 The final item of business is a member's business debate on motion 10262, in the name of Rona Mackay, on opening of Scotland's first bairns of hoose. This debate will be concluded without any questions being put, and I would ask those members who would wish to speak in the debate to please press the request of speak buttons, and I call on Rona Mackay to open the debate around seven minutes, please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Members' debates often highlight crisis or serious issues that generate political division and ranker. That is why I am overjoyed and honoured to bring such a genuine, good news story to the chamber, one of which Scotland, Scotland's Government and partner organisations can be very proud. The opening of Scotland's first bairns hoose last month means that at last we can reform how children and young people are treated by the justice system in Scotland. It is an enormous and joyous achievement and marks a whole new way of supporting young people who find themselves in our justice system traditionally designed for and by adults. That is because the bairns hoose has been designed in collaboration with children and young people for children and young people and includes calming wall colours, soft and comfortable furnishings and a safe and secure garden that will offer breathing space for those who need it. Before I go on to describe more about the background to the birth of the bairns hoose in Scotland, I would like you to hear the quote from Jasmine, now aged 18, visiting Scotland's first bairns hoose in North Strathclyde. When I went to court, I had to sit in an empty box room with no windows, no suites or anything and a few broken toys. I was nine years old. If you are coming from dealing with something terrible, you do not want to come somewhere broken when you already feel broken. It is good to know that kids can come to the bairns hoose and it is a safe place. There are so many people to thank for making this innovative project a reality. Huge congratulations must go to Children First and the many third sector organisations that led the way in this fantastic initiative in conjunction with the Scottish Government. They were supported by Victim Support Scotland, University of Edinburgh, Children England and £1.5 million from the postcode dream fund, which is made possible by the players of the People's Postcode Lottery. In the last Parliament, the former Justice Committee, of which I was and still am a member of the present one, travelled to Norway to visit the bairns hoose there. It is safe to say that all members were blown away by what we witnessed. This was a world away from an intimidating courtroom full of scary adults and old stuff. All the care and support that a child in their family needs is delivered under one roof in a welcoming and safe environment. Legal and medical professionals come to them, not the other way round. I am delighted to say that the first bairns hoose will support children, young people and members of their family, from my own local authority area of Eastern Bartonshire, as well as East Renfrewshire, Inverclyde and Renfrewshire. On November 1 this year, the barn hoose in Iceland will celebrate its 25th anniversary. Children first supported a delegation from Scotland to visit Iceland in 2017, which directly led to the hoose opening and the work of the European Promise Network, which is a network that connects European practice to develop and commit to the barn hoose quality standards. Over context, in the past year, the Children First bairns hoose recovery team has supported 104 children in 90 families going through the child protection and justice system in North Strathclyde. Now that the hoose is open, it will be used as a new centre for this work. Young people who experience abuse and violence will be able to get all the protection, care, justice and recovery support that they need under one roof. Crucially, they can avoid the need to repeatedly share their story over and over. At the moment, children who experience hurt and harm are processed through a complex system of care and justice and are asked to retell and relive traumatic experiences over and over, sometimes up to 14 times. That whole process creates standalone trauma. We cannot always stop bad things happening to children and young people, but we can do everything in our power to help them recover and heal. Why do we need a barn hoose? It is a place where children and young people are interviewed and medically examined for forensic purposes, assessed and received recovery services from the right people all in one place. It is a trauma-informed space designed to reduce feelings of anxiousness, fear and a lack of support and control that are so often associated with victims and witnesses' experience of the justice system. Sadly, the scale of harm children and young people in Scotland experience is significant. At least 37 of the 14,602 sexual crimes recorded in 2223 by police related to a victim under the age of 18. Exhausting delays in cases mean that fear and anticipation surrounding going to court can last years, and repeated adjournments mean that anxiety and stress build repeatedly up to a court date. Children and families tell us that court buildings feel unsafe and untrustworthy. Giving evidence in court can be brutal for adults. Just imagine what it is like for a child. One of the major aims of the barn hoose is to