 Good evening and welcome to the movements against state-controlled internet in Turkey your presenters are Zeta and Baris and the Signal Angel has one question Does How many of you do speak Turkish? Okay, so it's four people You can ask questions at any time, but if you want to do so or if you do so, please Come to me. I have a microphone or go over there to Tatiana who also has a microphone and Talk into the microphone. Otherwise the people on the stream won't be able to hear you. Thank you and Welcome your presenters We'll go with the introduction. Yeah, I'm not a good nap and good evening Right well our talk I think the title does a good job of what we want to talk about Internet censorship is a concern that is growing in many parts of the world. The internet is a global Infrastructure yet its regulation and control is done in local contexts in local using local strategies At the same time what we see is that the same strategies get imported and exported across countries We will try to show a little bit of the example of how internet is being Censored in Turkey the terminology that is used a legal codification and not so legal codification of that And we will try to use that as a starting point to talk about global strategies What can we do about this these local controls and how can we act against them globally? Turkey hit the news in 2007 when they blocked access to YouTube it was one of the biggest mistakes they made if you want to censor the internet You don't start with the biggest site Shortly after they blocked access to certain Google services. They used different forms sometimes DNS sometimes IP blocking and This was rather worrying for me I don't live in Turkey myself and I was getting all these bad news and there was a moment where I started getting some good news and saw some pictures of people on The streets and noticed that there are people who are actively organizing and doing something about this and in September I had the pleasure to meet some of these people but it is one of them We were actually going to be four or two of us are not here tonight Well in spirit they are So what we'd like to do is talk about what has happened talk about how there has been resistance and how this has succeeded and sometimes failed and Then we'll talk a little bit about the problems where do they lie in the context of Turkey? But then we'll try to zoom out and see what we can do all together. Thank you Hello, I'm British I'd like to talk about Our small organization What we do and what we face in Turkey about technology and internet problems The outline is first who we are and what we do Then I'll talk about the situation in Turkey to introduce you Then a short history of internet freedom in Turkey and then the problems we have enumerated First who we are we are called alternative militiam We are part of these movements a small part of these movements It's alternative informatics in English a small network of researchers engineers as well as users for Finding alternative ideas and solutions on Politics and social consequences of technology as well as technical means To approach these problems We are distributed to several webpages now Some of them are blocks some of them are Turkish and English content I made both two of them that contains English content a This is how we were founded first was that I were working with some researchers about digital game culture and They came out with this book on digital game industry and a Digital game reader That compared to traditional games etc. And They went to more to new media in general and Facebook how it's used in practice in Turkey and About a hate speech and hate crimes in Turkey Especially nationalist ones Then there were also other bloggers researching and sharing What they know and what they see And we somehow met each other and Ali especially helped us. He's a freelance web developer He couldn't come here because he has problems with his clients And here is Mutlu bin Ark the digital game and new media research Özgür Uçkan about internet censorship and We somehow formed a network to a mailing list And what interests us? Freedom to online expression freedom to access information Freedom to create share online content state control online sensors surveillance as well as free software creative commons and copyright issues and creative industries like digital games and economy politics etc But as far as we can go in that direction We are now nearly 50 members. We communicate through our mailing lists online We communicate to participate in conferences sometimes mass release It changes we publish statements on government policies sometimes then organize meetings to discuss some hot issues at times and Publish free ebooks whenever The content comes available Here are some of the events that we participated in the internet conference in Turkey It's an annual conference that includes People from technical side social side sharing their papers in Turkey in 15th of May there was an Masterly enormous masterly don't touch my internet. We'll come to that later We participated in the May day in 2011 There was this labor start conference In which labor unions Discuss how to use new media to organize themselves To form networks And there is also sometimes seminars or meetings about digital games We are especially interested in game jams and Such events that organize new communities of developers And there was also this alternative media festival, which was an alternative to some mainstream Media new media event that was a commercial oriented So I'll give some examples of what we did For example last year we made a street declaration to support WikiLeaks