 Welcome back to Think Tech, I'm Jay Fidel and we're doing a historical study of kakaako, especially kakaako makai, catching up on kakaako, the history of kakaako makai and history can help. History always helps in one way or another. The uses and the vision for kakaako makai under some kind of long-term plan with Ron Iwami who was there. He may not look that old but he is old. I'm old. Thanks for the compliment. Well, you've been involved in this issue for a long time and I really appreciate your work over the years. Can you give us a little thumbnail history of where it started and how it went for you in the early years of the 2000s? Okay. Well, you're right Jay. It has been a long time of my involvement, 18 years now this year. I couldn't believe it but 18 years we kept this place pretty much how it was from 2005 and I was kind of blown away at that. We got 18 more good years where local people can come and feel comfortable, feel welcome and that's very rare in the urban city of Honolulu. So that's what makes this land very special. It's the last public ocean from land in urban Honolulu. Maybe some people might not agree that it's public now because actually on the boat it's owned by Oha now. So part of it. Yeah, part of it. Yeah, part of it. Not the whole thing. So yeah, just briefly I'll give you guys a brief history of what I know because I was there and my involvement basically was through Friends of Kewalos which is a nonprofit that was formed in 2005 and one of the major issues or reasons why is because we heard that major development was coming to the area and that's all we knew. It just was like went to the grapevine and we found out. So we formed informally because we at least wanted to know what was going on, what was happening and it was very hush-hush at that time but it all came to a head in September 7th of 2005, HCDA who stands for Hawaii Community Development Authority, they voted at a public meeting at their headquarters on the 10th floor of the Goldblown building. It was a Wednesday morning at 9 a.m. when most of us are working but they held it anyway. I could not make it because I was working at the fire station and my friend Brian went and he told me, Ron, it was a total she buy. Very few of the general public, normal people was there because of the time and place and mostly was construction workers, real estate people, construction people. People paid to be there but that meeting went swiftly by with the pounding of the gavel they said we're going to allow residential development in Kakaakubakai. So with that one meeting it was changed and one week later the headlines on newspaper showed A&B was selected as the master planner and it showed the extent of the development through a rendering on the front page. So that's when we really saw the picture. Wow, this is what's happening. They're going to build three 200-foot high rises. That's the height limit of Kakaakubakai today and each of those three luxury towers as they were described were surrounded by three six-story buildings like encircling each of the three towers. There was the main moneymaker for their plan and they also involved a giant bridge going over the Kiwalo channel from John Dominic side to Kiwalo basin side and it was a monstrosity of a bridge because it had to be at least 40 feet high so the sailboat mass would go under. So I asked why- This was Ted Liu's special project, that bridge. Ted Liu. Oh, Ted Liu. Yeah, Ted Liu. Yeah, he was debat under Linda Lingle and he was painting for that for the longest time, I remember. Yeah, so that bridge was to satisfy the iconic feature that was the requirement of the RFP. Each, I guess, person submitting a plan needed to have my iconic feature. So I think I could have been talking to Ted Liu. I don't remember exactly, but I said, we don't need iconic feature. Just look over there. There's diamond head. That's our iconic feature. But anyway, part of the plan too was still high-end restaurants. One high-end restaurant was right at Kupu, where Kupu, the whole Kupu Center is there now helping the challenged youth, which is a very good purpose. And then another high-end restaurant where the blue tarp is now, blue tarp in closed parking lot, where Swinerton Construction Workers Park, right there, a beautiful view of Diamond Head too, and a two-story strip mall. That's all on the Kuala Basin side. On the other side of the channel, they had strip malls too, along the ever side of the channel, all along the water's edge. And we just saw that and we said, oh my, we've got to do something. But then people would say, Ron, are you crazy going against the state of boy at A and B? But I told them, we've got to try, right? If we don't try, we just sit on our employees and let it happen, then we have nothing to grumble about. But if we try and it happened, at least we can say, you know what, we tried, we gave it our best shot. So we had no idea of how to do this. We're just really a core group of surfers and park users, normal local people who wanted to just to protect the place that we enjoy so much. And you know, we did it. But I want to add more. On top of the A and B high rise towers, they were able, they were going to purchase the land or the state was going to sell the land to them for $50 million. And to me, for ocean public, oceanfront land, that was a sweetheart deal. Anyway, a long story short, the people... When you say you did it, what did you do? Okay, I'll kind of explain. We actually rallied the legislators through formation of a coalition. We had a group of 12 coalition members that we gathered with the common goal of stopping this development and stopping this sale of public land. So early on, I mean, we didn't know how to do this, right? We're inexperienced. None of us were lawyers or real estate guys. So one of my friends told me, oh, why don't you talk to George Downing of Save Our Surf? Because he's experienced in these things. He saved Magic Island from having high rises, you know. And he also saved from Magic Island to Kuala