 Hi there. So what you're about to watch is a interview I did with Lauren Israel. Lauren's known for working with groups like Jimmy World, Plain White Teas, Rock Kills Kid, Sugar Colt, Neon Trees. And we're going to talk about all of that. But most of what we're going to talk about is his coaching program for artists and what he sees artists needing to do to make great music. So without further ado, let's get into this interview. Why don't you start off and tell us how you got here at Subhavad, your long interesting career. So the audience understands your perspective. Awesome. Well, I started playing music when I was about 15, 16 years old. Right after skateboarding a lot, I was skateboarding and all the older kids got into punk rock and they wouldn't necessarily let you skate the pools or the parks unless they cut your hair and dyed it and they charged you five bucks. The older people like Dwayne Peters literally wouldn't let you skate. I don't know if anyone here knows the master of disaster, Dwayne Peters. I love U.S. bombs. So you go. So do I. So by virtue of skateboarding, they always used to play punk rock. And I was very, very young, like 14, 13 years old and these guys were a little bit older, maybe three to five years older. And all of a sudden my situation changed or my, I guess I got older and I got really excited about that kind of music. And I had about 16 started, I think I bought my first record. I think it was a Nick Lowe record. And then I bought, oh my God, a 999 record. And I remember having kids in the neighborhood have to take us to the local record stores because none of our parents. I mean, we had latchkey on it. None of our parents were around. Okay. So we started a band. None of us knew how to play. And we played backyard parties and a couple of clubs and we couldn't even get into the clubs. I mean, it was like 1979, 80, 81. We were very young. And then I started to sort of get more experienced at my at my guitar. I played guitar and played other instruments while I was in school. And then one of the bands I was in got a record deal and a publishing deal. And then the lead singer decided that he he was just a drug addict. And I didn't want to be associated. I didn't want to do that. I thought about going back to school. I could never ever ditch music. I was always going out to see shows. I was always going out to be a scene stir because that's what I really love doing. So college was extraordinarily difficult for me. I had three jobs. I was putting myself to school. One day, this guy saw me at clubs and he said, have you seen or heard any good bands? Because he saw me all the time. He said, yeah, I have. Check out this band or this band. Those couple of bands became super, super big. And so now this guy who would casually ask me what's up was now up my ass. He was like constantly reaching out to me, constantly calling me. I turned that into a internship at Capital Records. I spent about 15 years at Capital Records in various capacities of A&R from a lowly intern for three years to a VP of A&R. But when I started, Jesse, I thought I needed to learn how to communicate A, which is the artist or the voice and R, the repertoire or the song. So I just started producing bands and artists. That's what I did. I thought that that that's a skill I needed to learn in order to be a great A&R person. And so I've been doing, producing and developing emerging talent for well over 20 years. And that's where I am today is taking emerging talent and helping them be hugely successful. But above all, cut the amount of time they are in terms of if it takes you 10 years to be successful, cut it down to three to five and be to repeat it, to repeat the success. And that's critical. OK, so what goes into cutting down that time? I think it comes down to discipline, being prolific and adapting. OK. You must be prolific. If you are not prolific, if you don't write consistently, you're not going to have the space and time in order to actually get the combination of timing, craft and luck and timing. You must be disciplined. There is a discipline to writing songs at the very highest level. You can call it a structure. You can call it a formula. I like to call it a discipline or a craft. And then finally, you've got to adapt. You've got to learn how to understand what's in front of you, what's behind you and what's in the future in order to to have an audience that is relating to you. That's understanding what you're doing. That's listening. That's feeling. That's that's getting what you're doing. Totally agreed on all this. So when you're talking about being prolific, I know. So I just did this video essay on Rick Rubin and, you know, he talks a lot about that he has artists write two and a half records for every one he writes. Get more into what that looks like. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm going to tell you very, very specifically if you are not writing at least one or two songs every week, now, let me let me say this. In my program, I asked people, you don't need to write the whole song. Just write the first version chorus. Yep. Yep. Then if it's got anything, let's dig in. Let's get deep. Let's let's work on it. But if it's not, if it's so out of bounds, let's move on. That way I'm helping you save time. So let me let me repeat that. Let me explain to you and everyone who knows being prolific means at least one or two songs every week. Yeah, I'd agree. Like what I say in my book on creativity is like I like to call those skeletons and you decide if you're going to actually go forward and put the skin on the skeleton and actually make it a living, breathing thing after you see if the really good verse and chorus are there and if that should move on to something. And, you know, the other thing is, is like a lot of songwriters get very scared with that because they're like, oh, but