 Okay, here now, get ready for one of the most powerful interviews that you've ever seen. This is Patch Win. This guy came over to America when he was five years old from Vietnam. The story is incredible. Today, this guy has $100 million worth of real estate, and he started as a real estate agent in 1990. This guy got up to where he was selling 150 properties a year door knocking. So he tells the whole story, how he transitioned into being an investor, and he still does real estate agent activities today. He's 53 years old, and this guy has been somebody that I have watched for a while. I love his content. He has a million organic followers on Instagram, and he puts out just incredible stuff. It's all focused on real estate investing, and I love his message behind it. His message is to go something like this, own real estate, all right, don't trade it. He's not really into flipping. He's not really into wholesaling. He's not really into being an agent per se. He's okay with using those vehicles to take that money and invest in a real estate that you're going to keep long term. It's a long term holding of rental properties is where it's at. This guy develops entire apartment complexes. He buys ugly houses and renovates them and keeps them forever as rental properties. It's amazing what he's doing. It was such an honor to spend well over an hour with him, and you're really going to enjoy this one. So go ahead, smash the like button, click subscribe, leave me a comment when you hear something that resonates with you, and let's get right into it. Bring agents into the brokerage or do an affiliate deal that pays me residual every month. I make money forever. We're a long time off that one transaction. Your real estate commission checks is just a vehicle to actually invest in real estate. Long term. They're business models. They teach you how to be top agent. I'm an agent. I know that they're small thinkers. They say they dream big, but they really dream small because the biggest they dreamed is the ceiling of being a realtor. What do you say to people like that that may be a little hesitant right now with the market and what's your strategy right this second with the way the market is? Yeah. When you're a realtor, you're like, I'm just tired of talking to seller and negotiating price reduction. You know what I mean? You're tired of that, right? When you're young, you want to raise capital. You want to do all this stuff. Then you get older. You're like, I don't want to report to this. I don't want to report to the investor. I don't want to tell them bad news anymore. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to the show. Today we have one of my favorite people online, especially in the real estate and investing space, Mr. Thatch Wynn. What's up, bro? What up? What up? What up? What up? Where are you at today, man? You in Seattle? I'm in Seattle right now, man. Just hanging tight all the way till December. Then we're going to Japan for like three weeks for the rest of the year. Okay. Perfect, man. Perfect. You guys do that every year? Yeah. We usually take December off and then we travel somewhere, you know, overseas and where? Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful, man. So you all go somewhere different every year. Yeah. You know, the year before that we went to Vietnam, you know, and then Singapore. But most of the time it's overseas, you know, to go visit family in Vietnam and then hop all through Bali and Singapore. That kind of stuff. This year we're just going to go hang in Japan, you know, and do all of Osaka and Kyoto for like three weeks and then call it good for the year. Yeah, man. That sounds like a blast. I have never even been to any of those places. So I'm definitely going to venture over. Yeah. For sure. Now, I appreciate you doing this. I mean, just a little bit for my audience and then I want to kind of, I've got to hear the story here because I know a little bit about it. I know you started out as a real estate agent, right? And then you kind of transition into investing and everything like that. So I want to hear all about it. But just for people listening, that year has been in the game since the 80s, right? And he's amassed a real estate portfolio of over a hundred billion dollars. And I'm just super excited, man, to have a chat with you. So just take me back, man. I want to hear because it's kind of similar. I started to know too, as a real estate agent, I got to where I was selling a hundred properties a year as a single agent, you know, mostly listings and stuff. So a lot like what I've heard from you and some of your content when you talk about being a real estate agent and everything. So, but I did start in 2002 versus the 80s, right? I was born in the 80s, so I couldn't get my license quite yet. So now take me back, man. I want to hear this story. Yeah. So, you know, so I was born in Vietnam in 1970. So I'm 53 years old and my dad was the US military at the time as a translator. And in 75, the Vietnamese communist was invading South Vietnam and the US troop pulled out of South Vietnam. And my dad basically, you know, said to us, hey, we're going to leave with the US troops because when you, when the communist is coming in and if you Vietnamese, you work for the US troop, you're pretty much going to get, you know, killed, right? And so it was like a one phone call kind of thing. My dad's like, hey, US troop is pulling out. They we can get out of here in the next 24 or 48 hours. I'm going to come home, you know, grab everything, you know what I mean? What we got? I'm going to pick you guys up and let's go try to pick up all of our other cousins and on everybody and let's let's head out to the airport. Now, the airport is up in the city. We live more to the countryside. So my dad had to drive all the way to the countryside, pick everybody up and try to go by all my aunts and uncles and grandma's house, trying to get everybody into drive back into the city. That's where the big airport is. So he can get out of there with the US troops and everything. My dad got home. We packed everything. We're like a suitcase for the whole family with this four of us. And my sister was, you know, obviously, I'm still my mom's stomach. And and we went by trying to pick up all my aunts and cousins. And nobody was there. It's just destiny. You know what I mean? Nobody was there. People in Vietnam, right? There was neither. Yeah, yeah, I just thought it was a regular day. But I always say to people, you know, especially for people listening, you know, when the doors are open, you got to jump in. Nobody's going to push you in, folks. You know, the door over my dad, right? You should leave the country. And my dad basically says, all right, we're leaving. Had no money of a hundred bucks. And he jumped in and, you know, we got to the last plane. We flew out to the US troop and we just had to just figure it out. We landed in San Diego. Lived in the shelter out there. Camp Merck, Camp Peniton with the barracks for all the refugee out there. And stay there for about a month. And then we got shipped up to another refugee camp up in Seattle. Stay there for like two months. And then a gentleman in Charles Zetler, you know, who is sponsored at the shelter, sponsored our family, we'll live with him and his mom. And we lived there for about two years. And then we finally move up, you know, hard of Seattle. And and we rented a two bedroom, one bath house for eight of us. And my dad was the only one working and pretty much my life just started from there. So how old were you when you guys did? I was five years old. When we left, you were five. We left the country in 75. Uh huh. I was five. How many were with you with your family, your aunts and uncles and cousins? How many, how many were with you? Nobody, bro. They were gone. They all just out kicking it, having a good time. Oh, they were out doing stuff. It was out doing stuff. They didn't realize that the commoners is coming in town. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Oh, OK. So your dad had inside information. We got to get out of here. Nobody even knew. Nobody in the whole city, the whole city didn't even know that the U.S. troop was pulling out. Wow. Wow. And then your dad just had this opportunity of a lifetime, really, to basically get come here. And this is why I always say, Ricky, how many opportunities we have as a lifetime on our journey and we don't take it. Wow. Your life is totally different than what I mean. That that moment transformed everything. Wow. Back to Vietnam for the first time, probably like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I see all my cousins, you know what I mean? Just hanging out, you know, in the village when we live. And I say to myself, not one decision that my dad took the opportunity to go through those doors when the boss said you should fly out with us. If he would have said no, my dad would have been killed. And then we would have been living in that village with the dirt road with all my other cousins. Yeah, yeah. Destiny, you know, I think about how scary that could be. All right, my dad was 34, my mom was 29, had no had no money, didn't speak no English and about to leave the country in the United States. What? I mean, what's the worst damn thing? You think about real estate investing? Yeah. Right. Now, that's incredible, man. So, wow. So, like, I watch TV shows and stuff, right? About people who live in these other countries, like what you're saying in these villages and stuff. And sometimes when I travel to different countries, I've never been to any of those countries, but I've been to some countries, OK? And, you know, even like in the even like in the islands right here in the Caribbean and stuff, you know, you go to some of those islands. And you just start to think about the infrastructure, just the infrastructure that we have here, you know, compared to some of these places. And you start to think, man, like we live like kings and queens over here, and we don't even realize it. We take it for granted all the stuff that we had. It's kind of like when a hurricane hits here. We have hurricanes that hit here, live on the Alabama Gulf Coast, and we'll be without power and internet and stuff for a couple of days, you know? And it's just like we're just like, what do we do? We're living in hell, you know, without this stuff. That's why I ask for the US people. Our worst day is the best day for third world country. So in the United States, that's why I tell people if you're tired, you're nine to five. And you want to get into, let's say, being a realtor, a real estate investor. The worst thing that can happen if you fail, but your failure is still beyond the whole country. You still go home to air conditioned house. That's it. That's it. Sleep on a mattress. It is, man. It's what we're accustomed to. So and what we grew up with here. And so, you know, we just don't even realize it. So all right. And then so what happened from there? Like you started going to school, I guess, elementary and everything in Seattle. Yeah, I went to school. I graduated in 1990, 1988. And I went to college. I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do in college. So my two older brother was all in the aviation business. They let the fly. So the they one of them went to aviation school to fix airplane and they also he also wanted to fly. So I decided to follow my one of my older brother footstep. So I went to school with him. He was like, you know, two year, three year older than me. And so I went to school with him to learn how to fix aviation. So I got my degree as AP mechanic to fix airplane. By the time I didn't have any money. I was living with my mom and dad. And so I wanted to work for Alaska Airlines, right? Because oh, yeah, I'm a mechanic for Alaska. I'd be cool, right? But you get sent out to Denver. Right? And I'm like, and I got no money. I don't want to leave out there. It'd be lonely by yourself. I'm not used to taking that job. So I was working at Safeway full time, a body shop full time and parking cars on the weekend at a Chinese restaurant. And I remember sitting at the bar and the daughter of the Chinese restaurant owner, her name is Linda. She was standing for her real estate license. I'm like, what are you studying? She said, say my real estate license. I said, I said, what are you doing? I said, I'm going to give my license and probably, you know, use it to maybe help some people buy real estate. But I want to have it just to one day I can buy real estate. She's like, you should do real estate with me. You got a good mouthpiece. I think you do well. You make seven percent commission, which, you know, not you and I know that you don't get all that money. And I decided I'm like, oh, really? I do have a good mouthpiece, right? And so in 91, I took my real estate license and I passed it. OK, I went to work for this Windermere office. Thank God it was a big name brand. And in 91, I got my license. But the first three years, I was sitting around and I was just looking at this desk and this telephone like, what the hell am I going to be doing all day long? And then Mike Ferry came to town and a bunch of agents would go in there and they're like, that you should go because you don't like this guy. He got a good go get a personality. So I went to my very workshop in Seattle and I was like, man, I like this guy and he would often coaching at this time, three hundred dollars to be a coach half an hour every other week with one of his coaches. I was like, I got to do it. I was so a three hundred dollar. It was like ten grand a month for coaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh, my God, man, I look so hard for all my other money. I'm going to give this man three hundred dollars. But I just said I'm going to kick the door down and I'm going to walk through the door. So I paid him a three hundred dollars and on my first year, Mike Ferry, I want to sell like three homes a year for the first three years. One, two, three, second year, three homes, second year, third year. And then on my fourth year, which is when I met Mike Ferry my first year, I think I saw like 10 houses and then he taught teaching me scripts. He taught teaching me about real estate on the side at this point. Right. It was like you were doing full time. Yep. So what happened was I did my first year after my first year, I just gave up the body shop and basically parking cars on the weekends. So I was mixing half and half safe way and real estate. And my second year, I did like 20 deals and I just dropped the way safe way completely. And at that time, I was door knocking a hundred doors a day, five days a week. And geez, every day where I was out there door knocking every day because Mike was preaching hundred dollars a day. I memorized my script. I had a flyer. I told my wife came and dropped me off, take the car. So I don't have to get back in the car and I just made a commitment. I'm going to knock on a hundred doors. I'm going to pass out the flyer. No one's home. They're home. I'm giving the flyer. So I said, I can count. I did a hundred doors. So I money through Friday. I got dropped off like eight thirty nine in the morning, rain, cold, snow. I just made it happen. And I got done around one o'clock. I told her to pick me up. She bring me back to the office and then we eat there. And then you see all my appointments, like, you know, three o'clock and five o'clock in the evening. So in the morning, I would generate business in the evening. I would show houses or this housing. And I did every day. Ten year straight. Wow. Wow. And I want a hundred doors between eight thirty and one o'clock every day, every day, five days a week, money through Friday. You were in shape, huh? Man, I got it. And so I did jogging. Were you jogging in between in between houses? Were you running to the next one? Oh, yeah. Right. And I did that for ten years. And then I shipped this different thing. But I see without the door knocking and cold calling. Even today, I still cold calling, doing a lot of property. Today is my blood. You know what I mean? So you did that for ten years and you got up to sell on a hundred properties a year like that? I was selling at that time, me, my wife and one assistant. I was selling on my peak in 2007. I'm sorry, 2005. Some of the 2005 and seven, I was doing about 150 deals a year. Mostly all missing like. Just me, my wife came in, she was an assistant, right? Handed all the paperwork and then one buyer agent. And I was making close to like a million dollars a year at the time. And then I met a mentor. He was Saul. I work for Windy Mirror from 94 to like 97, 98. I work for Windy Mirror and Saul had an office called John Oskar, which is another big brand in Seattle. And he said, hey, I see you young. You're like the talk of the town around Seattle. Come work for me. And I'm like, what's the benefit? I didn't know. He's like, look, you can be rich selling real estate. But while I would do it, I teach at an own real estate like me. OK. I'm like, I'm listening. So came this was after ten years of doing this. But what happened was I did three. I did like four year at Windy Mirror and I switched office. I went to Saul and saw me when we came in every month, once a month to actually help us take all money, make real estate and buy rentals. Mm hmm. My job is get out of the door and I'll go make money. Cammy's job was to take the money, right? And then just buy rentals. So every time I don't knock the door, if it looked good, we'll buy it. Right. And that's how I just built my portfolio, one door at a time. And so I made my money from selling real estate to the commission. I lived at home all the way from I started real estate. Ninety one, right? I didn't leave the house. I didn't leave my mom's house until about my first house, which was, I want to say, two thousand. You bought your first house in 2000? Yeah. OK. So meeting my first primary house I live in. Right. Right. 