Lumpur Basin in between there, offshore of Alwana Park. There's so many surf spots there, from Bamburas, you know, tennis courts, all the way down to Kuala Lumpur. They were going to pave that over and build probably hotels on it. This was in the 1950s. Save Our Surf stood up, and today there's no high rises there. The reef is not covered. Magic Island is enjoyed by thousands of people every day. Alwana Park is enjoyed by thousands of people today. Kuala Lumpur Basin Park is enjoyed. Kakaako Waterfront Park is enjoyed. So Save Our Surf started all of that. So I called George. I didn't know him. And he told me, I mean, I told him what was happening. And he said, Ron, you know what? I don't know you, but I'm on the mainland. But when I come back, we can talk more. But he said, while you're waiting for me to come back, I want you to organize, educate the people on what's going on, what you just told. So we did it. We did take any advice. We made our first rally at Kuala Basin Park. I believe it was in November or sometime after the September 7th, when the plan came on. And so we had a meeting. We had about 150 people there, which is pretty good. We made the headlines. The paper covered it showing that there was opposition. And we shared what we educated the people, how everything happened, what AMB is going to do, what we need to do. And we ended with Hawaii Loa standing in a circle in the park. And it was a good feeling because I saw the amount of people that was willing to fight for the land and stop it. And at the end, which I didn't see them throughout the whole rally, George Downing came up to me and said, you know what, Ron, I think I'm going to help you guys. Because when you spoke or when your speakers spoke, they spoke with passion. And they're not in this for the money or the fame or whatever. They're in it to save their surf spot. And from then on, I made a lifelong friend until the day he passed, you know, excuse me. When was that, Ron? That was November of 2005. Yeah. Right when the announcement came. That AMB was going to buy the land and build this unbelievable development. So yeah, with that said, save our surf, Hawaii State Body Surfing Association, excuse my reading this, the Hawaii Surf Rider Foundation, the Sierra Club, the life of the land, and others formed to oppose this development. And we, it was a total grassroots effort. And that's what I said in a book that I wrote, it's called Save Our South Kaka'ako. And it's called the Save Our Kaka'ako, the power of the people. And it was the power of the people. One thing that occurs to me is that as successful as your movement was, I call it a movement, because I think it was, it really rose to that level in the, you know, the first a few years of 2000, of the old years. Not too long after, Neil Abercrombie got to be governor, and he sold that land to OHA in consideration of $200 million debt. And I don't know exactly what the conversation was, but they walked away feeling that that would enable them to build residential, exactly what you were opposing. Did you know about that? Did you take any action on that? Yeah. But before I start, I wanted to make clear to the audience that through the people's movement back in 2005 and 2006, the legislators created that law banning no sale of public land and no residential at all in Kaka'ako, Makai. And that's the reason why I believe Stan Kuriyama and A&B pulled out, because they no longer could build their high rises, which was the anchor for that development. And they couldn't buy the land, so that ended it. So now the land was sitting idle from 2006 to 2012, like you say, Governor Abercrombie. I believe this is just what I know. I don't know the true story, but since I was there, I can just say what I know from what I saw and what I heard, when I talk to people. But yeah, he brokered the deal, I believe, to OHA to take the land, as like you say, to satisfy the $200 million debt owed to them from the seeded land issue. And at that time, OHA knew about this law that was created in 2006. So they knew they couldn't build, but yet they still took the deal. And I want to also mention this as a fact that two bills were introduced in 2012, one to just give the land to OHA to satisfy the land issue debt. The second bill was asking for an exception to the no residential law, so that they could build. So it's kind of like they could have put it all, that language, in one bill and have it pass through, but they didn't, they put it in two separate bills. So that tells me that then you would have opposition with the exception bill, so they left it separately. They wanted the land swap, the land deal to go through. And we, I mean, a majority of the people wanted that. So even friends of Q'allos and Sabar Kaka who supported that, we wanted the Hawaiians to get what's due to it. But then the other bill, which was concurrently introduced, died because of public opposition. So now OHA took the deal, the bill number one, and now they can't build residential. So that land has been pretty much idle since 2012 to now. And during that time period, OHA, as the new land owners, has tried, this will be the fourth time they're trying. So I think they're just waiting to get the bill, the law overturned. So are you guys, your movement has opposed that bill each one of those four times? Yeah. Well, the first bill in 2012 was not a total repeal. It was asking for exception for OHA to build. But our main concern, like today, is if you allow one person to build, then others are going to say, I want to build too. Like Kamehameha schools, they have land here. And you can't stop them. You've got to be fair, right? So I think this time they're asking for a total repeal, not to feel like they're being, you know, just helping the Hawaiians. They want to help everybody to be able to build. I believe that's their idea. So they're asking for a total repeal. So what is your movement said to that over the past, what, two, three, four years? Have you opposed that bill? Well, we're still going to