 Good evening. We I will call to order this meeting of the city of Montpelier development review board. Thanks for being here. It is Monday, August 16. And I will begin by introducing myself and the members of the boards. My name is Kate McCarthy. Can you hear me all right. Okay, thank you. I'm the chair of the board, and I am joined by three other board members. They are Joe Kearnan. Hello, Rob Goodwin. Hello, and Michael is our check. Good evening. And we are staffed by Meredith Randall to my right. Hello. Very good. Thank you. So the first thing we'll do since we are in this hybrid mode that's relatively new is we will review the remote meeting procedures and process and that is something I will turn to Meredith for. All right, so for everybody, logging in from zoom and by the way, I'm sorry you can see me twice on your screen now. I'm going to share my screen. This is mostly for people watching the orca. But it helps. Okay. There we go. All right. So for those viewing this meeting via orca media, you can participate in tonight's development review board meeting via the zoom platform. You can find the link here, or you can call in and use this meeting ID and that'll let you participate as well. We just won't be able to see you. If anyone has problems accessing the meeting, please email me at this email address mcrandall at Montpelier hyphen vt.org. So for everyone attending via zoom, turning your video on is optional. For everyone attending, please keep your microphone on mute when you are not speaking to reduce the background noise. We don't have anybody on via phone tonight. So I'm not going to worry about that right now. The zoom chat function only for troubleshooting or logistics questions. If you have a question or comment comment about an item on the agenda, please raise your hand, either physically or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar. And then wait and to speak until the chair has recognized you. Once the chair has recognized someone to participate, please make sure to provide your full name and address for the record. We ask that anyone commenting on an application aimed to keep their initial comments to two minutes. The chair may grant additional time for speakers who have follow up questions or comments. In the event the public is unable to access this meeting. And I would get notice of that probably be an email. And then we'll have to be continued to a time and place certain. And they all hand the meeting back over to the chair. Great. Thank you, Meredith. The next time on the agenda is the approval of the agenda. So is there a motion to approve the agenda as printed. So moved. Motion by Joe is there a second. A second. A second from Michael. Thank you. Thank you. Because we're in this hybrid format, I will call the roll to keep everything on record. All those in favor of approving the agenda as printed, Michael. Yes. Rob. Yes. Joe. Yes. And I also vote. Yes. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is comments from the chair. So I really want to thank everybody for being nimble and being open to changing guidance and the uncertainty that comes with it, particularly staff who are helping us today. Everybody is making the time to attend and folks who are willing to mask up as we all adjust. Thank you. All right. The next item on the agenda is the minutes of July 6 2021. And we do not have in attendance enough of the people who are at that meeting at this meeting to vote on it. So we will defer the minutes of July 6 until our next meeting. Okay. So, You remind me what we do when the screen goes blue. Yeah. It just reset. Okay. Yeah. So nobody from zoom, you guys didn't see anything. It's just our big display screen up here. Sometimes times out. It gets hot or something. Yeah. So I guess. All right. So the first item on our agenda is 83 terrace street, a conditional use review of the construction of a 20 by 20 foot, 20 foot by 20 foot accessory building with a, as originally proposed with a bathroom to be used as a home industry. So what I'm going to do just. First, I'll just let you know kind of how the flow goes for all of this. So we'll swear in anybody who wishes to be heard and those folks may be present or on zoom. We will get an overview of the project from Meredith. We'll get an overview of the project from the applicant. And then we'll walk through the staff report, which Meredith has provided and focus on those items where we need a little more information or where board members may have questions. And then we'll see an opportunity for neighbors to be heard or interested parties to be heard. This is a conditional use review, and that means that use may kind of like making eye contact to the screen I know that's not the right thing to do but those are uses that may be allowed in certain areas, a zoning district that are different enough from what typically happens in that zoning district that there's an extra level of review by a panel, the development review board to make sure the criteria are met. So to do that we'll look at a set of general standards which apply to all development, and then we'll look at a set of conditional use review standards which apply to apply to conditional uses. So with that, if the applicant would like to come to the table I'll swear you in. Great. And if anybody on zoom is interested in being heard speaking to the application if you could raise your right hand I'll swear you in. Karen, I don't know. You're just here to listen. Yeah, so Karen if you can, you can. Yeah, raise your right hand and if you can unmute that would be great but it's not absolutely necessary because we can see you. Yeah, I'm good. Awesome. Thank you. So, if you'd please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of poetry. I do. Very good. Thank you all. All right, so I'll turn to Meredith for an overview of the project. Okay, so Kate already sort of summarizes a little bit. So I'm going to hit just some of the highlights of things that maybe we're going to want to focus on. So the applicant is, as Kate said, proposing to build a new accessory structure, and that structure is