploaded a video about makeup on Amazon and in it, you can see adult diapers in the buy again section of James's Amazon homepage. But even then speculating, right? Is it a medical condition? Maybe for an older relative, but then quickly making a joke about James's sexuality that was like small size, like twink size. He has some anal leaking. Now we were saying, well, if he's getting blasted in that hard enough, potentially you may need to wear a diaper. Maybe he's just got railed real hard the night before or maybe it's for one. Maybe it's for his boy, his boyfriend. With a meeting later, running an audience poll about why James bought these diapers and he made power bottom one of the options. And even immediately in the live chat, people started correcting him on the terminology of power bottom, with a listener named Matt even calling in to correct him and kind of call him out, not just on the way that Ethan used the terms top and bottom, but also the stereotypes. So it doesn't just have to do with how he used them while referring to James Charles, but Ethan's use of these terms in general. I know often you feel inclined to describe someone where you think they might be a bottom. And I think that that's often a misconception that like bottoms may be passive or the. Well, I just mean that he wants to partner. I just mean that he likes to take it up the butt. Correct. And but how can you know that about someone? Matt's saying that Ethan throws these words out in stereotypical ways and adding that you can't just tell who is a top or a bottom to which Ethan says. You find it offensive if I say by being like, oh, he's he's probably a bottom. Is that the problem to make? Absolutely. Or arguing that again, I agree with all these. I agree with this caller here. And I think that this probably wasn't necessarily the attempt, the intent of Ethan. But, you know, when you're joking about these things, this idea is, oh, well, some gays are better because they're less gay. And the less gay you are, the more valuable you are. And less cringe you are, something like that. So, you know, Ethan, he jokes about things like this body parts. He talks about wiping his ass and shit. So he's a very crass person. So to him, just like since he's already an ally and LGBTQ plus affirming, he probably didn't necessarily think. And so like if he said this and then you just leave it at that, you know, then I would take issue with that. But he said something that was not good. It was, you know, very insensitive and, you know, not OK, right? But he apologized and that's what's important, right? Like nobody's perfect. And if you're straight, then you don't necessarily know what will and won't be acceptable for gay people, right? So what matters is, you know, you grow and you have these conversations. And Ethan is a smart enough person to realize that, yeah, I fucked up and he apologized. And that's what I think is really important. That's what matters the most. I've had these conversations with my family and friends, you know, sometimes they'll they'll fuck up. But what matters is that I know that they are allies. I know that deep down they would fight for me. And that's really what matters to me. So, you know, Ethan saying something like this, you know, hearing him say this as a fan of the show, even I think, oh, that's a big yikes. But I think that he did the right thing by apologizing and, you know, explaining how, yeah, I didn't know about this. I didn't know that that's the way that it was perceived. And I don't expect him to know, right? Because he's straight. But just the fact that he's trying to learn, I think in and of itself is really important, right? A lot of people, when they get corrected on something, a lot of times they'll become defensive. And perhaps like this went downhill further because Ethan got a little bit defensive, Dan did too. But at the end of the day, they slept on it, they reflected and they acknowledged that this wasn't this wasn't necessarily my best take. And perhaps I could do better as an LGBTQ plus ally, just saying I'm an ally maybe isn't enough. Perhaps I should understand these things a little bit better. So, you know, I think that he handled this good. It's just one of those things where it's like, OK, I'm still learning. We move on. I think that the overly punishing nature of the audience, if this is the audience, is counterproductive because, you know, it one makes people think, oh, well, I don't want to say anything about gay people. I want to support them because even when you support them, they fucking come after you. Like I don't want that to be the takeaway. And I'm afraid that this will be the takeaway. The takeaway will be, oh, well, cancel culture is so bad that you can't even joke about gay people. And they'll come after you. Look at Ethan Klein. He's an ally. They came after him. So I mean, like the right, regardless of who did this, they're going to make an example out of this. And I think that that's bad. I think that as a gay person, what Ethan did here, you know, he he owned up to it and he apologized. That should be the end of the story. But, you know, when it comes to social media and when you have a lot of bad actors who try to make examples out of good people, then, you know, it just end up it ends up devolving further. But I'll finish this off here. So that's when it comes to femininity and masculinity. Saying this term implies some sort of level of passiveness and using it in these ways is not productive. Ethan then starts to ask if Matt is a top or a bottom, but he declines to answer and Ethan eventually says, can I guess what is your preference? You can. Will you tell me if it's right, if I guess right? No, even then joking that he can already tell which one Matt