oppose it. Well, let me just tell you what the bill states in summary, just three steps. One, a total repeal of the no residential law. Number two, raise the height limit from 200 feet, like it was back in 2005 with the A&B plan, to 400, just like the towers across the boulevard, 400 feet, 40 stories. And the third part, which kind of disturbs me is OHA will be able to convey the land, which means to me, sell the land to a third party and they get to develop the land. So those are the three major points of the bill. And we're opposing it for those three reasons too, the main reason why being the repeal of the no residential law. OHA has stated that they want to build just like the people across the street with the residential entitlement, with the 400 feet increase. And now the third part, they want to be able to sell the land to whoever wants to buy it. So it started from public land in 2005 to now being OHA's land. And now OHA could sell it if that bill passes. So those rights would be in the hands of any landowner on the Malca side of Kakaako. Why do you distinguish this land on the Makai side? Why do I distinguish? Yeah, I'm saying that the Makai side, OHA should have different treatment than the Malca side. Okay. Because number one, there is a law on the ocean side that says you cannot build. And there was a reason for that law. The reason was the majority of the people did not want it. And like I said, we were able to rally the legislators around us. And they voted almost unanimously, except for one vote, to create this law, the residential ban and no selling of public land. They saw the value of this last public ocean front land that we need to at least preserve it as open space or low rise or public use, not private use through the sale of it to build condos. Across the street, there is no law that says you cannot build. They're following the rules under ACDA rules. ACDA changed the height limit to 400. So they're building 400. But that's the difference between Malca and Makai. We have a law created by the people. What about the environmental considerations? People have been talking about that for a long time. Well, good question. Back in 2005, that came up too with the ANB plan, but it didn't seem to stop them. But that area, maybe not all the total area is brown fields. Brown fields means toxic land through all the previous uses of the land because there was incinerator there. There was the Opaula station there. So then land is toxic. And I believe right now it has been capped. And being capped makes it safe to walk on, to be there. But if you're going to start pile driving, piles down, you've got to go through the water table and everything for high rises. They're going to disturb that. So they're going to have to remediate the soil, meaning removing it. And I believe, I understand you can't remove it and put it somewhere in this state. You have to ship it overseas somewhere. That's going to take a lot of money. But of course, developers have a lot of money. So they could probably afford it. But there is that issue of the brown fields. There's the issue of sea level rise. You know, right now that's the buzzword. How can the government allow people to build on the ocean knowing that the sea level rise is happening? And they have charts that is coming. So we shouldn't build close to the ocean already. I mean, everything that's built close to the ocean is grandfathered in now. It's hard to knock down your buildings, but you can prevent the future once. And there's also the tsunami unendation zone. You're going to build close to the ocean to possibly be destroyed and you're putting people in arms weighing. So that is a very big issue today, the brown field issue. Oh, what do you say to OHA when it says it's doing this for affordable housing? Well, yeah, they told me that, well, we met with the consultants and they said, yeah, though, residential, they want to build will be affordable. But number one, it cannot be affordable to only Hawaiian people. It has to be open to the public because only DHHL can build only for the Hawaiian people. So it's going to be open to everybody. And number two, I cannot see how oceanfront residents can pencil out to be affordable unless you get heavy, heavy government subsidies to help OHA do it. And so what saddens me is this high, this consulting firm is portraying it to be affordable. Excuse me, I'm going to stop my question. Sorry for the interrupt. Yeah, so it really, really saddens me because they're misleading the Hawaiian people with all their slick ads, commercial ads and everything. So I challenge the Hawaiian people out there listening to ask OHA that question and really get a definite answer because you and I know that the devil is in the details, right? They're advertising a good show, affordable, all of that. But I know, I heard that OHA was asked, what are you going to build? We're not going to build, well, we're not going to spend any more money on this property until we get the residential law repealed. Then we're going to come out with a plan. So how can you, how can the people support your idea of repealing a very important law that's protecting this place with no plan? It's very hard. Don't you agree? We don't know the details. Is it really going to be affordable? So that's the predicament we're in now. There's no plan for anyway. There's also no EIS and the sequence would be first you make a plan and then you test it against an EIS and then you see if you have to change the plan and then you see if you have to change the building, zoning, building requirements and a lot of time goes by. So I guess my question is what your movement has been very effective, very rational, very community minded. It's really a wonderful thing. It's a great contribution you and the others in the movement have made. What uses do you think would be appropriate short of residential? Okay. Well, that's a good question. My friend Jay, who is a board member of Prince of Kualos, always told the group, yeah, we cannot always