going to be used to house a chiropractic business. It's, we aren't really looking at the way that business is classified in our regs, other than for like parking needs and other things like that because it is being conducted on the same parcel as the applicant's home. I really focus on the home office home business home industry section, which says that this is therefore qualified, counted as a conditional use in this zoning district, no matter what the table of uses with otherwise say. There, there are some questions that need to be looked at with regard to you know I have a question here about the uses but it's really for the board to just walk through that that's one reason that's in red is to make sure you guys walk through that reasoning clearly. And then there's some questions about the erosion control plan and stormwater management that we're really more about working out the details of a project like this and getting dpw input and we've gotten some more input from the applicant on that so when it's timely we'll be able to pull that forward. I wasn't sure how many of you were here so I will probably email that to Rob and Joe and Michael in just a minute so you guys have it. And we've got input from dpw so we'll be talking about that. And then it's really going to be the board needing to go through those conditional use standards. That's going to be the heavy lift. And there's there's a little bit of discussion about parking spaces but again that's, I don't think those are big issues it's really going to be the conditional use standards, and making sure that the board feels examines whether or not there are any other conditions that need to be placed on this proposal to have it actually fit in with the neighborhood. Thank you. All right, so we'll turn to you and whoever's going to speak if you could first introduce yourself and then and then go right ahead. Okay, sure. So, I'm Jay, and this is the proposal. So, I'm not exactly sure because I haven't done this before everyone received the materials should I go through everything I wrote. That's a good question. Thank you. I should have said that we did receive materials so we've seen your summary of responses to the conditional use criteria, and then in the staff report we have Meredith preliminary assessment of how those fit. So you don't need to go through each each and every one of those but if there's anything that you want to add that you think it's important for us to know over and above what Meredith said or to emphasize anything that she said, you can let us know that. Okay. I actually think the report in the emails is fairly complete. So my proposal is to operate my chiropractic business from my home. It would be seeing between seven and nine people a day four days a week. Between the hours of eight in the morning and six in the evening. It's a very quiet business so I think it is in character with the neighborhood, as far as, you know someone would arrive at my home, come into the accessory building and we just be in there together for 45 minutes quiet conversation. No extra lighting, nothing like that. So a couple of changes. I, I found out that I'm able to put a bathroom in my basement that can be accessed from the driveway. So I'm removing the piece about bringing water and sewer lines to the accessory building, we would only bring power there. And because of bathrooms not needed there. Also I was reduced the size. Okay, so instead of 20 by 20 it'll be 16 by 20, and that's reflected in the drainage sketches. Would you guys like me to talk about the drainage. Sure yeah since that was one of the highlighted issues and we're looking for a little more information is left to hear more about that I think Meredith has just sent those sketches to the, to the board members who are remote. So let's just show where there's gutters along the roof lines and leaders coming down, and then that all drain into a pipe to go down at the base of my art into daylight. And one of the comments from DPW was to have a dry well there. So we'll put about eight cubic feet of clean cut stone, where that drain comes out ultimately probably about, it's about 30 feet from the building. That's the end of my property. Let's see, and then. So drainage, the erosion plan had considered was asking about the silt fence during construction. And so Department of Public Works clarified that we put that on the downside of construction. So Meredith said there's some topographical maps but essentially I believe it's two sides of the project would have the silt fence to control for erosion during the project. Is there any, you know, I'm happy to respond I'm not sure how much else there is beyond what's been submitted in print. Those, those are some of the key issues that we're outstanding maybe what I'll do at this point is pause and turn to my board met my, my board member team and asked. Are there any questions from board members about anything we've discussed so far. I did send you the emails but I can also pull things up and share them on the zoom screen if somebody needs me to. Would that be helpful Rob. Board members I'll trust you to please pipe up. There's the microphone, not over there with some of the people are running through the run through the figures on the screen real quickly will be great. Okay, we'll do that thanks. I have just modeled what I was going to suggest which is please pipe up if you do want to get in because I won't always be able to look at the screen. Alright so here's the stormwater plan, right and the modified footprint of the new structure. Right so it's made 20 feet by 16 feet now they've reduced it, as Jay said because of the not needing a bathroom in it anymore. And it's just one porch in front right day not two porches like it was originally. There's the gutters in various locations. And does the front leader go down to drainage that goes underneath. Okay. And then that will go back here to daylight towards the back of the property. And then hold on I gotta change my share screen to a different document sorry. And then there's this other figure. Show that front porch foundation. And