 You're welcome back. At this moment our hearts go to the people of Abuja as a multi-storey building collapsed and some people are feared dead. We know that already 10 people have been rescued but we do not know their condition right now if all will be well with them. And there are so many other people who are feared trapped in that building. People sleep at the ground floor of that multi-storey building and some people are at the top there. So we don't know the casualties, the number of casualties that will be there and the number of fatalities that might come out of that. Whatever be the case our hearts go to them. We do hope that more rescues will be done today. But we forgot earlier on we should have told you this. There's a diversion according to the Lagos State Government. The permanent secretary of the Ministry of Transportation Engineer Abdul Hafiz Toriola made an announcement on Wednesday, August 23 that the Lagos State Government is diverting traffic at a lag bar ramp in what's Lagos on Lagos Abiyokuta Expressway from Thursday, August 24 for the duration of 18 weeks. So if that is your route that you apply, be advised. You might want to take alternative routes for 18 days now from today. And he said the decision was taken for continuation of the Yanukwaja Boss Terminal Project. So be advised. There's a traffic advice for you. Make sure you look for alternative routes or if you can help it, you don't have to use that route for anything. So if your business will take you out of that route and through that route and you can stay for the 18 days without going back that way, well, but know that that's what is going to be happening on that route. But this time now to look at what made the headlines on some of our national dailies and we're glad to have with us to analyze some of these headlines. Architect Ezekiel Nyaito, a public affairs analyst that will be talking from Acquibon with us. Good morning and welcome to the program, sir. Thank you. Good morning. Just this time from Abuja. Oh, okay. You're a Nigerian. You can be anywhere. So if the network is unstable, no, it's because I'm not in Acquibon where the network is very stable. Oh, you had to say that. I don't know. I hope you don't have a property that might be demolished anytime soon. No, Wike is my guy. So you are sure that your property, even if you have, will not be demolished? No, no. As an architect, I do do diligence and look at the master plan and then whatever I have is definitely within areas that I don't lose any sleep on. Okay. Very good. Now let's go to the headlines. We will begin today with headlines from the Guardian. The Guardian newspaper is what we are beginning with today. And the first headline there is from the boldest headline. I like to say that because it might not be the most important, is that 24 years after a Nigeria space program loses traction despite yearly allocation. And I just, this headline is coming at a time where India is landing on the moon and our own 25 years after the space program loses traction is what we are talking about. And we do not know, will we ever make headway in that? Let's get your comments on that headline first of all before we go to others. Yeah, my very first comment is that you lose what you have. Did they have traction before now for you to start talking of them losing? Secondly, I bring this up again and I can't forget it in a hurry. When Mr. Donald Duke was a governor, I think I've said it before in this program and we've been very good friends right from time. And he told me, yeah, I would do anything for you on housing, land, policy, but the money I have, I will not be able to go into housing. I want to concentrate on tourism. And that guy became probably till now the only governor that has branded a state. That's the power of vision. Nigeria wants to do everything. Why don't we just look at, get focused on the things we must do for today and the things we must lay a foundation for tomorrow and get real with ourselves. This issue of space as much as I think the K is missing in my name in the last part is ETOK. This issue of the space and all this and all that. The question is, have we sat down to count the cost, to look at where we are and to situate it with time with respect to what we can afford. Every year we spend so much money on things that we are not even, you know, like the refineries. If you look at how much we spend on the staffing and maintenance of all the things of the refineries, it's obscene. It's a sin, you know. And then you now come to these agencies. My brother, I was trying to, if you look at the Orasian report and there are some agencies that you're going to see that you're like, excuse me, wait. What is this? How is that? But they have boards, they have staff, they have offices. Some of the offices are rented. So I look forward to a president that will come and play down on the politics and play up the governance and bite the hard bullet to reset, a first reset for us to be able to start to think like a people that have brainwaves of us to be. So that headline, for me, you stay lose traction when you never had traction. I want to know at what point we made such progress. I was like, wow, Nigeria is coming into the space arena. I don't think, I think it's one of those places. Yeah, but you said we should be prioritizing and seeing what we can afford. But is it really a matter of not being able to afford these things, that it is happening the way it is happening? For instance, if money is budgeted for