and It was near the beginning of the foundation of association. We are nearly one year old Next month we held a meeting to discuss WikiLeaks and ongoing events in Tunisia and especially Egypt then and We shared ideas Then from these ideas we Wrote articles and collected them in an e-book free e-book Which also included some translations and other articles at that time on the subject and It's in Turkish means brave new media its name and it's available for latech and PDF download Another issue was the safe internet decision. We'll talk about that We participate in the rally we made a statement and discussion away against the decision We was invited to the consequent quasi-governance. So to say meeting And we made a statement to expose the intentions of this meeting as well as a statement against their next proposal and Looking at what did they modify and what did they imply? So here's an example of our statements On the second filter decision Discussing and criticizing it you can find other English texts on our websites And also we have to say that there are others Most of them are somewhat spontaneously created and They correspond to different periods of struggle we may say But there are many small initiatives For internet freedom and now we came to the situation in Turkey We have to say the two big milestones in Turkish history a near history 1980 coup d'etat and 2002 when AKP came in power and in both of these periods the Kurdish problem was continuing and Warring with PKK since 1984 Tens of thousands of people die in two sites etc The mainstream politics is divided between two poles the conservative represented by AKP and secularism represented by JLP But we have to say Conservatives are protectionists, but secularists are also protectionists. I'll show you an example so Between in general until 2002 there was this old order with high inflation continual financial crisis War crimes being exposed corruption and coalition governments a somewhat unstable in Politics and now there is this new order as it is seen with low inflation economic growth It's unequal, but still growing but There's this all-pervasive hegemony of AKP and Erdogan and conservative transformation of culture So here is the example about the conservatives and secularists These these are the categories for blocking websites and Conservatives came up with the first seven categories and the secularists did not oppose the censorship But added that eight category Crimes against Ataturk So They just signed their name and they are still for censorship Okay Provocation for committing suicide sexual exploitation of children E to ease the use of drugs That's how they translate Supplying drugs which are dangerous for health obscenity a ambiguous obscenity prostitution to provide place and opportunity for online gambling and of course crimes against Ataturk And they supply these images in case we don't understand So child abuse material and of course crimes against Ataturk So We go on with the situation We have to say that media before new media is a traditional censored manipulated. They are used to that The newspapers TV is owned by a few big corporations holdings And there's this radio television high council and they are finding Anything they don't like some images some words from the media If you use some words you have to pay money afterwards, but it's Unpredictable. For example, you can't say Kurdistan, but east of Turkey. You can't say police attacked but intervened guerrilla not But terrorists not captive but convict like that a There are also some odd things like pistol pointed to camera or something against morality or Anything they come up with and they don't warn before finding and they can find enormous amounts. So It's a constant threat for media An example is this a Hara Kiri is a comic magazine and it was find 150 thousand Turkish liras for making people Making Turkish people especially adventurous and lazy That's their justification So they have some kind of sense of humor themselves And Hara Kiri, you know, it means suicide So it was like a suicide. So the magazine closed down. Okay Another example is Ahmed shook a journalist now in prison for attempting to write a book on Fetullah Gulen sect in police departments, which is called imams army And the prosecutor After arresting the author tried to confiscate all digital copies of the book draft. It's draft because it's not published They go to computers and they say delete it from your email Don't take pictures like that However, it's leaked and it was published by Signs by many authors as an act of civil disobedience. Now you can find this book everywhere So some strange things happen About telecom situation there is Turk telecom the single phone company It was state institution, but it was privatized and it owns all ADS and infrastructure And There is an authority and so-called independent authority on information and communication technology For regulating and controlling the telecom sector But sector may include customers which are citizens Will come to that This is their website the Turkish abbreviation beteka safer internet Blocking etc And this is the presidency about Internet they just have two announcements and That page for denouncing web websites on eight categories not much content But they work hard Okay Now we come to a short history of internet freedom Firstly, there are three periods the first periods was They use blocking by court orders as a precaution in the second period they Additionally could use administrative decision for blocking websites And in 2011 there came this safer internet service, which is filter We have to say those in power are never