1997 to tell my primary. I bought like 13, 14 property rentals. OK. OK. And these are money. And you were buying you were buying the ones you were door knocking. It wasn't properties on the market or whatever that you saw or through other people. You were you were finding these sellers yourself. That's right. So basically, like my first house, I don't knock the owner. The owner wanted to say they wanted one 10 for the house. And I was going to get six emission, six percent commission or seven percent commission at the time. And I was like, you know what? I like the house. You think I can buy it for one 10 minus seven percent commission. They're like, I don't care. And I was like, OK, and then I bought it. Like that. And that's how I bought a lot of my property. I was going knocking for listings. And if it's something I like, I asked the owner, can I buy for this price minus my seven percent commission? And they're like, no problem. Because they left the same amount of money. Yeah. And I just bought. And do you remember that first house you bought for one 10 minus seven percent? What you rented it for? Oh, I still own it today. It's my first house. Yeah. I bought it. Actually, I bought it for they want one 10. I bought it for 105. I put down five percent first time home buyer. And today, right? Now, I was worth like 750 and we ran it off for like 3500 bucks. And I think time was running for like a thousand bucks back in the days. Yeah. Yeah. So when you were doorknocking all these doors and you were selling 100 plus properties a year, making a million bucks, which is a lot more money back then than it is today. Were all of your deals coming from the the doors or were you taken? I mean, when you knock 100 doors a day, right, you're talking to a lot of people that aren't buying today, that aren't selling today. Did you have something in place to to stay in touch with everybody you talk to? You know, and did it end up being kind of a snowball there where, you know, maybe half the deals you were getting were coming from people that were ready to go now that you doorknocked and then other half were coming from people you doorknocked last year or the year before that kind of came back to you. Yep. So, you know, back in the day, remember, remember a program called Top Producer? Uh huh. Right. So I was knocking and sometime I get people right in there. And then sometime people say, call me back a year later that I, I will write their name on a piece of paper, right? And then I go back and then I will input it into Top Producer and say, Mike, I'll just say, if they say a year, call them back in six months. And so what happened was I would doorknock and new stuff. And then in the afternoon after lunch, right? I do at least an hour follow-up. I do five hours doorknocking in the morning and hour follow-up in the afternoon. And then I go see my appointment in the evening. And I was about to routine over and over and over and over. So I kept bringing in more leads to the front, whatever I can do right there. And then whatever other than that, I go into Top Producer. And then after the, you know, the first year I didn't have no referral because nobody wanted to talk to a new little kid. You know what I mean? Yeah. And if there was, it was my dad's friend who I showed her houses somehow and then he would have my commission. Yeah, exactly. After commission, right? And so, and so that's what happened. I five hours, whatever, whatever we don't do, I put them in Top Producer and I just keep routine over and over and over and over. I just kept that system over and over and it just kept growing and growing and growing and growing. Yeah. And so, like this is what I think a lot of real estate agents don't really get is that they're not going to sell forever. Yeah, it's a rat race, right? And, you know, they may say, I love selling and I love, you know, go on a listing appointments and showing stuff and they might now, but there's going to come a time. I know it did for me and I was one of the ones that said I love selling. But then it got to the point where, you know, it hit you like a ton of bricks. It's like, I can't do this anymore. Like every time I sell something, I don't make any more money unless I go sell something else and something else or something else. And it's just an ongoing and you have to always be present there. Yeah. I mean, if you're on vacation 30 days in Vietnam, the machine stop. Right. Right. You get off the treadmill. We went to Disney last week, just a full week. Like one of our, you know, we take like maybe one big vacation where we just completely unplug. And, you know, for me, I got out of production as a real estate agent last March and and being there that last week, you know, knowing that all the money that I got coming in past all my stuff is passive now. You know, that money just keeps rolling in whether I'm there or not. And that's a good feeling. But I think real estate agents, they're like, they don't, they don't think that far ahead. They're just trying to make a big business now. And what I'm trying to teach agents is, you know, there's going to come that day where you don't want to be an agent anymore and you can't wait till then to start trying to build your portfolio. You got to start picking up rental properties now so that by the time you do, you know, get that feeling that you got to get out of business, ma'am, clients were calling me and I was cringing looking at the color ID. You know, it'd be like a million dollar deal. And I'm like, I don't want to talk. I don't want to talk to this person. That's how bad it was there at the end. But I tell people, you know, start investing early so that you've got something coming in where at some towards the end, when you decide you may or may not want to sell, you might continue selling. But it's only because you want to at that point. And then when you don't want to, you can kind of step away. What was the point for you that you got to the point where your where your investment business and income and portfolio was big enough? OK, to leave a million dollar plus business over here. Did you did you put a team together to run that? Do you still make money on commissions? Did you sell the real estate business? What what did the transition look like? Because I know a lot of agents are thinking, man, how do you go from making all this money as an agent to being done with production and just go all in on investing? So nobody go all in. So for me was when I was doing like my peak, like a hundred and fifty seven deals. You know, it's it's it's one of those kind of thing where like I would be mentored by my mentor, Saul, and he owns a lot of property. And I, you know, thank God he always blowing in my ear passive income. There's a lot of real estate coach out there. They're niche is to teach people how to be top realtor. Can't hate him for that, because that's what their business plan is all about. Right. Mm hmm. And for me, I would out there getting coached by Tom Ferry, Mike Ferry and all these people and they teach me how to be a top agent. Thank God I had Saul because Saul took my focus from agent. I see him like this. They they their goal, they think big. I did, you know, 50, they want to do a hundred and fifty deal. And their highest horizon they can see is still being a realtor. Oh, took my horizon and it took me way beyond being a realtor. It took me out here and go, when you have kids, do you want to keep selling real estate and be at the beck and call of a client? So he had me look at that horizon and then work backward in my business plan. Mm hmm. Both realtor and look at their, their horizon is one day I'm going to do five hundred transactions on a team of 50 and then down. So they always, you know, always on the treadmill, just running faster. And so with me at in 2005 and seven, I was just tired, man, going to listen to presentation and, you know, when the market's good, shit selling easy, when the market is down, like where it is, you got to convince the owner price got to go down. And then they blame you for not doing a great job. They want to fire you. It got to the final like mental tired of this shit. Right. And so for me, I was like, you know what? The first thing I said to myself, I'm going to stop working with buyers. So the first thing I let go was, I quote, I have buyer agent, buyer agent, when they good, they take off. So what happened was I had buyer agent, they good, they take off. And it got to a point where I was like, yeah, here's what I'm going to do. I don't even care. I had one or two good agent in the office. I said, I'm going to do you this workout. If I get a good deal, I'm going to say you're going to be my buyer agent on the team, but you see work for your own company. Right. This we split the buyer fee 50, 50. And when it get back, when the buyer get done, you put it back in my database. They like done deal. So I'll go out, you'll call me, I want to buy house. Great. My buyer agent is going to show. That way they never have, I don't have to be responsible. Keep feeding them. You know what I mean? So my first replacement was just give it to the buyer for 50%. OK. And now what happened was then the next set of thing I did was give it all the seller who I don't know to someone or 70% 30% for me. All right, you do all the work. You give me back my seller. OK, so I get big fact commission checks for all those two. Actually, I'll take them back is 50, 50 and listing 70, 30 on buyer. They get 70, 30% that's what it was. OK. And now I'm at a point now, we can only work with builders and seller who I know. OK. So you're still listing stuff. You're still doing agent activities. Yeah, I still do it. Me, my wife, Cammy and one assistant. So on the day that I'm listening to stuff for my friend, right, like my friend just called me and said, that's I want to sell for my rental property. So we listed it just a couple of weeks ago and we list all four of them. Cammy still does all this up again and all the offer comes in. We see it. We do everything over the phone. So it's not a big deal for us. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, just listen to seven houses for the builder. We show the land to we get all the list back. But now we've been out of part start. We've been out of part now in my career now that we don't even want. We should do probably like 70 deals from listings. So right now, we've been talking about next year. We want to start giving away those listings to someone for 50 split. And so I never gave away everything. I slowly graduate, you know what I mean? And so I still make money on the listing side on referral or I still do my listing, but I spend most of my time now going out there prospecting ugly houses. So I still prospect. I have a group of people that prospect and I got a whole bunch of people on the street or the agent or the whole cell on the street that they know that I'm out looking for ugly houses and tear down property. And that's what I focus on. Now, if I find it myself, if I don't like it, I will list it, but I have somebody else go list it for me like that. Yeah, yeah, that's like me. I've got my dad and he handles all the listings and sales. So I can kind of do what I do and we split everything. We split expenses. We split the commission. So I still do the advertising and stuff. And, you know, whatever he kind of handles the day to day where I can kind of do my thing on the investment side and content creation and stuff like that. So pretty similar real estate agent. They got to understand that, yes, they say you losing 500 grand, but you probably spent 70, 80 percent of your time doing a million. But if you lost a grand and if you took away majority of that 70 percent and you went and invest you will make a lot more than 500 grand with that same, you know, even 60 percent of your mental space going, creating. At least and you have something for tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, you're done. You get it and it's done. Well, for me, it was for me, it was like when I when I do a deal, a listing or sale, then I get paid on that on that listing or sale once. You know, versus when I do an investment deal that I plan on keeping or, you know, bring agents into the brokerage or do it, do an affiliate deal that pays me residual every month. I make money forever, you know, or a long time off that one transaction. And so I just focus my energy on more, more residual, passive type businesses where when I make a sale, I'm getting paid for a long time off that one activity, that one sale versus real estate. That's what that's the one thing I didn't like. But but we're in a real estate agent. You can make so much money if you're a hard worker that you can take that money and then kind of transition into these passive businesses and stuff. And like you said, agents just don't think that far ahead. No, I want to I want to say this for agent, too. It didn't dawn on me until after I left. Well, left most of my energy away from being agent. But your real estate. Commission checks is just a vehicle to actually invest in real estate long term. You have to look at it like that if you're an agent. The problem with agent, look at the real estate vehicle as a platform where they can be number one. Yeah, right. Right. But number one doesn't pay you residual for the rest of your life. You get old and crusty, right? You'd be done and you got nothing else for the rest of your life. I know agents that literally died calling for sale by owners. I know two of them, they make calls, both of them. They died from old age. They were in their late 70s, early 80s and we they knew they were dying. And like we got the news that this one agent Bob, you know, he was not doing well. Well, he was in the office the next day calling expires. And we were like, what is going on here? And the thing was, was he was trying to make he was trying to make as many sales as he could to leave as much as he could for his wife, because he knew he was going to pass away. And then he may calls all the way up until three days before he died where he couldn't get out of bed and then he passed away. And that was back in 2011 or 12 when that happened to to these agents in my office. And I was like, you would have had some rental property. You could have left a lot more than a fucking commission check. Exactly. Exactly. He was just trying to build money in the bank. Right. No, it's it's it's crazy how there's not a whole lot of people that talk about it. And certainly your broker is not going to teach you this. Oh, right. Most of them don't even teach it. You know, I mean, look, as much as I love Tom and Mike Ferry, their business model to teach you how to be top agent. I want agent. I know that they're small thinker. They say they dream big, but they really dream small. We get the biggest they dream is the ceiling of being a realtor. Think outside the ceiling of a realtor. Yeah. Right. And so that's the problem. You know what I mean? That they think inside this box called realtor. Right. The top agent can make one million, two million, three million, five million a year. Half of that go uncle Sam. He still ain't got nothing in a nice lifestyle, but you got no rental. You got no asset. Yeah. The most daunting thing for me was January 1st. Oh, yeah. You got to start all over again. Yeah. When the million dollars, I was making a meal at 1.1 a year. And then, and then January 1 clicked and it went to zero. And I was like, oh, I got to, I got to climb this million dollar mountain again. And then, and then the doubt started setting in, you know, am I even going to be able to do that again? Like that was an incredible feat. There's so much energy that goes into this. I want to say this to a lot of realtor's out there. Listen, go learn how to be a top agent from a lot of the mentor out there. Also have another mentor to teach you about real estate investments. So you're going to have a bow. Yeah. Yeah. So so you never really let your real estate agent business totally go. You just kind of let bits and pieces of it go. It's been kind of a slow, gradual transition. But that's what I'm trying to get out of you just for the people listening because most of my following is real estate agents. And what would your advice be on transitioning from agent to maybe you don't let all the agent stuff go completely. But to get to a place where you don't have to sell anymore, you can take listings if you want to. You don't have to. How do you get to that place? Well, the key is if you're an agent right now, you don't own a rental. You got to take the opportunity and make as much money as you can with the vehicle called real estate commission checks. Then you got to go get a mentor that someone actually can really teach you how to own rental property, how to buy the right rental property, how to buy the right location, how to maximize your ROI on your money. Then every time you make a commission check, right? And you save enough money for another down payment, buyers have a rental. You're going to have to adjust your lifestyle because before you didn't have a rental because you didn't need no down payment money, you were living a good lifestyle. So you got to actually draw a line. You go, I need to do this. So I don't actually die three days before the goddamn, you know what I mean? A 90 years old. So kill it. I tell all my agents today, kill it. And then you have enough money, pick that down payment, buyers have another rental. So eventually you're going to accumulate one rental, two rental, three rental, four rental, five rental. Now you got rentals. You got the going. So eventually we have enough rental and you have enough cash flow that you can slowly scale the other way around. But you've got to start somewhere, folks. If you do it sooner or later, you can get the scale going. This will hopefully you have enough by the time you, you know, 90 years old so you can leave all this asset in the cash flow for the rest of your life, for your wife's life or your husband's life or the next generation coming through. So that's what I recommend. All the agent, go make your money. Soon as you make enough money, buy some another rental. Do it, folks. Trust me, what you're going to have to sacrifice. You have to just cut back on your expenses a little bit because you're going to need the down payment to buy the next one and the next one. If you do that for the next, they want to say every day of the day, if someone actually bought one rental every year, depending on where they buy it, OK, if they only got put down with, you know, 20 percent, they buy one run every year. Let's say that the average price is 300,000 and they have a 7 percent appreciation in 10 years. That's definitely turning to like a million dollars. The asset couple million on the asset 10 year again. That that would be like five to 10 million on the asset. It's just a compound