refinery, it is supposed that that money should be used for that purpose because they did due diligence, feasibility studies, whatever name you want to call it, and found out that this money at least will take it to a particular percentage. But it doesn't seem as if that money is used at all. So on the one hand, we can afford it. On the other hand, we spend the money, but we don't see the results. So do you think it's the same thing? You know, on two occasions, in fact, this is the third, though this is the first time I really, really campaigned, but at least on two occasions I dedicated interest to be a governor. Now, if you sit down, if you are serious and you are not sent by money, you are sent by passion, if you sit down the first time I had migraine in my life, three days was when I decided to do a five-year audit of the budget of Acquirable Estate. It was painful. I couldn't sleep. God has blessed me such that I can stay for six months without having a day. I have divine health. I will say that very easily. I'm giving God the glory. But for three days, I had what I've never had in my life. Why was that so? This thing we call budget is a ritual that has no meaning and relevance to reality. It is such a deceitful document that, especially at the state level, they will budget 20 billion in this particular ministry that they know they are not going to do anything. At the end of the day, they probably will have spent 500 million. Then another ministry where they don't want to know their crown is they will put maybe 5 billion. But go and look at what is spent at the end of the day, over 50 billion. You know, they are so fraudulent in... Why am I saying all this? It is that our budgeting process is not what we should come and say it is budgeted for. It's not budgeted for. The second thing is I'm an architect. I'm a construction person. You realize that project lasts for 20 years. Why is that so? I'll give you a little example. I want to do road. You put in the budget. Maybe this road is supposed to be 10 billion. You put in this year's budget 2 billion. What will 2 billion do? It will allow me to mobilize the sites, clear the earthworks and maybe start digging the gutters and things like that. Do you understand me? Now, guess what happens? In the next budget cycle, you do not give me the next money that will allow me to do the asphalting of the earthworks that I have done. So we leave it. The rains come and then wash away everything I have done. So when I come back, I'm now asking for variation to do the earthworks again. Right? And this ritual continues. Why don't we budget such that we know the timings and the payments to be done, the milestones, and then we follow those milestones, but that's not done. Maybe in this milestone, I'm supposed to be paid 5 billion because I'm doing the asphalting and all those things and they go and put 2 billion. That 2 billion will not allow me to start. Maybe I can just, maybe it was about 5 kilometers. Maybe I'll do 1 kilometer. Then the other 4 kilometers, they will get bad. I come back. By the time you give the next 3 billion, I'm going back to do the earthworks and not asphalting the next because what I've done before is fault. So what am I saying? Our budgeting process is very defective and a lot of times these things are not for the essence, but for servicing the boys and creating employment. It's like government is put together to create employment and that's not the work of government. Government is not to create employment. Government is to provide an enabling environment for the organized private sector in a capitalist economy that we run to thrive so that you do the things that are... You ask yourself, am I an effective administrator? Because the act of governance on its own, the essence, is the management of the resources of the people to the larger interests and benefits of the generality of the people. Is that what we are doing? No, it's not. It's servicing our ego and then servicing the boys so that we can get the next election and that ritual continues. I look forward to a governor that would like to bite the bullet and say, if I perish, I perish. I don't care about second terms. I'll do it right. And if Mr. President cannot say so, then we're just in for another four-year ride. Okay, let's take another headline. Naira resumes freefall, depreciates to 890 Naira per dollar at the parallel market. I did also hear that the Naira on the I&E window is about 760 or so. What are your thoughts on this? Two things. Please let's think through policies. Let's not play to the gallery. Let's not do much of reaction. I can forgive the past in that everything there was no driver. Today, we do not only have the Minister of Finance, we also have him double as the coordinating Minister of the Economy. What that means is that there are no longer silos. Do you understand me? There is somebody who can see the interrelationship, the interlinkages, the interrelationship of the different facets and industries and ministries as relevant. Let them look at the monetary policies that we have and relate it to the fiscal policies. In the fiscal policy right now, we really don't have a central bank governor. If need be, let us make the man that is there to be substantial. If need be, I don't know whatever is the process so that the man can now know he is sitting down well. If not so, if he knows that he can leave the place anytime, he does what he can while he can. But when he knows that he has a ten or four years, he knows