is, which Matt says he just hopes that Ethan has learned and understands. It doesn't appear that that ship has docked for Ethan. To be honest, I don't really. I'm trying, but I don't, I don't, I mean, I get it. And then closing the show by he and parts of his team dismissing the criticisms. Of course you were right. And honestly, just so over these people. Shut the fuck up. Shut up. I mean, I was just trying to make the call fun. Yes. It's a entertaining show. Shut the fuck up. Someone says, I don't know what's so disappointing. Someone said, I don't grow up. Jesus Christ, Brian Dan. I don't know what's up with Ethan today, but something's off. Bad vibes this episode. Shut the fuck up. Unsubscribe. Go away. I think this with peace and love, you might be too sensitive to watch this show. Yep. And in the live chat, of course, you had people laughing at Ethan, but others sticking up for Matt, saying Ethan shouldn't have asked about his sex life. In the comments, you had people saying things like, Matt tried to explain that Ethan would not register anything. Arguing that it was cringe worthy, how Ethan never let up and it was just uncomfortable to listen to. Arguing that Matt was just trying to explain that when you throw that term around, it can be an insulting way to belittle someone. If you go on Twitter, adding to the conversation, saying things like, why is Ethan Klein and capable of making his disgust of James Charles known without making it homophobic? James Charles is an evil person, but Ethan Klein doesn't get to use him as a vehicle to mock us. Hurts to hear him use gay stereotypes, mock gay men for having anal sex, demanded no intimate details about a fan's sex life, tell fans to shut up when they try to educate him. Hey, we also saw our fair share of fans and people saying, you know, people these days are just too easily offended, but ultimately all this backlash resulted in Ethan apologizing. Okay, so that's where we will stop and I'll pick it up from there, basically. Thank you so much. Philip DeFranco, he's our H3 correspondent. But yeah, so the thing, if I heard anyone joking about trying to poke fun at gay people and they're the butt of the joke, where it's like, LOL, you're gay, that's funny, or LOL, you're a bottom, that's effeminate, that's bad, you're less manly, then I would probably draw comparisons to straight people. Like, would you ask a straight couple, hey, do you guys do anal? Like who goes down on who more? Like you wouldn't necessarily ask these intimate questions to straight couples, but gay people, because it's still somewhat elusive in society and because these things aren't discussed. Sometimes straight people, even if they mean well, they ask questions that are a little bit fucked up. Like for example, like my family have asked me, oh well, who's the man of the relationship between me and my husband? And the answer is always, I mean, we're both men, so I don't know how to answer that question. So you just have to educate them. But the thing about Ethan Klein is that he would ask these crass questions to straight people as well. Like he always pushes the boundaries and the limit. Again, he shares way, way too much information oftentimes, there was an ongoing debate throughout one arc of the podcast where he was talking about wiping your ass from front to back or back to front. So he's known for these types of things. So I think that he just probably assumed, well, because I always ask these questions, it's not different. Like I'm gonna treat everyone equal, regardless if you're gay or not. So I'm gonna ask these questions, are you a top or a bottom? That's the way that I saw it, that was my perception anyways, as a longtime fan of the show. But I think that what matters is that regardless of what he said and what was said on the show, this happened. He apologized. And that is really important to me because again, a lot of people, they get defensive and they think, well, fuck gay people, okay? If I can't even joke about you, fuck you. I hate gay people, I'm homophobic now. Like they wouldn't say this out loud, right? But I feel like, you know, this is the perception sometimes where like people around, like my family, they've told me and I'm not, I'm like, my humor is very edgy and it takes a lot to offend me but my own family members will say like, oh, well, I don't wanna offend you by saying this. When it's like, when have I ever been offended by something like, it depends on how fucked up what you are about to say is, you know, if you preface it by saying, I don't wanna offend you then usually you're gonna say some fucked up shit. But I mean, it just depends on your intent, right? Like you can say something that's homophobic but if you don't mean it to be that way then I can understand if you explain your position. And this is what Ethan said here. To my LGBTQ plus fans, I'm sorry for comments on today's show, the sexualization of gay men and the grouping of tops and bottoms is a stereotype that I will be trying to unlearn apologies to the caller too who I shouldn't have pressed inappropriately. I hope you guys know I always mean well. And this is it, we do. Like I've watched the show long enough to where I understand that he means well. Having the context, knowing that he, he doesn't just do like edgy humor. Like he talks about like super gross things like shit. Like I think that a couple of weeks ago when he was sick, I think they were worried that he had seeded it for something like he literally posted a picture of his shit on the subreddit. So like he's not like against posting these really intimate details. So I get where he's coming from. It was a bad take, it was a bad look, but he apologized. For me, I think that is enough. Now he talked about this on the