content with the current censorship mechanisms, so They always introduce new ones and they just want to block anything without any paperwork and without any effort just by a click And Having to report no one And all these mechanisms, of course work separately like backups The first period There was something to remember earlier when they attempted to enforce press law on the internet Because to if you have a magazine you have to bring its hard copies to Apply for it. So if you have an internet web page, you should also print its hard copies When you are updating your web page and apply to the government institution Of course, it was nonsense. It couldn't be applied but even the fact that it was put forward is telling And until 2007 the existing laws was used To block websites through courts court decisions as a precaution and this included Websites like wordpress and YouTube Just because of one page of content whole domain is blocked as a precaution And as a result everyone gained practical knowledge to change DNS and use web proxies when needed I Yeah There's an interesting statement by the Prime Minister Erdogan. He said I'm using YouTube. Why don't you? When it was blocked So this was what we saw when we tried to go into a blocked web page The access to this web page is blocked by court decision and there was a Some websites began to use this image blocking their own websites and With the same font and design this site is blocked by its own decision This hundreds of web pages joined to this action and They became this one of those movements I talked about censure a censure Until they got bored of course In the For the second period firstly they made preparation Using news propaganda to create moral panic on child abuse child pornography Which is a non problem, but it became a problem through a media manipulation then they introduced infamous law 56 51 overnight No one was informed about how it was prepared And in this law The parliament Authorizes ICTA to block websites in those eight categories including obscenity And of course crimes against other Turk and They also give administrative blocking in addition to court precautions on obscenity and child pornography But we have we have to Say that This list does not include hate crimes and hate speech That's also an important thing not to miss as a result of This censorship law as we call it a platform platform against censorship was formed And organized a rally a first internet freedom rally In which five thousand people came up it was People usually really eat, but not as cheerful as this one. This was something new as you can see the images and Slogans that was used Then After Then we get a at February 2011 the first decision to Deploy filters for the internet But we didn't know on until a few months later when a journalist find it out and Exposed it and after that There was an enormous reaction. Okay, you come to that First what is filter? It's called safe internet service Icta made a decision to Force ISPs to deploy filters free from charge under profiles standard domestic child family these four profiles For all internet users in Turkey and Also, it authorized itself to fully determine the content of these filters If you don't want to use a filter they say okay, you use the standard profile But that was suspicious because if I don't want to use the filter. Why is it a profile and we Interpreted it as Being a mandatory filter you always have to be inside a profile Which means that terms of that profile can change in the future Because it's something called a name by the state And As a result In the second censorship law Creating an enormous reaction Somebody opened a Facebook event and 600,000 people attended virtually and 60,000 people attended really In Istanbul and also hundreds of people in tens of other cities So it was really a spontaneous reaction a one-time reaction, but nevertheless You can see this one in Istanbul a stick last week full of people And you can see the attitude change a bit And You can even see from the faces that it has changed People get angry now. Now we are angry After that they held an internet council meeting Which we call a pseudo governance meeting In which this internet council is called a Only a few times a year for these types of meetings to ask Our ideas and take into account people Etc. So we we was also invited to that meeting and told what we wanted what we are against Etc. And a All the people was against that decision Those who were invited, but after the meeting they wrote a report fully ignoring what was Discussed in the meeting and they just manipulated things This is the second decision which became a draft now on the August of 2011 and And they gave ten days for us to give our opinions for for them to take into account In this draft It's interesting changes were made the standard and domestic profiles were dropped In fact domestic profile was also nonsense because it only allowed servers inside Turkey Which is nothing Practically But it's interesting that still they proposed that type of thing It could be the dreams So In the decision text the wording was changed so that filter word was changed with lists So that's a try to make us harder to call it a filter They formed an advisory council Which they did not really have authority And I see I was the still the single authority to determine the filter contents And as a result In November 2011 they deployed this filter It includes two filters the child filter with a white list And a family filter with a black list Under the name safe internet So I CTA Decides what a child should and can see on the internet and What a family Shouldn't or