I like that first. It's like, well, most artists, if you listen to their interviews, the verse that they wrote for an additional song ends up on another one three years later all the time. Doesn't mean that skeleton is never going to get big given birth to. Very good point. Let me predicate that as well. I also like to teach my artists to not fall in love with everything they do. The ability, the indomitable spirit to say, this may not be great. Let me move on. Let's not get too emotionally involved in everything we do. That's a very big, big goal. It's hard to do, but I really try to to help my artist get over that. So now let's back up a hair on this, because I think one of the things that you give value to and I should say to the audience, this I'll spare for the intro is that like you're somebody I've heard the name of throughout time. You know, you worked on one of my favorite records of all time, Jimmy World Bleed American, which is a record that is a whole movie about the process and how interesting it is. Tell me what you've seen in artists doing this and why this has made a difference and why where you've seen it fail in others. Like where are the pitfalls that you've seen happen when artists don't do this? OK, perhaps this is blasphemous or whatever. Being successful as an artist is not like going to Harvard. It's not like being a brain surgeon. I tell artists, go to your local rehearsal studio, look around you. That's your competition. If you look at that competition and laugh hysterically, you're probably in my world because it's it's laughable. So I believe that if you are prolific, if you learn the art and the science and the discipline of songwriting, if you adapt and you persevere, eventually you will get to a place of success. OK, I see in my world, most of the artists give up too soon. Yep, yep, I'm with you. If you are, because I have a great deal of love for the science of success as an artist. I love the hit song science. I love I just love the intricacies of melodies, of lyrics, of core progressions, of rhythm, of expansion, of the push and pull of beautiful, wonderful music that makes us all go from fast to slow, slow to fast, from happy to sad, from melancholy to joyful. It's it's a complete turn on every day. And I wake up every mother effing day thinking today, one of my artists is going to send me a song that I can share with my wife and will just be so happy. Love that. And I'm telling you, I still have that joy. So the biggest pitfall they give up too soon. So let's talk about what that giving up looks like. OK, well, you think you can do it yourself. You are stubborn. You don't allow for your for for anyone around you to help you. I always say this to artists. I said, if you want to be an Olympic athlete, do you think you can do it yourself? You don't have a strength coach, nutrition coach. All these coaches, you think that that happens? We're doing the same thing. We're trying to help you be successful. Now, I get it if you just want to, you know, play cover songs at the local pub until you're 60, totally cool. That's totally cool. If you want to do this for fun, I implore you to do it. Because doing it at the level that we're talking about does take a tremendous amount of character and a tremendous amount of self spirit, a dominable spirit. Now, OK, so you don't necessarily understand that if you put one foot in front of the other, if you find someone in your local area who you respect, OK? Or even Jesse, I'm sure Jesse, you have artists sometimes sending you songs, right? And say, hey, Jesse, what do you think that helps? Yep. Reach out to people. Nothing is done without people helping you. It's a big thing. Reach out to people. And by the way, and don't test their time, you know, you don't have to give them a billion dollars. You don't have to give them a burrito, but figure out if someone's really helping you, take them out to lunch. Barn them a cup of coffee, you know, understand that it's their time as well. So I guess I guess to answer your question, get some help. Yeah, I think that that is a thing. And you know, they I was even reading a book recently about depression and they were talking about that some of what cures depression. You know, there's that big study that about the rats that when they're alone, they'll take heroin or water from the thing. And then once they have rats to play with, they stop doing heroin. But what that comes to with musicians as well is that you see that when they get feedback from other people on their music and that they have a bond with somebody else or and they feel like they're growing from the help of other people, they're actually happier. And I think that that is one of the weirdest things is that we have all these great tools to reach out to people and make connections with people through music now. And we don't use them because a lot of people are too shy to go through that band camp tag system and see if there's somebody making similar music to them that they can talk to. Like, you know, there's these two kids and it was like so funny. Like I find them on Spotify and they're collaborating with one another. They've never met each other. They would have crossed the country and they're 15 and 18 years old and they're making some of the best music I've ever heard. And I'm like, that's what's awesome. And that's what should be happening right now. But you're exactly right that like you really need to be reaching out and finding collaborators other ears and just people to talk through music with this because especially I'm sure you've seen this in your career too is most of the great bands you find out about you find out from another band because they Of course, I don't find out about great bands because I'm they're sending it to me in an email. Absolutely not. I'm finding out about it through friends all over the world. Let me say this and you make a great point, Jesse, and you're spot on, but don't you think it makes me feel good? Uh huh. I can be helpful to somebody. If I can actually be a resource or be needed, it helps my self esteem, my state of mind, my quote unquote depression. It makes me feel better and I'm sure it makes you feel better. True or false? Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, literally would I when everybody's like, how do you do all this every day? I'm like, well, people give me the fuel every day of giving me like great stuff to work on and great things to make progress on. And I know that's what keeps me happy. And the second I read that thing I was talking about in the book, I'm like, oh, yeah, all the lowest points in my life has like been when I would get secluded. I'm not working with people on everything. And I'm just like cowering in myself. That's wonderful. So let's get now into the second point you made, which was discipline. Walk me through a little bit more, you know, like obviously I've made a joke about it before that, like, I actually sometimes avoid that word because I don't think there's a word that scares musicians more than the word discipline because it's like, ah, the army. Oh, God, like, you know, like when I was young, I was one of those kids and now like my discipline, admittedly at 42, it's like, I struggle with it a lot and I want to be better at it all the time because I see how important it is, but my God was I allergic to it as a kid. Here, here is the, the real issue, Jesse. When we look at being successful at every endeavor other than music, okay, let's say there's a gentleman who wants to come over and fix my window. My window is broken. How does that gentleman learn how to fix that fricking window? He learns how to fix that window by doing it over and over and over again. And he had to have learned it from somebody else who taught it to him. Okay. How about the car, the car you drive? I drive an old 86 Mercedes Benz and I take it to the mechanic and the mechanic looks at it and says, Oh, Lauren, it's a beautiful car, you know, and I said, Yeah, I know my wife hates it, you know, but I just love it. I feel like I'm driving a rose parade float every day. It's beautiful, right? And he goes, but you need alignment. Okay, fix the alignment. And my, my question is him, how did you learn George, my mechanic, to work on alignment? Well, I've been doing it for 20 years. I said, well, wait a second, you've done it over and over again. Yeah. I do it over and over and over and over again. And when I do it right, I learn and when I do it wrong, I learn. I can give this analogy for absolutely every endeavor that someone wants to be successful at. Why or why do we think it's not true in the art and the craft of songwriting? It's bullshit. You've got to do it. If you don't do it, you're not going to be successful. And like a broken clock, still write twice a day. Yeah, stumble on to it, but you will never repeat it. That's a great point because I think there is that thing. There's this tendency to focus on like, oh, this 15 year old wrote a great song at 15 and they did it. Oh, I'll be that person. I am that person, even though I'm 24 and I've written 30 songs. Yes, I'm that person. I'm the person who can, I'm exceptional to do it. But you're right. Like, you know, the hardest thing, and I'm sure you've seen this a lot in your career is sure, maybe you get lucky with that thing. But like most people, the repeating it part is the hardest part. And I'm glad you're focusing on that a lot. So what have you seen? What are the skills you see that you need to repeat it? The skills are, I talk to my artist about it all the time and I'll break it down. Take 10 to 20 to 100 Billboard number one songs and look to see what the parallels are to all the songs. And there are about eight, the structure, the rhythm section, what are the drums and bass doing, the chord progression, the lyrics? Are they a conversational? You have poetic devices all over that, all over those lyrics. What are poetic devices? Learn what poetic devices are. There's a conversational feel to the lyrics. It's not Dov's Toyeski, right? It's Congress and finally you have dynamics. You have some sort of lift from the verse to the chorus. Yes. That's it. I can show you and everybody else that you can take 100, 100 songs that have been number one, that, you know, I know you may not like 99.9 percent of the number one songs, that doesn't mean we can't learn from them, right? And they all have what I like to call a discipline to them. A character from the craft that if you just learn that craft, implement the craft enough times and adapt the chances of you having a song that changes your state aren't extraordinarily high and you learn how to repeat it. I like that. That's very good. So let's talk a little bit about the perspective that you bring. And as an A&R bring, I think like there's a lot of mysticism, you know, I've particularly found out my time in Atlantic Records that what people understood about the feedback from A&R and what an A&R is doing is totally different. I mean, even I came in thinking that A&R would be working a little bit on the marketing and then I get there and I'm like, oh, wow, the product managers do all the marketing stuff and the A&R is working on the songs. Talk to me a little bit about like where you see the role of A&R and what the borders are, where it starts and begins. That's a really interesting question. And I'm going to talk to you about it straight up. I worked at major labels, right, where you had a sales department, you had a marketing department, you had a promotion department, and you had the A&R department. Major labels are run in one way, getting your shit on the radio. In recent times, very recent, you're lucky enough to do a deal with them and they can put your songs on Spotify