 Good afternoon, my name is Jason Lem and I'm here with my colleague Claudia Deema. We both work for West Sussex County Council as part of the Community Safety and Well-Being Team. I'd like to take this opportunity to extend your warm welcome and thank you for taking the time to listen to our recording. Scams and frauds are on the rise and courier and impersonator fraud is currently the largest fraud in West Sussex today and also the largest fraud in the UK. We hope that by listening to this recording over the next 40 minutes you'll take some valuable information that will help you not only safeguard and protect yourselves, but protect your loved ones, friends and family members. Thank you for listening. So what is a scam? A scam is an illegal trick usually with the purpose of getting money from people and a scam is a type of fraud. And as time has gone on we are aware that scams are becoming much more sophisticated. Scammers are becoming much better at what they do. And what it is with courier fraud it is with somebody tricks people into being somebody that they're not. So they pretend to be either some kind of imposter or somebody from a really good background or from a well-known organisation and they would juke an individual out of large sums of money. From research that we have done we know that the average scam victim is aged over 75 years. Over half of people aged 65 plus have been targeted by some kind of scam during their lives. Scams cost the UK economy 5 to 10 billion every year. 75 plus years it creates the 56% of our scam victims. It drops to 26% aged 60 to 74 and then drops again for people aged 30 to 59 to 14%. And then our lowest category are the under 29s but 4%. Thank you Claudia. There's some real shocking statistics. Scams are definitely on the rise and let's put that into context. I'm going to give you a statistic. Scams and frauds in their various guises account for almost 50% of reports to the police in the UK every year. That's an extraordinary amount. Traditionally, if criminals wanted to take our hard-earned cash, if they wanted to steal our jewellery, our money, our financial well, well-being, they might wait till the hours of darkness, wait till we were in bed or at work, they might put a pair of tights on their head, they might sneak in through a top window. The thing is if they do that the traditional criminal risks leaving fingerprints, fibres from their clothes, they risk being caught on CCTV by a neighbour, they risk being caught. Our modern-day fraudster, our modern-day scammer, they are not going to get caught as easily. They are simply in the case of courier and impersonator fraud picking up the phone, asking us for our money and we are giving it to them. One of my previous roles up to very recently was working in Sussex Police for 16 years and I'm going to make reference to that as we talk during this webinar. 16 years ago when I joined in January 2007, in my first year of working in Sussex Police from January 2007 till December, I dealt with just two reports of scam and fraud in that entire year. In my last working week, my last full week in Sussex Police earlier this year in January, I dealt with five. Scams and frauds are on the rise and it's a shocking statistic. I'm going to reiterate some of those stats which Claudia made. In Sussex alone, there has been in the last quarter going to December the last three months an amount of 4.67 million lost to scams and frauds as a whole. West Sussex takes the highest portion of those at 2.28 million. Career fraud, which we're going to talk about today, accounts for £277,790 of that amount in the last three months and that's why we're talking to you about this important subject today. It's important to say that career fraud and impersonator fraud is now our number one fraud in West Sussex and that trend is the same nationally. In West Sussex, certainly for the last three months, for the last quarter to December, that accounted for 27.4% of all of our fraud calls. The biggest one recently in 2020 and 2021 was dating and romance frauds and that accounts now for just 11% has been overtaken by career and impersonator fraud. Let's have a quick look at some of our demographics. You can see here that 75% of the victims for career and impersonator fraud are aged 75 and above. If we have a look at some of the other age demographics that are affected by career fraud alone, if we just jump down to the 60 to 74 year bracket, we can see that that number drops drastically down to 17%. Under 29, just 1%, this is a crime. This is a fraud type that affects our most elderly in our communities. Have a look at this slide as well. You can see that disproportionately career and impersonator fraud affects females and you can see that 64% of females are affected versus 36% of males. We've looked into this and this isn't a consistent trend because this goes up and down from year on year out. The most important statistic you'll see at the bottom of this slide is that actually 63% of these people live alone and that's really important because career fraudsters who are picking up the phone do not want us to talk to anybody else. They don't want us to apply the brakes. They do not want us to apply any sensibility to this. They want us to fall for their scams and frauds and they want our cash. The first picture that you'll see on the left, I thought it was really the tax man, an impersonator fraud. The gentleman there, a very young chap, my age, 21, he fell for £10,000. The scam at the time, which he wasn't expecting on the phone call, was relevant to him at the time. He had just completed his tax return and so when the scammers and fraudsters called and they said, well, hello, sir, we're calling from the HMRC and you need to pay an amount of £10,000 or risk being arrested today, he naturally paid it because it was relevant to him at the time. Another picture to the right, another article. This lady here, a doctor, an associate lecturer at London University, a music teacher, a very clever young lady, but because again, she completed her tax return only recently, she actually describes in the rest of the article, which you can't see here, a six hour ordeal where she spoke to