appreciation. It's like an avalanche. Yeah. When you say kill it, you're talking about their lifestyle, right, living all this, spending all this money, you know, going out and eating all the time, doing all this stuff. You're saying kill that lifestyle, cut back a little so you can save up for down payment, down payment money. Exactly. Because remember, if you don't have a if you don't have a reason to buy a rental, you always need 20, you know, 20 percent down. Most of the time, you never have that much money that make a million and they spent half of the same other half. They live a great lifestyle, but they never have 20 percent to buy anything. You see what I mean? So the market right now. Right. I'm buying houses every month. I'm buying commercial. I'm buying commercial duplexes, new construction, existing homes. Like I'm buying stuff every month. I'm closing on deals. I'm paying cash for some. I'm putting 20 percent down on some. I'm doing I'm just buying stuff. I'm bullish and, you know, I don't know what's going to happen short term. But I feel pretty good long term. You know, it's a good bet to make. But what would your advice be right now for people who maybe are new and trying to buy rentals or maybe somebody that's been in it for a couple of years, but they're just kind of scared, right? Because they see all the headlines, you know, about price is going to come down. And we're in this, you know, whatever, whatever. What do you say to people like that? That may be a little hesitant right now with the markets and what's your strategy right this second with the way the market is? Well, here's what I know from doing this now for four decades. There is a thing called a 10 year cycle that happened every 10 year. The real estate market client and then it had a two year correction. Twenty twenty two is the hardest correction. Twenty three, we still go through correction, but it wasn't as hard as twenty three. And they say that we're going to carry this correction probably into somewhere in the first quarter, maybe even second half of twenty twenty four. And then the 10 year cycle is going to start again sometime in twenty twenty four. And when it does, it's going to ride another 10 year again, roughly. You have another two year correction again after that. It's been historically been like that for me. I notice every decade and I hear a lot of my. Really smart people, right? Talk about 10 year cycle. So I know based on historic history, repeat itself. The fans got to pull the throttle to raise the wings straight to slow down the machine a little bit, the train is inflation and in control. As soon as you get a little control, then the government is going to pull the throttle back to drop the interest rate to get the train moving again. Because I don't know when the real estate train does well, everybody does well. The company does well, the furniture store does well, the landscaping company does well. Everybody does well. The landscaping company does well, everybody do well off that, right? And so I know right now it's a buyer's market. Less than a seller's market. And right now I know that if I go buy a house right now, there's not too many competition on the house. I get a better price. I have time, Ricky, to actually even get an inspection. I got time to do feasibility. I got opportunity to more option, more leverage to actually get better terms. Close when I want to close, not when they need me to close. I got all that advantage right now, right? Yes. I'm going to get a better price now. Then it is when the interest rate was at 4%, when I have to pay 50, 70, 100 grand, depending on where you live, a million dollars over asking price. I did a calculation the other day. If you had a loan amount of $300,000, interest rates are seven and a half, your monthly payment. Right. The monthly payment was like 20, something like something like $2,100 or something like that. If someone wait, I'm going to wait till I get to four and a half that I'm going to buy. That's $600,000 out of four and a half, your monthly payment like $600,000. So the difference is like $600 different in monthly payment a month. You wait $7,200 a year or $14,000 roughly in two years. Here's what I know. When the interest rate get down to four and a half, you're going to pay more than $14,000 for a house or asking price. You're going to pay 50 grand. So you're actually saving more money now buying it and refining it two years from now. They're waiting two years now to buy because you got low interest rate. But you've got to compete again. Everybody's got to pay more for the price. No inspection. Buy as is. Call it when they want to. So for me, that's what I know. And I see it like that every decade. And so I'm buying it now, but I get a good deal. And I'm just going to refinance in the next two years. You think we'll get back to that crazy market? This is what all my people say. We won't get down into the threes or the low four. We'll probably be in the mid four and the high fours in 2025. Wow. And here's the thing. Even if it's at low five, Ricky, when I started real estate, shit, 12 percent, 13 percent, I take 6 percent all day. So back when you started and 90 or so, the median home price is probably somewhere around $25,000. Right? It was like, it was like, at the, you know, some area was like $70,000. $70,000. Like it was like 12 percent. And now, and now the median home price is like 400 in the country. Yeah, my median price is like about $600,000, $700,000 right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's local, of course. Nationally, it's like in the low fours or whatnot. So it's went from like $70,000 to $600,000 or whatever, right? But household incomes haven't really increased as big of a percentage, right? And going from like $70,000 to $650,000. OK, some might say, well, how, you know, I mean, it like 10 X, right? You know, and some people might say, OK, well, are those homes going to 10 X over the next 30 years or however long that's been? 40 years or, you know, or is that house going to be $6 million in 2050 or 2060, you know, because that's what it would have to do to kind of produce those same, you know, quantitative, you know, returns, like how much higher can it go? Does it have a lot to do with inflation? What like, give me your thoughts on the future appreciation of the market over the next couple of decades. Just your thoughts. I tell you my my thought on Seattle, that's steady Seattle very hard, OK? We in Seattle for being a big metropolitan area, all price relatively is still very inexpensive to compare to big cities. Now, when I say average price of $600,000, that's in a A minor neighborhood. When I start selling in the D plus C minus today, the same area, the $60,000, how it's probably worth it's probably selling for about 350. You know what I mean? OK, OK, this is the the more expensive area. But that's not even like the area. So in my opinion, what I've seen the last four decades in Seattle, we have about a 7% appreciation on average, I mean, every 10 year it doubles in value. So if history repeat itself and we continue to get a 7% appreciation, I mean, in the next 10 year at the end of the next 10 year cycle, let's call it 2034, that $600,000 how it could be worth $1.2 million. And I see it because here's the thing about Seattle, I can't speak for other city. Seattle, I mean, like a lot of my students in Seattle, they all work for like Amazon. They all work for, you know, like Amazon, Microsoft, you know what I mean? A lot of, you know, so many of my students, I got a student all across the United States, a student in Seattle. I mean, I see it because I get to meet them. Man, they make husband and wife together making half a meal in Seattle. So Seattle, to how to go from 600 to 1.2 million 10 years from now, you know what I mean? I think it's going to be doable. And I want to assume probably in Alabama where you at, it's probably going to do something similar because you guys live in price point. Yeah, it doubles about every 10 years, something like that. So yeah. Um, now, so yeah, I'm buying new construction homes right now. D or Horton homes, I'm buying a fleet of them. I bought five of them and they're, they're like, they're, they're in the low threes. What do you benefit? What's up? You, what do you get those out for? 2,500. That's good money. So, so that, so the D or Horton, where I go through their financing your item getting 5.9 on an investment loan. They're paying 5,000 and closing calls. It's a brand new home with no maintenance for years. The rent is great. It's in a beach area. I live on the beach in Alabama. So that's 10 minutes from the beach, um, you know, and so, uh, these are four bedroom houses, which is, you know, that's kind of what the market has went to pre post COVID. Um, but no, I think these houses are worth 610, 15 years. And, and, and you said a key word though, Ricky, you said it's near the beach. You and I know location is the game. It's the key factor of everything in real estate. If you like in Seattle, we got the water of the beach, the sound on one side. We'll get the mountain on the other side. We got Canada on top. We got Mexico the other end. We are being squeezed for land. You