he will be held accountable for every decision he takes. And between him, the Minister of Finance and Coordinating Minister of the Economy and the National Economic Council, they should actually sit down and ask themselves what policy do we want to put in place? Even if it is not, you know, we can understand something that doesn't work for now. But we know a man that chooses to plant coconut instead of ground nut understands that while he is still tending the coconut, the man that planted ground nut is eating, he will look at the man, but when he knows that once this coconut grows, he will not have to be planting it every year. You know, I think it was in Churchill, I think, that says that hope is the anchor that stabilizes the soul. The moment you have hope, you can wait. You understand me? But we are here today. We don't know what the end game is. We don't understand what is happening. It is what you can, why you can't, and that's not the way government should be run. I'm a private sector person. I've never, ever in my life, accepted any paying appointments. Never. I'm strictly a private sector person and I'm sitting down here. I'm trying to do a forecast. Let me give you a very little illustration. I built a... I'm into real estate. I do estate, okay? Then a man trusts me and pays me 100% for, say, a story building, you know, maybe a four bedroom, what we call duplex, okay? And then he pays me maybe about 70 million, right? Now this is just at maybe foundation what we call German floor, you know, level. He pays me upfront because he won't have any problem. Now within six months the materials escalate by over 35%. Now my own margin was about maybe 25%. But the materials have gone over 35%. Then the question is what moral rights do I have to come and tell this man who had paid me 100% for him to, you know, pay me additional money. While on the other hand, I know I will not be able to deliver except I dig in and then, you know, maybe able to use my resources to make it up. On account of that, what do I do? I take a policy of guys in the contract it's going to be milestones based on this and that's not the way to run business. And that man who knows that if he doesn't move that money the way that money will go will now end up coming to a point where I ask for more payment he cannot pay because the money has gone. There's a way that people operate. So if you call for it to run business as a private sector person if you cannot do the proper forecasting forecasting is the sole of a private enterprise. And right now, you know, look at some weeks back it had come down to about 780 and then within days it's gone back to 900. It's a yo-yo. Things can work that way. You can plan, you can forecast. So I'm really concerned about that future. Yeah, on the punch the headline that carries that story says that Naira tumbles to 900 Naira pay dollar but the CBN vows that BDC operators will be clamped down. Do you think that is a solution to the free fall of Naira? Sorry, with all due respect those are the sort of things that just upset me. Are those guys the problem? You've created a differential of over 200 Naira. It's commonsensical for you to know that it's going to be round tripping. It's just commonsensical especially when your operation is so opaque there's a way it could be and you know, once you go there to get from the official market they are setting paradigms they are setting procedures that are not bendable there is integrity check on them it is for setting purposes and there's no cronies involved there's no political patronage involved if that is the case even if there's a differential of 500 Naira that's just to use a sledgehammer to kill a flag and somebody knows that the risky text that if he tries to divert the punishment is so steep that it's not worth the wahala you understand me? Why do you want to, some people are just adventurers they want to try it out but why don't you have us a policy where we know that this is the way now do you have the resources for you to show up the difference? Number two, can you stop the rush for money? I keep asking this question the petroleum marketers are rushing and mopping up money to go and buy a petrol outcome why can't we do this swap arrangement direct sales, direct purchase such that they are giving a location of crude in exchange for a certain quantity of petrol that will come in and other derivatives why can't we do it? in that case the crude is ours you know, I say this imagine a man that harvests yarns no matter how much the yarn costs in the market the one that he brings out to eat in the house he does not tell you the market value of the food he is eating we bring the crude from our around here, we don't buy it so why do we need to sell it and get money so that we can now take the money to go and buy it again you know the refined product if you cannot refine the product I've said this before and I say it again what is wrong and I want to repeat it I want Nigerians to tell me let the minister or the minister president look at this so-called illegal illegal refineries a good, let me tell you something I went to a guy that was to weld something for me somewhere and I told him about the diesel I said I'll supply you diesel because it was substantial he said oh god no oh god don't do that diesel, you know the work for us I said which one did they use he said the one where they do locally he said that one, if they burn better that one the last better do you understand me I was taking a back I said what