the scammers transferring money and more money and more money as it went on. It can affect us all. We have to be really careful. And so we come to Courier Fraud. Fraud here very kindly said that we're going to give some real life examples of this and we will talk about some of the variations of Courier Fraud, but I would like to give you one of the most popular stories, which I heard victims tell me consistently last year when I went to visit so many of them. Courier Fraudsters will call and say that either one of two things, they will say they are from your bank's fraud department or they will say they are from the police, which is quite sinister. A scammer of fraud is meant to put you on the back foot and it's designed to make you make one of a quick decision to part with your cash and Courier Fraud is no difference when somebody calls and says they're from the police, it will put you on the back foot. Most of us, within reason, will want to help the police. And I give the analogy of when I go to a get-together, a family get-together and I maybe haven't seen relatives for 15, 20 years and you'll shake a cousin's hand and of course the conversation will invariably turn to what you do for a living. When I used to tell them I work for the police, they would recoil and it's the same when a Courier Fraud victim, an elderly Courier Fraud victim who lives alone picks up that call and they'll hear, Sir, Madam, Hello, we're calling from, in this case, Hammersmith or Scotland Yard Police Station from the fraud department, they will never be nearby and they will say there's nothing to worry about but you need to help us. I'm going to refer to a gentleman I dealt with last year and this poor gentleman who was in his 90s, a lovely chap and I spent a fantastic amount of time with him afterwards, he had had this phone call, he wasn't expecting it, it was unsolicited, he wasn't expecting a call from the police and they said just what I've said, Sir, nothing to worry about. However, we have somebody in custody and this person has been using a cloned version of your cards and we know this because we've interviewed them and under interviewed they've told us that your bank branch, your bank branch, your local one, has been supplying your details to them fraudulently and as such, we're conducting an investigation that we want you to help with. They will add a real rush tactic to this, they want you to go and draw out your money quickly, not only to aid with their investigation but they will tell you that your money will be at risk of being lost unless you do so. It's at this point that this gentleman I spoke to, he told me that actually the scammers and fraudsters knew exactly what bank account he actually used in Chichester, used to in fact, but actually when we unpacked this he remembered that actually they had said we're looking at a bank account in Santander to which he very quickly said well you've got that wrong Sir, I bank with Santander, I bank with Barclays and Lloyds and they said no, you're absolutely right, that's exactly who we're looking into and you can help us today. The chap who lived just outside of Chichester arranged a taxi because he no longer drove, he went to his bank. Now we're very lucky in the UK because our Ops signature colleagues in Sussex Police have designed something called the Banking Protocol which if somebody goes to a bank, especially somebody who's elderly and will ask for a strange or dubious or unusually high amount of money then the bank will rightly say and ask all these questions as to why you're withdrawing that. If you can't give a credible answer then actually the bank will very kindly make you a nice cup of tea, put you in a very comfy room with a plate of custard creams, and they will call the police so as we can unpick it for you and certainly so as we can reduce that risk and apply that sensibility that I talked about earlier. Now our scammers and fraudsters they know about this and they will give you a cover story. The majority of them will be on the phone when you go to the bank, the classic one before Christmas is always I'm drawing out money for loved ones and presents to give. The other classic cover story that I often heard was tell the bank you're drawing out drawing out this large sum of money to pay the final payment for your builders and if the victim, if the elderly person can give a credible reason as to why that money should be withdrawn the bank will let them take it. They're lying to the bank because they've been told by the scammers not to tell anybody. When the money gets home the bank will the fraudsters will naturally congratulate that person on helping them with their investigation. They will naturally say you know thank you very much you've been a great aid to us but before you go sir or madam I'm just going to get you to read one or two of the serial numbers out from these bank notes that you've withdrawn. It's worth saying on average the average courier for a victim will draw out four thousand pounds although that amount can be much higher and much lower. When the old gentleman that I was mentioning a lovely 90 year old read out about three or four of his serial numbers from his bank notes he was very quickly told by the fraudsters that all of these notes were were basically counterfeit and fake. The poor gentleman felt like his world was crumbling down around him. The fraudsters very quickly told him that because he had been so incredibly helpful so helpful with their investigation they would refund all of the money. However in order to do this he would have to get the money to Scott and Yard by 2 p.m. this afternoon. The gentleman was quick to point out that if he had have driven and he hadn't in almost 20 years he wouldn't even know how to get there and certainly wouldn't do so in time. The fraudsters very kindly then said don't worry sir we'll arrange a courier which is why it's called courier fraud. There are variations on this whether sometimes they will ask for your bank cards but only after they verified your pin details because they're helping you out by taking away your fraudulent bank cards but we have to be so careful. More often than not the taxi or courier driver