support the gathering of high-quality pre-recorded evidence that can be used in court so that the number of times children have to tell us that they can be reduced as far as possible. It has advanced technical facilities, including space to record evidence and to deliver live links to court. The high-quality set-up should remove the need for children to attend court at all, which would be the aim. Children and young people have their right to recovery. Article 39 of the UNCRC states that children have that right. However, that part often gets lost in child protection and justice processes that have been traditional. The Scottish Government committed in the programme for government to launch pathfinders this autumn, which will support new work in partnerships to develop among agencies. There is a strong commitment across police, justice, health, social work and the third sector leaders to deliver that transformation, which will realise children's rights to justice and recovery. However, we must ensure that children have the option to pre-record or live-link to the court. The launch of the barn hoose is not just an event. It is a promise that we will treat children and young people who have been abused and traumatised with the respect and dignity that they deserve. In conclusion, let us remember the words of Nelson Mandela. There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats its children. I offer my congratulations to all those who have worked so hard to make this possible. Together, let's continue to nurture and protect our most precious asset, our children. I thank Rona Mackay for bringing this very timious member's debate forward and for highlighting the establishment of the first barn hoose in Scotland located in North Strathclyde. We could almost feel Rona Mackay's sense of sheer delight in her opening remarks and rightly so. The implementation of Scotland's first barn hoose is very welcome and I know will support and benefit the children and families who may one day use its services. As already highlighted, barn hoose seeks to protect children who come into contact with the criminal justice system after they have experienced, participated in or witnessed significantly harmful behaviour. Through minimising a child's engagement with the courts and by creating a more welcoming and therapeutic environment with access to specialist services, children are supported to better recover from the traumatic events that they have endured. Indeed, the barn hoose model, the model that Bairns Hoose is based on, consistently demonstrates positive outcomes, including less risk of a child becoming retraumatised from having to recount their experiences. The barn house environment is far more favourable than that of a police station or a court and the model has seen an improvement in the conviction rate for sexual abuse or child sexual abuse cases. There are many ways in which children can enter the justice system perhaps through civil proceedings such as adoption or even through matters of immigration. Each case can be difficult for a child to navigate and, while those cases can be harmful for children, there are none that place a child more at risk than that of violence and abuse. In a modern day justice environment, the barn house model has a very important role to play. Reflecting on my own experience as an investigator of serious and complex sexual crime, some involving children progress has very much been made. I recall how excited we were when Grampian police decorated a room on the fourth floor of police headquarters. We put a sofa in and soft lighting and a box of toys, and we were really proud that we felt that this was a first step towards a multi-agency response to child sexual offences. I recently found a copy of a report that I co-wrote as part of a review of child protection services in Grampian police back in 2006. I was slightly bemused to read the concept that joint working should be borne in mind during any future expansion of family protection services, thus enabling partners to co-locate alongside police. That could be as simple as factoring in some spare office accommodation and car parking facilities. I am glad to say that progress and a lot of progress has been made since then. Members will be aware that Scotland's approach to investigating allegations of child sexual abuse has more recently been informed by Lady Dorian's report on the management of sexual offences. The Bairnshoose model aligns with the recommendations that are outlined in the report, which highlights the importance of improving the experiences of children in the justice system. I am pleased that the programme for government includes the launch of a Bairnshoose pathfinder, as Rona Mackay referenced, as part of the work to develop a whole system approach for children experiencing abuse and harm. Of course, the victims, witnesses and justice reform bill will see further reform to improve the experiences of children coming into the criminal justice system. In closing, I very much look forward to following the progress of the newly opened Bairnshoose and to the model being further developed across Scotland in line with our commitment to improve the experiences of children coming into the system. My thanks again to Rona Mackay for bringing this important topic to the chamber, and I look forward to listening to other members' contributions. I thank Rona Mackay for bringing it to the