about the risk factor are you sure it's properly done he said oh god let me tell you the truth over 80% of us where they use it now this one we they use not with that on our own important important this one, this will understand they do it well so it is good now at the risk of sounding like I'm endorsing it what stops the government rather than destroying those illegal refineries undergoing a process yes it might be crude let me end this note on this because it's very important there were two cities some years back that we used to laugh at as having inferior a product what were those two cities Taiwan and Aba Taiwan and Aba Aba made, Aba made we used to laugh at Taiwan Taiwan continued on that crude method until they refined it today Taiwan is in a different world altogether but in Aba we were too fast to jettison it as being inferior and we refused to you know kind of patronize those guys let them start to buy machines and buy certain equipment that will make their production better and over a period will become good enough like others if not better why can't the federal government as a policy say that we're not going to buy any more refined products in the next three years Mr. President we said during my tenure I'll get it, number one we're going to fix refineries even if it is one of them if I need to become now that I'm the minister if I need to pay that refinery every week I go there for one hour you can't do it there's a Greek adage that says I am a man of honor I am a man of honor if you like something you've got to pay the price for that thing do you understand me so president can afford to say I can give one hour in a week and go to protocol refinery and work from there and I need to know what the problems are and then within six months you'll be shocked you don't need to go again because things are starting to work number two minister of state petroleum resource for oil I want you to go to the Niger Delta to the creeks give me report tell them not to run again find out what we can do what are the health hazards that are involved how can we take care of it what are the environmental impact that we cannot do what are the equipment that is that they are having to do manually that we can do something bring the Chinese in let them give us technology to take care of that at the end of two years you'll be shocked that we are refining good products both from the refineries and from this you know so-called illegal refineries who are actually feeding us in the Niger Delta and I'll tell you that for free and once somebody to come on air and say that what we are doing is saying is absolute balderdash that is not true and if it is true then why are we pretending between the ostrich I'm pretending we don't know where the answer is once we continue to feed the whips and caprices of this wood that are something else dry these are people that are not nationalists all they care about is their personal profit let Mr. President look at what I've said and say that what I'm saying is not correct so my brother and then the gas I'm happy that we have a young man today I mean you know when they were there I'll just quickly throw this in and when they were doing the ministerial briefings and then not briefings a location of portfolio and a guy that I know very well was giving gas I was quite worried and everything until I sat down with him some days back and this guy was he amazed me I didn't know how Mr. President got to have such information about him and put him there he's not a gas sector person it's not about the energy and the focus so such people enhance them, give them wings to fly those who are eager they are hungry to make a mark not all these old people who have made so much money they are just looking for a way to make sure that they escape from ESCC these are other people who are eager to make a mark on time when I was in beauty I liked that push so I think Mr. President I think it would be better for him experience as thought of that experience as thought of that some young may not always be best young may not always be best we've seen cases of the youngest governor no, no, no I'm an advocate for the young but I know that within I have found young people who are not just informed, energetic they are eager to make a mark on the sands of time Yeah Tok has already had his life housing man of the year you know lifetime achievement award in housing and blah blah blah that's even made something minister of housing I need to look for something to act to the punch but imagine a younger person coming in he wants to also make a mark do you get the point so I could be driven by nationalistic instincts but what is driving the old people that are there outside of being able to escape from EFCC and the rest finding the national assembly as where they go to hide or government portfolio where to hide but the young people are not hiding they are looking for a way to make a mark so I'm advocating from them not because they are young so to speak not age, I'm not young age but because they are hungry because they are energetic because they see their future at stake they have something at stake November 1 ok and then they are in their 30s it will take another 30 years, 20 years to come to where I'm already today so they have more stake in the system and society than I do ok another headline here is on the punch state debts may hit 1.34 trillion naira over palliative loans and then the riders there are saying governors to begin palliative loans repayment December