that collects these will not know what they're collecting because the victim is often given a cover story they're directed on how to package up the money they're often given a password sometimes they're even instructed to take some money out to give to the taxi driver and the money will go from taxi to taxi to taxi till eventually it falls into the hands of the criminals. Sometimes organized crime groups will travel down by trains to victims addresses jump in a taxi and the taxi will wait outside whilst the criminal actually goes and speaks to the victim and takes the money. It's really sinister and shocking that it's our biggest fraud in not only West Sussex but in the UK today and I think Claudia you're going to speak a bit more about some of the variations of this aren't you? Yes I am I'm going to be talking about impersonation fraud via the telephone when we get those calls that come through to us you know really inappropriate times and we'll be looking at sort of different variations with regards to those kind of calls. And before we do that we're just going to very quickly watch a video now this is a video of an 89-year-old lady a fantastic lady unfortunately she was a victim of a career fraud we're just going to play this quickly we're not going to play the whole video but it really demonstrates some of the impact this has on some of our some of our poor victims. Phone rang around about between nine and ten past nine and the phone is over in the corner so I just got up and picked the phone up and a man's voice said this is a police and he said we have apprehended two men who have been using your bank card and the first thing I said well how can they because the card is here and my handbag was near me so I picked my purse out of a handbag I said I've got the card in my hand now have they done that all he told me to do there was I best ring the bank to let them know that somebody been using my card I switched him off and phoned the bank and a female cheery voice to hello I'm Samantha can I help you and I told her what happened and she said well you'll have to give me the numbers on your bank card front and back I gave them back and she said why that that is now closed the man who said he was a police officer he was on the phone to me and never come to think of it he must have been on the phone all the time although I switched him off he didn't rule down the number again it was just he came on to the phone he said well I would like you to do if you can put your two cards in an envelope and seal it then said um think of a password I said I can't leave a part oh oh what's up doc that's the first thing I can think of he said right and in about 10 minutes quarter of an hour's time there will be somebody will come and knock on your door and they will give you the password then the chap he knocked on the door he was standing back from the door and he just said what's up doc so I assumed that was the chap he that the police were sent so I gave in the envelope 300 town was taken from the bank well I've always been conscious about keeping my cards close to me but it just makes me feel that I was an idiot to let him get away with it if it happens to anybody and they are a little bit suspicious put the phone down ring the police and I wish I'd done it in the first place so as you can see on that video you know we have a really elderly victim again falling you know sadly victim to this kind of scam and you know she mentions like I did earlier sort of about the inconvenient time of that phone call between some nine and ten past nine in the evening and that's when you know these scammers really do tend to make those calls you know really inappropriate times sort of around tea time you know when we're busy doing other things or when we're setting down for the evening and we're not expecting those kind of calls so like Jason made reference to you know when we do get that you know call from somebody pretending to be from you know a very high-profile organisation such as a bank or such as the police it really does put us on the back foot it panics us and you know it makes us think that that call is legitimate but you know these pranks to call us are very good at what they do they're very skilled at what they do and they use a lot of what we call social engineering skills to fire very quick questions at you in order to get that information out of you such as personal information or financial information such as your passwords your pin numbers all that kind of information that they will use to then exploit or sell on in order to get that you know get your money from you in some way but what we do need to be mindful of is that kind of information is just that it is personal information and under no circumstances will a bank or a police ask you for your pin numbers or your personal or financial information and under no circumstances should you be giving out that information but you know what these callers you know what they're trying to get is to you know gain your trust catch you off guard and to make financial profit out of you by taking your money and like I said you know they will phone a really inappropriate number opportunities they will pretend to be different organizations for example they might pretend to be from sort of companies such as Microsoft or Apple and these type of callers will then you know say you have a problem with your laptop or your device and their aim will be to try and take control of your devices through obtaining your passwords and then once they've got into your device obviously they can take complete control of it they might pretend to be like from what Jason has already said from the you know your bank or your other police which really does take you know our victims off guard that is sort of quite a panic call and that's when you know people will give out a lot of information about themselves because they you know they believe that is a trusted organization but what we have noticed with these type of calls you know like I said that we use a lot of social engineering questions they will fire questions at you very very quickly what they will be reluctant to do is answer any of your questions so if you do get