 He said, hell, fire is going to take the maximum. I haven't been a Democrat even though he's been a Republican. He said, I'll personally, he told me this morning at 8 o'clock that I'll personally underwrite a half million dollars. He gave me three days, and I'll underwrite a million dollars. Minimum. So if he goes on that ticket, and he said you could sweep every state in the union, that's his opinion. I talked to Bob Anderson. He's trying to set up your, yesterday, trying to set up your, Senator Johnson up there. He talks to every one of those men. They've got a hell of a lot of good Republicans lined up. People like John Lowe. And they agreed to it, and they have second thoughts. And they come back, and John Lowe was sitting in his office and said, now, wait a minute. He said, I want to help the president. I'm for him. I'm going to be for him. But I can't get out here until I know who else will be on this ticket. So he said, if Kennedy's on the ticket, then I have to resign. I cannot support the ticket. And he said, I'd have to resign, but I'd hurt the president and hurt me if I were chairman of the Johnston Republican. And so that's the reaction that I get. In just a few people I've talked to, and I don't think he's any question about it. Now, Bobby Kennedy, maybe he's got these people in these delegations. He's got some of the party bosses up there. But hell, he can't make a contest out of it, as far as you're concerned. And I just don't think you ought to let it worry you. And I think you just go and do what you think is right. And I think whatever public utterance that you make on these civil rights, that New York, what the hell are they riding for? They've got a state FEPC. They've had it. They've got schools integrated. They've got the public accommodations. They've had it. They've got city FEPC. They've got every goddamn legal safeguard, much stronger than the federal government just passed. And they're still riding. And I think you just have to be as firm, just as you have been in New York, as you are in Mississippi, and just to make it abundantly clear, even if they continue to ride, that you cannot abide and not go and stand for disorderly conduct anywhere by anybody. Oh, trouble, I can't do that, because that's what Goldwater says. He's very nice from a police force. And I got to leave it up to the governor and the city and only help them when they let me. And they have let me in all these three states so far. And I'm getting the information that's worthwhile. They don't, you know, or FDI is pretty good. And they work with them pretty good. They like Hoover. All the governors do. Johnson works with them. And everyone of them don't. All of them work with FDI pretty good. All the state patrols do. They train most of them, you know, and stuff like that. But it's been lucky up to now. But I don't know what will happen with it. But I don't see the answer to this damn convention thing on seating. Well, I don't either. We just have to. Not then we'll have to meet that one. And that's going to be a tough problem, because I think Mississippi and Alabama ought to be seated. Yet they've got their rules. And I just don't know what the hell we're going to do. I do think it depends largely on what happens leading up to it. If they have 100,000 niggers up there or 10,000, making every time many, and they pick at this thing, because Alabama and Mississippi are being seated, and then the convention kicks them out. The impression throughout the country is going to be, well, they just got kicked out, because the niggers wanted to be kicked out. We talked to the National Commitment from Wisconsin yesterday, we talked to some of my staff. He's going to be on the delegation, one of the leaders of the delegation. And he's a Democrat. And he said he's against seating. And we said, why? Well, I got this just there stand on this nigger question. We said, how many niggers you got on your delegation? Not a goddamn one. They were Wisconsin. We said, you're sorry, son of a bitch. Be talking about somebody else. You haven't got a single nigger on your delegation. We said, we got a lot of them. I said, I guess that's right. But that's the kind of damn demographic you get. How many you got in Texas? Oh, we got eight or 10, I guess. How many you got on your delegation? That's what I mean. I know a total of 107. Yeah, 126. 10 to Mexican. Yeah, we got some. Got more niggers than we have in Mexico. But we got some Mexicans. And we got men and women and niggers and Mexicans. And we got them on at large. And we got them on. We got labor people. And we got every group in the world. Well, now there's only three people that have any strength, John, that we can talk about to get nominated. If I had my brothers and just could just put your button, I'd put McNamara. Because he just is, by far, the most helped to me of anybody. And that's out. There's not a one that's got a delegation, whether it's Lawrence, or whether it's Wagner, or whether it's Daley, or whether it's Minnesota, or whether it's California. The only single one of them go. They say that if we haven't got a Democrat in our own party, why wouldn't you do it? So that's that. You just can't get anywhere with it. Now, when you go on the Catholic thing, you don't get anybody that's really very strong on McCarthy. Clark Clifford thinks we may have to come to him. Because he just thinks that they'll say that they were discriminated against. And their man got cut down. And I came along. And the partisans took over. And the man that tried to defeat Kennedy in his lifetime and defeated him in his death, Johnson Humphrey. And we may have to go to somebody that doesn't cause any trouble like McCarthy. But he's about to, well, one thinks that the labor people, Meanie and Ruther and the Negro people, and the folks that do the work, got the votes and put up the money in the copes and all that for the party in these other states, they would generally stay with you for Humphrey against the other fellow. But they would be satisfied with either one of them. Now, those two plus McCarthy, and you can't have Stevens. And he's 63, and they just not impressed with him. Although I think he wouldn't be as antagonistic to South as he done for your body. But they would be after he got on the ticket. They don't like him, never have him, and so forth. But that's about what it adds up to. You really need somebody that's a good debater and good TV performer and can take them on cause you're tied down so damn hard, Miss Chow. Now, I don't want to say so, but I wish I knew some nice decent way just to let them fight it out and anybody wants to have it. Cause I don't think you'd want it. You've got trouble with Khrushchev and Castro. Say they're gonna shoot on your planes with many elections