how they've got the drains down so you've got the different leaders right from the gutters that go all the way down and connect to footing drains that go out and then dream towards the back. So where that goes out at the back is where Kurt has asked to have a dry well but to control that water and make sure it gets down even further into the ground. Is that good Rob. Yeah yeah I mean I think that you know it would be nice just to roughly sketch on the kind of like rough site overall site plan there of like just some arrows of like direction that things are going for final but I think that we can address that in our condition and no big deal. Great. Right. Michael are you all good do you need me to keep up anything or stop. Yeah, I don't need any of the visuals I'm just curious the applicant doesn't mind taking, you know, two or three minutes and just sort of explain. And I know it's all written out but just explain how they envision like the daily workflow traffic customers. Just a quick overview of that would be helpful. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, you know essentially the first person might come at nine o'clock. So someone would drive into my driveway at nine o'clock. And without parking. I have, there's a cut out in the driveway in front of the garage so people will be instructed to pull in and turn around so they're facing forward towards Terrace Street. And then they can park parallel along the north side of the driveway. And there's room for three cars to park parallel along that north side of the driveway. You know, there's plenty of room in the driveway to drive past those cars. So that space in front of the garage will be left open, so people will come in. So a car would come in say nine o'clock come in turn around park. The person would leave their car walk through my gate and to the accessory building for the appointment come in through the front door. And then we'd be together for the appointment. I wouldn't imagine that any sound would be heard outside the building because it's quiet talking and hands on work. So, approximately 45 minutes later that person would walk out my gate getting their car go. And depending on if someone's if people are on time there wouldn't be overlap, but of course sometimes someone's a little earlier someone's a little late. So the next car would drive in do the same thing turn around park parallel, and then the next person would walk back about 45 minutes after the first. The way I usually run my day there's four people that would come. So let's say that was between about nine and one. And then there's a break in the middle of the day. And then maybe between two and six there would be four more people. So that's usually how a day goes. So you're looking for Michael. Yeah, that that's good. So I mean, and it's, is this appointment only. It's appointment only. So it's all predictable nobody, nobody just shows up. Right. So you don't wait. Yeah, that's, that's great. Thank you. No, yeah. Thanks for that question, Michael. Other questions from board members. Okay. Well, good. We've covered a lot of the things that were kind of outstanding in the staff report. What I want to do, there is one kind of. It's sort of a threshold question about the use itself so what I'd like to do is turn to the staff report. Because we are looking at a use that Meredith has advised us is likely a home industry. And I'd like the board to have a discussion to confirm that that that is the, the use. So the idea between home business home, what are the three, home office business and industry, home office businesses and industry is that those are the types of things that can be compatible on land if you have it. But each has a different sort of intensity and so there's a different type of look that we would take out it in different ways we could choose to mitigate any impact if necessary. So, Meredith has advised. Well, first of all, there aren't definitions of these in our zoning definitions section, but there are descriptions about what sorts of things happen at each each scale. So the, the reason I believe that a home industry has been selected has to do with them, the amount of coming in going that there are more than 10 trips. It's not a day because a trip in is one and trip out is two. So each time a person comes and goes it's it's two things not one. So, yeah, so is there anything else you want to say about home industry. What that means is that the, the business is conducted on site by residents of the dwelling, which we've heard you testify you are. Will there be any non resident employees. Okay. And the way you've described the business makes it pretty clear there won't be exterior storage of goods and materials. No concrete blocks and that's no commercial vehicles are not associated with the business. And there are no on set site sales. The services are the goods on premises that the services provided on premises premises. Will there be any sign. I wasn't planning on the door of the accessory building itself. I'd like to have a sign so people know they're in the right place but I don't plan to have a sign at the street. Okay, once you've figured out what you want, just reach out to, to Audra or myself, there are some sites, some signs that you can put right next to your door that depending on the size, don't need any kind of permit at all. And then others if you want to go a little bit bigger, it would just be an administrative permit. So just figure out what you want. And then email myself or Audra will help you get that. Thank you. So I will ask board members as far as that classification as home industry does that. So is that is that your assessment as well that it does qualify is classified as a home industry. Any concerns or questions about that. Yeah, I mean I think that that that makes sense. So what you went through I think that any, any expansion of, you know, for what's being proposed would be outside of that but I think that that's pretty, pretty clear cut into like what's been proposed that it's confined to what it is so not worried about that. Thank you. Any other comments