must not see It's weird And we applied to the council of state for its cancellation because it has no legal basis It's just a decision not a law And they exceed their authority And there's lack of regulation for webmasters whose websites are blocked under different filters and It's a threat to freedom in general And this is the third and last decision Which was the final deployment This is a web page that you can query your website for example, I queried Facebook com and Families can see it but children cannot see it And Also in family filters there is an option for disabling social media disabling games Etc and disabling chat So there are also other points to make There was this data protection law Which was proposed to parliament several times and became a never-ending story over five years Because they People want exceptions and the exceptions don't end And Just for show it's also strange A data legis data protection legislation was made that relied on this nonexistent law So this was written it exists, but it's invalid because there's no law But if someone some European asks, where is your data protection? Here is this legislation so And there's this national crypto by law in 2010 that Requires you to give away any encryption mechanism and private keys you may happen to use I I think we might turn this back at the governments Okay and This this just this month Wikileaks spy files exposed several DPI companies tracking companies and it included one Turkish company involved in intercepting online communication and it's called Inforcept Here's their website And after this expo exposure they Put on their website as statement. We are hundred percent Turkish We are not foreign etc as a Defense So they are national protection Then sometime later the web page turned into English and the statement was removed Then there is this a national network tracking Center a A Secret project by ICT a with a company C2 Tech and they cooperate at least with Microsoft That we somehow know We made an information request to ICT a about DPI technologies And it was denied because it was outside the limits of our right to know So it's government secrets We do it but we don't tell you And this is the company deep packet inspection Lawful interception That's it. And it's also interesting a document Where an attorney general is requesting from court tracking and recording of emails and MSN of someone through ICT a some program I Showed you the web page of ICT a you remember Okay Now the problems that we see related to internet freedom First is the democratic legal process a telecom ownership State the culture on technology Linux Being contained in official discourse political culture education for jobs Firstly The problem is with how laws are made and how they are enforced a Practically everyone is excluded from this process Except some NGOs that are not really NGOs anymore Political action oppositional political action is punished in general You remember the journalists writer a no one trusts in the Judiciary system except members of the party in power If there is they have this de facto authority a based on ideology And not on the lawful justice So they rely on this a pride of Turkishness national Things a And information is manipulated And independent media is punished as well So this is the most important central problem secondly The one with telecom ownership of the infrastructure Turk telecom practically monopolizes the internet's infrastructure. It was privatized in 2005 Sold mostly to Saudi owners. There was a worker strike at 2007 That after the effects of privatization, of course That triggered a debate on government support on this monopoly because a monopolies More easily controlled by states is prone to state control and there's also this problem for net neutrality because They are not just infrastructure, but they are offering services in several domains with their companies, so That's also part of ownership Problem thirdly the culture is in general a consumerist relation to technology due to aggressive marketing of gadgets true advertisements and Usually they are their standard uses For entertainment or status symbols, etc We which creates a superficial relation to technology And there's a lack of motivation to have real control over the gadgets using their real power which I Think changes in times of crisis as we saw in Tunisia and Egypt But we have to be prepared Third is Linux being inside official discourse We can think that Linux promoters could serve as an alternative culture on technology Using its potential but usually The people fear to participate in politics and only target Microsoft, etc a professional position Instead of a political one and as a result it's now officially integrated into National pride and national security discourse You can see Pardus. It is a Turkish Linux distribution And the team is located inside the most high security base in Turkish state So That's gone fifth problem is political culture the opposition No movements, especially leftist and Kurdish movements. They are trying to create a third front Against the usual polarization a means of mainstream politics Of course, they can communicate and organize on the internet but they have their traditions and their Community Habits and they lack the capacity and enthusiasm to use technology to its potential and In practice online communication and propaganda which is really important secure communication and propaganda to The internet users But they are limited to standard users using creating Facebook pages or More or less simple web pages Because they are not used to work with Developers experts admins some kind of productive