chamber this evening. The opening of Scotland's first Bairnshoose is indeed a very welcome addition to the judicial process, and I sincerely hope that we will see more of them open all over Scotland. I want to take a quick moment to mention Children First, Victim Support Scotland, the University of Edinburgh, Children England and all the participants of the postcode lottery for their backing and for the help to make this dream of a secure and safe place for children, young people and families become a reality. In what is the most traumatic of experiences during the most distressing and disturbing of times, a calming and safe environment with children and young people at its heart is indeed a great step forward. Imagine you are a mum sitting in the gallery of a courtroom watching your daughter recount the harrowing and disturbing events that took place over two and a half years ago when she was 17. It has been with her every day of the two and a half years while she waits for the case to come to trial. It is the fourth date she has been given by the courts, but there is always some reason for the trial to be postponed, prolonging her anxiety and adding to her torment. You know she has had to recount this story again and again and again over the years in back rooms of police stations and in council offices, and with the best will in the world, these rooms are gloomy, oppressive and sparse, where the gray of her emotions blend with the feelings in the room. You also know she feels humiliated, disgusted with herself and ashamed that she is once again forced to relive the events of that night, what was forced on her, what she should now do differently if she could only go back, and how she must now own up to what society has made her feel is, at least, partially her fault. You know she will have to stand there whilst the defence indicates the events did not happen, implying to everyone that she is a liar and that you know the chances of justice will be served is slim at best. You watch your usually strong, self-astured, beautiful daughter start to flick the hair band on her wrist and nervous twitch from when she was a child and then she crumbles and breaks down on the stand, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to help her. She is standing not only not more than a few feet away from the accused and the screen is doing nothing more than blocking a view, but you can see from her actions that it's not minimising the effect of the person in the room. As a parent you'd do anything to make this better if only every step of the process was just made that little bit better. That is why facilities like Bairns Hoos are so important. Being able to use a safe space to give evidence, knowing that the process is as good as it can possibly be under the circumstances and providing a secure foundation towards recovery and moving on with a positive life must be the goal. The secure accommodation is only part of it and we in this place must assure that additional support for victims and witnesses are included in all processes moving forward if that goal is to be achieved. I sincerely hope that this is the start not only for more Bairns Hoos across Scotland but for a proper shift in the way that our judicial system views its victims, especially young and vulnerable witnesses, because that is the only way that the scales of justice will be rebalanced. I congratulate Drona Mackay on securing this important debate and warmly welcome her initiative, which has led to this issue being debated in the chamber today. I also want to place on record my thanks to Victim Support Scotland, Children First and the other organisations that have been involved in the opening of Scotland's first Bairns Hoos. As Drona Mackay has already said, Bairns Hoos is based on Iceland's renowned model and seeks to bring the needs of child victims and witnesses together with justice, health, social work and recovery support at a single point of contact. As an NMSP for West Scotland region, I like Drona Mackay and I am very pleased that the first Bairns Hoos will be supporting child victims and witnesses in East Dunbartonshire, East Renfrewshire, Inverclyde and Renfrewshire. It is important that all illable children are able to access such facilities so that they can get the trauma-informed support that this model provides. I look forward to hearing how the Bairns Hoos develops and its effect on outcomes. I would be grateful if the minister was able to provide an update today and commit to future parliamentary updates on the pro-progress being made towards widening access to Bairns house, to eligible children across Scotland and, indeed, other initiatives that enable child victims and witnesses to get access to trauma-informed practices. Ahead of today's debate, Victim Support Scotland reiterated its concerns that some local authorities may choose to use Bairns Hoos as a place of safety for a child who has caused harm. If that was the case, potentially that could increase the risk of retraumatising victims and witnesses, including child victims, undermining the very purpose of Bairns Hoos as a service. Therefore, I would be grateful if the minister could respond to the concerns being raised and address why Victim Support Scotland is calling for the Scottish Government to guarantee that Bairns Hoos in Scotland will be used as a place of safety under the Age of Criminal Responsibility Scotland Act 2019. I