this type of call it will say hello this is your bank calling and if you were to ask what bank is this they will then fire another question at you because they won't know what bank you're actually banking with but because they keep firing questions at you you will be you know wanting to answer those questions so they will actually get more and more information out of you they will also demand that you act quickly which is another red flag and it's something to look out for they try and panic you know the victim into making a decision very very quickly they use you know your fear you know your emotions of you know being taken off guard in order to make you make a quick decision into transferring money or giving out your details but what you do need to remember like I said no bank or you know the police are ever going to ask for that kind of information so under no circumstances should you ever give that information out over the telephone and you should never ever transfer money to anybody that asks you to give out your bank details we're now just going to show another short video and this is called the Archie Hicks videos and it just gives an example of one of these impersonator calls. Good morning can I speak to Archie Hicks please? Yes speaking. Good morning Mr Hicks my name's Simone Johnson and I'm calling from the National Bank Payment Verification team. Okay. We automatically receive alerts about unusual transactions and I'm just calling to ask if you've authorised three new direct debit mandates to be set up on your account in the last week. What payments? We have three new instructions which have been flagged up each for £900 which make a total alert value of £2,700. Have you authorised these payments to be created with your debit card? I don't get it. Are they direct debit payments or card payments? Mr Hicks as I've said we systematically receive alerts for unusual transactions there are three payments each for £900 and if you didn't authorise them it's essential that we move quickly to cancel them to prevent the funds leaving your account. No I definitely have not authorised three payments for £900. In that case then Mr Hicks as I said we need to act now to cancel the payments. First of all though I need to verify who you are so I'll take you through some security questions and we can get the payments urgently cancelled for you. Sorry where did you say you were calling from again? Does your phone have caller ID Mr Hicks? Yes. Good so you can see that I'm calling from National Bank. Now please can you confirm your four digit pin to me please? Yes bear with me first five then four six one. Banks never ask for confidential banking information. Does your business know this? Don't let your business be a victim of social engineering. Visit getsafeonline.org for more information. So there's a classic example of you know that standard impersonation call and as you probably noticed like I said you know they use those quick social engineering skills to fire as many questions as they can to you know panic you and catch your guard into giving out that information and you know it really worked in that case of Archie Hicks. You know he asked a number of times where she was calling from and she'd just fire another question at him and then in the end she used the classic have you got caller ID because again what these scammers can do they have the technology to do what we call call spoofing where they can actually make you know somebody within your caller ID or a name of whoever is calling appear when they actually do ring you and that's another way of how they make the call look more legitimate and also you know there was that whole sense of urgency within that call as well you know if you don't take action now we need to stop these payments being processed so they are the classic red flags to look out for from this type of call. So what can you do and what tips do we give? You need to ask the questions of how do you know who is actually calling you you know it's very easy for scammers to either hide behind a screen a computer screen you know anyone can pretend to be absolutely anyone and it's the same with the telephone you know scammers also have the technology to disguise their voices to make it sound like they're calling from a call centre so you might hear phones ringing in the background or the tapping of keyboards for example. We need to be you know are they asking for my personal information and why are they doing that because that is personal information for me and I should not be being asked for this over the telephone and does my bank or might you know the police normally call me at obscure times of the evening and are they trying to pressure me into making a quick decision? Did they actually name the bank they are calling from? Have I asked what bank they're calling from and if I have have they actually answered me and also another red flag is a lot of time scammers will ask you to keep it a secret because they don't want their investigation compromised at all. So these are all things to look out for so that you don't fall a victim to this horrible type of crime. So further tips please avoid sharing personal information over the telephone or even over the internet you know we wouldn't walk up to a stranger give them our name, address, our pin numbers and hand over our credit cards for some reason we're very trusting when it comes to the online world or via the telephone we have no proof of who we're talking to in these cases and like I said nobody will ask for that personal or financial information in that way never ever disclose your pin numbers never give them away to anybody on the telephone never give your bank card to somebody that turns up on your doorstep again all this is personal to you and nobody should ever be in possession of that card apart from yourself. Do not transfer or do money upon instruction of a caller direct bank transfer is the biggest way of being scammed don't you know being asked to transfer money into somebody else's bank account is another big red flag. So remember genuine computer firms or banks or police don't make unsolicited calls at strange times so say no to cold callers like the lady