following episode of the show. And I wanted to share a little bit of that where he shares what happened and then he apologizes on camera as well but explains this position and kind of defends himself because I think that people did take it too far in calling him homophobic when he's not homophobic, right? I mean, you could say things that are fucked up and insensitive and homophobic things but really what matters is like the context, the history. I think all of this is important to take into account. Let's say I made a joke that James Charles was wearing a diaper because he's a bottom. That I guess made people angry and then I'll call or called in to explain why that whole thing is offensive and I made insensitive remarks and jokes to him. They explained to me that I should probably apologize and explained why and I thought that I understood. So this is my heartfelt apology, which I'll read to you now after consulting with people I trust who I value their judgment. To my LGBTQ plus fans, I'm very sorry for comments on today's show, the sexualization of gay men and grouping of tops and bottoms as a stereotype that I'll be trying to unlearn. And apologies to the caller too who I shouldn't have pressed inappropriately. I hope you guys know I always mean well. So that's my apology. Some people accepted, some people don't. That's fine. Keemstar of course has my number. Keemstar a great ally to the LGBTQ plus. Absolutely. You know, this man has always been on the right side of things. So Keemstar is addressing his one LGBTQ fan. He says to my LGBTQ plus fans, he's not sorry, just sorry he got caught. See this is why it leads me to believe that Keemstar was behind the sponsorships because Keemstar is notoriously petty and he was butthurt that the drama between him and Ethan when Ethan exposed him back in like 2019, 2020 led to him losing sponsors. So I feel like Keem has gotta somehow be behind this or maybe he like directed his fans or maybe he has the same sponsors, has contacts. Like it's a conspiracy theory. It's all speculation, right? But this is why I have the feeling that it wasn't Ethan's own fans because like I saw, like I read the responses to Ethan apologizing and a lot of them are like, look, I'm gay, it was a bad tag, but we appreciate you Papa bless, right? Like it wasn't overall like, oh, well, fuck you, fuck you. You know, as a gay person, like you have to understand that people are imperfect. Like if I held people to such a high standard that if they ever fucked up once, I would, you know, not talk to them ever again. I'd have like no friends or family, right? It's part of the process, right? So gay people, they, I think inherently most of the time have thick skin contrary to popular belief because a lot of people will say things that are fucked up or they'll, you know, they'll do microaggressions for lack of a better word, not to sound like an S-J-W, but it's true, right? They'll make these comments about how, oh, well, I accept you because I hate the sin, not the sinner when that's an inherently fucked up thing to say. So, you know, we have to live with imperfect allies but we appreciate the intent, the hearts of people. So that's what, that's my, that's my take. I think Keem's behind it, but who knows, right? Still either way, I feel like Ethan, you know, I appreciate him apologizing and it means a lot to me. I'm doing my best here, guys. Like y'all can't fuck, I'm getting like woke whiplash and it's like last week or with the Will Smith thing or there was people like, well, sometimes the people take it too far, but this time it's right. This time it's serious or last time it's fucking serious. And it's like, you got, you guys got to fucking like understand how intense it feels on this side when every week people are whipping it, turning something we said into evidence that we are intolerant pieces of shit, you know? Or it's always like, oh, the veil is down. I always knew they were racist homophobes. Oh, we can't pretend now to be woke and all this shit. And whoever's saying this, like, they've got to be bad faith, right? If anyone's saying that, I think there's a lot of right wingers who liked Ethan because he kind of did edgy like anti-SJW content to an extent, like he wasn't an anti-SJW YouTuber by any means, but, you know, he did some videos criticizing overly woke people. So the right kind of felt like they lost one. Ethan was the one that got away. So I feel like a lot of this is bad faith and I'm just trying to like, confirm that Ethan was wrong to be a woke, to go woke, right? And I'm gonna show him, go broke. So we'll go after your sponsors. A lot of this is bad faith, in my opinion. And Dan is fucking sick of that shit. And understandably, and we all are. So his snap judgment is like, you know, fuck you guys, just shut up. And, you know, people are calling me homophobic. Dan knows I'm not homophobic, okay? He's standing up for me, which he's being a good friend and a good supporter. So, you know, so I totally understand Dan's reaction to say, you know, just shut the fuck up and unsubscribe, which, you know, obviously he was heated at the moment. But, too heated, understandably, too heated, okay? But understandably. Just the fact that they're showing humility is something that's so nice to see because oftentimes you have people who feel as if they can never fuck up, right? But we're all human beings, we make mistakes. So just saying, like, I got too heated. Like, can you imagine Stephen Crowder or fucking Tim Pool ever actually having this level of integrity and saying, yeah, you know what? Maybe I was wrong and, you know, I listened to people who told me otherwise. I was a little bit too heated, I reflected. Like, you never see this. So that's why I appreciate it and