hope that the minister will give the guarantee today and perhaps outline how the Scottish Government will establish trauma-informed needs and support service required for children who have caused harm, but also ensure that the needs of other victims have their rights addressed. Bairns Hoos is a key part of improving the experiences of child victims and witnesses in Scotland's justice system, but we all recognise that it is not the sole solution to the problem. That is why many stakeholders have raised concerns about the proposed children care and justice bill currently being scrutinised by Parliament. The concern is that the bill provides a lack of provision that ensures that support and information is in place for victims who have been harmed by children and that, potentially, it creates an imbalance between the rights of the child who has caused harm over that of the child victim. There are also issues with the bill in terms of the lack of information-sharing provisions and the lack of safety planning and risk management measures. As the minister will know, a number of stakeholders, including Victim Support Scotland, Rape Crisis Scotland and Women's Aid, have come together to suggest a number of changes that could be made to the bill. In responding to the debate today, I urge the Scottish Government to seriously consider what is being said and ensure that legislation going forward truly delivers an improved experience for child victims and witnesses in Scotland. Bairns who alone will not transform the experience of all child victims and witnesses in Scotland, but it is a very important development that I very much warmly welcome. For that reason, I associate myself with Rona Mackay and, indeed, all the other members who have spoken in the debate and congratulate again all those who have been involved in opening Scotland's first Bairns house. I congratulate Ross McCall on what I thought was a hugely, profoundly moving contribution. I think that it illustrates that this is a debate that comes from a dark place, but, hopefully, as Rona Mackay indicated, it provides some cause for optimism. We are moving in the right direction. I also pay tribute to my good friend Rona Mackay for her personal efforts both in securing this debate, but on this particular issue she and I were members of the Justice Committee in the last session. I like to think that we played our part in making strides to where we are today in highlighting the benefits of the Bairns house model and in building the evidence base for that and making the compelling case to government. I think that she referred to the trip that the committee made to Norway to see first hand Bairns house in practice. I think that that had a very profound effect on all of us and I think that it developed the cross-party commitment to apply what pressure we could on the government to go forward and deliver. I think that there may be a perception now that we were pushing against an open door, but I know that there were concerns at that stage about how transferable that joined up multidisciplinary approach across child protection, justice, health, recovery service could be in a Scottish context. I think that Audrey Nicholl spoke to that from her own personal experience, but I think that there was absolutely no doubt that, while the needs of the Scottish context needed to be taken into account, there was absolutely no doubt that this was a model that could be rolled out in Scotland. There was a reference made previously to the Dorian review. Let me put on record my gratitude to Lord Carlaway for the earlier review undertaken in 2013, which I think again paved the way, making the argument and I quote, that taking the evidence of young and vulnerable witnesses requires special care and that's subjecting them to the traditional adversarial form of examination and cross examination is no longer acceptable. I think that that is now the received wisdom and we are in a different place 10 years on. We've seen the Victim and Witnesses Act in 2014 in the pre-recording and other protections put in place, but I think we can't be complacent. The Edinburgh University report in relation to the first stage of the current project indicated that children are still being asked to go to court in almost all cases and I think that's a real concern. Moving away from court-based evidence, is he going to require a culture shift? It will need people to change habits and trust new processes and I think there was strong support in the Justice Committee in the last session for that and I've no doubt that Rona Mackay and her colleagues will be equally supportive of that going forward. In the past, as I've said, there can be no justice in a system where victims report that their experiences of that system are actually worse than the crime itself. For children and young victims, telling and retelling what has happened to them over and over and over again simply re-traumatises. Doing that in environments that are inappropriate, unfriendly and even adversarial makes this many times work, further harming rather than healing. I'm delighted that this project has been taken forward in North Scullide and joined others in congratulating Children First Victim support Scotland, Edinburgh University, Children England and give thanks to Postcode Lottery for the funding enabling this to happen. It's an approach that puts the needs and rights of children and young people