Playlist. Yes. In my never to be humble opinion, that is the only gift you're given from a record company. They could get your shit on the radio and they can get your shit on Spotify Playlist that you probably can't do. OK, so if we were to assume that's the case as I'm trying to make it as simple as possible, right? So an A&R guy is essentially, in my opinion, someone who can find the talent that can move the motor of Atlantic Records, of Columbia Records, of Inter Scope Records, understand the culture of the record company currently and make sure that you have the energy or the gas or the songs to move that, to move the company. That's it. And these days, it's essentially two things. First, it's radio, then it's Spotify. That's it. Now, my approach to A&R is a bit different than what I think it is currently. And actually, I'd love to hear your opinion on this. I believe currently that A&R is not so much taking an artist and making sure it has the songs and the capability and everything it needs to drive the company. I think it's finding a song on Bandcamp or SoundCloud or TikTok or Twitch or Instagram and it's doing 100,000 spins on Spotify and then buying the song and then not too much happens after that. That's what I believe is going on. I think A&R people are no longer real, real, real deep, deep music people. I just think they're just finding songs that are already working and then trying to bring them in. And that's not that's not being disparaging to current A&R people. But I think that's the culture right now. But I think really great, great A&R people and even currently great A&R people are recognizing that it's important to find those songs and those artists that are that are turning and really doing well on Spotify and the DSPs, but also can move the meter and move the whole company that they are at with a song that everyone in the company can work. That means the publishing company can work, the marketing company can work and the sales department can work. That's what I believe. And then that A&R person's job is to get in those people's offices and say, hey, I don't want you to listen, you know, get all this stuff that you're doing. I want you to listen to this new artist and find fans and find that support. That to me is true A&R, but I recognize the new A&R. But I'd love to hear your thoughts. Do you agree, disagree? So what I would say is that I say that so much of what happens in culture these days is like divergent streams. You have the middle dropping out, but everything is going two ways. So one is going the way you're talking about, like where it's just, yep, OK, that song's trending on this TikTok playlist. Let's grab it from them. Let's get a really good mixer to slap a new coat of paint on it. And one of our other artists will do a feature on it in about a month if it's working well, and then that is a model. Then there's the other model that is the more tradition. I imagine that you are from where you are giving feedback. First, you're saying, why don't you meet with these five producers? Here's the five producers. I think you should do webbing, listen to your demos. Here's the ones I think are strongest, weighing in on the selection of what's going to get recorded, then as well, weighing in on when the songs are done, making sure that everything got to be as good as it could be, weighing in on who should be mixing it, weighing on if the mix is as good as it should be, the masters as good as it should be. And then finally, making sure that the selections for the record are done. I think there's still those because those are necessary for some genres. But you're exactly right that in pop, it's almost all the other way around. Yeah. And I think that it's not good or bad. It's not right or wrong. It's and that's what I like to say, adapting, right? So all of us need to adapt to what is currently in front of us. I'm not going to say it's good or bad right or wrong. I'm going to adapt to what's going on and try to make it better. I'm going to dismiss it. I'm not going to get mad at it. I'm just going to adapt. Agreed. So talk to me about what you saw your role in that process is and what you currently see your role in that process is. Where do you see that role beginning and ending for you? Well, this last March, I was lucky enough to have one of my artists, the unlikely candidates who I executive produced their records. And I did a production deal with them. They got a number one song and we did the same thing. You know, it was like being prolific, adapting, learning the process and doing it over and over and over again. And we're lucky enough to have a number one song during a pandemic. And it's the same process. Obviously, different artists call for different things, but it was the same process. They have another song that we released just after that that we worked on together that, frankly, is sitting at number 15 right now. And it looks like it's going to cross the top 10. That's what I mean about being able to reproduce it. So and by the way, this song did, I think it's one of the song did about 30 million or so on the DSPs, which is good. It's not it's not like 200 million for their genre. It's pretty good. What is the genre alternative? It's a the unlikely candidates. The song is called Novocaine. OK, great. I look forward to checking it out. So talk to me about what your interactions with them looked like about the songs. I'm up my artist asses every day like, hey, what are we doing? What will I be getting today? What can I do for you every day? Every day. And I recognize that that could be overwhelming and I try to adapt. I try to say, OK, what artists don't like me? You know, reaching out to them on a regular basis. How can I be a better communicator? Because I'm disciplined. I wake up, I wake up very happy. Like I said, I wake up enthusiastic thinking I'm going to find