 You're listening to barbell logic brought to you by barbell logic online coaching where each week We take a systematic walk through strength training and the refining power of voluntary heart show Welcome to the barbell logic podcast another principles episode. I'm here with my little bro Chris Reynolds Hello coming coming at you from Boston Me at the from the Ozarks, which is quite different than the TV show, but but it's still good And we wanted to talk a little bit today. So man, this is an interesting topic for me I wanted to talk a little bit about the importance of empathy and compassion and for me, I really want to relate it back to strength coaching and We haven't even said this much in in your background but you are a you are a pretty accomplished strength athlete yourself like you were really into competitive powerlifting back when I was as well and And you're a you're a client of barbell logic now and you're you're just a middle-aged dude trying to keep up with Trying to try to get away from dad bod. Basically, that's okay. Yeah, the best you can but you get a lot of background on that stuff too and Certainly, we don't have to relate all this to barbell training But last week we had an article come out on the website about the importance of of Compassionate coaching and it made me think about how in the strength and conditioning world specifically Everything sort of divided up There's a lot of like it's so goal oriented. So you either see these like boutique type Trainers who don't really do anything of value, right? They're just there to encourage you and give you hugs and tell you that you're wonderful and you don't really train and Straight when I say the word strength coach often people will ask me what I do and I'm like, well I'm really kind of a private sector strength coach The idea of sort of a division one or professional strength coach is almost like a drill sergeant It's a person that yells a lot or argues about the way we program or the way we squat or whatever those things are and certainly quality of coaching and coaching knowledge matter tremendously But if you're not able to empathize and relate to your clients They never see the knowledge and coaching expertise. Anyway, they shut you down early and And so I wanted to address that a little bit and then I think important for me to note is This doesn't come natural for me at all. In fact, I think we've actually developed a reputation I think I've developed a reputation even of a very empathetic Strength coach and and I think I am but I've had to work very hard at it. It hasn't come naturally to me Would you say that you are naturally? empathetic Yeah, yeah, I am and why why why do you think that is or what makes you say that? Well, I You know, it's a blessing and a curse actually I I took a test actually for those of you that heard the sort of the Interview with me and my background. I actually took a test when the most recent capital partner came in that sort of did a personality test for us one of them was Emotional intelligence and I sort of suspected that mine was was fairly high in terms of on the empathy side of that Which also is the source of much of my own anxiety sure But I have the ability to read an awful lot from interaction with another human being both tone of voice face all these things. I'm getting you know 20 times the amount of information that your typical extrovert would And so and I knew that already I sort of knew that that would probably be the case and the test results came out that that it was Yeah, so what is what do you feel like when you recognize man? I'm I'm more than average on the empathy scale. What does that look like for you for like your own? feelings in the way that The way that impacts your your life So, you know when I'm in in the room with somebody who's experiencing Strong emotions of any kind. I I tend to think of it like my mirror neurons That we all have to one degree or another are firing At it just an incredible pace. So if I'm in the room with someone who's extremely angry I am Very very very uncomfortable because I feel that anger with them, right? Same would be true if they're extremely sad or or whatever. I'm always Reading the room and and I think the source of the difficulty with that around empathy is I'm trying to because I feel the intensity of Of the emotion that they're feeling I Also try to bring the intensity level down for them, which is sure difficult to do because I'm feeling it as well That's a great example because that example shows For me why and why and how or at least by experience that I am not naturally empathetic I am a super extrovert a super type A guy can be very much goal oriented goal driven and there are times when I'm in the room and I am trying to control the room and afterward Rachel's like did you notice that the person had a stroke in the corner of the room and The ENTs had to come in and carry I was like no I didn't who and she was like hey Yeah, somebody somebody actually died like six feet away actually true story It just reminds me back when I was a junior high school teacher I had a couple buddies who were also junior high school teachers and you had to stand out in the hallway before school every day just to kind of monitor the hallway and so I was talking to my my buddies who were coaches and teachers in the hallway and there was just a completely normal Tuesday morning and Went to class and about fourth hour third hour the assistant principal who was a great guy who you know handles the discipline calls calls me He's like hey Your conference our next hour. Can you come and see me? And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa I don't like that. I said I do something wrong. He said no. No, just come. It's not anything really bad Just come okay, so I go down to his office on my conference hours Like I want to show you the security camera for a second So he pulls a security camera He's like who's that and I was like that's me having a conversation with my buddies He's like watch this kid this kid runs up to another kid Three feet away from me hits him in the face as hard as he can it drops his ass in the middle of the hallway