oppose, oppose, complain, complain. We're going to find a solution and I agree, 100%. So we have brought up a possible solution of what could be there instead of irises to the consultants of OHA. They like the idea, our ideas, but I guess when it reached OHA, it didn't move further than that. They still want to build residential. But to give you an idea, can you hold on just a moment? We call it the more idea, M-O-R-R-E. It is standing for marine, ocean, research, recreation and education and many more concepts. But mainly it has to do with the ocean. Why? Because many of us feel in Prince of Kualos that the way to develop land is to look first at the assets of the land. And the asset of this land is the ocean. That's a very native Hawaiian concept, isn't it? It is. I mean, I consider myself Hawaiian because I was born and raised here, even though I'm a Japanese race. But being born and raised here, I share a lot of the values of the Hawaiians and how they want to meloma the land. I think that's what we're doing here. But anyway, to give you a more clear idea of what more is, it includes a world-class aquarium on the side of the Kewawa Basin Marine Lab. And we have the support of Dr. Bob Richmond, who is the director of the lab. He feels that it can happen there. It's a good place to have it there. And it would be a money stream for Oha. Because not only the residents and locals will go, but the tourists will go. And basically, I want to reverse that. This more vision is a long-term vision. It's not short-term, sell some condos. And in 10 years, the money will be gone, spent. But this vision is long-term will give more than monetary benefit, where we can benefit more than the $200 million from generation to generation to generation. So that land is valuable if you look at it in those terms. So it also includes a... That money can help affordable housing elsewhere. Elsewhere where they're allowed to build housing. There's no law against it. So that's another thing we're going to... Well, I'll tell you about that later at the very end. Please remind me, yeah. But we're going to have like a marine center that's going to cover Hawaiian history, aquaculture, and the fish that we grow in aquaculture farms will be served at a restaurant in this marine center. And like Kampachi and Moe. And it'll be like on the table. So concepts like have... We want to feature a live coral reef grown by Bob Richmond's crew at the lab and create a public surf break offshore of Kaka'aka Waterfront Park. I think it will be the first in Hawaii. And we are moving forward on it. Bob said, there's money. And we have Pat Ross, a former head of sea engineering on board too, where he's going to design the concrete substrate where the coral will be grown on. Isn't that exciting? It is. It is something for the public. A new public surf spot because all the surf spots are crowded. So not all of those elements directly affect OHA. But it strikes me that some of them could have been accomplished by OHA in the years after OHA got the land and until now. But let me ask you this. Has OHA done anything with this land since then? I mean, they have done small things. Like they brought in some, you know, where the fishermen's wharf area. They did things there. They did like food, lunch wagon, you know, lunch wagon, food thing there. They had a big tent. Yeah. Okay. That sounds very temporary and ephemeral. Yeah, temporary. I'm talking about some real development and some of those, you know, uses and structures you describe. I don't think they built anything new. They're collecting lease rent from the people leasing from them now. They have one good thing I see is they have the Palmer's Market. You know, when you pass there, they have it on their land. And I mean, that's good. It's for the people. Yeah. But as far as to ask you a question, Jay, I don't think they've built any new buildings or anything. I could be wrong, but I don't see anything. So I told you I'll remind you of one point as we get close to the end here. And we are close to the end. What was the point you wanted to make? Okay. So the point I wanted to make is I want to invite everyone out there to our February 13th event put on by friends of QALOS. It's called the Community Informational Gathering on Kakaako Bukai. Like George Downing said, in the early days, educate the people raw. That's what we're doing with this February 13th event. So I invite everyone to come down, learn about Kakaako Bukai. It's a learning opportunity. It's not a rally. It's a learning opportunity. So where in Kakaako Bukai will it be and what time will it be? It will be at the Kupu Center and that's right next to Kuala Basin Park. Not maybe it wouldn't be exactly on Kakaako Bukai, but it's still in the same area. We are trying to protect the whole shoreline area next to Kuala, which includes Kakaako Bukai. At Kupu, we have developed a good relationship with them because they are neighbors at the park. And they have offered their facility to us. And they're equipped with big screens, microphones, everything. So we're going to have the speakers there. We're going to have free food, online food. And we're going to talk about everything. Pretty much what we talked about right here. The history of the residential band, the Kakaako Bukai Master Plan, which the gentleman Wayne Takamini covered, which is a plan that's still on the books today as a guideline to guide all future development. But unfortunately, it has been ignored. Okay, we're out of time. I really appreciate it. You've given us a great history and you are a leader in a great movement. And you've made significant contributions to this community and to life quality of life in this community. So credit should go to you for that. Wish you well on the February 13th event. And in the testimony that you may give in the legislature on this current bill. Thank you so much, Ron. Okay. Thank you for inviting me, Jay, and your staff for putting this on because it is an opportunity to tell our side of the story. Thank you. Mahalo.