said in the video you know she wished she'd just hung up and not got involved in that conversation at all and it's really important that you know if you do don't get these type of calls not to engage in conversation because if you do they're likely to try again so just say no and hang up you can contact your bank directly using a known phone number of 159 this is a fairly new thing that has been brought out which will direct you to your bank's fraud service and they can actually check out for you whether the call is legitimate or not so leave at least five minutes because like the lady said again on that video she ended up speaking to the scammer again so you need to leave at least five minutes then dial 159 if you can use another telephone please do that it makes it even safer so you don't end up still talking to the scammer. Dial 159 and like I said they will check out whether the call is legitimate or not but to be honest it's likely to be a scam. And onto some scam prevention advice. Thank you Claudia you can see on screen there's an image of a cool screening device known as Truecall. This is a fantastic piece of kit which West Sussex County Council trading standards and Sussex police will often install at the home addresses of victims of courier fraud to stop further calls from the fraudsters getting through. We have to remember that if a vulnerable victim has given away personal details information of debit or credit cards then they will often go on to what is known as a suckers list. These suckers list contain details of those most likely to give away personal details or money to the scammers and when the scammers have finished with one particular victim these lists are simply sold on to the next organized crime group or scam gang. Truecall devices will stop these calls coming through in the first place and reduce the risk to these victims. Have a watch this video which will explain how these are used. It's a really good video. Bill has Truecall on his phone line so all the calls he receives are checked before his phone rings. Sarah calls Bill. Her phone number is on Bill's star list so Truecall allows it to ring Bill's phone and when Bill picks up he's connected directly to Sarah. Oscar works in a call center that's been pestering Bill so his phone number is on Bill's block list. When Oscar calls Truecall intercepts and says we're not interested in your call please hang up and don't call us again. A call arrives. Truecall doesn't know who it's from because the phone number isn't on Bill's block or star list or their number is withheld so Truecall answers the call. Hi you're through to Bill. I don't accept other marketing calls but if you're a friend, family member or an invited caller please say your name after the tone then press hash. Silent calls or recorded message calls can't get through and call center agents will very rarely say their name. They know that Bill won't be interested in their pitch about double glazing. He'll just be annoyed at them for ignoring his wishes. Call center agents have commissioned to earn. If they're intercepted it is in their best interests to hang up and move on to the next call. In fact it's Bill's friend Gary. Hi it's Gary. Gary is put on hold while Bill's phone rings. You have a call from. Hi it's Gary. Press one to accept the call, hash to block the caller or hang up to ask them to leave a message. Press star to accept the call and star the caller. Bill presses star and is connected to Gary. Gary's number is put onto Bill's star list so he will get straight through next time he calls. In trials carried out by trading standards true calls stopped over 95% of unwanted calls. A fantastic way of protecting some of our most vulnerable victims. As I said this really is used for repeat victims that are being scammed day in day out week after week. We can protect ourselves we don't have to have the Rolls Royce of call screening and I recommend for everybody anyone who wants to. We can all approach our landline phone provider and you can look at call screening devices. My dear mother sorry mum to mention you will does in fact have a call screen device. All phone providers will do them. Sky has sky shield, BT has BT call guardian and so on and so on. Scammers and fraudsters do not want to leave messages. So if I were to call my dear mum I wouldn't get straight through to her. I would have a message saying that if you're a scammer or a fraudster please hang up or if you don't want to call please hang up and I'd be given the option of saying hello mum it's your son Jason. My mum would then get that phone call she would get my message saying hello it's your son Jason and she would be given the opportunity whether to connect me through or not. It will stop scam and fraud calls. Although not scams and frauds it will also stop cold callers from sales centres as well which is really good as well and especially if we take into account a victim of scams and frauds that is being contacted consistently again and again and again actually we want to reduce that number of calls anyway. Call centres will use a piece of software on their on their computers and they will have a list that they need to dial through. They do not want to spend time leaving messages. If ever we have a call from a cold call centre or calls or anything similar then actually you'll often hear that small pause between 5 and 10 seconds and sometimes you'll even hear a muffled click. All this is this is the piece of software determining whether or not you are something similar to this or whether you're about to speak to a human being. If it's the first then the software will simply click past and go to the next number because call centres do not want to waste time but these are all things that we consider and they're all really helpful. So what can we do to report fraud? As you can see we can report to action fraud and sadly many scams still go unreported. So even the statistics that we've mentioned are fairly high and are getting higher on a yearly basis. We may raise more awareness asking people to report these kind of frauds. So please report to action fraud. They have a number there on the screen that you can see or you can actually