never noticed He's like, do you know why we have you guys monitoring the hallways Oh, sorry, bro, sorry about that so however Because I really do as what has happened especially over the last 10 years is One as I have gone through Some really hard things in life like that have to go through the the tragedies and the The thin and the triumphs and like all of these things you I kind of feel the gravity of of the weight of life and so now when I am around people or especially when I am Focused on the relationship and and and that extends certainly to my staff at Barba logic But also very much to almost all of our clients and I find out that there is a problem with X Now maybe that's not even us. Maybe it's just something it like their wins or my wins and their losses are my losses and That's very that can be a very emotionally exhausting, but what it's done for us I think is it's really set us apart at Barba logic is being the strength coaches who are a people company Who are about empathy and compassion? So if you haven't had a chance to read the article about coaching with compassion You know, this isn't something that that a type a person can check the checkbox It doesn't work that way that it's inauthentic and so until you really can can Put yourself in the shoes of that person you can be You can be inauthentically empathetic, but I think often people will read right through that and until you can actually put your Their shoes on and say like I really I feel what you're going through Then you're not going to be able to connect and I think for me my experience and we've had Dr. Pewter on the show is an incredible psychiatrist It's probably the single most important thing for human connection Right is empathy and compassion and it's it's lost in the strength and conditioning world You wouldn't say this you you started to sort of You sort of put your big toe in the water because you and you I know you won't brag about your yourself But most people are either High IQ or high EQ and it's very rare that they're both and you're both You're you're you're not a genius on the IQ scale and I'm not either But we're above average Significantly, but you're also way above average on the EQ scale and that was one of the things that was interesting I think for the capital partners that came on for you. They're like We're not used to seeing guys that are high on both ends of the spectrum Yeah, I mean it's um It I don't know what to say about it other than it's a It's something that I both have You know, I think everybody has some amount of those qualities that they're born with But you also have a lot of work to do on yeah both I mean when you think about the the IQ side of that equation, I mean, you know, we've talked a lot about reading I Read incessantly so that I can learn more and more and more and more The same is true on the EQ side, you know, you there's a lot about There's something that ties those two things together. Yeah, and that thing is curiosity You're truthfully at the core of empathy is curiosity. It's curiosity about what the other person is actually feeling Yeah, and and and why they're behaving maybe in a way that they are behaving that you don't understand and there's something almost It's incredibly uncommon for people to Suspend judgment on somebody else while they While they attempt to read what they've done Versus, you know trying to judge what they're seeing and their concept is essentially called separating observation from interpretation and and there there are a lot of books written about this but there's There is a quote that says the highest form of intelligence is the ability to separate observation from interpretation fully observe You know without without the judgment at least to reserve it for later to just be able to hone in One of the things I've noticed for myself and for other people who have maybe aren't naturally gifted at this like you are is if I'm in a conversation with somebody and I'm while they're talking. I'm thinking about the thing that I'm going to say next That is a complete lack of empathy that is I don't really care about what you're saying I'm already formulating my response to the thing you're saying and so it's not it's not really listening and it's certainly not really hearing them and It's not being empathetic to their needs and so Actually, one of the things that's really taught this is in my own marriage like Rachel and I for a long time Rachel I've been best friends for years, but we had a hard time. We struggled about a decade ago with conflict We conflicted poorly and I don't know if it was a we Both people were trying to win the argument, but it wasn't healthy conflict now We weren't like hitting each other in the head with pans or anything. There was no but it was just The conflict would escalate it would never de-escalate and we went to a phenomenal marriage counselor and She taught us how to really listen to the other person and The only thing that you were allowed to say after the person spoke after your spouse spoke Was to repeat back to them what they said Which is amazing because when you listen to somebody talk and all you're thinking about is I'm going to I'm listening to you So hard that I'm going to have to repeat back what you just told me I'm gonna put it in my own words But I'm gonna say back to you what you just said and this is the way it worked Rachel would say something to me and I would say what I heard you say was and I would say the thing and she Would go that is not what I said at all and then the counselor would say okay Rachel say it again And she would say it and then I would go okay what I heard you say was you know, which and then she would go Yep, that's it and then the counselor would say okay, Matt Would you like to respond? Yes, and then same thing and I would say something and then Rachel would have to repeat back To me what I said and it was painfully slow But what it allowed us to do is to never escalate the conflict Because so much of what you do is you you read the body language or something in you and you misinterpret what they're You're not actually trying to listen in here And the and it's really it's crazy