that's why I feel like I'm good. I'm not mad at Ethan for this. He apologized, he did what he needed to. No, it's not. Sometimes it just doesn't feel reasonable with the woke whiplash we get. And I understand. Look, and there's always gonna be outliers as well. Like, sure, if you fuck up, then there's gonna be some people that's like, you know what, I don't accept the apology. I reject it. I'm never gonna accept you again. I'm done with you. And that's just gonna be something that happens if you're big enough. There's always going to be people on the margins who aren't going to accept that. But what matters is the majority of people understand that you had a bad take and apologized for it and human beings are imperfect, so it's okay. It's okay. We know you're an ally. Like, I appreciate how Ethan Klein has defended LGBTQ plus people. I love that. I think it's great. So he's imperfect. I'm imperfect. We're all imperfect. What matters is that we're constantly trying to do better and improve. But nobody's gonna get it right 100% of the time. We're always going to fuck up from time to time. And that's okay. It's part of the human experience. There's an infinite amount of things on this planet to learn that you won't be able to learn with your short time on this rock. What matters though is that we always try to build each other up, not break each other down. And I feel like Ethan is one of those few good people on the internet who actually tries to build people up with the exception of Keemstar. He wants to rip that motherfucker's heart out. But that's to be understood because Keemstar is a piece of shit. I'm sorry, but me and Dan both know we're not homophobic, okay? And I just refused. I refuse that title. I do outright. He should. Like anyone who's saying, you know, you're a homophobe after he apologized. I mean, you have to be reasonable. You know, again, I worry that people are going to see this and think, ha ha, I told you that these woke sculls are gonna cancel everyone. Like I don't want them to make an example out of this situation, but bad faith actors will. I am glad that you acknowledge though that, you know, especially the thing with the caller and in pushing him when he had established a boundary. I didn't like that that happened either. And I'm glad that you see that that was too far and that you accept that. The other criticism that I have been getting, which is really the reason that I was like, you know what, fuck this whole Twitter thing, is that I, at one point during the show was mocking the caller's lisp. I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. That did not happen. That did not happen. And if you're saying that happened, you are either dumb or just being disingenuous. I don't know what you're talking about. There was a moment. People said you were mocking. Yeah, there was a... He made like a voice, like kind of mimicking, I don't know if it was the caller or someone in the comment section. What I interpreted that as is like, he was making fun of the person or the people in the comment section and he's made this voice before. So it wasn't like an anti-yea voice. It was more like a valley girl type voice. This one he gets a total pass for. He was not trying to be homophobic. Oh, late in the show, when we were talking about all, somebody had left a, I believe it was after somebody left a super chat telling us that we suck or whatever. And I think I did a voice that was more so just like a annoying whiner voice. Yeah, yeah, that's the way I interpreted it. That's the way I always interpret his voice. He's done the voice before. So 100% Dan gets a pass. Dan is a good person. Ethan is a good person. These are good people here. I was mocking and somehow people connected that to me mocking the caller's list, which the caller happened like two hours prior to that. So it's really a leap to think that I was referencing that. And that was really upsetting to me because I would never fucking do that. And again, that just, that does not feel like people are being genuine. I don't know how you can watch that and make that conclusion. If it came across that way to people and you genuinely thought that's what I was doing, I apologize that that was not my intent by any means. Well, part of my problem, Dan, is that people are making, turning it and making a lot of bad faith arguments that are just total bullshit. Right. And that's the thing, right? There's always going to be bad faith actors that really take these situations and they make them exponentially worse. And it's hard to not get in your own head about this, from Ethan's point of view, he probably thinks like, come on, like I press everyone. I ask inappropriate questions about people's body parts regardless of who they are. And so for my audience to think this of me, that's fucked up when I've time and again spoken out in favor of LGBTQ rights. Now they're calling me a homophobe. I mean, I can't win. Like I understand that feeling, right? Like we've, if you're on the internet, at some point you've gotten that for sure. We're going to make mistakes. Our allies are going to make mistakes. People are going to fuck up. We're all human beings. Just keep plugging away and making the world a better place. Right the wrongs when you do them and then enjoy life. Peace and love, right? That's what the shit is all about. Ethan Klein is a good person. Dan is a good person. I love H3. Not canceled in my book. I will continue to tune in and support them by Teddy Fresh and shit like that. Yeah, so I'll leave that there. Mike is a total shitless. Shitless. Once he started chilling for the DNC, I stopped watching. So I definitely won't be hitting the subscriber or turning on notifications by clicking the bell. No way. It's very sad, I know.