federal government gives 3 months grace and then goombay katsina get 2 billion naira each lament inadequate relief items of basaki nox federal government ok palliatives were given to states first of all we didn't hear about it until we were told that 48% of that money will be returned it was a loan to the states and will be returned and the governor started kicking against it that's what we heard that palliative money the 5 billion that they said to every state has been given already now they are going to have 3 months grace and by December they will start paying back this money which means this is just the palliatives forever nothing is coming in again in fact in December the states are supposed to be paying back not to get another palliative for the people but they will be paying back and the debt of the states may get 1.34 trillion naira because of palliatives so I'll tell you your comments number one is I don't know why goombay stayed on the other people who get 2 billion because I thought it was 5 billion but maybe additional I don't know but that's not my issue I want to say that a lot of times we use the name of the poor to enrich the rich I am one that is absolutely uncomfortable with this craze about palliative palliative because in 6 months you have put 5 times 37 5 times 30 is already 150 I'll take care of close to 200 billion into creating dependency syndrome you talk about the 120,000 bags of rice you divide it up and you discover that 5 villages are sharing one bag of rice and I imagine how me I'm giving one bag of rice to my village who is going to get you are taking 5 villages to share one bag of rice so much so that a whole family I don't know if you can hear me yes I had made an open letter to Mr. President in that open letter to Mr. President I said why don't you embark on what I call enterprise estates I did an analysis where I said they have the money for a quai bo don't let it enter that voicemail in 6 months rather that money will establish an enterprise estate in each of the 10 federal constituencies this enterprise estate will comprise of 200 studio apartments each of them with a portable farm a fish pond and a microprocessing unit and then you have 200 people building these 200 units imagine the money that gets into the system and you now have 200 young people being beneficiaries is like a school where they get trained and they get turned out that thing in the next 15 years is still there they have an interface with the the agrig development bank or with bank of industries and you have people who are trained you know specialists in this and it goes on like that that is the money that would have entered voicemail in 6 months in a quai boom it would be a legacy in 10 federal constituencies that will be there for the next 15 years so why don't we get a little more creative with this let's start to have a mentality of production as against consumption the consumption politics what happens to them 6 months after that man that you have given maybe how much would they say 10,000 or 5,000 every month for 6 months at the end of 6 months this money stops to come and you have done to that person you have created a social stigma because they say a man that works on food don't give him keke if that keke is not going to be for him to keep if not so you give him keke for 6 months and everybody knows him as a keke rider after 6 months you remove the keke those who are envious my brothers they know it has been taken so long available so what you do is you create a social stigma on that person you create a dependency syndrome on that person and at the end of the day you are going to create a social problem that can lead that person into things like drugs or crime or things like that to be able to sustain but if he was working and taking keke the way he was he would look at the day that God would bless him with his own so I think that we need to have a government that thinks more of the people and not on what they can deceive the people and look good in their interim and it ends there I was just trying to make a calculation of this 5 billion Naira if you are buying a bag of rice for instance for 40,000 Naira that will give you about 125 bags of rice and then if you are buying it for 30,000 Naira which is not possible right now in our economy you will be getting about 166 bags of rice in a place like that I think it will be 166,000 166,000 125,000 or 166,000 bags and you put that in a quite bomb state how many families will get it now 150,000 for 30 1 local government you will get 150,000 and 30 you realize that in a local government you are giving them 30,000 you are giving them about 50,000 bags ok now when you divide that no my maths is wrong when you divide that you come to what I said before we are about 3, 4, 5 villages rice that's for 6 months I don't know if you get what I am saying that's for 6 months it doesn't add up it doesn't make sense but if you aggregated that into a productive venture I keep saying this I wish I would have an opportunity to make a presentation on this enterprise estate to Mr President I did it at the let me just say 15 everybody has this thing that oh, Akiten Yaito was the only African as a main speaker at the global conference on affordable housing in Malaysia Kuala Lumpur what people don't know is that it was a specific product that I presented that they say wow this makes sense it needs to hit a global stage please can you come and give it to us at a global level do you understand me the national housing