at the centre of child protection and justice processes. As Children First acknowledge, while it isn't always possible to stop bad things happening, we should be moving mountains to help children and young victims to recover. I recognise we're probably a long way away from achieving the complete roll-out by 2025. I know Victim support Scotland referred to that in its briefing. It's perhaps another example of where the Government needs to be careful in not underestimating the complexities and not over-promising what can be delivered, but I think that the model that we're seeing and the roll-out of that so that we learn as we go is absolutely the right one. We want to see this rolled out more widely. I'm keen in particular to see progress made in identifying how this might be made to work in our island communities, for example. The visit to Norway demonstrated that different approaches in urban and rural areas are often needed. The needs of children and young people aren't perhaps different, but the way in which those needs are met will certainly look and feel slightly different. I would be grateful if the Minister might be able to indicate when and when we might expect those sorts of developments in island and rural communities to take place. For now, I congratulate Rona Mackay once again. I congratulate all the partners involved in this and wish them the very, very best of luck. I now call Bill Kidd to be followed by John Swinney. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I may also take the opportunity, as others quite rightly have, to commend Rona Mackay on securing today's debate. I'd also like to thank all those who are involved in the development of Scotland's first bernsews, as mentioned in today's motion, alongside the support of the Scottish Government and its commitment to ensuring that this transformational approach to child welfare is rolled out nationally. The vision is for all children in Scotland to have been victims of or witnesses to abuse or violence, as well as children under the age of criminal responsibilities behaviour has maybe caused significant harm or abuse to have access to trauma informed recovery, support and justice. The need for such a service is evident when we consider that of the over 14,000 incidents of recorded sexual crimes in 2022-23, over a third related to a victim under the age of 18. It's been pointed out that, at the moment, children who experience hurt and harm can sometimes be processed through what can be seen as a complex system of care and justice in which they can be asked to retell or relive traumatic experiences many times over. One of the stated aims of the bernsews model would be to prevent children being re-traumatised and to improve the experience of the justice process for children and families. One of the ways that many stakeholders believe that this can be achieved is through bernsews, becoming a one-stop location for the number of services needed to support a victim's journey. The Scottish Government's literature echoes this possibility, stating that a key element of bernsews is the provision of a child-friendly setting that supports an integrated approach as part of the team around the child bringing together services in a four-rooms approach with child protection, health, justice and recovery services, all available in one setting, in line with getting it right for every child practice model and national guidance for child protection in Scotland. As a member of the education, children and young people committee, I welcome those aims. In evidence sessions on the children's care and justice Scotland Bill at stage 1 and in discussions that I have subsequently had with stakeholders, the bernsews model has been held up as a model that could address some of the concerns organisations have regarding over complexity within the system and the need for more efficient information sharing. In its stage 1 report, the committee reflected these points, recognising the Government's commitment to roll out the bernsews model for all child victims and witnesses of violence. However, it went on to note that stakeholders are unclear as yet as to how the bill will align with the bernsews model roll-out and ask the Scottish Government to clarify how those measures will work together. Although I appreciate that we are at the very early stages of the Government's pathfinder delivery plan and full roll-out scheduled from 2027, I would ask the minister to also reflect on how the model can be integrated into legislation currently going through Parliament to address any concerns. Unleash the full potential of the bernsews model and ensure that it is truly transformational. I know that we can trust the Scottish Government to follow up on this. I congratulate my colleague Rona Mackay on securing this debate, which provides Parliament with the opportunity to reflect on the significant moment that has been reached with the establishment of the first bernsews in Scotland. Rona Mackay's personal undiluted enthusiasm for this has been demonstrated so powerfully in the debate today, as has that point been reflected in the contributions of colleagues across the Parliamentary Chamber. That is a moment that has been reached due to the tenacity of many campaigners who have been determined to ensure that, when children face the most difficult of times that they should never ever have had to face, they can be supported effectively