creative structure and The community structure is somehow incompatible with The production needed for using these new technologies and six and the last thing we say is the education For jobs as it's becoming In fact education is praised by families technical knowledge is praised by society in general but Somehow students feel indebted to family and society and upon graduation. They become a white-collar worker Fully dedicating herself to her company and job and as far as the economy is also growing and somehow Jobs become the center of education and universities Abandoned spaces for shared creativity. They turn into technical schools for jobs to For because families are demanding Education for jobs and schools are supplying for their demand There are several private universities. They use billboards advertisements And as a result technical knowledge is still remains to be owned by a small minority While the majority expects to use it without in-depth knowledge so We supposed to know and they just supposed to use a Now we We come to the final part. Yeah, so thank you Yeah Thanks again, and yeah, so I guess we've been discussing the last few days that we managed to be together again About what could be steps forward and also like on the one hand to think about steps forward in Turkey But also one of the reasons we came to CCC was to meet for the communities that are represented here and to build Networks and think about this as a global problem that we have to address locally but also globally and to also exchange strategies because obviously The governments are doing that too so Here's some ideas and actually there are other questions to you either during the discussion session or afterwards We'll also be here the next few days. So one of the I think for the legal Problem that you were talking about one of the things that we definitely needs to happen is procedural transparency I mean one thing that we could consider is is it reasonable to call or to invoke international legal frameworks of which Turkey is a Signatory is this a way to push the government to actually go through Or to respect some of the things that they signed. Is this a reasonable thing or does this actually become a kind of you know Turkey kind of pushing back saying EU is imposing again or Europeans are imposing again their Imperialist values on us, etc. So that's a strategy that needs to be discussed carefully and at the same time may be pushed And other forces that you know, it's a lot of the work that you guys are doing and It was good which kind of your monarchy is of asking for legal procedures to be done properly and also transparently I think those are the local ways of going about this There's a question of civil society participation. I think that's all often a double-edged Thing on the one hand what happens if civil society participates in making the new list Or the new filter. I mean is this the direction we want to go or how? How should we actually negotiate the terms of participation, especially because participation usually means somebody invites and you go in on their terms Then there's the question of what kind of fundamental rights should we be articulating should there be a fundamental right to access to information? Or should there be fundamental limitations with respect to let's say Deep package inspection or filtering like should there is that the kind of demands that we should be making and how should these be articulated? These are of course still on the political and and more legal Yeah vector sort of thing and then there's a question of technical I think one of the port points you are making kind of along the lines of as these filters become technical systems They go beyond the legal system. So they actually create Another system that is very difficult to regulate and and make transparent or even like to make sure that they're conformed with the legal rules So is it reasonable to ask for technical transparency? What would that mean? Is it that we want open-source systems? What does it mean to have an open-source filtering system? I mean Yeah hard questions, I think And then and I think where I hope that we can also rely on the communities here Our technical strategies until we hit a better situation, which is how can we circumvent the existing application of filters? and and other forms of control of our internet freedoms What kind of technologies can we offer it? I mean one of the things that we didn't mention is that in the in the legislation proposals It also says that web proxy usage is illegal So they actually do cover that and so what do you do with that kind of thing? What are reasonable ways to do it and then to also ask like so to have mechanism for watching the watchers So see what they're doing to see what kind of proxies you use and you get into trouble like that kind of requires a constant Monitoring of what you can do to circumvent the systems and and when you get caught what happens and informing people about that And that means that we have to reverse engineer the systems that they're introducing and I think for that We definitely need international technical expertise Yeah, so that's that's hard It was quick My name is Marie. I'm a member of the European Parliament working on internet freedom But also foreign policy including enlargement and so Turkey And I thought it was interesting in terms of what you said about invoking international treaties to keep Turkey to promises and then you mentioned perhaps there would be a counter argument of so-called European colonialism Or something of that nature. I think you said something. Yeah, they come up with words. Yes, and I think