over. They're gonna save it for you then. And you just got more damn problems than I can handle. I'm just, I've got old enough and flabby enough that I just, I can't surmount all the obstacles. And I don't have the help and the advice and the counselors and the loved ones around you to do it. I've got every man in my cabinets, Kennedy man. Everybody in my, the heads of my department are all somebody else's men. Just kind of like you had Pristanyal men. And I haven't been able to change them and I don't have the personnel if I could change them. I just don't, they didn't go to some Marcus Teachers College and I, Bill and Jesse is about what I got out of that. And so it's something I don't want to bother you with but you don't want to get to bother and it's just agony. It's a real agonizing thing. I'm sure it is. The Republicans are voting together to a man and the Southerners are voting with him and we had to vote on our poverty bills after that and they offered an amendment that you couldn't have any project in any state unless the governor approved it. So that would turn it over to every Republican governor in every Republican state and they'd rather just take it away from the federal government than what it'd do and it's 45, 45. And I had to vote SNIOS, I've got 200 ready to pass it and then the old man Smith wouldn't give us room and he finally agreed to give us room with McCormick to hold it up two weeks so we don't vote on it all the state. And that Ed Bush is sending everybody from Texas wires and the wire and everybody down there please pull the wires in the Manufacturers Association, Chairman McCormick. And I'm winning them by one vote, 45 to 46. And I don't know, I just shuddered to think what happened if Goldwater won it, he's very, he's man's had two nervous breakdowns, he's not a stable fellow at all, he just shoots from the hip with everything. One day he says I'm a phony and a faker and the next day he called up won't see me. And I don't really know how to handle it all. That sounds true, I, no I don't, no I don't. If I could find a way in the world what it looks like that even when I get to, if I win I lose because I want to sell for me and that's all I've got. And if I came off the ticket sale I've got really anything to offer. And I don't have any standing in Chicago and there's Chicago Tribune, Ohio, Los Angeles, New York City and I read the clip in his last night from Arkansas. Wallace was up there and Paul was very friendly and introduced me to tell him about, how I couldn't get anybody to vote Democratic ticket. Now my judgment is we're gonna lose every southern state including Kentucky and Oklahoma and Missouri. That's my judgment as of now. And I just don't think they can take this mega stuff just keep pouring it in and they're gonna pour it in. Yeah I think they will. Well, I think I'll have that conversation if I don't change, hold him on the line. If I don't change my mind I'll have that conversation and I'll call you afterwards and we probably will have to make a deep pitch to governors like the Iowa governor, Hughes and the Ohio leaders in Pennsylvania and see if they'll stay with the president. And I just think I have to say that if they don't I'm not going to let them put somebody in bed with me that'll murder me, I just can't be president. Then that's exactly what he wants because then his having enough support to be vice president and I got out he'd have it more than anybody else had. That seems to me but I don't think my self-respect could suffer defeat at the convention and then take the presidency to you. No. No, no, and you should be in a cry baby, I just have to say that. Well, it's not that bad. Well, I don't know, I'd get to seven votes but if this thing gets out and this party gets to south gets up, I'm gonna wind up without anything but the south and the south they're gonna be for me but they're not gonna be for me on the grounds I'm a president. And I have no real report or anything in common with those folks. The only things I got possession of the office at the moment and they say, well, we don't have to endure it but till November and we can win with your order and get anybody and we don't care. What's wrong? Well, I think I tried to but they don't care much but if I get it, they just don't charge you all of it, you see. So I'm gonna tell him Matt, you think about it and then we'll come in and fight it out and you be ready and I'll call you back, let me. Anything else now? No, I'll be up tall. Well, who else who would you pick as vice president right now? What about Bob Miner? Oh, they wouldn't, couldn't think of it. He's not, he's not. No, no, no, no. What about Abe Rybakov? No, Tom Dodd's like to have it but you couldn't do it with him. No. You're gonna have to take either Humphrey or McCarthy or Bobby and I would take Bobby, I'd take Humphrey and I think Humphrey would cause you trouble in the South and I don't think it'd be much better than Bobby and I think if Bobby's position is that you're gonna lose South anyway and god damn it, why don't you come on and you get these upstate? Well, Humphrey can do that. Well, of course, I would take if I were doing it, I think, and I don't know him well and I really shouldn't say. I don't know McCarthy that well, I think. He'll get a lot of smear. He votes for all on gas companies. He votes for depletion and he'll help you a little that way in Texas but he'll catch you uncharted hell from the Drew Pearson arrest and they've already told me. McCarthy? Yeah. Why? Well, he was friendly with Kerry and he's voted for all on gas a few times and he's kind of regarded as liberal renegade. Well, I really don't know but I'll take him on, simply on the premise that nobody knows him and he's down a little harm, down a little good. Well, watch him. He can help, all you need to do is keep him set up. Right, watch him, they're gonna cut you up. They're gonna cut you up. And then I'd go with Humphrey, that's all you can do. Which you'd really prefer McCarthy-Dumper. Sure. Well, we're not gonna carry the Southern states down and Humphrey has a lot more appeal than other states and the Midwest he has a lot more appeal than McCarthy in a state like Iowa. Well, I think you may be surprised what happened to some of these other states. Now, you're getting a greater manifestation of and more outspoken criticism and fears expressed in the South but I suspect that the Harlem riots are having just as deep an implication in Chicago, I mean, in New York as they are anywhere else. I know down where they are. Human nature is pretty much the same, it's a matter of degree and if they just keep on and riding in Harlem, you're gonna have unsure details and you're gonna have it in New York, you're gonna have the same type of rebellion there in Chicago.