in being able to address that suffering. The bernsews is being taken forward by a partnership led by Children First, and involving Victim Support Scotland, the University of Edinburgh and Children England, crucial funding has been provided by the people's postcode lottery of £1.5 million. I welcome the participation of each partner. I hope that others will forgive me if I single out the exceptional contribution of Children First in ensuring that this milestone has been reached. From my ministerial experience, I vividly recall the energy and the commitment given by Children First to generate interest in and support for the concept of a bernsews. Modelled on the European Barnahouse model, the bernsews means that children and young people who experience abuse and violence will be able to get all the protection, care, justice and recovery support that they will need under one roof. That proposal will support children and young people in East Dunbartonshire, in Root-East, Renfrewshire, Inverclyde and Renfrewshire. The reason why Children First have been so tenacious in taking this idea forward is for the simple reason that this proposal puts the child right at the heart of the approach. The model aims to avoid the current situation, which means that children can often have to recount their experiences on a number of occasions when it has been bad enough that they have had to experience the circumstances once. The aim of the model is to ensure that all of the support that a child needs can be based around the child. It puts the child right at the centre of the process, assuring that the support that is brought to the child, rather than children having to join the dots of a compartmentalised adult design justice system. How many constituents have we all supported in that particular position? The way in which the project has developed sets out an important lesson for us about how reforms can and should take place in our society. Although the Scottish Government has been a very supportive party in this endeavour, and I am delighted that the Government has been so supportive, the initiative has rested with the third sector, principally through the work of Children First. The need for reform has been identified by the third sector and has been championed by the third sector. I hope that the Scottish Government and Scotland's local authorities will recognise the absolute necessity to be open to this type of initiative and to create the space to enable ventures of this type to thrive. Crucially, and if I can say so bluntly, not getting in the way of those reforms into the bargain, there has to be space left for the initiative of the third sector to find a route through some of the obstacles and barriers that inevitably crop up in engaging with the public sector. The bearing's hoose is a spectacular example of that in practice, and I congratulate everyone who has played a part in making this happen. I thank Rona Mackay for lodging this very important motion, and all members today for their contributions. I really welcome the opportunity to respond on behalf of the Scottish Government this afternoon. I would like to begin by sharing our support for the motion and our recognition of the significance of this milestone. The opening of this facility in North Strathclyde is, I know, the culmination of many years of hard work from a range of partners, and I congratulate them on this fantastic achievement. Children in North Strathclyde who are the victims or witnesses of abuse or violence will, through this service, be able to access protection, care and recovery services under one roof. I'm aware that the Scottish Government funding for engagement work with children and young people with lived experience of child protection and justice systems, the change makers, has played a central role in the design of the facility, and, as Ms Mackay describes in her motion and in her opening comments, it's led to the creation of a child-friendly nurturing environment. I want to thank Ms Mackay for her comments and her opening remarks, and I think the quote from Jasmine that she shared emphasises that this definitely is the right approach for children and young people in Scotland. I'd like to put on record my thanks to all those children and young people involved in that, and I look forward to visiting the site myself in the coming weeks to see the fruits of their commitment. Bringing the Barnahouse model to Scotland has been a long-standing cross-cutting policy ambition for a number of years and one that children first has long championed. Several years ago, as members referred to today, they organised a study visit to see the Barnahouse in Iceland, which included my predecessor and colleague Mr Matheson, who was then just a secretary. Since then, engagement with partners across agencies and Scottish Government has built a compelling case for the need for Bearnshouse in Scotland, and indeed, children first has been a key partner in the development of national Bearnshouse standards and sits on the national Bearnshouse governance group. Our vision for Bearnshouse is that all children in Scotland who have been victims or witnesses of abuse or violence, as well as children under the age of criminal responsibility, whose behaviour has caused significant harm or abuse, will have access to trauma-informed recovery, support and justice. That scope of access is ambitious when we look at other European