and get. And someone's going to send me something that'll just blow me away. That's the truth. So I'm understanding of how intense I can be. And I kind of try to dial it back, dial it in and for whatever I need to do. So tell me the story of how you came upon this band. They were part of my program. Someone said, hey, there's a band. They're two kids, Kyle and Cole, from the unlikely candidates. They play acoustically. They should be part of your program. They were part of my program for about a year. At first, Kyle, the singer, very young. I mean, by the way, I've been working with this band for ten years. Wow. Ten years. So part of it. So they were the part of my program. I then signed them to my my production company. We're lucky enough. I produced a song called Follow My Feed. Got a record deal at Atlantic, got dropped from Atlantic, got another record deal at Sony, and here we are. So which is also like another good lesson that I tell people all the time, which is that your first major label deal is not often the one that succeeds for you. I mean, you were a part of Jimmy World's career, too. That was the case with that record. That's right. And again, Jesse, that's what I'm talking about. Don't give up. Are you kidding me? Don't give up. Figure it out. And again, your competition are not brain surgeons, rocket scientists or neurosurgeons. Yeah, I heard somebody recently say the best thing about music is that you could not have worse competition to compete against if you have the least bit of motivation in your life. Perhaps that sounds terrible of me, but 100% true. So then talk to me more about this story. So you're going through, you get signed to another record label. What happens next? They put out a song called Novocaine, becomes the number one hit. And they released their second song. It's called High Low. It's currently sitting, I think, at 15. And now they have a career that they didn't have. It's simple and have the ability, whether they work with me or not, to duplicate it because they know they know and embrace the science, the discipline. So let's talk about artistic personality. I think one of the biggest things I hear, especially if I'm reading Reddit that I see all the time, artists don't know whether to chase what's happening in music versus being themselves and making the songs they want to hear. Is there any guidance you give artists about how they should pursue their personality? I find it offensive when artists who've done zero. And I'm trying to try to be nice about this. Talk about being cheesy or talk about being not cool. I remember when I was working with the neon trees, their first record. Another great record. Thank you very much. And my wife and I went to Utah. We saw them perform and we had a business meeting and they said, this is before their first record before everyone, everybody talks and animal. And they said, you know, we don't want to sound. I think at the time it was like Hansen or they don't want to say I guess what they're saying is they don't want to sound pop in there. I said, listen, you don't have to put out the record. You could just give the record back and say love you just you don't have to do it. You guys made the record. You guys wrote all the songs. You don't have to do it. And obviously those songs became number ones and they've had a bitching career and they're super great. I think it's easy as as an artist to talk about cheesy, to talk about I don't like it, it's it's not artistic. But the real, the real dude, the real is if I'm making music in order for my music to make a difference, I need you to understand it, to shake your ass to it a little bit, to sing along to it. And most importantly, to change your state. A music needs an audience. And if you're not understanding your audience, you don't have a career. So you can't necessarily think too much about your own insecurities and write songs that people understand. And sometimes dumbing it down, making it appeal to a first grader is important. You don't you don't have a career. So how about making the music they want to hear versus making the music? What's popular? Do you give any guidance about that? I don't know. Did John Lennon have a problem with that? You know, I hate the Beatles, so it's hard for me to know. Did the Ramones have a problem? No, they knew exactly who they were and what their mission was at all times. Come on, dude, seriously, this is like I'm so sick of hearing this. You either want a big wide audience or you don't take responsibility. You should always make music that here's what I say. It's important that we strive as music helpers, as mentors, producers, etc. To make sure our artists look back on their career and they're proud of it. But the responsibility to an artist is their own, right? It's their own responsibility to write songs that mean something to them. But it's also their responsibility if they want a big audience to make it meaningful to another person. So art, commerce, I don't know. Write some songs that make people sing. So when you get that amazing song, there's a confidence that needs to be there that, you know, like a lot of people are scared of fucking up the song. I'm sure you've been through a million artists that are just like, oh, God, well, all right, we have something good. But what if we what if this isn't right with this is right? Do you have any philosophy around how a, you know, you get you get. Hey, there, Delilah is a demo. How do you stay the course? Well, I remember when Tom wrote that song, he was we were at my they were staying at my house and we were doing pre-production at my house. I lived in a one bedroom, true story, bachelor pad in North Hollywood and they all used to stay at my house. Five guys in a one bedroom bachelor. But I remember working on that song and it was very simple. If you look at the I produced the first record