policy it's there in our housing policy because they took it off but since then it's been like people just keep it hush hush and I believe that God will open a door for me to make that presentation to Mr President this is something that gets the money down to the grassroots because talking about I am a social governance advocate and social governance is a bottom to top approach to governance and development with the primary objective of bringing the citizens out of poverty so developing the rural areas is my own area of special interest so I am thinking in terms of what can we do within the social rural areas that is sustainable and yet brings money to them at that level so it's about clear thinking and I hope that we start to come up and enterprise estate is not the only thing there are other products that people have let them start to aggregate those special products that are rural area targeted that will be able to make impact instant impact on a productive you know capacity or basis and then we start to have where we are having things that we can export number one we play down on the things that we import we are importing rice we can become self-sufficient in rice we don't need to import we are importing tomatoes tomato paste this stuff imagine in each of the enterprise areas I am having 500 tomato farms and fish ponds you know if you extrapolate that you can become self-acquiring can feed the whole of Nigeria on catfish do you understand me so you create an alternate economy but people don't think that way they want to collect palliative buy supply and do contract and make money from the contract when they tell you the cost of bag of rice that they are supplying buy you know they don't tell us the same so they tell you they brought 150,000 bags of rice please go and ask them where they bought it from and how much they will pay for each of them even though we are not comfortable with these palliatives I am not as well because it's just a scam the way and especially knowing that palliatives this word palliative came to us at the time when we had covid and we saw what happened to the palliative some of the people were hoarding the palliatives to distribute as their bed day gifts to people some to use it as their campaign strategies campaign giveaways and all that and now even now even now when we are not comfortable we are worried about the distribution of these palliatives that they are talking about and GSS is warning in the leadership newspaper GSS warns governors against show the distribution of palliatives will this even work can they monitor listen to me you see I have a problem sometimes with GSS let me tell you something you see L-Rufi I get problem with L-Rufi but they are setting things fundamentals that L-Rufi has done in the past that I am very happy with when he was in the F-City before doing anything he looked for the big heads he didn't talk he looked for the big heads unlike my or God's wicked eyes talking he looked for him he hit them BAM BAM BAM we started here F-City has demolished the house of national chairman or PDP and he was PDP he has demolished the house of this general by the time he took on three people before the engines rave to go to masaka or one man village the people have run they said this man man don't come over there is a difference between this is like a joke the Yoruba guy and then the Worry guy the Yoruba guy remove his shed he would just go boy and go finish you when I finish go be like I said trailer hit you you go do this you understand me come and see the show but Worry guy he would look at you he would give you BAM he would sound you he don't slap you finish they get the point so let EFCC just keep quiet can't get one, two, three of these people and the people would say where did the EFCC do and when they ask where did they have we never start but DSS is warning the governors that they should not be shoddy in their distribution of these palliatives can they do anything to the governors while they are still on seat even what are they even going to do wait now governor get immunity but governor get the boy governor don't do these things I see you know another Greek saying I can't get a lion so that the mother will come you understand me so the governors have immunity no problem I told you when I went to World Bank with Mada Okonjo-Iwala I wanted to talk of this in our housing land use art in U.S. in World Bank they said architect forget that thing you know go change let's walk around it I can't forget that expression till tomorrow let's walk around it you understand me so we may not be able to hold the governors but we can hold their commissioners we can hold their heads of prostitutes we can hold people when governors say you know these police people these ESC people the way they are doing do you get a point for their self-preservation they will look for a better way to make sure that they themselves are not put in harm's way well this is where we have to draw the curtain there are so many other headlines they would have loved to treat but this is how far we can run on these thank you so much architect Nyaito for coming on the show thank you that was architect Ezekiel Nyaito talking to us from Abuja today and we do hope that you had a wonderful time being with us we will take a short break when we return we will be looking at the fact that the federal government has ignored a 17 year old concession fee debt and has renewed terminal leases so let's look at that when we return from the break stay with us