countries who have already adopted the model. I want to assure the chamber that I can key consideration in the development of Bearnshouses, which will be taken into account in the development of the policy, will be balancing the rights and victims and those of the children whose behaviour has caused harm. Bearnshouse will build on the momentum of the new Scottish child interview model for joint investigative interviews, which is being introduced nationally from 2021 to 2024 and will be seen as the justice room of the Bearnshouse. A key aim of the Scottish child interview model, which has been supported by over £2 million funding from the Scottish Government, is to protect children and reduce stress when recounting their experiences. I note John Swinney's comments on the difference that that will make to the lives of children. I also thank Ross McCall for her moving contribution, while extremely difficult to serve to remind us why settings like that are so important and the steps that we take now will make to the lives of victims of harm. Growing evidence is already showing the benefits of the new model in practice. For example, interviewns in the north-east of Scotland partnership were able to use their specialist training to support a non-verbal child with complex needs to share details of their abusive experience for the first time. That new model for joint investigative interviews allows for partners to create bespoke plans for children's individual needs, resulting in improved experiences. There are many similar examples emerging of this momentous change in practice across Scotland. I know that Katie Clark wanted an update on progress, and I can give that now. Further to that, I am happy to keep the member in Parliament updated as that progresses. We have introduced a three-phase approach for the development of Bearnshaws, which builds on the necessary stages for learning and evaluation to enable the achievement of our ambition. The first phase, the Pathfinder phase, commences this year and will lead into a pilot phase ahead of national roll-out. The Pathfinders will show us how the recently published national Bearnshaws standards work in practice, enabling us to better understand and address the complexity of the necessary systemic change. Through the Pathfinders, we will start to improve the experience of children, young people and their families in the justice care and recovery services. In our programme for government that was announced last week, we committed to launching Bearnshaws Pathfinders in autumn 2023, a key action on our keeping the promise implementation plan and tackling child poverty delivery plan, enabling a whole system approach for child victims and witnesses of abuse and harm. It is through that phased approach to implementation that we seek to capitalise on the enthusiasm to deliver this transformational change for children who have experienced trauma. Our commitment to the agenda is clear in our investment of £6 million in 2023-24 to establish those Pathfinder partnerships, and we expect a similar level of investment to support Pathfinders next year. I thank the minister for taking the intervention. I do not necessarily expect a detailed response now, but let me put it on the record. Obviously, in an island context, paediatric forensics requires children and young people to be taken off island for examination at present, so the roll-out of any model in the islands is going to present additional challenges. Is there something in the way that the Pathfinders are being taken forward that might be able to explore how that holistic approach can be taken in that island context? I maybe cannot address the point directly, but I was about to come on to some of the concerns that you had raised during your comments. The assessment of applications to become Pathfinder partnerships is currently under way, and I am looking forward to our announcement of those successful Pathfinders next month. I want to emphasise that we want Bairntos to be adopted across Scotland, and we will also engage with those areas that are not Pathfinders so that they can share in the learning and build towards making Bairntos services available nationally. In relation to the comments from Liam McArthur, how that will work in rural areas will be considered, and we will be trialling Bairntos standards in a range of different contacts, so those things will be assessed through the Pathfinder phase. I would like to just to summon up, quote, Braggie Grubanson, member of the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child and Founder of the Barnahous model, who said of Barnahous, that there is no other viable way to deal with child abuse, but that we need to be patient, meaning that we need to be considered and get it right. Children and young people deserve this, and I think that our phased approach does exactly that. I would just like to close by reiterating the Scottish Government's wholehearted support for this motion and thanks to the partners who have worked so hard to get to this point. I thank Rona Mackay for the motion and look forward to the parliamentary event on this topic in November, where we will continue our constructive dialogue. Bairntos represents a significant step forward in improving our response for children who have experienced trauma, and we look forward to this next phase where we will work together to build on this momentum for them. Thank you.