report by a reporting button on their website. Scam elliptics you can also report as well and they also help victims with regards to ongoing fraud. In non-emergency cases you can also report to 101 and Sussex Police Operation Signature their work focuses on the protection of vulnerable members of our community. They prevent them from becoming victims of such frauds that we've mentioned today and if a vulnerable person has been a victim of fraud you can report this to Sussex Police via the 101 number and the operation signature team should work with and support that individual with their ongoing help. You can also call 159 if you do suspect a scam. So if you get one of those impersonation calls come through and you see those red flags or hear those red flags please wait five minutes and dial 159. We also have many many types of different text scams come through and I'm sure you're all familiar with these that hit your you know your main sort of messaging device on your phones. There are many many different types again posing to be well-known companies. We see lots for example from Amazon we see them from NHS or Royal Mail as you can see examples of on the screen but they all tend to have the same kind of things to look out for. So for example as you can see on the screen here there is always a sense of urgency so the same things that we've mentioned before they will ask you to do something very very quickly because otherwise it might compromise your account or you'll be fined in some way. Again that is just a way to panic you in order for you to click on the link that is within that text message and as you can see there is a link or they want you to open some kind of attachment. By doing that what that will do is then either put malware onto your device so they can then hack into your systems or it will transfer you to a fake website where it will then prompt you to put in personal or financial information. So we always ask if you receive unsolicited or unsuspected text messages or emails asking you to act quickly or click or open a link please don't because it's likely to be a scam. And to report text scam you can also do this very easily via a free service you can report it to 7726 just forward that text scam straight onto 7726 and again they will do the work in trying to stop these scams coming through our networks. And here's an example of the standard fake email that we get coming through so these email phishing scams that we see hit our inbox and over four billion phishing emails are sent out every day and they tend to come from overseas cybercrime groups so not necessarily just individuals sitting at home and sending these out these come out from huge organizations and sent out in their masses so there are things that we can look out for and there's the standard things of poor English and grammar for example like I said these do come for overseas so English isn't necessarily their first language and sometimes you know the spelling and grammar can be very poor sometimes they can be also addressed to Sir, Dear Madam or Dear Customer however like I said these scammers are becoming more sophisticated at what they do and they now have the ability to actually address these emails to you directly and that's through personal information that we post about ourselves online so please please be wary of the type of information that you give out about yourselves through social media or through any other things that you do online but the things to look out for that never ever change again there will be a sense of urgency so asking you to act quickly and also clicking on a link or opening an attachment within that email and those are the two things that have never never changed over the number of years that these horrible scam emails have been you know being sent out so please please look for those within these scam emails and if you do get that just don't open the emails at all if you do receive such an email you can report them to report at phishing.gov.co.uk but what do you do if you become a victim of fraud we need to be able to spot these scams and hopefully through this you know this presentation that Jason and myself have given you today you have some examples of the type of things to look out for and those red flags that might just raise those alarm bells for you so be able to spot it you know look out for these signals look out those social engineering skills ask questions take time slow down and don't be panicked into making quick decisions because that will help stop this but most importantly if you do become a victim it's really important that you report it to those organizations that we mentioned in the previous slides so some useful resources that you might want to have a look at in your own time if you do want to know more about any type of scams at all sit as an advice have a fantastic website with lots and lots of information with regards to all different types of scams they also have you know helplines on their website and signposts to some other useful websites that can provide that support for you. We've already mentioned action fraud and they're the reporting process that we need to be reporting you know online or telephone fraud too. Victim support help with the support provided to our victims of fraud and provide that ongoing help and support and emotional support that they may need. Age UK again on their website have lots and lots of information with regards to all different types of scams and just to test yourself after this presentation please do the take five our new scams savvy quiz test yourself test your knowledge to see whether you've learned anything today with regards to whether you can spot scams. Thank you for listening that brings us to the end of our career fraud input you'll see on the screen at the moment there is a link to our Staying Safe online website with options to sign up to our newsletters or follow us on Facebook or Twitter. Career fraud affects so many of us either directly or indirectly if you see a friend a family member or a loved one talking about any of these signs that we've discussed today talk to them keep them safe and above all keep each other safe thank you for listening