on the use classification from board members. What I'd like to do next then is just ensure that we've covered the general use standards and then look a little at the character the conditional use standards and confirm we have what we need there. Board members, looking at the general standards. As we know those have to do with use is we've just discussed dimensional standards and accessory structures setbacks and coverage or Matt. The other areas are demolition riparian areas wetlands and vernal pools steep slopes none of which are really applicable in this case but I always like to pause and ask if there are any questions from board members. Hearing none will go on to erosion control and stormwater, which we've discussed a little bit. I don't have any further questions about those the board members want any additional detail to help them make a determination. Okay. Section 3010 3011 our access and circulation and parking and loading respect, respectively, which we've just discussed further questions there. And we'll have clarification on that so that maybe it's in here but just for speed on the street or will people be pulling into the driveway. To me to answer it in the driveway, no one would park on the street. It's quite a long driveway. Good clarification thank you. All right. What we'll do next then is move on to the conditional use standards. The standards are in section 3302 the capacity of community facilities and utilities and this is typically to make sure that the use is not very burdensome on the sewer system or the water or the school or the stop lights. And we've heard that this is a very low intensity use. And those things seem to be met. And I think it's important to me that there's not a disproportionate or unreasonable burden, which, and I think we can agree that there is not. Similarly, 3303 is traffic. And we have to find that the coming and goings will not create an undue adverse impact that substantially greater than what's currently in the neighborhood. I want to see if board members have any comments or questions about that. And then the last set of standards has to do with, and I realize I'm going a little faster than usual and I want to note Karen is here as well Karen you will be welcome to chime in before it's all over. And we can revisit any of these that you might have a question about. The neighborhood has to do with compatibility of architecture of scale of building how much green space versus not how much level of activity is there. I think the one thing we wanted to ask you about was, is there, is there much vegetation on the site that will be removed in order to construct this and is there any landscaping plans. So, other than grass we're not going to remove anything no trees nothing like that. And, you know I would like to do some planting around the building, but I don't have a set plan yet so. So the answer is yes we do some planting around to make it nice and I don't know exactly what that'll look like yet. Yeah. Right now it's set there's two mature white pines to the one side of that building and a mature maple tree in front of it. So it's, you know there's quite a lot of and then trees in the back to so yeah. There's a lot of screening, and there's some discussion. So there may be some screening between between properties perhaps with a fence that is under consideration yeah my neighbors the landways on the south side would like to have a privacy fence and I'd like that to be part of the plan. So that would go from, I actually already have part of my backyard is fenced from the corner of that existing fence to approximately at the end of my garage they want that part. So that they can garden and not have people see them garden. Okay, I'm glad you're able to have that discussion. Yeah, I had a fun thank you for doing that. I think they also at least at six feet is fine. So Meredith had had questions about permitting but yeah, great, great thinking ahead. All right. Okay, as far as as far as the character of the area is concerned are there any further further questions or concerns. Okay, there's usually more talking going on. So you know, this is unusually quiet fear be hearing which is good. I think it doesn't mean anything is wrong. That's just where we are. Great so so our standard that we need to as a board determine has been met is that this is compact based on the uses. The coming and going the traffic the hours of operation that this is compatible and consistent with the neighborhood as a whole so I'm gathering from my fellow board members that that we are comfortable with that. The white cameras. I know but I know it's hard. I guess I just saw the, I don't know that if possible, in addition to the arrows, maybe sketch a couple of the major trees, not features on the site plan might be good for the record to tie things together just to document what we have discussed. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that can definitely be conditioned to have the final site plan to the fence and the major trees, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you that is that is a good idea for the record even though a site plan is not required for this use it does illustrate how the different standards within the conditional use review are met. Great. When you say direction you mean the direction of the drainage. Yeah which way the water flow. Okay. So, I will ask if anyone else wants to make a comment at this point there and if you would like to weigh in or ask any clarifying questions or express any concerns you'd be welcome to do that. Okay. Thank you and my husband Jim is with me and we actually live across the street from the property our property. The end of our property is directly across from James. They are incredibly good neighbors, very conscientious, they made certain to reach out to every one of us directly. I don't think you have anything to worry about with what she's doing I also in my note in made it clear that I'm actually a client of James so I can speak to now she runs your practice in her current setting, and everything you've heard is exactly the same. It's a quiet