by playing my T's called Stop. And at the end of every record at that time, we were making records, right? So at the very end of the record, there's a there's an acoustic song, right? In the next record with that that Ariel produced, hey, there Delilah was at the end of the record. It was like it was like a beautiful song. So we just looked at it and we understood because we we were thoughtful. We were conscientious. We were we were students of of of songs and student. This song just needed to be acoustic. It was just not overthinking things, man. You know, like there was no I have to be honest with you. There's Chris Cornell just put out a song, a cover song and helped me out here, Jesse. I think it was the latest releases. Patience, patience. OK. And I remember listening to it. I'm thinking, fuck me. They overproduced it. All you had to do is let his voice shine. I like to tell people music just gets in the way of the vocal. So with Hayther Delilah, it was just it was an easy, very easy conversation. I guess what you're saying is, you know, it's funny, I don't have a lot of artists, maybe because I'm a producer and I know how to do it. I don't have a lot of artists kind of wringing their hands over, did we do the right thing because before we actually make a song, it's edited, it's worked on, it's thought about well before we decide to record it. And I also I try to tell artists, don't spend the money on recording a song unless it's going to change your life because it's too expensive to record a song unless it's going to be really fucking good. Yeah. I mean, I think that that is always the lessons that the pre-production is more important than the production. Yes. With that, though, so then some of more what I'm getting at is you are talking here about that the artists have a lot of intent, so they know which way to go. Is there anything you do to guide them to how to get that backbone, that intent, that even I think one of the biggest things that plays artists is they're generic and they haven't yet found their voice that's unique to them. Is there anything you do to get them there? Take chances, listen to music that that that expands your and don't listen to the same music that you like, listen to music that is new and fresh. And even if you hate it, learn, find some of some things that you like. Do you like the way that trap drum sounds? Do you like the way the guitar sounds? Do you like the way the bass has it's a P bass, you an Ampeg and it's got a little bit of distortion? Or do you like it that it sounds like a Rickenbacher or what? You know, like kind of start being a student for new brand new music because you are in love with new music. You will find some things that you love about it, even if you don't love these songs. I think that seems dead on. So talk to me a little bit more about your program. What happens there to give me the details on that? I'm lucky enough to mentor emerging talent. I'm surprised that more people don't do it. I love doing it. It's a six month program and I'll change your life. And I'm available to my artist 24 seven. I'll never work harder than they do, but I will change their life. I'll I'll you'll get if you do the work, you'll get to a place three or four months into the six months where you'll have an aha moment like, oh, my God, I did it. And that's for me the most exciting part of it. And from that program, I found neon trees, the unlikely candidates, all sorts of other bands that are currently super successful. Yeah, that's also neon tree stuff. And then you were also involved in sugar cult, right? Yeah. So all of these bands, I imagine, you know, they come to you with a strong personality, but have you ever done anything like, is there any exercise you know of when a band? I just find so many bands are like, I don't know my personality yet. Is there any advice you have for that one? Somebody hasn't quite found their signature dash there. I had so many people think that comes from the label and obviously it comes from philosophy and people I've never had anyone tell me they don't know their personality. Can you expand on that, Jesse? So think of it this way, when you look at neon trees, you're like, OK, that band looks different. They have a thing that other people don't have. And a lot of people are wondering like how they get to that and how they find that thing that makes them unique. Oh, OK. I just want you to know something. The entries came to me. They were really old, they were super talented and no one gave a shit about them. That's why they paid me to help get them to that success. So don't get it twisted. None of these artists have anything going on, right? But here is exactly when you write a hundred songs, when you write 50 songs, when you write 150 songs and you get feedback on each and every moment of those songs and you get feedback on everything you do, you get your personality, baby. Yeah. Prolific gets your personality. Come on. That right there, that that is the that that is the truth. And you know, that's actually like one of the best ways I've seen put it is that so much of the process that I think people miss is that like you go on that journey of really writing a lot and really immersing yourself, immersing yourself in it, that that is where you find who you are and all the little things that if you're showing up every day and you're having to get inspired to write all those songs because we all know that it doesn't just happen in a vacuum of not listening to things, not doing research, not thinking about your life and what is unique to you, you find it. Yep. That's really good. So why don't we finish this off? Since I want to be respectful of your time, where can people find you? And how can they get in touch with you? Email me, LaurenIsrael at gmail, l-o-r-e-n-i-s-r-a-e-l at gmail.com. Go to my website, my name.com, LaurenIsrael.com.