how much I've taken from that from little of my relationship with my wife I've been married to for 20 years And how much of that is sort of layered on top of my relationship with my clients when I hear my clients complain a little bit about some elbow tendonitis or You didn't sleep very well the night before like that's what red flags go up for me and I go Hey, what's let's talk about it. What's going on and and we're proud of that at Barbara logic We don't do it perfectly, but I think one of the things that are really important to us You know, we have people on our staff their entire job is to manage in a in a healthy way both internal relationships in the business and external relationships in the business or outside the business and I think that's one of the things that's helped us separate ourselves and so for for some for guys like you That empathy and compassion comes pretty naturally for people like me it takes work And I know the Saying of we have to be more intentional or there has to be some intentionality there has almost become a trite saying but you You really have to work on the thing And you do and at first it might actually look like I you know as we do more and more of these episodes there are times for me when my emotion doesn't match my action and Those are those times of white knuckle discipline and there have been lots of times on the podcast in previous years What I thought where I kind of I kind of shit on white knuckle discipline but the reality is is that often we have to have it in the beginning and My experience is that my emotion follows my action. So if I act empathetic or Compassionate towards something that I'm not Over time my emotions follow and I become actually Compassionate and empathetic towards those things and I don't think there's anything wrong with that I don't think it's fake and I think that if you're like that forever You're a sociopath, right? If you're if you pretend to be empathetic and compassionate for months and years on in like we and you're not You should go seek help But for most people I think the emotions often follow the actions And so for me the first step for me is just to be intentional about doing the thing Even if I don't really feel it and what I've noticed is very quickly. I mean very quickly within just a few days My emotions and my feelings follow my actions. Yeah, they're actually great studies That actually prove that that is exactly what happens. I mean they even did studies That showed that people who were particularly unhappy that smiled While they were unhappy Had a hard time staying unhappy for a period of time. I mean, there's a Large body of evidence about this the other thing that I would say it's an interesting point that you brought up is It's it's not always that we Misinterpret what's being said. I mean, I think that's that's certainly a large part of the equation But one of the other things we have to be very careful about as we work on growing getting better in in empathy and compassion Is not labeling people Maybe at all, but certainly not too quickly Because there's this thing. I mean our brains are pattern matching machines And there's this tendency that we have To say you are a X whatever that x is and I know a lot of x's And and therefore I know you and I know what's motivating you and all of those things Yeah, yeah, probably, you know, we we we want to do the best we can to stray from to stay away from Sort of religion and politics and those hot button topics and especially I mean again I mentioned this in previous episodes you and I disagree on those things but I think regardless of of of what side of the spectrum you land on Most people would agree that the that identity politics Is a has a tremendous negative effect on humanity when I judge someone as you are this demographic Therefore, I know everything about you That's a problem. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I I think back to Martin Luther King Jr. Who said I I I have this dream that there is a day coming When my kids won't be judged By the color of their skin or the demographic they are but the actual content of their character Which means like just you Not based on anybody else who looks like you who said a phrase like you but like that's Like that's an incredible thing to be able to do and I think really that's what empathy and compassion bring out of us Is we're able to literally see the humanity and people And empathize with that and have compassion Even if they come from opposite sides of the spectrum of the political world religious world worldview like whatever those things are And see them for who they really are as humans And it's really pretty cool I think one of the easiest ways to apply it also is simply to turn it back to yourself If you simply turn your turn it right back on yourself Is there one label that you could put out and point to yourself? That fully encapsulates you of course not right, you know, there are all sorts of groups that we might say we're sort of a part of or groups of beliefs and those kinds of things that we have but in reality We all have a ton of nuance to those things So when we're relating to another person and we are trying to be empathetic with them the longer we can delay Judgment labels all of those things until we sort of understand that we can we actually are understanding what it is That they're saying or why they're behaving the way they are The more successful will be Agreed There you go guys. It's another episode of the principles podcast on empathy and compassion if you get a chance take a look at that article on compassionate coaching And gosh, we need more compassionate coaches one of the things that we think about For our future pbcs our professional barbell coaches that we certify is is that is a big part of it the The psychology of coaching the compassionate empathy of coaching is something that we take very seriously at barbell logic And so for those of you who are clients of ours, we hope you feel that for those of you who aren't yet It's there and so Thank you for listening and we will see you tomorrow on monday for another episode of the barbell logic podcast See you guys soon