situation, very low key, and it's rarely the case that I cross paths with anybody else in the office these days so, you know, it's not a problem from our perspective. We have no concerns about the level of traffic that will be added. We also know her property pretty well because actually before she bought it we looked at it, before we bought the house for a now. So it's got a big backyard, it's got lots of space and access and the trees and the descriptions that she's giving you are really accurate. And I don't expect that there'll be any concerns, other than what she talked about for for the landways and everyone around here is pretty, pretty comfortable with each other and pretty upfront with each other about what's going on. We totally support her for effort. And, and should they ever sell it our perspective was in addition this is a neighborhood that particularly when it gets a deer field and dairy lane, you're starting to see some accessory dwelling unit concepts available for people in the neighborhood because there's a lack of that around and I think that from my perspective fits into the city's desire to have that available, obviously it would have to be adjusted if that ever happened. But that was another thought for me in the future if they ever sell property that that would be something obviously have to come back to the to the board but those kinds of uses are perfect for this neighborhood so I'm glad to know the structure is compatible and the uses could be flexible. One thing in time, I guess, but, but good. Thank you Karen and when there are two people joined on zoom I always invite the other people, the other person to speak as well. Jim would like to speak at all. Thank you. Okay, you're welcome. All right, I don't think anyone else here to be heard on this so. So, board members we have talked about some details to be added to the to the plan, showing direction of stormwater flow as well as major landscaping or major existing landscaping features we've confirmed that the home industry use is appropriate. And that the conditional use standards have been met I believe so what I would like to do is entertain a motion from the board. Regarding this application is there a motion. I would like to make a motion here to grant conditional use approval for a chiropractic office as home industry within a new 500 80 square foot accessory structure and the construction of that structure at 83 Tara Street as proposed an application for 2020 one 0085 and supporting and supplemental materials subjects the following conditions of approval prior to permit issuance up and shall submit to the zoning administrator final plans including a rose and control details, including locations, stormwater details, both as approved by the Department of Public Works and on the site plan sketch just some flow arrows, maybe the proposed fence, and the, you know, major, you know, landscaping features such as trees with better document things so that's what we have. Thank you Rob we have a motion from Rob is there a second. A second. That was a second from Joe. Is there any discussion. I would like to offer a friendly amendment that testimony at the beginning. It's going to be a smaller instead of 20 by 20 it's going to be 16 by 20. So just for the square footage I think that's 320. Yeah, thank you. And I'll make double check the numbers and just make sure that whatever we approve at the end of the decision is the right number. Thank you. Okay any further discussion. All right, motion by by Rob and a second by Joe and since there's no further discussion I will call the roll all those in favor Michael. Yes. Rob. Yes. Joe. Yes. Yes. So we have approved this proposal. And what happens next is that there will be a written decision issued. And after that point there is a 45 day window. Nope, no, so there's a 45 day window to issue the written decision. So between now but we'll get it out much sooner than that. And then there's a 30 day appeal period after that decision. Because one of the conditions is going to be the final plans. You and I can we can talk tomorrow and talk about how to do that. I'll be in the office if I don't know what your, what your schedule is like the next two days I'll be in the next two days, if you have any windows in there to come in. And we can talk about like how to make that look. Because I can't issue the permit until I get those final plans. I think it would be great if we can issue the permit in the decision, all at the same time. Yeah, we'll work it out. I think I think that with Kurt's approval of what we got before, we'll be able to just incorporate that into a site plan where you can draw it on with different colors and things. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I would just note that the colored pencils on top of what you provided would be really, really nice and totally sufficient. Perfect. Thank you, Rob. That was my thought as well colored pencils or highlighters they both weren't great. Yeah. All about communication it works. It works. Great. Thank you so much for for coming and for participating. And best of luck. Thanks. You're welcome. The 30 days is that from today or from the written from the written decision 30 day appeal period is from the written decision. Great question. You're welcome. Good night. Good night. All right, so the next item on the agenda is other business. And the other business is that our next meeting is Tuesday, September 7 2021, instead of a Monday it's on a Tuesday, due to the Labor Day holiday. Is there any other business. I don't think so. Okay, I would like to remind folks that I was looking for members for the, not always. We are now currently looking for members of the DRB so please spread the word and get in touch with myself or Meredith if you know of anyone who might like to be a part of it. And with that, I will take a motion to adjourn. So moved. Motion by Rob is there a second. Second, second from Joe. I'll call the roll all those in favor, Michael. Yes, Rob. Yes. And I vote yes, as well. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you all very much. Thank you.