know what I mean? And when you say that, I can see when you're anything close to the beach, you're squeezed for land too. Yeah. And they're building a brand new Gulf Shores High School. That's going to be state of the art, brand new, literally right across the street from the subdivision. So I'm like, let me go right there and just park some money. Um, so when you look at rentals, right, you say you buy ugly homes. Okay. That's kind of what you focus on or whatever. Take me through that. You know, you see ugly house. Like, oh man, let me buy this thing. Nobody wants. See, this is why social media is such a funny thing. I just, somebody sent me another app yesterday. This guy said, bird strategy is dead. You know what I mean? Right. All I like to use the word bird because it's really a big name now. Right. Did you come up with that? Is that yours? I think, you know, value ad property been around. Right. Right. But as far as naming it bird. Coming in at bird. And you know, after a year, I made so many bird video that everybody know that's, you know, talks a lot about birds. So for me, we live in an expensive area. And when you live in an expensive area, you can't just go buy a home like you for 300,000 and get $2,500. You're going to stay in Seattle, a high end neighborhood. You have to do a lot of value ad by what I call moving condition home because it just $800,000 rents for a grand. That ain't going to work. Yeah. Too expensive. Too expensive. So what I do is in Seattle and now so many cities across the United States, they allow extra structure in their backyard. North Carolina does it. Atlanta just got to prove for that. Tampa just got to prove for that. Orlando, Arizona has got to prove for that. Las Vegas got to prove for that. Any big dense area, they need to create more housing. So for me, if I talk about just the basic bird, if I know a regular house in the neighborhood can sell for $800,000, my job is to go out there and find ugly houses in that same area. So I can actually add value to make the house as worth as much as the $800,000 house. So the strategy for me is that in my area, I have home with basement. And so where I can find the best deal is to find an ugly house that's two bedroom, one bath with an unfinished basement. Okay. So all I'm paying for is an ugly house, two bedroom, one bath. With the potential for more square footage in the basement, potential to make it look nice and make it worth more money. So typically I can buy a two bedroom, one bath, ugly houses for about $500, $550,000. Okay. To remodel the whole house like that, it will cost me about $125,000 inside out. What can be in it for, you know, $625,000 or $675,000 all in, but it's worth $800,000. My loan amount is going to be based off of $650,000 or $625,000, depending on when I leave in the deal. Now, of course, when the interest rate was lower, I can finance 100% of my all-in number and make a cash flow. Now interest rate is high. I have to leave my original 20% when I buy or purchase a rehab. I can lease out my 20% in there so that I can actually create the cash flow temporarily now until refinanced later. Got you. So basically that's how I do. I buy ugly house, I rehab it, I make it work as much as the $800,000 house, I have all this equity in it, right? The bank will always give me 70% of a praise value, $560,000, I'm all in for $560,000, I'm in good shape. But if $560,000, can I get with $4000 a month, even though cash flow? If it doesn't, then I'll leave a little bit of money like maybe bring it out to $500,000 to cash flow. Right. Please wait. Yeah. Now, that's Seattle. If I taught them about how to do that in Alabama, they can go at the price for a lot lower and get $2,500. You see what I mean? Right, right. All my students, if dependent on where they live, I tell them buy a turnkey or you can buy value add property. And I teach them how to do both. So the burst value isn't dead. You just got to get more creative. Most of the people out there, they buy stuff. They just buy everything with no money, sell or financing, and they buy it where there's no sweat equity in the deal. You got to get some equity. So the loan amount will be low. Yeah. So, and then you, so you, you basically get all your cash back. Right. So are you paying, are you, are you paying cash? I leave all my equity in the deal. But, but, but you take the cash that you put in it back out? I take my original down payment 20% back out. Yes. So, okay. Okay. So, so you're buying it for like five, 50 ish. You'll put 20% down on it and then you'll, and then you'll, and then you'll actually pad your pocket, the 125 to remodel it. Oh, hard money lender will just say 500,000 cause 125. They will say all over 625. I just put 20% of 625. Okay. So, okay. So you do it through a hard money lender. You get all the money you need to buy it and rehab it. With 20% down. You do the rehab, you get a new repraisal at 800. And then you refinance it and get that money back. I get, I refinance it. If I get your down payment money back, I said, yeah, I got to get at least 25% in marginal hire. Hmm. Right. The bank only financed 70% of LTV. I loaned a value of a new appraisal. And then you take that money that you got back, you've got your cash flowing property and then you go do it again. Do it again. And so people are, that's why I always tell people when I do the blur, you got to get 25% in margin so that they can finance 100% of your all-in number purchase and rehab. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right. And that way you can get your all your down payment back so you can do it again. What other people do that different is they don't get enough, they don't get 25% margin. They get 10 to 15 and then they refi and they're trying to get their down payment and any equity like all my property that's 25% or 30 or 40 people's equity, I leave all my equity in the deal. You just want your down payment back. I want my down payment back so I can repeat it. Yeah. That's it. And then people are saying it's dead because the market is softened and they don't feel like you can get those margins. But they, I think they think it's dead because initially it's so high you can't cash flow. Yeah. It won't cash flow, nothing cash flow. Everything cash flow, if depending on how low the loan amount is, right? Would you agree? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, if you pay cash, you're going to cash flow. If you borrow, if you borrow 10, 20% then you're going to cash flow. That's right. So the key is you want to actually be all in on your loan with 100% of your down payment back on a loan amount where the rent will cash flow. So do you ever run into a situation? The problem most bird people, they don't have a 25% plus in margin. They don't ever have it. Do you find that sometimes that you basically have to leave your down payment in there so cash flows? In today's time, if you don't get 25, you get 20%, let's say for example, or you get 25% in equity, but the price will happen to be a little higher. Oh, your loan amount, not a 500, but it's like 550. And you got to get it down to 500 to make it a cash flow, then suddenly even try to take it all 100,000 back. You leave 50 grand in, you get the other 50 back out. And do you refinance it with the hard money lender or do you switch over to a conventional at that point? Switch over to a conventional. Yeah, interesting. I have a portfolio bank that does all my deals. Yeah. And then how many of these deals do you find? Like how many ugly houses, how many deals are like that pop up for you? I do, I do, I do ugly houses and I do townhouses, that's my model, my three model, ugly house with ADU, rural houses and apartment building. And so in ugly houses with Dado right now, I have right now probably about 10 of those going right now. And then for townhouses, I have like when I do townhouses, one development site is eight townhouses on it. So I have like three of those sites going right now. And those were older townhome developments that you picked up. Oh, they're wrong. Oh, you're, you're developing them. And then I developed into eight brand new townhouses. Okay. I do new construction also. Yeah. And apartment building, I break it, I tear it down from scrap and I build brand new apartment buildings with scratch. Hmm. Yeah, that's a whole different game, huh? Because now you're building in there, you're, you're, you're gaining that equity of being on the construction side. I just finished doing a 31 unit apartment building out all in the 3.6 million, but it's worth 6.3 million right now. And you're just keeping it? Keep all of it. Yeah. See, that's, that's the way I like to do it. And, and look at this, I do it all myself. No investors. Hmm. Hmm. All myself. So all my investment property, I'm no investor. I do it all myself. So you don't, you don't bring in partners. You don't raise money. You don't do any of that stuff. You just, yeah. I know when I was younger, I used to do that, but when you get older, you know, when you're a realtor, you just don't, you want less headache. Hmm. You see what I mean? Yeah. When you're a realtor, at some point, I'm just tired of talking to a seller and negotiating price reduction. You know what I mean? You get tired of that, right? When you're young, you want to raise capital. You want to do all this stuff and you get older. You're like, I don't want to report to this. I don't want to report to the investor. I don't want to tell him bad news anymore. You know what I mean? Everything's good. Everybody's happy. When it's not good, you tell him all the bad news and then all that stress weigh on your shoulder day in, day out. So if you're smart, when you get to a certain point, you can go, you know, I don't need a thousand door. If I have 600 door, I'm happy. Okay. I'm going to have 500 door owner free owner by myself then 2000 door, the only, oh, I don't know 25% of it. And then it's 75% owned by investors. Yeah. So I, I've thought about raising money a couple of times and, uh, but I, I've got all my stuff on my own right now. You know, I don't do any like big stuff out of area. It's all local. I know the properties. I can drive to them. I can rent them. I manage them. I do all that stuff. Um, yeah. Like my thing is right now, I was thinking about it the other day. If I buy a property a month for the next five years, I'll have about a hundred properties because I've got about 40 right now. I have, I have a hundred properties, right? If they average a half a meal, that's 50 million. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then, and then if my, if my loans are set up where they're paid off in 15, 20 years, hell, that 50 million is now worth a hundred million worth of property that's owned free and clear. I'm like, in 20 years, I could be, I could have a hundred million free and clear. Look, let me say how syndication work. Typically syndication is that you're lucky to get 25% of the whole project. But typically most syndicated out that you'd have one or two or three partners. Let's call it two partners. Say you get 25%. Grant Cardone get 25%. He get the high side. He raise all the capital eight, nine thousand door. He get 25% of the portfolio. That makes sense. So let's say 25% is you and your partner. I mean, you really got 10% or 12%. If you have 14 doors that you own by yourself, it's equivalent to a hundred 40 door, 10% of 40 doors. Right, right, right. Difference. I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, I what you're managing a hundred 40 door. You're responsible. You underwrite it. You got to update the investor, update the bankers, picking all the liability, carrying all the stress for those hundred 40 door, but you're gonna get 10 to 12% of 140 when you're on 14 door, 100% by yourself before nobody. Hey, well, I love how I know that I used to do that. Yeah, I love I've researched all the syndicators. Right. I went deep on Grant. I went deep on all of them and just haven't pulled the trigger on doing it because the market kind of got a little wonky. Right. When I was thinking about doing it, I'm kind of letting the dust settle. But in the meantime, I've just been picking up properties on my own and I love it because I'm like, I own this. Like, this is all me, you know, people, people, people get sold on the height of number of doors, just like realtor. Oh, yeah, me and my team of 80, so to me, you know, a half of bean dollar, but you only took home. God damn three million, dude. Right, right. Now, I know, yeah, well, team leaders make make less. That's a lot of single agents, 100%, you know. So what's what's the future here? So you've got your investment, like portfolio, you're still doing real estate agent sales, right? Kind of on the side. You've also got education business, correct? Tell me a little bit about the education business. My whole focus on education is teaching people the mindset. Most importantly, the mindset, the, the mindset, the ideas and inspiration and the benefit of owning long term. I always say to people, I want to teach you how to have a long time, I want to teach you how to have long, long, long wealth versus a high paying job. So I don't want to teach you how to fix a flip. I can teach you how to do that. Can I do that already? I can teach you how to wholesale. Now that's how I have a whole bunch of students that come through at the wholesale, but they have the end goal in mind at long term. It's like, you know, realtor, right? You come in as a realtor, but I got you really thinking only rental. That makes sense. So my whole education is how to own rental, benefit, all the benefit, why own rental, all the pain, if you don't own rental, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's my whole education piece of it. So what, what got you into that? And how, how long have you been doing that? And how many students have you had? Yeah, good question. So I never thought about doing it as I was doing it just like you, one of my friends said, dude, help me own rental property. So I helped one friend that helped another friend and I've been doing that for a year behind all the social media stuff. I was helping so many friends on Seattle, buying rentals, buying rental, buying rental, right? And even clients buying rental. And then about five years ago, right? All of a sudden, you know, one of my friends says, my friend Stephanie proves to my partner today, she said, why don't you just let me just help you whatever you need in the back end. And then you just go and talk. All right. And I started it. And you know, when I first did it five years ago, it wasn't really a coaching business. It was more like, I'm going to go do a seminar. I'm going to talk about it now, like how it is today. And I did that for two years and we were just making decent money. It wasn't a lot, dude. And then all of a sudden, one of my other friend called, Hey, man, if you're going to do this, let me just teach you how to do it right. A funnel to everything. I'm like, okay, right? I was just going along with the ride, right? And so three years ago, when I really started it 2020 and launched it, you know, the right way. And and then so it's been three years now. So I'm done it now. So we have probably over 2000, 3000 students now. So and and and now it just I'll point now. It just with social media and what I do every day and the word of mouth is just like the avalanche. It's just an opportunity to keep rolling and rolling and rolling for me right now. Yeah, I know. The content was the content of what I do every day and what I share to my content, you know, to my content, everybody else content and I do it every day and I just share what I'm doing. You're documenting. I'm documenting and I'm making video on what I'm building, what I'm learning or the good, the bad, the ugly. You see what I mean? And that's different to everybody else out there. You know what I mean? You you strike me as a guy that probably doesn't even realize you have a million followers on Instagram. You know what, bro? I when I started this stuff, I was just doing it just to educate people, inspire and empower people. And next time I knew I look back, I got 100,000, 2000, 100,000 and all set of me and followers like, whoa, you know. And so now it's like whatever, you know what I mean? And my my inspiration today is really going to help a lot of people benefit only long term rental, just like what you know. Right, right. And from here, bro, OK, you got investing, you got real estate agent and you got the education. What's the future? Like, what's the goal? Like, what are you trying to do? Is there a point where you ride off into the sunset? What's what's the end game? Well, my kid Russell is a senior. My second kid Hudson's a sophomore. And so I always going to be working because I'm a creative person. But I want to do it in my time. It's like a realtor, you know what I mean? I listen when I want to take a listing, right? So in this business, I already have enough in my portfolio. But the first thing is I'm always going to be buying. But a lot of my portfolios are already paid off. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I always look at my portfolio, Ricky. And if I see good opportunity, I might look at some of my portfolio and go, you know what? Let me take some of these lower one that wasn't the best. I mean, they're all good stuff. But I always start the one on the bottom. I'm going to trade the 1031 for the better stuff today. OK. I'm going to always I'm going to always be looking at 1031 and just roll it into something better. And if there's an opportunity where I can't roll it, I'm just going to buy it. Because I'm too big money today. Right. I'm still always going to be buying. At the same time with all the money I'm making right now, I'm just paying down more of my loan. Because for me, I have a lot of property now. I don't want to be 80 years old, Ricky, being in the boardroom, tallying a banker. Can you extend the loan? You know what I mean? I don't want to gun to my head. I want peace of mind, peace of mind. I think people are underrated. You know what I mean? So my goal right now is to pay off a lot of my loan. When I get it all paid off, probably going to be $250,000, $300,000 a month in cash flow. You know what I mean? The my portfolio in the next 20 years is going to hit a billion dollar with the asset. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Right. It's like a million, millions of subscribers, or whatever. You know what I mean? I've been riding into the sunset. So I'm going to continue, I can't 31. I'm going to continue to buy. I'm doing that because it's fun for me. You know what I mean? Yeah. The education piece, I'm going with the flow right now. When I get tired, I might say, I might find another fact to do work with Stephanie. Stephanie, she's a mindset coach, a psychology coach. That's why she's part of the program. And she teach that stuff. And I teach a lot of the real estate stuff. And I got so many students coming out now that are so phenomenal that they are coaching other students from me right now. You know what I mean? So I see myself, I'm 53 now. I'm 53 now. I'll be 55 next two year. I mean, the way I'm going, I could have fun doing this even in my 60s. You know what I mean? But right now, I don't really have a, I want to hit X. I'm just enjoying myself now and just making a difference. A lot of people say, would say, hey, don't pay those properties off. You know, take out more equity. You know, if you're paying stuff off, take out more equity and buy more properties. Right? What do you say to those people? It depends on how old you are. If you're young, leverage. At some point when you get older, depending on how old you are, 50, 60, 70, 80, then why would you want to have 80, 900 million not dead? What would another 10 more property do for your life? Right. But what would 10 property paid off do for you if it's free and clear? So it all depends on your age. And no one ever talks about that. It depends on your age. It depends on your Pacific goal. It depends on your lifestyle. Some people, Ricky, is happy with it, five rent a property, free and clear, get five rent a month for life. They're wrong? No. Not everybody want to leverage leverage. Not everybody needs on the doors. Yeah. Right? But most Americans, this is what I found this out, Ricky. The average American, only 6% invested in real estate. The average American retired with $233,000 net worth. If you and I help them get two or three rent a property, in the next 10 years, they have more money than the average American. Right. So if they have, let's be honest, Ricky, if the average American have five grand in pass and even come from their rental, they've done way better than Social Security. I mean, I can almost live off that, honestly. I mean, everything that happens is pretty much paid off. Right? So people get this perception when they go to seminars and social media. Oh my god, John Doe got $1,000. I need $2,000. I need $1,000 again. Do you know why you even need $1,000? Is your lifestyle even that high? If you have 10 grand a month debt-free, you live so damn good, it's unbelievable. So leverage, it all depends on your goals, how old you are, what lifestyle you want to have. Yeah. I'm trying to figure out, I've got this situation personally. I'm buying this office building, right? And so I have this big office building. It's about 2,000 square feet, and it's where my office is. And I've got one assistant that works there, and none of the local agents I have go there or anything. So I'm like, it's just sitting there. I could be making four grand a month. It's paid off, paid cash for it. So I said, let me go buy this little smaller unit. It's 1,000 square foot. It's a nice little office in a strip center for $200. The building's worth $500. So I'm buying this little unit for $200. I'm going to move my Christie, my assistant, to the little building. And then I'm going to rent out the big building for like four grand, OK? And so my dilemma right now is I got money in the bank. I could pay cash for that $200,000 unit. But I also have that equity sitting in that big, big office. And I'm like, should I take out two or even 300 of that, put 200 towards this little office, and then have 100 cash as tax-free, of course, and take that 100 and maybe put it down on another property or something? Should I leverage that office? Or should I pay just cash for the little office? Own it all free and clear. Have that $4,000 a month just coming in with no mortgage. And so that's the dilemma I've got right now. What say you? Well, it all depends on the other thing, too. Ricky, another equation is how much income come into the front door. Plenty. OK, so like $200,000. So if we have a lot of money coming through the front door, we don't need the cash to buy another property. We can use our own cash to buy. See what I mean? Yeah. Right? So it depends on some income, right? So for you, if you got good cash coming in every month, $400,000 a month every month, I got active income still coming in, millions and all, every single month for me from all my business, right? Not the cash flow. Cash flow is different, you know what I mean? Yeah. But I got that money coming in every single month, then I just use that cash to buy something, at least something else. That's why I don't pull any of my equity out of my rentals. At least because I got cash coming through the front door every single month. Yeah, you just use that cash. I just use the cash. That way I can have debt-free, clear property. How old are you, bro? I'm 42. Yeah. So for you, Ricky, if you want to get to a hundred door or maybe it's not a hundred door, maybe it's a certain amount of passive income you want. It might be 75 doors, you know what I mean? And $100,000 a month in rent. So if you're there, hey, instead of paying it off, accumulate more. Posting that money, accumulate more. Get to the number of doors or the number of dollar or cash flow you want. Accumulate it. Leverage it. Accumulate it. You know what I mean? When you get to $100,000 a month in passive income in rent, you can go, now I can slow down a little bit. Let me just slow down. Let me slow down this accumulation train for a second. Let me just take some of the $400,000. Let me drop down on some of those properties and get them paid down. But that's what I get for all the years, right? I got a certain amount. I paid off a bunch of them. Then I went for another couple of hundred more doors and I paid off a bunch of them. So now I'm on a phone where I lie. My father's still not all free and clear. But I'm just going to let rent pay itself to tenant as I look up my better one and trade up if I wanted to. But now I'm 53. By the time I'm like 65 or gate, I don't really want to actually have any more debt, bro. I just want to just pay them off. Because right now I'm making peak money right now. You know what I mean? And at 65 years old, I want to be debt free, having 300 grand a monthly rent coming in every single month. And I'm coaching people. I'm trading up, trading here back and forth. You know, headache free, peace of mind. I want to do no brainer kind of work in my 60s. Because that's going to be the best time of my life. Travel and do thing. Who the hell want to have all the debt? So many young viewer now, they were chasing after success. And their definite success is really not as they think it is. Everybody got their own definite success. You know what I mean? That's the problem. Yeah. Now, you're absolutely right, man. And I appreciate you coming on. Where can people find all your stuff? Of course, Instagram. Go follow him on Instagram, number one. I'll put his link in the description. And I'll also put some links to your, to some of your education stuff down there. Where else can people find you? I think you can find me on Instagram, YouTube now. Now I'm doing a lot of YouTube now. I post like a video every single, every week now. Okay. So YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, that's it. Cool, cool. I'm going to link all those below your YouTube and stuff. And I didn't know you were on YouTube. Did you just start that? I started about, technically about three months ago. We're up to about $150,000 subscribers. So I want to hit that, that million. You know what I mean? Nice. You know what I mean, baby? We got, we got a lot of people, man. They got, we got a coach on telling them the benefit of owning a rental. I love your message, man. About investing. Yeah. You know, the thing about interesting, Ricky is wholesaler and flipper like a realtor. Right. This is a high-paying job. Yeah. You're just making money on transaction. And then that's it. We, I flipped about, well, well over a hundred homes with two other partners over the past like six years or so. We buy them on the core house steps. And I'm like, my God, if we would have kept the best 30 of those, how much wealthier we would be. But these guys really love flipping. And I'm like, and so we're doing one right now. And I've got to the point where I'm like, you know what? If I like one of them, I'm just going to buy the other two guys out and just keep it myself, you know? Yeah. That's it. The thing about, that's what I mean by, sometimes we got to actually pull back a little bit of the lifestyle so you can keep it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Bro, thank you so much for spending so much time with us today, brother. Appreciate you. I appreciate it, bro. And I look forward on sharing this with you when you post it. Yep, yep. I'll send it to you and everything. You take care, man. We'll talk to you soon. All right, peace out. See you, bro.