it's it's Important not to fall into that trap. I think you can always hold governments to their own commitments And that that's important and Turkey has made plenty of those commitments internationally Which it's bound by and the EU accession processes, of course not imposed on Turkey perhaps on the contrary many Europeans would say and About six months ago. I asked a question to the European Commission whether we should consider internet freedom as One of the accession criteria Because at the time that these accession criteria were made Internet freedom was not yet such an issue but free speech press freedom human rights rule of law of course are and the Commission Confirmed that indeed internet freedom is an accession criteria. So perhaps this community can use that as an argument One more suggestion, which is about representation in Turkey I'm not sure if everybody is aware that it's very difficult to be represented on the political level There's a threshold of ten percent in order to be a political party that's represented So in politics but also in civil society organizations a lot of Turkish people or people in Turkey are not represented and In Brussels or an international platforms language is a big problem And perhaps there can be clever ways in which technology can help quickly translate essential issues because for example the book Imam's army. It's not available in English yet The book by some other people Hanif Avche for example has not been available in English and a lot of these Documents by the internet regulating authority would be very very helpful to have in English I spoke to them in Brussels and I've tried to ask the sharpest questions I could but if I cannot read their words exactly for what they are it makes it very difficult to hold them accountable So I think that would be a huge asset to cross translate Turkish English perhaps Find a mechanism together here and I'll end there could we can stay in touch. I think it could be helpful I Think European imperialism is more often ideological manipulation to keep people content than an argument and The fact that there are no translations it seems that it was successful and we have to fight it Good evening. I'm okay from telecomics First I want to state that you're doing a really great job fighting this censorship system And I want to add two points. You talk about If people must have access to information I think Everyone should access every kind of information in any any type of support or format and Without being Armed for that You you you cannot ask To the gov to the Turkish government to let you access to every kind of information If they're gonna monitor you and just logs what you're doing and when you're going to check on Facebook, etc So that was that's the first point and the second point You can ask you you must ask for having the the exact criteria of Blacklist of a black listing of a website You must know which websites are blocked and why they are blocked and I think you You should continue on this on this path and ask them and force them to To have all of those that are and I just want to add you if you if you want to help or if you Want to discuss with poem we have we have a table here. We've got a IOC support. So you're welcome Hello We have a question in the chat You said that 50,000 people demonstrated against the censorship in Istanbul in May 2011 As far as I remember he says this was not transported into German media and as far as I know and no other media as well So who supported the demonstration? How was it organized and how can other people? support this The protest from outside of Turkey. It was really spontaneous just a Facebook event and That that there was these a few friends admitting a page Admitting a Facebook page and they Got this idea of let's create an event. Don't touch my internet and they wrote a Statement an invitation for people and thousands of people streamed there Facebook thought it was spam, etc They don't take into account the Turkish people's numbers and speed a so a Those friends found themselves in a position to organize Early and they went to these other people that organized the previous rally and They together just called people and they came up so I'm a witness So it happened, but it was a Yeah, it's somehow Yeah, I thought that it is manipulated so I mean there was barely media coverage of the demonstrations I mean in Turkey as well. So not just in Germany, but it was not covered also by the mainstream media And also it was before general elections. So media Interpolation is especially important at that time. So First I want to congratulate you to your activities in Turkey. It's very good thing from my eyes congratulations My origins are from Iran. I came back there two weeks ago for a visit and I saw their system Which is much more worse that what you have in Turkey, but I think it's only to shift the ruler on the one or on the other side and The one thing I I think you can do is to enforce your people to use more and more the internet communication in the in the East in the in the Oriental cultures they love to communicate with the families and so and That's the thing you can put the whole power on it and give your expertise And what I did was to to install as much Linux systems and tour systems that I could in these two weeks in Iran And I think I think what we thought about the argument about that they don't want to join like the To the European imperialism There is a lot of things in the Oriental culture which is coming from freedom as well For instance the stuff the Sufi culture and so on and you can bind this with the freedom of internet and Tell the people that there is in their own culture Culture of freedom and that they have to support it. Thank you very much for your activity We must be more internationalist Hello just two practical Observations first of all Publishing blacklists is always a bestseller It was when when it was just the index of the Roman Catholic Church It was like the first book catalogue and it was also when WikiLeaks published the blacklist of the Australian government So if you have a way to get it out, then that's that's sure to be recognized and they will get a lot of media attention, but that also The problem is how to get them out without being criminalized and that's that's a very very problematic situation because every activist faces and When we when we look to Europe, it's not only Turkey or Iran It's also the activists in Europe because the the fundamental rights we fought on a very basic Real-life level have not yet found their way into the internet culture and especially not in the minds of the politicians who make the decisions now and See what they or they are doing years later Thank you in fact, I think there was a leaked blacklist of over one million Websites that was being used to filter internet cafes where young people use and It's a for example included the organizations of gay lesbian communities, etc And we just looked at the latest proposal and they say that they're not going to provide the ISPs with the blacklist But the hash values which Okay, one-way function, but I mean you match you match right like I don't know like it's good They don't know how to do security, which is good news Hi, I have two comments One is like DNS filters are very interesting because they don't work very well with DNS sec So if you include if you start using DNS sec on the ISP level to protect the user and to protect the internet from Grimnels who want to attack your recursive DNS server then these DNS filters But actually say you know that domain was not valid, right? So your stop sign was not valid. This is very interesting So I would recommend that you take a look at the paper published by Paul Vixie and a few others on How DNS sec interferes with DNS filtering actually vice for the other way around in filtering Interferes with DNS sec the second comment that I have is In different countries in Europe, but also like Egypt and a few other countries they're very interesting community networks and wireless community networks most of the time and I can give you an example for example Serbia where you know people who want to play games put antennas on roofs from one building block to the other they perform Brilliantly like a hundred embed or more And it's sort of their private link So, you know if they don't want to have your into they don't want to give your you the internet that You deserve, you know you build your internet, right? And there is a workshop tomorrow in the evening Free Networks Workshop, so I recommend any anybody who is interested to go there I want to say something interesting with DNS filtering as I told you everyone was a Working around the DNS filtering and including the Prime Minister. So For whom was the filters used? I I think it's interesting to ask this question because People were somehow content that YouTube was being filtered because it somehow meant that We don't need you to we have our websites. We have our national pride. So It's also somehow ideological Okay Hi. Oh, yeah If your government is putting people to jail for writing books You probably shouldn't use one where one hope web proxies Have you seen how Tor works in Iran and China and this kind of countries like bridges? which you probably should use something a bit more sophisticated than one hope web proxies because It's dangerous. It starts getting dangerous after a while and Sensorship equipment are getting quite trendy lately because of those conferences like ISS world and stuff and Everyone is buying DPI equipment and it's getting more and more hardcore. So you probably should get Much better in circumventing censorship than yeah That's our In fact, we in alternative position. We want to improve ourselves in technical sites. We lack technical efficiency We just take it easy for now, but maybe sometime later we'll need Yeah, they are not taking it really easy themselves. Yeah and more questions So I see Maybe just a comment on all of that. I think I mean There's so many elements to all of this. I think on the one hand We definitely need like more civil society organizations I mean alternative position is something people are doing on their free time and and I think those are always the best Projects and all that but it doesn't mean you know, it does mean that those people get depleted and burnt out eventually I think that goes to almost all the comments that are made You know, even the translation thing I mean a lot of people can do this on their own time And I think there's maybe ways of doing it more efficiently by creating a community for translations and stuff like this And maybe we should work on those Excuse me Wiki books. Okay. Yeah But I mean there's only one hand like crowdsourcing as a possibility But I think we also have to think about developing infrastructure like alternative infrastructures and that means money at some point as well But maybe just a side note See that varsh and thank you for your talk and thank you for a great work. Give him a warm hand of applause The next talk in this room will be at 8 30 it's gonna be bug planet also on surveillance industry and countries acting and another announcement The European data protection and the internet of things Will be simultaneously translated in room B. Oh for which is